National Championship QBs

[Partial]

Anybody still think either of these guys have what it takes to be star NFL qbs? I surely do not. Tebow has the ideal physique, but he doesn't have a good enough arm.

Bradford doesn't have either.

Yikes, I don't like either of these guys as top QBs. I do however like Florida's DC. He called a very good game imo.

[channtheman]

The top schools always get all the hype about their QB's and their RB's but truly, the best players are found in the smaller schools. Where did Matt Ryan come from, Boston College. Yes it's a big school and he had scouts all over him but he wasn't from USC or Oklahoma. Guys like Jamarcus Russel, Matt Leinart, etc get the hype but really aren't cut out for the pros. Another guy from a smaller school is Flacco. I think he was at Delaware.

[Lurker64]

Tebow's mechanics are a mess. If he has a future in the NFL, it's as an H-Back and a 3rd QB.

[channtheman]

Tebow's mechanics are a mess. If he has a future in the NFL, it's as an H-Back and a 3rd QB.

I thought Tebow might be converted to a Tight End or something like that.

[Bossman641]

Not really impressed by either of them. I expected more from Bradford. I don't see Tebow having a future in the NFL as a QB. I will give him this though. When he absolutely has to make an accurate throw, he usually makes them. I was impressed by his decision-making on the triple options. Florida has to be an absolute nightmare to try and gameplan against. I really like the one option play they have where Tebow rolls out and has the option to toss it to Harvin, shovel pass it to the TE, or keep it for himself.

[Bretsky]

Anybody still think either of these guys have what it takes to be star NFL qbs? I surely do not. Tebow has the ideal physique, but he doesn't have a good enough arm.

Bradford doesn't have either.

Yikes, I don't like either of these guys as top QBs. I do however like Florida's DC. He called a very good game imo.


Tebow is a winner; my guess is he does fine in the NFL

[Noodle]

I also thought that shovel option was sweet -- and as an old Nebraska fan, I consider myself a connoisseur of option football.

It'd be nice to see some of that kind of imaginative play-design in GB.

I actually thought Bradford was pretty damn good. I could see him developing in the Brady/Ryan mold. The biggest thing going against him is that he looks like a high school kid. But dude can ball.

[Bossman641]

It'd be nice to see some of that kind of imaginative play-design in GB.

I'd really like to see what would happen if Meyer tried to run his offense in the NFL. All we've ever heard is that NFL defenses are too fast and complex for all the option plays seen in college to work. I'd guess a Florida style offense wouldn't work, however look at how successful the Wilcat was this year.

[MadtownPacker]

Tebow is a winner; my guess is he does fine in the NFLBrestky approves? Curse of death for any NFL hopeful.

[Fritz]

Mad, why can't we get Bretsk's official blessing on every draft pick of every other team in the NFC North?

[sheepshead]

Come on Rodgers bashers, which one do we take???

[Fritz]

I'm really nothugely impressed with Stafford or Bradford. And Tebow will be a solid NFL H-back, but nothing more.

[Zool]

Come on Rodgers bashers, which one do we take???

Its statements like this that start bitch fights and you are getting bad about it again lately. Enough.

[Packgator]

I do however like Florida's DC. He called a very good game imo.

Charlie Strong. He'll be a head coach soon. Actually he's already been a head coach.......for one game. He was head coach for the Gators bowl game the year Ron Zook got fired.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Tebow is so far from an NFL QB it's not even funny.

Bradford will make a solid NFL QB so long as he has a year to bulk up and get some time learning a system on the bench and watching how a vet handles things.

Stafford played in a pro style offense where he had to read defenses while dropping back. He's probably the most mentally ready of the big 3, however that all goes out the window if the Lions take him as his career is screwed.

[sheepshead]

Come on Rodgers bashers, which one do we take???

Its statements like this that start bitch fights and you are getting bad about it again lately. Enough.


No actually absurdity helps to illustrate a point. We are not entitled to make a point any longer?

[cpk1994]

Come on Rodgers bashers, which one do we take???

Its statements like this that start bitch fights and you are getting bad about it again lately. Enough.


No actually absurdity helps to illustrate a point. We are not entitled to make a point any longer?Let's rephrase the question then: "For those that don't like Rodgers as the Packers starting QB, which one should TT take?"

[channtheman]

Come on Rodgers bashers, which one do we take???

Its statements like this that start bitch fights and you are getting bad about it again lately. Enough.


No actually absurdity helps to illustrate a point. We are not entitled to make a point any longer?Let's rephrase the question then: "For those that don't like Rodgers as the Packers starting QB, which one should TT take?"

Sheepshead and cpk, you both know that the only reason to write stuff like that is to incite flames and that is text book trolling. We would all appreciate if you didn't do that, as it makes you no better than any troll.

[sheepshead]

I'm sorry, but you're mistaken. I actually have a very good and valid point and this is my way of illustrating it. Notice, we have yet to hear from any Rodgers haters. Of which there seem to be plenty over the last few months.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I'm sorry, but you're mistaken. I actually have a very good and valid point and this is my way of illustrating it. Notice, we have yet to hear from any Rodgers haters. Of which there seem to be plenty over the last few months.

The point you are trying to make has no purpose in this thread. The discussion revolves around the merits of Bradford and Tebow and has nothing to do with Rodgers.

Therefore, you are trolling.

[sheepshead]

I'm sorry, but you're mistaken. I actually have a very good and valid point and this is my way of illustrating it. Notice, we have yet to hear from any Rodgers haters. Of which there seem to be plenty over the last few months.

The point you are trying to make has no purpose in this thread. The discussion revolves around the merits of Bradford and Tebow and has nothing to do with Rodgers.

Therefore, you are trolling.

Bradford and Tebow have entered the draft. We have draft picks. Some people dont think Aaron Rodgers is a very good quarterback. Maybe we should select on of those fellows with our draft pick. And you, in the meantime can kindly go and fuck yourself.

[mission]

I'm sorry, but you're mistaken. I actually have a very good and valid point and this is my way of illustrating it. Notice, we have yet to hear from any Rodgers haters. Of which there seem to be plenty over the last few months.

The point you are trying to make has no purpose in this thread. The discussion revolves around the merits of Bradford and Tebow and has nothing to do with Rodgers.

Therefore, you are trolling.

Bradford and Tebow have entered the draft. We have draft picks. Some people dont think Aaron Rodgers is a very good quarterback. Maybe we should select on of those fellows with our draft pick. And you, in the meantime can kindly go and fuck yourself.

If that's really what you're suggesting (even mildly), then I'm sorry, but you're retarded.

[sheepshead]

Oh my God.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I'm sorry, but you're mistaken. I actually have a very good and valid point and this is my way of illustrating it. Notice, we have yet to hear from any Rodgers haters. Of which there seem to be plenty over the last few months.

The point you are trying to make has no purpose in this thread. The discussion revolves around the merits of Bradford and Tebow and has nothing to do with Rodgers.

Therefore, you are trolling.

Bradford and Tebow have entered the draft. We have draft picks. Some people dont think Aaron Rodgers is a very good quarterback. Maybe we should select on of those fellows with our draft pick. And you, in the meantime can kindly go and fuck yourself.

Again, the thread was about the merits of them being superstars in the NFL. Try reading for once.

The thread isn't about the merits of them being drafted by the pack.

Keep trolling, moron.

P.S. You might want to think a bit before you try justifying your lame argument. Neither Bradford nor Tebow have entered the draft.

Buh bye. :oops:

[Charles Woodson]

I also thought that shovel option was sweet -- and as an old Nebraska fan, I consider myself a connoisseur of option football.

It'd be nice to see some of that kind of imaginative play-design in GB.

I actually thought Bradford was pretty damn good. I could see him developing in the Brady/Ryan mold. The biggest thing going against him is that he looks like a high school kid. But dude can ball.

Exactly, Idk why everyone is down on bradford... I think if the Refs would have actually called pass interference then it woulda been a different game.. There were at least 3 calls on PI that werent made, for instance the first hit, major wright made on iglesia, it was almost perfect but the dude never gave him a chance to catch the ball, i think he hit him too early...

But bradford made some pretty impressive throws, Tebow will teblow in the NFL imo

[sheepshead]

I'm sorry, but you're mistaken. I actually have a very good and valid point and this is my way of illustrating it. Notice, we have yet to hear from any Rodgers haters. Of which there seem to be plenty over the last few months.

The point you are trying to make has no purpose in this thread. The discussion revolves around the merits of Bradford and Tebow and has nothing to do with Rodgers.

Therefore, you are trolling.

Bradford and Tebow have entered the draft. We have draft picks. Some people dont think Aaron Rodgers is a very good quarterback. Maybe we should select on of those fellows with our draft pick. And you, in the meantime can kindly go and fuck yourself.

Again, the thread was about the merits of them being superstars in the NFL. Try reading for once.

The thread isn't about the merits of them being drafted by the pack.

Keep trolling, moron.

P.S. You might want to think a bit before you try justifying your lame argument. Neither Bradford nor Tebow have entered the draft.

Buh bye. :oops:

You really must have something else to do, besides your famous hairsplitting on my comments.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

^^

Exactly how many posters have to call you out before you being your self examination?

Hairsplitting? You mean like being completely wrong about who is in the draft. :oops:

[sheepshead]

go away

[Tyrone Bigguns]

go away

Easier if you do.

[rbaloha1]

IMO Bradford is the best draft eligible qb. Great size with an accurate arm. Plays in a pro style offense. Warrants the #1 overall pic due to the need for a qb and 09 not being the best year for qbs. Not a Matt Ryan but eventually will be good.

Tebow is not a franchise qb. Project as a h-back and back up qb. IMO the Dolphins should select in round 2. Except for the Dolphins Tebow is probably a round 3 selection.

[sheepshead]

Bigguns, You know you can go off on minutia and so far off topic you need a GPS device to get back. Why do you have to be such a dick and try to enforce some fucked up protocol that you nor anyone else can here could possibly live up to? what a jag bag.

[Charles Woodson]

IMO Bradford is the best draft eligible qb. Great size with an accurate arm. Plays in a pro style offense. Warrants the #1 overall pic due to the need for a qb and 09 not being the best year for qbs. Not a Matt Ryan but eventually will be good.

Tebow is not a franchise qb. Project as a h-back and back up qb. IMO the Dolphins should select in round 2. Except for the Dolphins Tebow is probably a round 3 selection.
eh, the lions would be stupid to take a QB here... can anyone say joey harrington the second?

secondly i think Tebow has said hes staying

[LEWCWA]

Come on Rodgers bashers, which one do we take???

Its statements like this that start bitch fights and you are getting bad about it again lately. Enough.


No actually absurdity helps to illustrate a point. We are not entitled to make a point any longer?Let's rephrase the question then: "For those that don't like Rodgers as the Packers starting QB, which one should TT take?"

Who around here wasn't fairly impressed with the way Rodgers played this season?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Bigguns, You know you can go off on minutia and so far off topic you need a GPS device to get back. Why do you have to be such a dick and try to enforce some fucked up protocol that you nor anyone else can here could possibly live up to? what a jag bag.

Who is enforcing anything.

Let's recap.

1. you are trolling
2. you are off topic
3. you are factually wrong (tebow nor bradford has at this time entered the draft)

Buh bye.

[Lurker64]

Tebow's not coming out. I wonder what grade he got from the advisory board. I wouldn't be surprised if it was somewhere around "3rd".

[Pugger]

Well, we don't have to speculate about Tebow for another year. He announced he was returning to UF for his senior season.

[Packgator]

Tebow's not coming out. I wonder what grade he got from the advisory board. I wouldn't be surprised if it was somewhere around "3rd".

I heard he was told anywhere from late 1st to mid 3rd.

[Lurker64]

Tebow's not coming out. I wonder what grade he got from the advisory board. I wouldn't be surprised if it was somewhere around "3rd".

I heard he was told anywhere from late 1st to mid 3rd.

That sounds about right. Some team will take him in the first if they don't have a real need where there's value at that point in the draft (so nobody at the top) if they have a mad scientist offensive coordinator who is excited about schemes with a TE/H-Back/WR/RB/FB/QB combination that can do about 84 different things on one play, but probably shouldn't touch the ball on every play lest he get killed.

But if nobody fits that description, I don't see anybody drafting him on talent alone even though they're not really sure what to do with the guy until the about the third round.

[Zool]

Tebow's not coming out. I wonder what grade he got from the advisory board. I wouldn't be surprised if it was somewhere around "3rd".

I heard he was told anywhere from late 1st to mid 3rd.

That sounds about right. Some team will take him in the first if they don't have a real need where there's value at that point in the draft (so nobody at the top) if they have a mad scientist offensive coordinator who is excited about schemes with a TE/H-Back/WR/RB/FB/QB combination that can do about 84 different things on one play, but probably shouldn't touch the ball on every play lest he get killed.

But if nobody fits that description, I don't see anybody drafting him on talent alone even though they're not really sure what to do with the guy until the about the third round.

Its hard to say what will happen when a guy makes the jump (in this case in '10) but he just doesnt look like a QB or throw like a QB. He's a monster though and big enough to be a LB/FB.

In my completely uneducated opinion, he wont do much in the NFL at QB but if he accepts a gimmick role he'll do well. Has Bradford declared? I missed it if he did.

[mission]

Tebow won't come out but some of you guys suggest he'd be a mid rounder... I have a hard time (personally / armchair GM) passing on him through the first three rounds if I have *any* need at 2nd-3rd string QB ... I definitely see him as a TE, but that's the easy thing to say ...

What's the difference between Tebow and Vince Young besides, seemingly, a lot more stability and leadership? He's the kind of guy that I could see surprising a lot of people and being a decent NFL quarterback (totally against my gut).

[Lurker64]

What's the difference between Tebow and Vince Young besides, seemingly, a lot more stability and leadership? He's the kind of guy that I could see surprising a lot of people and being a decent NFL quarterback (totally against my gut).

The argument that Tebow is just as good as Vince Young would hold more water if Vince Young weren't such a colossal failure. I think that with the gift of hindsight, Vince Young would not be drafted in the first round, and this may (unfairly) hurt Tebow's draft status.

[mission]

What's the difference between Tebow and Vince Young besides, seemingly, a lot more stability and leadership? He's the kind of guy that I could see surprising a lot of people and being a decent NFL quarterback (totally against my gut).

The argument that Tebow is just as good as Vince Young would hold more water if Vince Young weren't such a colossal failure. I think that with the gift of hindsight, Vince Young would not be drafted in the first round, and this may (unfairly) hurt Tebow's draft status.

I don't know. Physical talent can't necessarily be attributed to Young's failure. The very things that led to Young's demise are where Tebow measures off the chart. I'm not saying he's going to be GOD in the NFL (or hell, even a QB at all), but I can't help but wonder about him and his (ready for it?) "IT" factor.

I have a hard time putting him in the Scott Frost / Antwaan Randel El school of good college quarterbacks who have no business trying to take that position to the next level.

[Partial]

What's the difference between Tebow and Vince Young besides, seemingly, a lot more stability and leadership? He's the kind of guy that I could see surprising a lot of people and being a decent NFL quarterback (totally against my gut).

The argument that Tebow is just as good as Vince Young would hold more water if Vince Young weren't such a colossal failure. I think that with the gift of hindsight, Vince Young would not be drafted in the first round, and this may (unfairly) hurt Tebow's draft status.

What are you talking about? How is he a colossal failure? Sometimes I wonder how some of you make it through the day..

He's taken a team to the playoffs, won rookie of the year, etc. By those measurements, if he's a colossal failure, I don't even want to know what Aaron Rodgers would be.

[Lurker64]

What are you talking about? How is he a colossal failure? Sometimes I wonder how some of you make it through the day..

He's taken a team to the playoffs, won rookie of the year, etc. By those measurements, if he's a colossal failure, I don't even want to know what Aaron Rodgers would be.

I think based on what a "washed up" veteran in Kerry Collins accomplished with essentially the same team this year, we can conclude that any accolades Young got for leading that team were undeserved. Tennessee lives and dies on their defense and their running game. Young has had precisely dick to do with their success. Remember, this is a team that with almost no production whatsoever from the 3rd overall pick of the 2006 draft, managed to win home field advantage. I would say that it's absolutely fair at this point to call Young a bust.

I think what may hurt Tebow is that yes, Tebow is off the charts in the way that Young is most defiicient (Young's a quitter, Tebow's a consummate competitor), Young just wasn't getting it done "as a quarterback." So Tebow probably just won't get the chance to be seriously considered as a starting QB in the NFL.

[Partial]

What are you talking about? How is he a colossal failure? Sometimes I wonder how some of you make it through the day..

He's taken a team to the playoffs, won rookie of the year, etc. By those measurements, if he's a colossal failure, I don't even want to know what Aaron Rodgers would be.

I think based on what a "washed up" veteran in Kerry Collins accomplished with essentially the same team this year, we can conclude that any accolades Young got for leading that team were undeserved. Tennessee lives and dies on their defense and their running game. Young has had precisely dick to do with their success.

Tenn is like the Packer team of last year. They were retooling for a few years, and are finally strong enough to be back in business. We'll see how they do next year with VY at QB. I'm predicting SUPERBOWL.

I think it's funny that everyone takes credit away from a proven winner like Young. Why has he had nothing to do with their successs? Did he not carry them to 3-4 come from behind wins in his rookie year (something our 4th year veteran QB has shown incapable of doing but some of you thinkh he is the second coming)?? My fucking god...

ROFL. rookie of the year, playoffs, elite athleticism 3 come from behind wins his rookie year, national championship, throwing to crap receivers,... at the most important position, yet he doesn't get any credit...

Are you seriously insinuating someone who has 3 comeback victories, possibly more, as a rookie, won rookie of the year, took a team to the playoffs in his second year all while having HORRENDOUS receivers wouldn't be picked in the first round? Are you kidding me? ROFL ROFL ROFL.

Knowing what we know about Young now and his success in the NFL, pending a psych evaluation (which I'm sure he's fine and itching to get back to playing) he is the unquestioned #1 pick in this draft.

6-10, 0 come from behind wins in his 4 year career, average athleticism, throwing the ball to two borderline all-pro receivers... at the most important position, yet he is the second coming.

Any credit that Aaron gets has to be given to VY. Except VY has far more personal achievements and success' to his name. Some of you guys are looney tunes. You value pointless stats (Chad Pennington syndrome) instead of WINS, COME BACKS, PLAYOFF TRIPS, etc.

Young hasn't had great success throwing the ball yet, I'll give you, but he has been in the league HALF the time of Aaron. He also started and took a team to the playoffs as a ROOKIE. LURKER, do you remember how unbelieveably AWFUL A-Rod looked as a rookie? Do you? Or are you choosing to ignore another extremely relevant fact. What about his second year, where he still looked awful in camp? Remember when Vince Young carried a team to the playoffs using his athleticism? Or are you choosing to ignore another extremely relevant fact.

This is the kind of crap that pisses me off. You don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Tim Tebow isn't nearly as athletic as Young. He doesn't have as strong of an arm. He doesn't have as accurate of an arm (neither is very accurate yet). I do like Tebow's physique. We'll see. He has shown that he is a heck of a leader, but I just don't see the raw skills to be an NFL QB.

[mission]

All that's great and all, Partial, but A-Rod, Tebow and lots of other people haven't been running around AWOL with guns in their car, depressed and suicidal, and contemplating retirement lately. The QB position is much more than talent ...

Word on the street is Fischer wants KC as his starter next year and fully expects it to be necessary regardless.

[Bossman641]

What are you talking about? How is he a colossal failure? Sometimes I wonder how some of you make it through the day..

He's taken a team to the playoffs, won rookie of the year, etc. By those measurements, if he's a colossal failure, I don't even want to know what Aaron Rodgers would be.

I think based on what a "washed up" veteran in Kerry Collins accomplished with essentially the same team this year, we can conclude that any accolades Young got for leading that team were undeserved. Tennessee lives and dies on their defense and their running game. Young has had precisely dick to do with their success.

Tenn is like the Packer team of last year. They were retooling for a few years, and are finally strong enough to be back in business. We'll see how they do next year with VY at QB. I'm predicting SUPERBOWL.

I think it's funny that everyone takes credit away from a proven winner like Young. Why has he had nothing to do with their successs? Did he not carry them to 3-4 come from behind wins in his rookie year (something our 4th year veteran QB has shown incapable of doing but some of you thinkh he is the second coming)?? My fucking god...

ROFL. rookie of the year, playoffs, elite athleticism 3 come from behind wins his rookie year, national championship, throwing to crap receivers,... at the most important position, yet he doesn't get any credit...

Are you seriously insinuating someone who has 3 comeback victories, possibly more, as a rookie, won rookie of the year, took a team to the playoffs in his second year all while having HORRENDOUS receivers wouldn't be picked in the first round? Are you kidding me? ROFL ROFL ROFL.

Knowing what we know about Young now and his success in the NFL, pending a psych evaluation (which I'm sure he's fine and itching to get back to playing) he is the unquestioned #1 pick in this draft.

6-10, 0 come from behind wins in his 4 year career, average athleticism, throwing the ball to two borderline all-pro receivers... at the most important position, yet he is the second coming.

Any credit that Aaron gets has to be given to VY. Except VY has far more personal achievements and success' to his name. Some of you guys are looney tunes. You value pointless stats (Chad Pennington syndrome) instead of WINS, COME BACKS, PLAYOFF TRIPS, etc.

Young hasn't had great success throwing the ball yet, I'll give you, but he has been in the league HALF the time of Aaron. He also started and took a team to the playoffs as a ROOKIE. LURKER, do you remember how unbelieveably AWFUL A-Rod looked as a rookie? Do you? Or are you choosing to ignore another extremely relevant fact. What about his second year, where he still looked awful in camp? Remember when Vince Young carried a team to the playoffs using his athleticism? Or are you choosing to ignore another extremely relevant fact.

This is the kind of crap that pisses me off. You don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Tim Tebow isn't nearly as athletic as Young. He doesn't have as strong of an arm. He doesn't have as accurate of an arm (neither is very accurate yet). I do like Tebow's physique. We'll see. He has shown that he is a heck of a leader, but I just don't see the raw skills to be an NFL QB.

I think I've figured you out Partial. You are willing to completely overlook the first 55 minutes of the game for a QB as long as they get it done in the last 5 minutes. On the defensive side of the ball, you are willing to completely forgive the final 10 minutes of the game as long as the defense played well the first 50 minutes.

That's the only way I can figure out how you give VY so much credit, and the Packer defense so little blame.

[Badgerinmaine]

The top schools always get all the hype about their QB's and their RB's but truly, the best players are found in the smaller schools. Where did Matt Ryan come from, Boston College. Yes it's a big school and he had scouts all over him but he wasn't from USC or Oklahoma. Guys like Jamarcus Russel, Matt Leinart, etc get the hype but really aren't cut out for the pros. Another guy from a smaller school is Flacco. I think he was at Delaware.
Yup, Flacco was a Fightin' Blue Hen.
I'd agree that small school QBs can do just fine (Tony Romo, out of Eastern Illinois, would be an even better example than Flacco; also, Ben Roethlisberger came out of a mid-major, Miami of Ohio), but I don't know that they are necessarily better choices than big-time program QBs. Peyton Manning (yes, I know I like him more than most of you) played at Tennessee when they were one of the top teams in the country. Tom Brady came out of Michigan. Carson Palmer played at Southern Cal and was playing extremely well until his injury in the playoffs a few years ago. Matt Cassell was a backup there and played very well for the Patriots this year. As for Leinart, I think the jury is still out on him; he's not playing now because Kurt Warner came on like a house of fire, but it takes time to develop QBs and I think he could still have a fine career.

It is true, though, that Heisman Trophy winning QBs have not been, as a group, above-average NFL QBs (though a few like Roger Staubach have been major NFL stars). Starting with Staubach (1963), here is the list from the Heisman's website:

Roger Staubach, Navy
John Huarte, Notre Dame
Gary Beban, UCLA
Jim Plunkett, Stanford
Pat Sullivan, Auburn
Doug Flutie, Boston College
Vinny Testaverde, Miami of Florida
Andre Ware, Houston
Ty Detmer, Brigham Young
Gino Torretta, Miami of Florida
Danny Wuerffel, Florida
Chris Weinke, Florida St.
Eric Crouch, Nebraska
Carson Palmer, Southern Cal
Jason White, Oklahoma
Matt Leinart, Southern Cal
Troy Smith, The Ohio State University
Tim Tebow, Florida
Sam Bradford, Oklahoma

[Partial]

I think I've figured you out Partial. You are willing to completely overlook the first 55 minutes of the game for a QB as long as they get it done in the last 5 minutes. On the defensive side of the ball, you are willing to completely forgive the final 10 minutes of the game as long as the defense played well the first 50 minutes.

That's the only way I can figure out how you give VY so much credit, and the Packer defense so little blame.

You give credit to winners. If Vince Young wins (all he has ever done), thats all that matters. If he continues playing like he has and leading teams to wins like he has, he'll be one of the all-time greats.

Defensively, if I hold a good offense to 20 points, my team did the job. The Packers aren't the Ravens and they know that. It's not their identity to hold another team under 17 points per game. Teams are going to score the more chances you give them. 3 and outs in the second half lead to a tired defense and more attempts. Even the most inept offense is going to score given enough chances.

[SkinBasket]

Where's the adulation for Trent Dilfer then?

[Zool]

You give credit to winners. If Vince Young wins (all he has ever done), thats all that matters. If he continues playing like he has and leading teams to wins like he has, he'll be one of the all-time greats.


You might want to check out some career Vince numbers. QB's that throw 9TD's and 17INT's in a season are NOT the reason their team won. Good lord he won ROTY on that one run in the 4th quarter. The guy had a 51.5 completion % in his rookie year. If he couldn't run the way he does he would be Joey Harrington.

All time greats? That has to be one of the dumbest things I've read here in a long time.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/Y/YounVi00.htm

Shit Vick can run like the fucking wind. Maybe he should be an all-time great too.

[Bossman641]

I think I've figured you out Partial. You are willing to completely overlook the first 55 minutes of the game for a QB as long as they get it done in the last 5 minutes. On the defensive side of the ball, you are willing to completely forgive the final 10 minutes of the game as long as the defense played well the first 50 minutes.

That's the only way I can figure out how you give VY so much credit, and the Packer defense so little blame.

You give credit to winners. If Vince Young wins (all he has ever done), thats all that matters. If he continues playing like he has and leading teams to wins like he has, he'll be one of the all-time greats.

Defensively, if I hold a good offense to 20 points, my team did the job. The Packers aren't the Ravens and they know that. It's not their identity to hold another team under 17 points per game. Teams are going to score the more chances you give them. 3 and outs in the second half lead to a tired defense and more attempts. Even the most inept offense is going to score given enough chances.

They won in spite of him (for the most part). Look at his stats. Just because he made a couple plays late in the game WITH HIS FEET does not make him a good QB. His numbers were horrible.

I'll even concede that his WR's weren't good, but it doesn't even matter. VY on this year's Packer team would have sucked. You could have Rice and Moss lined up wide and it wouldn't matter when Young is sailing the ball 5 yards behind WR's and 5 yards over their heads.

[Partial]

I think I've figured you out Partial. You are willing to completely overlook the first 55 minutes of the game for a QB as long as they get it done in the last 5 minutes. On the defensive side of the ball, you are willing to completely forgive the final 10 minutes of the game as long as the defense played well the first 50 minutes.

That's the only way I can figure out how you give VY so much credit, and the Packer defense so little blame.

You give credit to winners. If Vince Young wins (all he has ever done), thats all that matters. If he continues playing like he has and leading teams to wins like he has, he'll be one of the all-time greats.

Defensively, if I hold a good offense to 20 points, my team did the job. The Packers aren't the Ravens and they know that. It's not their identity to hold another team under 17 points per game. Teams are going to score the more chances you give them. 3 and outs in the second half lead to a tired defense and more attempts. Even the most inept offense is going to score given enough chances.

They won in spite of him (for the most part). Look at his stats. Just because he made a couple plays late in the game WITH HIS FEET does not make him a good QB. His numbers were horrible.

I'll even concede that his WR's weren't good, but it doesn't even matter. VY on this year's Packer team would have sucked. You could have Rice and Moss lined up wide and it wouldn't matter when Young is sailing the ball 5 yards behind WR's and 5 yards over their heads.

And Rodgers numbers were ok, and the Packers lost with him. What does that tell you? This team is still playing with VY at QB. ROFL.

[Zool]

And Rodgers numbers were ok, and the Packers lost with him. What does that tell you? This team is still playing with VY at QB. ROFL.

That your argument skills are nil. The Titans lost there satchmo.

Vince Young 0/0 0yds 0td 0int 0ypa

QB rating of 0. I tell you what tho, that spot of his on the bench was well held down for the entire loss.

[SkinBasket]

This team is still playing with VY at QB. ROFL.

What the mother fuck? Time to tighten those Velcro shoes there genius.

[HarveyWallbangers]

It's news to Partial that Kerry Collins has been quarterbacking the Titans this year? That's funny.

[Bossman641]

I think I've figured you out Partial. You are willing to completely overlook the first 55 minutes of the game for a QB as long as they get it done in the last 5 minutes. On the defensive side of the ball, you are willing to completely forgive the final 10 minutes of the game as long as the defense played well the first 50 minutes.

That's the only way I can figure out how you give VY so much credit, and the Packer defense so little blame.

You give credit to winners. If Vince Young wins (all he has ever done), thats all that matters. If he continues playing like he has and leading teams to wins like he has, he'll be one of the all-time greats.

Defensively, if I hold a good offense to 20 points, my team did the job. The Packers aren't the Ravens and they know that. It's not their identity to hold another team under 17 points per game. Teams are going to score the more chances you give them. 3 and outs in the second half lead to a tired defense and more attempts. Even the most inept offense is going to score given enough chances.

They won in spite of him (for the most part). Look at his stats. Just because he made a couple plays late in the game WITH HIS FEET does not make him a good QB. His numbers were horrible.

I'll even concede that his WR's weren't good, but it doesn't even matter. VY on this year's Packer team would have sucked. You could have Rice and Moss lined up wide and it wouldn't matter when Young is sailing the ball 5 yards behind WR's and 5 yards over their heads.

And Rodgers numbers were ok, and the Packers lost with him. What does that tell you? This team is still playing with VY at QB. ROFL.

You're telling me that if this year's Packer team had VY instead of Rodgers they would still be playing??? PLEASE explain how - would he play defense?

[Bossman641]

It's news to Partial that Kerry Collins has been quarterbacking the Titans this year? That's funny.

Easy boys. I think Partial was saying that if the Packers had Young instead of Rodgers they would still be playing.

Stupid, but not quite as stupid as Partial thinking Young QB'ed the Titans all year.

You may now continue with your ridiculing.

[SkinBasket]

Thanks for clearing that up Bossman. I think you may be right about just what flavor of stupid Partial was pushing today in his trolling efforts.

[Partial]

trolling efforts? How quick you are to write off someone who has done nothing but won. Donovan McNabb and Tom Brady weren't the best passers in the league when they first entered, either. And they had better receivers!

Some of this stuff is laughable. You'd think Young was the worst QB from the comments in here. "Win in spite of". ROFL.

[Partial]

You give credit to winners. If Vince Young wins (all he has ever done), thats all that matters. If he continues playing like he has and leading teams to wins like he has, he'll be one of the all-time greats.


You might want to check out some career Vince numbers. QB's that throw 9TD's and 17INT's in a season are NOT the reason their team won. Good lord he won ROTY on that one run in the 4th quarter. The guy had a 51.5 completion % in his rookie year. If he couldn't run the way he does he would be Joey Harrington.

All time greats? That has to be one of the dumbest things I've read here in a long time.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/Y/YounVi00.htm

Shit Vick can run like the fucking wind. Maybe he should be an all-time great too.

No Zool, he won ROTY on a phenominal first season. Guy should have been a senior in college. Remember how awful Aaron was his rookie year and his second year? My god.. He wouldn't have come any where near Young's numbers. They would have been far worse.

Young is a difference maker. He has consistently made plays to win games. Has Aaron Rodgers made a single play to win a game? How many come back WINS does he have? Isn't his final 2 min quarterback rating in the 40s?

[Partial]

They won in spite of him (for the most part). Look at his stats. Just because he made a couple plays late in the game WITH HIS FEET does not make him a good QB. His numbers were horrible.

Who cares how he wins game? He wins games with his feet, eyes, ears, toes, mouth, and knee caps. Same way that losing quarterbacks lose games. Who cares how his stats are when he's putting up Ws. A ugly W is better than a pretty L, no?

By your own account, Young will not be ready to play for 2-3 years. This was his third year and had some mental problems. I'm sure by next year he is a perennial pro bowler.

[Bossman641]

:whist: :whist: :whist: :whist:

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=506584


Pressure's on Vince Young to keep his job
E-MAIL PRINT COMMENTS 22 WATCH THIS TOPIC
Posted: January 13, 2009
Sporting News staff reports


Vince Young hasn't seemed to connect with his teammates all season after being benched in favor of Kerry Collins in Week 1. Next season may be his last chance to get things right with the Titans, and the team could even try to move him in the offseason, according to reports.

Sports Illustrated's Peter King wrote early in the season that Young was rebuffing Collins' attempts to mentor him and teach him how to bounce back from adversity. King wrote after interviewing Titans players last Thursday that, "from what I saw this week, Young's still not willing to listen." Young didn't loosen up with teammates before the Titans-Ravens game, wasn't available to talk in the locker room during practices leading up to game day, and sat alone on the bench during the game.

On Monday, Collins said he wants to start again for the Titans next year, and reports like King's suggest the team might be better off going with the 36-year-old Collins rather than their No. 1 pick in the 2006 draft. (Young went No. 3 overall.)

The Titans say they intend to re-sign not only Collins but also No. 3 quarterback Chris Simms for 2009.

Young has three years left on his contract and is scheduled to make $2.16 million in 2009 with a total salary cap number of $4.6 million. That salary increases to $7.5 million in 2010 ($14.2 million against the cap) and $8.5 million in 2011. If the team were to cut Young in 2009, he would count $7.74 million against their cap immediately because of bonuses that would come due, according to Sports Illustrated. King writes that might be a bargain compared with keeping Young into 2010.

Coach Jeff Fisher put the burden squarely on Young. He told The Tennessean on Monday, "We expect a 100 percent commitment from Vince. We'll accept nothing less than that. This is about Vince Young, and this is about spending the time here and about committing himself to the offseason program and just doing the best he can to make himself a better football player."

So not only is VY a mediocre quarterback, he may be a malcontent as well. After a full season of being benched he still has a sense of entitlement and doesn't seem willing to put in the work necessary. Compare that to Rodgers, who has been nothing but a model teammate and seems willing to do anything possible to make himself and his team better. Like I said before Partial, you can keep Young.

[Partial]

Vince Young took a team coming off a #3 pick in the draft and carried them to an 8-5 record in his starts as a Rookie.

I wouldn't want any part of my teammates or Kerry Collins either when my coach doesn't let me play for the team that I went through the growing pains with and developed alongside. Winners want to play. Phillip Rivers was a malcontent when he didn't get to play...

Aaron Rodgers, taking over the reigns of the 2nd best team in the league from a year ago, carried his team to a stellar 6-10 record.

How can you ignore the talent that Young has? Kid is a winner. He has won 60% of his NFL starts. How many people can say that??? Especially in there first two years. How many QBs have done that as rookies and second year players?!? That is phenomenal, especially when you consider how recently they were picking third in the draft...

ignoring obvious "man versus boys" athleticism is just crazy. He isn't the complete quarterback yet but he still wins more games, and makes more plays than a good amount of the QBs. There are maybe 10 guys I'd take over him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnlFLPd2EOA

[Bossman641]

I wouldn't want any part of my teammates or Kerry Collins either when my coach doesn't let me play for the team that I went through the growing pains with and developed alongside. Winners want to play. Phillip Rivers was a malcontent when he didn't get to play...

Do you choose to ignore facts? You must be forgetting that Vince quit on the Titans. He wasn't benched, Fischer didn't refuse to give him a chance to play. He quit. He told Fischer he didn't want back in the opening game of the year, then he went missing. Vince didn't want to play PERIOD. This is not the first time this has happened either. After his "spectacular Rookie of the Year" season there were also rumors of him quitting football.

Answer this question seriously Partial. Let's say Rodgers, in his 2nd or 3rd year, had essentially said "fuck Favre I'm better than him and I should be the one out there playing." Would you have respected him more for that? After all, winners want to play, right?

[Partial]

You get that he was seriously injured for a good amount of the season, right? He had a bad game and didn't want to go back in because he was having an off-day and wanted his team to win. He eventually concluded the ball was best in his hands and went back in. Then, he hurt himself seriously and lost the starting spot for a few weeks. Using the metaphor of the playoff beard, you don't stop doing something that is working, thus, they stuck with Collins.

Yeah, I would have respected him. Why wouldn't I? Would you want to sit on the sideline? Winners want the ball in their hand.

[Bossman641]

You get that he was seriously injured for a good amount of the season, right? He had a bad game and didn't want to go back in because he was having an off-day and wanted his team to win. He eventually concluded the ball was best in his hands and went back in. Then, he hurt himself seriously and lost the starting spot for a few weeks. Using the metaphor of the playoff beard, you don't stop doing something that is working, thus, they stuck with Collins.

Yeah, I would have respected him. Why wouldn't I? Would you want to sit on the sideline? Winners want the ball in their hand.

If you believe all that then good luck.

One other thing though.

Grossman's career record as a starter is 19-12. A 61% winning percentage!! Holy shit, this guy must be awesome.

[SkinBasket]

trolling efforts? How quick you are to write off someone who has done nothing but won. Donovan McNabb and Tom Brady weren't the best passers in the league when they first entered, either. And they had better receivers!

Some of this stuff is laughable. You'd think Young was the worst QB from the comments in here. "Win in spite of". ROFL.

Either you're trolling or being a complete fucking retard. Take your pick. It don't bother none.

Readin' my paper in Ray's cafe
The ol' guy next to me is loud as day
Rambled and rambled while eatin' his pie
He dropped his wallet, now it's mine uh huh

Sorry old man but that's jus' the way that it is
Don't bother none
Won't help at all to worry 'bout it

Picked up the wallet and slipped out side
Walked around and walked around and walked around town
I found my nerve and a good place to hide
Only to find no cash inside uh-huh

Oh well I guess that's just the way that it is
Don't bother none
Won't help at all to worry 'bout it

I got thirsty so I went to a bar
Met a lil darlin' with the face of a star
In the mornin' woke up to find
She stole my car along with my heart uh-huh

Oh well I guess that's jus' the way that it is
Don't bother none
Won't help at all to worry 'bout it

Wish she'd give me back my heart uh-huh

Oh, well I guess that's jus' the way that it is
Don't bother none
Won't help at all to worry 'bout it

[SkinBasket]

Grossman's career record as a starter is 19-12. A 61% winning percentage!! Holy shit, this guy must be awesome.

Don't forget that Brian St Peirre is an elite QB because he also sits on the bench of a winning team.

[cpk1994]

trolling efforts? How quick you are to write off someone who has done nothing but won. Donovan McNabb and Tom Brady weren't the best passers in the league when they first entered, either. And they had better receivers!

Some of this stuff is laughable. You'd think Young was the worst QB from the comments in here. "Win in spite of". ROFL.

Either you're trolling or being a complete fucking retard. Take your pick. It don't bother none.

Actually hes both.

[Zool]

Grossman's career record as a starter is 19-12. A 61% winning percentage!! Holy shit, this guy must be awesome.

Don't forget that Brian St Peirre is an elite QB because he also sits on the bench of a winning team.

Troy Smith was another elite college QB who's holding down a bench for a team in the AFC CG. He's just carrying that team.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Here's what happened "behind the curtain" of Young's 8-4 rookie record from NFL.com. I put the VY impact on the wins as far as his performance goes.

Week 6 - First game starting. Behind a 178 yd performance by Travis Henry, the Titans take the lead with 5:11 left on a FG. The Titans defense forces a 3 and out and then an INT on the next opponents possessions. Young goes 13/25 161yds 1 TD. (1-0)
VY IMPACT: MINIMAL This was the Travis Henry show and the defense closed the door.

Week 7 - Bye

Week 8 - The Texans turn the ball over 5 times with one fumble returned for a TD by TN. TN wins the game despite only having 197 total yards. (2-0)
VY IMPACT: NONE Texas melts down.

Week 9 - Blowout loss to Jax. Young goes 15-36 163 yds 1 TD, 3 INT (2-1)

Week 10 - TN blows a 26-7 lead in the 2nd Q and loses to Balt and manages 88 yds of total offense in the 2nd half (2-2)

Week 11 - TN beats Philly in a game where McNabb is hurt early in the 2nd Q 31-13. Young is 8-22 for 101 yds 1 TD, rushes for 49 yds. The game was 10-6 TN at half, the 2nd half scoring for TN was a 70 yd TD run by Travis Henry, a 90 yd punt return by PacMan and a 16 yd fumble return by Bulluck. (3-2)
VY IMPACT: NONE Defense won this game as they took advantage of a backup QB

Week 12 - The famous comeback win against the Giants. Helped by 2 INTs by PacMan in the 4th Q including the one that set up the game winning FG, Young does lead the team to 4 scoring drives in the 4th and has his famous missed tackle play. (4-3)
VY IMPACT: BIG While PacMan should get a good amount of credit as well, Young clearly made the most of the opportunity.

Week 13 - A 60 yard FG by Bironas with 7 seconds left wins the game. Young has a solid game with 15/25 163 yds 2 TD 2 INT and 78 yds rushing. (5-3)
VY IMPACT: AVERAGE If your kicker makes a 60 yarder to win it, thank your lucky stars you have a great kicker who had the wind at his back.

Week 14 - TN gets the ball first in OT and Young runs 39 yards for the game winner against Houston. Finishes the day 19/29 218 yds 1 INT. Rushes for 86 yds. (6-3)
VY IMPACT: BIG You run the game winner in from that far out you get the gameball.

Week 15 - TN beats Jax 24-17. Young goes 8/15 for 85 yds. TN has 3 defensive TDs. The lone FG the offense scored was due to a big kickoff return by PacMan to the Jax 14 yd line. (7-3)
VY IMPACT: NONE Defense, defense, defense.

Week 16 - 30-29 win over Buffalo. Young goes 13/20 183yds 2 TDs and rushes for 61 yds and a TD. Henry rushes for 135 yds for TN including the majority of the yards on the FG drive to put the Titans ahead. Buffalo drove to the TN 28 yd line with 57 seconds left but an INT by TN ends the game. (8-3)
VY IMPACT: SOLID TN had a good offensive game, but a late stop by the defense saved the win. Buffalo could have easily won this one late.

Week 17 - Loss to NE 40-23. Young goes 15/36 227 yds and 2 INTs. He does have a 28 yd TD run. Fumbles once. (8-4)

So I count 3 games where Young had a noticable role in the win. The other 5 were wins he really didn't have much of a role and the games were won by the defense, the RBs or special teams. In the 4 losses, he was real bad.

He clearly had his moments, but I don't see a stretch of games at all where he carried the team. The closest ones would be weeks 12-14 but he had a lot of timely help from his defense and an insane FG. He played good, but did not carry the team in a dominating type fashion that is generally associated with the term.

[Guiness]

Wow Partial - some good posts you have in other threads are totally offset by this overzealous defense of VY - who may one day become a player, but at this point is a crapshoot at best.
.

[Bossman641]

Here's what happened "behind the curtain" of Young's 8-4 rookie record from NFL.com. I put the VY impact on the wins as far as his performance goes.

Week 6 - First game starting. Behind a 178 yd performance by Travis Henry, the Titans take the lead with 5:11 left on a FG. The Titans defense forces a 3 and out and then an INT on the next opponents possessions. Young goes 13/25 161yds 1 TD. (1-0)
VY IMPACT: MINIMAL This was the Travis Henry show and the defense closed the door.

Week 7 - Bye

Week 8 - The Texans turn the ball over 5 times with one fumble returned for a TD by TN. TN wins the game despite only having 197 total yards. (2-0)
VY IMPACT: NONE Texas melts down.

Week 9 - Blowout loss to Jax. Young goes 15-36 163 yds 1 TD, 3 INT (2-1)

Week 10 - TN blows a 26-7 lead in the 2nd Q and loses to Balt and manages 88 yds of total offense in the 2nd half (2-2)

Week 11 - TN beats Philly in a game where McNabb is hurt early in the 2nd Q 31-13. Young is 8-22 for 101 yds 1 TD, rushes for 49 yds. The game was 10-6 TN at half, the 2nd half scoring for TN was a 70 yd TD run by Travis Henry, a 90 yd punt return by PacMan and a 16 yd fumble return by Bulluck. (3-2)
VY IMPACT: NONE Defense won this game as they took advantage of a backup QB

Week 12 - The famous comeback win against the Giants. Helped by 2 INTs by PacMan in the 4th Q including the one that set up the game winning FG, Young does lead the team to 4 scoring drives in the 4th and has his famous missed tackle play. (4-3)
VY IMPACT: BIG While PacMan should get a good amount of credit as well, Young clearly made the most of the opportunity.

Week 13 - A 60 yard FG by Bironas with 7 seconds left wins the game. Young has a solid game with 15/25 163 yds 2 TD 2 INT and 78 yds rushing. (5-3)
VY IMPACT: AVERAGE If your kicker makes a 60 yarder to win it, thank your lucky stars you have a great kicker who had the wind at his back.

Week 14 - TN gets the ball first in OT and Young runs 39 yards for the game winner against Houston. Finishes the day 19/29 218 yds 1 INT. Rushes for 86 yds. (6-3)
VY IMPACT: BIG You run the game winner in from that far out you get the gameball.

Week 15 - TN beats Jax 24-17. Young goes 8/15 for 85 yds. TN has 3 defensive TDs. The lone FG the offense scored was due to a big kickoff return by PacMan to the Jax 14 yd line. (7-3)
VY IMPACT: NONE Defense, defense, defense.

Week 16 - 30-29 win over Buffalo. Young goes 13/20 183yds 2 TDs and rushes for 61 yds and a TD. Henry rushes for 135 yds for TN including the majority of the yards on the FG drive to put the Titans ahead. Buffalo drove to the TN 28 yd line with 57 seconds left but an INT by TN ends the game. (8-3)
VY IMPACT: SOLID TN had a good offensive game, but a late stop by the defense saved the win. Buffalo could have easily won this one late.

Week 17 - Loss to NE 40-23. Young goes 15/36 227 yds and 2 INTs. He does have a 28 yd TD run. Fumbles once. (8-4)

So I count 3 games where Young had a noticable role in the win. The other 5 were wins he really didn't have much of a role and the games were won by the defense, the RBs or special teams. In the 4 losses, he was real bad.

He clearly had his moments, but I don't see a stretch of games at all where he carried the team. The closest ones would be weeks 12-14 but he had a lot of timely help from his defense and an insane FG. He played good, but did not carry the team in a dominating type fashion that is generally associated with the term.

Nicely done

[Partial]

Wow, you guys are ridiculous. Let's go through game by game for Aaron Rodgers.

Troll? Hardly. NFL executives, sports writers, fans and other players agrees agree with me. Otherwise Young wouldn't have a pro bowl appearance or a ROTY award to his name. I'm guessing that he didn't deserve that one either...

3 come from behind wins as a rookie. Something our veteran team cannot seem to get done. On the arm and legs of a star, something we don't have. Doesn't get any credit for these either! Nope. Playmakers carrying a team on their back and doing what it takes to win games in "the best division in football" as a rookie don't get any credit.

Yet our grizzled veteran in his 4th year (who looked like hell his first two years, btw), gets immense credit for leading an extremely talented team (far more talented than VYs teams) to a 6-10 record. Explain that logic? There isn't any. It's called blatant homerism and "don't know anything about football"ism.

pro bowls.... playoffs... prestigious awards... 61% winning percentage voted on by their peers and coaches... We don't appreciate any of that! We waved goodbye to that last summer! Instead, we appreciate and even defend to the death underachievement, losing records, 37% winning percetange, relaxing in january instead of cheering on our team, etc.

Some of you are jokes.

[SkinBasket]

Wow, you guys are ridiculous.

Some of you are jokes.

Sometimes I wonder how some of you make it through the day..

And strangely enough, you stand alone on this. So you must be right. You aren't ridiculous, everyone else is. You aren't the joke, it's the rest of the world with egg on it's face.

Your concern for everyone else's ability to make it through the day is cute from this side of reality though.

[Bossman641]

Wow, you guys are ridiculous. Let's go through game by game for Aaron Rodgers.

Troll? Hardly. NFL executives, sports writers, fans and other players agrees agree with me. Otherwise Young wouldn't have a pro bowl appearance or a ROTY award to his name. I'm guessing that he didn't deserve that one either...

3 come from behind wins as a rookie. Something our veteran team cannot seem to get done. On the arm and legs of a star, something we don't have. Doesn't get any credit for these either! Nope. Playmakers carrying a team on their back and doing what it takes to win games in "the best division in football" as a rookie don't get any credit.

Yet our grizzled veteran in his 4th year (who looked like hell his first two years, btw), gets immense credit for leading an extremely talented team (far more talented than VYs teams) to a 6-10 record. Explain that logic? There isn't any. It's called blatant homerism and "don't know anything about football"ism.

pro bowls.... playoffs... prestigious awards... 61% winning percentage voted on by their peers and coaches... We don't appreciate any of that! We waved goodbye to that last summer! Instead, we appreciate and even defend to the death underachievement, losing records, 37% winning percetange, relaxing in january instead of cheering on our team, etc.

Some of you are jokes.

Again, Grossman has a 61% winning percentage as a starter. Judging a qb on the TEAM's winning percentage isn't really a good stat to look at. He can only control 1 of 3 phases.

He went through and broke down Young's performance in every game. Are you really going to argue that your beliefs are more correct than facts?

[Partial]

Wow, you guys are ridiculous. Let's go through game by game for Aaron Rodgers.

Troll? Hardly. NFL executives, sports writers, fans and other players agrees agree with me. Otherwise Young wouldn't have a pro bowl appearance or a ROTY award to his name. I'm guessing that he didn't deserve that one either...

3 come from behind wins as a rookie. Something our veteran team cannot seem to get done. On the arm and legs of a star, something we don't have. Doesn't get any credit for these either! Nope. Playmakers carrying a team on their back and doing what it takes to win games in "the best division in football" as a rookie don't get any credit.

Yet our grizzled veteran in his 4th year (who looked like hell his first two years, btw), gets immense credit for leading an extremely talented team (far more talented than VYs teams) to a 6-10 record. Explain that logic? There isn't any. It's called blatant homerism and "don't know anything about football"ism.

pro bowls.... playoffs... prestigious awards... 61% winning percentage voted on by their peers and coaches... We don't appreciate any of that! We waved goodbye to that last summer! Instead, we appreciate and even defend to the death underachievement, losing records, 37% winning percetange, relaxing in january instead of cheering on our team, etc.

Some of you are jokes.

Again, Grossman has a 61% winning percentage as a starter. Judging a qb on the TEAM's winning percentage isn't really a good stat to look at. He can only control 1 of 3 phases.

He went through and broke down Young's performance in every game. Are you really going to argue that your beliefs are more correct than facts?

Actually, he didn't. He chose some of the games, and rated his "impact" using some arbitrary scale. Does he have game tape of those games? Is he watching tape to make assessments? Unless he is, I don't buy any of it.

Quite frankly, I don't really care what you think. If you want to ignore obvious physical talent, so be it. You guys are a bunch of homers. You were all in denial when interviewed scouts ranked Rodgers 19th after his 4th year.

I don't understand how Young's performance isn't incredible for a rookie quarterback. Everyone knew he was going to struggle throwing the ball early as he had to completely reshape his mechanics. Remember when A-Rod was relearning his mechanics as a rookie? Do you Bossman? Please answer this question. Do you remember how awful A-Rod looked as a rookie and sophomore? That's because their game is still sophomoric.

The difference is a playmaker wins games using what he has. I don't care about his passing stats as a rookie. They're completely irrelevant imo. You can say the "impact" is just about minimal for EVERY rookie QB ever. Young was like Matt Ryan. He straight up won games. W is the only stat that matters.

[SkinBasket]

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g188/skinbasket/vy.jpg

Partial, you lose.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Actually, he didn't. He chose some of the games, and rated his "impact" using some arbitrary scale. Does he have game tape of those games? Is he watching tape to make assessments? Unless he is, I don't buy any of it.

I chose every game he started as a rookie. I wanted to see for myself how his games were and how relevent his play was to how the overall record was. You kept touting about how he carried the team on his back as a rookie.

Show me in my assessment where I am wrong about Vince's impact in the games his rookie year. Come on Partial. You keep touting how damn smart you are, let's see it. Prove me wrong.

Did I watch every play? No. Have you? No. If you say I can't judge him because of that, then neither can you.


W is the only stat that matters.

You want to just use wins and losses to rate him. Fine. Then by your scale, Grossman is a better QB than Young as he has more wins and you can't argue that. Your manlove for Young is pathetic and blinds you to any real assessment of Young.

[Bossman641]

Wow, you guys are ridiculous. Let's go through game by game for Aaron Rodgers.

Troll? Hardly. NFL executives, sports writers, fans and other players agrees agree with me. Otherwise Young wouldn't have a pro bowl appearance or a ROTY award to his name. I'm guessing that he didn't deserve that one either...

3 come from behind wins as a rookie. Something our veteran team cannot seem to get done. On the arm and legs of a star, something we don't have. Doesn't get any credit for these either! Nope. Playmakers carrying a team on their back and doing what it takes to win games in "the best division in football" as a rookie don't get any credit.

Yet our grizzled veteran in his 4th year (who looked like hell his first two years, btw), gets immense credit for leading an extremely talented team (far more talented than VYs teams) to a 6-10 record. Explain that logic? There isn't any. It's called blatant homerism and "don't know anything about football"ism.

pro bowls.... playoffs... prestigious awards... 61% winning percentage voted on by their peers and coaches... We don't appreciate any of that! We waved goodbye to that last summer! Instead, we appreciate and even defend to the death underachievement, losing records, 37% winning percetange, relaxing in january instead of cheering on our team, etc.

Some of you are jokes.

Again, Grossman has a 61% winning percentage as a starter. Judging a qb on the TEAM's winning percentage isn't really a good stat to look at. He can only control 1 of 3 phases.

He went through and broke down Young's performance in every game. Are you really going to argue that your beliefs are more correct than facts?

Actually, he didn't. He chose some of the games, and rated his "impact" using some arbitrary scale. Does he have game tape of those games? Is he watching tape to make assessments? Unless he is, I don't buy any of it.

Quite frankly, I don't really care what you think. If you want to ignore obvious physical talent, so be it. You guys are a bunch of homers. You were all in denial when interviewed scouts ranked Rodgers 19th after his 4th year.

I don't understand how Young's performance isn't incredible for a rookie quarterback. Everyone knew he was going to struggle throwing the ball early as he had to completely reshape his mechanics. Remember when A-Rod was relearning his mechanics as a rookie? Do you Bossman? Please answer this question. Do you remember how awful A-Rod looked as a rookie and sophomore? That's because their game is still sophomoric.

The difference is a playmaker wins games using what he has. I don't care about his passing stats as a rookie. They're completely irrelevant imo. You can say the "impact" is just about minimal for EVERY rookie QB ever. Young was like Matt Ryan. He straight up won games. W is the only stat that matters.

Actually he went through his entire rookie year. I don't have the time to go through his sophomore year, but judging by his stats (12 TD and 13 INT as a rookie, 9 TD and 17 INT in his 2nd year) I'm guessing it wouldn't be too pretty.

Did I ignore he has physical talent? No I didn't. He is extremely gifted. If you put a good head on VY's body you'd have a terrific player. Problem is, he doesn't have it upstairs, not in a football sense and possibly not at all. I could care less about "scouts" ranking Rodgers 19th. I told you where I'd rank him in that list and I believe it was about 14th or 15th with a lot of room to grow. Is that being a homer?

And yea I do remember how Rodgers looked as a rookie. I'm not making an argument that he was good in his first or second year. He has taken the step. You're basing your entire argument on the fact that Young looked like he had potential as a rookie. That's what he still looks like. He hasn't moved forward, he maybe never will. He is coming to a crossroads and it appears like he has no sense of urgency at all.

I think Ryan will be very good, not just because he won games, but because he looked good playing them as well. He looked like an NFL QB. Vince didn't, and still doesn't.

[channtheman]

Wow Partial, I and maybe others start to think you have turned into a good poster who makes good points and then you go back to this. I cannot believe the things that you say and actually believe. Either that or you are the most successful troll ever.

[vince]

Performance be damned. Nevermind his 22 TD's vs. 32 INT's or his 68 passer rating. Forget about the fact that his backup took over, and the team immediately became the winningest team in the league after being a 9-7 team under a bestowed one's immortal presence behind center. After all, he was a college and high school god and had a come-from-behind win three years ago.

Nothing nor noone can deny those who have been bestowed "it" by the one and only. So please stop with the ridiculous attempts at logic and reasoned analysis. They simply don't apply here.

If statistics support your argument, well, it's not about stats you see. If they support the one and only's argument, well then you can't deny the truth.

If you isolate performance and compare a player who outperformed a bestowed one to support your argument, well then the rest of the team was responsible for the inflated stats of your guy, but the bestowed one still singlehandedly overcame the burden of his team to perform heroically.

If it's wins and losses, well it of course depends on whether those wins support the bestowed one or not as to whether he is to be solely credited for them - or if the rest of the team is to be blamed. If it's your guy's wins and losses, then naturally, it depends on the numbers as to whether he is to be solely blamed for them - or if the rest of the team will be credited with them in spite of your guy.

But of course, if we're talking about someone has not been bestowed with "it," these arguments all work exactly in reverse - as they should.

This is universal and should be applied to all NFL players. Deny these truthes and you shall be ROFL'd and ridiculed and deemed clueless, and you shall deserve it.

[Partial]

Performance be damned. Nevermind his 22 TD's vs. 32 INT's or his 68 passer rating. Forget about the fact that his backup took over, and the team immediately became the winningest team in the league after being a 9-7 team under a bestowed one's immortal presence behind center. After all, he was a college and high school god and had a come-from-behind win three years ago.

So what? The Packers went 8-8 and went to 13-3. It's called rebuilding, guy. What don't you understand about him being an immature passer who was winning using his unique skillset, instead of being a pure passer. I didn't realize it's fair to judge a versatile athlete on strictly his passing statistics when everyone and their mother knows there is:
A) Far more to his game than that
B) an undeveloped passer
C) Passing is the least important facet of his game

Are you insinuating Kerry Collins stellar passing is what carried the Titans this year? Are you trying to tell me that they aren't primarily a running team?!? Are you trying to tell me that Kerry Collins running behind a massive OL is better than VY?

Laughable, guy.

Note all the teams putting a big back in the wild cat formation. Vince Young is the ULTIMATE wildcat.

The rest of your post is really stupid. Aaron Rodgers wouldn't have gotten any flack from me if he had.

All along, I have said I don't care about Aaron's stats because he has good stats. That doesn't make him a good quarterback. He is an average quarterback who doesn't win games. He doesn't have a "special" quality about him. He has a top 10 arm, average physique, average athleticism? For all intents and purposes, by the end of his 4th year, it looks like he is what he will be. An average to above average quarterback.

Vince Young, on the other hand, has off the chart athleticism, a picture-perfect physique for the position, and an average arm. The complete package so far has resulted in a quarterback who WINS games in the clutch. He's better in the final two minutes than he is in the previous 58. That's a quality that I look for in a gamer. He has barely begun to tap into his potential.

Vince Young is off the charts in every thing that you judge a QB on except arm and leadership. If you recall with Aaron Rodgers, he had an average arm coming out. That will come in time, just like it did for noodle armed Aaron coming out. As evidence by the Packers collapse from contender to pretender, Aaron is lacking the leadership, too. That will come in time for Vince without a doubt, and hopefully Aaron, too.

Clueless? I think it's pretty ignorant, ill-informed, and downright stupid to judge a quarterback who is admittedly very raw and a below average passer to this point exclusively on the weakest point of his game. That would be like calling TO a terrible receiver because he doesn't have the best hands. Same thing. Judging an extremely skilled player on the weakest facet of their game.

If you want to talk "it", Vince Young has the IT(Moxy) that I look for. Alex Smith started as a rookie on a bad team. VY started as a rookie on a bad team. How many times did Alex Smith lead his equally talented team back? How many plays did AS make? Young has the moxy and intangibles I look for in spades.

With that said, you can think whatever you'd like, Vince. Your insane opinions on Chad SUPERSTAR MVP Pennington are almost as laughable as list. You've shown time and time again that your ability to recognize talent is questionable at best.

[vince]

I have come to accept all this Partial, and recognize that you are the one and only. I bow in your honor and plea for more of your wisdom.

I now realize that it doesn't matter that a quarterback's two most important qualities in this league are his ability to pass the ball and lead the team - that is if the bestowed one happens to suck at those qualities.

It doesn't matter whether the same team immediately wins more games or less when another quarterback lacking the almighty skills of the bestowed one - but bringing other skills perhaps not obvious to fourth graders - replaces him...

It is the last two minutes of the game that matter - unless of course something bad happens then - which should then be ignored.

I humbly accept your ROFL's and ask for more. I think I am beginning to learn, but I realize that I have only scratched the surface of understanding what it takes to have "it."

[Zool]

I had 'it' once, but i went to the Dr and got a shot. Cleared right up.

[vince]

I had 'it' once, but i went to the Dr and got a shot. Cleared right up.
Clearly that doctor was the one and only. Otherwise, how could you be sure?

[SkinBasket]

I'm starting to think that someone hacked Partial's account, changed his avatar and sig, and is now having fun making Partial look dumber than usual - which is actually a pretty impressive accomplishment.

How someone can spend this much time and effort championing a QB who spent the year on the bench after a mediocre start to his career by any recordable measure is absurd. Who knows, maybe he killed his handler and is now a feral tard, savagely abusing himself and his keyboard until he perishes from dehydration.

[Patler]

Vince Young is off the charts in every thing that you judge a QB on except arm and leadership.

Lucky for him, most coaches don't care too much about their QB's ability to throw the ball or lead the team, so long as he is really, really good on the center exchange!

[Patler]

If you want to talk "it", Vince Young has the IT(Moxy) that I look for. Alex Smith started as a rookie on a bad team. VY started as a rookie on a bad team. How many times did Alex Smith lead his equally talented team back? How many plays did AS make? Young has the moxy and intangibles I look for in spades.


I would propose that a QB who can not withstand the pressure of fan criticism is clearly lacking the "it" factor you mention so often. Every QB will fail, and will fail often. He has to bounce back from those failures. Can Vince Young do that? Its not looking too good right now.

[Fritz]

I would say that Vince Young apparently fooled many people coming out of college. I recall - and who knows if it was smoke - that TT was enamoured of the guy.

[TheCheese]

I would say that Vince Young apparently fooled many people coming out of college. I recall - and who knows if it was smoke - that TT was enamoured of the guy.

Ok let's be real here. No on knows who the hell TT was enamored with before the draft, and that is when those reports came out. Rumors are rumors, no one in the league is as good as TT is with keeping things close to the chest.

To my other point, if TT did leak he was enamored with VY, than he did it on purpose as a smoke screen, in which case he truly would'nt have been "enamored" with him.

Let's not forget how shrewd Ted is, hell no one in the organization knew what Ted's pick was in the 2006 draft, and he stated he decided it was going to be Hawk two weeks before the draft.

[vince]

I would say that Vince Young apparently fooled many people coming out of college. I recall - and who knows if it was smoke - that TT was enamoured of the guy.
TT would probably admit that love - if it really existed - is appearing a tad misguided at this point - unless of course he would happen to check with Partial first.

[Bossman641]

If you want to talk "it", Vince Young has the IT(Moxy) that I look for. Alex Smith started as a rookie on a bad team. VY started as a rookie on a bad team. How many times did Alex Smith lead his equally talented team back? How many plays did AS make? Young has the moxy and intangibles I look for in spades.


I would propose that a QB who can not withstand the pressure of fan criticism is clearly lacking the "it" factor you mention so often. Every QB will fail, and will fail often. He has to bounce back from those failures. Can Vince Young do that? Its not looking too good right now.

While I was looking around the other day for some Vince Young stats I came across this quote from Norm Chow. It was made after Young won the ROY award. I can't help but chuckle reading it.


Chow, who worked with Heisman Trophy winners Leinart and Carson Palmer at Southern California, is considered one of the finest teachers of quarterbacks in the business. What does he like most about Young, who left Texas after his junior season?

"Besides the physical skills, it's the will and the strength inside, the 'it' factor that a quarterback either has or doesn't have," Chow said. "Obviously, he has it. The quickness in which he won the team over and the quickness in which he became the leader, the guy everybody looked up to, that was special.

"Vince Young has this great ability to lift others around him. To see him do it so quickly, that wasn't a surprise, but it was certainly good to see."

LOL. At least Chow agreed that Young has the vaunted "it" factor Partial goes on and on about. Of course, Chow later got fired and there were rumors flying around that VY had something to do with it.

[Bossman641]

Partial wrote:

Are you insinuating Kerry Collins stellar passing is what carried the Titans this year? Are you trying to tell me that they aren't primarily a running team?!? Are you trying to tell me that Kerry Collins running behind a massive OL is better than VY?

Hint - they were primarily a running team when Vince Young was there playing as well. That, along with a strong defense, is what carried the Titans those years.

[SkinBasket]

You know who had the "it" factor? Rodney Peete.

[Partial]

I now realize that it doesn't matter that a quarterback's two most important qualities in this league are his ability to pass the ball and lead the team - that is if the bestowed one happens to suck at those qualities.

It doesn't matter whether the same team immediately wins more games or less when another quarterback lacking the almighty skills of the bestowed one - but bringing other skills perhaps not obvious to fourth graders - replaces him...

It is the last two minutes of the game that matter - unless of course something bad happens then - which should then be ignored.

Same team? If that was the case then wouldn't the "Aaron Rodgers sucks" crusade be proven correct?!?!? Way to set yourself up to lose one of your own arguments.

Quarterbacks best two qualities? Pass and lead a team? That's very relative. I'd say the ability to win games is the most important attribute, and any way they want to achieve this is fine. Who is to say VY is not redefining the position, the way many OC are running their offenses today?

While it's true that passing is the most important part of a traditional QB, Young is not that sort of player. He's a hybrid, like Tebow, thus the discussion.

Last two minutes: That's when players earn their paychecks. VY has been lights out in the last few minutes of games.

Why don't you try actually disputing a post on an intellectual level instead of the sarcasm, guy.

[Partial]

How someone can spend this much time and effort championing a QB who spent the year on the bench after a mediocre start to his career by any recordable measure is absurd.

Vince Young had one of the hottest starts for a quarterback in NFL history. I'm not sure what you're talking about. He took a bad team that picked third to the playoffs. He won games in the 4th quarter when they were down. He went to the pro bowl.

That is a pretty good start to me.

[Patler]

After all that went on this year, will the team still accept VY as a leader?
He may have to start over elsewhere. At a minimum he will have to win over his own team mates again, and that will not be easy.

[SkinBasket]

Who is to say VY is not redefining the position, the way many OC are running their offenses today?

HAHAHAHAHAHA! Redefining the position! Are all future superstars going to redefine the game from the bench from now on? That's actually really fucking funny.


Why don't you try actually disputing a post on an intellectual level instead of the sarcasm, guy.

I think his point, which is a very valid point, is that there is nothing on an intellectual level in your arguments to dispute. You're being a fucktard, and at this point, it's hard to believe you're not doing it on purpose. Well, it would be hard to believe if you didn't have so many precedents for this kind of strange, stubborn, willfull stupidity.

[SkinBasket]

I should add that I refuse to be a part of this thread continuing to exist. I was wrong for playing a part in the rapidly spreading idiocy that this discussion now represents. Depending on what his motivations are, I will no longer encourage the trolling and/or enable Partial to continue to flounder in his own absurd delusions any longer.

[Partial]

Partial wrote:

Are you insinuating Kerry Collins stellar passing is what carried the Titans this year? Are you trying to tell me that they aren't primarily a running team?!? Are you trying to tell me that Kerry Collins running behind a massive OL is better than VY?

Hint - they were primarily a running team when Vince Young was there playing as well. That, along with a strong defense, is what carried the Titans those years.

They weren't primarily anything considering LenDale was average, Travis Henry was gone, Arizona Henry has a career 120 yards rushing and Johnson is a rookie.

His rookie year, they were dead last in the NFL in total defense. How's that for a rushing and defensive team. Yet he still managed to carry them, and get the job done in the 4th. They also gave up 25 ppg, where as many people in here equated to giving up anything more than 20 points is doing an unacceptable, completely shitty job.

Of course they're a running team. They have a versatile athlete at QB. He accounts for a good chunk of their yards(500 yards on the ground average - which certainly gives them a HUGE boost in running statistics), as well as keeping the defense honest. Plus, there receivers are garbage at best.

Replacing the yards Young rushed for (500 average) with the yards your average QB rushes for (looked at A-Rod, 200), the Titans ranked 16th in the league his rookie year in rushing, with the last place defense. He carried that team. In 2007, oddly enough they ranked 16th again with the 200 yards instead of 500, but this year there defense was quite a bit better than last place.

With that said, I think it is very safe to say that he contributed a TON to that offense. Any QB does, because the ball is in their hand almost every offensive snap.

Dude is a straight up play maker. Watch out for him next year. I predict the Titans are led to a super bowl by Young.

[Cheesehead Craig]

His rookie year, they were dead last in the NFL in total defense. How's that for a rushing and defensive team. Yet he still managed to carry them, and get the job done in the 4th... He carried that team.
Disproven in my previous post analyzing his games.

[vince]

Same team? If that was the case then wouldn't the "Aaron Rodgers sucks" crusade be proven correct?!?!?
Uhhh, no. Concluding that Aaron Rodgers sucks because the team was not successful this season demonstrates the same kind of inability to accurately link cause and effect that leads people to do very stupid things in life. These are the same kinds of inaccurate linkages you've been making in this and other threads in your stubborn attempts to support your statements about one player or another.

Sometimes I wonder if you can possibly believe what you write. As I write that, it seems like others have made similar comments… I wonder why?

In one thread you use a single game as evidence to support your opinion, and in the next you dismiss a single game as inadequate evidence to disprove your opinion. In this thread you rest on a rookie of the year award to support your anointment, and in another you completely ignore a 2nd place vote in the league MVP and an entire team’s collective assessment of a player's contributions because they contradict your opinion.

You continually use the team's win/loss record to denigrate Aaron Rodgers as if he's the sole reason for the team's failures, while giving his receivers all the credit for his top 10 passing achievements.

Then, you completely ignore Vince Young's less than stellar win/loss record relative to his journeyman immediate successor's and then stubbornly and illogically declare him a “winner.” Then you go on to declare him a Super Bowl champion, perennial pro-bowler and one of the greatest of all time.

Then, when challenged with a real cause and effect assessment of the player's performance, you totally ignore it and keep your head in the clouds, spewing pie-in-the-sky meaningless platitudes - while denigrating those who disagree with you - all about a guy who appears to be hanging onto his roster spot only by virtue of the high cost to cut him. He reportedly doesn’t get along with his teammates, came close to committing suicide when booed as a result of his continued utter lack of accuracy and propensity to throw the ball to the wrong team, and you rationalize it all away.

You don’t even try to connect cause and effect most of the time and choose to completely ignore factual evidence or detailed analysis that contradicts your opinions. And the rest of the time you break logical linkages and/or make illogical linkages all over the place.

Whatever it takes to hold on with dear life to your own misguided perception of your superior ability to judge NFL talent.

[channtheman]

Getting back on track with what this topic was actually about. It appears there was no point to make this as neither of those QB's are entering the NFL draft this spring.

[Bossman641]

Let's look at Vince's situational stats from that magical 2006 season.

http://www.nfl.com/players/vinceyoung/situationalstats?id=YOU617196&season=2006

He does play better in the final minutes of halves, but it's certainly nothing to write home about.
53%, 416 yards, 2 TD, and 2 picks

Tied?
55%, 363 yards, 1 TD, and 1 pick

How about his stats when behind by 1-8 points?
58%, 356 yards, 2 TD, and 2 picks

Behind by 9-16?
54%, 648 yards, 4 TD, and 6 picks

Hmm, 4th quarter?
50.4%, 648 yards, 6 TD, and 4 picks

4th quarter within 7?
50%, 588 yards, 6 TD, and 4 picks

To be fair, I will also post Young's running stats.
http://www.nfl.com/players/vinceyoung/situationalstats?id=YOU617196&season=2006

I have an idea. Let's compare Rodgers 2008 stats to Young. Surely VY will prove how superior he is in close games.

Final 2 min of half
62.9%, 362 yards, 2 TD, and 3 picks

Tied?
62.5%, 848 yards, 6 TD, and 1 pick

Behind 1-8?
55.2%, 358 yards, 4 TD, and 1 pick

Behind 9-16?
65.9%, 1,470 yards, 9 TD, and 7 picks

4th quarter?
60.8%, 1,063 yards, 8 TD, and 5 picks

4th quarter within 7?
60.5%, 1,004 yards, 8 TD, and 5 picks

What say you Partial??

[Partial]

Same thing I've said all along. He wins games with his arms, legs, etc. Looking at passing stats exclusively is not doing justice to him.

[Bossman641]

Same thing I've said all along. He wins games with his arms, legs, etc. Looking at passing stats exclusively is not doing justice to him.

I give up. Where should I buy my authentic Vince Young jersey? Should I go for the college one, or the Titans? Good thinking, better get both.

[vince]

I wonder if Young's demise has been a result of opponents quickly learning that, if you just contain him in the pocket, the ball lands on the ground and in the arms of your guys a lot...

No wait, Partial said that it was Rodgers who teams figured out how to defend, so it must have been he whose performance quickly slid into oblivion.

No wait, Rodgers didn't really suck after all did he? Perhaps Rodgers' struggles in mid-season had something to do with his shoulder injury...

No wait, Partial ignored Rodgers' injury, since he played through it, so that must have been a non-factor, but he did emphasize Young's injury as the reason for HIS poor performance and benching.

But wait, if he would have been healthy, there would have been no containing the anointed one. He's the ultimate Wildcat. You know, that vaunted rushing attack that carried the Dolphins to the 17th best rushing attack this season... That's the revolution in this game that Vince Young and his 29.5 yards rushing per game helped create - and the one that will carry him forward to be one of the greatest of all-time.

Wait, the Dolphins players attribute their success to their new quarterback's leadership, decision-making, and ability to make the rest of the team better (those attributes that USED to be the primary responsibilities of a quarterback) - not their below-average running game gimmick that stole a game by surprising a team that had no game plan for it, but ultimately makes the team (like Vince Young) one-dimensional.

But wait, we can't forget about Young's legs, ears, nose and mouth - that ideal physique! Doing that is ignoring his greatest contribution. He's a HUGE difference maker! And not gushing with praise over Young's "elite athleticism" is absurd!

No wait, the guy who replaced him immediately led the team to become the winningest team in the league. So I guess THAT made quite a difference...

No wait, that couldn't be, since Vince Young is redefining the position of quarterback - right there from the sidelines. All by himself. Carrying the team on his back. Single-handedly. And that's what it's all about.

[vince]

Kordell Stewart. Now that guy had "it." Redefined the QB position. Remember that year he signed with the Bears? What a difference maker. He really improved his accuracy throwing the ball. Well, OK he actually got worse, but he would have if he would have just refined his technique.

But who cares about completing passes anyway? Let's not be focusing on the man's worst attributes here. Get a clue people. How in the hell do you guys make it through the day?

Dude could run like the wind. He averaged over 27 yards a game on the ground from '97 - '03 when he played QB. And what a physique. Revolutionary. He was wildcat before wildcat was wildcat.

Louisiana Player of the Year back in high school. Top 5 finishes nationally two years in a row in college. All American too. Remember that Hail Mary come-from-behind win against Michigan that year? 11-5 with the Steelers his first year at QB. AFC Championship game. What a winner.

Too bad that guy Grossman replaced him when he temporarily struggled. I think he must have got hurt, because he was destined to be one of the greatest of all time. Would've carried the Bears to the promised land. By himself.

[Badgerinmaine]

Vince Young appeared to have a serious case of clinical depression, even to the point of having suicidal tendencies. Millions of other men do, too. If he can get successful treatment for it, there is no reason why he can't have a good NFL career. In some ways, it's a lot like working around the physical injuries other players have had. I'm more than willing to cut him some slack.

[SkinBasket]

Per ESPN (who doesn't mind actually having people reading their content):

Source: Collins told he'll start in '09
ESPN.com news services

When Tennessee Titans coach Jeff Fisher broke the news to Kerry Collins last week that he was headed to the Pro Bowl, he also communicated directly to Collins that he indeed wants him back as his starting quarterback in 2009, a team source told ESPN senior NFL analyst Chris Mortensen.

Fisher had made public remarks that Collins deserved to be the starter based on his performance this season, but a source said his private reaffirmation thrilled Collins, who has said he will retire if he does not get a contract as a starting quarterback.

Collins, who was voted as a Pro Bowl alternate and replaces Brett Favre on the AFC roster, is scheduled to become a free agent in March. Though Titans GM Mike Reinfeldt has had some philosophical contract discussions with Collins' representatives, there has been no real negotiations as of yet.

If a contract is completed for Collins, it means former first-round draft pick Vince Young will have to cope with the disappointment of losing his job to the veteran. A team source said Young has promised to have a good attitude and work ethic this offseason.

However, the team has a desire to re-sign Chris Simms, who was the third-string quarterback. Simms also is set to be a free agent, but the Titans believe he showed tremendous progress throughout the season in practice and believe he is now fully healthy after complications from having his spleen removed during the 2006 season with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.


-----------------------------------

ONOZ!!!!!

Looks like the Talented Mr. Young will have to continue to revolutionize the NFL QB position from the bench next season! Even worse is the urgency the team is showing for resigning 3rd stringer Chris Simms - which might mean Vince Almighty might have to settle for being the most elite 3rd string QB in the history of the NFL in 2009.

[Lurker64]

And here I was, just a couple of years ago, thinking that Jared Lorenzen with his unique physique for a QB was going to reinvent the position of third string emergency backup quarterback. How wrong I was.