Any relevance from Packers Blog

[rbaloha1]

Comments from a senior bowl blog.

Any relevance? Sour grapes? A prediction?

# One high-ranking Minnesota Vikings official raised an eyebrow and then smiled widely. "Oh really?" he said. When told that Mike McCarthy said the Packers have the pieces to run the 3-4, his smile got wider.
# One person who used to work with McCarthy laughed out loud when told of the 3-4/pieces thing.
# The opinion on Capers runs the gamut. Guys who have worked with him swear by his preparation and underrated intensity. One long-time offensive assistant that never coached with him said he thought Capers was "a little overrated."

Your comments Packer Nation.

[red]

i don't think m3 would come out and say that they don't have the players to run it

i think pretty much everyone knows that we'll need to add players and cut others because of this move

which ones, is the big question

[Deputy Nutz]

Currently without any free agents signed or draft picks selected the Packers in my opinion the Packers front seven in their base defense would look like this

NT: Pickett
DE: Jenkins
DE: Jolly

Rush LB: Kampman
OLB: Poppinga
MLB: Hawk
MLB: Barnett

So I really don't know if the Packers have the right personnel currently, I do know they didn"t have the right personnel to run a 4-3 under Sanders.

[RashanGary]

That's pretty much how I see it too, Nutz. Maybe Jeremy Thompson or Jason Hunter would play OLB over Poppinga. Maybe Bishop plays over Barnett.

[Deputy Nutz]

Jason Hunter might actually be a damn good pass rusher from the outside, he sure wasn't much of anything as a hand down end. But he is athletic and has some speed and in pre season had a knack for getting after the passer. He is one of the guys that might not be a starter but might fit a 3-4 much better than in a 4-3, he might have a niche in the 3-4 that allows him to play 15 plays a game, rather than just special teams because he can't play end in a 4-3.

Bishop the same thing, he might not be a starter, but he certainly could contribute more to the defense in a 3-4 than in a 4-3 as an mlb.

[vince]

Currently without any free agents signed or draft picks selected the Packers in my opinion the Packers front seven in their base defense would look like this

NT: Pickett
DE: Jenkins
DE: Jolly

Rush LB: Kampman
OLB: Poppinga
MLB: Hawk
MLB: Barnett

So I really don't know if the Packers have the right personnel currently, I do know they didn"t have the right personnel to run a 4-3 under Sanders.

Here's my take:

Jolly could well be watching the first 4 games on TV next season due to his cough medicine binge. I also think Harrell - if healthy (a big if I know) can as stout and quicker than Jolly anyway. I don't like Barnett on the inside for a few reasons, not the least of which is his knee, which he could favor for a good part of next year. I think Bishop and Lansanah could benefit with more playing time. At NT, Cole has the size, but he isn't consistently strong enough against the run. I think he's gone.

There are probably one too many SOLB's, one too many NT's, and one too few DE's on my list for a final 53-man roster, and then you have to look at FA and the draft for additonal guys. If there is a good 3-4 DE in the free agency, that's a weak area with one body too few adn Harrell, Malone and maybe Jolly who all have question marks on their backs. Popp is probably better at OLB, but there aren't enough spots. Something's gotta give.

Current personnel:

SOLB - Kampman, Thompson, Hunter
DE - Harrell, Malone
NT - Pickett, Jolly, Bledsoe
DE - Jenkins
WOLB - Chillar, Barnett
ILB - Hawk, Poppinga
ILB - Bishop, Lansanah

[HarveyWallbangers]

Jason Hunter might actually be a damn good pass rusher from the outside

I've been on the Hunter bandwagon since the switch was announced. 6'4" 270 (260 is probably his ideal weight--which is perfect) who ran 4.5 40 coming out of college. He seems made for that spot. Thompson might be able to fit there also--although he's not quite as athletic as Hunter.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'd love to see this:

DE - TYSON JACKSON, Harrell
NT - Pickett, B.J. RAJI
DE - Jenkins, Jolly
SOLB - Kampman, Hunter, Thompson
ILB - Hawk, Poppinga
ILB - BART SCOTT, Bishop
WOLB - Barnett, Chillar

[RashanGary]

How bout this. . .

Jason Hunter/Brady Poppinga
Bart Scott FA/Chillar
AJ Hawk/Bishop
Aaron Kampman/Jeremy Thompson

Jenkins/Harrell
Pickett/Raji 1st round
Jerry Peria 2nd round/Jolly

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

OLB- SUGGS (Thompson)
ILB - Maualuga (frist round pick) (Bishop)
ILB - Hawk
OLB -Kampman (Popp/Hunter)


Jenkins (draft pick)

Pickett (draft pick)

Harrell (draft pick)

Cuts/Trades
Barnett
Chillar
Jolly


Then sign Sean Jones (I really like this guy).

Harris (Williams)
Woodson (Lee/Blackman)

Collins (Rouse)
Jones (Bigby)



Offense tackle will have to wait. Clifton plays out his last year. Or you could re-sign Tauscher and play Collegde at LT thus cutting Clifton.

[vince]

I'd love to see this:

DE - TYSON JACKSON, Harrell
NT - Pickett, B.J. RAJI
DE - Jenkins, Jolly
SOLB - Kampman, Hunter, Thompson
ILB - Hawk, Poppinga
ILB - BART SCOTT, Bishop
WOLB - Barnett, Chillar
That'd be killer.


How bout this. . .

Jason Hunter/Brady Poppinga
Bart Scott FA/Chillar
AJ Hawk/Bishop
Aaron Kampman/Jeremy Thompson

Jenkins/Harrell
Pickett/Raji 1st round
Jerry Peria 2nd round/Jolly
That too, is interesting, although I think Chillar is better suited for the outside, and the combination of Hunter and Kamp on the outside might make OCs' and QBs' eyes light up audibling into easy RB/TE mismatches in the passing game. In my opinion, you need someone with versatile skills like Chillar/Barnett at one of the outside spots, who can rush, cover and defend the run - to match up effectively.


OLB- SUGGS (Thompson)
ILB - Maualuga (frist round pick) (Bishop)
ILB - Hawk
OLB -Kampman (Popp/Hunter)


Jenkins (draft pick)

Pickett (draft pick)

Harrell (draft pick)

Cuts/Trades
Barnett
Chillar
Jolly That's some serious housecleaning. Because of their specific circumstances, neither Barnett or Jolly would probably fetch as much value as you'd like to get in trade. Chillar is more valuable on your team than you could get for him in trade too IMO. It's hard to see these guys getting cut vs. a low-round draft pick or a couple of the guys listed.

Given Thompson's approach to free agency, and the inhouse guys that need to be re-upped, I just don't see a huge offer for a guy like Suggs or Peppers. A guy like Bart Scott makes a lot more sense to me. Clearly, getting to the QB is a priority, but I think the flexibility of the 3-4 scheme will have a strong impact on that with the pass-rushing talent already in place. Rather than rushing 4 guys where the offense fully knows where they're coming from, a lot more stunting and surprises can be thrown in - without sacrificing fundamental containment requirements and coverages.

Here's an article regarding the fundamental advantages of a 3-4 vs. 4-3 when it comes to stunting and blitzing. It's worth a read at this point in the evolutions of the Packers new scheme.

Effectiveness of 3-4 vs. 4-3 is found in the numbers (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80d6974b&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true)

[packrulz]

Here's a look at the current roster:
Active Roster
No. Name Pos. Ht Wt Age Exp. College Acquired
2 Mason Crosby K 6-1 207 24 2 Colorado D6c-07
7 Jeremy Kapinos P 6-1 230 24 1 Penn State FA-08
10 Matt Flynn QB 6-2 222 23 R Louisiana State D7a-08
11 Brian Brohm QB 6-3 223 23 R Louisville D2b-08
12 Aaron Rodgers QB 6-2 220 25 4 California D1-05
21 Charles Woodson CB 6-1 202 32 11 Michigan UFA-06 (Oak.)
24 Jarrett Bush CB 6-0 200 24 3 Utah State W-06 (Car)
25 Ryan Grant RB 6-1 226 26 2 Notre Dame T-07 (NYG)
26 Charlie Peprah S 5-11 203 25 3 Alabama W-06 (NYG)
27 Will Blackmon CB 6-0 206 24 3 Boston College D4b-06
30 John Kuhn FB 6-0 259 26 3 Shippensburg W-07 (Pit)
31 Al Harris CB 6-1 190 34 11 Texas A&M-Kingsville T-03 (Phil)
32 Brandon Jackson RB 5-10 220 23 2 Nebraska D2-07
35 Korey Hall FB 6-0 243 25 2 Boise State D6a-07
36 Nick Collins S 5-11 207 25 4 Bethune-Cookman D2a-05
37 Aaron Rouse S 6-4 223 25 2 Virginia Tech D3b-07
38 Tramon Williams CB 5-11 191 25 2 Louisiana Tech FA-06
40 Joe Porter CB 5-10 203 23 1 Rutgers FA-07
42 DeShawn Wynn RB 5-10 238 25 2 Florida D7a-07
50 A.J. Hawk LB 6-1 248 25 3 Ohio State D1-06
51 Brady Poppinga LB 6-3 247 29 4 Brigham Young D4b-05
53 Spencer Havner LB 6-3 248 25 1 UCLA FA-08
54 Brandon Chillar LB 6-3 243 26 5 UCLA UFA-08 (StL)
55 Desmond Bishop LB 6-2 238 24 2 California D6b-07
57 Jason Hunter DE 6-4 271 25 3 Appalachian State FA-06
58 Danny Lansanah LB 6-1 248 23 R Connecticut FA-08
61 Brett Goode LS 6-1 261 24 1 Arkansas FA-08
63 Scott Wells C 6-2 303 28 5 Tennessee FA-04 (D7-04)
67 Nevin McCaskill G 6-4 315 25 1 Hampton FA-08
68 Breno Giacomini T 6-7 311 23 R Louisville D5-08
69 Anthony Toribio DT 6-1 304 23 R Carson-Newman FA-08
71 Josh Sitton G 6-3 317 22 R Central Florida D4b-08
72 Jason Spitz G/C 6-3 302 26 3 Louisville D3b-06
73 Daryn Colledge G/T 6-4 308 26 3 Boise State D2a-06
74 Aaron Kampman DE 6-4 265 29 7 Iowa D5a-02
75 Tony Moll T 6-5 306 25 3 Nevada D5b-06
76 Chad Clifton T 6-5 320 32 9 Tennessee D2-00
78 Allen Barbre G 6-4 305 24 2 Missouri Southern State D4-07
79 Ryan Pickett DT 6-2 330 29 8 Ohio State UFA-06 (StL)
80 Donald Driver WR 6-0 194 33 10 Alcorn State D7b-99
82 Ruvell Martin WR 6-4 220 26 3 Saginaw Valley State FA-06
84 Tory Humphrey TE 6-2 255 26 3 Central Michigan FA-05
85 Greg Jennings WR 5-11 198 25 3 Western Michigan D2b-06
86 Donald Lee TE 6-4 248 28 6 Mississippi State FA-05
87 Jordy Nelson WR 6-3 217 23 R Kansas State D2a-08
88 Jermichael Finley TE 6-5 247 21 R Texas D3-08
89 James Jones WR 6-1 218 24 2 San Jose State D3a-07
90 Colin Cole DT 6-1 330 28 4 Iowa FA-04
91 Justin Harrell DT 6-4 320 24 2 Tennessee D1-07
96 Michael Montgomery DE 6-5 273 25 4 Texas A&M D6a-05
97 Johnny Jolly DT 6-3 320 25 3 Texas A&M D6a-06
98 Alfred Malone DT 6-4 312 26 1 Troy FA-07
99 Jeremy Thompson DE 6-4 270 23 R Wake Forest D4a-08

Injured Reserve
No. Name Pos. Ht Wt Age Exp. College Injury Date On
19 Shaun Bodiford WR 5-11 196 26 3 Portland State Back 07/28
20 Atari Bigby S 5-11 213 27 3 Central Florida Shoulder 12/18
22 Pat Lee CB 6-0 194 24 R Auburn Knee 12/05
28 Kregg Lumpkin RB 5-11 228 24 R Georgia Hamstring 10/11
44 Evan Moore TE 6-6 247 24 R Stanford Knee 08/19
46 J.J. Jansen LS 6-2 256 23 R Notre Dame Knee 08/31
56 Nick Barnett LB 6-2 236 27 6 Oregon State Knee 12/01
65 Mark Tauscher T 6-3 316 31 9 Wisconsin Knee 12/11
77 Cullen Jenkins DE 6-2 305 28 5 Central Michigan Chest 10/01
93 Kenny Pettway DE 6-3 248 26 3 Grambling State Knee 12/01

Reserve/Future
No. Name Pos. Ht Wt Age Exp. College
8 Durant Brooks P 6-0 204 23 R Georgia Tech
13 Jake Allen WR 6-4 196 24 R Mississippi College
16 Brett Swain WR 6-0 203 23 R San Diego State
18 Lorne Sam WR 6-3 220 24 R Texas-El Paso
41 Joshua Abrams CB 5-11 196 23 R Ohio
64 Brennen Carvalho C 6-1 300 22 R Portland State
95 Fred Bledsoe DT 6-3 329 22 R Arkansas
Kampman, Hunter, Thompson, and the other DE's could easily gain 10 lbs of muscle to play DE. Jenkins is already there. Jolly, Harrell, Cole, Malone are already close to Pickett in size so they need to work on their strength to play NT. DB's should be ok since they'll be playing a lot of zone. The problem I see is at LB, Hawk has to play inside, he can't cover, Chilliar can cover pretty good, Poppy is ok, but Barnett is short and small, he really doesn't fit the 3-4, maybe they can trade him?

[packerbacker1234]

Guys: I doubt Kampy, or any DE for that matter, is going to be playing OLB.

Why? It's got nothing to do with pash rush, it as to do with stopping the run, and playing zone/man coverage. Yeah, it's great they can pash rush, but they still have to do the toher things LB's do, because you don't blitz the outside LB's every damn down. I still think it will go:

OLB:
Chillar
Popinga

ILB
Hawk
Barnett

I doubt seriously he's moving our best pash rushing LINEMEN out of there. And, ti's not like Kampy hasn't shown the ability to stuff holes. I also think CULLEN JENKINS is going to be the other DE, with picket rotating with jolly in the middle.

[vince]

Kampman, Hunter, Thompson, and the other DE's could easily gain 10 lbs of muscle to play DE. Jenkins is already there. Jolly, Harrell, Cole, Malone are already close to Pickett in size so they need to work on their strength to play NT. DB's should be ok since they'll be playing a lot of zone. The problem I see is at LB, Hawk has to play inside, he can't cover, Chilliar can cover pretty good, Poppy is ok, but Barnett is short and small, he really doesn't fit the 3-4, maybe they can trade him?
More appropriate to look at than their measurables, IMO, is how they play.
If you can't stop the run first, then nothing works at all.

None of Hunter, Thompson or Montgomery, IMO are close to stout enough against the run to play DE in the 3-4. Kampman yes, but I think he has the skills to play outside on early downs and might move down in passing situations. Also, you put Kampman at DE on an every down basis, and he wears down even quicker than he has the last couple years.

Likewise, none of Harrell, Cole or Malone are stout enough against the run to stuff double teams and do what's necessary to play NT in the 3-4. Jolly maybe, but he's not a given. You can pack 10 pounds on all of them, and I don't think that changes.

Barnett, when he demonstrates that he is recovered from his knee injury, has the speed and quickness to rush and/or cover, and can tackle to play on the outside. I don't think he is stout enough to shed blocks and attack the line of scrimmage from the inside to adequately stop the power running game.

[Fritz]

Here's what I think:

I think, first, given Gregg Williams's statement that Green Bay offered him the coordinator's job, it seems clear that McCarthy's greatest priority was getting a defensive coordinator who had both experience as a coordinator and a good reputation. Those qualities seem to have trumped all others - an up-and-comer, the advantage of youth, it has to be a guy who uses___(fill in the blank) defensive scheme.

So it seems not to have mattered much to MM whether the scheme was 3-4 or 4-3. He just wanted someone with an excellent reputation (of the four we know he interviewed, Capers and Williams had the highest reputations) and experience as a coordinator.

Secondly, those people who call McCarthy into question because Williams turned down the job are in my estimation way, way overboard. Why is it so difficult to accept the possibility that a guy with a family might ask his family where they'd like to be? If his youngest son is a hot prospect as one article suggested, it would make sense to live and go to college in the south. Why do people think southern schools produce so many high-ranking football teams so consistently? The weather is warmer, you can play more throughout the year. So I wish people would give it up and stop attacking Williams, McCarthy, Thompson, whoever. Maybe Williams's stated reason for going to New Orleans is simply the truth.

Third, after all the talk about defensive linemen who might now be linebackers in a 3-4 - Jason Hunter, Kampman, Jeremy Thompson - my belief is not that the Packers need to draft or sign a bunch of linebackers - they appear to have a whole boatload suddenly if the above-named are in fact about to become linebackers. Kampman, Hunter, Thompson, Lansanah, Bishop, Chillar, Poppinga, Barnett, Hawk. That's eight. My belief is that the Packers are in dire need of big defensive linemen. A nose tackle or two to share time with Pickett, and a couple of stout defensive ends. And given those numbers of potential linebackers, maybe the Pack will ask Kampman to pack on a few pounds and stay at DE.

And finally, is Mike Montgomery just going to be history very soon? I don't know that I've seen his name come up once on any thread. Even Colin Cole and Justin Harrell get mentioned more than he does.

[Fritz]

Here's what I think:

I think, first, given Gregg Williams's statement that Green Bay offered him the coordinator's job, it seems clear that McCarthy's greatest priority was getting a defensive coordinator who had both experience as a coordinator and a good reputation. Those qualities seem to have trumped all others - an up-and-comer, the advantage of youth, it has to be a guy who uses___(fill in the blank) defensive scheme.

So it seems not to have mattered much to MM whether the scheme was 3-4 or 4-3. He just wanted someone with an excellent reputation (of the four we know he interviewed, Capers and Williams had the highest reputations) and experience as a coordinator.

Secondly, those people who call McCarthy into question because Williams turned down the job are in my estimation way, way overboard. Why is it so difficult to accept the possibility that a guy with a family might ask his family where they'd like to be? If his youngest son is a hot prospect as one article suggested, it would make sense to live and go to college in the south. Why do people think southern schools produce so many high-ranking football teams so consistently? The weather is warmer, you can play more throughout the year. So I wish people would give it up and stop attacking Williams, McCarthy, Thompson, whoever. Maybe Williams's stated reason for going to New Orleans is simply the truth.

Third, after all the talk about defensive linemen who might now be linebackers in a 3-4 - Jason Hunter, Kampman, Jeremy Thompson - my belief is not that the Packers need to draft or sign a bunch of linebackers - they appear to have a whole boatload suddenly if the above-named are in fact about to become linebackers. Kampman, Hunter, Thompson, Lansanah, Bishop, Chillar, Poppinga, Barnett, Hawk. That's eight. My belief is that the Packers are in dire need of big defensive linemen. A nose tackle or two to share time with Pickett, and a couple of stout defensive ends. And given those numbers of potential linebackers, maybe the Pack will ask Kampman to pack on a few pounds and stay at DE.

And finally, is Mike Montgomery just going to be history very soon? I don't know that I've seen his name come up once on any thread. Even Colin Cole and Justin Harrell get mentioned more than he does.

Uh, that's nine. Oops.

[vince]

I missed mentioning Montgomery Fritz, but yes, my opinion is that he's in no man's land. Maybe he can be a passing down specialist at DE, but I think you have better available for that. I think he'd get run over at DE and I don't see him having the skills to play OLB. Gone.

[Fritz]

I missed mentioning Montgomery Fritz, but yes, my opinion is that he's in no man's land. Maybe he can be a passing down specialist at DE, but I think you have better available for that. I think he'd get run over at DE and I don't see him having the skills to play OLB. Gone.

Mikey, we hardly knew ye. And neither did opposing quarterbacks.

[texaspackerbacker]

A lot more wrong than right in the posts above.

First of all, I wouldn't automatically believe McCarthy offered the job to Williams just because Williams says so. That's the kind of self-serving thing you'd expect someone to say. I think McCarthy clearly wanted a 3-4 guy.

As for the lineup, you guys, in many cases, deviated far from the obvious.

A large part of the reason for going 3-4 IMO was the presence of two probably outstanding ILBs--Barnett and Hawk (in that order). I see some of the same old crap of disrespecting Barnett in this thread. That's just wrong. Hawk would seem clearly to be more of an ILB/MLB in any scheme than OLB. Bishop should be a more than adequate backup.

All the talk about weakness, inadequacy of personnel, etc. is just wrong. We have plenty of depth all around, partly due to injuries last season. I think Kampman will stay at DE, although I think he could handle OLB also. Another often disrespected--unjustifiably IMO--is Montgomery, who I see as backing up Kampman at DE. Jenkins should thrive in the 3-4. I see Jolly as backing him up with Harrell more likely to back up Pickett in the middle. Cole is another guy who played better than many give him credit for. I think he could be a decent backup at NT or even DE in run situations.

At OLB, Chillar was primarily a blitz LB with the Rams, and he played decent coverage with the Packers. Popinga would seem to be better suited for the 3-4 also, as he played DE occasionally in passing situations last year and improved to some extent (less than I thought he would) in coverage. Thompson, I believe, might have been an early tip-off when he was drafted, that they wanted to go 3-4. He seems to have the makings of a proto-type 3-4 OLB. Hunter, as was said, didn't quite have the strength to play 4-3 DE, but should also be ideal in the 3-4.

I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't get any immediate contributors from the draft or free agency, and were still very solid and deep in the front seven. And, of course, few teams have the quality and quantity the Packers have at DB.

The detractors can whine all they want about how bad our personnel is, but the fact is, this team was solid on D in '07. It is more solid now. They could have handled any scheme personnel-wise. I'm reasonably satisfied that McCarthy chose the 3-4, though, as long as they don't get too carried away with blitzing, and as long as they stick with mostly man coverage. Capers talked about disguising coverages; That's fine for a change of pace too.

Barring injuries, I'm expecting great D this season to go along with outstanding offense.

Now, I suppose we will hear a lot of crap about why the doom and gloom types think it won't happen that way. Whatever.

[Gunakor]

Agree 100% about Barnett. He is too valuable to this team to not find a way to get him into the starting lineup. He's the leader of that defense, and the defensive meltdown of '08 immediately following his injury proves that IMO. Barnett's a keeper, though I could easily see Capers moving him outside in a 3-4. He's probably better off there than as a ILB in a 3-4.

That said, I'd imagine TT would make an offer to at least one of Baltimore's LB's that are likely to hit the market. They have 3 of them whose contracts expire at the end of this season, and I don't think they have the cap space to resign all 3 of them. If they resign Lewis and Suggs, then I'd definitely make a play at Bart Scott. I think they might just decide to let Ray Lewis go and hold onto Scott and Suggs, and I'd make an offer to Lewis in a heartbeat. Lewis is on the decline at this point, but that fiery attitude and unmatched leadership ability he would bring would be well worth the money it takes to get him.

And I am less convinced about Pickett as a NT than most here. But I don't see any good NT's hitting the market, so IMO #9 has to be used on a young physical beast to at least spell him this year and eventually take over as the full time starter. Move up if you have to. Whatever it takes, because I am convinced beyond a doubt that Pickett will not last a full season taking that kind of punishment given his injury history. That IMO has to be the #1 priority for TT this offseason if we are going to make a successful transition this year.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Whatever it takes, because I am convinced beyond a doubt that Pickett will not last a full season taking that kind of punishment given his injury history.

I could see you arguing based on his age, but the dude has been a virtual iron man in recent years. He's missed seven games in eight seasons, and five of those games came in his rookie year. He's played all 16 games in six of his last seven seasons. He missed two games in the other season.

[Gunakor]

Whatever it takes, because I am convinced beyond a doubt that Pickett will not last a full season taking that kind of punishment given his injury history.

I could see you arguing based on his age, but the dude has been a virtual iron man in recent years. He's missed seven games in eight seasons, and five of those games came in his rookie year. He's played all 16 games in six of his last seven seasons. He missed two games in the other season.

He's a tough guy, but that doesn't mean he isn't hurting. He played most of last season with a nagging hip injury, and wouldn't have lasted as long as he did if he were playing the nose. That's a whole 'nother ballgame, and he's going to get hammered every snap. He won't last. Guaranteed.

[pbmax]

I don't think you are going to see Kampman and Poppinga manning the outside together. That is too big and too immobile for two spots. If we play with a weak side, I think its more likely to be Barnett or Chillar at the WOLB.

About the Blog:

Vikings guy has a professional interest in snickering at the Packers, I take this with a grain of salt as he may not have seen a 3-4 since he was in middle school. And everyone not associated with the team and not a defensive/personnel savant is going to mostly remember last season's results and likely predict that the Packers have very little on the D side for any scheme.

Randy Mueller is not the Ron Wolf of his generation, so I discount by that immediately. The 3-4 defense he built for Saban and Capers stunk out loud, so exactly what experience is he drawing on? Perhaps he ought to rethink his approach?

But the oddest point was the comment that said opinion on Capers ran the gamut. Apparently the gamut in this case is pretty limited. The positive comment was glowing, the negative comment was from an offensive assistant who said he thought "he was a little overrated". If that's the worst thing Bedard can find, we seem to have done well by reputation.

[pbmax]

Whatever it takes, because I am convinced beyond a doubt that Pickett will not last a full season taking that kind of punishment given his injury history.

I could see you arguing based on his age, but the dude has been a virtual iron man in recent years. He's missed seven games in eight seasons, and five of those games came in his rookie year. He's played all 16 games in six of his last seven seasons. He missed two games in the other season.
He will need relief, but he also had an arm injury that seemed to hamper him.

[Waldo]

Whatever it takes, because I am convinced beyond a doubt that Pickett will not last a full season taking that kind of punishment given his injury history.

I could see you arguing based on his age, but the dude has been a virtual iron man in recent years. He's missed seven games in eight seasons, and five of those games came in his rookie year. He's played all 16 games in six of his last seven seasons. He missed two games in the other season.

He's a tough guy, but that doesn't mean he isn't hurting. He played most of last season with a nagging hip injury, and wouldn't have lasted as long as he did if he were playing the nose. That's a whole 'nother ballgame, and he's going to get hammered every snap. He won't last. Guaranteed.

The difference between a 1 gap 3-4 NT and a 1 tech DT is virtually negligible. After the initial step a 1 gap 3-4 NT and a 1 tech DT are in the same location.

Capers isn't installing a 2 gap system like NE runs. Pickett will play in the gap between the C and G, same as always. IMO Pickett is better than half the 3-4 NT's in the NFL anyway.

[Gunakor]

Whatever it takes, because I am convinced beyond a doubt that Pickett will not last a full season taking that kind of punishment given his injury history.

I could see you arguing based on his age, but the dude has been a virtual iron man in recent years. He's missed seven games in eight seasons, and five of those games came in his rookie year. He's played all 16 games in six of his last seven seasons. He missed two games in the other season.

He's a tough guy, but that doesn't mean he isn't hurting. He played most of last season with a nagging hip injury, and wouldn't have lasted as long as he did if he were playing the nose. That's a whole 'nother ballgame, and he's going to get hammered every snap. He won't last. Guaranteed.

The difference between a 1 gap 3-4 NT and a 1 tech DT is virtually negligible. After the initial step a 1 gap 3-4 NT and a 1 tech DT are in the same location.

Capers isn't installing a 2 gap system like NE runs. Pickett will play in the gap between the C and G, same as always. IMO Pickett is better than half the 3-4 NT's in the NFL anyway.

That would be to Pickett's benefit. I was under the assumption that Capers preferred a 2 gap system. Even still, he's going to need someone to spell him from time to time. Harrell won't get it done, and with Jolly likely playing end in a 3-4 we need to bring someone new in regardless.

[pbmax]

Capers participated/ran 2-gap in New Orleans and Pittsburgh early with the Nose on the Center. But I don't remember what it was in Carolina or Jacksonville.

And even if Pickett is aligned off-center, he may still be responsible for controlling two gaps before trying to penetrate.

[ND72]

I only got so far, and started noticing how everyone had Barnett not on the roster. I think it's hilarious. Our best athlete at LB, and everyone is ready to cut him before we even see what Capers does with him. good god people, shut up and wait to see what we do or how capers does it before you drop the man.

[Waldo]

The Packers have enough time and a baseline of talent to make this switch very easily. The 3-4 that Capers runs is not a two-gap 3-4 and uses quickness and movement of the defensive line to make plays. Ryan Pickett would be the perfect nose tackle in this scheme and they have plenty of 3-4 ends to make this work. The nose is never in a two-gap mode, he can swing from A gap to A gap in the same fashion he did when Pickett played in the 4-3. Quickness is the key for this to work and the Packers, once they get healthy, will be able to fit the pieces into the scheme. They will need more outside backers because they will keep Hawk and Barnett inside. But time is on their side and they can find the pieces to make this work. The can also use the Steelers to study and learn from since the Steelers, under Mike Tomlin, incorporated his style of tight man to man into their defense. The Packers will be more versatile in coverage now with Capers but cannot lose their identity in coverage. They are best when they can play man to man, and it will be Capers’ job to blend the best of the Packers into the best of his scheme. That is the essence of coaching.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/01/national-football-post-diner-news-89/

[Bossman641]

Does anyone know if Suggs will be franchised? Baltimore franchised him last year if I remember right, but I don't think there was any agreement reached then about only franchising him for one year. I'm under the assumption they will do the same this year.

Crap - meant to post this in the FA thread.

[texaspackerbacker]

I only got so far, and started noticing how everyone had Barnett not on the roster. I think it's hilarious. Our best athlete at LB, and everyone is ready to cut him before we even see what Capers does with him. good god people, shut up and wait to see what we do or how capers does it before you drop the man.

Yeah. This stupid crap of disrespecting Nick Barnett is rearing its ugly head again. Cutting him, shifting him outside, come on; I thought we had gotten past that idiocy.

In contrast, this quote in Waldo's post is eminently sensible and logical. I was not aware of the way Capers's variety of 3-4 uses the NT, but the way it's described, it does seem very suitable to Packer personnel--and Capers said he likes to adapt scheme to personnel.

As for Suggs, I don't really give a shit whether he's franchised or not. The Packers don't need him, and I'm pretty sure Thompson will see it that way also.

[Lurker64]

The Packers have enough time and a baseline of talent to make this switch very easily. The 3-4 that Capers runs is not a two-gap 3-4 and uses quickness and movement of the defensive line to make plays. Ryan Pickett would be the perfect nose tackle in this scheme and they have plenty of 3-4 ends to make this work. The nose is never in a two-gap mode, he can swing from A gap to A gap in the same fashion he did when Pickett played in the 4-3. Quickness is the key for this to work and the Packers, once they get healthy, will be able to fit the pieces into the scheme. They will need more outside backers because they will keep Hawk and Barnett inside. But time is on their side and they can find the pieces to make this work. The can also use the Steelers to study and learn from since the Steelers, under Mike Tomlin, incorporated his style of tight man to man into their defense. The Packers will be more versatile in coverage now with Capers but cannot lose their identity in coverage. They are best when they can play man to man, and it will be Capers’ job to blend the best of the Packers into the best of his scheme. That is the essence of coaching.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/01/national-football-post-diner-news-89/

Good to hear it. As I understand it the two basic shapes of the 3-4 are either 2-gap responsibility for the DL, with bigger ILBs and speedier OLBs or 1-gap responsibility for the DL with speedier ILBs and bigger OLBs. Since neither Barnett nor Hawk would really be at all appropriate for the classic "rush end", keeping them both (and they're definitely two of the best players on the defense), would require us to use the latter.

So I'm guessing this means that your prototypical "classic 3-4 ILBs" like Maualuga would probably move down the Packers draft board, since I don't think he fits the scheme (and is unlikely to be the best value at #9 anyway), since I've never seen a 3-4 defense with one massive thumping ILB and one speedy instinctive ILB (but maybe it could work?), but if a guy like Curry is available at #9, they'd probably snap him up and line him up on as Sam. Though, I don't believe Capers and McCarthy have actually met with Thompson to indicate to him how he should adjust his boards and scouting yet, so this all is yet to be determined.

Also, before anybody questions Barnett and Hawk's size to play inside, keep in mind that Pittsburgh's ILBs are listed at: 6'2" 243 (Farrior), 6'1" 239 (Foote), 6'3" 234 (Fox), and 6'1" 234 (Timmons) while Barnett and Hawk are listed at 6'1" 248 and 6'2" 238. If Pittsburgh's guys are any indication, Barnett may actually be too big to play inside ;).

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

If Barnett can play inside than I would all for keeping him. And after Lurker's last post I guess Barnett would indeed fit the scheme. Probably the only thing now would be to hope that Barnett is ready for training camp so that he can learn the new defense. Also, since the scheme we will be running requires faster Ilb's I sincerely hope that Barnett does not lose a lot of speed after coming off the ACL injury.

Barnett scares me this season and that part of the reason why I kind of wanted to replace him. That and the fact that I want amazing linebackers in the 3-4 (I know Hawk hasn’t been amazing, but he has a lot of ability and I want to see it used properly).

I'd be willing to give him a shot, but Bishop has a great opportunity in front of him to make an impression and get some playing time.

[vince]

All the talk about weakness, inadequacy of personnel, etc. is just wrong. We have plenty of depth all around, partly due to injuries last season. I think Kampman will stay at DE, although I think he could handle OLB also. Another often disrespected--unjustifiably IMO--is Montgomery, who I see as backing up Kampman at DE. Jenkins should thrive in the 3-4. I see Jolly as backing him up with Harrell more likely to back up Pickett in the middle. Cole is another guy who played better than many give him credit for. I think he could be a decent backup at NT or even DE in run situations.
That's the first time I've been accused of being a doom-and-gloom guy here, so I kind of feel good about that... :) In any event, no matter how positive you are on the team overall, there are inevitably going to be some players that are not well suited for the 3-4 Tex.

Unlike some on this board, I think most of the current front seven personnel can/will make the transition effectively. I think there will be a few that won't though. In my opinon, Cole and Montgomery are two of those guys. Perhaps they'll surprise me, but absent potentially lethal doses of testosterone, I don't see Montgomery holding up as a 3-4 end, nor Cole at NT. Neither is strong enough at the point of attack at their positions in a 4-3 to be impactful, and the 3-4 will be more demanding on them. Upgrading these two spots on the roster could have a very positive impact on the team's success.

Of course it doesn't make my opinion right about these guys, but here is some support for the idea of improving these spots on the roster.

http://www.packerupdate.com/pu/2009/01/linemen-now-less-likely-to-return.html
LINEMEN ARE LESS LIKELY TO RETURN
Colin Cole and Michael Montgomery probably weren’t thrilled to hear that Dom Capers and his beloved 3-4 are coming to town. Both defensive linemen are scheduled to become unrestricted free agents late next month and neither seems to be an ideal fit for the new scheme. "Cole could probably function as a nose tackle and Montgomery as an end, but both players are better-suited for the 4-3," said a former scout. "I don’t think that either guy is stout enough at the point of attack to be anything more than a deep reserve for a team that runs a pure 3-4."

The Packers were very interested in re-signing both players as late as a few weeks ago, but that may no longer be the case. "[GM] Ted Thompson likes Cole and Montgomery a lot more than most people around the league, so you never know what will happen in the next 32 days," said the scout. "But I can’t imagine that Capers will be all that enthused about their return once he views the film from last season."