Packerrats Big Board Draft Project

[Lurker64]

For Packer fans, "look forward to the offseason" time started weeks ago, and as the weeks roll on we get closer and closer to the draft. Personally, one of the most interesting things about the draft is how guys stocks rise and fall with the combine, the senior bowl, good news, bad news, lack of news, rumor, pro days, etc.

So in the interest of doing this, I think it would be interesting for each of us to track our "big boards", that is our rankings of players we want the Packers to draft. Now, none of us are professional scouts, and it's sort of unreasonable for us to rank hundreds of players, but since we're drafting at #9 I think a good compromise would be to rank our top 10 players, since we're guaranteed to have a shot at drafting someone in each of our top tens.

So, to participate, please post the top ten guys you would like to draft (in order of picking them). IF you can't do a full top ten, list as many as you can (in order of preference.)

As the offseason progresses, and your rankings change? Great. Just post a new list. The more the merrier. If you leave your old lists up, instead of editing, we can all track the progression of our opinions.

If we get enough lists, I'll try to post a composite list that averages all of our rankings. I think that could be entertaining.

Keep in mind that we're ranking the top 10 players we want the Packers to pick. If you think Matt Stafford is the best player in the draft, but you wouldn't want the Packers to pick him at any point on the first day, don't put him down.

[Lurker64]

My personal top 10 (01/04/09)

1) Aaron Curry, SLB Wake Forest.
2) Brian Orakpo, DE Texas.
3) Michael Oher, OT Ole Miss
4) B.J. Raji, DT Boston College.
5) Jason Smith, OT Baylor
6) Terrence Cody, DT Alabama (Underclassman)
7) Taylor Mays, S USC (Underclassman)
8) Malcom Jenkins, CB Ohio State
9) Tyson Jackson DE/DT LSU
10) Peria Jerry, DT Ole Miss

[Pacopete4]

Are we going top 10 players for our #9 pick, or just players we want the packers to draft no matter which round they are in?

[Lurker64]

Are we going top 10 players for our #9 pick, or just players we want the packers to draft no matter which round they are in?

I was thinking "In the first round." It's essentially impossible to predict who's going to be there in the 2nd round, or the 3rd round, etc. So just put the 10 guys you want the most, and if some of them are still there in the 2nd, great!

Anyway, if you put down the ten guys you like the most, you should be happy if any of them are picked at #9.

[Pacopete4]

Are we going top 10 players for our #9 pick, or just players we want the packers to draft no matter which round they are in?

I was thinking "In the first round." It's essentially impossible to predict who's going to be there in the 2nd round, or the 3rd round, etc. So just put the 10 guys you want the most, and if some of them are still there in the 2nd, great!

Anyway, if you put down the ten guys you like the most, you should be happy if any of them are picked at #9.

ok, cool... I actually just started looking at mock drafts today. Thanks!

[Brando19]

Ok...mine may be a little far fetched...but it'd be awesome if a few fell to us.

1. James Laurinaitis, LB
2. Malcolm Jenkins, CB
3. Brian Orakpo, DE
4. Michael Crabtree, WR
5. Michael Johnson, DE
6. Eugene Monroe, OT
7. Rey Maualuga, LB
8. Michael Oher, OT
9. Shonn Greene, RB
10. Tim Tebow, QB

I know there's not a need for a QB, but Tebow would be really hard to pass up. If Aaron would get hurt, Tebow would be able to go in and get it done, IMO. Shonn Greene, that's if TT trades down (very likely.)

[Joemailman]

1) Andre Smith OT Alabama

2) Brian Orakpo DE Texas

3) Michael Oher OT Ole Miss

4) Jason Smith OT Baylor

5) Aaron Curry LB Wake Forest

6) Taylor Mays S USC

7) Michael Johnson DE Georgia Tech

8) Eugene Monroe OT Virginia

9) Ray Maualuga LB USC

10) Tyson jackson DE LSU

[DonHutson]

1. Aaron Curry (OLB) Wake Forest - probably gone

2. Malcolm Jenkins (CB) Ohio State - probably gone

*3. Eugene Monroe (LT) Virginia - possibly gone

*4. Jason Smith (LT) Baylor - slightly undersized former TE, if that's not a Ted OL, I don't know who is

*5. Gerald McCoy (DT) Oklahoma - I'd like to see some confirmation that he's a legit top ten talent, and not just the most buzz-worthy of a mediocre crop of DT's

6. Everette Brown (DE) Florida State

7. Jermaine Gresham (TE) Oklahoma

8. Michael Oher (RT) Mississippi - we won't take him because he doesn't fit our system, but he's the type of ass-kicking RT we could use

9. Taylor Mays (S) Southern Cal

10. Knowshon Moreno (RB) Georgia

* most likely picks, IMO

[Charles Woodson]

1. Aaron Curry (OLB) Wake Forest - probably gone

2. Malcolm Jenkins (CB) Ohio State - probably gone

*3. Eugene Monroe (LT) Virginia - possibly gone

*4. Jason Smith (LT) Baylor - slightly undersized former TE, if that's not a Ted OL, I don't know who is

*5. Gerald McCoy (DT) Oklahoma - I'd like to see some confirmation that he's a legit top ten talent, and not just the most buzz-worthy of a mediocre crop of DT's

6. Everette Brown (DE) Florida State

7. Jermaine Gresham (TE) Oklahoma

8. Michael Oher (RT) Mississippi - we won't take him because he doesn't fit our system, but he's the type of ass-kicking RT we could use

9. Taylor Mays (S) Southern Cal

10. Knowshon Moreno (RB) Georgia

* most likely picks, IMO

looks good, i would also add in Terence Cody the nose tackle from Alabama, it would be sick to get him.. the guys a mountain

[red]

hmm

i'll put a few of the top guys in order

1.orakpo
2. everette brown
3. mt cody
4. mays
5. jenkins
6. EUGENE MONROE
7. ANDRE SMITH
8. luga

in the second round i would look for a guy like raji or tyson jackson to fall around that pick

[DonHutson]

in the second round i would look for a guy like raji or tyson jackson to fall around that pick

Jackson in the 2nd would be excellent Cullen Jenkins health insurance. We need someone outside who can play the run when/if Jenkins isn't available. He's big enough he could probably add some depth at DT too. I'd love that pick if he's still there.

[Partial]

Far too soon for a big board.

With that said, the bowl games have turned me off from the Alabama LT, Everette Brown, Mount Cody.

[Charles Woodson]

Far too soon for a big board.

With that said, the bowl games have turned me off from the Alabama LT, Everette Brown, Mount Cody.
the first person on your list prooves your lack of research... Andre Smith, Alabmas real LT was suspended for the game.
Brown had a good game, idk why you keep saying he got shut down

[Lurker64]

Far too soon for a big board.

That's the point. We're all going to want different people in March than we want in January. It's not as though you're not actively encouraged to submit multiple lists as the offseason progresses.

[Joemailman]

in the second round i would look for a guy like raji or tyson jackson to fall around that pick

Jackson in the 2nd would be excellent Cullen Jenkins health insurance. We need someone outside who can play the run when/if Jenkins isn't available. He's big enough he could probably add some depth at DT too. I'd love that pick if he's still there.

I don't think there is any way Jackson makes it to the 2nd round. He has the size to play DE in a 3-4, or play DT/DE in a 4-3.

[Partial]

Far too soon for a big board.

With that said, the bowl games have turned me off from the Alabama LT, Everette Brown, Mount Cody.
the first person on your list prooves your lack of research... Andre Smith, Alabmas real LT was suspended for the game.
Brown had a good game, idk why you keep saying he got shut down

That probably explains why I was not impressed or did not know his name.

I just knew they had a highly ranked LT, and I saw their LT get beat by a little guy on the edge more than a few times.

I don't think Brown had a very good game. That's the beauty of opinions. Everyone has one. Agree to disagree, I guess.

[jmbarnes101]

I'll give it a go. Other than Crabtree and Mays every player is at a position I would like to see upgraded.

1. Aaron Curry - LB Wake Forest
2. Malcolm Jenkins - CB Ohio St.
3. Brian Orakpo - DE Texas
4. Andre Smith - OT Alabama
5. Eugene Monroe - OT Virginia
6. Matt Shaughnessy - DE Wisconsin - way too early I know, but I believe he has a chance to be an outstanding DE
7. Jermaine Gresham - TE Oklahoma
8. Taylor Mays - S USC
9. Michael Crabtree - WR Texas
10. Michael Oher - OT Mississippi

Honorable Mentions for later rounds:
Graham Gano - K/P Florida St. - 5th/6th round to be our punter - emergency K
DeAndre Levy - OLB Wisconsin
Jonathan Casillas - OLB Wisconsin - The last of Barry's guys

[PackerPro42]

1. Brian Orakpo, DE, Texas
2. Aaron Curry, OLB, Wake Forest
3. Michael Oher, OT, Ole Miss
4. Malcolm Jenkins, CB, Ohio State
5. Jason Smith, OT, Baylor
6. Rey Maualuga, MLB, USC
7. Michael Johnson, DE/OLB, Georgia Tech
8. Taylor Mays, S, USC
9. Terrence Cody, DT, Alabama
10. B.J. Raji, DT, Boston College

[Bretsky]

OK, I'll give this a shot in NO PARTICULAR ORDER

1 Aaron Curry
2 Brian Orakpo
3 Taylor Mays
4 Ray Mauluga
5 Michael Crabtree
6 Malcolm Jenkins
7 Terrence Cody
8. Everette Brown
9. Michael Johnson

10. And the final selection is in honor the Bikini Girls........who want...a big....leg

Ladies and Gentlemen, Meet our New Punter !!!!!!

10. Kevin Huber

INCINNATI – Senior punter Kevin Huber (Cincinnati, Ohio/McNicholas) was named to the Football Writers Association of America all-America Team Saturday.

The FWAA All-America team, the second longest continuously published team in major college football was announced during a one-hour show on ABC that was sponsored by AT&T. The FWAA has named an All-America team in some form since 1944.

It is the second-straight season UC has had a player honored on the FWAA team. Mike Mickens was a first-team honoree a year ago.

It is Huber’s third all-America honor of the postseason as he was named First-Team all-America by Rivals.com and earned a spot on the American Football Coaches Association All-American squad. He was also a First-Team All-BIG EAST selection.

Huber leads the BIG EAST and ranks seventh nationally with a 44.9 yards per punt average. He has a long kick of 64 yards in 2008, 21 punts inside the 20 and 18 kicks of 50 yards or more. Only two of his 56 kicks this season have been touchbacks.

Stats Overview Punting
YEAR PUNTS AVG LNG YDS TB TB% IN20 IN20% RET YDS AVG NET

2007 57 46.9 62 2672
2008 60 45.0 64 2697


THIS GUY IS A WEAPON !!

[red]

that guy was friggen awesome

i wouldn't mind seeing us draft him sometime after the 4th round

not to mention in their bowl game the guy put like 3 punts inside the 1 yard line or something insane

[Pack-man]

1. Rey Maualuga, MLB, USC
2. Brian Orakpo, DE/LB, Tex
3. Michael Johnson DE, G.T.
4. Taylor Mays, S, USC
5. Tyson Jackson, DL, LSU
6. Malcom Jenkins, CB, OSU
7. Jason Smith, OT, Baylor
8. Aaron Curry, LB, WF

[chain_gang]

Alright, it's still pretty early for this and who knows who'll actually declare, but here's my top 5 and a couple sleepers I like in Round 2 or later.

1. Taylor Mays- For people wondering if he can play coverage, he's the the deep guy on most plays, their Centerfielder. He's the main reason teams don't take deep shots on USC's D. He can lay the wood and has great closing speed. If we hire Mike Nolan I could see the his Big Nickel Package consisting of 3 safeties(Collins, Mays, Rouse), which I think could have the potential to turn into one hell of a package on D.

2. Michael Oher- I like him a lot more than Andre Smith, If he is their at #9 I think landed the best Tackle in the Draft, and someone else can worry about Andre Smith's struggles in pass protection.

3. Brian Orakpo- Hell of a pass rusher, with a great burst. Should be a great Pass rusher, but with the #9 pick hopefully he'd turn out to be a 3 down player.

4. Vontae Davis- I know most like Malcolm Jenkins as the No. 1 CB is this draft, but I don't see where he has an advantage over Vontae except in the run support area. Davis has great speed, has can bring some more attitude to our defense. We passed on one VD already, but this is the Good kind of VD, and I would be more than happy to have this VD in GB.

5. Rey Maualuga- Has the potential to be an impact linebacker, and will likely be gone by the Packers Selection, the main question on him is can he become a leader at a position that usually requires it in the NFL.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last year I pimped up Rodgers-Cromartie during the last part of the regular season, and all offseason. Well, this year I found my new Fascination, and this guy is a DRC clone, minus a dash of speed. Domonique Johnson, CB, Jackson State, is 6'2 190lbs, and is suppose to run a 4.35 40. The past 2 seasons he has 10 INTs, after having to sit out a season due to his transfer from Missouri. He's a player to keep an eye on during the offseason workouts.

I have one more that I would like to see, but overall I just believe it is a huge team need. We lack a Speedster in our backfield, you know the type, the type that makes opposing teams cringe on trying to find out how to cover this guy out of the backfield or that they have to make sure that they know where he's at on the field. Enter Devin Moore, RB, Wyoming. At 5'9 190lbs he more than likely will never be an every down back, but he'd be one hell of a matchup nightmare for opposing teams. He may be this years version of Chris Johnson, from a smaller school, but he can flat out fly. This would help a lot on our screen game, and also our Kickoff return game. We need a gamebreaker on offense and he's a threat to take it the distance every time he touches the ball. The offseason workouts will be huge for him, he needs to prove that he can be a reliable receiver out of the backfield, that said I wouldn't mind taking him in the 4th round or with our second third round pick.

[Pack-man]

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Rey-Maualuga-smooth-operator-just-don-t-tell-E?urn=ncaaf,131994

Nice move Rey!

[TennesseePackerBacker]

I have one more that I would like to see, but overall I just believe it is a huge team need. We lack a Speedster in our backfield, you know the type, the type that makes opposing teams cringe on trying to find out how to cover this guy out of the backfield or that they have to make sure that they know where he's at on the field. Enter Devin Moore, RB, Wyoming. At 5'9 190lbs he more than likely will never be an every down back, but he'd be one hell of a matchup nightmare for opposing teams. He may be this years version of Chris Johnson, from a smaller school, but he can flat out fly. This would help a lot on our screen game, and also our Kickoff return game. We need a gamebreaker on offense and he's a threat to take it the distance every time he touches the ball. The offseason workouts will be huge for him, he needs to prove that he can be a reliable receiver out of the backfield, that said I wouldn't mind taking him in the 4th round or with our second third round pick.

I agree wholeheartedly with the need for an explosive player at RB and also endorse Devin Moore. I had no idea who he was until I saw him rip Tennessee's very good defense last year. He seriously draws comparisons to Brian Westbrook.

[chain_gang]

I agree wholeheartedly with the need for an explosive player at RB and also endorse Devin Moore. I had no idea who he was until I saw him rip Tennessee's very good defense last year. He seriously draws comparisons to Brian Westbrook.

Yeah, the main thing question I have is as a receiver out of the backfield but he had 60+ receptions throughout his career, so I think he should be fine. The Westbrook comparison is a good one, I remember Moore had one hell of a game against San Diego St., I know their not a top team but he definitely showed his playmaking skills in that game, and in the Tennessee game he was just solid, may not have had a ton a yards, but he showed he could play with the against tougher competition.

[jmbarnes101]

Alright, it's still pretty early for this and who knows who'll actually declare, but here's my top 5 and a couple sleepers I like in Round 2 or later.

4. Vontae Davis- I know most like Malcolm Jenkins as the No. 1 CB is this draft, but I don't see where he has an advantage over Vontae except in the run support area. Davis has great speed, has can bring some more attitude to our defense. We passed on one VD already, but this is the Good kind of VD, and I would be more than happy to have this VD in GB.


Like the other VD though this one is supposedly a head case and doesn't take coaching very well. I don't know him but from what I've heard he's not a Packer player and I don't think they'd look at him.

[Lurker64]

Very preliminary Packerrats top 13 (based on rankings by ten posters)
1) Brian Orakpo DE, Texas.
2) Aaron Curry, SLB Wake Forest
3) Malcom Jenkins, CB Ohio State
4) Taylor Mays, S USC
5) Michael Oher, OT Ole Miss
6) Rey Maualuga, ILB USC
7) Jason Smith, OT Baylor
8) Eugene Monroe, OT Virginia
9) Michael Johnson, DE Georgia Tech
10) Andre Smith, OT Alabama
11) Terrence Cody, DT Alabama
12) Everette Brown, DE Florida State
13) Michael Crabtree, WR Texas Tech

Rankings are compiled by: every first place vote a player receives is worth 10 points, every second place 9 points, etc. Total points for a player are summed, and ranked from top to bottom. I cut off the list at 13 now since 14 was the highest ranked player that was supported by only one of ten posters, while each of the top 13 made the top ten of at least 30% of those doing rankings.

Interestingly, no player made everybody's top 10 list, while two players (Brian Orakpo and Taylor Mays) made 9 of the 10 lists. The player most often picked as #1 was Aaron Curry.

This is pretty silly without more lists, so I encourage everybody to participate. Even if you think your list will be silly. Especially if you think your list will be silly. In a year, this will be much more fun to look at if we're all terribly wrong at this point.

[DonHutson]

Thanks for putting in the effort on the rankings, Lurker. It's a good early overview.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

Ok ok, I'll make a list..without the combine it's really tough to tell where a player might go.

1. Aaron Curry
2. Rey Malualuga
3. Jason Smith
4. Taylor Mays
5. Michael Oher
6. Michael Johnson
7. B. J. Raji
8. Brian Orakapo
9. Knowshon Moreno
10. Eugene Monroe

First off, I dont think either of the top 2 cb's this year will become a difference maker. Also, I believe the draft will be much deeper this year than previous. While it's fun to think about the top pick, Ted has a chance to really get some talent deep in to the middle rounds.

[Deputy Nutz]

Good job Lurker,

Here is my top ten, and with most of these guys the are so highly ranked that unless they get arrested or totally bomb in the combine most of them will be in the top ten or worst top 20.

1. Brian Orakpo DE Texas, The Packers are weak at defensive end. Jenkins has not been healthy since he has been the starter. Jenkins is a good football player when healthy and does a nice job at taking up blockers in the running game and allowing AJ Hawk freedom to make tackles. Without Jenkins Hawk had a miserable time at weakside linebacker. Orakpo is a workout demon who might be more bark than bite if you are going off his career totals. Up until this year he has had 10.5 total sacks. He is a bit undersized at 260 pounds, but he is about 6-4 which might allow 10 or 15 more pounds, but if the Packers do move to a 3-4 defense he does have the ability to possibly move outside to a rush linebacker spot.

2. Ray Maualuga ILB USC, He is higher on this list if the Packers move to a 3-4. They would need a big nasty inside linebacker that can take on lead blockers and still make plays. Right now the Packers have no one on the roster that fills the ability to stone an offensive linemen or a fullback in the hole and make the tackle. Maualuga is also athletic enough to play a decent zone coverage, but if the Packers moved to a nickel he most likely would be the first linebacker on the side line.

3. Micheal Oher OT Ole' Miss, Big freakish athletic tackle that could take over on the right side of the line in 2008. He was the subject of a book written by Micheal Lewis called "Blind Side". Naturally gifted football player, but the game might not come as fast to him mentally as it does physically, so although he might be ready for prime time he might not have the playbook completely digested

4. Tyson Jackson DE LSU, Again if the Packers move towards a 3-4 he is a prototypical end for the system. He is 6-5 and 290 pounds, and can take on blockers in a way a defensive tackle can. He is someone that isn't going to make his paycheck in rushing the passer, but he will stand sturdy against the run and allow the linebackers to make plays.

5. Micheal Crabtree WR Texas Tech, He most likely will be coming out this year and he is by far the most talented offensive weapon in this draft. The Packers have no need for another wide receiver, but even Ted Thompson couldn't pass on this player if he lasts to number 9.

6. Aaron Curry LB Wake Forest, Curry is an athlete with size and flexibility at the linebacker spot that might have the ability to play inside or outside in either the 3-4 or 4-3. If the Packers stay in a 4-3 they might not use their 9th pick on a linebacker.

7. Malcolm Jenkins CB Ohio St, The Packers have a some young depth in their secondary but Jenkins is everything you want in a corner, he has size, he has agility, toughness, and speed. Jenkins might just be too good to pass up considering after Harris and Woodson no other cornerback on the roster has proven capable of starting consistently.

8. Eugene Monroe OT Virginia, The Packers eventually will need replacements at RT and LT but does Ted Thompson value offensive linemen enough to spend a high draft pick on a sure deal rather than consistently using late round picks on developmental projects. Monroe is a big road grader type of linemen that is most likely going to make it in the pros as a left tackle.

9. Micheal Johnson DE Georgia Tech, He is a project with great upside but production numbers at the college level just don't quite match up to his physical abilities. He might be hard to pass up, especially if the Packers stay with the 4-3 defense. Johnson is tall at 6-7, and certainly could add weight but as far as a 3-4 end he is just too lean at this time for him to hold up at the point of attack.

10. William Moore SS Mizz, Big and physical safety that could make his living being the 8th man in the box, but then you look at his INT numbers and recognize that he picked off 8 passes in 2007. He is one of those safeties that can just about do it all. The Packer have yet to solidify their safety position outside of Nick Collins. Bigby has been hurt for all of 2008 and Rouse was also hit by the injury bug. Neither one has proven themselves as full time starter in 2009.

[Lurker64]

Well, we now know which Juniors are coming out, and so pretty much every board thus far needs to be thrown out. So I think this is a good milestone to bump this thread and gauge the barometer of Packerrats.

If you weren't paying attention, the following underclassmen have declared for the draft:

Mark Sanchez
Matt Stafford
Percy Harvin
Knowshon Moreno
Darius Heyward-Bey
PJ Hill
Gerald McRath
Jeremy Maclin
Hakeem Nicks
Everette Brown
Chris Beanie Wells
Michael Crabtree
LeSean McCoy
Austin Collie
Glen Coffee
Paul Kruger
Brandon Williams
Sean Smith
Aaron Maybin
Nate Davis
Josh Freeman
Donald Brown
Shonn Green
Brandon Mason
Kenny Britt
Kevin Ogletree
Andre Smith
Eben Britton
Greg Isdaner
James Casey
Jared Cook
Andrew Davie
Chris Baker
Ricky Jean-Francois
Sen'Derrick Marks
Vontae Davis
DJ Moore
Captain Munnerlyn
Jerraud Powers
Emmanuel Cook
Anthony Reddick
Asher Allen
Brandon LaFell
CJ Spiller

So if you're putting together your top 10, don't put any underclassmen on it that aren't on this list. I'll put up mine in a bit, but I figured I'd get the "here are this juniors this year" info out.

[Partial]

This draft is pretty good. It could have been freakishly good like the '06 draft if Bradford, Tebow, that TE, McCoy, Spikes, etc declared.

[steve823]

im hoping for either orakpo, jenkins, or a soild tackle. I was reading somewhere that orakpo reminds a lot of people like mario williams. Obviously he probably isnt going to be as good buty just to draw that comparison means he has to be pretty decent.

[rbaloha1]

im hoping for either orakpo, jenkins, or a soild tackle. I was reading somewhere that orakpo reminds a lot of people like mario williams. Obviously he probably isnt going to be as good buty just to draw that comparison means he has to be pretty decent.

Be careful about comparisons. Comparing Orakpo with Williams is a stretch.

But maybe the Lions evaluation says this. lol. Wasn't Hawk compared to Urlacher prior to the draft?

[Lurker64]

New top 10 (Lurker64) 1/15/09

1) Aaron Curry, SLB, Wake Forest.
2) Jason Smith, OT, Baylor.
3) B.J. Raji, NT/DT, Boston College
4) Eugene Monroe, OT, Virginia
5) Brian Orakpo, DE, Texas
6) Knowshon Moreno, RB, Georgia
7) Malcom Jenkins, CB, Ohio State
8) Michael Oher, OT, Ole Miss
9) Tyson Jackson, DE/DT LSU
10) Everette Brown, DE/OLB, FSU.

[rbaloha1]

New top 10 (Lurker64) 1/15/09

1) Aaron Curry, SLB, Wake Forest.
2) Jason Smith, OT, Baylor.
3) B.J. Raji, NT/DT, Boston College
4) Andre Smith, OT, Virginia
5) Brian Orakpo, DE, Texas
6) Knowshon Moreno, RB, Georgia
7) Malcom Jenkins, CB, Ohio State
8) Michael Oher, OT, Ole Miss
9) Tyson Jackson, DE/DT LSU
10) Everette Brown, DE/OLB, FSU.

Interesting list. Is #4 the Alabama left tackle? Curious no Crabtree. Curious why Jason Smith and Raji are ranked in their perspective slots.

[Partial]

B.J. Raji doesn't seem long enough to play with a lot of leverage. Most NT are in the 6-3 to 6-4 range. I've heard he's really about 6'0" instead of the 6'1" he's listed at. I'm not confident he's tall enough or has long enough arms to overpower one guy and require a double team.

[Lurker64]

Interesting list. Is #4 the Alabama left tackle? Curious no Crabtree. Curious why Jason Smith and Raji are ranked in their perspective slots.

I meant to put Eugene Monroe instead of Andre Smith, I had the right school and position, just the wrong guy. I'm not too fond of Andre Smith. Crabtree isn't on my top 10 list since I can't imagine a scenario in which he falls to 10 (with Kansas City, Seattle, Oakland, and Jacksonville all picking ahead of us and needing WRs), so I didn't consider him. Smith, I think, is a perfect fit for the system and has amazing footwork. He's definitely the best fit for this team and this scheme. Raji is a player I like, he's got a great quick step, and a very low center of gravity. He's oddly shaped for a DT, but he's powerful and has a good pass-rush since he gets under everybody's pads, and he can occupy multiple blockers. Excellent instincts and awareness as well. I just think he's an intriguing prospect and a good fit.

Also, the intent of this thread was to get everybody to submit their own personal top 10 lists, several times over. So why don't you submit your own?

[rbaloha1]

Interesting list. Is #4 the Alabama left tackle? Curious no Crabtree. Curious why Jason Smith and Raji are ranked in their perspective slots.

I meant to put Eugene Monroe instead of Andre Smith, I had the right school and position, just the wrong guy. I'm not too fond of Andre Smith. Crabtree isn't on my top 10 list since I can't imagine a scenario in which he falls to 10 (with Kansas City, Seattle, Oakland, and Jacksonville all picking ahead of us and needing WRs), so I didn't consider him. Smith, I think, is a perfect fit for the system and has amazing footwork. He's definitely the best fit for this team and this scheme. Raji is a player I like, he's got a great quick step, and a very low center of gravity. He's oddly shaped for a DT, but he's powerful and has a good pass-rush since he gets under everybody's pads, and he can occupy multiple blockers. Excellent instincts and awareness as well. I just think he's an intriguing prospect and a good fit.

Also, the intent of this thread was to get everybody to submit their own personal top 10 lists, several times over. So why don't you submit your own?

Misunderstood the list. Andre Smith and Curry are most likely gone.

I have watched Andre Smith play in person -- excellent and dominating player. Started from day one at Alabama Look what happened in the Sugar Bowl w/o Smith -- Alabama's offense was bad. Mark May stated he is the best left tackle prospect since Ogden.

Does Raji remind you of Sapp at all?

Unable to submit a list since I did not watch some of the top players in actual games.

[Waldo]

B.J. Raji doesn't seem long enough to play with a lot of leverage. Most NT are in the 6-3 to 6-4 range. I've heard he's really about 6'0" instead of the 6'1" he's listed at. I'm not confident he's tall enough or has long enough arms to overpower one guy and require a double team.

Most NT are actually 6'0" to 6'2"

BJ Raji is a Vince Wilfork clone physically, and in game production. Difference is Wilfork had pretty big character red flags coming out, combine Jennings and Gado to get Raji's character. He is Packer people in every sense of the phrase. A real good kid and very hard worker.

[RashanGary]

Aaron Curry
Eugene Monroe
Andre Smith
Michael Crabtree
Everette Brown
Knowshon Moreno
BJ Raji
Jason Smith
Terrence Cody
Malcom Jenkins


These are the guys I feel pretty good about.

EDIT: Changed Jeremy Maclin (not enough show of good hands to me) for Knowshon Moreno (reminds me a little of LT with the way he runs).

[Lurker64]

Aaron Curry
Eugene Monroe
Andre Smith
Michael Crabtree
Everette Brown
Jeremy Maclin
BJ Raji
Jason Smith
Terrence Cody


These are the guys I feel pretty good about.

Cody is a Junior, and he hasn't (to my knowledge) declared.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

B.J. Raji doesn't seem long enough to play with a lot of leverage. Most NT are in the 6-3 to 6-4 range. I've heard he's really about 6'0" instead of the 6'1" he's listed at. I'm not confident he's tall enough or has long enough arms to overpower one guy and require a double team.

Most NT are actually 6'0" to 6'2"

BJ Raji is a Vince Wilfork clone physically, and in game production. Difference is Wilfork had pretty big character red flags coming out, combine Jennings and Gado to get Raji's character. He is Packer people in every sense of the phrase. A real good kid and very hard worker.

I'd love to see the pack trade back a 4-5 slots and grab Raji/J.Smith. Raji certainly isn't "mis-shapen" as a defensive tackle either. Most are around the 6'-6'2" range and have to be quick with a low center of gravity.

[Partial]

Most NT are actually 6'0" to 6'2"

Jason Ferguson - 6'3"
Kris Jenkins - 6'4"
Shaun Rogers - 6'4"
Pat Williams - 6'3"
Dusty Dvoracek - 6'4"
Travis Johnson - 6'3"
John Henderson - 6'7"
Albert Haynesworth - 6'6"
Jay Ratliff - 6'4"
Marcus Stroud - 6'6"
Barry Cofield - 6'4"
Aubrayo Franklin - 6'1"
Bryan Robinson - 6'4"
Vince Wilfolk - 6'2"
Jamal Williams - 6'4"
Trevor Pryce - 6'5"
Casey Hampton - 6'1"

NFL Rosters disagree. These are all the guys that line up as a nose tackle.

I haven't seen enough of Raji to make a comparison, but I just don't see it being very likely based on his length. 6 flat is really short for an NT. He'd have to have freakishly long arms for his size to play with any sort of leverage.

[RashanGary]

NFL Rosters disagree. These are all the guys that line up as a nose tackle.

I haven't seen enough of Raji to make a comparison, but I just don't see it being very likely based on his length. 6 flat is really short for an NT. He'd have to have freakishly long arms for his size to play with any sort of leverage.

Shorter = better leverage

Short guys have a natural advantage with leverage. Tall guys need to learn how to really use it to be effective and need more muscle/size to play at the same level of practical strength.

[Partial]

NFL Rosters disagree. These are all the guys that line up as a nose tackle.

I haven't seen enough of Raji to make a comparison, but I just don't see it being very likely based on his length. 6 flat is really short for an NT. He'd have to have freakishly long arms for his size to play with any sort of leverage.

Shorter = better leverage

Short guys have a natural advantage with leverage. Tall guys need to learn how to use it and need more muscle/size to play at the same level of practical strength.

Shorter does not equal better leverage... what are earth are you talking about? Natural leverage... not really... The big, tall guy is going to blow them off the line play after play because they have longer arms and are likely naturally stronger.

That's just crazy talk and would straight up defy most laws of physics. Have you ever arm wrestled or regular wrestled anyone taller than you? My guess is you didn't win.

While it's true you want to get lower than the opposition, there is a reason most of the dominant linemen are big guys. Look at the best ends and best DT/NTs in the league. They're big, tall guys.

[RashanGary]

I hope you're kidding, partial.

[rbaloha1]

I hope you're kidding, partial.

Basic line play -- low man wins.

Warren Sapp had tremendous success due to being short thus leverage. Suggest watching Ed Sabol special on Warren Sapp and listen to Sapp explain being short and leverage.

[Lurker64]

You get better leverage by getting lower than the other guy, since if your center of gravity is lower than his, you're going to have an easier time knocking him off balance. If you naturally have a lower center of gravity, you have an advantage here regardless of stance and technique. More to the point, if the person who's pushing against you is pushing down and forward, and you're pushing forward, both of you expending equal force, you're going to knock him over, since a portion of their energy is going to be devoted to trying to push you through the earth, which is obviously not going to happen.

If you're talking about offensive tackles (and defensive ends), where leverage is required to control and direct people to and away from specific areas of the field, then yes 6'0" is too short. Though the same could be said about people like Sam Baker who, though tall, has tiny useless tyrannosaur arms. But playing NT is a different game entirely. Your job is to be able to push the other person backwards, and to be able to hold your ground. In both cases, a lower center of gravity is useful.

Raji will, however, have trouble batting down passes at the line of scrimmage. But if he can hold the point, and collapse the pocket (he can), that's good enough.

Lists anybody?

[Waldo]

Most NT are actually 6'0" to 6'2"

Jason Ferguson - 6'3"
Kris Jenkins - 6'4"
Shaun Rogers - 6'4"
Pat Williams - 6'3"
Dusty Dvoracek - 6'4"
Travis Johnson - 6'3"
John Henderson - 6'7"
Albert Haynesworth - 6'6"
Jay Ratliff - 6'4"
Marcus Stroud - 6'6"
Barry Cofield - 6'4"
Aubrayo Franklin - 6'1"
Bryan Robinson - 6'4"
Vince Wilfolk - 6'2"
Jamal Williams - 6'4"
Trevor Pryce - 6'5"
Casey Hampton - 6'1"

NFL Rosters disagree. These are all the guys that line up as a nose tackle.

I haven't seen enough of Raji to make a comparison, but I just don't see it being very likely based on his length. 6 flat is really short for an NT. He'd have to have freakishly long arms for his size to play with any sort of leverage.

Mike Patterson is 6'0", Ryan Pickett is 6'2"

The short guys (especially the wrestling trained ones like Raji) play with much better pad level, guys lower to the ground are harder to push back, he whose pads are lower wins 90% of the time. Long arms are for rushing the passer, low pads are for winning the battle in the run game.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

NFL Rosters disagree. These are all the guys that line up as a nose tackle.

I haven't seen enough of Raji to make a comparison, but I just don't see it being very likely based on his length. 6 flat is really short for an NT. He'd have to have freakishly long arms for his size to play with any sort of leverage.

Shorter = better leverage

Short guys have a natural advantage with leverage. Tall guys need to learn how to use it and need more muscle/size to play at the same level of practical strength.

Shorter does not equal better leverage... what are earth are you talking about? Natural leverage... not really... The big, tall guy is going to blow them off the line play after play because they have longer arms and are likely naturally stronger.

That's just crazy talk and would straight up defy most laws of physics. Have you ever arm wrestled or regular wrestled anyone taller than you? My guess is you didn't win.

While it's true you want to get lower than the opposition, there is a reason most of the dominant linemen are big guys. Look at the best ends and best DT/NTs in the league. They're big, tall guys.

Did you ever even play football or wrestle? A short stocky guy can hold leverage like a tree stump.

[RashanGary]

Furhter, if someone is pushing down and forward, that means the opposite force is up and backward (relatively speaking).

Think about what an upward force does for your abilty to stay anchored to the ground. It's not good.


Isn't Pat Williams about 6'1"? (edit, he's 6'3" but with his weight and power and experience using leverage he's about ideal for a run stuffer).

I'm OK with 6'1" though. If the guy can carry weight at that height and he's powerfull then you can't complain. He's definitly going to stay anchored (unlike Harrell).

[BZnDallas]

1. BJ Raji
2. Aaron Curry
3. Brian Orakpo
4. Jason Smith
5. Michael Oher
6. Malcolm Jenkins
7. Eugene Monroe
8. Michael Crabtree
9. Rey Maualuga
10.Tyson Jackson

just one mans opinion

[Rastak]

Furhter, if someone is pushing down and forward, that means the opposite force is up and backward (relatively speaking).

Think about what an upward force does for your abilty to stay anchored. It's not good.


Isn't Pat Williams about 6'1"?


That's leverage against a straight bullrush. What happens when a skilled lineman uses that force against you?

I guess since leverage is the name of the game for lineman they should all be short on both sides of the ball? I don't think it's quite that simple. I would agree the shorter guy has the advantage on a straight bullrush or interior pass blocking against a big guy.

[Lurker64]

Furhter, if someone is pushing down and forward, that means the opposite force is up and backward (relatively speaking).

Think about what an upward force does for your abilty to stay anchored. It's not good.


Isn't Pat Williams about 6'1"?


That's leverage against a straight bullrush. What happens when a skilled lineman uses that force against you?

I guess since leverage is the name of the game for lineman they should all be short on both sides of the ball? I don't think it's quite that simple. I would agree the shorter guy has the advantage on a straight bullrush or interior pass blocking against a big guy.

I think that's why you don't end up with 4'1" 300 lb NTs. But a 6'0" guy is far from too short to play on the interior DL. Being 2" shorter than the guy you're playing against is a big difference when it comes to CBs and WRs, but not as major a difference for DTs. In the interior, guys are going to be trying to get low off the snap more times than not, anyway (which is why you don't see 6'7" OGs for the most part.)

Presumably shorter than most of the guys lined up against him (but potentially just as powerful), he will have an advantage in terms of moving forward and not-moving-backwards. As to lateral movement, it's going to come down to footwork and technique, which a guy with shorter legs is going to have a little more trouble with, but again 6'0" isn't exactly a midget. A taller guy with longer arms than you (some tall guys have tiny useless arms, like Sam Baker), may be able to get his arms on you before you can get your arms on him, thus he can get more force out of his punch than you can (e.g. you can hit somebody a lot harder from 2' away, than you can from 6" away), but the thing I really like about Raji is that he has a very quick first step in addition to his power.

I don't see him as either "a reach at #9" or "too short to play NT." If you were building him in a lab, you might put a couple of inches on him (and make him a probable eventual Nobel Laureate too, while you're at it), but this is football and not mad science. A certain amount of DT play can be judged by "can you knock the other guy backwards/ does the other guy knock you backwards" (beyond that, it's mostly just lateral movement, arm technique, hitting, and tackling). We play this game on a gridiron, and not in a laboratory after all.

[Partial]

Mike Patterson is 6'0", Ryan Pickett is 6'2"

The short guys (especially the wrestling trained ones like Raji) play with much better pad level, guys lower to the ground are harder to push back, he whose pads are lower wins 90% of the time. Long arms are for rushing the passer, low pads are for winning the battle in the run game.

Mike Patterson nor Pickett are listed as Nose Tackles.

How has short Scott Wells wrestling training helped him in getting push? A tall, powerful guy getting low is going to over power a short guy every day of the week.

I don't buy what you're saying at all, as all of the premiere guys are all quite tall.

[Partial]

NFL Rosters disagree. These are all the guys that line up as a nose tackle.

I haven't seen enough of Raji to make a comparison, but I just don't see it being very likely based on his length. 6 flat is really short for an NT. He'd have to have freakishly long arms for his size to play with any sort of leverage.

Shorter = better leverage

Short guys have a natural advantage with leverage. Tall guys need to learn how to use it and need more muscle/size to play at the same level of practical strength.

Shorter does not equal better leverage... what are earth are you talking about? Natural leverage... not really... The big, tall guy is going to blow them off the line play after play because they have longer arms and are likely naturally stronger.

That's just crazy talk and would straight up defy most laws of physics. Have you ever arm wrestled or regular wrestled anyone taller than you? My guess is you didn't win.

While it's true you want to get lower than the opposition, there is a reason most of the dominant linemen are big guys. Look at the best ends and best DT/NTs in the league. They're big, tall guys.

Did you ever even play football or wrestle? A short stocky guy can hold leverage like a tree stump.

Maybe in high school or even college, but these guys are all getting low. The big guy is going to get just as low, be playing at a better angle for his back, be able to anchor better, etc.

There is a reason the best guys in the league at the position are taller. See the list I posted.

[Lurker64]

When we're talking about the heights of these guys, are we talking combine height or roster height? Since combine height is scrupulously accurate and roster height tends to be inflated (Warren Sapp was always listed as taller than he was.)

So it's sort of unfair to compare the roster height of all these guys to the (anticipated) combine height for Raji. Raji's 6-1 number is the one to compare to these other guys, and there are 6' 1" DTs who do okay for themselves in this league (Colin Cole, the only DT on the roster this year who wasn't disappointing, is listed at 6'1" and he's nowhere near as strong or quick as Raji.) Sedrick Ellis is listed at 6'1" and he had a fine season for the Saints this year.

I mean, Raji's not a pure NT. He's stout enough to play the over-tackle position, and he's quick enough to play the under-tackle position. Since we don't know what defense we're going to be using next year it's too early to really predict how the tackles are going to line up. I like him a lot right now since he can play both over and under.

Top 10 lists anybody?

[jmbarnes101]

Resubmission:

1. Aaron Curry - OLB Wake Forest
2. Malcolm Jenkins - CB Ohio St.
3. Michael Crabtree - WR Texas Tech
4. Eugene Monroe - OT Virginia
5. Andre Smith - OT Alabama
6. Matt Shaughnessy - DE Wisconsin
7. Brian Orakpo - DE Texas
8. Michael Oher - OT Mississippi
9. B.J. Raji - DT Boston College
10. William Moore - S Missouri

[Waldo]

How has short Scott Wells wrestling training helped him in getting push? A tall, powerful guy getting low is going to over power a short guy every day of the week.

I don't buy what you're saying at all, as all of the premiere guys are all quite tall.

The only reason Wells is playing is because his technique is so good. He is an A+ technician with a D+ body. He just isn't strong or athletic enough to ever be anything more than mediocre.

Casey Hampton is as premiere as any NT in the game, he is the best. There are good ones from all heights, Wilfork is darn good, as is phat Pat and Jamal Williams. Henderson, Big Al, and Stroud are the tall ones, the tall ones tend to be better pass rushers as they can keep the OL from getting to their pads.

Gilbert Brown was 6'-2"

[RashanGary]

Short players have a tough time carrying weight. Much of the time, 6'2" to 6'3" is about premium but every human body is a little different. Levers are not the same on everyone.

One guy can have a big, wide frame with natural power in his build. One guy can a narrow frame and barely be able to pack on 200 lbs. If you're 6'1" and you have the widest of wide frames, you can get pretty damn big and have the natural leverage advantage to play football.

If you're 6'3" and have a really huge frame you can get pretty damn big and learn to play with better leverage and have the advantage of longer arms (usually) that helps keep pass protection puches from getting to you and helps for batting down passes.

If I'm looking for an all around DT, I'm all about a little more height. If he's just going to be an anchor, 6'1" to 6'3" is ideal or normal at least.

[RashanGary]

Also, I'm built a little thicker than my brother who's skinny as a bean pole and he never lifts a weight while I moderately work out. He can outlift me with his legs just getting off the couch from a video game and has been able to since he was 12 and I was 15. I wondered why.


He has a different build. His legs and body have a different relationship to each other than mine, and I think now that, that is the reason he can easily lift weight with his legs.


Little quirks like that are reasons height and weight are very deceptive. Every body is different. See how the body performs, not how it measures with height/weight.

[Joemailman]

Updated List:

1) Andre Smith OT Alabama

2) Brian Orakpo DE Texas

3) Michael Oher OT Ole Miss

4) Jason Smith OT Baylor

5) Aaron Curry LB Wake Forest

6) Michael Johnson DE Georgia Tech

7) Eugene Monroe OT Virginia

8) Ray Maualuga LB USC

9) Tyson jackson DE LSU

10) Malcolm Jenkins CB OSU