Roethlisberger HOF?

[KYPack]

Roethlisberger now has the two rings. By most observers, he'd now be a lock for the NFL HOF.

Even though he played lousy in the first one and hung on by the skin of his teeth tonite, he is virtually guaranteed a HOF berth on retirement, no?

Let me know your thoughts, all rational Packer Fans.

[red]

he's still young, but if he plays anywhere near the level that he's been playing at, then he should make it

he's not the best qb, but he sure as hell gets things done when he needs to

[cpk1994]

Its hard to say becuase he didn't play particularly well in either of them, and sicne there really is no other instance like this to compare to, you can't use porecedent. To answer, I say he is not HOF yet.

[red]

Its hard to say becuase he didn't play particularly well in either of them, and sicne there really is no other instance like this to compare to, you can't use porecedent. To answer, I say he is not HOF yet.

bradshaw and star didn't put up the best numbers either, but they did win

[cpk1994]

Its hard to say becuase he didn't play particularly well in either of them, and sicne there really is no other instance like this to compare to, you can't use porecedent. To answer, I say he is not HOF yet.

bradshaw and star didn't put up the best numbers either, but they did winTrue, I was just saying as of now, I dno't think so yet. But as you said, if he continues to play as he has, he will be one when it is all said and done.

[Guiness]

Likely in, deserving or not. This is the NFL, and the SB is a deal breaker.

John Elway, despite a great career, was in doubt until he won it.

[GrnBay007]

I think he'll be in.

[retailguy]

Brady is probably the only "lock" of the young QB's, but Rothlisberger is darn close. A couple more good seasons, and without a doubt, he's in. In a "just win" league, he's a winner.

[Zool]

Brady is probably the only "lock" of the young QB's, but Rothlisberger is darn close. A couple more good seasons, and without a doubt, he's in. In a "just win" league, he's a winner.

Brady will be 32 before the season starts.

[gbgary]

at this point no. warner...yes.

[MTPackerfan]

I would say no to Rothelisburger at this point, I find it interesting that WR have been MVP's of both the Pittsburgh super bowl wins, not Ben. I also agree that Warner should get in, he has been to three SB's and tonight he played well except for that pick at the end of the 1st half.

[retailguy]

Brady is probably the only "lock" of the young QB's, but Rothlisberger is darn close. A couple more good seasons, and without a doubt, he's in. In a "just win" league, he's a winner.

Brady will be 32 before the season starts.


To me, he's still one of the "young ones". :wink: I knew he was a bit older, but I didn't think that much older... <shit>

But anyhow, the point holds. I think Ben needs two more good years. That would be about the time I'd have thought Brady was a "lock".

[Lurker64]

At this point, no. Roethlisberger should not be in the HoF. He won two superbowls on the backs of two historically good defenses. Personally, I would say that since the Hall of Fame is an individual award, individual statistics ought to matter much, much more than championships. Championships are a team victory, winning them or not winning them shouldn't have any bearing on your HoF status.

[GrnBay007]

To me, he's still one of the "young ones". :wink: I knew he was a bit older, but I didn't think that much older... <shit>



Probably time to call it quits and settle down with some model. :P

[red]

Brady is probably the only "lock" of the young QB's, but Rothlisberger is darn close. A couple more good seasons, and without a doubt, he's in. In a "just win" league, he's a winner.

Brady will be 32 before the season starts.


To me, he's still one of the "young ones". :wink: I knew he was a bit older, but I didn't think that much older... <shit>


that's because you're an old senile geezer

everyone seems young to you :D

[Harlan Huckleby]

he damn good, that's for sure.

I think Tom Brady is better.

I'm not sure what the Hall of Fame means. Maybe the standards should be highrer.

[BF4MVP]

At this point, no. Roethlisberger should not be in the HoF. He won two superbowls on the backs of two historically good defenses. Personally, I would say that since the Hall of Fame is an individual award, individual statistics ought to matter much, much more than championships. Championships are a team victory, winning them or not winning them shouldn't have any bearing on your HoF status.
I can't believe Ben Roethlisberger has been in the league 5 years and made 1 Pro Bowl and people are already giving him HOF consideration. That is beyond ridiculous. In my mind, a player should have to have great individual statistics and longevity in order to be a Hall of Famer. The championships should enhance a player's status, but they shouldn't be the difference between a Hall of Famer and a Non-Hall of Famer..

[packinpatland]

I would say no to Rothelisburger at this point, I find it interesting that WR have been MVP's of both the Pittsburgh super bowl wins, not Ben. I also agree that Warner should get in, he has been to three SB's and tonight he played well except for that pick at the end of the 1st half.

Who threw the darn passes?
Ben deserves to be in .

MVP.........even Favre wasn't the MVP of his SB.

[red]

At this point, no. Roethlisberger should not be in the HoF. He won two superbowls on the backs of two historically good defenses. Personally, I would say that since the Hall of Fame is an individual award, individual statistics ought to matter much, much more than championships. Championships are a team victory, winning them or not winning them shouldn't have any bearing on your HoF status.
I can't believe Ben Roethlisberger has been in the league 5 years and made 1 Pro Bowl and people are already giving him HOF consideration. That is beyond ridiculous. In my mind, a player should have to have great individual statistics and longevity in order to be a Hall of Famer. The championships should enhance a player's status, but they shouldn't be the difference between a Hall of Famer and a Non-Hall of Famer..

you don't need stats to get into the hall of fame

joe namath 173 td's, 220 int's a career qb rating of 65.5. he's in

johnny unitas 290 td's 253 int's 78.2 qb rating

terry bradshaw 212 td's, 210 int's, 70.9 qb rating

bart starr 152 td's, 138 int's, 80.5 qb rating

troy aikman 165 td's, 141 int's, 81.6 qb rating

dan fouts 254-242, 80.2

bob griese 192-172, 77.1

rodger staubach 153-109, 83.4

they are all in the hall with so-so numbers

big ben 101-69, 89.4 qb rating in 5 seasons

[MTPackerfan]

I would say no to Rothelisburger at this point, I find it interesting that WR have been MVP's of both the Pittsburgh super bowl wins, not Ben. I also agree that Warner should get in, he has been to three SB's and tonight he played well except for that pick at the end of the 1st half.

Who threw the darn passes?
Ben deserves to be in .

MVP.........even Favre wasn't the MVP of his SB.

To be honest, I am not sure why Holmes got it over Ben anyway. BR eluded several potential sacks that would have lost the game for them and like you said, he threw the passes to holmes.

[VegasPackFan]

Big Ben will probably win at least one more and therefore will be a HOF'er.

You cannot deny how this guy just hangs in that pocket and makes things happen. If he goes to a few more he will only have better stats to show for it.

[KYPack]

The only negative with Ben could be his youth.

Roethlisberger is still young enough to destroy his legacy.

He could still tail way off and have a Kordell Stwart-like finsih to his career. That's what it would take to wreck his chances.

If he just plays average now until his retirement, he is in there with his two rings.

[SnakeLH2006]

At this point, no. Roethlisberger should not be in the HoF. He won two superbowls on the backs of two historically good defenses. Personally, I would say that since the Hall of Fame is an individual award, individual statistics ought to matter much, much more than championships. Championships are a team victory, winning them or not winning them shouldn't have any bearing on your HoF status.
I can't believe Ben Roethlisberger has been in the league 5 years and made 1 Pro Bowl and people are already giving him HOF consideration. That is beyond ridiculous. In my mind, a player should have to have great individual statistics and longevity in order to be a Hall of Famer. The championships should enhance a player's status, but they shouldn't be the difference between a Hall of Famer and a Non-Hall of Famer..

you don't need stats to get into the hall of fame

joe namath 173 td's, 220 int's a career qb rating of 65.5. he's in

johnny unitas 290 td's 253 int's 78.2 qb rating

terry bradshaw 212 td's, 210 int's, 70.9 qb rating

bart starr 152 td's, 138 int's, 80.5 qb rating

troy aikman 165 td's, 141 int's, 81.6 qb rating

dan fouts 254-242, 80.2

bob griese 192-172, 77.1

rodger staubach 153-109, 83.4

they are all in the hall with so-so numbers

big ben 101-69, 89.4 qb rating in 5 seasons

Wow what terrible stats..

Griese (piloted one insane Dolphin season...great broadcaster).
Bradshaw (very personable, 4 SB's would do it)
Namath....(pimp daddy, boastmaster) but 65.5 career QB rating...REALLY...

Dayummmm...I know that it wasn't a huge stat like QB rating is now, but it does measure important stuff that impacts the game from the top position (might not have been know, but QB rating affects games in many ways). I know he was innacurate, but damn if he'd be out the league in 3 years with that rating. Tell me a team that would have a QB with that rating (even if they won nowadays) that would continue to let that QB start (Vince Young no longer starts). Those are Ryan Leaf numbers.

As far as Big Ben...great individual season numbers and postseason numbers (not so much SuperBowl though) and insane winning % and leadership intangibles make him on pace with a few more good winning seasons. Right now, no, but at his pace, by 30 he'd be a lock. Great player and leader.

[bobblehead]

Aikman is the best comparison...a solid QB blessed with a top notch defense...but Aikman had even better running game than Roth has. Aik went first ballot so unless Big Ben is caught with a 12 year old or murders his exwife I would say he is already near a lock.

[Patler]

Which just goes to show that many QBs make the HOF because of the team they were with rather than what they really did.

Would Terry Bradshaw be in the HOF if he had played for the Packers?
Would Lynn Dickey be in the HOF if he had played for the Steelers?

[Cheesehead Craig]

If Big Ben got hurt bad enough this offseason and his career came to a sudden end he would not be in. Not enough of an overall body of work. He's gotta stick around a bit longer.

[Freak Out]

Which just goes to show that many QBs make the HOF because of the team they were with rather than what they really did.

Would Terry Bradshaw be in the HOF if he had played for the Packers?
Would Lynn Dickey be in the HOF if he had played for the Steelers?

No.
Yes.

It is so hard to judge just on stats because of all the rule changes over the years and how it changed the game.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Likely in, deserving or not. This is the NFL, and the SB is a deal breaker.

John Elway, despite a great career, was in doubt until he won it.

You are high as a kite. Elway was in the HOF regardless of winning the SB.

Didn't stop Tark, wouldn't have stopped Elway.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

at this point no. warner...yes.

Warner: No way. 5 good years doesnt' get you in the HOF.

[Partial]

I will bet you 10,000 USD that Kurt Warner gets in the hall of fame.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I will bet you 10,000 USD that Kurt Warner gets in the hall of fame.

As if you have it.

Please, go back to your bi annual, partial "i'm fat thread and now i want to discuss working out."

[pbmax]

The only negative with Ben could be his youth.

Roethlisberger is still young enough to destroy his legacy.

He could still tail way off and have a Kordell Stwart-like finsih to his career. That's what it would take to wreck his chances.

If he just plays average now until his retirement, he is in there with his two rings.
Probably true, but there is always injury. Terrell Davis isn't going in and he was more dominant with 2 Super Bowl titles to his name. Also did not help that people named Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson and Tatum Bell got 1,000 yards. People forget that Davis was WAY above that standard and was better than all the others in the Denver system. Ben should hope that Byron Leftwich never gets to Hostetler him. :lol:

People have said Elway was in doubt before the Super Bowls. I am sure he would have collected less of the vote, but as he is seen as one of the four best ever (Montana, Marino, Unitas), and Marino somehow snuck in, Elway was a lock.

You cannot compare cumulative passing stats between eras. Rule changes in 1978 and beyond changed the entire game. Aikman is the case that sits poorly with his stats compared to his contemporaries. Could he have done more if he had to pass more? Probably. Was he good enough as the primary offensive weapon to get in on his own? We'll never know.

[Partial]

I will bet you 10,000 USD that Kurt Warner gets in the hall of fame.

As if you have it.

Please, go back to your bi annual, partial "i'm fat thread and now i want to discuss working out."

ROFL. Scared to put your money where your mouth is? It's very obvious to everyone and their mother that Warner is a shoe in.

[bobblehead]

I will bet you 10,000 USD that Kurt Warner gets in the hall of fame.

As if you have it.

Please, go back to your bi annual, partial "i'm fat thread and now i want to discuss working out."

ROFL. Scared to put your money where your mouth is? It's very obvious to everyone and their mother that Warner is a shoe in.

Yes warner is a lock...3 super bowls with 2 seperate teams. One win, An MVP award. And QBing the last NFL franchise toa super bowl.

[Fritz]

At this point, no. Roethlisberger should not be in the HoF. He won two superbowls on the backs of two historically good defenses. Personally, I would say that since the Hall of Fame is an individual award, individual statistics ought to matter much, much more than championships. Championships are a team victory, winning them or not winning them shouldn't have any bearing on your HoF status.
I can't believe Ben Roethlisberger has been in the league 5 years and made 1 Pro Bowl and people are already giving him HOF consideration. That is beyond ridiculous. In my mind, a player should have to have great individual statistics and longevity in order to be a Hall of Famer. The championships should enhance a player's status, but they shouldn't be the difference between a Hall of Famer and a Non-Hall of Famer..

you don't need stats to get into the hall of fame

joe namath 173 td's, 220 int's a career qb rating of 65.5. he's in

johnny unitas 290 td's 253 int's 78.2 qb rating

terry bradshaw 212 td's, 210 int's, 70.9 qb rating

bart starr 152 td's, 138 int's, 80.5 qb rating

troy aikman 165 td's, 141 int's, 81.6 qb rating

dan fouts 254-242, 80.2

bob griese 192-172, 77.1

rodger staubach 153-109, 83.4

they are all in the hall with so-so numbers

big ben 101-69, 89.4 qb rating in 5 seasons

I honestly had no idea that hall of fame QB's threw so many picks. Holy cow. Joe Namath looks like he was an interception machine.

And personally, I always, always thought Terry Bradshaw was way overrated.

Don't give me that crap "he's a winner," either. You can have a rocket arm, perfect football intelligence, awesome decision-making skills, great mobility, great size, strength, speed, and so on and so on and so on, but if you don't have talent around you, it's not your fault you don't get to a Super Bowl. If your TEAM sucks, you can't take them to the promised land.

The Hall of Fame is I thought about individuals, for the most part.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I will bet you 10,000 USD that Kurt Warner gets in the hall of fame.

As if you have it.

Please, go back to your bi annual, partial "i'm fat thread and now i want to discuss working out."

ROFL. Scared to put your money where your mouth is? It's very obvious to everyone and their mother that Warner is a shoe in.

The only thing i'm afraid of is your poor english skills.

I'm sure Warner will enter the Hall with Money Morency. :oops:

Obvious to everyone? LOL There are plenty that dont' believe he is HOF worthy.

“He’s not even in the conversation,” Vito Stellino, a football writer and a Hall of Fame voter, was quoted as saying last week if the Cardinals didn’t win.

Writing before the game, Gary Myers of The Daily News said the second Super Bowl victory was “crucial”. (Warner has one victory and two losses in Super Bowls.)


I believe Phil Simms would be in the Hall of Fame if he didn’t get injured late in the 1990 season and was the quarterback instead of Jeff Hostetler when the Giants beat the Bills.

Myers later quoted ESPN’s John Clayton as saying: “He needs to win this game. I don’t think there is any question,” although Clayton said Warner could also get in with a few more elite seasons.

Ken Anderson, Phil Simms, and Kenny Stabler aren't in the Hall. Warner wont' make it.

[Partial]

Alright, then make the bet, guy. Warner is a virtual lock imo. Especially with his fantastic performance in the big game. Stats aren't everything, but he has had damn impressive numbers in the super bowl.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Alright, then make the bet, guy. Warner is a virtual lock imo. Especially with his fantastic performance in the big game. Stats aren't everything, but he has had damn impressive numbers in the super bowl.

Well, look at you backpedal..from everyone..to just make the bet. The fact remains that he has had 5 good seasons..that ain't enough..and plenty of HOF voters feel the same way.

Why would i bet you? You have a history of making bets and paying off? You have 10k available? Prove it.

Tell you what..put the 10k in some sort of escrow and we'll talk.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I will bet you 10,000 USD that Kurt Warner gets in the hall of fame.

As if you have it.

Please, go back to your bi annual, partial "i'm fat thread and now i want to discuss working out."

ROFL. Scared to put your money where your mouth is? It's very obvious to everyone and their mother that Warner is a shoe in.

Yes warner is a lock...3 super bowls with 2 seperate teams. One win, An MVP award. And QBing the last NFL franchise toa super bowl.

You obviously don't follow the NFL has many writers have come out against him. He is hardly a lock. Locks go in on the first ballot.

I'll put up any amount that he isn't going in on the first ballot.

[Guiness]

I honestly had no idea that hall of fame QB's threw so many picks. Holy cow. Joe Namath looks like he was an interception machine.


Namath is always the post card guy for 'which one of these things doesn't belong'. Thing is, he's in because of one game, and the guarantee.

He QB'd the first AFC team to win a SB, and until that happened, popular thinking was that the NFL was SO superior that the AFC could not, and would not, win the NFL-AFL championship, maybe not for years.

Without that one game, and probably with it but without the boast, he's not in.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I will bet you 10,000 USD that Kurt Warner gets in the hall of fame.

If you get a taker for that bet, I will be happy to hold the money from both parties until a winner can be determined. I have references, its cool.

[mraynrand]

I will bet you 10,000 USD that Kurt Warner gets in the hall of fame.

That's a smart bet. I'll bet you 1,000,000 that Ahmad Carroll gets in the HOF.

[LEWCWA]

Its hard to say becuase he didn't play particularly well in either of them, and sicne there really is no other instance like this to compare to, you can't use porecedent. To answer, I say he is not HOF yet.

Ben didn't play well this weekend? Are you blind? He had and awsome game. The guy was lights out Sunday....As far as the hall is concerned, he is on a carrer path the ends in Canton....and I don't think the Steelers are going to go Detroit anytime soon...I would guess he ends up with a bust!

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I will bet you 10,000 USD that Kurt Warner gets in the hall of fame.

If you get a taker for that bet, I will be happy to hold the money from both parties until a winner can be determined. I have references, its cool.

Time to put up or shut up Partial. As soon as HH PMs me that he has your money, i'll send him mine.

P.S. HH i will expect you put mine in some sort of interest bearing account. :wink:

[Partial]

Ty I already said lets do the bet. Agree to it and consider it a done deal.