Our FAs and off season's concerns?

[Bub]

Who are our own FAs this off season? I know Taush is...and i know Jennings is going into his final year. Do we have anyone else to worry about? What's our cap # look like?

[Noodle]

The Packer UFAs for 2009 are Tausch, DE Mike Montgomery, and DT Colin Cole. Not a one of 'em a bank breaker, if we decide to keep 'em.

We are in great shape for the 2009 cap. Arod's deal got worked so that he counted about 12.9 mil against the 2008 cap, but will count only around 9.7 mil in 2009.

The 2008 cap was 116 mil, and the 2009 cap is estimated to be at least 123 mil. At the end of the year this year, we were around 7 million under the cap (we were 20 million under, but the ARod deal and the firing of KGB took out around 13 mil, which we could afford).

Based on very rough estimates, I'm guessing we'll be around 16-20 million below the 2009 cap before any new deals (our UFAs, rookies, new UFAs, new contracts) are signed.

Anyone have a better estimate?

[Packnut]

The only worry we should have right now is Mr Jennings. It would be INSANE to let this guy go into his FA year. Jennings is Teddy's only reason for living at this point draft wise. Just as Harrell will go down as one of the top 5 dumbest draft picks ever in Packer history, Jennings will go down as one of the top 5 smartest.

I understand Teddy's nature is to be cheap, but Jennings is the kind of player you BUILD AN OFFENSE AROUND ( providing you have a HC that is smart enough to realize it). Just give this guy top 5 WR money RIGHT FREAKIN NOW!

[Gunakor]

The only worry we should have right now is Mr Jennings. It would be INSANE to let this guy go into his FA year. Jennings is Teddy's only reason for living at this point draft wise. Just as Harrell will go down as one of the top 5 dumbest draft picks ever in Packer history, Jennings will go down as one of the top 5 smartest.

I understand Teddy's nature is to be cheap, but Jennings is the kind of player you BUILD AN OFFENSE AROUND ( providing you have a HC that is smart enough to realize it). Just give this guy top 5 WR money RIGHT FREAKIN NOW!

The guy who has been throwing Jennings the ball this year is just as big a reason for TT's living as Jennings himself, draft wise. Imagine both Rodgers AND Jennings being 2 of the top 5 draft picks in recent franchise history. 4000+ yards and a 2:1 TD to INT ratio in his first season as a starter would suggest that's closer to fact than fiction.

Besides, TT paid 13 million dollars to Rodgers this year. He's extended Driver, Harris, and Barnett with very reasonable contracts. He made Charles Woodson a very rich man a couple of years ago too. He's not cheap, he's responsible. Unless your idea of cheap is simply refusal to overpay. By that definition, he's the cheapest man alive.

I don't see Jennings going anywhere for the next 5-8 seasons at the very least. He's a Packer.

[bobblehead]

The only worry we should have right now is Mr Jennings. It would be INSANE to let this guy go into his FA year. Jennings is Teddy's only reason for living at this point draft wise.

Yea, he should just fricking die for drafting that Rodgers guy. Collins blows too.

I like Jennings but lets see if he can have more than ONE 1k season and an 80 catch season at that before we break the bank on him....I know, foolish talk, just like I got all crazy about not letting Grant break the bank.

[sharpe1027]

Just as Harrell will go down as one of the top 5 dumbest draft picks ever in Packer history


Arguably worse picks:

T- Buck
J. Bidwell
A. Carroll
J. Reynolds
A. Edwards
D. Thompson
T. Mandrich
R. Cambell
B. Clark
R. Duncan
J. Michels



I understand Teddy's nature is to be cheap

Off the top of my head:

Rodgers = big new contract
Driver = big new contract
Barnett = big new contract
Kampman = big new contract
Grant = big (incentive-wise) new contract
Harris = big new contract

[Gunakor]

Arguably worse picks:

T- Buck
J. Bidwell
A. Carroll
J. Reynolds
A. Edwards
D. Thompson
T. Mandrich
R. Cambell
B. Clark
R. Duncan
J. Michels



Did you leave BJ Sander off your "worst" list on purpose? :lol:

[Lurker64]

Arguably worse picks:

T- Buck
J. Bidwell
A. Carroll
J. Reynolds
A. Edwards
D. Thompson
T. Mandrich
R. Cambell
B. Clark
R. Duncan
J. Michels



Did you leave BJ Sander off your "worst" list on purpose? :lol:

I think we're talking about "worst first round picks."

[sharpe1027]

Arguably worse picks:

T- Buck
B. Sander
A. Carroll
J. Reynolds
A. Edwards
D. Thompson
T. Mandrich
R. Cambell
B. Clark
R. Duncan
J. Michels



Did you leave BJ Sander off your "worst" list on purpose? :lol:

I meant Sander instead of Bidwell. :oops: Other than that, I stayed with first rounders.

[Gunakor]

Arguably worse picks:

T- Buck
J. Bidwell
A. Carroll
J. Reynolds
A. Edwards
D. Thompson
T. Mandrich
R. Cambell
B. Clark
R. Duncan
J. Michels



Did you leave BJ Sander off your "worst" list on purpose? :lol:

I think we're talking about "worst first round picks."

Packnut started this argument by suggesting that Greg Jennings is TT's only reason for living draft wise, and he was drafted in round 2. Used Jennings in the top 5 vs. bottom 5 picks argument. So I had assumed that the subsequent comparisons between his other draft picks and the biggest draft failures in franchise history included more than just the first rounders.

[Bub]

Looks like we're looking at Berrian type numbers for Jennings. I think I could live with that. He's got a six-year, $42-million contract with $16 million in guaranteed money.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/packers.html

I don't know....15-20 mil doesn't sound like too much with a chunk of that going to our draft picks and maybe a sizable chunk going to Taush, and that's not to mention any extension we give to our expiring contracts next year.

[cheesner]

error

[Lurker64]

Arguably worse picks:

T- Buck
J. Bidwell
A. Carroll
J. Reynolds
A. Edwards
D. Thompson
T. Mandrich
R. Cambell
B. Clark
R. Duncan
J. Michels



Did you leave BJ Sander off your "worst" list on purpose? :lol:

I think we're talking about "worst first round picks."

Packnut started this argument by suggesting that Greg Jennings is TT's only reason for living draft wise, and he was drafted in round 2. Used Jennings in the top 5 vs. bottom 5 picks argument. So I had assumed that the subsequent comparisons between his other draft picks and the biggest draft failures in franchise history included more than just the first rounders.

Unless I read incorrectly, the list was in response to the claim that "Harrell will go down as one of the top 5 dumbest draft picks ever in Packer history", when in fact he will be "lucky" to make the top 10.

[cheesner]

Just as Harrell will go down as one of the top 5 dumbest draft picks ever in Packer history


Arguably worse picks:

T- Buck
J. Bidwell
A. Carroll
J. Reynolds
A. Edwards
D. Thompson
T. Mandrich
R. Cambell
B. Clark
R. Duncan
J. Michels



I understand Teddy's nature is to be cheap

Off the top of my head:

Rodgers = big new contract
Driver = big new contract
Barnett = big new contract
Kampman = big new contract
Grant = big (incentive-wise) new contract
Harris = big new contract

The only thing I would argue with you, is that those 4 highlighted are not arguable. Harrell could never play another game for the packers and be less of a bust then them.

And I would add B. Fullwood to that list also.

[Lurker64]

I think Grabby McSmurf might also be close to the list of "guys Harrell won't be worse than if he plays another down." After all, Mr. Carroll couldn't start in the Arena league. I believe we actually lost games purely because he committed some truly execrable penalties.

[Gunakor]

Unless I read incorrectly, the list was in response to the claim that "Harrell will go down as one of the top 5 dumbest draft picks ever in Packer history", when in fact he will be "lucky" to make the top 10.

I'd agree, though if Harrell never gets healthy enough to start a game then I'd have to disagree with quite a few names on the list. Any first round pick that can't start a game for the team who drafted him can't be considered a bigger bust than those who have, regardless of how well they played in those starts. To this point, Harrell has been a bigger bust than Buckley, Mandarich (although Mandarich being drafted #1 overall is a valid argument), Edwards, Michels, Carroll, etc. Poor performance is still better than no performance.

[sharpe1027]

I'd agree, though if Harrell never gets healthy enough to start a game then I'd have to disagree with quite a few names on the list. Any first round pick that can't start a game for the team who drafted him can't be considered a bigger bust than those who have, regardless of how well they played in those starts. To this point, Harrell has been a bigger bust than Buckley, Mandarich (although Mandarich being drafted #1 overall is a valid argument), Edwards, Michels, Carroll, etc. Poor performance is still better than no performance.

Makes sense, but I don't think that whether or not a player started is the end of performance analysis. I could make a good argument that many starting performances were worse than Harrell's backup duty. All starters are not created equal. Pickett and Jolly are decent players. Who did those other guys have to beat out to earn their starting positions?

At the end of the day, Harrell is a mid-first round pick that has been part of the DL rotation when healthy. Disappointing injury history? Absolutely. In contention for top 5 worst pick ever? Hardly.

[cheesner]

I'd agree, though if Harrell never gets healthy enough to start a game then I'd have to disagree with quite a few names on the list. Any first round pick that can't start a game for the team who drafted him can't be considered a bigger bust than those who have, regardless of how well they played in those starts. To this point, Harrell has been a bigger bust than Buckley, Mandarich (although Mandarich being drafted #1 overall is a valid argument), Edwards, Michels, Carroll, etc. Poor performance is still better than no performance.

Makes sense, but I don't think that whether or not a player started is the end of performance analysis. I could make a good argument that many starting performances were worse than Harrell's backup duty. All starters are not created equal. Pickett and Jolly are decent players. Who did those other guys have to beat out to earn their starting positions?

At the end of the day, Harrell is a mid-first round pick that has been part of the DL rotation when healthy. Disappointing injury history? Absolutely. In contention for top 5 worst pick ever? Hardly.
Harrell has actually played well at times and has shown promise. If his career fails because of injuries, well, it was a gamble on greatness. Some of the players on the list simply sucked (mandarich), refused to play for the Team (Clark), the coaches didn't want him on the team (Rich Campbell) or were character problems (Brent 'I was out late last night so I can't play coach' Fullwood. They leave you scratching your head as to why the team would have drafted them.

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