The Right Decision

[HarveyWallbangers]

Not stirring up the pot, but this is the elephant in the room. Disregarding everything else, did the Packers make the right decision to move on at QB before this season?

[Rastak]

Not stirring up the pot, but this is the elephant in the room. Disregarding everything else, did the Packers make the right decision to move on at QB before this season?


Yes. No question about it. I thought it was dumb to get rid of Favre because Rodgers was unproven so he (Favre) would have been a perfect insurance policy but with 20/20 hindsight they played it just about right. Maybe they could have ditched him earlier in the process, even given him a release just to make it go away (in hindsight) but the pick is a good consilation and again, they played it pretty well now that it's played out.

[pbmax]

I thought Rodgers would be a step back from Favre and we would have trouble rushing the passer. Because of this, I predicted 9-7.

Rodgers far exceeded my expectations, as there were very few times he seemed unable to cope with the situation. The front seven on D and our first half season run game performed below expectations.

I do not see Rodgers as culpable for the steep decline in our record. He has room to improve and he is not yet a Pro Bowler or All Pro, but he will be very good. It was the right decision at the right time.

[gbgary]

at first i wasn't so sure but now after all is said and done.......yes.

just wish it hadn't come to that though. Brett has, temporarily at least, lost some respect from the whole ordeal.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Absolutely. Yes.

[wist43]

I'm not a big Favre apologist, but I wanted it handled differently. Favre's annual swan song grew tiresome yes, but putting a taint on his HOF career shouldn't have been the end result.

I hate that it looks like an ugly divorce. Rodgers being better than most of us could have hoped, to me, isn't the point.

[cheesner]

I'm not a big Favre apologist, but I wanted it handled differently. Favre's annual swan song grew tiresome yes, but putting a taint on his HOF career shouldn't have been the end result.

I hate that it looks like an ugly divorce. Rodgers being better than most of us could have hoped, to me, isn't the point.
I voted yes. I feel the good of the team out-weighs the good of an individual.

I wish the divorce wasn't as ugly as it was, but, from what I have seen and heard, that was mostly on Brett. I won't hold it against him, though, and rooted for him even as a jet. Based on his play this season, it was a big mistake for him to try and come back. I hope he retires again and stays retired (after signing with the Pack so he can retire as a Packer)

[pbmax]

I'm not a big Favre apologist, but I wanted it handled differently. Favre's annual swan song grew tiresome yes, but putting a taint on his HOF career shouldn't have been the end result.

I hate that it looks like an ugly divorce. Rodgers being better than most of us could have hoped, to me, isn't the point.
That's about the fairest summation of the situation I have read, in terms of how the baton should have been passed. But to me the important point is who to choose and when. And I endorse the choice.

[cpk1994]

Absolutely the right call. If you look at this situation long term, something the Favre cult couldn't or refused to, It is real clear. Rodgers had been progressing from year to year in preseason. McCarthy believed he was ready. Then Brett retired. Perfect Rodgers has had 3 years to learn. Let's go. Then Favre pulls his crap. Still thinking long term you have 2 choices:

1.Stick with your original plan of Rodgers,

2.Go back to Favre.

With one you know what you have with Rodgers. With option 2 Favre is probably gone after 1 or 2 more years tops. After Favre retires for good, you have nothing at QB because after pulling out the rug on Rodgers, Rodgers will tell TT & M3 to get bent and leave. You have invested millions on a player that will most probably pay off for another team. TT would be a laughing stock if that happened.

It was better to take the abuse from the Favre cult in the short term in not going back to Favre becuase Rodgers is probably a better option in the long term with 3 seasons under his belt in the system vs. a player starting from scratch. The GM should always be looking long term. We saw what happened when you only deal in the short term with Sherman. It was a miserable failure.

[MadtownPacker]

So is it necessary that you start with that "Favre cult" bullshit??? You are no better than pacopete, just of the opposite opinion. Pathetic and troll like. Guess that is just who you are. For the better of the forum try to keep it to yourself more often.

As for the topic, yeah the right choice was made. Just went down real shitty.

[DonHutson]

Bill Cowher has a vote:


While the Jets hoped to woo Cowher with a boatload of money, the marriage appeared to be unlikely from the outset. Sources close to Cowher said he did not want to have Favre as his quarterback, and that he also wanted to bring in people he was familiar with to handle personnel.

A source familiar with Cowher's thinking said before last night's decision came down that the former Steeler boss would have to receive assurances from the Jets that the 39-year-old Favre no longer was in the picture before agreeing to take control.

"There's no way he's taking Brett Favre as his quarterback," said one person close to Cowher.

from the NY post - http://www.nypost.com/seven/12312008/sports/jets/bill_tells_jets_look_elsewhere__favre_to_146662.ht m

[sheepshead]

Could have done it a year earlier.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e102/heymike0308/2218951294_1523dffcbf_b.jpg

[Badgerinmaine]

I'm only voting "yes" because "hell, yeah" isn't one of the proffered alternatives. Now, was it handled smoothly? Not entirely, but that's not the question asked here.

[The Shadow]

Absolutely the right decision.
I feel more optomistic now about the future than I have for a long, long time.
Championships are won with a team mentality,

[Partial]

Not stirring up the pot, but this is the elephant in the room. Disregarding everything else, did the Packers make the right decision to move on at QB before this season?

For 2008, no, for the future in general, obviously.

[Noodle]

Let's be honest -- absent a career-ending injury, there's no way Favre was going to go quietly in to that good night. Dude is a war horse, and when he hears the trumpets blow, he's going to want to go.

So it was going to be ugly. It just was. We are lucky that Arod did as well as he did, and that guys like Driver stood behind the new QB and didn't let the situation turn in to lockeroom cancer.

Our problems were with OL, DL, and ST, not with cliques and press distractions. Or with QB play.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

Could have done it a year earlier.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e102/heymike0308/2218951294_1523dffcbf_b.jpg

This picture makes me absolutely sick...I hope he just had a brain freeze during that

[Partial]

The problem with the picture is it is after the ball was thrown. There is a very good chance that the passing lanes on the screen, and to the left were both filled when the ball was let go. Also, let's not forget how relentless that pass rush was. All in all, a bad throw, not enough evidence to judge the decision from that photo.

I would think that you could freeze frame just about every play from every quarterback and see guys open like that. It's very hard to cover a receiver forever, so all odds point to a receiver breaking free. Also, with the relentless pass rush and tall defensive tackles ( tuck is really long ), it is likely that the passing lanes weren't open, but again, you can't see that without seeing the entire play.

I guess this makes me a troll :lol: Logic, who'da thunk?

[Bretsky]

They ended up 6-10 so I'd say to start they either screwed up plenty of things as an organization and/or personnell

But letting Favre move on what not one of their screw ups; they made the right call.

Need to make plenty more right calls to leave the ship of mediocrity behind

[HarveyWallbangers]

The problem with the picture is it is after the ball was thrown. There is a very good chance that the passing lanes on the screen, and to the left were both filled when the ball was let go. Also, let's not forget how relentless that pass rush was. All in all, a bad throw, not enough evidence to judge the decision from that photo.

I agree with this. I said as much when it was first posted. Bad throw. I don't question the decision though. There was another angle from when Favre was letting the ball go, and it wasn't nearly as bad.

[Freak Out]

That's a great hold....who is that?

[MJZiggy]

I don't know, but I'm thinking they declined the penalty... :?

[oregonpackfan]

Absolutely it was the right call.

Again, I am grateful to Favre for all the success he brought to the Packers. That said, it was time for the Packers to move on to a younger QB. In addition, the whole retirement/non-retirement issue for three years was draining on the Packers organization.

The Jets have a 39 year old QB who has diminished skills. The Packers have a 24 year old promising QB with a great future. The Packers also have a respectable draft choice for letting that 39 year old QB go.

[MOBB DEEP]

worked out bad for ALL parties involved

terrible, tear-jerking year; at least obama won....

[Lurker64]

worked out bad for ALL parties involved

Really, we ended up with a QB that threw for 4000 yards, scored 32 TDs to only 16 turnovers (despite an injured throwing shoulder for most of the season), and we got a third round draft pick essentially for free.

Purely from the perspective of the QB position, I think Green Bay made out like a bandit. Ideally the Packers brass would not have let the whole ugly situation drag out as long as it did, but it's not entirely clear there was anything (sensible) they could do about it.

Though, everything about this year *except* the play at the QB position was a disappointment for Packer fans.

[Guiness]

Hind sight's 20-20. Of course the brass made the right decision, in retrospect. As Lurker just stated, 4000yds, 32TDs 16INTs??? If he does that for 10+yrs, we're looking at two consecutive HOFers (ya, I know, I just jinxed AR) and Chicago will wonder wtf they ever did to deserve that kind of shit north of them.

But, I digress. Asking now, the answer is obvious. Based on this past year, AR was the right choice. But who would've made that decision in September. I, for one, will admit that I thought short term (i.e. the 2008 season) Farve was the better choice.

[GrnBay007]

The Packer organization was clearly looking at the future of the team. I can't say whether that was right or wrong considering the chemistry Favre had with the team in 2007....and would most likely carry over to 2008. Chemistry takes time to build.

Considering AR's stats this season, if they to not completely dominate next season I think MM's job needs to be seriously reconsidered. If they repeat 2007, he needs to go.

[channtheman]

Well, I thought it was the right decision in August and I still think it is the right decision. I remember how excited I was for the season to start after watching Rodgers in the first preseason game. Too bad the offensive line and most of the defense didn't really feel like playing this year.

[SkinBasket]

Not stirring up the pot, but this is the elephant in the room. Disregarding everything else, did the Packers make the right decision to move on at QB before this season?

For 2008, no, for the future in general, obviously.

Completely agree. Brett Favre would have played several key positions on defense this year and prevented that 5 game skid by invoking the "it" factor to summon magical unicorns (really are there any other kind?) and fumble inducing bolts of rainbow to decimate the opposing offense. So obvious, I don't know why someone would make a poll.

[Pugger]

I voted yes too. It is too bad the situation got so ugly but both sides must share the blame for that. Did the team have a hangover from all of that crap? Probably to a degree. But the lousy play of ST and D were more culpable than the offense most of the time for our dreadful 2007 season. :?

[cpk1994]

So is it necessary that you start with that "Favre cult" bullshit??? You are no better than pacopete, just of the opposite opinion. Pathetic and troll like. Guess that is just who you are. For the better of the forum try to keep it to yourself more often.

As for the topic, yeah the right choice was made. Just went down real shitty.How is is BS? Did the Favre fans not go after TT just like I said? Are you denying that? Do you deny that their were kids cussing Rodgers out? Do you deny that Rodgers was booed at the scrimmage game by the Favre fans? The facts are in plain sight. TT got crucified by the Favre fans as I said he would if he chose to stick with Rodgers. You call it troll like. I call it fact.

[MJZiggy]

It's the choice of words, CPK. I don't think anyone would deny that there was a lot of emotion thrown around on all sides of the issue, most from both viewpoints having some validity (and here's the key part) that would never be accepted by the people with the opposing viewpoint.

No one is suggesting that it was all sunshine and daisies this summer, but most have gotten over the anger and the hatred horse died so long ago, you're pounding on a skeleton. You've almost ground it to dust. I think for most of us here, we've reached a point where we CAN have a rational discussion about the topic and for the most part, have been. You talk about other people hating, it's time for a little introspection, because you are the MOST harsh and vocal by far on this topic and it's time to follow the lead of EVERYONE else and tone it down if for no other reason, out of respect for everyone else here. I was angry as hell at Favre this summer, but I just don't want to read this BS anymore. I don't deny the things that you mention. They did happen, but Favre did not do them. And to not let them even diminish in your head after 6 months is troll like, fact or not.

I think Aaron's done a fine job this season. I expected him to do well and he's far surpassed my (and likely everyone else's) predictions. Who would have expected 4K yards out of a first year starter, and who would expect 6-10 from a team with 4K passing yards?

A thought occurred to me...I wonder if his perceived fragility over the past seasons was more a result of him tweaking something and coaches pulling him even for the tiniest tweak whether he really could have played or not...it's seems that glass reputation was inaccurate at best.

[Lurker64]

A thought occurred to me...I wonder if his perceived fragility over the past seasons was more a result of him tweaking something and coaches pulling him even for the tiniest tweak whether he really could have played or not...it's seems that glass reputation was inaccurate at best.

Aaron's perceived "fragility" was likely largely due to the fact that all of the action he saw was as a backup, and NFL statistics bear out the fact that backups are far more likely to get injured than starters on a per-play basis for whatever reason. I believe this is frequently attributed to insufficient "warming-up" for a guy who comes in to fill a spot vacated by injury, and it probably has something to do with mental preparedness to avoid big hits and the like.

Plus, you have to think that any defense that knocks Favre around enough to get him out of the game might also hit his backup a little. I remember seeing some statistic where in games where Favre gets knocked out by injury, his backup needs to be replaced by the #3 with alarming regularity.

[pbmax]

Here is the pre-throw look from last year's championship game. One thing to remember about our Offensive Line was the way they out pass blocked the vaunted Logan Mankins led Patriots line versus the same Giants pass rush.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/paisans_2006/favrelastpass2.jpg

[cpk1994]

It's the choice of words, CPK. I don't think anyone would deny that there was a lot of emotion thrown around on all sides of the issue, most from both viewpoints having some validity (and here's the key part) that would never be accepted by the people with the opposing viewpoint.

No one is suggesting that it was all sunshine and daisies this summer, but most have gotten over the anger and the hatred horse died so long ago, you're pounding on a skeleton. You've almost ground it to dust. I think for most of us here, we've reached a point where we CAN have a rational discussion about the topic and for the most part, have been. You talk about other people hating, it's time for a little introspection, because you are the MOST harsh and vocal by far on this topic and it's time to follow the lead of EVERYONE else and tone it down if for no other reason, out of respect for everyone else here. I was angry as hell at Favre this summer, but I just don't want to read this BS anymore. I don't deny the things that you mention. They did happen, but Favre did not do them. And to not let them even diminish in your head after 6 months is troll like, fact or not.

I think Aaron's done a fine job this season. I expected him to do well and he's far surpassed my (and likely everyone else's) predictions. Who would have expected 4K yards out of a first year starter, and who would expect 6-10 from a team with 4K passing yards?

A thought occurred to me...I wonder if his perceived fragility over the past seasons was more a result of him tweaking something and coaches pulling him even for the tiniest tweak whether he really could have played or not...it's seems that glass reputation was inaccurate at best.But I'm not angry. I simply laid out both cases as TT probably saw them when he made his choice which is also how I came to support him and agreed that ARod was the right decision. That's all.

As for Favre himself, you are right he didn't do any of those things personally. But he could have stopped it by being professional, telling his fans "Don't take this out on ARod" and not acting like a cry baby.

[Deputy Nutz]

Not stirring up the pot, but this is the elephant in the room. Disregarding everything else, did the Packers make the right decision to move on at QB before this season?

That is exactly what you are doing. Whats the point? This was a season from hell on all accounts, even for those that were in favor of the Favre trade and held some kind of dislike of Favre didn't even get the second round pick when Favre and the Jets imploded at the end of the season. Nothing worked out right in 2008, nothing.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Nothing worked out right in 2008, nothing.

True, but management made the best of a bad situation.

[MJZiggy]

It's the choice of words, CPK. I don't think anyone would deny that there was a lot of emotion thrown around on all sides of the issue, most from both viewpoints having some validity (and here's the key part) that would never be accepted by the people with the opposing viewpoint.

But I'm not angry. I simply laid out both cases as TT probably saw them when he made his choice which is also how I came to support him and agreed that ARod was the right decision. That's all.

As for Favre himself, you are right he didn't do any of those things personally. But he could have stopped it by being professional, telling his fans "Don't take this out on ARod" and not acting like a cry baby.

Refrain from calling people that saw Favre as the victim in all this a "cult" and you might make a better case. State your opinion without using inflammatory phrases (including calling people names--yes that includes Favre) and you might find more agreement. You catch more flies with honey, honey.

[Bretsky]

It's the choice of words, CPK. I don't think anyone would deny that there was a lot of emotion thrown around on all sides of the issue, most from both viewpoints having some validity (and here's the key part) that would never be accepted by the people with the opposing viewpoint.

No one is suggesting that it was all sunshine and daisies this summer, but most have gotten over the anger and the hatred horse died so long ago, you're pounding on a skeleton. You've almost ground it to dust. I think for most of us here, we've reached a point where we CAN have a rational discussion about the topic and for the most part, have been. You talk about other people hating, it's time for a little introspection, because you are the MOST harsh and vocal by far on this topic and it's time to follow the lead of EVERYONE else and tone it down if for no other reason, out of respect for everyone else here. I was angry as hell at Favre this summer, but I just don't want to read this BS anymore. I don't deny the things that you mention. They did happen, but Favre did not do them. And to not let them even diminish in your head after 6 months is troll like, fact or not.

I think Aaron's done a fine job this season. I expected him to do well and he's far surpassed my (and likely everyone else's) predictions. Who would have expected 4K yards out of a first year starter, and who would expect 6-10 from a team with 4K passing yards?

A thought occurred to me...I wonder if his perceived fragility over the past seasons was more a result of him tweaking something and coaches pulling him even for the tiniest tweak whether he really could have played or not...it's seems that glass reputation was inaccurate at best.But I'm not angry. I simply laid out both cases as TT probably saw them when he made his choice which is also how I came to support him and agreed that ARod was the right decision. That's all.

As for Favre himself, you are right he didn't do any of those things personally. But he could have stopped it by being professional, telling his fans "Don't take this out on ARod" and not acting like a cry baby.


Your sarcasm, jabs, and posts are full of anger; I doubt many would argue with that

[red]

for me its kind of yes and no

i don't like the fact that they made the huge change when they were so close to the super bowl last year. i thought the combination of favre and M3 were awesome last year and i was hoping for more of the same this year. i think we saw favre revert to shit again mostly because mangini couldn't control him as well as m3 did last year. if favre had stayed here, the combination of those 2 might have produced the same results as last year. and they made the move for a guy who never had a start. its was a giant gamble that i don't and didn't like

however, the gamble looks to be a good one, as a-rod surpassed most expectations. it now looks like instead of having 1 or 2 good years at qb, we will now have at least another decade of good play there

now we come to the win now versus later debate. the suits didn't know at the time that this year would be a throw away year by the rest of the team. they should have been all in IMO to win the SB this year and they were not. so i am disappointed in that

however you can't be disappointed in what our future looks like at qb with a-rod

so for me its a little yes and no

[GrnBay007]

Nothing worked out right in 2008, nothing.

That's not entirely true. After the winning 2007 season both MM and TT received contract extensions and raises in January of 2008.

[The Leaper]

It was the right decision to make. Generally, I think you should always go younger in the NFL. IMO, it would make sense to dump Driver if you could get something of value for him. Hanging onto guys heading into the twilight of their careers typically doesn't garner much for your team.

I didn't like getting rid of Favre, because I thought this team was poised to make another deep run if we added one or two key pieces. Since Thompson didn't add those pieces (and probably will NEVER add them when necessary) I have reached the point of apathy regarding the Favre situation, as well as Thompson.

[Harlan Huckleby]

i think we saw favre revert to shit again mostly because mangini couldn't control him as well as m3 did last year. if favre had stayed here, the combination of those 2 might have produced the same results as last year.

I think that's a stretch to believe. Rodgers played as well as Favre this season.

And the gossip I hear on ESPN radio is that Mangini was arguably too hard on Favre, taking him to task in front of other players.

[Pugger]

Nothing worked out right in 2008, nothing.

That's not entirely true. After the winning 2007 season both MM and TT received contract extensions and raises in January of 2008.

2008 wasn't pretty but we did learn one thing: we have a darn good QB to fill Brett's shoes! :) If AR gets even better next year 2009 might be real fun if TT and company fix our D and O lines.

[Partial]

Here is the pre-throw look from last year's championship game. One thing to remember about our Offensive Line was the way they out pass blocked the vaunted Logan Mankins led Patriots line versus the same Giants pass rush.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/paisans_2006/favrelastpass2.jpg

So there you have it. The passing lane to the left is closed. He could possibly float it to Grant/Jackson/whoever that is, but with Strahan being so long and containing, he could EASILY make a play on that ball.

Honestly with that view the pass doesn't look nearly as bad imo.

[DonHutson]

Thomas Jones has cast his vote:


"The other day, the three interceptions really hurt us. I mean, that's just reality," Jones told the radio station. "If I were to sit here and say, 'Oh, man, it's OK,' that's not reality. ... I don't like it, I know everybody else on the team doesn't like it. If somebody is not playing well, they need to come out of the game," Jones told Hot 97 FM. "You're jeopardizing the whole team because you're having a bad day. To me, that's not fair to everybody else. You're not the only one on the team. So when you get to the wire and somebody is just giving the game up, I mean, it's just not [fair]."

In the same article, an anonymous Jet cast his vote:


A veteran Jets player, quoted anonymously by Newsday, described Favre as a "distant" teammate who, when at the Jets' practice facility, spent his down time away from teammates in an office specially designated for him.

"There was a lot of resentment in the room about him. He never socialized with us, never went to dinner with anyone," the player told Newsday.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3804004

[Joemailman]

The vote is this poll is 41-5 in the affirmative. Who could have predicted that 4 months ago? Like many I was conflicted at the time, but I certainly understood MM wanting to go with the QB who didn't need 5 months to decide if he wanted to play.

When it became obvious that the Packers were going with Rodgers, I was hoping Favre would decide to stay retired. Now you have Jets players taking shots at Favre in the media. I wish even more now that Favre had stayed retired.

[Freak Out]

Damn...classy Jets players and classy "Packer" fans.

[pbmax]

So there you have it. The passing lane to the left is closed. He could possibly float it to Grant/Jackson/whoever that is, but with Strahan being so long and containing, he could EASILY make a play on that ball.

Honestly with that view the pass doesn't look nearly as bad imo.

There are two lanes to the left he can look through and that limit presumes he cannot see over the linebacker that the Fullback is blocking which is 3 yards away. There is nothing wrong with the pocket. What it does tell me is that Favre locked onto a receiver early in the pattern and took the single safety towards Driver. It could still have been completed, but the throw was not on target for the route Driver ran.

[Partial]

We're in agreement that it wasn't a bad read, just a bad throw.

[Zool]

I would agree with that assessment. If the ball is thrown 6 feet to the right, its at worst incomplete. Seeing the RB coming into the flat after chipping is not exactly easy with 4-5 dudes who are all 6'2+ and 300 pounds+ between you and the back. Just a bad throw at the worst possible time.

[sheepshead]

Here is the pre-throw look from last year's championship game. One thing to remember about our Offensive Line was the way they out pass blocked the vaunted Logan Mankins led Patriots line versus the same Giants pass rush.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/paisans_2006/favrelastpass2.jpg

So there you have it. The passing lane to the left is closed. He could possibly float it to Grant/Jackson/whoever that is, but with Strahan being so long and containing, he could EASILY make a play on that ball.

Honestly with that view the pass doesn't look nearly as bad imo.


That's Grant coming across the middle-that's where he should have gone and kept the drive alive.

[packrat]

It might be "classy" to cover up for a player's goofs, but that isn't going to win games. Should MM be "classy" and keep Sanders out of the same kind of loyalty that some have to a washed up Favre? Or is it only with regard to Favre that we are supposed to be "classy."

[prsnfoto]

Could have done it a year earlier.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e102/heymike0308/2218951294_1523dffcbf_b.jpg

This picture makes me absolutely sick...I hope he just had a brain freeze during that

Why this picture is complete bullshit the ball is already in route there have been several others posted that show Grant wasn't even released when the ball was thrown the NFL is a game of split seconds three split seconds before that Driver had seperation and Grant was just releasing. It was a bad throw not a bad read as just about every so called expert has already stated.

[Fritz]

As to the original poll, I'd love to know how the seven people who thought Favre should have been kept think that Favre would have been better than Rodgers this year, and how possibly losing Rodgers would have been worth a battered, beat-down Favre at year's end. Oh, and also how Favre's annual retirement game would have been worth playing again after this season.

I'm not sure I can even imagine such reasoning, but I'd like to hear what's out there.

[cpk1994]

As to the original poll, I'd love to know how the seven people who thought Favre should have been kept think that Favre would have been better than Rodgers this year, and how possibly losing Rodgers would have been worth a battered, beat-down Favre at year's end. Oh, and also how Favre's annual retirement game would have been worth playing again after this season.

I'm not sure I can even imagine such reasoning, but I'd like to hear what's out there.Great question! I also am wanting to hear the answer.

[GBRulz]

Why, so you can torment them with your charming personality? :roll:

[GBRulz]

They ended up 6-10 so I'd say to start they either screwed up plenty of things as an organization and/or personnell

But letting Favre move on what not one of their screw ups; they made the right call.

Need to make plenty more right calls to leave the ship of mediocrity behind

:bclap: :bclap: :bclap:

I still say that the whole soap opera was a bigger distraction to the team then what has been let on.

[sheepshead]

Could have done it a year earlier.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e102/heymike0308/2218951294_1523dffcbf_b.jpg

This picture makes me absolutely sick...I hope he just had a brain freeze during that

Why this picture is complete bullshit the ball is already in route there have been several others posted that show Grant wasn't even released when the ball was thrown the NFL is a game of split seconds three split seconds before that Driver had seperation and Grant was just releasing. It was a bad throw not a bad read as just about every so called expert has already stated.

hey einstein-look at the pic pbmax posted. also-look at the size of the ball. It's large and that tells you that it just left favres hand. Look at Bretts right arm, he just then released the ball. Favre was comfortably in the pocket. I always thought Grant should have gotten the ball. I also contend that Brett made that throw, trying to force a big play and get the game over with and get out of dodge-he hated playing that game judging by his body language that day.

[SkinBasket]

I love how the people who are wrong on this site always hide behind the shimmering veil of decency when they were just as toxic before they were proven wrong.

[GrnBay007]

It's funny that a group that is SO happy Favre was traded and doesn't like Favre, spend SO much of their time talking about him. I mean, really, he's no longer a Packer, why do you care?

What's that saying about people that live in glass houses?

Last summer the split (Packers/Favre) was compared to that of a bitter divorce. Well, months later it's sad to see some Packer fans still wishing nasty things on their old partner. Maybe it's just that things didn't go quite as well as some thought they would in 2008 (record) so that's all the more reason to look back and find things to bitch about what you left behind.


What I don't see is why it had to end this way, with some Packers fans reveling in the Jets' failures and Favre's injury and struggles. It's as if they can live with a 6-win season as long as Favre and the Jets suffer, too. Dumb. ~Gene

[HarveyWallbangers]

Ugh! Is it sad like some Packer fans still wishing nasty things on their GM?

[SkinBasket]

I think it's much more the need to feel personally vindicated or to feel smarter than they are that people talk the way they do - one way or the other - about Favre. I find it hard to believe people could invest even a fraction of the personal emotional investment that they claim to into caring what actually happens to Favre himself. The continued vehemence or even extended curiosity is simply a means to an end of egomastrubatorial behavior in most cases.

[DonHutson]

The continued vehemence or even extended curiosity is simply a means to an end of egomastrubatorial behavior in most cases.

There's a money shot I don't need to see.

[Fritz]

Part of the post-mortem results from so many people feeling so strongly and taking so many shots that now that one side is or seems to be (mostly) vindicated, it wants to rub it in a little bit. Those discussions this summer got pretty heated.

[Freak Out]

BTW I voted yes.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Part of the post-mortem results from so many people feeling so strongly and taking so many shots that now that one side is or seems to be (mostly) vindicated, it wants to rub it in a little bit. Those discussions this summer got pretty heated.

Summer? It didn't get good until after Halloween.

I actually didn't care if Favre did well or badly. But the idea that one could be a fan of both the Packers and the Jets was impossible. Too much taunting. I was for Favre, against his followers.

[Partial]

Here is the pre-throw look from last year's championship game. One thing to remember about our Offensive Line was the way they out pass blocked the vaunted Logan Mankins led Patriots line versus the same Giants pass rush.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/paisans_2006/favrelastpass2.jpg

So there you have it. The passing lane to the left is closed. He could possibly float it to Grant/Jackson/whoever that is, but with Strahan being so long and containing, he could EASILY make a play on that ball.

Honestly with that view the pass doesn't look nearly as bad imo.


That's Grant coming across the middle-that's where he should have gone and kept the drive alive.

Or easily had the ball picked with a free lancing, extremely long armed and athletic linemen in Strahan reading his eyes waiting for the chance to intercept the exact pass you describe...

It was a bad throw. I don't think the read was too bad.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Maybe it's just that things didn't go quite as well as some thought they would in 2008 (record) so that's all the more reason to look back and find things to bitch about what you left behind.

I think there is some truth to this. Since the PAckers had a lousy season, I didn't want Favre to do too well.

But it really was the awful behavior of you Favre cultists that mostly made it hard to support him.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I still say that the whole soap opera was a bigger distraction to the team then what has been let on.

This can't be proven, but I really doubt it. Rodgers played very well, clearly he wasn't rattled. And the team started strong, the time when you'd expect them to be most off-kilter. This was a fan soap-opera. I guess it did put a lot of pressure on MM, perhaps it effected him somehow, but the players were fine.

The last time the team got hit by such an injury bug, they went 4-12. And that was with a relatively young Favre at the helm. Ya, you can't make a direct comparison, but that was another packer team coming off a good record.

Injuries/poor GM moves on the D line was reason #1. They lost KGB, Williams, Jenkins, HArrell.

[GrnBay007]

But it really was the awful behavior of you Favre cultists that mostly made it hard to support him.

It's funny you use that word "cultists" HH.


But the idea that one could be a fan of both the Packers and the Jets was impossible.

You talk about "cults"? lol

I didn't find it hard at all in 2008 to support the Packers and Favre with the Jets. The only thing that was unpleasant was all the negativity here.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I didn't find it hard at all in 2008 to support the Packers and Favre with the Jets. The only thing that was unpleasant was all the negativity here.

I guess we agree on this last point. We just have different sources of negativity to deal with.

[sheepshead]

Here is the pre-throw look from last year's championship game. One thing to remember about our Offensive Line was the way they out pass blocked the vaunted Logan Mankins led Patriots line versus the same Giants pass rush.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/paisans_2006/favrelastpass2.jpg

So there you have it. The passing lane to the left is closed. He could possibly float it to Grant/Jackson/whoever that is, but with Strahan being so long and containing, he could EASILY make a play on that ball.

Honestly with that view the pass doesn't look nearly as bad imo.


That's Grant coming across the middle-that's where he should have gone and kept the drive alive.

Or easily had the ball picked with a free lancing, extremely long armed and athletic linemen in Strahan reading his eyes waiting for the chance to intercept the exact pass you describe...

It was a bad throw. I don't think the read was too bad.

Yeah, or martians could have landed in the south end zone--then what huh?

[TennesseePackerBacker]

Here is the pre-throw look from last year's championship game. One thing to remember about our Offensive Line was the way they out pass blocked the vaunted Logan Mankins led Patriots line versus the same Giants pass rush.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/paisans_2006/favrelastpass2.jpg

So there you have it. The passing lane to the left is closed. He could possibly float it to Grant/Jackson/whoever that is, but with Strahan being so long and containing, he could EASILY make a play on that ball.

Honestly with that view the pass doesn't look nearly as bad imo.


That's Grant coming across the middle-that's where he should have gone and kept the drive alive.

Or easily had the ball picked with a free lancing, extremely long armed and athletic linemen in Strahan reading his eyes waiting for the chance to intercept the exact pass you describe...

It was a bad throw. I don't think the read was too bad.


I think the best option was obviously Lee or whatever TE that was single covered over the middle. He made the 2nd worst read he could've made, and then a poor throw on top of that. Either Grant or Lee was the pass, both of them relatively safe. Strahan was no intercepting machine, the scenario you describe is remote at best.

[Partial]

I tend to agree on the pass to Lee being the best option the more I look at the photo. He has the passing lane, and it looks like Lee is a step or two closer to Favre than the defender. He could have led Lee and it likely would have been an incompletion worst case scenario.

Not saying Strahan is an intercepting machine. Saying he could have made a play on the ball, though, and is athletic and long enough to do so. He's completely disengaged from Tauscher, almost like he is defending the short pass to Grant.

[pbmax]

Partial, c'mon. If any QB cannot complete that pass to the RB, then they have no business throwing 30 yards to a much better covered Driver. The back is as open as anyone gets. Strahan is covering the flat and the back is in the middle short zone.

Now that said, Favre has already decided where to go in the picture I posted. The difference between Favre and Rodgers, and I am just presuming, is that Rodgers would take the checkdown. That checkdown treated him good and bad this year, often coming up short on third down. But with this defense, the checkdown is wide open as the Giants have blitzed and left no one to cover the middle of the field.

Unless I am way off, the TE route was designed to leave the RB open in case of a blitz or on one on one with no blitz. Once the blitz was read, this was the probably the first option.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Hindsight being 20/20, I might have gone to Jennings on the left-side. He has his man beat. The corner has safety help, but a good throw to the outside should get to Jennings before the safety gets there.

[Patler]

If he made any of the other throws as off target as the one he did throw, the result may have been no different. He should have been able to complete passes to any of the four different routes, including the one he did throw. He just threw a bad pass.

[Partial]

Hindsight being 20/20, I might have gone to Jennings on the left-side. He has his man beat. The corner has safety help, but a good throw to the outside should get to Jennings before the safety gets there.

Yeah, but don't you think Tuck could get a paw on the ball coming up the middle? I think thats why he didn't go that route, as he is the most open imo.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Yeah, but don't you think Tuck could get a paw on the ball coming up the middle? I think thats why he didn't go that route, as he is the most open imo.

You act like he has massive pressure and that this play is somehow different than other plays. He has normal passing lanes. He could have thrown to one of four receivers. None of them would have been bad decisions. Like Patler said, he just threw a bad pass.

[Bretsky]

Hindsight being 20/20, I might have gone to Jennings on the left-side. He has his man beat. The corner has safety help, but a good throw to the outside should get to Jennings before the safety gets there.


Agree; I'd also have a lot more faith with Jennings in a 1 on 1 with a CB as well; for coming up with the ball or knocking an INT away.

[Noodle]

I'm no Favre cultist, and yes the checkdown was there, but the throw to Driver was not stupid. Driver has leverage on the DB, so a good throw to the outside gets it done. Also, the photo is misleading, as PB explains, because it doesn't show the position of the DB when Favre decided to throw. Even as depicted, however, I'm figuring Favre has made that throw, and completed it, with similar coverage about a million times in his career.

I believe the error was in thinking that he could make a 30 yard out on a rope in those conditions at that point in the game. You gotta figure the guy was chilled to the bone and that his hands felts like blocks of ice.

A guy has got to know his limitations.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'm no Favre cultist

denial - the first sign. when you walk outside on a sunny afternoon, do you have a shadow? do your eyes glow in the dark? I think you are one of them.

[Noodle]

I'm no Favre cultist

denial - the first sign. when you walk outside on a sunny afternoon, do you have a shadow? do your eyes glow in the dark? I think you are one of them.

They tried to make me go to rehab, I said, "No, no, no."

[Freak Out]

Is that a still from the Zapruder film?

[The Shadow]

I'm no Favre cultist

when you walk outside on a sunny afternoon, do you have a shadow?


Of course!