GAME ON- PEPPERS TO BECOME UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENT

[Bretsky]

Per NFL Network; running accross bottom of screen

Anybody think TT will make it happen ??

[Partial]

Nope, and it will be a historically dumb move. Best FA since Reggie by a mile!

[bobblehead]

Nope, and it will be a historically dumb move. Best FA since Reggie by a mile!
I'm guessing you drew this conclusion based on him being in action on every major name to become available since he got here :roll:

Will we land him...who knows, but I think TT will be in the mix. If Peppers is offered the most money by GB but goes elsewhere ala Arrington, will this be just another example of cheapskate TT??

[packers11]

Peppers wants to be a 3-4 OLB... NOT A 4-3 DE... So unless we change schemes he is not coming here... Dream on ladies and gentlemen...

Big Albert Haynesworth is more valuable anyway... I'd rather have him (Hes younger too)...

[Partial]

Nope, and it will be a historically dumb move. Best FA since Reggie by a mile!
I'm guessing you drew this conclusion based on him being in action on every major name to become available since he got here :roll:

Will we land him...who knows, but I think TT will be in the mix. If Peppers is offered the most money by GB but goes elsewhere ala Arrington, will this be just another example of cheapskate TT??

Peppers is going to command HUGE money. Like never before seen type of money. He's the best DE in the league by a mile.

At any rate, Carolina will franchise and trade him. He's not going anywhere fo' free. With that said, Teets loved his draft picks and won't pony up the two firsts or first and second to land the stud.

As for Haynesworth providing more value, I completely disagree. Not only is DE a more important position and a tougher one to find a very good player at, but Haynesworth has serious character concerns, including a long suspension and I believe he's gotten in trouble for drugs before, too. A big no to the face stomper, at least until he has gotten into the fray for Peppers.

How good would our DL be with both of those guys :lol:

[Lurker64]

It's sort of silly to announce this now, considering that the Panthers can very easily change their mind at any point in the next month or so. They have two major FAs coming up. Clearly it looks like their priority is on Jordan Gross, but if they can work out a deal with him before FA, the Franchise Tag is going on Peppers.

[RashanGary]

Hayensworth and Peppers are going to command huge deals and will get offers from several teams. They would probably choose a better place to live for less money than come here.

We could probably lock Kampman, Jolly and Pickett all up to new deals for the same price as Peppers. Then we could sign a guy like Rocky Bernard away from Seattle, maybe get a guy early in the draft and have some growth from within and we could be in good shape. If we end up hitting a stud in teh draft, we could be in really good shape and still have money to continue building the rest of the team.

The thing about the DL, it's very important. We need to focus on getting it right, but we can't fix the DL only to fall apart elsewhere. We have to sign the right guys without overextending our budget and losing our own guys. You can't get better only to get worse. It's a give/take. It's a balancing act.

[Waldo]

Hayensworth and Peppers are going to command huge deals and will get offers from several teams. They would probably choose a better place to live for less money than come here.

We could probably lock Kampman, Jolly and Pickett all up to new deals for the same price as Peppers. Then we could sign a guy like Rocky Bernard away from Seattle, maybe get a guy early in the draft and have some growth from within and we could be in good shape. If we end up hitting a stud in teh draft, we could be in really good shape and still have money to continue building the rest of the team.

The thing about the DL, it's very important. We need to focus on getting it right, but we can't fix the DL only to fall apart elsewhere. We have to sign the right guys without overextending our budget and losing our own guys. You can't get better only to get worse. It's a give/take. It's a balancing act.

Kamp and Pickett won't require much more than they get now (very little change to the overall cap). They are both paid fairly for what they do. Jolly is not good enough to weigh starting/star caliber FA's against. For all we know Jolly could be headed to the big house or suspended several games. IMO the team is going to be replacing him ASAP, possibly as early as this year if FA and draft cards fall right and Harrell has a good camp.

[Partial]

Dude you're whack. Kampman's pay day could easily double. He is getting on average 5.25 mil a year, next to nothing compared to JA.

[RashanGary]

Here's a good scenario

Resign

Kamp (6 years, 48 mil)
Jolly (4 years, 18 mil)
Pickett (4 years, 24 mil)

Sign

Bernard (5 years, 35 mil) it always costs more for UFA's

Jeremy Thompson takes a big step and becomes a legit pass rusher
Jenkins comes back strong
Harrell has a healthy off season and becomes a good contributor

We have a really good draft, adding talent and depth across the board.

A bunch of our young guys continue to take steps forward.

We still have money to lock up Jennings, Collins, Spitz, Colledge, Tramon and others so our team can continue to grow together instead of losing good players and starting over with rookies.

[Partial]

Jeremy Thompson takes a big step and becomes a legit pass rusher
Jenkins comes back strong
Harrell has a healthy off season and becomes a good contributor

Isn't this the exact problem of last year? Relying on people to do things that they do not normally and consistently do?

Harrell cannot be looked at as someone expected to contribute or they will be in trouble again. Anything they get from him will be a benefit.

Same with Jenkins. He hasn't been an impact player in two years because of injuries, and has had a total of ONE good year out of 6.

[Waldo]

Dude you're whack. Kampman's pay day could easily double. He is getting on average 5.25 mil a year, next to nothing compared to JA.

JA is a RDE, Kamp is a LDE.

Kamp is in the top 5 highest paid LDE's. If he want's more money, he needs to move to the right and not disappear up agaisnt LT's.

Kamp is not nearly as good as the majority of Packer fans think that he is.

[RashanGary]

Several things can happen this off season that would greatly improve this team. I'm all about looking at these guys, but if they don't want to come here, there are a bunch of guys in our own lockerroom that would love to be locked up to long term deals right now and there are probably a few family type guys around the league that would be happy to come here and make this team better.

[Partial]

Dude you're whack. Kampman's pay day could easily double. He is getting on average 5.25 mil a year, next to nothing compared to JA.

JA is a RDE, Kamp is a LDE.

Kamp is in the top 5 highest paid LDE's. If he want's more money, he needs to move to the right and not disappear up agaisnt LT's.

Kamp is not nearly as good as the majority of Packer fans think that he is.

DE is DE is DE. Kampman doesn't have a say over where he plays. The coaches do. I suspect he comes close to doubling his earnings.

Kamp is very good. I get that you're a n00b, but c'mon, Kamp is a top 10 end in the NFL without a doubt.

[RashanGary]

Isn't this the exact problem of last year? Relying on people to do things that they do not normally and consistently do?

Harrell cannot be looked at as someone expected to contribute or they will be in trouble again. Anything they get from him will be a benefit.

Same with Jenkins. He hasn't been an impact player in two years because of injuries, and has had a total of ONE good year out of 6.

We still have Bernard. Which is an improvement. And everything went wrong this year. I doubt everything is going to go wrong again next year, although it could. Everything could go right to. That's the thing. No team wins it every year. It's very tempting to think you can just make it happen right now and have all the answers, but the reality is a little different. Just keep taking steps. Keep stacking successes. Get the team to that top level and hopefully the stars align with that healthy year.

[Fritz]

For those of you already bashing TT for not going after or trading for Peppers, Waldo has pointed out in another thread that the Panthers cannot franchise Peppers and trade him if they have any hope of re-signing their stud left tackle.

So Carolina may not even franchise Peppers.

Some of you guys want the Packers to run the team the way Jerry Jones runs the Cowboys - sign every big name that you've heard of, screw how old he is or whether he would work in the system employed or gosh, whether he even wants to come to Green Bay.

And how many NFC championship games has Jerry Jones's methods gotten him since 1995?

[Waldo]

Dude you're whack. Kampman's pay day could easily double. He is getting on average 5.25 mil a year, next to nothing compared to JA.

JA is a RDE, Kamp is a LDE.

Kamp is in the top 5 highest paid LDE's. If he want's more money, he needs to move to the right and not disappear up agaisnt LT's.

Kamp is not nearly as good as the majority of Packer fans think that he is.

DE is DE is DE. Kampman doesn't have a say over where he plays. The coaches do. I suspect he comes close to doubling his earnings.

Kamp is very good. I get that you're a n00b, but c'mon, Kamp is a top 10 end in the NFL without a doubt.

Must not visit FF eh, or the old GPPG board. I had nearly 2500 at the GBPG board and am closing in on 10K at FF.

That list of the Packers cap that was posted here the other day....

That was my post at FF, I independently track the cap and have for a few years.

(as a sidenote I do make sigs too, this one is one of my creations, I am willing to fill single player requests (I hate doing multi's)).

A DE is not a DE. Kamp is a tenacious bull rusher that is mediocre agaisnt the run. He gets a lot of his sacks from the superior coverage downfield, and RT's have a hard time handling him. He disappears when he lacks a backside flusher. Put Kamp on the right and put him in a zone coverage scheme, and he is at best a 5 sack a year guy. He is not athletically gifted enough to consistently beat LT's. They are rarely beaten by the bullrush, Jenkins can do it because he is the biggest 4-3 DE in the NFL. Jenkins and KGB were both superior pass rushers to Kamp.

Like I said, Kamp IS one of the highest paid LDE's. Kerney signed as a UFA with the Seahawks in '07, he is the closest comparison to Kamp in the league. Kerney got 6 yrs 39M, the contract averages between 6-7M against the cap over the life of the deal. Kamp isn't getting 6 at his age, he will get 4 or 5. If he averages more than 7-7.5M agaisnt the cap per year I will be shocked.

[bobblehead]

Nope, and it will be a historically dumb move. Best FA since Reggie by a mile!
I'm guessing you drew this conclusion based on him being in action on every major name to become available since he got here :roll:

Will we land him...who knows, but I think TT will be in the mix. If Peppers is offered the most money by GB but goes elsewhere ala Arrington, will this be just another example of cheapskate TT??

Peppers is going to command HUGE money. Like never before seen type of money. He's the best DE in the league by a mile.

At any rate, Carolina will franchise and trade him. He's not going anywhere fo' free. With that said, Teets loved his draft picks and won't pony up the two firsts or first and second to land the stud.

As for Haynesworth providing more value, I completely disagree. Not only is DE a more important position and a tougher one to find a very good player at, but Haynesworth has serious character concerns, including a long suspension and I believe he's gotten in trouble for drugs before, too. A big no to the face stomper, at least until he has gotten into the fray for Peppers.

How good would our DL be with both of those guys :lol:

Didn't you just say he was the best FA by a mile, now you are saying he will be franchised. Get your story straight, I agree we won't dish 2 firsts for the dude and a mountain of money. We shouldn't. Best FA since Reggie?? Put down the pipe. A guy named Deion might disagree. Drew Brees anyone??

I know its sexy to pull a Bill Walton and label everyone the best/greatest and try to add drama to every post, but be serious. Peppers is an elite NFL talent, I would love him even for a boatload of money (not two 1sts), but we would be just as well off signing a younger Albert who has had 2 incident free seasons in a row and is about 60 pounds bigger than Peppers.

[Partial]

Nope, and it will be a historically dumb move. Best FA since Reggie by a mile!
I'm guessing you drew this conclusion based on him being in action on every major name to become available since he got here :roll:

Will we land him...who knows, but I think TT will be in the mix. If Peppers is offered the most money by GB but goes elsewhere ala Arrington, will this be just another example of cheapskate TT??

Peppers is going to command HUGE money. Like never before seen type of money. He's the best DE in the league by a mile.

At any rate, Carolina will franchise and trade him. He's not going anywhere fo' free. With that said, Teets loved his draft picks and won't pony up the two firsts or first and second to land the stud.

As for Haynesworth providing more value, I completely disagree. Not only is DE a more important position and a tougher one to find a very good player at, but Haynesworth has serious character concerns, including a long suspension and I believe he's gotten in trouble for drugs before, too. A big no to the face stomper, at least until he has gotten into the fray for Peppers.

How good would our DL be with both of those guys :lol:

Didn't you just say he was the best FA by a mile, now you are saying he will be franchised. Get your story straight, I agree we won't dish 2 firsts for the dude and a mountain of money. We shouldn't. Best FA since Reggie?? Put down the pipe. A guy named Deion might disagree. Drew Brees anyone??

I know its sexy to pull a Bill Walton and label everyone the best/greatest and try to add drama to every post, but be serious. Peppers is an elite NFL talent, I would love him even for a boatload of money (not two 1sts), but we would be just as well off signing a younger Albert who has had 2 incident free seasons in a row and is about 60 pounds bigger than Peppers.

Deion is a HOF and Peppers will be too. Brees... I doubt it. Peppers is a stud. He is by far the best player at his position in the league. He and Mario are just a step above, then Allen.

Peppers is an extremely rare talent.

Albert isn't the best at his position in the league. I'd take KWill over him. Plus, KWill doesn't have the baggage. Of course he's bigger than Pepp, they don't play the same position... As for the incidents, I'd say its just a matter of time. Someone with such rage issues as to stomp on another humans skull and try to kill them is likely to act out again.

[Partial]

Waldo, The way Kamp was used in the Packers scheme was they sent both their ends full speed ahead. Kamp is fine against the run. I don't know what you're talking aobut.

As for him being able to play on the left or right, I'm confident he could do either. As for athleticism, thats a myth. GB had him rated as the second most athletic linemen in his draft. He's very athletic.

I'm confident he could line up anywhere and make plays.

Jenkins weighs a lot, but he isn't "big" by DE standards. He isn't long at all, and having that length is very important when trying to beat a big LT.

I completely disagree with you. I think Kamp would do fine against LTs. What is so different between JA and Kamp?!?

[Waldo]

Waldo, The way Kamp was used in the Packers scheme was they sent both their ends full speed ahead. Kamp is fine against the run. I don't know what you're talking aobut.

As for him being able to play on the left or right, I'm confident he could do either. As for athleticism, thats a myth. GB had him rated as the second most athletic linemen in his draft. He's very athletic.

I'm confident he could line up anywhere and make plays.

Jenkins weighs a lot, but he isn't "big" by DE standards. He isn't long at all, and having that length is very important when trying to beat a big LT.

I completely disagree with you. I think Kamp would do fine against LTs. What is so different between JA and Kamp?!?

Explosion is worth the $$ and is what gets RDE's their sacks unless they are strong enough to overpower the LT's (a la Jenkins)

Jared Allen is explosive, and has the ability, just like KGB, to blow past LT's.

When was the last time you saw Kamp get a sack because of his explosion? He has no explosion, he tries hard and eventually gets through, but he isn't beating a T before they get out of their stance.

Kamp is not fine agaisnt the run. He was 2 years ago, but since he has been getting skinnier and tried harder and harder to get to the QB, to the detriment of his run stopping ability. He was mediocre at best in '08 at stopping the run, and gets absolutely destroyed if they double him with a TE or FB.

[wist43]

Dude you're whack. Kampman's pay day could easily double. He is getting on average 5.25 mil a year, next to nothing compared to JA.

JA is a RDE, Kamp is a LDE.

Kamp is in the top 5 highest paid LDE's. If he want's more money, he needs to move to the right and not disappear up agaisnt LT's.

Kamp is not nearly as good as the majority of Packer fans think that he is.

DE is DE is DE. Kampman doesn't have a say over where he plays. The coaches do. I suspect he comes close to doubling his earnings.

Kamp is very good. I get that you're a n00b, but c'mon, Kamp is a top 10 end in the NFL without a doubt.

Must not visit FF eh, or the old GPPG board. I had nearly 2500 at the GBPG board and am closing in on 10K at FF.

That list of the Packers cap that was posted here the other day....

That was my post at FF, I independently track the cap and have for a few years.

(as a sidenote I do make sigs too, this one is one of my creations, I am willing to fill single player requests (I hate doing multi's)).

A DE is not a DE. Kamp is a tenacious bull rusher that is mediocre agaisnt the run. He gets a lot of his sacks from the superior coverage downfield, and RT's have a hard time handling him. He disappears when he lacks a backside flusher. Put Kamp on the right and put him in a zone coverage scheme, and he is at best a 5 sack a year guy. He is not athletically gifted enough to consistently beat LT's. They are rarely beaten by the bullrush, Jenkins can do it because he is the biggest 4-3 DE in the NFL. Jenkins and KGB were both superior pass rushers to Kamp.

Like I said, Kamp IS one of the highest paid LDE's. Kerney signed as a UFA with the Seahawks in '07, he is the closest comparison to Kamp in the league. Kerney got 6 yrs 39M, the contract averages between 6-7M against the cap over the life of the deal. Kamp isn't getting 6 at his age, he will get 4 or 5. If he averages more than 7-7.5M agaisnt the cap per year I will be shocked.

I'm with Partial on this one Waldo...

Kamp is a top flight RDE, one of the best in the league.

A few years ago I saw him as maxed out, but he has proven me wrong. He dropped a few pounds, built himself up, refined his technique, and is as tough a matchup as any RDE in the game.

He's stout at the point of attack, when called upon to perform that task, but too often the scheme calls for him to get upfield and contain, makes it look like he's too easily blocked out of the play, when in fact the design is for pursuit from the inside to make the play.

Make no mistake, Kamp is an all around end... among the best in the NFL.

[Partial]

Explosion is worth the $$ and is what gets RDE's their sacks unless they are strong enough to overpower the LT's (a la Jenkins)

Jared Allen is explosive, and has the ability, just like KGB, to blow past LT's.

When was the last time you saw Kamp get a sack because of his explosion? He has no explosion, he tries hard and eventually gets through, but he isn't beating a T before they get out of their stance.

Kamp is not fine agaisnt the run. He was 2 years ago, but since he has been getting skinnier and tried harder and harder to get to the QB, to the detriment of his run stopping ability. He was mediocre at best in '08 at stopping the run, and gets absolutely destroyed if they double him with a TE or FB.

Explosion? Christ you sound like JH with this arbitrary scale of explosion.

How is JA any more explosive than Kamp? Statistically they were very similiar players in years prior, and this year Kamp didn't have a healthy counter part where as JA had the best DT in the nfl on his line.

Kamp plays LE because the Packers had a playmaker at RE. Now that KGB is done and they recognize they can't count on Jenks, expect to see Kamp on the right side more.

They moved him around in the final week or two of the season and he looked more effective from the right side, so there goes that argument...

As for the double team, I agree he isn't a Peppers, Merriman or Mario. Those are the true SS pass rushers who can beat the double. Not many others can consistently beat it, but Kamp is very good.

As for defending the run, Kamp does't have containment responsibilities. In the scheme, the DEs play pass rush first and foremost, and let the LBs pick up the run if it comes to the created gap. Do you watch the Pack?

Is it the secondary providing an extra second getting to the QB or is it the pressure from Kamp making the secondary look good? Well, most people believe that receivers are going to break free regardless of how good the coverage is if their team isn't getting to the QB, so again, there goes that theory...

[Waldo]

Believe what you want to believe, a just like Collins is an all pro because he intercepted a lot of passes, Kamp is an all pro because he gets a lot of sacks.

Is Collins one of the top S's in the NFL?

Kamp is not explosive, his sacks are schemed and have a lot to do with his secondary and the presence of a backside flusher. If he was such a good DE, the coaches would have move him to the right and played Monty and Thompson on the left, positions that they are better suited to at this time. They know, just like any scout or coach, put Kamp on the right and he will disappear.

[Brando19]

Peppers wants to be a 3-4 OLB... NOT A 4-3 DE... So unless we change schemes he is not coming here... Dream on ladies and gentlemen...

Big Albert Haynesworth is more valuable anyway... I'd rather have him (Hes younger too)...

He said he'd rather play in a 3-4, but also said he's open to anything...he just wants a change of scenery. Sooooo....GAME ON, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN! 8-)
I think TT will look into this one hot and heavy...if he lands Peppers...he may become a fan favorite in GB for once.

[Waldo]

How is JA any more explosive than Kamp? Statistically they were very similiar players in years prior, and this year Kamp didn't have a healthy counter part where as JA had the best DT in the nfl on his line.

:roll:

Seriously, do you watch football? Kamp has never gotten a sack in his career by blowing by the RT. Jared gets several a year by blowing by the LT. KGB was pure explosion.

Individual statistics are crutches that show very little aside from the fact that you don't know what you are talking about and need individual statistics to explain it for you.

[Partial]

Kampman 40 - 4.65
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/2007-11-01-3681684679_x.htm
Allen 40 - 4.81
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Allen

It is well documented how athletic and explosive the Packers thought Kampman was. I don't know what to tell you other than I don't see any difference between Allen's "explosiveness" and Kampmans. Unless you can provide any sort of evidence, its a pretty poor argument considering the two have put up nearly identical numbers, and the explosive Allen was stoned by many of the league's top LTs.


Kamp has never gotten a sack in his career by blowing by the RT.

Source?


Jared gets several a year by blowing by the LT.

Source?

[Waldo]

The 40 has absolutely nothing to do with explosion. It is not measured. The only way to measure it would be a 3 meter dash.

My proof is watching every Packer game in Kamp's career, about 7-8 Vikings games in '08, and about 4-5 Cheifs games in '07.

Jared has KGB's explosion yet can finish like Kamp, and is better agaisnt the run than both of them.

Is Kamp more explosive than KGB? He got more sacks....

[Partial]

Dude, you're whack. You have no idea what you're talking about. Since when is a qb doing a 5 step drop 3 yards away from a QB?!?

If anything, 10 yard time is a much better indicator. Furthermore, when Kamp is ahead by that much in 40 yards, they are either getting off out of the gates at about the speed and is a better closer, getting out of the gates faster, or getting out of the gates slower but has insane acceleration..

Whichever one you choose, Kamp is getting to the QB faster.

[Waldo]

If Kamp really is as good as you think he is, why is Jenkins the RDE and Kamp the LDE, RDE is the premium position that makes the big bucks?

I will wager big money that Kamp will not get a contract that has an average yearly cap # anything more than 1M more than Pat Kerney's. He is a career LDE and a poor fit on the right, he is not explosive enough, just like Kerney.

[Bretsky]

Both of you have some good points, and Waldo, welcome to PR

All things being equal, I take JA over Kampman without thought

I think Kampman is one of the best

Just not as explosive or dominant as Allen

[Partial]

If Kamp really is as good as you think he is, why is Jenkins the RDE and Kamp the LDE, RDE is the premium position that makes the big bucks?

I will wager big money that Kamp will not get a contract that has an average yearly cap # anything more than 1M more than Pat Kerney's. He is a career LDE and a poor fit on the right, he is not explosive enough, just like Kerney.

Reggie White lined up on the left for the Packers. At least in the super bowl years.

Merriman lines up on the left often, and so did Lawrence Taylor.

What does that say?!?

[Waldo]

If Kamp really is as good as you think he is, why is Jenkins the RDE and Kamp the LDE, RDE is the premium position that makes the big bucks?

I will wager big money that Kamp will not get a contract that has an average yearly cap # anything more than 1M more than Pat Kerney's. He is a career LDE and a poor fit on the right, he is not explosive enough, just like Kerney.

Reggie White lined up on the left for the Packers. At least in the super bowl years.

Merriman lines up on the left often, and so did Lawrence Taylor.

What does that say?!?

Sean Jones lined up on the left. Fritz switched them up every now and then to take advantage of matchups.

Merriman and Taylor are/were both 3-4 WOLB's. They line up on the opposite end of the line as the TE, or on the right with no TE.

[pbmax]

If Kamp really is as good as you think he is, why is Jenkins the RDE and Kamp the LDE, RDE is the premium position that makes the big bucks?

I will wager big money that Kamp will not get a contract that has an average yearly cap # anything more than 1M more than Pat Kerney's. He is a career LDE and a poor fit on the right, he is not explosive enough, just like Kerney.

Reggie White lined up on the left for the Packers. At least in the super bowl years.

Merriman lines up on the left often, and so did Lawrence Taylor.

What does that say?!?
No, you have to stop here. You are way to young to have any idea where Lawrence Taylor lined up. He made his career and Hall of Fame by rushing from the Right Side of the defense. He almost never rushed from the Left End. That was where Carl Banks was.

Kampman is not a pass rusher and does not have Allen's skills. wist is right that he is assignment sure, rarely makes mistakes and may still be our best player on defense. But he is not a pass rusher, no matter what his sack total says.

The 3 yard explosion is not about reaching the QB, any D lineman can get there. Its the first three yards that tells you if you can get by the O Tackle cleanly.

[Partial]

If Kamp really is as good as you think he is, why is Jenkins the RDE and Kamp the LDE, RDE is the premium position that makes the big bucks?

I will wager big money that Kamp will not get a contract that has an average yearly cap # anything more than 1M more than Pat Kerney's. He is a career LDE and a poor fit on the right, he is not explosive enough, just like Kerney.

Reggie White lined up on the left for the Packers. At least in the super bowl years.

Merriman lines up on the left often, and so did Lawrence Taylor.

What does that say?!?

Sean Jones lined up on the left. Fritz switched them up every now and then to take advantage of matchups.

Merriman and Taylor are/were both 3-4 WOLB's. They line up on the opposite end of the line as the TE, or on the right with no TE.

They play OLB. I have seen Merriman line up on a TE numerous times. They switch according to match ups, but claiming that great pass rushers only line up on the right as you're implying is just foolish.

[pbmax]

OK, this argument has gotten you into the land of bad information.

Reggie RARELY lined up on the right side for the Packers. Fritz did experiment some early with him at Tackle like he used to do with the Eagles, but eventually gave that up. Sean Jones was on the Right side always.

Lawrence Taylor did NOT line up opposite the TE. He was Right Side almost exclusively.

[Partial]

OK, this argument has gotten you into the land of bad information.

Reggie RARELY lined up on the right side for the Packers. Fritz did experiment some early with him at Tackle like he used to do with the Eagles, but eventually gave that up. Sean Jones was on the Right side always.

Lawrence Taylor did NOT line up opposite the TE. He was Right Side almost exclusively.

Agree on Reggie 100%, as its exactly what I stated.

I have seen quite a few highlights on youtube right now with Taylor coming from the left, but I've never seen a live game with him as I'm too young so we'll go with what you said.

In any case, I disagree with you about Kampman not being a pass rusher. He's a pretty good pass rusher imo. His sack numbers don't lie. Pass rushing is about generating pressure. Kampman has been near the top in sacks and pressures for the past 4 years. That to me says he's quite effective at generating pressure. The evidence is pretty much undeniable.

[pbmax]

I have seen quite a few highlights on youtube right now with Taylor coming from the left, but I've never seen a live game with him as I'm too young so we'll go with what you said.
Well, now I have gone and overstated my argument. Taylor was weakside and Banks was stongside but that only held until it was time to rush the passer, when Taylor usually lined up on the right, even if it meant he faced the TE and Tackle.

[cpk1994]

Nope, and it will be a historically dumb move. Best FA since Reggie by a mile!
I'm guessing you drew this conclusion based on him being in action on every major name to become available since he got here :roll:

Will we land him...who knows, but I think TT will be in the mix. If Peppers is offered the most money by GB but goes elsewhere ala Arrington, will this be just another example of cheapskate TT??

Peppers is going to command HUGE money. Like never before seen type of money. He's the best DE in the league by a mile.

At any rate, Carolina will franchise and trade him. He's not going anywhere fo' free. With that said, Teets loved his draft picks and won't pony up the two firsts or first and second to land the stud.

As for Haynesworth providing more value, I completely disagree. Not only is DE a more important position and a tougher one to find a very good player at, but Haynesworth has serious character concerns, including a long suspension and I believe he's gotten in trouble for drugs before, too. A big no to the face stomper, at least until he has gotten into the fray for Peppers.

How good would our DL be with both of those guys :lol:Nobody will pony up 2 firsts for Peppers, so stop with the tiered bullshit about TT.

[Fred's Slacks]

In any case, I disagree with you about Kampman not being a pass rusher. He's a pretty good pass rusher imo. His sack numbers don't lie. Pass rushing is about generating pressure. Kampman has been near the top in sacks and pressures for the past 4 years. That to me says he's quite effective at generating pressure. The evidence is pretty much undeniable.

Not disagreeing on Kampman. I also think he's a good pass rusher. He does it his way, as I agree with Waldo that he's not as explosive, but with the numbers he consistently puts up its hard to argue against.

Why is it though, that you can say Kampmans stats prove he is an elite DE, yet Rodgers puts together terrific stats and you say he's a product of they system/play calling? :?:

[red]

like someone already said. peppers wants to be free so he can play in the 3-4

unless we make that switch, we will have no shot at him

and then, honestly, would you want to pay the top de, top de money only so you can play him at a position where you don't know if he can play or not?

[Lurker64]

like someone already said. peppers wants to be free so he can play in the 3-4

unless we make that switch, we will have no shot at him

I'm not so sure how serious he is about playing in the 3-4. By saying that, and sticking to it, he really dramatically hurts his marketability as a free agent. Since he would only be of any value to the ten or so teams that run the 3-4 and then only the subset of those who have sufficient cap room to pay him like he obviously wants to get paid.

Personally I think the "I want to play in the 3-4" thing is just a ploy to get out of Carolina. Considering the probably poisonous atmosphere there after the recent dismantling, I don't really blame him. "I want to play in a different style of defense" makes you look better on the way out than "these guys stink, I'm never going to succeed here, I'd like to go play for a team who has a quarterback capable of completing passes to his teammates."

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

like someone already said. peppers wants to be free so he can play in the 3-4

unless we make that switch, we will have no shot at him

I'm not so sure how serious he is about playing in the 3-4. By saying that, and sticking to it, he really dramatically hurts his marketability as a free agent. Since he would only be of any value to the ten or so teams that run the 3-4 and then only the subset of those who have sufficient cap room to pay him like he obviously wants to get paid.

Personally I think the "I want to play in the 3-4" thing is just a ploy to get out of Carolina. Considering the probably poisonous atmosphere there after the recent dismantling, I don't really blame him. "I want to play in a different style of defense" makes you look better on the way out than "these guys stink, I'm never going to succeed here, I'd like to go play for a team who has a quarterback capable of completing passes to his teammates."

I agree 100%. If you show the guy the money he wants, anyone has a shot at him.

[bobblehead]

If Kamp really is as good as you think he is, why is Jenkins the RDE and Kamp the LDE, RDE is the premium position that makes the big bucks?

I will wager big money that Kamp will not get a contract that has an average yearly cap # anything more than 1M more than Pat Kerney's. He is a career LDE and a poor fit on the right, he is not explosive enough, just like Kerney.

Waldo, I'll back you in 9/10 arguements against partial, but Mario plays LDE as well. So did Reggie White. Guys play right or left for a variety of reasons. Some guys move around.

I agree Kamp isn't flat out explosive like KGB was, but he had about 12 more techniques and was/is a better pass rusher than KGB. Certainly stats can decieve, but Kamp is first rate at this point. He does it differently than some guys, but he gets the job done.

Teams run AWAY from Kamp more than they run at him. That is why when Jenkins took over for KGB we got a lot better against the run. Kamp does exactly what our scheme asks of him without failure. I virtually never throw things at the TV cuz Kamp screwed up or was owned on a play...he is the ONLY defender I felt that way about this season.

I know its popular and fun to label white guys "try hard or non athletic" but it just isn't so. Kamp is gifted in many ways, not just a try hard guy. Kamp is much more effective than simple speed rushers as he likes to use his speed to get a guy off balance then push him to the QB. That style is better as a QB has a harder time stepping into the pocket or escaping it. It runs him into other defenders...it is our scheme (or was). If Jenkins stays healthy and we add a threat you are going to see Kampman with a HUGE year.

As much as I like TT, I miss Mark Hatley. That guy had a unique eye for talent. Drafting guys like KGB and Kampman after the 3rd round. Trading a 2nd for Al Harris. Moving up for Javon Walker. Now those were some great moves. If he hadn't died, we would still have Sherman, never heard of BJ Sanders and be celebrating another trip to the superbowl this year.

[bobblehead]

OK, this argument has gotten you into the land of bad information.

Reggie RARELY lined up on the right side for the Packers. Fritz did experiment some early with him at Tackle like he used to do with the Eagles, but eventually gave that up. Sean Jones was on the Right side always.

Lawrence Taylor did NOT line up opposite the TE. He was Right Side almost exclusively.

edit: sorry, I got my left and right confused. You are right, reggie was mostly LEFT. I was arguing with you all the while agreeing.

[ND72]

If Peppers is offered the most money by GB but goes elsewhere ala Arrington, will this be just another example of cheapskate TT??


I just want to point out the fact that first you offered the idea that Teddy would offer him the most money, and then called TT a cheapskate....

[Waldo]

If Kamp really is as good as you think he is, why is Jenkins the RDE and Kamp the LDE, RDE is the premium position that makes the big bucks?

I will wager big money that Kamp will not get a contract that has an average yearly cap # anything more than 1M more than Pat Kerney's. He is a career LDE and a poor fit on the right, he is not explosive enough, just like Kerney.

Waldo, I'll back you in 9/10 arguements against partial, but Mario plays LDE as well. So did Reggie White. Guys play right or left for a variety of reasons. Some guys move around.

I agree Kamp isn't flat out explosive like KGB was, but he had about 12 more techniques and was/is a better pass rusher than KGB. Certainly stats can decieve, but Kamp is first rate at this point. He does it differently than some guys, but he gets the job done.

Teams run AWAY from Kamp more than they run at him. That is why when Jenkins took over for KGB we got a lot better against the run. Kamp does exactly what our scheme asks of him without failure. I virtually never throw things at the TV cuz Kamp screwed up or was owned on a play...he is the ONLY defender I felt that way about this season.

I know its popular and fun to label white guys "try hard or non athletic" but it just isn't so. Kamp is gifted in many ways, not just a try hard guy. Kamp is much more effective than simple speed rushers as he likes to use his speed to get a guy off balance then push him to the QB. That style is better as a QB has a harder time stepping into the pocket or escaping it. It runs him into other defenders...it is our scheme (or was). If Jenkins stays healthy and we add a threat you are going to see Kampman with a HUGE year.

As much as I like TT, I miss Mark Hatley. That guy had a unique eye for talent. Drafting guys like KGB and Kampman after the 3rd round. Trading a 2nd for Al Harris. Moving up for Javon Walker. Now those were some great moves. If he hadn't died, we would still have Sherman, never heard of BJ Sanders and be celebrating another trip to the superbowl this year.

Jared Allen was a large part of this discussion, he is very explosive, unlike Kamp.

[Lurker64]

If Peppers is offered the most money by GB but goes elsewhere ala Arrington, will this be just another example of cheapskate TT??


I just want to point out the fact that first you offered the idea that Teddy would offer him the most money, and then called TT a cheapskate....

I believe the question was actually, "if TT is the highest bidder, but Peppers goes elsewhere for non-monetary reasons, will people use this (incorrectly) as more evidence that Thompson is cheap?"

[bobblehead]

In any case, I disagree with you about Kampman not being a pass rusher. He's a pretty good pass rusher imo. His sack numbers don't lie. Pass rushing is about generating pressure. Kampman has been near the top in sacks and pressures for the past 4 years. That to me says he's quite effective at generating pressure. The evidence is pretty much undeniable.

Why is it though, that you can say Kampmans stats prove he is an elite DE, yet Rodgers puts together terrific stats and you say he's a product of they system/play calling? :?:

QFT...was going to say the same thing.

[bobblehead]

If Peppers is offered the most money by GB but goes elsewhere ala Arrington, will this be just another example of cheapskate TT??


I just want to point out the fact that first you offered the idea that Teddy would offer him the most money, and then called TT a cheapskate....

I believe the question was actually, "if TT is the highest bidder, but Peppers goes elsewhere for non-monetary reasons, will people use this (incorrectly) as more evidence that Thompson is cheap?"

correct, thank you.

[ND72]

Must not visit FF eh, or the old GPPG board. I had nearly 2500 at the GBPG board and am closing in on 10K at FF.


so the number of posts on an online message board signifies intelligence now. awesome.

[bobblehead]

If Kamp really is as good as you think he is, why is Jenkins the RDE and Kamp the LDE, RDE is the premium position that makes the big bucks?

I will wager big money that Kamp will not get a contract that has an average yearly cap # anything more than 1M more than Pat Kerney's. He is a career LDE and a poor fit on the right, he is not explosive enough, just like Kerney.

Waldo, I'll back you in 9/10 arguements against partial, but Mario plays LDE as well. So did Reggie White. Guys play right or left for a variety of reasons. Some guys move around.

I agree Kamp isn't flat out explosive like KGB was, but he had about 12 more techniques and was/is a better pass rusher than KGB. Certainly stats can decieve, but Kamp is first rate at this point. He does it differently than some guys, but he gets the job done.

Teams run AWAY from Kamp more than they run at him. That is why when Jenkins took over for KGB we got a lot better against the run. Kamp does exactly what our scheme asks of him without failure. I virtually never throw things at the TV cuz Kamp screwed up or was owned on a play...he is the ONLY defender I felt that way about this season.

I know its popular and fun to label white guys "try hard or non athletic" but it just isn't so. Kamp is gifted in many ways, not just a try hard guy. Kamp is much more effective than simple speed rushers as he likes to use his speed to get a guy off balance then push him to the QB. That style is better as a QB has a harder time stepping into the pocket or escaping it. It runs him into other defenders...it is our scheme (or was). If Jenkins stays healthy and we add a threat you are going to see Kampman with a HUGE year.

As much as I like TT, I miss Mark Hatley. That guy had a unique eye for talent. Drafting guys like KGB and Kampman after the 3rd round. Trading a 2nd for Al Harris. Moving up for Javon Walker. Now those were some great moves. If he hadn't died, we would still have Sherman, never heard of BJ Sanders and be celebrating another trip to the superbowl this year.

Jared Allen was a large part of this discussion, he is very explosive, unlike Kamp.

True, but I think Kamp is getting the white guy rap. Let me see if I can find the shuttle run numbers in the combine, that is the true measure of explosiveness.

[ND72]

The 40 has absolutely nothing to do with explosion. It is not measured. The only way to measure it would be a 3 meter dash.




Let me quote my college coach...."every NFL scout times 40 yard dashes to see what kind of explosion, and top end speed you have..."

[ND72]

If Peppers is offered the most money by GB but goes elsewhere ala Arrington, will this be just another example of cheapskate TT??


I just want to point out the fact that first you offered the idea that Teddy would offer him the most money, and then called TT a cheapskate....

I believe the question was actually, "if TT is the highest bidder, but Peppers goes elsewhere for non-monetary reasons, will people use this (incorrectly) as more evidence that Thompson is cheap?"

correct, thank you.


My bad :D Then it's a great point 8-)

[Waldo]

Must not visit FF eh, or the old GPPG board. I had nearly 2500 at the GBPG board and am closing in on 10K at FF.


so the number of posts on an online message board signifies intelligence now. awesome.

Nope, but I was being called an inexperienced noob that doesn't know what they are talking about, something that I take quite personally. I can hang with anybody in a football convo.

[Waldo]

If Kamp really is as good as you think he is, why is Jenkins the RDE and Kamp the LDE, RDE is the premium position that makes the big bucks?

I will wager big money that Kamp will not get a contract that has an average yearly cap # anything more than 1M more than Pat Kerney's. He is a career LDE and a poor fit on the right, he is not explosive enough, just like Kerney.

Waldo, I'll back you in 9/10 arguements against partial, but Mario plays LDE as well. So did Reggie White. Guys play right or left for a variety of reasons. Some guys move around.

I agree Kamp isn't flat out explosive like KGB was, but he had about 12 more techniques and was/is a better pass rusher than KGB. Certainly stats can decieve, but Kamp is first rate at this point. He does it differently than some guys, but he gets the job done.

Teams run AWAY from Kamp more than they run at him. That is why when Jenkins took over for KGB we got a lot better against the run. Kamp does exactly what our scheme asks of him without failure. I virtually never throw things at the TV cuz Kamp screwed up or was owned on a play...he is the ONLY defender I felt that way about this season.

I know its popular and fun to label white guys "try hard or non athletic" but it just isn't so. Kamp is gifted in many ways, not just a try hard guy. Kamp is much more effective than simple speed rushers as he likes to use his speed to get a guy off balance then push him to the QB. That style is better as a QB has a harder time stepping into the pocket or escaping it. It runs him into other defenders...it is our scheme (or was). If Jenkins stays healthy and we add a threat you are going to see Kampman with a HUGE year.

As much as I like TT, I miss Mark Hatley. That guy had a unique eye for talent. Drafting guys like KGB and Kampman after the 3rd round. Trading a 2nd for Al Harris. Moving up for Javon Walker. Now those were some great moves. If he hadn't died, we would still have Sherman, never heard of BJ Sanders and be celebrating another trip to the superbowl this year.

Jared Allen was a large part of this discussion, he is very explosive, unlike Kamp.

True, but I think Kamp is getting the white guy rap. Let me see if I can find the shuttle run numbers in the combine, that is the true measure of explosiveness.

When was the last time Kamp blew by the RT before he was out of his stance. A TRUE measure of effective defensive end explosiveness.

..never.

[pbmax]

The 40 has absolutely nothing to do with explosion. It is not measured. The only way to measure it would be a 3 meter dash.




Let me quote my college coach...."every NFL scout times 40 yard dashes to see what kind of explosion, and top end speed you have..."
But did they really care about the DE's 40 speed in evaluating his pass rush?

[red]

for me, 40 times are more about watching how the guy runs

you can spot a good athlete, or a scrapper

like the guy that just got the sack. ngata. he was hage, and he didn't have a blazing time, but you could see in the way he ran that he had an engine in him

i don't know. some guys just look comfortable running the thing. other look like they've never run a second of their life

[Lurker64]

For the NFL combine, during the 40 yd dash, don't they also take data on the 10 yd splits? I'd think the 0-10 yd split would be a reasonable measure of explosiveness.

[MJZiggy]

Must not visit FF eh, or the old GPPG board. I had nearly 2500 at the GBPG board and am closing in on 10K at FF.


so the number of posts on an online message board signifies intelligence now. awesome.

I'M A GENIUS!!!! :lol: :lol: :mrgreen:

[Fritz]

Me too! Or, to quote Homer Simpson:

:I am smart! I am smart! S-M-R-T, I am smart!

[Tony Oday]

So with Dom in the Mix and he is familiar with the 3-4 does this put us in a better position for Peppers?

[Partial]

If Kamp really is as good as you think he is, why is Jenkins the RDE and Kamp the LDE, RDE is the premium position that makes the big bucks?

I will wager big money that Kamp will not get a contract that has an average yearly cap # anything more than 1M more than Pat Kerney's. He is a career LDE and a poor fit on the right, he is not explosive enough, just like Kerney.

Waldo, I'll back you in 9/10 arguements against partial, but Mario plays LDE as well. So did Reggie White. Guys play right or left for a variety of reasons. Some guys move around.

I agree Kamp isn't flat out explosive like KGB was, but he had about 12 more techniques and was/is a better pass rusher than KGB. Certainly stats can decieve, but Kamp is first rate at this point. He does it differently than some guys, but he gets the job done.

Teams run AWAY from Kamp more than they run at him. That is why when Jenkins took over for KGB we got a lot better against the run. Kamp does exactly what our scheme asks of him without failure. I virtually never throw things at the TV cuz Kamp screwed up or was owned on a play...he is the ONLY defender I felt that way about this season.

I know its popular and fun to label white guys "try hard or non athletic" but it just isn't so. Kamp is gifted in many ways, not just a try hard guy. Kamp is much more effective than simple speed rushers as he likes to use his speed to get a guy off balance then push him to the QB. That style is better as a QB has a harder time stepping into the pocket or escaping it. It runs him into other defenders...it is our scheme (or was). If Jenkins stays healthy and we add a threat you are going to see Kampman with a HUGE year.

As much as I like TT, I miss Mark Hatley. That guy had a unique eye for talent. Drafting guys like KGB and Kampman after the 3rd round. Trading a 2nd for Al Harris. Moving up for Javon Walker. Now those were some great moves. If he hadn't died, we would still have Sherman, never heard of BJ Sanders and be celebrating another trip to the superbowl this year.

Agreed. Good post outside of the unnecessary bash. If you read the forums more you'd see I'm frequently a very knowledgable and good football poster. I just don't see eye to eye with many on the QB position and don't see it with A-Rod. I'm entitled to my opinion, though.

[Partial]

In any case, I disagree with you about Kampman not being a pass rusher. He's a pretty good pass rusher imo. His sack numbers don't lie. Pass rushing is about generating pressure. Kampman has been near the top in sacks and pressures for the past 4 years. That to me says he's quite effective at generating pressure. The evidence is pretty much undeniable.

Why is it though, that you can say Kampmans stats prove he is an elite DE, yet Rodgers puts together terrific stats and you say he's a product of they system/play calling? :?:

QFT...was going to say the same thing.

Cause Kampman is a complete player. Rodgers uses maybe half the field as Nutz and I have pointed out numerous times. Our offense is incredibly vanilla, and that is why we struggled with points in the second half of the year.

[Partial]

Nope, and it will be a historically dumb move. Best FA since Reggie by a mile!
I'm guessing you drew this conclusion based on him being in action on every major name to become available since he got here :roll:

Will we land him...who knows, but I think TT will be in the mix. If Peppers is offered the most money by GB but goes elsewhere ala Arrington, will this be just another example of cheapskate TT??

Peppers is going to command HUGE money. Like never before seen type of money. He's the best DE in the league by a mile.

At any rate, Carolina will franchise and trade him. He's not going anywhere fo' free. With that said, Teets loved his draft picks and won't pony up the two firsts or first and second to land the stud.

As for Haynesworth providing more value, I completely disagree. Not only is DE a more important position and a tougher one to find a very good player at, but Haynesworth has serious character concerns, including a long suspension and I believe he's gotten in trouble for drugs before, too. A big no to the face stomper, at least until he has gotten into the fray for Peppers.

How good would our DL be with both of those guys :lol:Nobody will pony up 2 firsts for Peppers, so stop with the tiered bullshit about TT.

Don't be so sure about that. Didn't Allen cost a first, a second and a third? Peppers is a way better player than Allen, though he is older.

[bobblehead]

You're right partial, I agree with you a lot when it doesn't involve Aaron Rodgers. You do have good football knowledge and my unnecessary as was more a result of the rodgers stuff. It goes both ways though, I also think JH is a great knowledgeable poster too...as long as he stays away from the BF stuff.

Incidentally I agreed with you on Morency too....but we both got egg on our face for that one.

[cpk1994]

Nope, and it will be a historically dumb move. Best FA since Reggie by a mile!
I'm guessing you drew this conclusion based on him being in action on every major name to become available since he got here :roll:

Will we land him...who knows, but I think TT will be in the mix. If Peppers is offered the most money by GB but goes elsewhere ala Arrington, will this be just another example of cheapskate TT??

Peppers is going to command HUGE money. Like never before seen type of money. He's the best DE in the league by a mile.

At any rate, Carolina will franchise and trade him. He's not going anywhere fo' free. With that said, Teets loved his draft picks and won't pony up the two firsts or first and second to land the stud.

As for Haynesworth providing more value, I completely disagree. Not only is DE a more important position and a tougher one to find a very good player at, but Haynesworth has serious character concerns, including a long suspension and I believe he's gotten in trouble for drugs before, too. A big no to the face stomper, at least until he has gotten into the fray for Peppers.

How good would our DL be with both of those guys :lol:Nobody will pony up 2 firsts for Peppers, so stop with the tiered bullshit about TT.

Don't be so sure about that. Didn't Allen cost a first, a second and a third? Peppers is a way better player than Allen, though he is older.Yes but that only affected one draft. 2 1st rounders will fuck up two years. No one will pony up 2 first rounders. Not gonna happen.

[vince]

If you read the forums more you'd see I'm frequently a very knowledgable and good football poster.
The one and only. It's good to see that you approve of your football knowledge.

[SMACKTALKIE]

Nope, and it will be a historically dumb move. Best FA since Reggie by a mile!
I'm guessing you drew this conclusion based on him being in action on every major name to become available since he got here :roll:

Will we land him...who knows, but I think TT will be in the mix. If Peppers is offered the most money by GB but goes elsewhere ala Arrington, will this be just another example of cheapskate TT??

Peppers is going to command HUGE money. Like never before seen type of money. He's the best DE in the league by a mile.

At any rate, Carolina will franchise and trade him. He's not going anywhere fo' free. With that said, Teets loved his draft picks and won't pony up the two firsts or first and second to land the stud.

As for Haynesworth providing more value, I completely disagree. Not only is DE a more important position and a tougher one to find a very good player at, but Haynesworth has serious character concerns, including a long suspension and I believe he's gotten in trouble for drugs before, too. A big no to the face stomper, at least until he has gotten into the fray for Peppers.

How good would our DL be with both of those guys :lol:Nobody will pony up 2 firsts for Peppers, so stop with the tiered bullshit about TT.

Don't be so sure about that. Didn't Allen cost a first, a second and a third? Peppers is a way better player than Allen, though he is older.Yes but that only affected one draft. 2 1st rounders will fuck up two years. No one will pony up 2 first rounders. Not gonna happen.

JA cost a first, two thirds, and some sort of later round swap like a 7th for a 6th. Vikings selected Tyrell Johnson with their 2nd. And yes, nobody will give up 2 firsts for Peppers. Maybe 4 years ago but not today.

[imscott72]

Nope, and it will be a historically dumb move. Best FA since Reggie by a mile!
I'm guessing you drew this conclusion based on him being in action on every major name to become available since he got here :roll:

Will we land him...who knows, but I think TT will be in the mix. If Peppers is offered the most money by GB but goes elsewhere ala Arrington, will this be just another example of cheapskate TT??

Peppers is going to command HUGE money. Like never before seen type of money. He's the best DE in the league by a mile.

At any rate, Carolina will franchise and trade him. He's not going anywhere fo' free. With that said, Teets loved his draft picks and won't pony up the two firsts or first and second to land the stud.

As for Haynesworth providing more value, I completely disagree. Not only is DE a more important position and a tougher one to find a very good player at, but Haynesworth has serious character concerns, including a long suspension and I believe he's gotten in trouble for drugs before, too. A big no to the face stomper, at least until he has gotten into the fray for Peppers.

How good would our DL be with both of those guys :lol:Nobody will pony up 2 firsts for Peppers, so stop with the tiered bullshit about TT.

Don't be so sure about that. Didn't Allen cost a first, a second and a third? Peppers is a way better player than Allen, though he is older.Yes but that only affected one draft. 2 1st rounders will fuck up two years. No one will pony up 2 first rounders. Not gonna happen.

Agreed. If Carolina franchises Peppers, they're stuck with him.

[SkinBasket]

If you read the forums more you'd see I'm frequently a very knowledgable and good football poster.

Per word, this might be the most ridiculous sentence this forum has ever seen. It makes me giggle and vomit in one bold stroke. Amazing.

[Gunakor]

Nope, and it will be a historically dumb move. Best FA since Reggie by a mile!
I'm guessing you drew this conclusion based on him being in action on every major name to become available since he got here :roll:

Will we land him...who knows, but I think TT will be in the mix. If Peppers is offered the most money by GB but goes elsewhere ala Arrington, will this be just another example of cheapskate TT??

Peppers is going to command HUGE money. Like never before seen type of money. He's the best DE in the league by a mile.

At any rate, Carolina will franchise and trade him. He's not going anywhere fo' free. With that said, Teets loved his draft picks and won't pony up the two firsts or first and second to land the stud.

As for Haynesworth providing more value, I completely disagree. Not only is DE a more important position and a tougher one to find a very good player at, but Haynesworth has serious character concerns, including a long suspension and I believe he's gotten in trouble for drugs before, too. A big no to the face stomper, at least until he has gotten into the fray for Peppers.

How good would our DL be with both of those guys :lol:Nobody will pony up 2 firsts for Peppers, so stop with the tiered bullshit about TT.

Don't be so sure about that. Didn't Allen cost a first, a second and a third? Peppers is a way better player than Allen, though he is older.Yes but that only affected one draft. 2 1st rounders will fuck up two years. No one will pony up 2 first rounders. Not gonna happen.

Agreed. If Carolina franchises Peppers, they're stuck with him.

Carolina can franchise and trade Peppers, like TT did with Corey Williams, for whatever terms all parties agree to. That could be 2 firsts, or one second. Or whatever.

[Lurker64]

Carolina can franchise and trade Peppers, like TT did with Corey Williams, for whatever terms all parties agree to. That could be 2 firsts, or one second. Or whatever.

They will not do so, however, unless they work out a longterm deal with their stud LT Jordan Gross before the free agency period. Gross had much more to do with the success of the Panthers last year than Peppers and has more football ahead of him than Peppers.

[mission]

If you read the forums more you'd see I'm frequently a very knowledgable and good football poster.

Per word, this might be the most ridiculous sentence this forum has ever seen. It makes me giggle and vomit in one bold stroke. Amazing.


I gotta admit, I read that sentence 6-7 times just to make sure that's what it was saying :lol:

[Partial]

At any rate, Peppers is the splash they need. Best player in the league at the 2nd most important position.

[Carolina_Packer]

If Peppers gets tagged and the price is a couple of draft picks and TT uncharacteristically lays them on the table to get Peppers, would we keep him happy and playing hard every play? He's been known to disappear in games. I would rather have a more underrated guy who plays hard all the time. If the Panthers sign Gross, I think Peppers gets tagged and the price is too high.

[Bretsky]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/panthers/story/488180.html

[Gunakor]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/panthers/story/488180.html

Wow... Panther fans really seem to want to get rid of him. Looking at some of those comments left by their fans, it makes you wonder about signing a guy like Peppers at the price he's going to come with.

Baltimore has 3 players whose contracts expire this offseason that would be as great a fit on our team as Peppers, and likely won't cost nearly as much. I'm ready to move past Peppers and focus on one of these 3 guys.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Wow... Panther fans really seem to want to get rid of him. Looking at some of those comments left by their fans, it makes you wonder about signing a guy like Peppers at the price he's going to come with.

I'm not sure about that. Fans tend to rag on a guy when they think he might leave. It's natural.

[retailguy]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/panthers/story/488180.html

Wow... Panther fans really seem to want to get rid of him. Looking at some of those comments left by their fans, it makes you wonder about signing a guy like Peppers at the price he's going to come with.

Baltimore has 3 players whose contracts expire this offseason that would be as great a fit on our team as Peppers, and likely won't cost nearly as much. I'm ready to move past Peppers and focus on one of these 3 guys.

You know, I've been very hard on old Ted about not signing free agents. Yet, I'd be OK with the idea of bypassing Peppers. I still have vivid memories of Joe Johnson... No FA signing is a sure thing, just like no Draft pick is a sure thing. That's why we need BOTH.

I think Gunakor is right. We need a FA, maybe two if we can get them. Getting Peppers costs so much, it'd make it difficult to fill other holes, and pay our own people. Getting one of the Baltimore guys might enable us to get another DL this season. We need more than one guy, especially with the pending switch to the 3-4.

[mraynrand]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/panthers/story/488180.html

Wow... Panther fans really seem to want to get rid of him. Looking at some of those comments left by their fans, it makes you wonder about signing a guy like Peppers at the price he's going to come with.

Baltimore has 3 players whose contracts expire this offseason that would be as great a fit on our team as Peppers, and likely won't cost nearly as much. I'm ready to move past Peppers and focus on one of these 3 guys.

You know, I've been very hard on old Ted about not signing free agents. Yet, I'd be OK with the idea of bypassing Peppers. I still have vivid memories of Joe Johnson... No FA signing is a sure thing, just like no Draft pick is a sure thing. That's why we need BOTH.

I think Gunakor is right. We need a FA, maybe two if we can get them. Getting Peppers costs so much, it'd make it difficult to fill other holes, and pay our own people. Getting one of the Baltimore guys might enable us to get another DL this season. We need more than one guy, especially with the pending switch to the 3-4.

I have virtually no memories of Joe Johnson. But I think I'm making the same point you were!

[Waldo]

So the Trgovac development and the fact that Capers is running a 3-4 puts an interesting spin on this. :idea:

[swede]

So the Trgovac development and the fact that Capers is running a 3-4 puts an interesting spin on this. :idea:

But Peppers wanted out of Trgovac's D-Line in Carolina.

Do we know if he likes Trgovac?

Without more information about the relationship between the two, the hiring of Trgovac may cut as much one way as the other vis a vis the Julius Peppers situation.

And Ted's take on Free Agency is clear; I've heard him articulate the same message in several different interviews. He considers free agency a helpful tool in the right situations, but one has to avoid overpaying a great player in year "A" if it means losing multiple quality players of your own in years "B" and "C".

Maybe, just maybe, Ted is getting nervous enough to go a little short term for once and actually go after Peppers. Unfortunately, if we do get involved in the bidding, we'll probably end up empty-handed after driving up the price for someone else.

And if Peppers doesn't like Trgovac they're already done talking about him up in the Packer offices.

[Waldo]

Depends on whether Peppers' problems were personal or schematic. Remember Fox is a defensive HC and keeper of the scheme. I've seen rumors (well before he was hired) that Peppers wanted to play for Capers. I also have seen another rumor that the DL coach, not Trgovac, was the problem. Too much effort to link to them all right now (maybe I'll be more motivated a little later and do the hunting). Also, unless Gross signs a relatively cheap long term contract prior to the tag date, they don't have the cap space to franchise Pep.

This is a good year for FA if you have the cap space to frontload, since a lot of the long term cap hit can be dumped into the uncapped year in the form of roster bonuses and salary. The uncapped year means we will be able to keep everybody that we want at relatively good cap #'s. It is no coincidence that a ton of contracts end prior to next season. TT has been planning for this for a while. A smart GM can come out of the uncapped year in a very good gap situation.

[digitaldean]

http://www.heraldonline.com/247/story/1077202.html

Peppers (through his agent) has said that no matter what the Panthers change or decide, he is done with the team.

So that does leave a glimmer of a chance to get him in FA.

Still would be Haynesworth over him (of if Haynesworth isn't franchised).

[Sef0r]

http://www.heraldonline.com/247/story/1077202.html

Peppers (through his agent) has said that no matter what the Panthers change or decide, he is done with the team.

So that does leave a glimmer of a chance to get him in FA.

Still would be Haynesworth over him (of if Haynesworth isn't franchised).

You don't think Hayneworth wasn't playing for a contract this year? C.Hunt = nuff said.

Same goes for Peppers, he probably knew going into this season he was done with the team and played for a contract....I mean look at the Panthers, they made it into the playoffs. Why leave that?

I will however say this, of the two that most people are talking about on the DL, Peppers is by far the better player. In a 3-4 as an OLB blizing and being allowed to roam...oh the thoughts of an OC trying to contain him and still cover for Jenkins, Hawk and Kampman....