JS---"WILLIAMS IN HIGH DEMAND""

[Bretsky]

Wonder how MM is as a sales guy cause it's clear the Saints want him ?

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/37482219.html

[vince]

COPYRIGHTED JSO CONTENT REMOVED!!!!!!!!!!

The suggestion made in this article that the Packers wanted Nolan and simply failed to secure his services because he instead chose the defensive behemoth Denver lacks believability and smacks of a reporter trying to cover his ass after being blatantly wrong about previous reports of a Packers-Nolan deal being all but done.

Now, the reporter is saying the Packers are actively pursuing Williams and strongly implies that, if he signs with another team, the Packers would again "fail" in their pursuit...

Particularly given the recent reporting that was just flat out wrong - first about Moss, then Nolan - there is no reason whatsoever to believe this report that the Packers actually have made a decision to pursue Wiliams, but just can't yet close the deal - has any truth to it whatsoever. Their source appears to be Williams' agent here. You think he might be motivated to create the perception of a bidding war here?

It could of course be true, but there's no way to know for sure at this point, and certainly no reason to believe it given recent history. None of the organizations covering the Packrs, including JSO in this case, appear to have a credible source on the inside of the Packers organization whatsoever - and given that it's in their best interests to be perceived as a credible source of insider news, it wouldn't be too surprising that they might not be very happy about that. Perhaps their former source was recently shitcanned.

It could be equally as true, and given the recent inaccurate reports, perhaps even more likely, that the Packers simply have other candidates in mind and want to conduct a more thorough review, possibly interviewing additional candidates, before making a formal offer to their candidate of choice. That would imply that they are willing to risk losing Nolan and Williams to other teams while the process continues - and either or both of them signing elsewhere would not constitute a failure on the part of the team at all - unlike the implication of this report.

[pack4to84]

rumor from another board.

Randolph Hiedler wrote 1/12/09

This is what I heard about the interviews. Nolan came in assuming he already had the job since he already framed his coaching staff. He left not exactly happy since the job wasn't handed to him on a silver platter. Thompson wanted Nolan out of town as soon as possible.

From what I understood is that Thompson was willing to pay the premium for Williams, but McCarthy didn't like his personality. Apparently Williams came off as he thought he was better than McCarthy.

Names that have came up as possible candidates: Jim Washburn, Chuck Cecil, Bill Sheridan, Keith Butler, Dave Campo, Sean McDermott.

So it looks like Nolan and Williams are out.

[Fritz]

What struck me as most interesting was the line "McCarthy understood this," which suggests that TT is calling the shots here - which is what one of those recent JSO Packer blogs (Bedard, I think?) suggested. So the JSO seems to be trying to be consistent in the narrative that they are framing.

Which is not to say that any of it is true. At all.

[TheCheese]

rumor from another board.

Randolph Hiedler wrote 1/12/09

This is what I heard about the interviews. Nolan came in assuming he already had the job since he already framed his coaching staff. He left not exactly happy since the job wasn't handed to him on a silver platter. Thompson wanted Nolan out of town as soon as possible.

From what I understood is that Thompson was willing to pay the premium for Williams, but McCarthy didn't like his personality. Apparently Williams came off as he thought he was better than McCarthy.

Names that have came up as possible candidates: Jim Washburn, Chuck Cecil, Bill Sheridan, Keith Butler, Dave Campo, Sean McDermott.

So it looks like Nolan and Williams are out.

Is this from packerchatters.com? If so that rumor is complete, made up bull shit with no bearing on the truth what so ever. That site fucking sucks, I can't believe people actually believe the shit some of the knuckle heads make up.

[Fritz]

rumor from another board.

Randolph Hiedler wrote 1/12/09

This is what I heard about the interviews. Nolan came in assuming he already had the job since he already framed his coaching staff. He left not exactly happy since the job wasn't handed to him on a silver platter. Thompson wanted Nolan out of town as soon as possible.

From what I understood is that Thompson was willing to pay the premium for Williams, but McCarthy didn't like his personality. Apparently Williams came off as he thought he was better than McCarthy.

Names that have came up as possible candidates: Jim Washburn, Chuck Cecil, Bill Sheridan, Keith Butler, Dave Campo, Sean McDermott.

So it looks like Nolan and Williams are out.

Is this from packerchatters.com? If so that rumor is complete, made up bull shit with no bearing on the truth what so ever. That site fucking sucks, I can't believe people actually believe the shit some of the knuckle heads make up.

I must say, that place is like a chinese factory of rumors.

[RashanGary]

I suspect your suspicions may be right, Vince.

1. JS has been so full of shit, you can't believe a word they say and this reeks of complete bullshit.

2. I think the Pack DC job is very desirable with the offense being solid and the defense having a decent young base with last years executive of the year commited to putting it over the top (and having more than enough recources to do it). I think the Packers do want Williams (based on how much McCarthy has shown respect to him in the past). I think Williams wants to be here (based on the Packers job being damn near complete autonomy and the good situation). I think there is a very, very, very good chance that Williams agent is sending out a little smoke screen to not appear so damn giddy over the job and to make the Packers feel a little pressure to sign Williams now for a pretty high price. I think JS is returning the favor (of getting some inside info) by putting the story out in a way that benefits Williams and his agent.


Honestly, to me Williams is a sure thing to be a damn good coordinator. If I'm McCarthy, and I get along with him OK, I just make a nice offer and don't worry about the other coordinators that might be good. We know this guy is good, you just have to pay him a little more becuase he's proven.

[pbmax]

Everyone just relax, this is all from the agents point of view. Silverstein himself blogged yesterday that Nolan may have chosen Denver because of its proximity to the house he kept in San Francisco.

And the Williams rumors are baloney. I am pretty sure the Saints would love a few things more than out hiring the Packers and he gives no evidence of the full court press.

The two things to consider are Tennessee, which may very well be attractive to Williams and the fact that Williams has not yet made a choice, which means so far, all the offers are about equal in his mind.

I like the Dave McGinnis idea. And I love the Dave Campo joke.

[pack4to84]

rumor from another board.

Randolph Hiedler wrote 1/12/09

This is what I heard about the interviews. Nolan came in assuming he already had the job since he already framed his coaching staff. He left not exactly happy since the job wasn't handed to him on a silver platter. Thompson wanted Nolan out of town as soon as possible.

From what I understood is that Thompson was willing to pay the premium for Williams, but McCarthy didn't like his personality. Apparently Williams came off as he thought he was better than McCarthy.

Names that have came up as possible candidates: Jim Washburn, Chuck Cecil, Bill Sheridan, Keith Butler, Dave Campo, Sean McDermott.

So it looks like Nolan and Williams are out.

Is this from packerchatters.com? If so that rumor is complete, made up bull shit with no bearing on the truth what so ever. That site fucking sucks, I can't believe people actually believe the shit some of the knuckle heads make up.
On Jan 3 2009 Randolph Hiedler post rumor that Sanders and assistants would be fired. Up until this no one was saying anything about firing his assistants. They where just wanting Sanders gone. He even named some of them. It wasn't until the 6th of Jan. did Sanders and his assistants get fired.

[SkinBasket]

On Jan 3 2009 Randolph Hiedler post rumor that Sanders and assistants would be fired. Up until this no one was saying anything about firing his assistants. They where just wanting Sanders gone. He even named some of them. It wasn't until the 6th of Jan. did Sanders and his assistants get fired.

Not a big leap to make. I'm sure you could find posts like that on just about every message board out there leading up to the firing. The difference is most people just admit they're posting what they think will happen, and what is usually most likely to happen, not some inside rumor.

But whatever, if it makes the information more magical for you, then believe whatever you want to believe.

[pbmax]

On Jan 3 2009 Randolph Hiedler post rumor that Sanders and assistants would be fired. Up until this no one was saying anything about firing his assistants. They where just wanting Sanders gone. He even named some of them. It wasn't until the 6th of Jan. did Sanders and his assistants get fired.
But that wasn't much of a stretch, was it? Of course there were rumors of his being let go. His defense was terrible. If this was packerchatters, I can verify that most of what has reached this board has been utter and inaccurate guesswork. But to be fair, I don't read the board regularly. Its possible someone on there has a source.

[pbmax]

Also, the original post of his, was basically two tidbits, both of which had been posted elsewhere. Nolan rounding up assistants prior to the interview was on PFT. And there is a Packer fan site, Packer Update (www.packerupdate.com), that reported a scout saying Williams would come off as possibly arrogant in his interview, but was the better choice.

This guy's post was this same info, reformulated into rumor speak.

[SkinBasket]

This guy's post was this same info, reformulated into rumor speak.

I was just thinking it's like predictive historical fiction at work. You take some facts and add some unverifiable personal tidbits to create your dramatic story. Only difference here is that they've got to pick the most likely outcome to work with.

[Patler]

This guy's post was this same info, reformulated into rumor speak.

I was just thinking it's like predictive historical fiction at work. You take some facts and add some unverifiable personal tidbits to create your dramatic story. Only difference here is that they've got to pick the most likely outcome to work with.
...and if you throw enough "tidbits" against the wall, some of them will stick!

[texaspackerbacker]

This whole subject is depressing.

I wish they'd just get it over with. Hire one of the damn losers--any one of which will necessarily drag down the Packers defense from what it was in '07--before all the injuries in '08, then get on with the business of building such a juggernaut of an offense that we outscore everybody after giving up 35 or 40 points with our wonderful new blitz and zone coverage defense.

[KYPack]

I'll tell ya.

Everybody who is burned out on DC speculation, raise your hand.

[red]

i'm starting to get nervous

[Pugger]

Nervous? Not me. I think MM is still waiting for the person he has his eye on because that individual's team is still playing. :D

[pbmax]

I'll tell ya.

Everybody who is burned out on DC speculation, raise your hand.
C'mon KY, its just like Kremlinology, only far less important.

Speaking of far less important, Wilde has Williams seriously considering the Saints job, but unlike Silverstein's story which backed off the connection, Wilde seems to be tipping his source as Marvin Demoff.

[red]

rumor from another board.

Randolph Hiedler wrote 1/12/09

This is what I heard about the interviews. Nolan came in assuming he already had the job since he already framed his coaching staff. He left not exactly happy since the job wasn't handed to him on a silver platter. Thompson wanted Nolan out of town as soon as possible.

From what I understood is that Thompson was willing to pay the premium for Williams, but McCarthy didn't like his personality. Apparently Williams came off as he thought he was better than McCarthy.

Names that have came up as possible candidates: Jim Washburn, Chuck Cecil, Bill Sheridan, Keith Butler, Dave Campo, Sean McDermott.

So it looks like Nolan and Williams are out.

this guy is a giant piece of shit. he is one of the main reasons i left that site. he will take everything everyone is speculating about and try and turn them into info he heard from his "source".

seriously, the guy would post 20 things he heard from his people and maybe one would turn out true. but the idiots would only focus on the one thing he got right not the 19 things he didn't get right

please don't post the rumors from that site. if we wanted to read the national enquirer shit, we would be posting on the site

[Lurker64]

i'm starting to get nervous

Why? I'm glad McCarthy isn't rushing this. It's not like we're going to run out of defensive coordinators, there's a ton of position coaches for teams like Tennessee and the Giants that are potential hires.

[Fritz]

Nervous? Burned out?

You guys must be kidding. This is fun!

[cpk1994]

rumor from another board.

Randolph Hiedler wrote 1/12/09

This is what I heard about the interviews. Nolan came in assuming he already had the job since he already framed his coaching staff. He left not exactly happy since the job wasn't handed to him on a silver platter. Thompson wanted Nolan out of town as soon as possible.

From what I understood is that Thompson was willing to pay the premium for Williams, but McCarthy didn't like his personality. Apparently Williams came off as he thought he was better than McCarthy.

Names that have came up as possible candidates: Jim Washburn, Chuck Cecil, Bill Sheridan, Keith Butler, Dave Campo, Sean McDermott.

So it looks like Nolan and Williams are out.

Is this from packerchatters.com? If so that rumor is complete, made up bull shit with no bearing on the truth what so ever. That site fucking sucks, I can't believe people actually believe the shit some of the knuckle heads make up.Speaking of which, isn't that where Arrigo hangs out?

[Lurker64]

Nervous? Burned out?

You guys must be kidding. This is fun!

Hell, I mean, before we get nervous remember that Chuck Cecil (Titans DBs coach) is available to hire. How awesome would having Chuck Cecil as our DC be? Every big name that somebody else signs just brings us one step closer to having Chuck Cecil as our DC...

[Fritz]

We'd be the defense that would be most penalized in the whole history of the league for personal fouls...

[Zool]

We'd be the defense that would be most penalized in the whole history of the league for personal fouls...

I think I'm OK with that.

[LL2]

I think it's too early to panic about not having a DC yet. I do agree with some of the opinions in this thread that Williams would be worth paying to get, since he does have a proven record. I think the Packers are not that far from having a championship caliber team. Going with an unproven guy at DC is somewhat a roll of the dice. I would not complain if MM got McDermott. Phillies defense plays awesome, and would love to see that kid of defense in GB.

[pbmax]

Mike Lombardi at National Football Post has heard (a step down from his other classification "know") that Williams isn't waiting on either the Saints or the Packers to move. He is waiting to see what develops in Tennessee. If Schwartz leaves, he wants that job. Dated the 12th.

[KYPack]

Mike Lombardi at National Football Post has heard (a step down from his other classification "know") that Williams isn't waiting on either the Saints or the Packers to move. He is waiting to see what develops in Tennessee. If Schwartz leaves, he wants that job. Dated the 12th.

I'm sure Williams would want that gig.

The Ravens, Titans, and Pitt have the D, man.

I have to wonder if Fish and Williams have any kind of connection.

The Titans defense is Jeff Fisher's defense. A senior guy like Williams might have his own ideas. Jeff would prefer to have an aggressive young guy that would follow his lead. I doubt if Jeff thinks he needs any input from Williams, or a guy like him.

[pbmax]

Mike Lombardi at National Football Post has heard (a step down from his other classification "know") that Williams isn't waiting on either the Saints or the Packers to move. He is waiting to see what develops in Tennessee. If Schwartz leaves, he wants that job. Dated the 12th.

I'm sure Williams would want that gig.

The Ravens, Titans, and Pitt have the D, man.

I have to wonder if Fish and Williams have any kind of connection.

The Titans defense is Jeff Fisher's defense. A senior guy like Williams might have his own ideas. Jeff would prefer to have an aggressive young guy that would follow his lead. I doubt if Jeff thinks he needs any input from Williams, or a guy like him.

Quite a long connection. They were both on the Buddy Ryan staff when it was the Houston Oilers and Buddy was trying to punch Kevin Gilbride for running a variation of the Run and Shoot.

I'm sure its on his bio, but Williams was LB coach and Coordinator for Fisher as they transitioned from Houston Oilers to Tennessee Oilers to Tennessee Titans. The monster Tennesse defense that go them to the Super Bowl was Williams ticket to a Head Coaching job in Buffalo.

[red]

i'm starting to get nervous

Why? I'm glad McCarthy isn't rushing this. It's not like we're going to run out of defensive coordinators, there's a ton of position coaches for teams like Tennessee and the Giants that are potential hires.

if i'm not mistaken, those guys have already had some interviews with teams

like i said, this is not a time when m3 needs to be sitting around taking his time. if you do that you're going to be picking through the leftover scraps

thats what worries me

[Bretsky]

i'm starting to get nervous

Why? I'm glad McCarthy isn't rushing this. It's not like we're going to run out of defensive coordinators, there's a ton of position coaches for teams like Tennessee and the Giants that are potential hires.

if i'm not mistaken, those guys have already had some interviews with teams

like i said, this is not a time when m3 needs to be sitting around taking his time. if you do that you're going to be picking through the leftover scraps

thats what worries me

Seeing Red and I see things the same too much lately....here's a simpler take

Would it be too f'ckin much to ask to make a bold move, a bold hire of somebody who has run the show with success ?

Or are we going to dink around for a couple weeks and risk losing some of the best perceived candidates ? :lol:

[Harlan Huckleby]

I wonder if Sanders will come back if MM begs real nice.

[red]

i'm starting to get nervous

Why? I'm glad McCarthy isn't rushing this. It's not like we're going to run out of defensive coordinators, there's a ton of position coaches for teams like Tennessee and the Giants that are potential hires.

if i'm not mistaken, those guys have already had some interviews with teams

like i said, this is not a time when m3 needs to be sitting around taking his time. if you do that you're going to be picking through the leftover scraps

thats what worries me

Seeing Red and I see things the same too much lately....here's a simpler take

Would it be too f'ckin much to ask to make a bold move, a bold hire of somebody who has run the show with success ?

Or are we going to dink around for a couple weeks and risk losing some of the best perceived candidates ? :lol:

both TT and m3 seem to me to be the kinds of guys who won't go out there and grap the world by the horns

they seem like guys that sit back and wait for things to happen

and to me, thats not good in that industry

[Lurker64]

Here's why I'm not concerned. I think it's much more important that we get a coach who can work well with McCarthy and who can work well with our players than to get a coach who is one of the perceived best candidates. Williams is unquestionably a good defensive coordinator, but to say he can be difficult to deal with is an understatement. He inherited a top 10 defense in Jacksonville, and took them to 21st in the league, largely because he was entirely unable to get along with Del Rio. Nolan did well with some outlandishly talented defenses in Baltimore, but other than that hasn't actually accomplished much (his defense in San Francisco actually got better after he left.)

I'd much rather have a position coach from a good defensive team that can work well with McCarthy than a guy with an established track record who wouldn't mesh well here.

I mean, our baseline is Bob Sanders here. It's not going to be too hard to do better.

[Bretsky]

Here's why I'm not concerned. I think it's much more important that we get a coach who can work well with McCarthy and who can work well with our players than to get a coach who is one of the perceived best candidates. Williams is unquestionably a good defensive coordinator, but to say he can be difficult to deal with is an understatement. He inherited a top 10 defense in Jacksonville, and took them to 21st in the league, largely because he was entirely unable to get along with Del Rio. Nolan did well with some outlandishly talented defenses in Baltimore, but other than that hasn't actually accomplished much (his defense in San Francisco actually got better after he left.)

I'd much rather have a position coach from a good defensive team that can work well with McCarthy than a guy with an established track record who wouldn't mesh well here.

I mean, our baseline is Bob Sanders here. It's not going to be too hard to do better.


Very true on the Sanders point

But I still want the best coach; good coaches can blend peronalities. If MM can't get along with the best candidate and is more worried about getting along I'd be pretty disappointed.

As far as the Jags, I think their fall had more to do with losing a dominating DT and injuries than it did with coaching. Well, it didn't help much that Del Rio seemed to lose some players either

[red]

i don't want a yes man for M3, or someone that thinks the same way as him

i want someone agressive that will disagree with M3 when he's doing something dumb

[RashanGary]

MM knows how Williams coaches defense. I've heard him say very positive things about how Williams defenses show up with very tough game plans (when we played them).

He knows what he can do. He knows what he does. He knows what he is even before the interview because he's competed with him in actual games. If he gets along well with him and thinks they can be a good match, then I don't think there is any reason to wait. Best case is that one of the young up and comers is a good DC and costs less money. If you're a team that can afford extra dough on a coach (and the Packers are) then why not just take the sure thing. I think we're close to something good and if we make the playoffs it will pay itself off 3 fold anyway. Working with the salary cap is very different. You pay money that takes away from other parts of the team. This takes away nothing. They have it piled up in reserves. It doesn't hurt the team at all to pay a little extra.

I understand if he thought it would be a bad working relationship, but if he doesn't think there is an issue then all he's doing is holding out for a guy that he won't know if he can do it until he does it.

[RashanGary]

I consider myself a pretty smart buyer. If there is anything I do well, it's that I almost always get more than what I pay for.

If Ted and Mike are going to take the "no stone unturned" route, that is fine but this is a case where I don't think you can grunt yourself into knowing more about the other candidates. You can't predict what a DC is going to do if he's never been a DC. You can't trust what a coach has to say about another assistant because it wall always be good.

Williams is good. If you get along with him, you're not going to find anything better and if it is it will be negligable and finding it is not a sure thing. Probably, most new DC's will be worse and 1 of the 5 might be better. Your odds aren't very good. I'm with the desperate crowd here. If you have your guy and you can afford him then get him. If you're the Vikings and price is a big part of it, I understand wanting to pan for gold, but we're not. Just pull up with the truck and pick up whatever piece you want.

If they have reservations about Williams I understand, but if you really like him and you're going to try to beat him by interviewing 32 year old assistants then I think you're an idiot if he ends up taking another job.

[Carolina_Packer]

How about Herm Edwards? Chances are Scott Pioli is going to fire him now that he is in KC, and Edwards, I believe, is a defensive guy. Edwards has ties to MM through Marty Schottenheimer. Just a thought.

[vince]

How about Herm Edwards? Chances are Scott Pioli is going to fire him now that he is in KC, and Edwards, I believe, is a defensive guy. Just a thought.
Herm's a Tampa 2 guy. Not what McCarthy is looking for I wouldn't think.

[red]

How about Herm Edwards? Chances are Scott Pioli is going to fire him now that he is in KC, and Edwards, I believe, is a defensive guy. Just a thought.
Herm's a Tampa 2 guy. Not what McCarthy is looking for I wouldn't think.

i don't know if i still buy into that 100 %. in fact i think it might be a good idea to make that move.

we use the man press because we have two of the best guys in the nfl at doing that in woodson and harris. and these guys seem very hard to come by.

harris might have 1 more year left in the tank. and woodson just might have made the permanent big move to safety that was much talked about when he first came here