If we switch to 3-4

[pack4to84]

There are a few styles of the 3-4 defense.

3-4/4-3 hybrid. 2 DT, 1 DE, with a Smart good pass rusher as the rover DE/OLB type. He moves around and picks his spot to rush. A.k.A Tim Harris/B.Paup type of player. I think the Packers could use this type of 3-4 with Kampman as the rover. He is smart and could do the job.

3-4 with big OLB. I also think the Packers have the players to run this style too. Under this scheme you like to have tall 6'4-6'7 type OLB with speed. Kampman would be the ROLB and Thompson/Hunter being the LOLB. I think Kampman could play this because he is smart and already shown he can drop back in coverage. Hawk, Bishop and Barnett would have to fight for the starting 2 MLB positions. Under this scheme I would draft M.Johnson if he was still available in the draft. He is 6'7 with speed could fill the LOLB spot. DT would be Pickett and DE Jenkins and Harrell if they stay health. Other wise Jolly would start for Harrell. I think Harrell would excel at DE in the 3-4. If he could stay health.

3-4 with speedy OLB's and big MLB's. This scheme I don't think the Packers have the players to play it.

I have always like the 3-4 with the rover. I remember Harris causing so much havoc. Many teams had to call audibles. Then teams learned that the longer they waited for Harris to move around they were at a disadvantage. Then they would do quick counts preventing Harris from getting lined up. Many time Harris got stuck in the middle of the field. So this style has it's draw backs but could be easily used with the players we have now.

I would like to use both the rover 3-4 and big OLB 3-4 version. The big 3-4 version would be harder to run against because you basically have 3 DT and 2 DE/OLB type. With 1 or both OLB rushing the passer every play. With the height of the OLB it would be harder to throw the flats.

[PackerPro42]

If the Packers do decide to switch to a 3-4, I would like to see them get Suggs. Then they could run any of the schemes that you listed above.

[Lurker64]

If the Packers switch to the 3-4, I'd like to see them pick up at least 2 more NTs, at least one of which has experience in the scheme.

If we switch to the 3-4, we have Pickett who can play NT and then... ? Considering that all of the other teams in this 3-team division are committed to running the ball, switching to a 3-4 without a solid answer at NT scares the hell out of me.

[PackerPro42]

If the Packers switch to the 3-4, I'd like to see them pick up at least 2 more NTs, at least one of which has experience in the scheme.

If we switch to the 3-4, we have Pickett who can play NT and then... ? Considering that all of the other teams in this 3-team division are committed to running the ball, switching to a 3-4 without a solid answer at NT scares the hell out of me.

Very true, if we do switch to a 3-4 we need to pick up a few vets (regardless of position) that have been successful in the scheme.

[Partial]

I'm thinking that Justin Harrell becomes a phenomenal DE prospect to line up opposite of Jenkins. Jolly could do the same.

Kamp almost has to move to OLB.

[Patler]

If the Packers switch to a 3-4, I would like to see them trade Kampman. I do not see him as all that effective in the 3-4, and if they could find a trade partner willing to give up a couple prime picks, or an accomplished lineman in a 3-4 I would take it.

[Lurker64]

If the Packers switch to a 3-4, I would like to see them trade Kampman. I do not see him as all that effective in the 3-4, and if they could find a trade partner willing to give up a couple prime picks, or an accomplished lineman in a 3-4 I would take it.

I agree, which is largely why I don't want to hire a DC who's a 3-4 guy. A guy who will mix in 3-4 and 4-3 looks for different downs and distances are fine, but full-time 3-4 would need a significant amount of roster shakeup.

[texaspackerbacker]

I really don't think we would need the roster shake up.

As the original post stated, we are very well suited for two of the three ways this D is played. I think even the fourth is covered with Chillar, Bishop, Popinga, and Hunter on the outside. I further think that Harrell would be better suited, if healthy, to rotate with Pickett at nose tackle--with Jolly sharing time with Jenkins and Montgomery and Thompson sharing time with Kampman.

As for picking up veterans or whatever, hell no. What we have is fine.

The major selling point of the 3-4 is that it gets maximum effectiveness without superstar talent.

Of course, there may be a whole lot of jumping the gun going on here, as, for better or worse, we have no real indication that McCarthy will go in that direction.

[RashanGary]

If the Packers switch to a 3-4, I would like to see them trade Kampman. I do not see him as all that effective in the 3-4, and if they could find a trade partner willing to give up a couple prime picks, or an accomplished lineman in a 3-4 I would take it.

I agree. I hope we do not change because I like Kampman that much. If we do change, we have to get something substantial for him. Either a late first round pick or a damn good player.

[Fritz]

I would like to see a coach who runs a 4-3, since those are the types of players we have currently. I think a stud d-lineman and a bit more imagination on defense is enough to fix the troubles.

[ND72]

I listened to one of the espnradio shows today (around 12:30ish)...they got into talking about the Packers coaches being fired, and all of the football guys (Scherleath, Salisbury, and someone else) all said Green Bay is designed perfectly for the 3-4. Scherleath, "Jenkins is the DE/DT type power end in the 3-4, and Kampman is that perfect other DE for the system. You can move him around, and he can still play a true type DE in a 3-4 defense. Jolly and Pickett would be a nice rotation inside at DT, and Harrell could play a DE spot as well in a rotation. They do have 4 Linebackers, but they would have to get a bunch more for some competition."


That's what I've been saying for a long time now.

[RashanGary]

If they switched, I'd rather see Kampman play OLB. He's only 265. That's normal playing weight for a 3-4 pass rushing OLB. He's tiny for 3-4 DE. Barnett would have to leave too.

[ND72]

If they switched, I'd rather see Kampman play OLB. He's only 265. That's normal playing weight for a 3-4 pass rushing OLB. He's tiny for 3-4 DE. Barnett would have to leave too.

Disagree with all of that. #1 Kampman does not have OLB speed. and why would Barnett have to leave? Probably the best athlete at LB for us...don't understand that one. No, he's not the typical bulk size of a 3-4 MLB, but he could still make it. No reason Barnett would have to go.

[RashanGary]

Barnett cannot shed blocks. 3-4 LBs all have to take on and shed blocks.

Kampman is tiny for 3-4 end. Plus, it's a complete waste of his pass rushing talent ot make him a block eater.

Horrible idea. We'll play 4-3 IMO.

[red]

we have one guy that doesn't fit the 3-4



ONE, kampman. and i'm really not sure he's a bad fit

the rest would fit just fine

[RashanGary]

we have one guy that doesn't fit the 3-4



ONE, kampman

the rest would fit just fine

Barnett wouldn't fit either and Kampman is our only great front 7 player. Fuck that. 3-4 is so overrated. Only a couple teams run it well. The rest suck ass. There are just as many really good 4-3 defenses as there are 3-4.

[pbmax]

The unfortunate part? He might be the D's best player. This happened to Ray Lewis as well in Baltimore when Nolan got hired. Nolan, and I am going by my fuzzy recollection, ran a hybrid 3-4/4-3 in part to satisfy Lewis and keep linebackers off him. He was less than thrilled.

Of course, they still run some kind of hybrid there with Suggs and previously with Adalius Thomas. Those guys rush the passer but played standing up a good deal too. Thomas went to play LB with the Patriots obviously, and Suggs was having a beef with the Ravens trying to pay him LB money for the franchise tag.


we have one guy that doesn't fit the 3-4



ONE, kampman

the rest would fit just fine

[ND72]

Barnett cannot shed blocks. 3-4 LBs all have to take on and shed blocks.

Kampman is tiny for 3-4 end. Plus, it's a complete waste of his pass rushing talent ot make him a block eater.

Horrible idea. We'll play 4-3 IMO.


#1 - Barnett's "weakness" is no reason to drop him just because, and until you saw him in a 3-4, you don't know how he'd play.

#2 - Kampman - Shaun Ellis (Jets) 285 pounds. Jarvis Green (Patriots) 285 pounds. Brett Keisel (Steelers) 285 pounds, Aaron Smith (Steelers) 295, and Travis Kirschke (Steelers) 295 pounds, Luis Castillo (Chargers) 290 pounds, Justin Smith (49ers) 285 pounds, Ray McDonald (49ers) 290 pounds....those are all DE's that are considered "light" for their position. Kampman, remember, came in as a Defensive Tackle from Iowa. If needed, I garuntee Kampy could bulk himself up to 280-290 and not miss a step.

[pbmax]

we have one guy that doesn't fit the 3-4



ONE, kampman

the rest would fit just fine

Barnett wouldn't fit either and Kampman is our only great front 7 player. Fuck that. 3-4 is so overrated. Only a couple teams run it well. The rest suck ass. There are just as many really good 4-3 defenses as there are 3-4.
Bedard had a weird take on the LBs in his breakdown of the Packers switching to a 3-4. He thought Barnett and Chillar would be the locks and Hawk and Poppinga would be miscast. He must be thinking of a different 3-4 than I am, since speed is rarely a factor in the inside LBs in the 3-4 I know. Look at the Patriots and their over the hill gang at ILB. Thomas is the athlete and he plays on the edge.

[red]

if kamp can make the move to OLB, then our lineup is almost perfect

de- jolly 320
nt- picket 330
de- jenkins 305

olb-kampman 265
ilb- barnett 236
ilb- hawk 248
olb- pop, chillar, or find another guy

thats pretty damn close to the size of the steelers front 7. and they ranked #1 in everything

i really don't think we would be all that screwed if we did decide to make the change. and its not like our guys have the 4-3 mastered or anything

[denverYooper]

Barnett cannot shed blocks. 3-4 LBs all have to take on and shed blocks.

Kampman is tiny for 3-4 end. Plus, it's a complete waste of his pass rushing talent ot make him a block eater.

Horrible idea. We'll play 4-3 IMO.

Terrell Suggs is around the same size as Kampman -- he lists as 1" shorter and 5# lighter. He's done ok in both LB/DE positions in the Ravens 3-4.

Nolan helped develop Suggs, too. I'd wager he might be able to convert Kampman.

[Bossman641]

Barnett cannot shed blocks. 3-4 LBs all have to take on and shed blocks.

Kampman is tiny for 3-4 end. Plus, it's a complete waste of his pass rushing talent ot make him a block eater.

Horrible idea. We'll play 4-3 IMO.

Terrell Suggs is around the same size as Kampman -- he lists as 1" shorter and 5# lighter. He's done ok in both LB/DE positions in the Ravens 3-4.

Nolan helped develop Suggs, too. I'd wager he might be able to convert Kampman.

I'm not sure Kampman is athletic enough. Hate to label him like that, cause I know he's always gotten cast as the hard-working overachieving DE, but I just don't think he is fluid enough to drop into coverage.

[Partial]

Barnett cannot shed blocks. 3-4 LBs all have to take on and shed blocks.

Kampman is tiny for 3-4 end. Plus, it's a complete waste of his pass rushing talent ot make him a block eater.

Horrible idea. We'll play 4-3 IMO.

Terrell Suggs is around the same size as Kampman -- he lists as 1" shorter and 5# lighter. He's done ok in both LB/DE positions in the Ravens 3-4.

Nolan helped develop Suggs, too. I'd wager he might be able to convert Kampman.

I'm not sure Kampman is athletic enough. Hate to label him like that, cause I know he's always gotten cast as the hard-working overachieving DE, but I just don't think he is fluid enough to drop into coverage.

Somebody around here, I believe JustinHarrell, likes to talk about how the Packers had Kampman ranked as the second most athletic linemen in the combine his draft year or something to that effect.

Perhaps they can shed some light.

[Bossman641]

Barnett cannot shed blocks. 3-4 LBs all have to take on and shed blocks.

Kampman is tiny for 3-4 end. Plus, it's a complete waste of his pass rushing talent ot make him a block eater.

Horrible idea. We'll play 4-3 IMO.

Terrell Suggs is around the same size as Kampman -- he lists as 1" shorter and 5# lighter. He's done ok in both LB/DE positions in the Ravens 3-4.

Nolan helped develop Suggs, too. I'd wager he might be able to convert Kampman.

I'm not sure Kampman is athletic enough. Hate to label him like that, cause I know he's always gotten cast as the hard-working overachieving DE, but I just don't think he is fluid enough to drop into coverage.

Somebody around here, I believe JustinHarrell, likes to talk about how the Packers had Kampman ranked as the second most athletic linemen in the combine his draft year or something to that effect.

Perhaps they can shed some light.

You're right. I do remember that his numbers at the combine were really good. I dunno, I just can't picture Kampman running with a TE or RB, even for a short amount of time. But then again I can't really picture Poppinga doing it and he's been starting for a few years now. :doh:

[wist43]

Switching to a 3-4 would be painful, do in part to the money they have invested in 4-3 personnel.

That said, Kampman could bulk up and hold down one end, and Jenkins is a nice fits on the other side... NT would be an issue.

The real problem would be at LB... the Packers don't have any 3-4 LB's really. Hawk and Barnewtt would be even more pedestrian in a 3-4. Would have to be a total purge at LB. You need big play guys at LB in a 3-4... TT would have to really focus on bringing in a lot of new guys.

[run pMc]

I hope they stay with the 4-3. I don't think they have the personnel to make the switch, and I think Kampman is worth more to GB than what he'd get in trade.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/packers.html

As far as how the Packers' current personal meshes with the 3-4, it's a mixed bag

After 2007, this was a defense that posters were saying could be top 10...I don't think a scheme change that dramatic will be an upgrade, certainly not in Year 1. What happens when the preseason comes along and the defense is getting torched because the players are still learning the defense?
How long before posters start flaming the new DC?

I think either Harrell has to make the leap or TT has to find a better DT.
They need a pass rushing DE.
They need a better safety than Bigby or Rouse.
And they need a better DC than Sanders...he was too slow in his in-game adjustments.

[pbmax]

Bump. Here is the breakdown of player types that might be called for depending on how Nolan aligns his defense. Now we just need to figure our which he is going to run.

[westcoastpacker]

Hi all First time poster but I have been lurking for a few years now. I thought this would be a good place to post this from the National football post.
FIVE THINGS I HEAR….

1. I hear that some Jets employees are calling Randy Lerner of the Browns to recommend Eric Mangini. The longer this goes on, the more worried Mangini should be that Lerner is interviewing other people. There are rumblings that other coaches are being called for interviews.



2. I hear the Packers are committed to becoming a 3-4 defense. This must mean Mike Nolan is coming on board very soon.



3. I hear the Lions are looking to talk with Atlanta offensive coordinator Mike Mularkey about becoming their head coach. This might be good news since all the good young quarterbacks — Matthew Stafford of Georgia, Josh Freeman of Kansas State and Sam Bradford of Oklahoma – will soon declare for the NFL Draft.



4. I hear the Eagles are not going to stand in the way if Tom Heckert is able to convince Randy Lerner that he should be the Browns’ general manager.



5. I hear the Raiders are just getting started on their coaching search, and many people in and out of the NFL feel that this is Tom Cable’s job. I happen to agree.

[Deputy Nutz]

Here is the problem, it is not whether you run a 3-4 or 4-3, the problem is finding a defensive mind that can run a flexible system that combines the best of both worlds. For instance the Patriots. Sure they are labeled a 3-4 but god damn it if I haven't seen the Patriots line up with 4 defensive linemen with their hand on the ground. Sure if Bob Sanders was running a 3-4 you would only ever see three down linemen. The one thing a defense can't do is become predictable and under Sanders that is exactly what it became whether you are talking 4 man lined fronts or only running man coverage, any dolt assistant coach on a high JV team can figure out how to beat man coverage if that is the only thing that is shown to him.

[denverYooper]

Here is the problem, it is not whether you run a 3-4 or 4-3, the problem is finding a defensive mind that can run a flexible system that combines the best of both worlds. For instance the Patriots. Sure they are labeled a 3-4 but god damn it if I haven't seen the Patriots line up with 4 defensive linemen with their hand on the ground. Sure if Bob Sanders was running a 3-4 you would only ever see three down linemen. The one thing a defense can't do is become predictable and under Sanders that is exactly what it became whether you are talking 4 man lined fronts or only running man coverage, any dolt assistant coach on a high JV team can figure out how to beat man coverage if that is the only thing that is shown to him.

Amen

[pbmax]

Here is the problem, it is not whether you run a 3-4 or 4-3, the problem is finding a defensive mind that can run a flexible system that combines the best of both worlds. For instance the Patriots. Sure they are labeled a 3-4 but god damn it if I haven't seen the Patriots line up with 4 defensive linemen with their hand on the ground. Sure if Bob Sanders was running a 3-4 you would only ever see three down linemen. The one thing a defense can't do is become predictable and under Sanders that is exactly what it became whether you are talking 4 man lined fronts or only running man coverage, any dolt assistant coach on a high JV team can figure out how to beat man coverage if that is the only thing that is shown to him.
I agree, but the base alignment does matter because that will dictate starting personnel to a large degree. So we can't guess where Kampman lines up until we know which flavor 3-4 we are getting.

After that question Nutz, then I agree you have to go mutiple front and even when you send four after the QB, make them guess.

[pack4to84]

I was hoping that MM was true to his word he wanted to switch to 3-4 defense. He was Dom Capers brings knowledge of 3-4 and 4-3 hybrid. He is teacher type coach so this is important for a team making a switch. MM could have been wanting to interview Butler from the Steelers, but when they won yesterday he couldn't wait 2 more weeks for him. Dom Capers is who I wanted once he became part of the mix for our DC. Impressive track record. I believe he is the right man for the job. He bring experience vs a new coordinator learning on the job like Sanders had to do. Sanders wasn't as bad as some think. He hit a wall like some rookies/2nd year players do. He wasn't getting any better in his play calling. When your defense fails 7 out of 7 times in like matter he never got over the hump. He had to be let go. I was afraid we would get a DC that was going to have to learn on the job. I didn't want that. We have a lot of young talent. Dom being a teacher type could mold them into his style.

[Fritz]

Can't wait to hear what they say at the presser about what kind of D it will be.

[pbmax]

My guess is that you will her the words aggressive and attack. Just a guess. :lol:

[texaspackerbacker]

The one blessing from all the injuries last season is that we now do have good personnel for the 3-4.

I think Hawk will thrive on the inside, and Barnett will continue to be excellent. I don't see any problem with Kampman playing 3-4 DE even without bulking up. The 3-4 is first and foremost an excellent run stopping scheme because of the four linebackers--more bend-don't-break than pressure. In that context, I would think you could get by with a lighter better pass rushing DE. For that matter, Kampman probably could do all right as a 3-4 linebacker too. He's smart, and if you can get short zone coverage from a D Lineman on occasion with zone blitzing, Kampman could certainly handle the same responsibility from a OLB spot. I don't think they will go that route, though.

I see the lineup like this:

Pickett backed up by Harrell at NT

Jenkins, Kampman, backed up by Jolly and Montgomery at DE

Barnett, Hawk at ILB, backed up by Bishop

Popinga, Chillar, Hunt, Thompson in some combination and rotation at OLB

And business as usual at DB.

No D Lineman or LB would need to be drafted at all, although getting an Everett Brown-type potential superstar outside rusher would be a luxury item worth considering--far more with the 3-4 than with the 4-3.

Hopefully, if we hear the words "pressure" or "aggressive", they are accompanied by the words "a small amount of" or "occasionally".

[mraynrand]

Can't wait to hear what they say at the presser about what kind of D it will be.

I think McCarthy will be as obtuse about the defense as he's been regarding the ZBS.

[mraynrand]

The one blessing from all the injuries last season is that we now do have good personnel for the 3-4.

I think Hawk will thrive on the inside, and Barnett will continue to be excellent. I don't see any problem with Kampman playing 3-4 DE even without bulking up. The 3-4 is first and foremost an excellent run stopping scheme because of the four linebackers--more bend-don't-break than pressure. In that context, I would think you could get by with a lighter better pass rushing DE. For that matter, Kampman probably could do all right as a 3-4 linebacker too. He's smart, and if you can get short zone coverage from a D Lineman on occasion with zone blitzing, Kampman could certainly handle the same responsibility from a OLB spot. I don't think they will go that route, though.

I see the lineup like this:

Pickett backed up by Harrell at NT

Jenkins, Kampman, backed up by Jolly and Montgomery at DE

Barnett, Hawk at ILB, backed up by Bishop

Popinga, Chillar, Hunt, Thompson in some combination and rotation at OLB

And business as usual at DB.

No D Lineman or LB would need to be drafted at all, although getting an Everett Brown-type potential superstar outside rusher would be a luxury item worth considering--far more with the 3-4 than with the 4-3.

Hopefully, if we hear the words "pressure" or "aggressive", they are accompanied by the words "a small amount of" or "occasionally".

Let me see if I understand this correctly: Injuries improved the defense's ability to be 3-4? Kampman an OLB running around in space? Geezus, I choke every time I hear that. Why would anyone think Kampman could be an OLB in a 3-4?

[Joemailman]

Barnett isn't big enough to play inside in a 3-4. The ILB's have to be bigger because they only have one DT in front of them to occupy the interior linemen. Poppinga, Bishop and Hawk might be able to play there. I suspect this will be a gradual transition, with the Packers drafting players who fit into a 3-4.

[Waldo]

Barnett isn't big enough to play inside in a 3-4. The ILB's have to be bigger because they only have one DT in front of them to occupy the interior linemen. Poppinga, Bishop and Hawk might be able to play there. I suspect this will be a gradual transition, with the Packers drafting players who fit into a 3-4.

On a good % of 3-4's, one DE slants down to the G, and the NT eats the other two, leaving the OLB (usually the weakside) one on one with the T.

[rbaloha1]

Still maintain current Packers are a bad fit for the prototypical 3-4.

Having a DC who has experience in multiple schemes greatly enhances defensive success.

Capers will have the proper schemes to fit the personnel which is a 4-3 look with 3-4 tendencies.

[pack4to84]

I still can't get why people think Kampman can't play OLB in a 3-4 defense. 1 of the OLB blitz 80% of the time. The other 20% drops in zones in the flat. I know Kampman has drop into zones so this would be nothing new for him. While blitzing from a wide angle that gives him an advantage over the OT. In some cases Kampman would be blocked only by a RB. I will bet Kampman every time vs a RB.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Barnett isn't big enough to play inside in a 3-4. The ILB's have to be bigger because they only have one DT in front of them to occupy the interior linemen. Poppinga, Bishop and Hawk might be able to play there. I suspect this will be a gradual transition, with the Packers drafting players who fit into a 3-4.

Not all LBs in the 3-4 are big. Barnett is 6'2" 236.

Zach Thomas is 5'11" 228
Jerod Mayo is 6'1" 242
James Harrison is 6'0" 242
Larry Foote is 6'1" 239
Stephen Cooper is 6'1" 235
Patrick Willis is 6'1" 240
Takeo Spikes is 6'2" 242

Seems that every 3-4 team has one LB that is comparable in size to Barnett. It helps to be bigger, but it's not a given that Barnett wouldn't be able to fit the scheme. We'll see.

[bobblehead]

I think Barnett getting injured made this an easier move as I don't see how he fits in a 3-4.

Guys that benefit a lot. Jason Hunter, Poppinga, Bishop.

Guys that benefit a little. Hawk, Jenkins, Chillar

Guys that might be gone. Barnett (after reading Harveys post which wasn't there when I started this I am more optimistic)

Guys that are slightly hurt. Kampman, Jolly

It looks pretty much a push on paper, now add in FA's like Bart Scott and Terell Suggs, and Draft prospects at #9 and I think we could come out of this with a 10-12 ranked defense next year if they learn well.

I think it takes the pressure off to break the bank on a FA DLineman. It relieves pressure to draft a DLineman. We could grab a LT now if one is there and not feel like we "needed" to go D.

I see this next year for a front 7.

Kampman, Pickett, Jenkins rotating Jolly, Harrel??, Montgomery

Chillar, Hawk, Bishop, Poppinga FA and draft in the mix

I won't speculate on how the backups and special teams backups play out as I don't know their skills enough in many cases. I think Hunter is a wildcard as his skills and high motor might really benefit playing OLB on passing downs. He is also good on ST and probably can lineup in several spots and excel as long as the offense can't predict it. He doesn't seem to do well when the Off knows where he is going to be ahead of time, but I could see him moving around a bit and excelling here.

[packers11]

doesn't this benefit our CB's??? They don't have to cover the WR for 5 seconds now because there will be pressure on the QB...

The ravens yesterday had Frank Walker starting, I have a feeling our corners will thrive in the 3-4...

[Patler]

Just listened to MM's press conference.
He said both Jenkins and Kampman should be excited about the change. Emphasized many times that this should be a very good defense for Kampman, and mentioned that he could line up some in the linebacker spot.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I wish Barnett didn't get hurt this year. If he had a year like 07 he could get you a second round pick. I think we could make Kampman work, but I don't like Barnett in the 3-4.

Assuming Kampman can play DE in the 3-4 and Hawk can play inside:

We need on 1 Ilb, 2 OLBs and a bid strong NT. Four players is really isn't that much.

[Bossman641]

I see many people are projecting Hunter to line up as an OLB in this scheme and maybe be a surprise. Can someone explain this to me? I have seen nothing that makes me think he'll be a good rush OLB. He's fast, but that's it. I don't get it. If you move a turd from DE to OLB, he is still a turd.

[pack4to84]

I wish Barnett didn't get hurt this year. If he had a year like 07 he could get you a second round pick. I think we could make Kampman work, but I don't like Barnett in the 3-4.

Assuming Kampman can play DE in the 3-4 and Hawk can play inside:

We need on 1 Ilb, 2 OLBs and a bid strong NT. Four players is really isn't that much.MM said Kampman would play OLB

[HarveyWallbangers]

I see many people are projecting Hunter to line up as an OLB in this scheme and maybe be a surprise. Can someone explain this to me? I have seen nothing that makes me think he'll be a good rush OLB. He's fast, but that's it. I don't get it. If you move a turd from DE to OLB, he is still a turd.

Dude is 6'4" 271 and ran a 4.5 coming out. That's what is intriguing. Most OLBs in the 3-4 wouldn't look nearly as good if you put them at DE in a 4-3 and allowed OTs to get their hands on them.

[packers11]

Hawk and Barnett would be in middle...

Jenkins Pickett Jolly (line)

OLB Would be Kampy and Poppinga/Chillar...

(projected lineup with current roster)...

I could see it going down like this... But i'm sure FA/draft will change 1-2 spots...

[pack4to84]

I see many people are projecting Hunter to line up as an OLB in this scheme and maybe be a surprise. Can someone explain this to me? I have seen nothing that makes me think he'll be a good rush OLB. He's fast, but that's it. I don't get it. If you move a turd from DE to OLB, he is still a turd.

Dude is 6'4" 271 and ran a 4.5 coming out. That's what is intriguing. Most OLBs in the 3-4 wouldn't look nearly as good if you put them at DE in a 4-3 and allowed OTs to get their hands on them.as a OLB Hunter wouldn't be aim for contact. He would be aim to get up the field. It would be like a DE not worrying about the run every play. It makes it hard to run outside vs 3-4.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Hawk and Barnett would be in middle...

Jenkins Pickett Jolly (line)

OLB Would be Kampy and Poppinga/Chillar...

(projected lineup with current roster)...

I could see it going down like this... But i'm sure FA/draft will change 1-2 spots...

Mostly agree. I think Jenkins, Pickett, and Hawk would be ideal fits. I've come around to the idea of Kampman as a rush OLB. Jolly would need to step up or get replaced. Barnett isn't an ideal fit, but I'm not ready to write him off. Maybe Poppinga goes inside. Maybe Bishop is the answer. Not sure what to make of Poppinga or Chillar as the other rush OLB. I think Hunter and Thompson would have legit chances to compete for that spot.

[Gunakor]

Hawk and Barnett would be in middle...

Jenkins Pickett Jolly (line)

OLB Would be Kampy and Poppinga/Chillar...

(projected lineup with current roster)...

I could see it going down like this... But i'm sure FA/draft will change 1-2 spots...

Mostly agree. I think Jenkins, Pickett, and Hawk would be ideal fits. I've come around to the idea of Kampman as a rush OLB. Jolly would need to step up or get replaced. Barnett isn't an ideal fit, but I'm not ready to write him off. Maybe Poppinga goes inside. Maybe Bishop is the answer. Not sure what to make of Poppinga or Chillar as the other rush OLB. I think Hunter and Thompson would have legit chances to compete for that spot.

Chillar is currently the best blitzer in our LB corps. I'm fairly certain that he'll be lining up at the other OLB spot next season, barring a trade or FA pickup or studly draft pick.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Chillar is currently the best blitzer in our LB corps. I'm fairly certain that he'll be lining up at the other OLB spot next season, barring a trade or FA pickup or studly draft pick.

1) That isn't saying much.
2) I'm not sure if he'd be better than Poppinga as a 3-4 pass rush OLB.
3) I'm not sure if he'd be better than Hunter or Thompson as a 3-4 pass rush OLB.
4) I'm not sure that the Packers won't sign or draft a guy who is better.

It will be an interesting battle for the LB spots.

[red]

poppinga was a DE in college, we were the ones that turned him into a so-so lber

that could be a real nice move for him

i'm actually very excited about this team for the first time in quite awhile. because of this move to 3-4

[Gunakor]

Chillar is currently the best blitzer in our LB corps. I'm fairly certain that he'll be lining up at the other OLB spot next season, barring a trade or FA pickup or studly draft pick.

1) That isn't saying much.
2) I'm not sure if he'd be better than Poppinga as a 3-4 pass rush OLB.
3) I'm not sure if he'd be better than Hunter or Thompson as a 3-4 pass rush OLB.
4) I'm not sure that the Packers won't sign or draft a guy who is better.

It will be an interesting battle for the LB spots.

Both OLB's aren't going to be rushing the passer on every snap. Sometimes the pressure will come from the left. Sometimes the right. Sometimes one of the ILB's will come, while both OLB's drop back. So the question is, will Hunter or Thompson be better overall than Chillar? My guess is no. They'd be better pass rushers, but a liability when they aren't on the blitz. And opposing OC's will key on this, and account for where the pressure is coming from - negating the confusion the 3-4 is designed to create. May as well stick with the 4-3 if we are going to tell offenses where the pressure is coming from. Chillar can do both effectively, and that's why the job will be his.

[rbaloha1]

I wish Barnett didn't get hurt this year. If he had a year like 07 he could get you a second round pick. I think we could make Kampman work, but I don't like Barnett in the 3-4.

Assuming Kampman can play DE in the 3-4 and Hawk can play inside:

We need on 1 Ilb, 2 OLBs and a bid strong NT. Four players is really isn't that much.MM said Kampman would play OLB

This concerns me. Kampman is probably have to loose weight. Agreed Kampy's athleticism is underrated. Very explosive as a pass rusher.

Kampy appears stiff when moving sideways. 40 times are not the best indicator of linebacker play. IMO agility is more important.

IMO Kampy should bulk up and play DE. Ryan Pickett is a great fit as a noseguard.

I shall wait for pre season to access personnel in the new scheme.

Nonetheless a great hire. Kudos to TT.

[pbmax]

Before you start assigning job positions, read this from the PC:

(I don't see Kampman as that type of defensive end in a 3-4. Does he need to get bigger?)
He's an outside rusher. Who's to say we're going to play him at the defensive end position? There's two types of 3-4. You look at the old two-gap 3-4, and you look at the 3-4 that Pittsburgh, Baltimore, San Francisco and Dallas, what they're doing with their personnel. I think this is an excellent defense for Aaron, particularly in the base defense, and we'll also utilize Aaron more in the sub-packages.
We don't know what we don't know about this scheme yet. It doesn't sound like the 3-4 hybrid of Belichick or Saban. Or the 3-4 that Marty ran in Cleveland.

And for the record, I don't think Singletary ran much 3-4 after he took over, did he?

[Lurker64]

It is important to note that there is no "one true 3-4 defense". Really the only thing that characterizes the 3-4 is that there are only three guys with their hands on the ground for the defense. I expect to see a lot of different looks, including a lot of them that basically use the 3-4 alignment but one of the DEs is standing.

There are as many different wrinkles in the 3-4 as there are in the 4-3. It would be foolish to assume that the coaches would choose to run sets and plays that puts the existing talent on the roster in bad positions. They may not be the greatest coaches, but they aren't obviously incompetent.

[Partial]

Just listened to MM's press conference.
He said both Jenkins and Kampman should be excited about the change. Emphasized many times that this should be a very good defense for Kampman, and mentioned that he could line up some in the linebacker spot.

Kampman is the reverse Trevor Pryce. Started out at DT, moved to DE, now possible to LB, soon to safety!

Pryce went from a smaller LB (I think) to a DE to a really fat DT.

[red]

Just listened to MM's press conference.
He said both Jenkins and Kampman should be excited about the change. Emphasized many times that this should be a very good defense for Kampman, and mentioned that he could line up some in the linebacker spot.

Kampman is the reverse Trevor Pryce. Started out at DT, moved to DE, now possible to LB, soon to safety!

Pryce went from a smaller LB (I think) to a DE to a really fat DT.

i thought patler said somewhere on here that kampman was a LB in college?

just looked it up, he was a line backer in high school and his freshman and sophmore years at iowa. then he made the switch to DE

[Partial]

One thing that kind of stinks about a big transition is there are certain guys drafted at certain positions and paid certain money that are going to want to start even if they aren't the best fit.

You have to start Barnett if he is healthy by virtue of what you pay him. I would try to pull a Vilma and trade him, as I don't see him being too effective inside or out in a 3-4.

With that said, I know we have some young guys that have potential at OLB, but Julius Peppers is the definition of a 3-4 OLB. I would pay him whatever he wants to come here and dominate. This sort of player hits the market once every ten years. Throw every dollar you have at him.

[red]

One thing that kind of stinks about a big transition is there are certain guys drafted at certain positions and paid certain money that are going to want to start even if they aren't the best fit.

You have to start Barnett if he is healthy by virtue of what you pay him. I would try to pull a Vilma and trade him, as I don't see him being too effective inside or out in a 3-4.

With that said, I know we have some young guys that have potential at OLB, but Julius Peppers is the definition of a 3-4 OLB. I would pay him whatever he wants to come here and dominate. This sort of player hits the market once every ten years. Throw every dollar you have at him.

i'd disagree about peppers. i don't think he's ever played olb. so you would be paying a ton of money for a guy that you don't even know if he can play at that position.

now, terrell suggs on the other hand, is a guy that you know can play that position, and play it well

[Partial]

Why wouldn't Peppers be great at it? Any one who is that big and fast and can dominate at end and is often dropped into coverage on zone blitzes can play the OLB rush spot.

Peppers is like DeMarcus Ware, but probably better after a season or two. This would be like passing up on Mario Williams if he hit the market. No no no no no no no! Gotta go out and sign this guy, there isn't a single reason to believe he'd struggle.

[Lurker64]

If the choice is Suggs or Peppers as to which DE/OLB to give a huge contract to, I'd take Suggs in a second (younger, better athlete, more experience in the system, more of a playmaker). Somehow, I don't see us getting either but I didn't think we'd get Woodson two years ago either.

[Partial]

They've got the money, and honestly, they would be really wise to look at Bart Scott and Chris Canty as well as Peppers. Both of these guys have a lot of experience, the ideal size, Scott is a very, very, very good ILB to play next to and mentor Hawk, and Canty can hold down the end spot opposite of Jenkins.

If they made those three signings, with our depth, we'd be back in the playoffs without a doubt, probably with a top 5 defense.

[The Shadow]

Kamp : a good football player is a good football player.
You could incorporate him into any scheme.
He can stop the run, he can rush the passer.
Those guys are the linchpins of any good defense.

[BallHawk]

Peppers is like DeMarcus Ware, but probably better after a season or two.

Ware had more sacks in his first two years than Peppers did in his first two years. Ware also has more sacks in the last two years than Peppers does in the last two years. Ware is flat-out better than Peppers.

Really, I don't know how smart of a signing Peppers would be. It's enticing, I admit, but I'm not sure just yet.

[Partial]

If the choice is Suggs or Peppers as to which DE/OLB to give a huge contract to, I'd take Suggs in a second (younger, better athlete, more experience in the system, more of a playmaker). Somehow, I don't see us getting either but I didn't think we'd get Woodson two years ago either.

Better athlete? Excuse me? Are you hitting the reefer again? If you mean better sprinter, than yes, maybe. Julius Peppers defines freakish athlete. He had better combine numbers than Mario Williams, another freakish athlete. He has consistently produced, etc.

The playmaker talk is just not accurate. Peppers is fantastic.

Suggs is a great pass rusher with experience, but now is not a time to play it "safe". With Suggs, you're getting a sure fire 8. With Peppers, you're either getting an 8 at worst, or a perfect 10 at best.

[red]

They've got the money, and honestly, they would be really wise to look at Bart Scott and Chris Canty as well as Peppers. Both of these guys have a lot of experience, the ideal size, Scott is a very, very, very good ILB to play next to and mentor Hawk, and Canty can hold down the end spot opposite of Jenkins.

.

agreed that those two (scott, canty) would be nice additions

and neither one should break the bank. they'll get good money, but not insane money like peppers or suggs will be getting

you wouldn't need peppers because kamp would be olb

[Partial]

Ware had more sacks in his first two years than Peppers did in his first two years. Ware also has more sacks in the last two years than Peppers does in the last two years. Ware is flat-out better than Peppers.

Peppers had 19. Ware had 19.5. Peppers missed 4 games due to suspension for drugs. He's been an ideal citizen since. Ware never lined up with a tackle across from him, and in a blitz scheme. Peppers lined up at DE.

I'm telling you, this guy is the best end in the league. Mario is right behind him. He's athletic and fast enough to play in the 3-4 at OLB. Just like Jason Taylor flourished in it, Peppers will too. Peppers is a better player than Taylor, and that is saying something. He's just as fast at JT, but has an extra 30 pounds of muscle and freakishly long arms for his 6-7 frame. Dude was a starter for North Carolina basketball team for crying out loud!!

Red, I bet Scott gets as much if not more than Suggs. What 3-4 team is in the market for an OLB? Cleveland with McGinest retiring. Maybe NY. NE isn't going to pony up the cash. Scott has more of a market as I think he could play 3-4 and 4-3.

I'm telling you guys.. Pay whatever it takes to get Peppers and Scott, then try to get Canty on the cheap. Pray that Jenkins falls in the draft, and you've got yourself one nasty defense with a lot of quality depth and veterans to tutor the youngens.

Offensively we'll need a little help, but I think it could come from better playcalling and better health out of JJ.

[rbaloha1]

If the choice is Suggs or Peppers as to which DE/OLB to give a huge contract to, I'd take Suggs in a second (younger, better athlete, more experience in the system, more of a playmaker). Somehow, I don't see us getting either but I didn't think we'd get Woodson two years ago either.

Agreed. Suggs is a dominant performer in a 3-4 scheme.

[rbaloha1]

They've got the money, and honestly, they would be really wise to look at Bart Scott and Chris Canty as well as Peppers. Both of these guys have a lot of experience, the ideal size, Scott is a very, very, very good ILB to play next to and mentor Hawk, and Canty can hold down the end spot opposite of Jenkins.

.

agreed that those two (scott, canty) would be nice additions

and neither one should break the bank. they'll get good money, but not insane money like peppers or suggs will be getting

you wouldn't need peppers because kamp would be olb

Still uncomfortable with Kampy playing olb. Both nice additions.

[Bossman641]

If the choice is Suggs or Peppers as to which DE/OLB to give a huge contract to, I'd take Suggs in a second (younger, better athlete, more experience in the system, more of a playmaker). Somehow, I don't see us getting either but I didn't think we'd get Woodson two years ago either.

Agreed. Suggs would be the pick.

[The Shadow]

I wonder if someone no one is talking about - Jason Taylor - might be an interesting addition, if he's cut loose from the Skins, healthy, and could be lured to Green Bay for a reasonable deal.
I know, I know, folks will say he's too old, but the expertise, leadership, and skills might be a very nice bridge as we develop a young end maybe not even drafted yet.

[The Shadow]

Grady Jackson, to alternate with Pickett, might be worth consideration.
Not requiring much more than clog the middle ala Pat Williams, for 20 snaps, might be a low cost option.

[Joemailman]

If the choice is Suggs or Peppers as to which DE/OLB to give a huge contract to, I'd take Suggs in a second (younger, better athlete, more experience in the system, more of a playmaker). Somehow, I don't see us getting either but I didn't think we'd get Woodson two years ago either.

Agreed. Suggs would be the pick.

I agree, but I don't see Suggs making it to free agency. I think getting him signed will be a higher priority for Baltimore than Ray Lewis.

[b bulldog]

I'd take Allen and Williams over Peppers

[HarveyWallbangers]

Having said Peppers is better than Suggs, I don't think you can assume Peppers would be a great 3-4 OLB. The dude is like 285 pounds.

[Deputy Nutz]

Again like stated in another thread Peppers has more to offer all the way around. I like Suggs in fact I wish the Packers would sign him along with Peppers and a shit load of free agents. The bottom line Peppers can move to a down defensive end position or to outside linebacker, even line him up over the nose. Suggs, can play outside linebacker in a 3-4.

[b bulldog]

Suggs has already proven what he can do in a 3/4, Peppers would carry some risk. Suggs would be cheaper also.

[Partial]

Having said Peppers is better than Suggs, I don't think you can assume Peppers would be a great 3-4 OLB. The dude is like 285 pounds.

I'm glad you agree that Peppers is the better all-around player. Good to know somebody with a lot of knowledge has my back on that one.

I think Pepp could play all-over. Remember what a freak he was at the combine? Also, the fact that he is determined to play OLB in a 3-4 says to me he will work very hard at it to be great. I have a hunch he is sick of double teams play after play.

Having said that, obviously I'd be thrilled with either player, but I really think what Peppers brings to the table is on an entirely different level than Suggs.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The best 3-4 defenses have been Baltimore, Pittsburgh, New England, San Diego, and Dallas.

Interesting to see the measurements for the guys starting for those teams:

NT
Haloti Ngata - 6'4" 345
Jay Ratliff - 6'4" 302
Vince Wilfork - 6'2" 325
Casey Hampton - 6'1" 325
Jamal Williams - 6'3" 348

Ryan Pickett - 6'2" 330
Colin Cole - 6'1" 330

DE
Trevor Pryce - 6'5" 290
Justin Bannan - 6'3" 310
Marcus Spears - 6'4" 315
Chris Canty - 6'7" 304
Richard Seymour - 6'6" 310
Ty Warren - 6'5" 300
Aaron Smith - 6'5" 298
Brett Keisel - 6'5" 285
Igor Olshansky - 6'6" 309
Luis Castillo - 6'3" 290

Cullen Jenkins - 6'2" 305
Johnny Jolly - 6'2" 320
Justin Harrell - 6'4" 320

OLB
Jarret Johnson - 6'3" 265
Terrell Suggs - 6'3" 260
Greg Ellis - 6'6" 262
DeMarcus Ware - 6'4" 262
Mike Vrabel - 6'4" 261
Adalius Thomas - 6'2" 270
LaMarr Woodley - 6'2" 265
James Harrison - 6'0" 242
Shaun Phillips - 6'3" 262
Shawne Merriman - 6'4" 272

Aaron Kampman - 6'4" 265
Jason Hunter - 6'4" 271
Jeremy Thompson - 6'4" 270

ILB
Ray Lewis - 6'1" 250
Bart Scott - 6'2" 240
Bradie James - 6'2" 245
Zach Thomas - 5'11" 242
Jerod Mayo - 6'1" 242
Tedy Bruschi - 6'1" 247
James Farrior - 6'2" 243
Larry Foote - 6'1" 239
Stephen Cooper - 6'1" 235
Tim Dobbins - 6'1" 246

Nick Barnett - 6'2" 236
A.J. Hawk - 6'1" 248
Brandon Chillar - 6'3" 243
Brady Poppinga - 6'3" 247
Desmond Bishop - 6'2" 238

My thoughts: I'm okay with Pickett as the starting NT. I would like to see an upgrade on Cole as the backup. I'm okay with Jenkins as a starting DE, but we need to bring in a couple of other DE candidates (via FA and/or draft). All of our LBs seem to fit the mold of an ILB in the 3-4. I'm guessing that they'll find two good ones from the group. At OLB, I could see Kampman and a surprise like Hunter or Thompson. Brady Poppinga was a DE in college, so he could probably get a bit bigger without losing too much speed.

[texaspackerbacker]

I think Kampman stays at DE even in the 3-4, and does a good job.

Chillar and Popinga are clearly OLBs.

I think Harrell ends up rotating with or backing up Pickett at NT.

[Waldo]

What is the difference between Poppinga when he got to the NFL and Kampman right now?

Aside from Kamp being bigger, taller, stronger, a better pass rusher, and a hell of a lot better football player overall.

Kamp is a prototype 3-4 SOLB size-wise.

Greg Ellis, LaMarr Woodley....

Both are very similar to Kamp.

[pbmax]

I would be stunned if Cole stayed. He continually gets pushed back esp. on double teams. I cannot envision him as a viable backup NT.

Agree on the LBs, although I think Chillar might have a shot at OLB. He isn't Harrison, but he is fast and quick and might be able to play the weak side.

[The Shadow]

Kamp : a good football player is a good football player.
You could incorporate him into any scheme.
He can stop the run, he can rush the passer.
Those guys are the linchpins of any good defense.

"I think Aaron Kampman is one of those guys that is a football player and we’ll find a way to use him and he’ll be fine," Thompson said. "You never have too many good football players. And if you design a system where a good football player can’t find into it, then it’s a bad system. So that won’t be a problem."

Thompson said he would sit down with McCarthy and Capers when he returns to Green Bay to find out what kinds of players they want — and adjust scouting reports accordingly — but added that he would always be looking for one key trait.

"Good football players, you can find a way to use them," Thompson said.

[The Shadow]

It will be extremely interesting to see if players like Thompson, Hunter, and Montgomery = even Rouse - can find a great little niche in the 3-4.

[DonHutson]

Kamp : a good football player is a good football player.
You could incorporate him into any scheme.
He can stop the run, he can rush the passer.
Those guys are the linchpins of any good defense.

"I think Aaron Kampman is one of those guys that is a football player and we’ll find a way to use him and he’ll be fine," Thompson said. "You never have too many good football players. And if you design a system where a good football player can’t find into it, then it’s a bad system. So that won’t be a problem."

Thompson said he would sit down with McCarthy and Capers when he returns to Green Bay to find out what kinds of players they want — and adjust scouting reports accordingly — but added that he would always be looking for one key trait.

"Good football players, you can find a way to use them," Thompson said.

I'm glad Ted said it so I don't have to. If Capers isn't clever enough to utilize a player like Kampman then we hired the wrong guy. Capers and Mike talked for two days about personnel, defensive philosophy, etc. I'm sure they talked about Kampman, and how they'd use him.

Kampman initially played closer to 280#. He shed weight to add some quickness. They'll determine the right balance to fit what they want him to do. And no question, he'll bust his ass to do what they want. I'm not worried about him at all.