More coaches to be fired?

[red]

from pft

PACKER MINI-PURGE COMING?
Posted by Mike Florio on January 2, 2009, 9:04 p.m.

Before we received word via e-mail from the Packers that special teams coordinator Mike Stock has retired, a reader asked us via e-mail if we’d caught wind of rumors that Stock and three other members of the team’s coaching staff were in danger of being relieved of their duties.

So after hearing about Stock, we ran the rumors by a league source with knowledge of the dynamics of the team’s football operations. Though our source has heard nothing definitive, the source was aware of the rumors that Stock, defensive coordinator Bob Sanders, defensive ends coach Carl Hairston, and offensive line coach James Campen could be gone.

Campen and Sanders were working with the team when coach Mike McCarthy was hired. Harison arrived with McCarthy in 2006.

[Brando19]

I just read that, too. I wonder who his "league sources" are? Hopefully this is true...a fresh start will be nice with our defense.

[pbmax]

Dammit Red!!

:lol:

[TennesseePackerBacker]

This could get interesting, anyone know if McCarthy has any previous ties to any of the potential D-coordinators people have listed?

[Bretsky]

This could get interesting, anyone know if McCarthy has any previous ties to any of the potential D-coordinators people have listed?


He coached with Mike Nolan in San Francisco

I believe he has some ties to Jim Haslett from a while back also

[red]

Dammit Red!!

:lol:
gotta be quicker

:D

i heard something at midseason about campen maybe being on the way out. i think he knew he was on his way out

[Bretsky]

FROM PB

Hairston played for the Browns when I was a fan of that team and he was just a good all around guy. Good rep, great with media and fans. He was getting older and his best days were with the Eagles, but he was a quality player at DT.

Very much like Reggie on the Packers, just lent an aura of veteran accountability and respectability to the whole operation. He wasn't in Reggie's class as a player when he was traded, but he was very good in his heyday. I hope he, and the rest, land on their feet should this bear out.

[pbmax]

Dammit Red!!

:lol:
gotta be quicker

:D

i heard something at midseason about campen maybe being on the way out. i think he knew he was on his way out
Yeah, by like less than a minute! :lol:

[HarveyWallbangers]

He coached with Mike Nolan in San Francisco

I believe he has some ties to Jim Haslett from a while back also

OC for Haslett in New Orleans, right?

[Bretsky]

He coached with Mike Nolan in San Francisco

I believe he has some ties to Jim Haslett from a while back also

OC for Haslett in New Orleans, right?


Yup, that makes sense

I just remember JSO commenting Nolan or Haslett would be strong possibilities from the outside since they have ties to MM. They mentioned a 3rd guy but I can't remember who it was.

If they go 3-4 that USC LB is a monster :!:

[MacCool606]

This reminds me of the thread when TT was going to pick his head coach. Everyone had a wish, and none of them came true.

Is there some way we can be sure that Kurt Schottenheimer won't get promoted because his unit performed good this year?

That's what scares me. Alot of bid names out there, but are they even being considered?

[Bretsky]

This reminds me of the thread when TT was going to pick his head coach. Everyone had a wish, and none of them came true.

Is there some way we can be sure that Kurt Schottenheimer won't get promoted because his unit performed good this year?

That's what scares me. Alot of bid names out there, but are they even being considered?


Yup, lots of up and comers and some with track records too

Probably sets us up for MM to hand deliver the DC to Winston Moss w/o exploring the rest ............time will tell

[MacCool606]

I'm just hoping that MM is done with his paybacks. His term is due diligence - hopefully he'll pay it.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

The only thing that sucks about changing coordinators is changing schemes. It could potentially set the defense back just that much longer. It would be fun however to see Nolan in the suit coaching up the D.

[retailguy]

The only thing that sucks about changing coordinators is changing schemes. It could potentially set the defense back just that much longer. It would be fun however to see Nolan in the suit coaching up the D.

You wouldn't see the suit under the parka. :wink:

You just gotta check out the Reebok wingtips...

3 to 1 odds from this fan, it's Winston Moss time!. :roll:

[TennesseePackerBacker]

The only thing that sucks about changing coordinators is changing schemes. It could potentially set the defense back just that much longer. It would be fun however to see Nolan in the suit coaching up the D.

You wouldn't see the suit under the parka. :wink:

You just gotta check out the Reebok wingtips...

3 to 1 odds from this fan, it's Winston Moss time!. :roll:

I'd say you're right on the money. However, the gambler in me would take those odds.

[Bretsky]

The only thing that sucks about changing coordinators is changing schemes. It could potentially set the defense back just that much longer. It would be fun however to see Nolan in the suit coaching up the D.

You wouldn't see the suit under the parka. :wink:

You just gotta check out the Reebok wingtips...

3 to 1 odds from this fan, it's Winston Moss time!. :roll:


betting on continuity over quality ? :lol:

[retailguy]

The only thing that sucks about changing coordinators is changing schemes. It could potentially set the defense back just that much longer. It would be fun however to see Nolan in the suit coaching up the D.

You wouldn't see the suit under the parka. :wink:

You just gotta check out the Reebok wingtips...

3 to 1 odds from this fan, it's Winston Moss time!. :roll:


betting on continuity over quality ? :lol:


YOU BETCHA! :wink: :P

(I'd love to be wrong.... But I don't think I'm gonna be.) I don't see them abandoning this defense yet, and all the personnel to this point have been drafted with it in mind. They'll give it one more year to make it work.

[Bretsky]

To me, Continuity is a great word to throw around when you have a history of success to seek continuity for

But when you are following something that has not worked then it should be the least of your worries

[Harlan Huckleby]

defensive ends coach Carl Hairston.

This is shocking - the packers have a defensive ends coach!?


Of all the people to get fired. That poor shmuck had less talent to work with at that position than anywhere else on the whole team. How would YOU like to coach-up Jeremy Thompson, Jason Hunter and Mike Montgomery?

[Patler]

defensive ends coach Carl Hairston.

This is shocking - the packers have a defensive ends coach!?


Of all the people to get fired. That poor shmuck had less talent to work with at that position than anywhere else on the whole team. How would YOU like to coach-up Jeremy Thompson, Jason Hunter and Mike Montgomery?

Apparently MM is of the opinion Hairston should have been able to make more out of Thompson, Hunter and Montgomery than he has. Maybe they look mediocre because of poor coaching?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Montgomery actually made some progress throughout the season. But he is still slow off the ball.

I don't think any of those three guys would make the roster on most NFL teams.

I am no scout, but I don't think any of those three have any talent. Thompson looks the part, maybe he will come around.

[Patler]

Campen may have been promoted too fast. His coaching resume included something like 9 years as a high school coach before coming to the Packers in 2004. He spent one year as a quasi-assistant-to-the-assistant, which was sort of a made up position to give him a chance to get started. He was promoted to a full time assistant line coach for two years, and then took over as the line coach just three season after leaving his high school job.

They often talk about the intricacies of teaching the zone scheme MM wants. When he came MM mentioned the need to have coaches experienced in it. Campen had one year experience with it when he was asked to take over the line upon Philbin's promotion.

I tend to think the line has talent enough to perform better than it has.

[Brohm]

I always wondered why Philben did not retain OL duties, it's not like he calls plays or anything....

[Partial]

Wait, did these guys get let go?

[sheepshead]

Just seeing this , this morning. Well it's all over the internet now so MM's gotta pull the trigger or not---soon.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The Fan poll at jsonline has 88% of fans wanting Sanders to be fired.

I submit this as exhibit A of why Sanders should and will be retained.

[swede]

The comments I heard from MM on local TV last night and this morning seemed to be prepping the public for no more coaching changes short of Stock's "retirement".

(I wish they'd roll a date and time over these clips--I don't know if the clip was six hours old or three days old :x )


Injuries was MM's one word explanation. He apologized for not overcoming the defensive injuries better, but it was plain that he believed injuries were the primary cause of the drop in defensive play. I think he's done firing, which would mean his own head goes on the block already next year--and, perhaps, TT with him.

[Bretsky]

The Fan poll at jsonline has 88% of fans wanting Sanders to be fired.

I submit this as exhibit A of why Sanders should and will be retained.



Because the smart Packer fans are now Jets fans and want him retained :lol:


J/K..............J/K.................

[pbmax]

Wait, did these guys get let go?
Nope. On the other hand, nothing would ensure Al Harris' continued employment by the Packers like keeping the Defensive Staff together would.

At this point, I would settle for a new assistant with a background in multiple front seven attacks getting a job as LB coach if Moss gets a promotion outside the Packers.

If McCarthy keeps Sanders, he will transfer all the heat to himself. His grace period in the fans minds will be up if the defense struggles next year.

[pbmax]

defensive ends coach Carl Hairston.

This is shocking - the packers have a defensive ends coach!?


Of all the people to get fired. That poor shmuck had less talent to work with at that position than anywhere else on the whole team. How would YOU like to coach-up Jeremy Thompson, Jason Hunter and Mike Montgomery?
As a player, his nickname was "Big Daddy". If only his charges could play like he could.

Here is what befuddles me about this unit, both ends and tackles. The Utah Utes were outweighed by a metric ton against the Crimson Tide's O line. They managed to stop Nick "Littlest Napoleon" Saban's rushing attack better than any SEC defense. I want THAT performance. Someone get M3 to watch that game.

[Fosco33]

Campen may have been promoted too fast. His coaching resume included something like 9 years as a high school coach before coming to the Packers in 2004. He spent one year as a quasi-assistant-to-the-assistant, which was sort of a made up position to give him a chance to get started. He was promoted to a full time assistant line coach for two years, and then took over as the line coach just three season after leaving his high school job.

They often talk about the intricacies of teaching the zone scheme MM wants. When he came MM mentioned the need to have coaches experienced in it. Campen had one year experience with it when he was asked to take over the line upon Philbin's promotion.

I tend to think the line has talent enough to perform better than it has.


Wasn't Campen the one who got inbetween TT/M3 and Favre in July/August - telling Favre to report or something (I think Favre talked about it in the Fox interview)....

Seems plausible that he was marked for the axe before the season began.

[cpk1994]

The comments I heard from MM on local TV last night and this morning seemed to be prepping the public for no more coaching changes short of Stock's "retirement".

(I wish they'd roll a date and time over these clips--I don't know if the clip was six hours old or three days old :x )


Injuries was MM's one word explanation. He apologized for not overcoming the defensive injuries better, but it was plain that he believed injuries were the primary cause of the drop in defensive play. I think he's done firing, which would mean his own head goes on the block already next year--and, perhaps, TT with him.But by apologizing for not overcoming the injuries better, that could mean that to fix that problem Sanders will be fired.

[bobblehead]

To me, Continuity is a great word to throw around when you have a history of success to seek continuity for

But when you are following something that has not worked then it should be the least of your worries

Not that I'm defending this D or not, but we have had success with it plenty. Last year it was pretty fucking good to the tune of 13-3. The year bates came in he compeletely turned the D around with this scheme. It has been downright dominant in the past in dallas and miami. Perhaps Sanders and/or injuries were more responsible for its downfall than the base idea of the scheme.

I'm torn on this since I do believe in continuity in the NFL. It takes guys years to get totally comfortable in a system and I don't want to change all the time or they never get comfortable enough to win.

I'll say it again, the Nolan MM combo failed in san fran, I don't want to reinvent it. I would just as soon stick it out with this D for another season with Moss and healthy players.

[bobblehead]

Campen may have been promoted too fast. His coaching resume included something like 9 years as a high school coach before coming to the Packers in 2004. He spent one year as a quasi-assistant-to-the-assistant, which was sort of a made up position to give him a chance to get started. He was promoted to a full time assistant line coach for two years, and then took over as the line coach just three season after leaving his high school job.

They often talk about the intricacies of teaching the zone scheme MM wants. When he came MM mentioned the need to have coaches experienced in it. Campen had one year experience with it when he was asked to take over the line upon Philbin's promotion.

I tend to think the line has talent enough to perform better than it has.

Is that nutcase gibbs available?? Not joe, but the father of the ZBS. Now that would be a move I could get behind and give me hope.

[Partial]

To me, Continuity is a great word to throw around when you have a history of success to seek continuity for

But when you are following something that has not worked then it should be the least of your worries

Not that I'm defending this D or not, but we have had success with it plenty. Last year it was pretty fucking good to the tune of 13-3. The year bates came in he compeletely turned the D around with this scheme. It has been downright dominant in the past in dallas and miami. Perhaps Sanders and/or injuries were more responsible for its downfall than the base idea of the scheme.

I'm torn on this since I do believe in continuity in the NFL. It takes guys years to get totally comfortable in a system and I don't want to change all the time or they never get comfortable enough to win.

I'll say it again, the Nolan MM combo failed in san fran, I don't want to reinvent it. I would just as soon stick it out with this D for another season with Moss and healthy players.

However, late last season we didn't have a pass rush at all. The defense was not great in the second part of last year.

[texaspackerbacker]

The Fan poll at jsonline has 88% of fans wanting Sanders to be fired.

I submit this as exhibit A of why Sanders should and will be retained.

All this proves is that 88% of the people in the poll are idiots.

You go to a different scheme, and the Packers suddenly are a worse team. If Sanders got fired and they got somebody who retained the same scheme, fine. That would be an injustice to Sanders, but I don't really give a shit about that. If somebody comes in and puts in some crap system with a lot of zone coverage and/or blitzing, the Packers are suddenly mediocre even if healthy.

I'm pretty sure Thompson/McCarthy have more sense than that, even if a bunch of dumbass fans don't. I'll be relieved when this crap about adjustments to the coaching staff is out of the way.

[mission]

The Fan poll at jsonline has 88% of fans wanting Sanders to be fired.

I submit this as exhibit A of why Sanders should and will be retained.

All this proves is that 88% of the people in the poll are idiots.

You go to a different scheme, and the Packers suddenly are a worse team. If Sanders got fired and they got somebody who retained the same scheme, fine. That would be an injustice to Sanders, but I don't really give a shit about that. If somebody comes in and puts in some crap system with a lot of zone coverage and/or blitzing, the Packers are suddenly mediocre even if healthy.

I'm pretty sure Thompson/McCarthy have more sense than that, even if a bunch of dumbass fans don't. I'll be relieved when this crap about adjustments to the coaching staff is out of the way.

How the hell can you say that?

We were 6-10 ... do I need to repeat that? We blew lead after lead and couldnt get a stop when we needed it all year.

Your basis for your opinion is ridiculously laughable...

It's not about "OMG THE NEW COACH WANTS TO BLITZ A LOT!!" ... there's a lot more to schemes than whether you play press coverage or zone ... it's being creative, it's adjusting through out the game, it's being able to take a player out of the game if he's hurting you. It's about creativity... and btw, you CAN blitz and NOT have less people in coverage.

Watch a Philly or Pittsburgh game... those guys are keeping them guessing the whole game. It's not so black/white as you suggest...

Forget injuries and all that, I've seen very few positive adjustments during games from the defensive coaching staff ... it's just inexcusable.

[DonHutson]

defensive ends coach Carl Hairston.

This is shocking - the packers have a defensive ends coach!?


Of all the people to get fired. That poor shmuck had less talent to work with at that position than anywhere else on the whole team. How would YOU like to coach-up Jeremy Thompson, Jason Hunter and Mike Montgomery?

Apparently MM is of the opinion Hairston should have been able to make more out of Thompson, Hunter and Montgomery than he has. Maybe they look mediocre because of poor coaching?

I am a little surprised to see Hairston on this list. He arrived in 2006 which is the same year that Kampman and Jenkins both really stepped up their games. Coincidence? Maybe. Before he was in Green Bay he coached the first couple years of Jared Allen's career in KC, when he went from the 23rd DL drafted to a nine sack rookie season.

As Harlan said, they've never given this guy a lot to work with. Until this year he's gotten a lot of production out of them. If Jenkins injury was as devastating as they make it sound, it's rough to make Hairston the scapegoat. Winston Moss has done less with more, and he's getting head coaching interviews.

I would whole heartedly applaud the firing of Campen. I would probably shrug my shoulders over the firing of Bob Sanders, because like others in this thread I think that just means a promotion for Moss. I already don't understand the fascination with him. Hairston? Well. what do I know? It's a "what have you done for me lately" world I guess.

[pbmax]

Campen may have been promoted too fast. His coaching resume included something like 9 years as a high school coach before coming to the Packers in 2004. He spent one year as a quasi-assistant-to-the-assistant, which was sort of a made up position to give him a chance to get started. He was promoted to a full time assistant line coach for two years, and then took over as the line coach just three season after leaving his high school job.

They often talk about the intricacies of teaching the zone scheme MM wants. When he came MM mentioned the need to have coaches experienced in it. Campen had one year experience with it when he was asked to take over the line upon Philbin's promotion.

I tend to think the line has talent enough to perform better than it has.


Wasn't Campen the one who got inbetween TT/M3 and Favre in July/August - telling Favre to report or something (I think Favre talked about it in the Fox interview)....

Seems plausible that he was marked for the axe before the season began.

Campen went at the behest of T2 and M3, an emissary of the team. Favre's Greta interview made it seem that Campen was freelancing or talking out of turn. Both McCarthy and Thompson afterwards made clear that Campen delivered the message they wanted delivered: that Favre should stay retired and if he did come back, he would not become the starter by default.

[bobblehead]

To me, Continuity is a great word to throw around when you have a history of success to seek continuity for

But when you are following something that has not worked then it should be the least of your worries

Not that I'm defending this D or not, but we have had success with it plenty. Last year it was pretty fucking good to the tune of 13-3. The year bates came in he compeletely turned the D around with this scheme. It has been downright dominant in the past in dallas and miami. Perhaps Sanders and/or injuries were more responsible for its downfall than the base idea of the scheme.

I'm torn on this since I do believe in continuity in the NFL. It takes guys years to get totally comfortable in a system and I don't want to change all the time or they never get comfortable enough to win.

I'll say it again, the Nolan MM combo failed in san fran, I don't want to reinvent it. I would just as soon stick it out with this D for another season with Moss and healthy players.

However, late last season we didn't have a pass rush at all. The defense was not great in the second part of last year.

true, but again, after KGB got hurt it was damaging to our pass rush. This just supports my position that many times we want to blame a scheme instead of the players. This should make you happy as I'm putting the blame for that on TT as it is him who aquires players. I give him a one time pass on the DL due to injuries and CWilliams wanting huge money. He did what he could and jenkins got hurt and KGB never came back. Next year it has to be improved or its all on TT.

[bobblehead]

The Fan poll at jsonline has 88% of fans wanting Sanders to be fired.

I submit this as exhibit A of why Sanders should and will be retained.

All this proves is that 88% of the people in the poll are idiots.


Strangely I think its 88% of the population that is against gay marriage in national polls. Which side do you fall on tex??

[swede]

The Fan poll at jsonline has 88% of fans wanting Sanders to be fired.

I submit this as exhibit A of why Sanders should and will be retained.

All this proves is that 88% of the people in the poll are idiots.


Strangely I think its 88% of the population that is against gay marriage in national polls. Which side do you fall on tex??

Pssst! Tex, be careful! I think this is some kind of a rhetorical trap! :shock:

[Partial]

To me, Continuity is a great word to throw around when you have a history of success to seek continuity for

But when you are following something that has not worked then it should be the least of your worries

Not that I'm defending this D or not, but we have had success with it plenty. Last year it was pretty fucking good to the tune of 13-3. The year bates came in he compeletely turned the D around with this scheme. It has been downright dominant in the past in dallas and miami. Perhaps Sanders and/or injuries were more responsible for its downfall than the base idea of the scheme.

I'm torn on this since I do believe in continuity in the NFL. It takes guys years to get totally comfortable in a system and I don't want to change all the time or they never get comfortable enough to win.

I'll say it again, the Nolan MM combo failed in san fran, I don't want to reinvent it. I would just as soon stick it out with this D for another season with Moss and healthy players.

However, late last season we didn't have a pass rush at all. The defense was not great in the second part of last year.

true, but again, after KGB got hurt it was damaging to our pass rush. This just supports my position that many times we want to blame a scheme instead of the players. This should make you happy as I'm putting the blame for that on TT as it is him who aquires players. I give him a one time pass on the DL due to injuries and CWilliams wanting huge money. He did what he could and jenkins got hurt and KGB never came back. Next year it has to be improved or its all on TT.

I think last years DL was great. TT did a good job assembling the cast. Since we've been playing this system, Kampman has been invisible in the end of seasons. That says to me they are relying too much on the DL and those guys are running out of steam.

With that said, I fear that change is not coming or it would have happened already. Why wait?

I don't really understand not doing it. MM at the very least buys himself next year as well as the year after if he makes a big change to scheme.

Chocking it up to injuries would be acceptable in my eyes if the injuries were flukes. Jenkins and Bigby appear to be habitually injured players. Woodson has a bit of a scary injury history as well, including playing through a good deal of pain this year and last. What happens if he and Jenkins miss time again next year? Is that going to be the excuse again?

I don't think they can get away with relying on Jenkins to be the full time starter at year at DE. They need to bring in a first or second round pick to fortify that spot, as he is oft-injured.