Barnett

[RashanGary]

4-3 linebackers tend to be faster and better in coverage. Because of the extra Dlineman, they rarely have to take on OL blocks. Often times they are converted safeties or undersized linbackers.

3-4 linebackers are exposed more to offensive lineman. With one fewer Dlineman, the offensive line often reaches the linebackers and they have to be able to at least hold the point. Often times they are coverted defensive lineman or oversized linebackers.


What type of linebacker do you think Nick Barnett is? Look at the Pitt and Balt linebackers. Does Nick Barnett look like or play like any of them?

[Partial]

Yeah... 4-3 linebackers rarely take on blockers... WTF are you talking about?

With that said, no, I don't think Barnett is a 3-4 backer. Same way a great 4-3 MLB in Vilma wasn't. Too small.

[Fritz]

I don't know. I don't usually see any of them without their helmets.

http://www.instantrimshot.com/

[BallHawk]

If the football field was a nightclub and the offense was obnoxious women, then yes, I think he could pull off 4-3.

But, unfortunately, since that isn't the case......I don't think the future looks bright for him. Which is horrible, since I'm a huge Nick fan.

[RashanGary]

I think the writing is on the wall. If they can't trade him, I think they'll cut him. I've really warmed up to Kamp as an OLB. I think he's an ideal rush LB.

[texaspackerbacker]

The idea is that with the 3-4, you're a lot more likely to have two LBs converging at the point of attack on inside runs. And on outside runs, we will have two ILBs to get outside instead of just one in the middle.

Barnett should thrive in the 3-4, and Hawk should thrive even more so, as he seems like a natural inside guy.

[Bossman641]

Barnett will be fine, assuming he is healthy. I think many of you are much too quick to write him off.

[red]

240, 239, and 243

are those sizes too small for 3-4 lb's?



OLB James Harrison 240 pounds

ilb's larry foote-239, James Farrior- 243

afc champ pittsburgh steelers. #1 d in nfl



cowboys inside lb's

zach thomas- 240
Bradie James- 245

ravens

bart scott-240
ray lewis-250

pats

jerod mayo-242
Tedy Bruschi-247

49ers

Jeff Ulbrich-240
Patrick Willis-240

all starting inside lb's in the 3-4

[mission]

it really just comes down to whether or not barnett can adjust to playing outside ... he is DEFINITELY not an ILB in a 3-4 but i think the writing on the wall is only his own. if he IS a football player then he deserves a spot on the field and will shine at 3-4. it's up to him, regardless...

[Partial]

The only way I see Barnett playing outside is if they go after Maulaluga

[RashanGary]

Barnett is just a tad small I guess. Maybe he can do it.

[mission]

i always picture lavon kirkland as the perfect run stuffing 3-4 ILB... that guy was listed at ~290 i think!

[Guiness]

I like Barnett (Samurai impression aside) but am skeptical about him in a 3-4. He doesn't shed blocks well, and will be exposed to a lot more of them in this system.

[rbaloha1]

Assuming Barnett returns to full strength he is most likely an olb due to his ability run and cover all over the field.

[ND72]

We have 3 LB's who can all play in the 3-4. Barnett, Hawk, & Bishop will be fine. I don't think Poop is athletic enough to play in it, but who knows. I'm not going to say anythign about any guy until I see them in the system. It's why we are all here talking about it, and not in the coaches offices on Lombardi Ave. We don't really know, and can only wait to find out. But I think Barnett & Hawk right now are the ILB in the 3-4, but that's just a guess. I think Hawk played ILB in OSU's hybrid 3-4, but was mostly viewed as an OLB.

[Deputy Nutz]

I was debating whether or not to get into these discussions about the switch to a 3-4 and the effect on the current players on the roster outside of McCarthy saying that guys like Kampman will have to make sum adjustments. The bottom line is that none of us know how Capers is planning on using his personnel that he currently has. Sure the base scheme will be 3-4, but outside of that who really knows. If you are looking at a traditional 3-4 that was run in the 1980s and early 1990s than most likely guys like Barnett would not make it as an inside linebacker. again the 3-4 used now asks outside linebackers, usually the strong side backer to play on the line of scrimmage over the tight end. Regardless hopefully McCarthy hired some one in Capers that stress flexibility.

[Waldo]

I was debating whether or not to get into these discussions about the switch to a 3-4 and the effect on the current players on the roster outside of McCarthy saying that guys like Kampman will have to make sum adjustments. The bottom line is that none of us know how Capers is planning on using his personnel that he currently has. Sure the base scheme will be 3-4, but outside of that who really knows. If you are looking at a traditional 3-4 that was run in the 1980s and early 1990s than most likely guys like Barnett would not make it as an inside linebacker. again the 3-4 used now asks outside linebackers, usually the strong side backer to play on the line of scrimmage over the tight end. Regardless hopefully McCarthy hired some one in Capers that stress flexibility.

Capers and Lebeau together developed the Steelers zone blitz 3-4, when Capers was the DC and Lebeau the secondary coach.

It is pretty safe to say that he will not run a traditional Parcells style 3-4.

[pbmax]

I was debating whether or not to get into these discussions about the switch to a 3-4 and the effect on the current players on the roster outside of McCarthy saying that guys like Kampman will have to make sum adjustments. The bottom line is that none of us know how Capers is planning on using his personnel that he currently has. Sure the base scheme will be 3-4, but outside of that who really knows. If you are looking at a traditional 3-4 that was run in the 1980s and early 1990s than most likely guys like Barnett would not make it as an inside linebacker. again the 3-4 used now asks outside linebackers, usually the strong side backer to play on the line of scrimmage over the tight end. Regardless hopefully McCarthy hired some one in Capers that stress flexibility.
We should put this in the logo at the top to replace the ice bag. Good post, all of it.

[Merlin]

Barnett will be fine, assuming he is healthy. I think many of you are much too quick to write him off.

Agreed. This is the same group that said Abdul Hodge was going to push him to the outside and eventually off the roster completely. That's how it played out right? Let's not forget that after 1 game at MLB, Hawk was far superior to Barnett, even though he was a non-factor in subsequent games and did not adequately lead the defense at the position. Not that he couldn't at some point but Barnett is the better player at that position like it or not.

[cpk1994]

I think the writing is on the wall. If they can't trade him, I think they'll cut him. I've really warmed up to Kamp as an OLB. I think he's an ideal rush LB.Most rediculous post of 2009. Why write Barnett off without one shred of evidence if he can play in the 3-4 or not? Barnett isn't going anywhere. He at least gets the opportunity to show whether he can do the job or not.

[BlueBrewer]

I think the writing is on the wall. If they can't trade him, I think they'll cut him. I've really warmed up to Kamp as an OLB. I think he's an ideal rush LB.

This might be the dumbest statement of the year!! It is still January though.

[run pMc]

Assuming he comes back from his injury, he'll be fine.

Don't you think the LB's are excited about getting to work with a guy like Capers that will set them loose on a QB? It seems like all Harrison does for PIT is blitz, and he's like 6-0, 240#. I think Barnett can do it. The point about Vilma is well made, however.

The DL is a concern...I don't think Jenkins is thrilled about the switch, and how Kampman does is anyone's guess. I don't think he can bulk up without it affecting him: I think he's better at 265 than when he was up at 285. I know this much: both those guys will give top effort.

Also not sure what this means for the secondary...I remember Peyton Manning whining because Ty Law and the NE CB's would mug his receivers, so maybe we'll see that. I can't help but think that Al's days are numbered.

How TT drafts will be really interesting. I think Rey M. from USC would be a beast 3-4 LB and will be there at #9.

I would hope Capers is smart and flexible enough to adapt his schemes to the talents of the roster.

Either way, get ready for a bumpy preseason while they figure it out.

[Zool]

Yeah... 4-3 linebackers rarely take on blockers... WTF are you talking about?

With that said, no, I don't think Barnett is a 3-4 backer. Same way a great 4-3 MLB in Vilma wasn't. Too small.

Very true. He looked completely average in the 3-4 middle. Barnett is good covering in space so I kinda hope he ends up outside.

[Pugger]

Capers said he is one who will fit his scheme to his players. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next several weeks as Dom is evaluating our guys. But the next thing we have to watch now is who MM and Dom get as assistants.

[Waldo]

Vilma's failure to transition from a 4-3 to a 3-4 had as much to do with his DC running a 2 gap 3-4 without a NT as does with anything about him physically.

Minus a stud NT, in a 2 gap 3-4 the ILB's get killed. That isn't the case with a 1 gap 3-4.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I'm in the wait and see camp. I disagree with the complete writing off of Barnett as that's foolish IMO. He's a good player and really did a good job when dealing with 4 DCs in his first 4 yrs in the league. He seems to bounce back from adversity well. Perhaps this new defense will raise the level of his game.

[Deputy Nutz]

Capers said he is one who will fit his scheme to his players. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next several weeks as Dom is evaluating our guys. But the next thing we have to watch now is who MM and Dom get as assistants.

Perfectly stated, only an idiot would run a scheme regardless if he had the players or not. That would be just the type of pig headed coach this franchise could not use at this point. I like the excitement with this hire, McCarthy sounded jazzed at his press conference, far from the lack of excitement that Bob Sanders brought. It is one thing to run a vanilla scheme but to coach with a lack of excitement and fire will get you fired, sure that scheme didn't change much from the one Jim Bates brought to Green Bay, but Bates was a ball of intensity, Bob Sanders was well, a really nice person.

[RashanGary]

I'd be happy to cut Barnett and offer the money we were going to pay him (along with a few extra million) to a guy like Suggs or another proven 3-4 backer.

[packerbacker1234]

Yeah... 4-3 linebackers rarely take on blockers... WTF are you talking about?

With that said, no, I don't think Barnett is a 3-4 backer. Same way a great 4-3 MLB in Vilma wasn't. Too small.

It's more or less utilizing the player you have's abiltiy. Barnett has good vision, good coverage ability, is a solid blitzer, and has speed. All that put together, they may utilize him in a coverage/blitzing/clean up role, and not so much ofa "run stuffing" blitz style.

That being said, I can't really put the jury out on how he'll do until we see it in action. At this point, I can't really judge the effectiveness. I'm sure Capers will make good use of him, though.

[Zool]

Just once I want to see Barnett knock a RB back when he hits him.

[BooHoo]

I'm in the wait and see camp. I disagree with the complete writing off of Barnett as that's foolish IMO. He's a good player and really did a good job when dealing with 4 DCs in his first 4 yrs in the league. He seems to bounce back from adversity well. Perhaps this new defense will raise the level of his game.

I'm with cheesehead. Barnett plays well enough to merit a starting position on the team. There are more pressing needs to fill than replacing Barnett.

[dahammer001]

I 'm so sick and tired of packer fans dissing Nick Barnett. He's to small,doesnt take on blocks, cannot diagnose plays,makes weak arm tackles and can't blitz. So I decided to do some research. I compared Nick barnett to the Raven and Steelers linebackers because everybody seem to think these are the premier 3 4 defenses in the league. Here is what I

found out
TOT SOLO AST SACK STF STFY FF BK INT YDS AVG LNG TD PD
Ray Lewis 6-1 250 13 Career 1625 1245 380 33.5 45 65 12 0 28 464 16.6 64 2 100
Bart Scott 6-2 240 7 Career 433 311 122 16.0 35 141 4 0 3 31 10.3 24 0 22
James Farrior 6-2 243 12 Career 1126 781 345 24.5 63 124 17 1 10 207 20.7 47 1 59
Larry Foote 6-1 239 7 Career 432 286 146 14.5 37 97 7 0 3 26 8.7 14 0 18
James Harrison 6-0 242 5 Career 309 229 80 28.5 36 102 14 1 3 78 26.0 33 0 12
Lamarr Woodley 6-2 265 2 Career 74 55 19 15.5 9 44 3 0 1 6 6.0 6 0 2
Lawrence Timmons 6-1 234 1 Career 78 54 24 5.0 3 10 1 0 1 89 89.0 89 0 3
Nick Barnett 6-2 236 6 Career 658 474 184 11.5 40 66 2 0 9 175 19.4 95 1 29
Barnett is equal to most of the linebackers in size and definitely superior in speed. Barnett came into the league running a 4.4 forty,as did Ray Lewis thirteen years ago. Barnett is third on the list in tackles but remember Lewis and Farrior have been playing for 13 and 12 years respectively,which is twice as long as Barnett. Barnett is third in ints with 9 for his career, keep in mind Lewis and Farrior has played twice as long, Barnett has the longest int return for 95 yards against the bears. Barnett ranks low in career sacks because the packers rarely blitz their linebackers.
Barnett cannot be compared to Ray lewis because he is a future hall of famer,but everybody else is debatable. I think Barnett is better than some of you think.

Here's what funny, AJ hawk seem to get pass from most of packer fanbase. In my humble opinion Hawk is bum.That's who the packer nation need to be calling out. Remember Schegel,Hawk,and Carpenter. Schegel is out of football,Carpenter is bum in Dallas playing on special teams,and hawk has
underacieved in Green Bay.Everybody talked about how great buckeye linebackers were 3 years ago I forgot to mention Vernon Gholston with the Jets,and Laurenitis scares the hell out of me. You can keep your buckeye linebackers Because most of them are garbage. Back to Barnett, did you ever wonder if coaching was a contibuting factor in his production?

[Bossman641]

I agree with you for the most part. I like Hawk and am a fan of his, but it is ridiculous to see how Packer fans keep putting Barnett while Hawk has been getting somewhat of a pass.

When Barnett went down, there was much rejoicing that finally we would see what a real LB could do at MLB. Hawk had one good game there and then disappeared for the rest of the year. I personally think Hawk was injured all year, but the fact remains that once Barnett went down the defense's performance went down considerably.

Hopefully Barnett and Hawk will both be studs in the 3-4.

[Gunakor]

I 'm so sick and tired of packer fans dissing Nick Barnett. He's to small,doesnt take on blocks, cannot diagnose plays,makes weak arm tackles and can't blitz. So I decided to do some research. I compared Nick barnett to the Raven and Steelers linebackers because everybody seem to think these are the premier 3 4 defenses in the league. Here is what I

found out
TOT SOLO AST SACK STF STFY FF BK INT YDS AVG LNG TD PD
Ray Lewis 6-1 250 13 Career 1625 1245 380 33.5 45 65 12 0 28 464 16.6 64 2 100
Bart Scott 6-2 240 7 Career 433 311 122 16.0 35 141 4 0 3 31 10.3 24 0 22
James Farrior 6-2 243 12 Career 1126 781 345 24.5 63 124 17 1 10 207 20.7 47 1 59
Larry Foote 6-1 239 7 Career 432 286 146 14.5 37 97 7 0 3 26 8.7 14 0 18
James Harrison 6-0 242 5 Career 309 229 80 28.5 36 102 14 1 3 78 26.0 33 0 12
Lamarr Woodley 6-2 265 2 Career 74 55 19 15.5 9 44 3 0 1 6 6.0 6 0 2
Lawrence Timmons 6-1 234 1 Career 78 54 24 5.0 3 10 1 0 1 89 89.0 89 0 3
Nick Barnett 6-2 236 6 Career 658 474 184 11.5 40 66 2 0 9 175 19.4 95 1 29
Barnett is equal to most of the linebackers in size and definitely superior in speed. Barnett came into the league running a 4.4 forty,as did Ray Lewis thirteen years ago. Barnett is third on the list in tackles but remember Lewis and Farrior have been playing for 13 and 12 years respectively,which is twice as long as Barnett. Barnett is third in ints with 9 for his career, keep in mind Lewis and Farrior has played twice as long, Barnett has the longest int return for 95 yards against the bears. Barnett ranks low in career sacks because the packers rarely blitz their linebackers.
Barnett cannot be compared to Ray lewis because he is a future hall of famer,but everybody else is debatable. I think Barnett is better than some of you think.

Here's what funny, AJ hawk seem to get pass from most of packer fanbase. In my humble opinion Hawk is bum.That's who the packer nation need to be calling out. Remember Schegel,Hawk,and Carpenter. Schegel is out of football,Carpenter is bum in Dallas playing on special teams,and hawk has
underacieved in Green Bay.Everybody talked about how great buckeye linebackers were 3 years ago I forgot to mention Vernon Gholston with the Jets,and Laurenitis scares the hell out of me. You can keep your buckeye linebackers Because most of them are garbage. Back to Barnett, did you ever wonder if coaching was a contibuting factor in his production?

Sanders' scheme was for the OLB's to generally eat up blocks so that Barnett could make plays, which inflates his number of tackles. In a new scheme, I doubt he's going to rack up 150 tackles on the season. Yeah, I think coaching was a contributing factor in his production, but I think for him it was a positive contribution.

[mraynrand]

I'm mostly concerned that Barnett will be pressured to come back by the start of the season. He won't get back to full strength until really 2010; if everything goes well, he could be close to normal by mid 2009. For a guy who relies so much on his speed, he could look bad at the start of next season. I hope they are being realistic and cautious with his rehabilitation. I think he's a very good LB, and his loss last season showed how valuable he is. Plus, he's learned - what - at least 3 or 4 different defensive schemes, so what challenge will it be l for Barnett to learn yet another system. Best of luck to him - I hope to see him middle of next season.

[packerbacker1234]

I'm mostly concerned that Barnett will be pressured to come back by the start of the season. He won't get back to full strength until really 2010; if everything goes well, he could be close to normal by mid 2009. For a guy who relies so much on his speed, he could look bad at the start of next season. I hope they are being realistic and cautious with his rehabilitation. I think he's a very good LB, and his loss last season showed how valuable he is. Plus, he's learned - what - at least 3 or 4 different defensive schemes, so what challenge will it be l for Barnett to learn yet another system. Best of luck to him - I hope to see him middle of next season.

Uh, you must know nothing about his injury then. He'll be medically cleared to start practicing in 2 months time. His rehab has gone fine.

Of course, we're all doctors right? I bet any money he is back in camp 100%.

The bigger question we should be talking about isn't how to use barnett (for all the knocks on why he wont fit as a ILB, it seems many other 3-4 ILB are very similar to him), but what to do with Kampman. Do you keep in in a three point stance at DE, and hope when needed he can fill a gap? Or, do you try and move him to OLB, where on some situations he may not even be on the field?

It'll be interesting there, because Kampman is the one player on the entire defense I can safely say is truely a 4-3 player. I personally hope Dom keeps him at DE, but we'll see.

[mraynrand]

I'm mostly concerned that Barnett will be pressured to come back by the start of the season. He won't get back to full strength until really 2010; if everything goes well, he could be close to normal by mid 2009. For a guy who relies so much on his speed, he could look bad at the start of next season. I hope they are being realistic and cautious with his rehabilitation. I think he's a very good LB, and his loss last season showed how valuable he is. Plus, he's learned - what - at least 3 or 4 different defensive schemes, so what challenge will it be l for Barnett to learn yet another system. Best of luck to him - I hope to see him middle of next season.

Uh, you must know nothing about his injury then. He'll be medically cleared to start practicing in 2 months time. His rehab has gone fine.

Of course, we're all doctors right? I bet any money he is back in camp 100%.

The bigger question we should be talking about isn't how to use barnett (for all the knocks on why he wont fit as a ILB, it seems many other 3-4 ILB are very similar to him), but what to do with Kampman. Do you keep in in a three point stance at DE, and hope when needed he can fill a gap? Or, do you try and move him to OLB, where on some situations he may not even be on the field?

It'll be interesting there, because Kampman is the one player on the entire defense I can safely say is truely a 4-3 player. I personally hope Dom keeps him at DE, but we'll see.

I was of the impression it was a complete tear and they did an osteochondral autograft transplantation. If it was a partial tear, the outcome would be a lot different. ACL tears take time for full recovery, even if the guy can run around looking pretty normal in 9 months.

[Lurker64]

I was of the impression it was a complete tear and they did an osteochondral autograft transplantation. If it was a partial tear, the outcome would be a lot different. ACL tears take time for full recovery, even if the guy can run around looking pretty normal in 9 months.

I think that Barnett will definitely be cleared to run, hit, and play football on his knee by the start of the season (camp probably). But it will take some time for Barnett to be up to full speed (he'll probably favor the healthy knee, and won't have the same burst.)

Still, it's safe to predict that Barnett will be one of the starting ILBs come week 1.

[digitaldean]

I think Barnett AND Hawk can flourish in 3-4 if the right additions are brought onto the squad next year.

Poppinga is one I'd wish they'd cut loose. His instinct level is zilch compared to similarly priced LBs in the league.