Favre was hurt

[red]

from espn

Sources: Favre won't need major surgery

By Ed Werder

Updated: December 30, 2008, 6:37 PM ET

Brett Favre has been told by doctors that pain in his right shoulder is from a torn biceps tendon and some calcification in the area, but the New York Jets quarterback would need nothing more than arthroscopic surgery to repair the injury, sources said.

The sources Tuesday also said the 39-year-old Favre might be able to avoid an arthroscopic procedure altogether if he decides to play a 19th NFL season. While playing with what is described as a partial tear of the biceps tendon, Favre contributed to the late-season Jets collapse with nine interceptions and only two touchdown passes in the final five games.

Favre has been encouraged to take as much time as he needs before determining whether to return to the Jets. According to a source, Favre is expected to deliberate for several weeks, perhaps to allow New York time to hire former coach Eric Mangini's successor. Mangini was fired Monday after three seasons.

Favre had complained about pain and seemed to suffer diminished arm strength late in the season. He indicated he was unwilling to undergo numerous surgeries if they were necessary to keep him playing. The latest medical development -- the tear is located near the acromioclavicular joint, sources said -- suggests Favre can make his decision knowing major surgery is not necessary.

Favre had a similar injury to his left shoulder three years ago while playing for the Packers and avoided surgery. He experienced relief from the pain that time when the tendon finally released and has been told to expect the same this time, according to the source. The purpose of arthroscopic surgery would be to provide relief from pain immediately.

Favre led the league with 22 interceptions, matching his number of touchdown passes. He passed for 3,472 yards, his fewest since 2003. In Favre's last five games, four of them losses, his highest passer rating was 61.4.

Ed Werder covers the NFL for ESPN.

------------------------

this would explain a lot, the last thing i thought would go on brett is his arm

[Rastak]

As was discussed earlier today in the Favre thread.

[red]

As was discussed earlier today in the Favre thread.

well, who the hell looks in there?

i try to avoid it as much as possible

[Rastak]

As was discussed earlier today in the Favre thread.

well, who the hell looks in there?

i try to avoid it as much as possible


In the Favre thread for Favre news? Good point, an unlikely place.

[gbgary]

i try to avoid it as much as possible

:lol: me too. lots of dead horses in there. good thing peta hasn't checked it out.

[bobblehead]

hmm..sounds like an excuse. How ironic that all the people that swore ARod would be out by week 4 are now using injury as an excuse for BF's 6th 20 pick season.

[Patler]

Brett Favre MUST have been the only QB who played with an injured throwing arm/shoulder this season, wasn't he? :? :roll:

[cpk1994]

Brett Favre MUST have been the only QB who played with an injured throwing arm/shoulder this season, wasn't he? :? :roll:Just consider who wrote that and what network he works for.

[RashanGary]

Brett had one championship year with the NFL's best defense and ST's. Before that and after that his play has been proped up as a savior (that never happened to save). There's always a reason (excuse) for why Brett is the savior but didn't save. It's always someone else or some surrounding circumstance but never does it dim the bright eyed believers view that he carries 52 men to the top of the mountain year after year.

The fact that Brett is a legend in Green Bay and around hickville USA is undeniable but the combination of intellectual honesty and intellectual prowess of those who worship. . . . well, there is none. Like most legends, it's a bunch of overblown, overrated hype that Favre himself has never lived up to except in the dreamy, star struck eyes of the willing believers. These believers lack of reasoning can stem from a variety of reasons, many of which are personal and many based in tardation.

His durability has been awe inspiring and his longevity impressive. He was a really, really good player for a long, long time. He put together a hell of a respectable career that we can all appreciate. The romantic stories of how he carried 52 guys year after year. . . . that only lives in the minds of the faithfull. Many of these people have firmly grounded their beliefs in life around a half-real but exaggerated hero. The mere questioning of said hero is met with a committed tenacity that is reminiscent of Old World holy crusaders. Remember though, the crusaders are not attacking you. They are defending themselves against the constant attacks on their beliefs. As such, all actions are justified in the name of self preservation. Those who refuse to quite should be taken down with all the might their clan can muster with absolutely no regard for anyone that may be in their path. You get the feeling they would sacrifice their dog in their back yard to prove Brett's status as savior or eat your heart to cleanse their damaged soul after battle.

The rest of us, you know who we are (emotionally stable non-tardians). . . . we know the truth. We appreciate all the fun times Brett brought but recognize there is a whole team and some good coaches that helped him out along the way. Our view isn't nearly as exciting for it lacks the intellectual dishonestly that takes the best moments, eliminates the typical moments and then wrongly extrapolates a heroic fairy tale. Our view is grounded in reality. In short, "the truth" (or at least in the ball park thereof.)

[Kiwon]

Not surprising that Brett got hurt - 30 sacks and a whole bunch of knock downs.

I hope he retires for good. He proved the point that he could still play (if that was his point). It would have been interesting if the Jets had won their division but it wasn't meant to be.

I watched Joe Namath start for the Rams during his last season. The same with O.J. and the 49ers.

Those guys played one season too long. Hopefully it'll be one and done for Farve with the Jets.

Hang'um up, Brett, and enjoy life down in 'Ole Miss.

[prsnfoto]

As was discussed earlier today in the Favre thread.

well, who the hell looks in there?

i try to avoid it as much as possible


In the Favre thread for Favre news? Good point, an unlikely place.

Crabby your team is about to lose 41-0? :D

[prsnfoto]

hmm..sounds like an excuse. How ironic that all the people that swore ARod would be out by week 4 are now using injury as an excuse for BF's 6th 20 pick season.

Where are all these people you are referring too? Favre was hurt so what he still threw some ill advised passes red was not making excuses. Tard.

[prsnfoto]

Brett Favre MUST have been the only QB who played with an injured throwing arm/shoulder this season, wasn't he? :? :roll:

Gonna let this go cause I like Patler! :D

[prsnfoto]

Brett Favre MUST have been the only QB who played with an injured throwing arm/shoulder this season, wasn't he? :? :roll:Just consider who wrote that and what network he works for.


Yes it all a lie told by the Fox news of sports. I deleted the rest of my response because I have been taught to love all God's loser's err children and I surely was going to hell with what I typed. Happy New Year to the forum's real #1 troll.

[PackerBlues]

Brett Favre MUST have been the only QB who played with an injured throwing arm/shoulder this season, wasn't he? :? :roll:

Gonna let this go cause I like Patler! :D

Ditto :lol:

[pbmax]

As was discussed earlier today in the Favre thread.

well, who the hell looks in there?

i try to avoid it as much as possible
I admit it, Red. I fell off the Avoid Favre Thread Bandwagon Program this morning looking for a place to comment on his injury. I commented on that thread.

My name is pbmax, and I have been Favre Thread Free for 15 minutes. Oops, this is a Favre thread isn't it? Clearly I need help.

[prsnfoto]

Brett had one championship year with the NFL's best defense and ST's. Before that and after that his play has been proped up as a savior (that never happened to save). There's always a reason (excuse) for why Brett is the savior but didn't save. It's always someone else or some surrounding circumstance but never does it dim the bright eyed believers view that he carries 52 men to the top of the mountain year after year.

The fact that Brett is a legend in Green Bay and around hickville USA is undeniable but the combination of intellectual honesty and intellectual prowess of those who worship. . . . well, there is none. Like most legends, it's a bunch of overblown, overrated hype that Favre himself has never lived up to except in the dreamy, star struck eyes of the willing believers. These believers lack of reasoning can stem from a variety of reasons, many of which are personal and many based in tardation.

His durability has been awe inspiring and his longevity impressive. He was a really, really good player for a long, long time. He put together a hell of a respectable career that we can all appreciate. The romantic stories of how he carried 52 guys year after year. . . . that only lives in the minds of the faithfull. Many of these people have firmly grounded their beliefs in life around a half-real but exaggerated hero. The mere questioning of said hero is met with a committed tenacity that is reminiscent of Old World holy crusaders. Remember though, the crusaders are not attacking you. They are defending themselves against the constant attacks on their beliefs. As such, all actions are justified in the name of self preservation. Those who refuse to quite should be taken down with all the might their clan can muster with absolutely no regard for anyone that may be in their path. You get the feeling they would sacrifice their dog in their back yard to prove Brett's status as savior or eat your heart to cleanse their damaged soul after battle.

The rest of us, you know who we are (emotionally stable non-tardians). . . . we know the truth. We appreciate all the fun times Brett brought but recognize there is a whole team and some good coaches that helped him out along the way. Our view isn't nearly as exciting for it lacks the intellectual dishonestly that takes the best moments, eliminates the typical moments and then wrongly extrapolates a heroic fairy tale. Our view is grounded in reality. In short, "the truth" (or at least in the ball park thereof.)


You are right coming from the biggest bust of TT's tenure you surely know that Favre is at best an average QB who probably doesn't even belong in the HOF. :roll:

[sharpe1027]

You are right coming from the biggest bust of TT's tenure you surely know that Favre is at best an average QB who probably doesn't even belong in the HOF. :roll:

Did you read the post? Or do you just enjoy making strawman arguments? I am not defending the post, but you clearly did not take 30 seconds to try to understand it.

Favre is Favre, what I like best about him is also what drives me crazy about him. Maybe that is why I can be pissed at him and still think he is the best QB of his time.

[cpk1994]

Brett Favre MUST have been the only QB who played with an injured throwing arm/shoulder this season, wasn't he? :? :roll:Just consider who wrote that and what network he works for.


Yes it all a lie told by the Fox news of sports. I deleted the rest of my response because I have been taught to love all God's loser's err children and I surely was going to hell with what I typed. Happy New Year to the forum's real #1 troll.Okay asshat, I know you are a retard so I will slow this down for you. The story in the beginning of the thread is by Ed Werder. He works for ESPN. ESPN has been kissing Favre's ass and making excuses for him for 17 years. See where I am going with this? Seriously, you give the mentally retarded a bad name.

[Harlan Huckleby]

ANY 39-year-old that tries to throw as hard and often as he did is likely to damage his throwing shoulder. FAvre probably had to really strain to make those throws with the same old velocity. IT would be interesting to get Warren Moon's take, he's another strong-armed QB who played around 40. Wonder how his arm felt after 16 games. (Edit: I guess he did get to play ONE playoff game with the vikes too. :wink: )

I do cut Favre some slack on his declining performance at the end of the season, his weakening arm was part of the problem. But he has a long history of going through slumps when his team his struggling, most of the ints were the old story of mental errors.

I think Thompson made a reasonable decision letting Favre go. That's all I care about. I'm not a big believer in calling decsions "right" or "wrong" based on the outcome, so much is unpredictable and chance, it doesn't "prove" that a decision was dumb or smart.

[Fritz]

I'm not sure about who's retarded and who's not, but I do think Favre's behavior here is reminiscent of earlier behavior in the offseason. He's not making excuses, but...

Well, it was his choice to retire, but...

It just seems to be part of the guy's pattern. Doesn't take away from the fact that the dude is one of the best QB's ever to play the game. Being a fan of his team was like being on a roller coaster - one minute you're up, cuz he's throwing zinger t.d. passes between four defenders, the next minute you're screaming at the t.v. cuz he's throwing the ball right into a linebacker's hands.

Crazy dude. But a great QB.

[Harlan Huckleby]

He's not making excuses, but...

I agree. Adding drama to the MRI, "my retirement decision will depend on the results of the test." That's just saying that everything bad can be blamed on the bad luck of a bum shoulder.

[Pugger]

I hope he retires too. It was not fun to watch 'highlights' of some of his awful passes the last few weeks. I don't want him to continue to play like this like Jerry Rice did at the end of his career. :?

[Fritz]

It's so hard to say with Favre. At this point I'm guessing he just wants to go home and forget this past year ever happened. But come April or May, when the Jets have a new coach, high hopes, new draft picks...old #4 might decide this really is the year of Brett the Jet, and he might want to come back for one more shot.

Maybe if he only played the first half of the season then let the second stringer take over, he'd have a great year.

[GrnBay007]

The fact that Brett is a legend in Green Bay and around hickville USA is undeniable but the combination of intellectual honesty and intellectual prowess of those who worship. . . . well, there is none. Like most legends, it's a bunch of overblown, overrated hype that Favre himself has never lived up to except in the dreamy, star struck eyes of the willing believers. These believers lack of reasoning can stem from a variety of reasons, many of which are personal and many based in tardation.



I worry about you if you believe 1/2 of what you write. Favre is a bunch of overblown, overrated hype? lol Why don't you wait to post that shit when another QB comes in and does what he did for the Packer organization. And making references of "tardation" really shows your maturity.

[cpk1994]

The fact that Brett is a legend in Green Bay and around hickville USA is undeniable but the combination of intellectual honesty and intellectual prowess of those who worship. . . . well, there is none. Like most legends, it's a bunch of overblown, overrated hype that Favre himself has never lived up to except in the dreamy, star struck eyes of the willing believers. These believers lack of reasoning can stem from a variety of reasons, many of which are personal and many based in tardation.



I worry about you if you believe 1/2 of what you write. Favre is a bunch of overblown, overrated hype? lol Why don't you wait to post that shit when another QB comes in and does what he did for the Packer organization. And making references of "tardation" really shows your maturity.How is it not overblown hype? Good god every single commentator on his games would excuse any mistake he made using the tired "he was trying to make a play" excuse. It was that shit that led in part to Favre believeing he could have what ever he wanted when he wanted it and that he was above everyone else. Find me one example of a commentator during a game that actuially said "You know that weas a bonehead decision by Favre". Find me one. You won't becuade they were too busy slobbering all over him and kissing his ass. JH is right to a point. The media has made Favre out to be something he is not. It's disgusting.

[Harlan Huckleby]

At this point I'm guessing he just wants to go home and forget this past year ever happened.

I don't know, by some measures he had a pretty successful season. He got named to the PRo Bowl on the strength an impressive start. He got a rebuilt team clicking on all cylanders. His old body broke down, no shame in that.

I doubt he regrets his year abroad. I admire him for taking a risk and accomplishing as much as he did.

[packinpatland]

The fact that Brett is a legend in Green Bay and around hickville USA is undeniable but the combination of intellectual honesty and intellectual prowess of those who worship. . . . well, there is none. Like most legends, it's a bunch of overblown, overrated hype that Favre himself has never lived up to except in the dreamy, star struck eyes of the willing believers. These believers lack of reasoning can stem from a variety of reasons, many of which are personal and many based in tardation.



I worry about you if you believe 1/2 of what you write. Favre is a bunch of overblown, overrated hype? lol Why don't you wait to post that shit when another QB comes in and does what he did for the Packer organization. And making references of "tardation" really shows your maturity.


007, you are right on......especially about the"And making references of "tardation" really shows your maturity.", comment.

The 'raising' of Brett Favre is much like the raising of a child. Show me a kid who has been given everything, lacks for nothing, is the center of attention at every family function, has never been told 'NO'. And I'll show you a kid, who when given the chance, siblings, relatives, friends will dump on.

Now with Brett, he earned most of his accalades. Most of those records broken are his. But along the way, mostly in GB.........they made him into someone that was above the game, above the team. Maybe a 'NO', long time ago would have changed the course of things that came. Want a separate locker room, Brett? 'NO', Want to miss parts of early training? 'NO', The 'NO's' never came.
Just once, after a horrendous game had they benched him and played the backup, maybe he'd have gotten the idea that he was dispensable. Just maybe, if the GB organization hadn't made him the face of the Packers, he wouldn't have thought he was that face. Just maybe if the media hadn't done all those (too many) specials about him, long before he retired, he wouldn't have thought of himself as 'legend' before he became one.
Favre needs to retire, he needed to retire. It was good once. It's not anymore. It's painful. Anyone close to him, if they care, should be telling him that.
There is little doubt that Brett Favre was a one-of-a-kind player. I'm just not sure that that lasted 18 years.

[cpk1994]

The fact that Brett is a legend in Green Bay and around hickville USA is undeniable but the combination of intellectual honesty and intellectual prowess of those who worship. . . . well, there is none. Like most legends, it's a bunch of overblown, overrated hype that Favre himself has never lived up to except in the dreamy, star struck eyes of the willing believers. These believers lack of reasoning can stem from a variety of reasons, many of which are personal and many based in tardation.



I worry about you if you believe 1/2 of what you write. Favre is a bunch of overblown, overrated hype? lol Why don't you wait to post that shit when another QB comes in and does what he did for the Packer organization. And making references of "tardation" really shows your maturity.


007, you are right on......especially about the"And making references of "tardation" really shows your maturity.", comment.

The 'raising' of Brett Favre is much like the raising of a child. Show me a kid who has been given everything, lacks for nothing, is the center of attention at every family function, has never been told 'NO'. And I'll show you a kid, who when given the chance, siblings, relatives, friends will dump on.

Now with Brett, he earned most of his accalades. Most of those records broken are his. But along the way, mostly in GB.........they made him into someone that was above the game, above the team. Maybe a 'NO', long time ago would have changed the course of things that came. Want a separate locker room, Brett? 'NO', Want to miss parts of early training? 'NO', The 'NO's' never came.
Just once, after a horrendous game had they benched him and played the backup, maybe he'd have gotten the idea that he was dispensable. Just maybe, if the GB organization hadn't made him the face of the Packers, he wouldn't have thought he was that face. Just maybe if the media hadn't done all those (too many) specials about him, long before he retired, he wouldn't have thought of himself as 'legend' before he became one.
Favre needs to retire, he needed to retire. It was good once. It's not anymore. It's painful. Anyone close to him, if they care, should be telling him that.
There is little doubt that Brett Favre was a one-of-a-kind player. I'm just not sure that that lasted 18 years.He did have that someone, but that someone is no longer living. Than man was Irv.

[packinpatland]

My point was........no one with the organization ever said NO...........at least not till the end.

[cpk1994]

My point was........no one with the organization ever said NO...........at least not till the end.Holmgren was the only one who had the stones to tell Favre NO.

[MJZiggy]

I thought McCarthy did too...it was the gap in between that is at issue.

[Partial]

The fact that Brett is a legend in Green Bay and around hickville USA is undeniable but the combination of intellectual honesty and intellectual prowess of those who worship. . . . well, there is none. Like most legends, it's a bunch of overblown, overrated hype that Favre himself has never lived up to except in the dreamy, star struck eyes of the willing believers. These believers lack of reasoning can stem from a variety of reasons, many of which are personal and many based in tardation.



I worry about you if you believe 1/2 of what you write. Favre is a bunch of overblown, overrated hype? lol Why don't you wait to post that shit when another QB comes in and does what he did for the Packer organization. And making references of "tardation" really shows your maturity.How is it not overblown hype? Good god every single commentator on his games would excuse any mistake he made using the tired "he was trying to make a play" excuse. It was that shit that led in part to Favre believeing he could have what ever he wanted when he wanted it and that he was above everyone else. Find me one example of a commentator during a game that actuially said "You know that weas a bonehead decision by Favre". Find me one. You won't becuade they were too busy slobbering all over him and kissing his ass. JH is right to a point. The media has made Favre out to be something he is not. It's disgusting.

What are you talking about? I can think of countless times where announcers state Favre made a bad play. You're delusional. You're up their with JH. I don't have clips of NFL games on my computer, but listen to the games and you'll hear it happen. 2005 versus Cinncinatti rings a bell.

As for the rest, thats making a hearty assumption that Favre "believes" that crap. You know what happens when you assume.

[Partial]

My point was........no one with the organization ever said NO...........at least not till the end.Holmgren was the only one who had the stones to tell Favre NO.

Again, you're making blind speculation. Do you work for the Packers? Are you in the locker room? You truly say some stupid stuff.

I will say this once line, and it is an undeniable fact that should silence all the critics.

Brett Favre has NEVER let a team go on a 5 game losing streak during his Packer career. Especially on a team this talented. 2002 was decimated by injuries just as bad as this year if not worse, and we still ended up doing fine.

[packinpatland]

Here's one FOR Favre:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=3804255&sportCat=nfl


Favre-Rodgers saga didn't have to end this way
By Gene Wojciechowski
ESPN.com

Updated: January 1, 2009, 3:46 PM ET

"Get ready to print your retraction," read one.

"I'll bet you don't remember me," began another. "I'm the guy who said, 'I think you're wrong about Brett Favre. I think he's washed up."'

And "[Aaron] Rodgers is, right now, much, much better than Favre -- not a little, a whole lot better."

Turns out some Green Bay Packers fans have long memories, except when it comes to the Packers' 6-10 record this season. They also have blind spots; we all do. I have one for Favre and will never apologize for it. I also have one for the Packers. It's my favorite pro team, favorite stadium, favorite helmet logo, favorite game-day experience. I grew up on that franchise.

But sorry, there won't be any retractions. Just because Rodgers had a better statistical season doesn't mean the Packers were a better team without Favre.

First of all, the numbers don't always make the man. If they did, then six of the top 10 quarterbacks by passing yards and six of the top 10 by touchdowns wouldn't be done with their seasons. But they are, including Rodgers and Favre.

I wrote before the season's start that Packers management botched the entire Favre situation. I stand by that. Favre changed his mind about retirement, but the Packers just as clumsily changed their minds about Favre.

I wrote that Favre was the best QB on the roster: "Again, nothing against Rodgers, who finds himself between a rock and a legacy, but if the goal is to win as many games as possible, then [general manager Ted] Thompson has to embrace Favre's possible return." I stand by that, too.

Rodgers played well this season. He played hurt. He played in the blinding light of the post-Favre era and did so with poise and heart. If he stays healthy (he played much of the season with a shoulder injury), the Packers have themselves a quarterback.

But Favre played well, too -- not as often as Rodgers did, but well enough that the Jets were 8-3 after beating the then-undefeated Tennessee Titans on the road. You remember: That was the same week the Packers got beat 51-29 by New Orleans to drop to 5-6 and start a five-game losing streak. Weird. I don't remember getting any "Favre's washed up" e-mails then.

Turns out Favre played hurt, too. No surprise there. But a now-diagnosed torn biceps tendon affected his arm strength down the stretch.

His critics say he looked old. Duh -- he's 39. But isn't there the possibility that he simply looked injured? Big difference.

The mistake people make is trying to compare Rodgers' season with Favre's. Rodgers had more passing yards, more touchdowns, fewer interceptions, more rushing yards and a higher passer rating -- so he's clearly the better quarterback.

But do wins count for anything? Favre's Jets had nine compared to the Packers' six. They beat three playoff-bound teams; the Packers defeated one. Favre's Jets gagged away their division lead in the last month, but they still had a chance at the playoffs. The Packers were officially eliminated with two weeks remaining in the season.

Do divisions count for anything? Favre's Jets played in an AFC East in which two teams finished with 11 wins and the worst team finished with seven. Compare that to the mediocre NFC North, home of only one double-digit-win team (the Minnesota Vikings) and the 0-16 Detroit Lions. One-third of the Packers' victories came against the losingest team in the history of the NFL.

Do circumstances count for anything? Favre didn't have the benefit of a full training camp or a full playbook. Everything was a work in progress with the Jets -- and stayed that way. (And yes, I know Chad Pennington made a similar transition from the Jets to the Miami Dolphins and thrived. It was a remarkable season for him. Pennington deserves much of the credit, but it helped that he was in Jets/Dolphins camp for the entire time. And it's clear now that Tony Sparano and his Miami staff were more nimble and better prepared for the transition than the Jets' Eric Mangini and his staff.)

Rodgers had the pressure of replacing Favre, but he also had an entire offseason and training camp to prepare for it. And there can't be any debate that the Packers' skill players, especially at wide receiver, were better than the Jets'.

Anyway, the move from the Packers to Jets doesn't absolve Favre from throwing a league-leading 22 interceptions. Some of those INTs were killers. But the same goes for Rodgers, whose late-game interceptions in Week 14 against Houston and Week 15 against Jacksonville ended comeback attempts. In fact, Rodgers was 0-8 in comeback situations this season.

The simple truth is we'll never know if the Packers would have been better or worse with Favre this season. That's because it was never an option.

All we know for sure is that the inconsistent and underachieving Packers moved on. Did they move forward? I don't know -- is 6-10 moving forward after playing in an NFC Championship Game with Favre a season earlier?

I'm not blaming Rodgers for the mess. He wasn't perfect, but he also wasn't the problem -- just like Favre wasn't the main problem with the Jets. I see why Thompson was willing to make a leap of faith with Rodgers, but Favre's departure could have -- and should have -- been handled better by Packers management.

What I don't see is why it had to end this way, with some Packers fans reveling in the Jets' failures and Favre's injury and struggles. It's as if they can live with a 6-win season as long as Favre and the Jets suffer, too. Dumb.

So no retractions. Favre did what he could. So did Rodgers. As it turns out, neither was enough.

Gene Wojciechowski is the senior national columnist for ESPN.com. You can contact him at gene.wojciechowski@espn3.com.

[Pacopete4]

Here's one FOR Favre:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=3804255&sportCat=nfl


Favre-Rodgers saga didn't have to end this way
By Gene Wojciechowski
ESPN.com

Updated: January 1, 2009, 3:46 PM ET

"Get ready to print your retraction," read one.

"I'll bet you don't remember me," began another. "I'm the guy who said, 'I think you're wrong about Brett Favre. I think he's washed up."'

And "[Aaron] Rodgers is, right now, much, much better than Favre -- not a little, a whole lot better."

Turns out some Green Bay Packers fans have long memories, except when it comes to the Packers' 6-10 record this season. They also have blind spots; we all do. I have one for Favre and will never apologize for it. I also have one for the Packers. It's my favorite pro team, favorite stadium, favorite helmet logo, favorite game-day experience. I grew up on that franchise.

But sorry, there won't be any retractions. Just because Rodgers had a better statistical season doesn't mean the Packers were a better team without Favre.

First of all, the numbers don't always make the man. If they did, then six of the top 10 quarterbacks by passing yards and six of the top 10 by touchdowns wouldn't be done with their seasons. But they are, including Rodgers and Favre.

I wrote before the season's start that Packers management botched the entire Favre situation. I stand by that. Favre changed his mind about retirement, but the Packers just as clumsily changed their minds about Favre.

I wrote that Favre was the best QB on the roster: "Again, nothing against Rodgers, who finds himself between a rock and a legacy, but if the goal is to win as many games as possible, then [general manager Ted] Thompson has to embrace Favre's possible return." I stand by that, too.

Rodgers played well this season. He played hurt. He played in the blinding light of the post-Favre era and did so with poise and heart. If he stays healthy (he played much of the season with a shoulder injury), the Packers have themselves a quarterback.

But Favre played well, too -- not as often as Rodgers did, but well enough that the Jets were 8-3 after beating the then-undefeated Tennessee Titans on the road. You remember: That was the same week the Packers got beat 51-29 by New Orleans to drop to 5-6 and start a five-game losing streak. Weird. I don't remember getting any "Favre's washed up" e-mails then.

Turns out Favre played hurt, too. No surprise there. But a now-diagnosed torn biceps tendon affected his arm strength down the stretch.

His critics say he looked old. Duh -- he's 39. But isn't there the possibility that he simply looked injured? Big difference.

The mistake people make is trying to compare Rodgers' season with Favre's. Rodgers had more passing yards, more touchdowns, fewer interceptions, more rushing yards and a higher passer rating -- so he's clearly the better quarterback.

But do wins count for anything? Favre's Jets had nine compared to the Packers' six. They beat three playoff-bound teams; the Packers defeated one. Favre's Jets gagged away their division lead in the last month, but they still had a chance at the playoffs. The Packers were officially eliminated with two weeks remaining in the season.

Do divisions count for anything? Favre's Jets played in an AFC East in which two teams finished with 11 wins and the worst team finished with seven. Compare that to the mediocre NFC North, home of only one double-digit-win team (the Minnesota Vikings) and the 0-16 Detroit Lions. One-third of the Packers' victories came against the losingest team in the history of the NFL.

Do circumstances count for anything? Favre didn't have the benefit of a full training camp or a full playbook. Everything was a work in progress with the Jets -- and stayed that way. (And yes, I know Chad Pennington made a similar transition from the Jets to the Miami Dolphins and thrived. It was a remarkable season for him. Pennington deserves much of the credit, but it helped that he was in Jets/Dolphins camp for the entire time. And it's clear now that Tony Sparano and his Miami staff were more nimble and better prepared for the transition than the Jets' Eric Mangini and his staff.)

Rodgers had the pressure of replacing Favre, but he also had an entire offseason and training camp to prepare for it. And there can't be any debate that the Packers' skill players, especially at wide receiver, were better than the Jets'.

Anyway, the move from the Packers to Jets doesn't absolve Favre from throwing a league-leading 22 interceptions. Some of those INTs were killers. But the same goes for Rodgers, whose late-game interceptions in Week 14 against Houston and Week 15 against Jacksonville ended comeback attempts. In fact, Rodgers was 0-8 in comeback situations this season.

The simple truth is we'll never know if the Packers would have been better or worse with Favre this season. That's because it was never an option.

All we know for sure is that the inconsistent and underachieving Packers moved on. Did they move forward? I don't know -- is 6-10 moving forward after playing in an NFC Championship Game with Favre a season earlier?

I'm not blaming Rodgers for the mess. He wasn't perfect, but he also wasn't the problem -- just like Favre wasn't the main problem with the Jets. I see why Thompson was willing to make a leap of faith with Rodgers, but Favre's departure could have -- and should have -- been handled better by Packers management.

What I don't see is why it had to end this way, with some Packers fans reveling in the Jets' failures and Favre's injury and struggles. It's as if they can live with a 6-win season as long as Favre and the Jets suffer, too. Dumb.

So no retractions. Favre did what he could. So did Rodgers. As it turns out, neither was enough.

Gene Wojciechowski is the senior national columnist for ESPN.com. You can contact him at gene.wojciechowski@espn3.com.


probably the best written article that I've seen in this whole saga of shenanigans..

[Bretsky]

good article PIP

[denverYooper]

But do wins count for anything? Favre's Jets had nine compared to the Packers' six. They beat three playoff-bound teams; the Packers defeated one. Favre's Jets gagged away their division lead in the last month, but they still had a chance at the playoffs. The Packers were officially eliminated with two weeks remaining in the season.

The Packers beat 2 playoff-bound teams.

[GrnBay007]

:bclap:

Good article.

and something I've been trying to express...

What I don't see is why it had to end this way, with some Packers fans reveling in the Jets' failures and Favre's injury and struggles. It's as if they can live with a 6-win season as long as Favre and the Jets suffer, too. Dumb.

[b bulldog]

The reason for that is that some people revel in making Brett to be more than he is. Brett is a great QB that only won one SB. Very exciting player, a good face for the NFL for a while but also a guy that would kill his team with his terrible throws.

[Bretsky]

:bclap:

Good article.

and something I've been trying to express...

What I don't see is why it had to end this way, with some Packers fans reveling in the Jets' failures and Favre's injury and struggles. It's as if they can live with a 6-win season as long as Favre and the Jets suffer, too. Dumb.



YOU WERE ?

Chicks...........they think we can read their minds :?: :lol:

[packinpatland]

No.........we don't. But we do reserve the right to bitch about it when you can't. :lol:

[cpk1994]

The fact that Brett is a legend in Green Bay and around hickville USA is undeniable but the combination of intellectual honesty and intellectual prowess of those who worship. . . . well, there is none. Like most legends, it's a bunch of overblown, overrated hype that Favre himself has never lived up to except in the dreamy, star struck eyes of the willing believers. These believers lack of reasoning can stem from a variety of reasons, many of which are personal and many based in tardation.



I worry about you if you believe 1/2 of what you write. Favre is a bunch of overblown, overrated hype? lol Why don't you wait to post that shit when another QB comes in and does what he did for the Packer organization. And making references of "tardation" really shows your maturity.How is it not overblown hype? Good god every single commentator on his games would excuse any mistake he made using the tired "he was trying to make a play" excuse. It was that shit that led in part to Favre believeing he could have what ever he wanted when he wanted it and that he was above everyone else. Find me one example of a commentator during a game that actuially said "You know that weas a bonehead decision by Favre". Find me one. You won't becuade they were too busy slobbering all over him and kissing his ass. JH is right to a point. The media has made Favre out to be something he is not. It's disgusting.

What are you talking about? I can think of countless times where announcers state Favre made a bad play. You're delusional. You're up their with JH. I don't have clips of NFL games on my computer, but listen to the games and you'll hear it happen. 2005 versus Cinncinatti rings a bell.

As for the rest, thats making a hearty assumption that Favre "believes" that crap. You know what happens when you assume.YOu bring up 2005 at Cincinatti to make your argument? You just provided a prime example of what I said. After he threw that illegal forward pass, the announcers went on and on and on about how great it was that hw was trying to make a play and that he was a warrior and what heart, convinently ignoring the fact that every time the D gave him the ball back, Favre threw it right fucking back. I got so fed up with the announcers sucking Favre's dick(as they have done every game for 18 years) all game long that I nearly broke my TV. Christ, even Wayne Larrivee would apologize ahead of time before making a half hearted attempt to criticize Favre. It was pure bullshit that day. Your delusional if you think announcers never use the phrase "he was just trying to make a play" Hell, Favre himself and Sherman used that same line many times to excuse mistakes.

[Harlan Huckleby]

What I don't see is why it had to end this way, with some Packers fans reveling in the Jets' failures and Favre's injury and struggles. It's as if they can live with a 6-win season as long as Favre and the Jets suffer, too. Dumb.

What way does the author expect it to end? FAvre acted like a total dick last summer, its rather amazing that so many Packer fans have forgiven him. Check out packerrats for the taunting posts from Favre supporters after the Tennessee game when Favre was riding high. Why would packer fans wish Favre well when it leads to more of that crap?

I see the Thompson haters have-checked in with a thumbs up for this fine article. Pacopete, 007, Bretsky, PackinPatland. The usual rogue's gallery. Where are Partial, Mobb and gex?

[Bretsky]

What I don't see is why it had to end this way, with some Packers fans reveling in the Jets' failures and Favre's injury and struggles. It's as if they can live with a 6-win season as long as Favre and the Jets suffer, too. Dumb.

What way does the author expect it to end? FAvre acted like a total dick last summer, its rather amazing that so many Packer fans have forgiven him. Check out packerrats for the taunting posts from Favre supporters after the Tennessee game when Favre was riding high. Why would packer fans wish Favre well when it leads to more of that crap?

I see the Thompson haters have-checked in with a thumbs up for this fine article. Pacopete, 007, Bretsky, PackinPatland. The usual rogue's gallery. Where are Partial, Mobb and gex?


I'm a Thompson hater ?

Gosh I use to think you were on top of things

[Harlan Huckleby]

Darrell Thompson. He was a good running back, just wasn't used properly.