62% to 31%

[texaspackerbacker]

That is the percentage of Republicans compared to Democrats approving of Israel's cleaning house of the Hamas terrorists in Gaza.

I was just wondering if our forum Dem/libs are similarly unenlightened with regard to our good and valuable ally and its actions against a clearly evil enemy. The 31% figure is surprising even for America-hating leftists.

I expect Israel to take more and more unilateral action against their evil genocidal enemies over the next four years, as they undoubtedly have a lot less confidence in the Obama crowd to take their side against the Muslim enemy than the Bush Administration did.

[LL2]

I think Isreal took action before Obama takes office for a reason, because they know he will not be a strong supporter of Isreal. I think isreal is justified in attacking Hamas. The Hamas people are a perpetual thorn in Isreal's side always doing suicide bombs and crap. If you think about it Isreal is surrounded by enemies on all sides in the mideast. I would hate to live there.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Isreal is in a no-win situation.

I doubt they will achieve very much by this war.

I am not following the situation too closely because it is all so gloomy and hopeless. It bothers me that the Europeans and Arabs expect Isreal to accept terms that will lead to its destruction. Isreal had very foolish policies from 1985-2005, the expansion into Gaza and West Bank brought on much of this mess.

Obama will be pro-Israel, not much different from Bush.

[Joemailman]

I agree that Israel won't gain much, at least not long term. It sounds like they are not looking to remove Hamas from power, so Hamas will probably be back at some point, and the whole sorry spectacle will repeat itself.

Obama will be pro-Israel, but I think you be that and still be more balanced than Bush has been. Being pro-Israel does not mean agreeing with every decision made by the Israeli government. It does mean recognizing Israel's right to defend itself against terrorism.

[MJZiggy]

I'm all for Israel defending itself, unfortunately in this situation, I think they're making themselves out to look like the bully and it will become easier for terrorists to convince people that terrorism is the only way to fight back against the big bully. I don't see this bringing them any lasting peace. I wish they'd all figure out a way to put down the damn rockets and work it out. Ain't gonna happen, but I can wish for it.

[TravisWilliams23]

If Israel feels the new US leadership will not assist or help they may
be more inclined to attack without concern about world perception.

They're going to get condemned no matter what, so might as well do
what they have to do. If Hamas is going to fire rockets from civilian homes
then innocent civilians are going to be killed in a retaliatory response.

Fortunately for Israel they aren't imposing on their own soldiers the Rules of Engagement our military places on US soldiers.

http://www.nbc-links.com/roe.html
This site shows just how stupid our ROE are.

[digitaldean]

I think the thing the MSM glossed over (especially with the shelling of the UN schools in Gaza) is that Hamas fires their rockets from residential areas and schools.

Hamas has fired hundreds of rockets into Israel since the last ceasefire, which Hamas violated.

If Mexicans were firing hundreds of rockets from Nuevo Laredo, Mexico into Laredo, Texas, do you think we would sit idly by and show "restraint"? Highly unlikely.

I understand why Israel did this when they did. One, their people had enough of these attacks. Two, they were uneasy on the amt. of support they'd get from the new Obama admin.

I don't want to see innocent civilians killed. Heard on CBS radio tonight that Israel offered a ceasefire if Hamas would stop the rocket attacks. Hamas refused.

By the way, Hamas has still never disavowed Israel's right to exist. Their publicly stated goal is to eliminate Israel. Why do you think Iran is funding Hamas and Hezbollah with so many weapons?

[Partial]

The whole concept of Israel pisses me right the f off. They are the cause of so many problems, and it would have worked out if they had taken the land from Germany as part of ww2.

[LL2]

The whole concept of Israel pisses me right the f off. They are the cause of so many problems, and it would have worked out if they had taken the land from Germany as part of ww2.

How does the concept of Israel piss you off? Also, how the heck is Israel a concept? It's been a nation longer than most in the world has ever been a country. It has the right to peacefully exist just like Switzerland.

[Partial]

The whole concept of Israel pisses me right the f off. They are the cause of so many problems, and it would have worked out if they had taken the land from Germany as part of ww2.

How does the concept of Israel piss you off? Also, how the heck is Israel a concept? It's been a nation longer than most in the world has ever been a country. It has the right to peacefully exist just like Switzerland.

They took land that didn't belong to them and claimed it as there own. They are the cause of so many wars in the middle east. That's the kind of crap that pisses me off.

Yes, I realize thats how America was founded.

[sheepshead]

i'll get blasted for this one too, but this brings to mind liberal Jews. I know you dont need to be an Israel first voter. But the left has made it clear time and time again they are radical Arab sympathizers. Look at Jimmy Carter, Hillary Clinton lip locking Yasser Arafat. Cynthia McKinney last week and the list goes on. I dont get it.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Obama will be pro-Israel, but I think you be that and still be more balanced than Bush has been. Being pro-Israel does not mean agreeing with every decision made by the Israeli government. It does mean recognizing Israel's right to defend itself against terrorism.

Obama is not going to pressure Israel any more than did Bush. And in my opinion, it is difficult to see exactly what Israel could do to turn the tide. What should we pressure them to do? They've already made it pretty clear that they are ready to withdraw from the occupied territies.

Shitty Isreali policies made a shitty situation. Yet now that the Israelis are forced by demographics to cut a deal, the Palestineans are in a mess.

Obama will not be seen as even-handed by the Arab world, as was thought in the campaign. The Honeymoon is already over, the first dose of reality has punctured the myth of Hussein Obama. He is now the Great Traitor for keeping silent on Gaza. The Arab World's position is so deadly and unfair to Israel that there would be no pleasing them anyway.

[sheepshead]

I agree that Israel won't gain much, at least not long term. It sounds like they are not looking to remove Hamas from power, so Hamas will probably be back at some point, and the whole sorry spectacle will repeat itself.

Obama will be pro-Israel, but I think you be that and still be more balanced than Bush has been. Being pro-Israel does not mean agreeing with every decision made by the Israeli government. It does mean recognizing Israel's right to defend itself against terrorism.

Do you have an example of an Israeli position that Bush supported that didn't include defending itself?

[sheepshead]

The whole concept of Israel pisses me right the f off. They are the cause of so many problems, and it would have worked out if they had taken the land from Germany as part of ww2.

nice

[Zool]

The whole concept of Israel pisses me right the f off. They are the cause of so many problems, and it would have worked out if they had taken the land from Germany as part of ww2.

Maybe we should just kill them all. I guess there's been plenty of people trying to do that for a couple years tho huh.

[texaspackerbacker]

Isreal is in a no-win situation.

I doubt they will achieve very much by this war.

I am not following the situation too closely because it is all so gloomy and hopeless. It bothers me that the Europeans and Arabs expect Isreal to accept terms that will lead to its destruction. Isreal had very foolish policies from 1985-2005, the expansion into Gaza and West Bank brought on much of this mess.

Obama will be pro-Israel, not much different from Bush.

A lot of good discussion over this whole issue.

Harlan, I disagree with pretty much all of this. Israel has learned a lot since they took on Hezbollah in Lebanon a few years ago. They seem to be carrying out a highly successful little war here. Their goal is simply to alleviate the genocidal threat to their people from this rocket-launching/suicide bombing terrorist enemy, and they are well on the way to accomplishing that.

Gloomy? This reminds me a little bit of '67 and '73 when about the only geopolitical good news in the world was Israel succeeding in its wars. We had to restrain them back then because of Cold War considerations that do not exist now. Hence, Bush--and Obama by his silence--have allowed our old attack dog to show its teeth and kick the crap out of Hamas and the Palestinians.

Ziggy, your post smacked of typical liberal naivete. Are you really that blind to the Good versus Evil aspect here--and the world in general? Israel has bent over backwards to prevent harm to innocents--while this sick evil terrorist enemy has deliberately done the classic bad guy thing of placing its terrorist assets--the warehouses and launch sites for the rockets--right in the middle of population centers, schools, mosques, etc. Hamas, on the other hand, as our and Israel's enemies have done for a couple of generations now, have intentionally been cowardly enough to attack innocent civilians. Yet you whine about Israel being a bully and act like it's all a matter of two morally equivalent forces battling each other. Get real!

Partial, there is, of course, a religious aspect to the establishment of modern Israel in the same geographic setting as Biblical Israel. While it might have been expedient to put it in Germany or the American west or wherever, that would not have satisfied the Jews (and large number of Christians too) who wanted it put where it is. And if it comes down to choosing whether to cater to the wishes of one side or the other, America certainly ought to go with our Judeo-Christian heritage over Muslims, who have set themselves up as enemies of western civilization pretty much since the time of Mohammed.

[Freak Out]

Anyone remember Muhammad Atta? In 1996 he saw news footage of a similar incident and wrote out a martyrdom will that same night.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/4162193/Gaza-medics-describe-horror-of-strike-which-killed-70.html

It just goes on and on and on.....

It doesn't matter who has the right to drop a bomb or fire a shell or a rocket civilians will always pay the highest price in any conflict like this....and sometimes someone else pays again many years later.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

The whole concept of Israel pisses me right the f off. They are the cause of so many problems, and it would have worked out if they had taken the land from Germany as part of ww2.

How does the concept of Israel piss you off? Also, how the heck is Israel a concept? It's been a nation longer than most in the world has ever been a country. It has the right to peacefully exist just like Switzerland.

They took land that didn't belong to them and claimed it as there own. They are the cause of so many wars in the middle east. That's the kind of crap that pisses me off.

Yes, I realize thats how America was founded.

First, dipshit, they didn't take anything and claim anything. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Cause? So, their very existence is justified grounds for war? :roll:

[SkinBasket]

Fat neo nazis piss me off.

[sheepshead]

Fat neo nazis piss me off.
HAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Joemailman]

The whole concept of Israel pisses me right the f off. They are the cause of so many problems, and it would have worked out if they had taken the land from Germany as part of ww2.

When the state of Israel was being formed, part of the Arab argument was "Why should we have to give up land because of what the Germans did to the Jews?" They felt Germany should have to provide land for a Jewish state. The argument had some validity at the time, but it's water under the bridge now.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

The whole concept of Israel pisses me right the f off. They are the cause of so many problems, and it would have worked out if they had taken the land from Germany as part of ww2.

When the state of Israel was being formed, part of the Arab argument was "Why should we have to give up land because of what the Germans did to the Jews?" They felt Germany should have to provide land for a Jewish state. The argument had some validity at the time, but it's water under the bridge now.

Giving up land? Hilarious. How long had they "owned" the land. Certainly not by a country.

I think you need a quick refresher in the ottoman empire and how it was divided by the europeans, British Mandate for Palestine, and the Balfour Declaration of 1917.

As for real ownership, jews owned quite a bit prior to the state being formed. Jews owned half the urban land, more rural land that was occupied and had structures on it, and close to half the citrus land.

The great disparity of land ownership was in ownership of uncultivable land.

Regardless of the creation of Israel, jews were moving there, starting business and thriving compared to Arabs in Palestine.

[texaspackerbacker]

I started this thread genuinely wondering whether our forum leftists would be as anti-Israel as they always are anti-American, anti-free enterprise, anti-Christian, and anti-just about everything else that is good.

Well, Tyrone, I have to say I am pleasantly surprised at your take about Israel. I've known Jewish liberals who were like that--extreme left on everything else, but pro-Israel, but it's pretty rare in general for those of you of the leftist persuasion.

I hope it doesn't all turn out to be a big pile of ..... sarcasm on your part.

[mraynrand]

I started this thread genuinely wondering whether our forum leftists would be as anti-Israel as they always are anti-American, anti-free enterprise, anti-Christian, and anti-just about everything else that is good.

Well, Tyrone, I have to say I am pleasantly surprised at your take about Israel. I've known Jewish liberals who were like that--extreme left on everything else, but pro-Israel, but it's pretty rare in general for those of you of the leftist persuasion.

I hope it doesn't all turn out to be a big pile of ..... sarcasm on your part.

Don't count your liberals before they've hatched. Ty was just trying to inject some truth into the thread - about the reality of how Jewish folks were returning to Palestine and buying and improving the land since the end of the 19th century. It should also be noted that the Palestinian population today is greater in Israel than it has ever been in that area and is also one of the best places to live for a Palestinian (Compared to the shithole 'refugee camps' in countries like Lebanon, the west bank, and of course, Gaza).

On a related note, Israel in a way shot themselves in the foot. They helped to promote Hamas as a way of bothering other radical Palestinian groups, like the PLO. Kinda like the U.S. supporting the Taliban progenitors in Afghanistan to bother the Soviets. How did that kid's song go...

"I know an old lady who swallowed a spider,
That wriggled and jiggled and tickled inside her.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly,
I don't know why she swallowed the fly,
Perhaps she'll die."

[arcilite]

I started this thread genuinely wondering whether our forum leftists would be as anti-Israel as they always are anti-American, anti-free enterprise, anti-Christian, and anti-just about everything else that is good.

Well, Tyrone, I have to say I am pleasantly surprised at your take about Israel. I've known Jewish liberals who were like that--extreme left on everything else, but pro-Israel, but it's pretty rare in general for those of you of the leftist persuasion.

I hope it doesn't all turn out to be a big pile of ..... sarcasm on your part.

I would say us American hating liberals are more anti-religion than anti-Christian.

[bobblehead]

I started this thread genuinely wondering whether our forum leftists would be as anti-Israel as they always are anti-American, anti-free enterprise, anti-Christian, and anti-just about everything else that is good.

Well, Tyrone, I have to say I am pleasantly surprised at your take about Israel. I've known Jewish liberals who were like that--extreme left on everything else, but pro-Israel, but it's pretty rare in general for those of you of the leftist persuasion.

I hope it doesn't all turn out to be a big pile of ..... sarcasm on your part.

I would say us American hating liberals are more anti-religion than anti-Christian.

I think not. The ACLU fought for a muslim lady in florida to be able to wear the head and face cover in her drivers liscence piture, but against damn near everything christian. It seems they will fight for every religion on the planet but basically do anything they can to stomp out christianity....its the reason an agnostic like myself backs christians in political circles. They get treated differently and I have been about equality my whole life.

[arcilite]

Christians always claim they are being oppressed or something along those lines. Thats what bothers me.

[mraynrand]

I haven't complained about oppression since they fed me to the lions (got better).

Don't you know that Christians have a long history of meting out Oppression - just think of the millions slaughtered, unprovoked, by Christians during the crusades...
Help Help, I'm being repressed!
http://www.affordablehousinginstitute.org/blogs/us/Grail_being_repressed_small.jpg

[digitaldean]

Bloody peasant!! :lol:

[texaspackerbacker]

I started this thread genuinely wondering whether our forum leftists would be as anti-Israel as they always are anti-American, anti-free enterprise, anti-Christian, and anti-just about everything else that is good.

Well, Tyrone, I have to say I am pleasantly surprised at your take about Israel. I've known Jewish liberals who were like that--extreme left on everything else, but pro-Israel, but it's pretty rare in general for those of you of the leftist persuasion.

I hope it doesn't all turn out to be a big pile of ..... sarcasm on your part.

I would say us American hating liberals are more anti-religion than anti-Christian.

Probably true (or at least I thought so before reading BHead's post). The thing is, if you're in America, the primary religion for ya'all to hate is Christian. Besides, the others are wrong and eminently hateable anyway.

It is true, though, that there are at least as many America-hating leftists with the ACLU-like mentality BHead cited, as there are like you, arcilite, who are equal opportunity haters--just having more opporunity to hate Christians.

Anyway, it was refreshing to see that Tyrone's usual leftist hate-speak didn't spill over to Israel. How about you, arcilite--and the rest of you lefties too?

[Freak Out]

If Israel feels the new US leadership will not assist or help they may
be more inclined to attack without concern about world perception.

They're going to get condemned no matter what, so might as well do
what they have to do. If Hamas is going to fire rockets from civilian homes
then innocent civilians are going to be killed in a retaliatory response.

Fortunately for Israel they aren't imposing on their own soldiers the Rules of Engagement our military places on US soldiers.

http://www.nbc-links.com/roe.html
This site shows just how stupid our ROE are.

Sorry but that's not how it works Travis.

[Freak Out]

I think the thing the MSM glossed over (especially with the shelling of the UN schools in Gaza) is that Hamas fires their rockets from residential areas and schools.

Hamas has fired hundreds of rockets into Israel since the last ceasefire, which Hamas violated.

If Mexicans were firing hundreds of rockets from Nuevo Laredo, Mexico into Laredo, Texas, do you think we would sit idly by and show "restraint"? Highly unlikely.


Yes we would show restraint...stop insulting US Troops.

[digitaldean]

I think the thing the MSM glossed over (especially with the shelling of the UN schools in Gaza) is that Hamas fires their rockets from residential areas and schools.

Hamas has fired hundreds of rockets into Israel since the last ceasefire, which Hamas violated.

If Mexicans were firing hundreds of rockets from Nuevo Laredo, Mexico into Laredo, Texas, do you think we would sit idly by and show "restraint"? Highly unlikely.


Yes we would show restraint...stop insulting US Troops.
:?:

Sorry for my lack of perception, but is that sarcasm? Didn't think I was, just illustrating a point.

[texaspackerbacker]

Restraint--or the lack of it--comes from a higher level--the Rules of Engagement thing referred to earlier. Of course, American troops, and probably to almost as great an extent, Israeli troops show individual restraint--which mostly means abiding by the rules of engagement. That goes along with the whole Good versus Evil concept--we are a helluva lot more civilized and virtuous--and I include the Israelis in "we"--than pretty much any of the enemies we have fought in the last century or so. Anybody that denies or doesn't believe that has a wrongheaded America-hate or western civilization-hate bias.

The prospect of Israel distrusting--either rightly or wrongly--the Obama Administration to back them and not follow some moral equivalency based equal treatment for genocidal terrorists policy will likely lead to an increase in unilateral Israeli action in the next four years. That doesn't mean Israel degenerating to the level of barbarism of their enemies, however.

[TravisWilliams23]

If Israel feels the new US leadership will not assist or help they may
be more inclined to attack without concern about world perception.

They're going to get condemned no matter what, so might as well do
what they have to do. If Hamas is going to fire rockets from civilian homes
then innocent civilians are going to be killed in a retaliatory response.

Fortunately for Israel they aren't imposing on their own soldiers the Rules of Engagement our military places on US soldiers.

http://www.nbc-links.com/roe.html
This site shows just how stupid our ROE are.

Sorry but that's not how it works Travis.

In know. It was meant to be sarcasm about the ROE's. :D

If you get a chance, read Lone Survivor by Marcus Luttrell. The ROE
imposed upon our military indirectly caused the lives of 3 Navy Seals.
Because the Seal team couldn't contact the "proper authorities" when
3 Afghani civilians stumbled upon their location, the team had to make
a decision to kill them or let them go free.

Since the team didn't want to be later charged with "murder", they decided
to free them. The Afghani's went directly to the Taliban to report the Seals
location and the fire fight that ensued took the lives of 3 Navy Seals.
That's total bullshit and you can't expect soldiers fighting for their lives
to have to make those kinds of decisions on the battle field.

[arcilite]

I started this thread genuinely wondering whether our forum leftists would be as anti-Israel as they always are anti-American, anti-free enterprise, anti-Christian, and anti-just about everything else that is good.

Well, Tyrone, I have to say I am pleasantly surprised at your take about Israel. I've known Jewish liberals who were like that--extreme left on everything else, but pro-Israel, but it's pretty rare in general for those of you of the leftist persuasion.

I hope it doesn't all turn out to be a big pile of ..... sarcasm on your part.

I would say us American hating liberals are more anti-religion than anti-Christian.

Probably true (or at least I thought so before reading BHead's post). The thing is, if you're in America, the primary religion for ya'all to hate is Christian. Besides, the others are wrong and eminently hateable anyway.

It is true, though, that there are at least as many America-hating leftists with the ACLU-like mentality BHead cited, as there are like you, arcilite, who are equal opportunity haters--just having more opporunity to hate Christians.

Anyway, it was refreshing to see that Tyrone's usual leftist hate-speak didn't spill over to Israel. How about you, arcilite--and the rest of you lefties too?

The entire area over there is just FUBAR.

I don't think I am educated enough on the issues to get into a lengthy debate over the topic, but I think I back Israel on this one issue. Hamas just seems to be up to no good and needs a swift ass-kicking or something.

[texaspackerbacker]

First Tyrone, now arcilite. You leftists--some of you at least--are showing up on the side of good, for once. I salute you--on this one issue, anyway.

[Freak Out]

White phosphorus anyone?

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/01/12/nytfrontpage/26441780.JPG

[mraynrand]

body parts, anyone? Enjoy your dinner - I'm sure these Israelis did before they were blown into little pieces of bloody flesh.

http://z.about.com/d/terrorism/1/0/g/1/-/-/dimona_bombing.jpg
http://www.israelnewsagency.com/haderaisraelterrorismiran1026.jpg
http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,224709,00.jpg

[Freak Out]

Are you saying the Israelis are no better than the terrorists?

[texaspackerbacker]

Are you saying the Israelis are no better than the terrorists?

Are you dense? He's illustrating the justification of Israeli actions.

[Freak Out]

Are you saying the Israelis are no better than the terrorists?

Are you dense? He's illustrating the justification of Israeli actions.

:lol:

Really?

[Freak Out]

Funny stuff.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/01/16/gaza_invasion/index.html

"In late June 2006, Israeli aircraft fired nine missiles at the transformers at the Gaza City Power Plant, the only electric power plant in the Occupied Territories. (One of the original partners in the project was Enron, but that's another story.) The missiles caused damage estimated at $15 million to $20 million and, for a time, made Gaza wholly reliant on electricity flows from Israel. The 140-megawatt power plant, owned by the Palestine Electric Co., was insured by the Overseas Private Investment Corp., an arm of the U.S. government. Thus the U.S. was providing fuel and materiel to the Israeli military, which destroyed the plant, but it was also paying to fix the damage. Call it cradle-to-grave service."

[texaspackerbacker]

I'd say that gives us--U.S.--leverage over the Palestinians--play ball and rein in the terrorists among you or get used to living in the dark.

[swede]

Funny stuff.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/01/16/gaza_invasion/index.html

"In late June 2006, Israeli aircraft fired nine missiles at the transformers at the Gaza City Power Plant, the only electric power plant in the Occupied Territories. (One of the original partners in the project was Enron, but that's another story.) The missiles caused damage estimated at $15 million to $20 million and, for a time, made Gaza wholly reliant on electricity flows from Israel. The 140-megawatt power plant, owned by the Palestine Electric Co., was insured by the Overseas Private Investment Corp., an arm of the U.S. government. Thus the U.S. was providing fuel and materiel to the Israeli military, which destroyed the plant, but it was also paying to fix the damage. Call it cradle-to-grave service."

Oh, it's funny when terrorists fire missiles into Israel from a power plant that provides energy to the citizens of Gaza? And it is funny that Israel restores that energy supply to the citizens of Gaza rather than cut them off for protecting the terrorists of Hamas?

Not all irony is humorous.

Edit: Wait a minute. This blurb is from Salon in 2006!

I certainly don't see the relevance without the context of the action, but then...if Salon's readers expected fairness and context it would have none.

[Freak Out]

Did you read it?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Did you read it?

No need to do that...they'll just wait for Rush to tell them what to think.

[HowardRoark]

Did you read it?

No need to do that...they'll just wait for Rush to tell them what to think.

What do they know that's so damn important?
http://images.starpulse.com/Photos/Previews/Rush-band-w06.jpg

[Freak Out]

Rush still kicks ass after all these years.

Bigguns is a big Rush fan.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Rush still kicks ass after all these years.

Bigguns is a big Rush fan.

Ty hates Rush.

[HowardRoark]

Rush still kicks ass after all these years.

Bigguns is a big Rush fan.

Ty hates Rush.

Hate is not a family value. Or something.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Rush still kicks ass after all these years.

Bigguns is a big Rush fan.

Ty hates Rush.

Hate is not a family value. Or something.

When has Ty espoused family values?

[HowardRoark]

Rush still kicks ass after all these years.

Bigguns is a big Rush fan.

Ty hates Rush.

Hate is not a family value. Or something.

When has Ty espoused family values?

You claim to get your values from your family. These values then define your morality.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Rush still kicks ass after all these years.

Bigguns is a big Rush fan.

Ty hates Rush.

Hate is not a family value. Or something.

When has Ty espoused family values?

You claim to get your values from your family. These values then define your morality.

I did? I don't recall that I said every value was derived from my family.

Nonetheless, how do you know what my family values are?

You are speaking out of turn...again.