Justin Harrell

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think a point missed in this latest dissappointing year is that Harrell had significant back surgery in late August. The season-ending hip problem late in the year was related to the weakened back.

Hindsight is 20-20, or at least 20-30, but the real story is that TT should have IR'd Harrell in 2008. Desperation led to a bad risk taken.

HArrell's back problem was not related to conditioning, he showed up in good shape last summer.

I think people who want to define him as a bust now are justified in doing so. Fine, he hasn't delivered anything, that is a bust. But I don't draw any conclusion from what happened this fall, I don't expect that HArrell was ever healthy. There is still hope that he will be a good player next season. Its not (yet) a Jamal Reynolds situation, where the player physically proved to be inadequate.

[DonHutson]

from McGinn's grades:

Justin Harrell: His second season turned into a nightmare when he fell far out of shape in February and then ruptured a lumbar disc in March as he lifted weights trying to make up for lost ground.

Sounds like it was a conditioning problem, or a lack of conditioning problem, that was at the root of everything. And the back problem didn't date from August, but from March. Therefore, he was never in shape for the season.

He'll get another chance to prove himself, but the time when you could rely on him to offer anything of value is gone.

[Joemailman]

I believe the Packers trainer said Harrell did not show up in good shape in the spring, which is when he hurt his back. I agree that if he can get healthy, he still has a chance. I also agree that he is a big reason for the failure of the Packer defense this year. I'm not sure TT would have traded Corey Williams if he had known he would get nothing out of Harrell.

[Pacopete4]

Harrell is a piece of shit.. time to move on

[pbmax]

I will say this about Harrell. Someone threw him under the bus to the press this offseason after he hurt his back at the beginning of the off-season program. They said he reported out of shape, etc.

How does being out of shape guarantee a specific back problem?

How out of shape could he have been in 7 weeks? Someone asked this a while back and its bothered me ever since. Was the source just ticked at him, trying to motivate, or is seven weeks enough time to guarantee this kind of injury?

[MJZiggy]

No, PB. You can gain weight in 7 weeks, and you can lose some strength, but you do not transform from a game-ready athlete to the Pillsbury dough boy in 7 weeks. Yes he did need to learn to put down mama's dumplings, but the remedy is the treadmill. He got hurt lifting, that's all there is to it.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Justin Harrell: His second season turned into a nightmare when he fell far out of shape in February and then ruptured a lumbar disc in March as he lifted weights trying to make up for lost ground.

Sounds like it was a conditioning problem, or a lack of conditioning problem, that was at the root of everything. And the back problem didn't date from August, but from March. Therefore, he was never in shape for the season.

What I know as FACT is that assistant coaches were praising his excellent conditioning in newspaper quotes this summer.

McGinn's SPECULATION might be correct. Or it could be axe grinding to make a spicy story. Its always fun to kick a guy when he is down. We just don't know the truth here, but I believe the coaches comments.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I believe the Packers trainer said Harrell did not show up in good shape in the spring, which is when he hurt his back.

OK buddy, we're gonna dance. Its google-on-google.

[pbmax]

No, PB. You can gain weight in 7 weeks, and you can lose some strength, but you do not transform from a game-ready athlete to the Pillsbury dough boy in 7 weeks. Yes he did need to learn to put down mama's dumplings, but the remedy is the treadmill. He got hurt lifting, that's all there is to it.
We keep up this dismantling of McGinn's favorite saws from this season and I am going to be right behind tex in the torch carrying mob trying to drive them out!

Or, probably not :lol:

[Lurker64]

Well the season is over, so what happened in the past is pretty irrelevant. What I do know is that going forward for year three:

-If Harrell continues to be continually injured and not produce, he's a bust and it was a bad pick.

-If Harrell shows up and plays well, all is forgiven.

[pbmax]

What I know as FACT is that assistant coaches were praising his excellent conditioning in newspaper quotes this summer.
I don't want to slow down your Google duel, but the asst. coaches were praising his shape, but it was the rehab work that they were praising (he's doing all we ask of him, weights down, etc.) not his actual practices or game condition.

[pbmax]

Well the season is over, so what happened in the past is pretty irrelevant. What I do know is that going forward for year three:

-If Harrell continues to be continually injured and not produce, he's a bust and it was a bad pick.

-If Harrell shows up and plays well, all is forgiven.
Speak for yourself, we have got to kill the time before the draft somehow. I can't keep reading about the "real" haters in the Favre thread! :P

[Harlan Huckleby]

What I know as FACT is that assistant coaches were praising his excellent conditioning in newspaper quotes this summer.
I don't want to slow down your Google duel, but the asst. coaches were praising his shape, but it was the rehab work that they were praising (he's doing all we ask of him, weights down, etc.) not his actual practices or game condition.

I'm not finding much in google to support my case, so thanks for the diversion.

[MJZiggy]

No, PB. You can gain weight in 7 weeks, and you can lose some strength, but you do not transform from a game-ready athlete to the Pillsbury dough boy in 7 weeks. Yes he did need to learn to put down mama's dumplings, but the remedy is the treadmill. He got hurt lifting, that's all there is to it.
We keep up this dismantling of McGinn's favorite saws from this season and I am going to be right behind tex in the torch carrying mob trying to drive them out!

Or, probably not :lol:

We could take over for them. (except that there's no way I'm moving back to Wisconsin)

[Patler]

I will say this about Harrell. Someone threw him under the bus to the press this offseason after he hurt his back at the beginning of the off-season program. They said he reported out of shape, etc.

How does being out of shape guarantee a specific back problem?

How out of shape could he have been in 7 weeks? Someone asked this a while back and its bothered me ever since. Was the source just ticked at him, trying to motivate, or is seven weeks enough time to guarantee this kind of injury?

I posted a "timeline" about Harrell. From the time he could have left Green Bay following the player exit interviews the week after the playoff loss, to an interview I found with him already back in Green Bay, a day or two before the voluntary, off season conditioning program started was about 7 weeks. That's it. Another article said he had gained about 10 lbs, which the team did not want him to gain. Ten pounds on a 325 lb. tackle.

People are equating this to players who report out of shape for training camp in August. It wasn't. He had gained a little weight (not unheard of for mammoth DTs) when he reported for a voluntary conditioning program in March, more than 5 months before the season would start. He was there for the specific purpose of getting stronger and in better shape. He had 5 months to do it.

He could have skipped the camp, reported at weight in August, and no one would have known.

People need to think a little bit about what really happened here. Harrell took conditioning seriously enough that he was in GB in March for the first day of the voluntary program. We have had others who skip it and report out of shape in August.

[pbmax]

We could take over for them. (except that there's no way I'm moving back to Wisconsin)
I will not take this personally at all. There is, after all, a half inch of ice on my driveway.

[Pacopete4]

I will say this about Harrell. Someone threw him under the bus to the press this offseason after he hurt his back at the beginning of the off-season program. They said he reported out of shape, etc.

How does being out of shape guarantee a specific back problem?

How out of shape could he have been in 7 weeks? Someone asked this a while back and its bothered me ever since. Was the source just ticked at him, trying to motivate, or is seven weeks enough time to guarantee this kind of injury?

I posted a "timeline" about Harrell. From the time he could have left Green Bay following the player exit interviews the week after the playoff loss, to an interview I found with him already back in Green Bay, a day or two before the voluntary, off season conditioning program started was about 7 weeks. That's it. Another article said he had gained about 10 lbs, which the team did not want him to gain. Ten pounds on a 325 lb. tackle.

People are equating this to players who report out of shape for training camp in August. It wasn't. He had gained a little weight (not unheard of for mammoth DTs) when he reported for a voluntary conditioning program in March, more than 5 months before the season would start. He was there for the specific purpose of getting stronger and in better shape. He had 5 months to do it.

He could have skipped the camp, reported at weight in August, and no one would have known.

People need to think a little bit about what really happened here. Harrell took conditioning seriously enough that he was in GB in March for the first day of the voluntary program. We have had others who skip it and report out of shape in August.


So youre putting up facts that TT did in fact blow a pick on a guy that cant stay healthy?

[pbmax]

People need to think a little bit about what really happened here. Harrell took conditioning seriously enough that he was in GB in March for the first day of the voluntary program. We have had others who skip it and report out of shape in August.
Like his linemate, Pickett. The one armed man was not the same at all this year.

That's it, I am calling McGinn and asking for my Christmas card back!

[pbmax]

So youre putting up facts that TT did in fact blow a pick on a guy that cant stay healthy?
Yes, paco, he is. Not because Petler has decided to join an anti-Harrell group, or commit himself to driving all Harrell loving people crazy, but because the truth is important.

McGinn is grinding an ax on Harrell because he can, but he is not reporting facts when he speculates that Harrell was injured because he was out of shape. If any organization hopes to improve compared to its competition, it needs good, clean data and information. Right now, Patler is doing that better than McGinn in Harrell's case.

[Patler]

I posted a "timeline" about Harrell. From the time he could have left Green Bay following the player exit interviews the week after the playoff loss, to an interview I found with him already back in Green Bay, a day or two before the voluntary, off season conditioning program started was about 7 weeks. That's it. Another article said he had gained about 10 lbs, which the team did not want him to gain. Ten pounds on a 325 lb. tackle.

People are equating this to players who report out of shape for training camp in August. It wasn't. He had gained a little weight (not unheard of for mammoth DTs) when he reported for a voluntary conditioning program in March, more than 5 months before the season would start. He was there for the specific purpose of getting stronger and in better shape. He had 5 months to do it.

He could have skipped the camp, reported at weight in August, and no one would have known.

People need to think a little bit about what really happened here. Harrell took conditioning seriously enough that he was in GB in March for the first day of the voluntary program. We have had others who skip it and report out of shape in August.


So youre putting up facts that TT did in fact blow a pick on a guy that cant stay healthy?

Sure. I have stated in numerous other threads that Harrell could turn out to be a bust, but that does not mean I think it was a bad pick at the time it was made. A great many 1st round picks do turn out to be busts, that's just the way it goes. I certainly do not expect TT to hit on his 1st rounders 100% of the time, no GM does.

Harrell's coaches raved about his ability, his natural strength and power. Many have said without the injury his senior year he could have been a top 10 pick. His injuries were not related injuries, they were isolated, individual events. He had tremendous potential. Well worth the risk in the middle of the first round.

I find two things rather humorous. First, people complain about TT being too conservative, not taking chances on player in FA, etc. Yet when he took a chance in the draft for a guy with great potential, he is roundly criticized for taking that chance. Second, at the time people complained about taking a DT instead of a position of "greater need". The need to take DTs whnever you can was certainly proven out this year.

TT took a chance on Harrell. It looks like it might be a failure. I still think it was worth the risk at the time he was taken.

Note: I suspect this back thing with Harrell could be the end of his career. Just my feeling. I really hope I am wrong.

[Pacopete4]

So youre putting up facts that TT did in fact blow a pick on a guy that cant stay healthy?
Yes, paco, he is. Not because Petler has decided to join an anti-Harrell group, or commit himself to driving all Harrell loving people crazy, but because the truth is important.


I have nothing against Harrell... he shoulda never been in G&G though so my hatred still falls on the snake himself... thats all

[pbmax]

So youre putting up facts that TT did in fact blow a pick on a guy that cant stay healthy?
Yes, paco, he is. Not because Petler has decided to join an anti-Harrell group, or commit himself to driving all Harrell loving people crazy, but because the truth is important.
I have nothing against Harrell... he shoulda never been in G&G though so my hatred still falls on the snake himself... thats all
How can you say never? Its clear, Corey Williams or no, we have a definite DT need, who else would you have taken?

[Lurker64]

How can you say never? Its clear, Corey Williams or no, we have a definite DT need, who else would you have taken?

Well, the top three DTs on the board that draft were Okoye, Harrell and Branch. Anybody know how Alan Branch is doing in Arizona? Would he have been a better pick? I wasn't really high on him, since he's more in the "tub of goo at DT" mold, but Harrell hasn't really impressed.

[Pacopete4]

So youre putting up facts that TT did in fact blow a pick on a guy that cant stay healthy?
Yes, paco, he is. Not because Petler has decided to join an anti-Harrell group, or commit himself to driving all Harrell loving people crazy, but because the truth is important.
I have nothing against Harrell... he shoulda never been in G&G though so my hatred still falls on the snake himself... thats all
How can you say never? Its clear, Corey Williams or no, we have a definite DT need, who else would you have taken?


I guess you got me.. he mighta still been around in rounds 2-3 or even 4.. never know

[Lurker64]

I guess you got me.. he mighta still been around in rounds 2-3 or even 4.. never know

The word on the street is that Denver would have taken Harrell if we had not. Apparently, according to Shanihan, they had three defensive lineman targeted, and since the top 2 were gone after Green Bay took Harrell, they had to trade up to get Jarvis Moss. I forget who the top guy they had targeted was. It was probably Okoye or Carriker.

So Harrell wouldn't have lasted past pick #21.

[Partial]

How can you say never? Its clear, Corey Williams or no, we have a definite DT need, who else would you have taken?

Well, the top three DTs on the board that draft were Okoye, Harrell and Branch. Anybody know how Alan Branch is doing in Arizona? Would he have been a better pick? I wasn't really high on him, since he's more in the "tub of goo at DT" mold, but Harrell hasn't really impressed.

Branch was hurt this year. I disagree on the blob thing. He's taller, stronger, and more fit looking than Harrell imo.

[Pacopete4]

I guess you got me.. he mighta still been around in rounds 2-3 or even 4.. never know

The word on the street is that Denver would have taken Harrell if we had not. Apparently, according to Shanihan, they had three defensive lineman targeted, and since the top 2 were gone after Green Bay took Harrell, they had to trade up to get Jarvis Moss. I forget who the top guy they had targeted was. It was probably Okoye or Carriker.

So Harrell wouldn't have lasted past pick #21.


ok, so never was the correct word then i guess...

[Bretsky]

I guess you got me.. he mighta still been around in rounds 2-3 or even 4.. never know

The word on the street is that Denver would have taken Harrell if we had not. Apparently, according to Shanihan, they had three defensive lineman targeted, and since the top 2 were gone after Green Bay took Harrell, they had to trade up to get Jarvis Moss. I forget who the top guy they had targeted was. It was probably Okoye or Carriker.

So Harrell wouldn't have lasted past pick #21.


ok, so never was the correct word then i guess...


I believe Carraeker was the other; they knew Okoye would not be there

Leaper had the guy pegged for us before the draft........Reggie Nelson

[Pacopete4]

I guess you got me.. he mighta still been around in rounds 2-3 or even 4.. never know

The word on the street is that Denver would have taken Harrell if we had not. Apparently, according to Shanihan, they had three defensive lineman targeted, and since the top 2 were gone after Green Bay took Harrell, they had to trade up to get Jarvis Moss. I forget who the top guy they had targeted was. It was probably Okoye or Carriker.

So Harrell wouldn't have lasted past pick #21.


ok, so never was the correct word then i guess...


I believe Carraeker was the other; they knew Okoye would not be there

Leaper had the guy pegged for us before the draft........Reggie Nelson

it also goes unnoticed that DT wasnt even close to our biggest need at the time... best player available? according to who? dingbat TT...

[Lurker64]

Branch was hurt this year. I disagree on the blob thing. He's taller, stronger, and more fit looking than Harrell imo.

Partly my opinion is shaped by the (lack of) sterling careers by Michigan DTs in the NFL. I suppose it will be interesting to see whether, after both Branch and Harrell are coming off of injury, which rebounds better in their third year.

In 2007 Branch played in 11 games (no starts) and recorded 9 tackles (8 solo).
In 2007 Harrell played in 7 games (2 starts) and recorded 16 tackles (10 solo).

In 2008 Branch played in 4 games (no starts) and recorded 6 tackles (5 solo).
In 2008 Harrell played in 6 games (no starts) and recorded 12 tackles (8 solo).

In 2009? Who knows. So far it looks like, in a race between uninspiring performances, Harrell is slightly ahead.

[The Shadow]

I guess you got me.. he mighta still been around in rounds 2-3 or even 4.. never know

The word on the street is that Denver would have taken Harrell if we had not. Apparently, according to Shanihan, they had three defensive lineman targeted, and since the top 2 were gone after Green Bay took Harrell, they had to trade up to get Jarvis Moss. I forget who the top guy they had targeted was. It was probably Okoye or Carriker.

So Harrell wouldn't have lasted past pick #21.


ok, so never was the correct word then i guess...


I believe Carraeker was the other; they knew Okoye would not be there

Leaper had the guy pegged for us before the draft........Reggie Nelson

it also goes unnoticed that DT wasnt even close to our biggest need at the time... best player available? according to who? dingbat TT...

Do you mean "Executive of the Year" dingbat TT?

[Pacopete4]

=

Do you mean "Executive of the Year" dingbat TT?

are they going to give him an award for idiot of the year this season and the 4-12 season? I mean fair is fair right? He gets awarded for one good year why cant we give him an award for being a complete douche bag moron?

[Patler]

it also goes unnoticed that DT wasnt even close to our biggest need at the time... best player available? according to who? dingbat TT...

I will reply with a repeat of a quote from my earlier post:


I find two things rather humorous. First, people complain about TT being too conservative, not taking chances on player in FA, etc. Yet when he took a chance in the draft for a guy with great potential, he is roundly criticized for taking that chance. Second, at the time people complained about taking a DT instead of a position of "greater need". The need to take DTs whnever you can was certainly proven out this year.

TT took a chance on Harrell. It looks like it might be a failure. I still think it was worth the risk at the time he was taken.

[Gunakor]

=

Do you mean "Executive of the Year" dingbat TT?

are they going to give him an award for idiot of the year this season and the 4-12 season? I mean fair is fair right? He gets awarded for one good year why cant we give him an award for being a complete douche bag moron?

He scrapped the roster to make cap room, and then watched the Packers offense suffer a litany of injuries in that 4-12 season. Blaming TT for that 4-12 season makes about as much sense as blaming Brett Favre for that 4-12 season.

And there's no way he could win that award this year, with Matt Millen still largely responsible for the Lions disaster.

[Lurker64]

it also goes unnoticed that DT wasnt even close to our biggest need at the time... best player available? according to who? dingbat TT...

The thing about DTs is that "drafting a DT when you need one" is seldom a good idea, since the thing about defensive tackle play is that the transition from the college game to the pro-game is one of the most difficult for that position. Very rarely does a DT come in in his first year and play well in the NFL, largely because the blocking schemes they face in the NFL are a lot more complicated and require a combination of "technique" and "physical talent" to beat, and most great college DTs get by largely on physical ability. I mean, look at Glenn Dorsey who's one of the best DTs to come out of college in recent memory, he didn't do much in his first year.

The thing about DTs is that you draft them before you anticipate needing them, not when you need them. In principle, you do this for every position, but some positions have an easier adjustment coming in as rookies (running backs, notably) than others.

The Harrell pick, wasn't necessarily a bad one at the time. DT was going to be a need a couple years later, and Harrell was a guy that by all accounts would have been a top 10 pick were he not coming off of injury. He had some injury red flags, but Thompson took a risk and drafted a guy who could have been an impact player. So far, it hasn't worked out for him. But the book on Harrell isn't written yet.

[Pacopete4]

=

Do you mean "Executive of the Year" dingbat TT?

are they going to give him an award for idiot of the year this season and the 4-12 season? I mean fair is fair right? He gets awarded for one good year why cant we give him an award for being a complete douche bag moron?

He scrapped the roster to make cap room, and then watched the Packers offense suffer a litany of injuries in that 4-12 season. Blaming TT for that 4-12 season makes about as much sense as blaming Brett Favre for that 4-12 season.

And there's no way he could win that award this year, with Matt Millen still largely responsible for the Lions disaster.


cant we give him the runner up then? Just the notoriety like Favre got for finishing 2nd in MVP voting to Brady last season?

[Gunakor]

=

Do you mean "Executive of the Year" dingbat TT?

are they going to give him an award for idiot of the year this season and the 4-12 season? I mean fair is fair right? He gets awarded for one good year why cant we give him an award for being a complete douche bag moron?

He scrapped the roster to make cap room, and then watched the Packers offense suffer a litany of injuries in that 4-12 season. Blaming TT for that 4-12 season makes about as much sense as blaming Brett Favre for that 4-12 season.

And there's no way he could win that award this year, with Matt Millen still largely responsible for the Lions disaster.


cant we give him the runner up then? Just the notoriety like Favre got for finishing 2nd in MVP voting to Brady last season?

Why?

The biggest decision he made during this past offseason was trading Favre to the Jets. And most would agree that was absolutely the right decision to make at the time. Look at our poll here at PR, or watch FavreSPN, or just go out and mingle with people and ask them.

The second biggest decision he made this past offseason was trading Corey Williams to the Browns. That one looks to have hurt us, but I can't think of a single person that wasn't thrilled to death that we got a second round draft pick for that lazy fat ass. He hasn't done a damn thing since being traded anyway, so it looks like Green Bay made out like a bandit in the deal. There's no way, even now, that I'd trade that second round pick back to the Browns for Williams.

So why the hate? Tracy White? Jon Ryan (under heavy lobbying from the ST coordinator)? The contract extension given to Rodgers? The one given to Grant? Brandon Chillar? Noah Herron? Koren Robinson? Those are the personnel changes from last year to this year. The only bad decision that I can pin on Thompson is Tracy White, and I do hold him responsible for that. But the rest all looked like good moves at the time, and with the benefit of hindsight, all except the Williams trade look to be working out okay. That's far better than my expectations of our GM, because unlike some posters, I don't expect our GM to hit a home run on every decision he makes. I expect he'll make a few bad decisions. They all do.

[Pacopete4]

=

Do you mean "Executive of the Year" dingbat TT?

are they going to give him an award for idiot of the year this season and the 4-12 season? I mean fair is fair right? He gets awarded for one good year why cant we give him an award for being a complete douche bag moron?

He scrapped the roster to make cap room, and then watched the Packers offense suffer a litany of injuries in that 4-12 season. Blaming TT for that 4-12 season makes about as much sense as blaming Brett Favre for that 4-12 season.

And there's no way he could win that award this year, with Matt Millen still largely responsible for the Lions disaster.


cant we give him the runner up then? Just the notoriety like Favre got for finishing 2nd in MVP voting to Brady last season?

Why?

The biggest decision he made during this past offseason was trading Favre to the Jets. And most would agree that was absolutely the right decision to make at the time. Look at our poll here at PR, or watch FavreSPN, or just go out and mingle with people and ask them.

The second biggest decision he made this past offseason was trading Corey Williams to the Browns. That one looks to have hurt us, but I can't think of a single person that wasn't thrilled to death that we got a second round draft pick for that lazy fat ass. He hasn't done a damn thing since being traded anyway, so it looks like Green Bay made out like a bandit in the deal. There's no way, even now, that I'd trade that second round pick back to the Browns for Williams.

So why the hate? Tracy White? Jon Ryan (under heavy lobbying from the ST coordinator)? The contract extension given to Rodgers? The one given to Grant? Brandon Chillar? Noah Herron? Koren Robinson? Those are the personnel changes from last year to this year. The only bad decision that I can pin on Thompson is Tracy White, and I do hold him responsible for that. But the rest all looked like good moves at the time, and with the benefit of hindsight, all except the Williams trade look to be working out okay. That's far better than my expectations of our GM, because unlike some posters, I don't expect our GM to hit a home run on every decision he makes. I expect he'll make a few bad decisions. They all do.


blah, blah, blah... no reason to dispute u because his 31-33 record speaks for itself..

[texaspackerbacker]

Harrell is down to his final last chance. The size and mobility they originally saw in him should still be there if he can just get over the back thing.

Blaming Thompson for not anticipating that injury is a little off the wall when the back/hip is completely unrelated to the torn bicep he had in college. Some positions are a lot more prone to having busts than others, and D Line, particularly D Tackle, is at the top of the list. Even when they do succeed, they often don't break out until the third or fourth season.

What it boils down to is: we've been unlucky with Harrell up to now. It would really help to suddenly get lucky with him now.

[Fred's Slacks]

blah, blah, blah... no reason to dispute u because his 31-33 record speaks for itself..

Any one who doesn't watch a game or follow one move could make your lame argument. When someone makes a solid, objective argument you just give the record and then blow them off like you've proven something. Well, the record doesn't tell the whole story. Sure he's been responsible for 8-8 and 6-10 but he's also gotten us closer to the big one then anyone since Wolf. Sherman may have had a bunch of winning seasons but he we never gave us a legit shot at a title. TT gave us that shot in his 3rd season. I'd gladly give a couple poor seasons for the shot at a title, instead of treading water and wining the North every year only to bow out to the real contenders in the playoffs.

[Pacopete4]

blah, blah, blah... no reason to dispute u because his 31-33 record speaks for itself..

Any one who doesn't watch a game or follow one move could make your lame argument. When someone makes a solid, objective argument you just give the record and then blow them off like you've proven something. Well, the record doesn't tell the whole story. Sure he's been responsible for 8-8 and 6-10 but he's also gotten us closer to the big one then anyone since Wolf. Sherman may have had a bunch of winning seasons but he we never gave us a legit shot at a title. TT gave us that shot in his 3rd season. I'd gladly give a couple poor seasons for the shot at a title, instead of treading water and wining the North every year only to bow out to the real contenders in the playoffs.


Ive debated him, oh trust me.. we've debated... so now I'm just throwin out the record 31-33... not even fuckin .500... pitiful no matter how u TT lovers wanna write it.. hes a loser

[Lurker64]

Actually, by my reckoning there are three seasons that count on Thompson's record: 8-8, 13-3, and 6-10. The initial season for a GM (particularly a rookie GM) can't be fairly counted against him, since he's basically dealing with the problems the last guy left you.

So Thompson is really 27-21 by my count. Which is pretty good. I don't think "hating your GM" is really a sensible thing to do. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with Ted that means he can't do a good job. So as Packer fans, we really ought to be hoping he does well.

I mean, Thompson has had some success in:
Free Agency (Pickett, Woodson)
The First Round (Rodgers, Hawk)
The Second Round (Jennings, arguably Collins and Colledge)
The Third Round (Spitz, Rouse)
The Fourth Round (Sitton)
The Sixth Round (Crosby, Hall, Jolly)

So really, he's batting 0-fer in the fifth, and we may wish he'd do well more often, but I don't think that "hoping he fails" is something any reasonable person can say. It's like saying "I hope things go bad in the country so the sitting president's party loses the next election", it's just bitter and petty.

[Pacopete4]

Actually, by my reckoning there are three seasons that count on Thompson's record: 8-8, 13-3, and 6-10. The initial season for a GM (particularly a rookie GM) can't be fairly counted against him, since he's basically dealing with the problems the last guy left you.

So Thompson is really 27-21 by my count. Which is pretty good. I don't think "hating your GM" is really a sensible thing to do. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with Ted that means he can't do a good job. So as Packer fans, we really ought to be hoping he does well.

I mean, Thompson has had some success in:
Free Agency (Pickett, Woodson)
The First Round (Rodgers, Hawk)
The Second Round (Jennings, arguably Collins and Colledge)
The Third Round (Spitz, Rouse)
The Fourth Round (Sitton)
The Sixth Round (Crosby, Hall, Jolly)

So really, he's batting 0-fer in the fifth, and we may wish he'd do well more often, but I don't think that "hoping he fails" is something any reasonable person can say. It's like saying "I hope things go bad in the country so the sitting president's party loses the next election", it's just bitter and petty.


I as a TT hater, want the packers to do well.. how can I not? But I've had problems with the way he does things since day one. And then add in the Favre situation and this horrible past season and you get the fierce TT hater that wants him the hell outta GB. It'l take a hell of a lot more than next years 8-8 season to get me to even think about him staying.. but for the majority of people here, it'll buy him another season of wasting our time

[Fred's Slacks]

blah, blah, blah... no reason to dispute u because his 31-33 record speaks for itself..

Any one who doesn't watch a game or follow one move could make your lame argument. When someone makes a solid, objective argument you just give the record and then blow them off like you've proven something. Well, the record doesn't tell the whole story. Sure he's been responsible for 8-8 and 6-10 but he's also gotten us closer to the big one then anyone since Wolf. Sherman may have had a bunch of winning seasons but he we never gave us a legit shot at a title. TT gave us that shot in his 3rd season. I'd gladly give a couple poor seasons for the shot at a title, instead of treading water and wining the North every year only to bow out to the real contenders in the playoffs.


Ive debated him, oh trust me.. we've debated... so now I'm just throwin out the record 31-33... not even fuckin .500... pitiful no matter how u TT lovers wanna write it.. hes a loser

Yeah, I read the debate, and when he came with an argument you couldn't dispute, you just threw the record out there like its the only thing that matters. Its a lame argument.

Sherman was 44-20 in his years as the GM. So if record is the only thing that matters, why is it that Sherman hasn't even gotten a whiff of another GM job?

Look, I'll agree that TT sucks if we go a couple more years with out a legit championship caliber team. I think we had one in 07 and because of that, I am willing to let him do his job without ridiculing the bad moves while ignoring the good.

[Lurker64]

I as a TT hater...

Being a hater of someone who works to help the the team you cheer for do well, is objectively stupid.

[Pacopete4]

I as a TT hater...

Being a hater of someone who works to help the the team you cheer for do well, is objectively stupid.


not at all.. I'm sure that just about everyone on here is a Bush hater, why is it different that I hate Ted Thompson?

[Lurker64]

not at all.. I'm sure that just about everyone on here is a Bush hater, why is it different that I hate Ted Thompson?

I don't hate Bush, George, George W, Jeb, or Jarrett. I certainly wish all of the above had been more successful, but I don't hate them. I think "hating" any of the above is pretty asinine. You might regret one or more, but to hate somebody who has your interests in mind who might not be as successful as you like? Stupid.

Think about it this way. What would you rather have, someone who plays a little bit better than Jarrett Bush, or for Jarrett Bush to start playing much better than he has in the past? What would you rather have, a GM who's slightly better than Ted Thompson to date, or for Ted Thompson to do much better than he has?

That's why hating your own guys is stupid.

[red]

harrell could turn out to be a beast if he can figure out how to stay healthy. he did flash freakish talent when he could get on the field in college

but as of right now, he has missed both his training camps and almost all of his first two seasons

next year will almost be like his rookie year

if he can stay healthy

for me, tt took a massive gamble drafting this guy so high, very big risk vs reward

he could turn out to be a pro bowler, or he could never play a game

[Gunakor]

I as a TT hater...

Being a hater of someone who works to help the the team you cheer for do well, is objectively stupid.


not at all.. I'm sure that just about everyone on here is a Bush hater, why is it different that I hate Ted Thompson?

Because Jarrett Bush doesn't work very hard to help this team... And he's accomplished absolutely nothing during his time in the league.

Do you wish me to bring up the success Ted Thompson has had in the NFL, both here and in Seattle? I can assure you he's worked harder and accomplished more than Jarrett Bush has. Their contributions are extremely unequal. So the comparison is bullshit.

[Pacopete4]

I as a TT hater...

Being a hater of someone who works to help the the team you cheer for do well, is objectively stupid.


not at all.. I'm sure that just about everyone on here is a Bush hater, why is it different that I hate Ted Thompson?

Because Jarrett Bush doesn't work very hard to help this team... And he's accomplished absolutely nothing during his time in the league.

Do you wish me to bring up the success Ted Thompson has had in the NFL, both here and in Seattle? I can assure you he's worked harder and accomplished more than Jarrett Bush has. Their contributions are extremely unequal. So the comparison is bullshit.


Thompson blows... u dont need to throw any crap at me... we wont win while hes here and thats the end of it..

[digitaldean]

I as a TT hater...

Being a hater of someone who works to help the the team you cheer for do well, is objectively stupid.


not at all.. I'm sure that just about everyone on here is a Bush hater, why is it different that I hate Ted Thompson?

Don't generalize too much, there Paco. Just like you generalize about TT.

I've had issue with both, but no hate here for either of them.

[Gunakor]

I as a TT hater...

Being a hater of someone who works to help the the team you cheer for do well, is objectively stupid.


not at all.. I'm sure that just about everyone on here is a Bush hater, why is it different that I hate Ted Thompson?

Because Jarrett Bush doesn't work very hard to help this team... And he's accomplished absolutely nothing during his time in the league.

Do you wish me to bring up the success Ted Thompson has had in the NFL, both here and in Seattle? I can assure you he's worked harder and accomplished more than Jarrett Bush has. Their contributions are extremely unequal. So the comparison is bullshit.


Thompson blows... u dont need to throw any crap at me... we wont win while hes here and thats the end of it..

That's the end of it??

LOL!!

Well, I pray you tell me why exactly, after looking at Thompson's ACTUAL body of work, do you feel that he has NO chance of bringing this team a championship? I mean especially after being so close last year... How could one predict he'll never get back there again. He's been to the conference championship game more than once now, with two completely different teams, all within a 5 year span. And you are convinced he'll never bring us a championship? That's the end of it?!

I chuckled quite a bit at this one. Thank you.

[StPaulPackFan]

I as a TT hater...

Being a hater of someone who works to help the the team you cheer for do well, is objectively stupid.


not at all.. I'm sure that just about everyone on here is a Bush hater, why is it different that I hate Ted Thompson?

Because Jarrett Bush doesn't work very hard to help this team... And he's accomplished absolutely nothing during his time in the league.

Do you wish me to bring up the success Ted Thompson has had in the NFL, both here and in Seattle? I can assure you he's worked harder and accomplished more than Jarrett Bush has. Their contributions are extremely unequal. So the comparison is bullshit.


Thompson blows... u dont need to throw any crap at me... we wont win while hes here and thats the end of it..

It's amazing how you are so sure of an outcome that you have absolutely no control of. I'm sure you're qualified to make such a blanket statement since there is no doubt that your resume is filled with endless successful GM decisions for countless NFL teams :roll:

Even though I'm sure you would make a fine GM for the Packers, I still think I'll stick with TT.

[Pacopete4]

Seattle days

Thompson worked in Seattle along with former Packers and current Seahawks coach Mike Holmgren. During Thompson's five seasons in Seattle, the Seahawks advanced to the playoffs twice. Several players Thompson helped acquire through the draft played key roles on these teams. Some of the notable players Thompson selected in his tenure with the Seahawks were running back Shaun Alexander, kicker Josh Brown, guard Steve Hutchinson, and wide receiver Darrell Jackson, cornerbacks Marcus Trufant and Ken Lucas, safeties Ken Hamlin and Michael Boulware.

Thompson also missed on a number of questionable, at best, first day draft picks in Seattle including: First round pick Chris McIntosh in 2000, second round pick Ike Charlton in 2000, first round pick Koren Robinson in 2001, second round pick Anton Palepoi in 2002, third round pick Kris Richard in 2002, and first round pick Marcus Tubbs in 2004. In 2005, however, following Thompson's departure to the Packers, the Seahawks had their best success in team history, reaching the Super Bowl. Naming Tim Ruskell the new president of football operations, the Seahawks were more aggressive utilizing free agency in 2005. They also were able to re-sign All-Pro left tackle Walter Jones to a multi-year contract, QB Matt Hasselbeck to a long-term contract and able to keep RB Shaun Alexander by declaring him their "franchise player". The 2005 second round draft pick, LB Lofa Tatupu, is credited with bringing the Seattle defense to the next level and helping get the Seahawks to the Super Bowl.


2005 he was with the Pack.. and 2 playoff seasons in 5 years?.... yawn

[Pacopete4]

maybe this is what we now should do... get rid of him now, get another guy that takes chances in here and maybe get to the SB?...

[Gunakor]

Seattle days

Thompson worked in Seattle along with former Packers and current Seahawks coach Mike Holmgren. During Thompson's five seasons in Seattle, the Seahawks advanced to the playoffs twice. Several players Thompson helped acquire through the draft played key roles on these teams. Some of the notable players Thompson selected in his tenure with the Seahawks were running back Shaun Alexander, kicker Josh Brown, guard Steve Hutchinson, and wide receiver Darrell Jackson, cornerbacks Marcus Trufant and Ken Lucas, safeties Ken Hamlin and Michael Boulware.

Thompson also missed on a number of questionable, at best, first day draft picks in Seattle including: First round pick Chris McIntosh in 2000, second round pick Ike Charlton in 2000, first round pick Koren Robinson in 2001, second round pick Anton Palepoi in 2002, third round pick Kris Richard in 2002, and first round pick Marcus Tubbs in 2004. In 2005, however, following Thompson's departure to the Packers, the Seahawks had their best success in team history, reaching the Super Bowl. Naming Tim Ruskell the new president of football operations, the Seahawks were more aggressive utilizing free agency in 2005. They also were able to re-sign All-Pro left tackle Walter Jones to a multi-year contract, QB Matt Hasselbeck to a long-term contract and able to keep RB Shaun Alexander by declaring him their "franchise player". The 2005 second round draft pick, LB Lofa Tatupu, is credited with bringing the Seattle defense to the next level and helping get the Seahawks to the Super Bowl.


2005 he was with the Pack.. and 2 playoff seasons in 5 years?.... yawn

Read the list of players YOU have mentioned in this post as being Thompson's notable selections while in Seattle. That's the core of the team there buddy. Where has that team gone since Hutchinson left? I'll bet they miss Hamlin too, though he wasn't exempt from the Cowboys collapse this year.

Shawn Alexander was the NFL MVP that year, was he not? Funny, his first ever draft pick as GM for the Packers had MVP numbers this year too - just ask the guy who actually won the award. Boy, this Thompson guy really knows how to pick em. Most GM's wouldn't be able to shake a stick at Thompson's draft record. Seriously. I think you are being a little hard on him, expecting too much.

[Gunakor]

maybe this is what we now should do... get rid of him now, get another guy that takes chances in here and maybe get to the SB?...

And then what? Disappear like the Seahawks did? No thanks. They did worse than us this year, even less time removed from greatness. You can point to the excessive use of FA the year after TT left as a pretty good reason that happened. Injuries certainly played a part as well, but that team stunk even before their litany of injuries.

A Super Bowl appearance is not worth the collapse of a team shortly after. I want to get there as bad as anyone. But I want to stay there. Like the Packers from the mid to late 90's. They didn't win it every year, but they were always in the discussion. That's what I want. Not teams like the Ravens, the Bucs, or the Seahawks that make an appearance and then disappear again.