"Retirement" all part of a plan?

[Patler]

For all the skeptics out there:

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/ic/blogs/insider/index.shtml

It is an easy one to support:
Favre wanted his release last year, but he could not force the Packers hand to get it.
There is already a rumor that Favre's agent asked the Jets to release him.
Favre has said that his reason to retire (his arm) could change over the summer.
Favre likely CAN force the Jets to release him in late summer.

[Fritz]

I just read the same blog, Patler. Here's the part that caught my eye:

", Favre's agent, James "Bus" Cook, "informally discussed the option of releasing Favre" but "the Jets respectfully declined that option, a source said."

Up to this point, the only point that had come out was that cook had "discussed the option," which is different than asking the team directly to release Favre.

However, that new line - "the Jets respectfully declined that option" - if true suggests that Cook out-and-out asked the Jets to release Favre. You can't decline an option unless someone asks you to take it.

This, plus Favre saying he can't be sure how his arm will feel, does add fuel to the fire for those who might be skeptical. The pieces are in place that could potentially allow Favre to find his way to another team, say, one whose jerseys are purple.

I'm just putting it out there. It's the slow news season, after all.

[sheepshead]

Florio says Favre filed his papers this time. This tells me something...or nothing. But, could we see Brett waiting until the Jets fill his spot. Then he asks for his release. First flight to Minneapolis.

[cpk1994]

Florio says Favre filed his papers this time. This tells me something...or nothing. But, could we see Brett waiting until the Jets fill his spot. Then he asks for his release. First flight to Minneapolis.Problem is, he has to file his reinstatement papers and then the Jets will have to make a decision. And you are making a mighty assuption that the Vikings would even want anything to do with him now, especially with the admission that Favre regresses late in the season.

[cpk1994]

For all the skeptics out there:

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/ic/blogs/insider/index.shtml

It is an easy one to support:
Favre wanted his release last year, but he could not force the Packers hand to get it.
There is already a rumor that Favre's agent asked the Jets to release him.
Favre has said that his reason to retire (his arm) could change over the summer.
Favre likely CAN force the Jets to release him in late summer.Favre cna't force the Jets to do squat. THe Jets can make moves to get Favre under the cap.

[Patler]

For all the skeptics out there:

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/ic/blogs/insider/index.shtml

It is an easy one to support:
Favre wanted his release last year, but he could not force the Packers hand to get it.
There is already a rumor that Favre's agent asked the Jets to release him.
Favre has said that his reason to retire (his arm) could change over the summer.
Favre likely CAN force the Jets to release him in late summer.Favre cna't force the Jets to do squat. THe Jets can make moves to get Favre under the cap.

Well sure they can, but that is the point. The Jets would have to make a lot of moves to absorb his $13 million cap amount, because they will be floating near the cap through out the summer, most likely. It will take a lot of significant moves by them to work Favre under the cap, and would they want to do that just before training camp, for example? He can't be 100% sure that they would release him, but after making the adjustments they may have to anyway, and gotten their camp roster set, at the last minute will they want to release 3, 4 or 5 higher salary guys and look for 3, 4 or 5 more camp bodies at minimum salary just to work Favre in? I doubt it.

Very different than last year when the Packers had to do nothing to add Favre's salary to their salary cap in 2008. The Packers could wait out Favre, the Jets will not be able to. They will have to make an immediate decision to release him or to cut guys and keep him.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

If Favre tried to force his way back they might accept if they have the cap. Its not like they are going to be set at QB.

[Patler]

If Favre tried to force his way back they might accept if they have the cap. Its not like they are going to be set at QB.

But getting the cap space for his $13 million salary will not be easy for the Jets.

[sheepshead]

Florio says Favre filed his papers this time. This tells me something...or nothing. But, could we see Brett waiting until the Jets fill his spot. Then he asks for his release. First flight to Minneapolis.Problem is, he has to file his reinstatement papers and then the Jets will have to make a decision. And you are making a mighty assuption that the Vikings would even want anything to do with him now, especially with the admission that Favre regresses late in the season.

I am assuming that he has spoken to the Vikings. Yeah, I know it's a stretch but certainly not out of the realm of possibility.

Actually, the more i think about it, this wont happen. In the Gentleman's club of NFL GMs Tannebaum would be outcast as a guy who bucked the system to strengthen another team and stick it to the Packers. I don't think he would do it for fear of having to deal wth said GM's in the future. Favre stays retired.

[Pugger]

If the Jets give Brett his unconditional release down the road it won't be the first time NJ just cut a QB with any value...

[cpk1994]

Florio says Favre filed his papers this time. This tells me something...or nothing. But, could we see Brett waiting until the Jets fill his spot. Then he asks for his release. First flight to Minneapolis.Problem is, he has to file his reinstatement papers and then the Jets will have to make a decision. And you are making a mighty assuption that the Vikings would even want anything to do with him now, especially with the admission that Favre regresses late in the season.

I am assuming that he has spoken to the Vikings. Yeah, I know it's a stretch but certainly not out of the realm of possibility.

Actually, the more i think about it, this wont happen. In the Gentleman's club of NFL GMs Tannebaum would be outcast as a guy who bucked the system to strengthen another team and stick it to the Packers. I don't think he would do it for fear of having to deal wth said GM's in the future. Favre stays retired.Now thats something I have never thought of before. I think the other reason is if Favre tries this tactic again, he will not have the media bending over backwards to defend him. Even ESPN in their articles are saying he should stay retired this time.

[Spaulding]

We'd get our 6th round draft choice back if he does come back. Would be interesting for the NFL though if he did come back, get his release and then play for the Vikings.

If that was the case, the dwindling remaining loyalty to him would be gone.

[Fritz]

Florio says Favre filed his papers this time. This tells me something...or nothing. But, could we see Brett waiting until the Jets fill his spot. Then he asks for his release. First flight to Minneapolis.Problem is, he has to file his reinstatement papers and then the Jets will have to make a decision. And you are making a mighty assuption that the Vikings would even want anything to do with him now, especially with the admission that Favre regresses late in the season.

I am assuming that he has spoken to the Vikings. Yeah, I know it's a stretch but certainly not out of the realm of possibility.

Actually, the more i think about it, this wont happen. In the Gentleman's club of NFL GMs Tannebaum would be outcast as a guy who bucked the system to strengthen another team and stick it to the Packers. I don't think he would do it for fear of having to deal wth said GM's in the future. Favre stays retired.

But that's not what would be happening. IF Favre decided on a comeback in, say, June, by that time the Jets would've set most of their roster in terms of signings and getting under the cap. Even without Favre's contract they're in a bit of a tight spot.

So IF Favre wanted to come back, the Jets would have to decide between gutting their roster to make room for Favre's 13 mil - and how would that help a team who has a new coach and has to rebuild to some degree? - or just cutting Favre and getting on with the future...

Not Tannenbaum's fault then if he cuts Favre.

[cpk1994]

Florio says Favre filed his papers this time. This tells me something...or nothing. But, could we see Brett waiting until the Jets fill his spot. Then he asks for his release. First flight to Minneapolis.Problem is, he has to file his reinstatement papers and then the Jets will have to make a decision. And you are making a mighty assuption that the Vikings would even want anything to do with him now, especially with the admission that Favre regresses late in the season.

I am assuming that he has spoken to the Vikings. Yeah, I know it's a stretch but certainly not out of the realm of possibility.

Actually, the more i think about it, this wont happen. In the Gentleman's club of NFL GMs Tannebaum would be outcast as a guy who bucked the system to strengthen another team and stick it to the Packers. I don't think he would do it for fear of having to deal wth said GM's in the future. Favre stays retired.

But that's not what would be happening. IF Favre decided on a comeback in, say, June, by that time the Jets would've set most of their roster in terms of signings and getting under the cap. Even without Favre's contract they're in a bit of a tight spot.

So IF Favre wanted to come back, the Jets would have to decide between gutting their roster to make room for Favre's 13 mil - and how would that help a team who has a new coach and has to rebuild to some degree? - or just cutting Favre and getting on with the future...

Not Tannenbaum's fault then if he cuts Favre.But thats not how the GM's gentlemans club operates. Tannenbaum may have a good reason to cut Favre, but that doesn't mean the other GM's aren't going to outcast him for allowing a player to stick it to a fellow GM. It would certainly make it harder for Tannebaum to make deals with other teams.

[Green Bud Packer]

Favre wanted his release so he could retire a Packer :bs:

[Lurker64]

I think it's conceivable that if Favre unretires at the end of the summer he would find the Jets in a place where they would rather eat the 13 million and clear space for him, than to cut him.

I mean, if you're setting up a training camp battle between Kellen Clemens and Josh Freeman, and Brett Favre comes knocking, are you really going to say no? The Packers, last July, were much more settled in the starting QB department than the Jets are likely to be this July.

[Partial]

The Packers, last July, were much more settled in the starting QB department than the Jets are likely to be this July.

How? Aaron had ZERO career starts, and looked above average in one game. Clemens is ahead of where A-Rod was in starts and experience certainly.

[Lurker64]

How? Aaron had ZERO career starts, and looked above average in one game. Clemens is ahead of where A-Rod was in starts and experience certainly.

Aaron Rodgers is simply a better player than Kellen Clemens will ever be, especially since the Jets have basically abandoned their idea of having him be the QB for the future and QB guru Mike McCarthy had the opposite opinion of his young QB. Kellen Clemens isn't ready to play at a high level in the NFL, he may never be.

[Fritz]

Florio says Favre filed his papers this time. This tells me something...or nothing. But, could we see Brett waiting until the Jets fill his spot. Then he asks for his release. First flight to Minneapolis.Problem is, he has to file his reinstatement papers and then the Jets will have to make a decision. And you are making a mighty assuption that the Vikings would even want anything to do with him now, especially with the admission that Favre regresses late in the season.

I am assuming that he has spoken to the Vikings. Yeah, I know it's a stretch but certainly not out of the realm of possibility.

Actually, the more i think about it, this wont happen. In the Gentleman's club of NFL GMs Tannebaum would be outcast as a guy who bucked the system to strengthen another team and stick it to the Packers. I don't think he would do it for fear of having to deal wth said GM's in the future. Favre stays retired.

But that's not what would be happening. IF Favre decided on a comeback in, say, June, by that time the Jets would've set most of their roster in terms of signings and getting under the cap. Even without Favre's contract they're in a bit of a tight spot.

So IF Favre wanted to come back, the Jets would have to decide between gutting their roster to make room for Favre's 13 mil - and how would that help a team who has a new coach and has to rebuild to some degree? - or just cutting Favre and getting on with the future...

Not Tannenbaum's fault then if he cuts Favre.But thats not how the GM's gentlemans club operates. Tannenbaum may have a good reason to cut Favre, but that doesn't mean the other GM's aren't going to outcast him for allowing a player to stick it to a fellow GM. It would certainly make it harder for Tannebaum to make deals with other teams.

Guess we just disagree. Even within the gent's club, I have a hard time imagining them blaming Tannenbaum. Why make a move that might be seen as hurting your own club/ (cutting players to make space for one player who probably is not worth the salary he'd be getting)

[sharpe1027]

Favre wanted his release so he could retire a Packer :bs:

That can be done in other ways like structuring a trade that will protect both the Jets and the Packers, one that would reduce his salary to the minimum and have no-trade clauses ect. or simply do it in a few years.

[Partial]

How? Aaron had ZERO career starts, and looked above average in one game. Clemens is ahead of where A-Rod was in starts and experience certainly.

Aaron Rodgers is simply a better player than Kellen Clemens will ever be, especially since the Jets have basically abandoned their idea of having him be the QB for the future and QB guru Mike McCarthy had the opposite opinion of his young QB. Kellen Clemens isn't ready to play at a high level in the NFL, he may never be.

How do you know that? Rodgers is a slightly above average QB at best right now. Clemens hasn't shown enough either way.

MM probably has that opinion because his boss is forcing it on him so he can win face against BF. If they thought THAT highly of Rodgers, they would have fortified our struggling offense with that second round pick instead of spending it on a quarterback (who I think is still our eventual starter).

[Bossman641]

How? Aaron had ZERO career starts, and looked above average in one game. Clemens is ahead of where A-Rod was in starts and experience certainly.

Aaron Rodgers is simply a better player than Kellen Clemens will ever be, especially since the Jets have basically abandoned their idea of having him be the QB for the future and QB guru Mike McCarthy had the opposite opinion of his young QB. Kellen Clemens isn't ready to play at a high level in the NFL, he may never be.

How do you know that? Rodgers is a slightly above average QB at best right now. Clemens hasn't shown enough either way.

MM probably has that opinion because his boss is forcing it on him so he can win face against BF. If they thought THAT highly of Rodgers, they would have fortified our struggling offense with that second round pick instead of spending it on a quarterback (who I think is still our eventual starter).

Kellen Clemens isn't anywhere near Rodgers' level. Not even close.

While I don't like the Brohm pick now, at the time it was thought to be one of the steals of the draft. As for why they picked him I think it was more insurance than anything. We had nothing behind Rodgers at the time and the coaching staff had an idea, but not any type of certainty, of what Rodgers would be able to do. They hadn't seen Rodgers go through minicamps or training camps as the starters. All they had to go off him was mop-up time and scout QB duty in pracitces. They also had no clue how tough he would be in playing through injuries.

I'm sure if you asked MM now he'd say he's 1000 times more confident in Rodgers now then he was last April.

[Partial]

How do you know? Rodgers is average, he's not special. Before he started, he looked good in one game. Clemens hasn't played much either, so it's still up in there air. That loco to right a guy off before he's had a chance.

[Lurker64]

Kellens is a fourth year player with eight starts who has never looked good. He may turn it around, but he's not somebody the Jets could count on.

[sheepshead]

How do you know? Rodgers is average, he's not special. Before he started, he looked good in one game. Clemens hasn't played much either, so it's still up in there air. That loco to right a guy off before he's had a chance.



Rodgers is average? Based on what? Certainly not statistically. I'd like to see how came up with this.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Rodgers is already a good starting QB. Clemens hasn't remotely shown the ability to be a starting caliber QB in the NFL. Comparing them is laughable.

[Zool]

Well Clemens has a noodle arm. We can compare them that way.

[sharpe1027]

How do you know? Rodgers is average, he's not special. Before he started, he looked good in one game. Clemens hasn't played much either, so it's still up in there air. That loco to right a guy off before he's had a chance.

QB rating: 6th
Completion %: 10th
Yards: 4th
Yards/Att: 9th
TDs: 4th
TD%: 4th

Basically every major statistical category he is well, well above average, but I'm guessing your own personal judgment of talent is more relevant, right? :wink:

[channtheman]

How do you even compare Kellen Clemens and Aaron Rodgers? Please Partial, enlighten us on what goes through your head. Rodgers could throw 40 TD's a year and 5000 yards and have a rating of 120 and you would still call him average.

[mraynrand]

Rodgers is average.

That's just loopy. Crazy talk. Unsupportable.

[cpk1994]

How? Aaron had ZERO career starts, and looked above average in one game. Clemens is ahead of where A-Rod was in starts and experience certainly.

Aaron Rodgers is simply a better player than Kellen Clemens will ever be, especially since the Jets have basically abandoned their idea of having him be the QB for the future and QB guru Mike McCarthy had the opposite opinion of his young QB. Kellen Clemens isn't ready to play at a high level in the NFL, he may never be.

How do you know that? Rodgers is a slightly above average QB at best right now. Clemens hasn't shown enough either way.

MM probably has that opinion because his boss is forcing it on him so he can win face against BF. If they thought THAT highly of Rodgers, they would have fortified our struggling offense with that second round pick instead of spending it on a quarterback (who I think is still our eventual starter).You hate Rodgers, we get it. The rest of your post is garbage as M3 wants Arod just as much as TT did so saying TT is shoving ARod down M3 throat is pure an utter bullshit. Rodgers is better than Clemens and it ain't even close. Just admit you hate Rodgers and will move on.

[cpk1994]

How do you know? Rodgers is average, he's not special. Before he started, he looked good in one game. Clemens hasn't played much either, so it's still up in there air. That loco to right a guy off before he's had a chance.Kind of like how you have been writing off Rodgers before he started a game? Talk about blatant hypocrisy!

[Freak Out]

Freaking Patler. :lol:

[sheepshead]

How do you know? Rodgers is average, he's not special. Before he started, he looked good in one game. Clemens hasn't played much either, so it's still up in there air. That loco to right a guy off before he's had a chance.

QB rating: 6th
Completion %: 10th
Yards: 4th
Yards/Att: 9th
TDs: 4th
TD%: 4th

Basically every major statistical category he is well, well above average, but I'm guessing your own personal judgment of talent is more relevant, right? :wink:

Best QB in the NFC North also.

All with a Swiss cheese defense and a shuffling OL.

[Bossman641]

How do you know? Rodgers is average, he's not special. Before he started, he looked good in one game. Clemens hasn't played much either, so it's still up in there air. That loco to right a guy off before he's had a chance.

I really can't figure you out. Didn't you once say before that Rodgers had this year only to show anything and if you were the GM and you didn't like his performance you would quickly get rid of him and move on to the next guy?

And yet, here you are willing to give a guy with a career QB rating of 60, 52% completion, 5 TD, and 11 INT more time?

Is it just that time of the month or what? Time for Partial's monthly post about pointing out how average Rodgers is?

They're not even remotely comparable.

Here I'll even put it in your language, maybe you'll understand it this way.

Clemens != Rodgers

[mission]

And yet, here you are willing to give a guy with a career QB rating of 60, 52% completion, 5 TD, and 11 INT more time?s

Wow! I didn't know it was *that* bad! I read his post when it went up, started a reply and just decided against it... I wanted to read yall's onslaught and it delivers. :lol: The comparison is too much.

[vince]

There you guys go again focusing on the man's worst attributes - his actual performance on the field. It's clearly Clemens' revolutionary physique that gives him such potential... Plus, I'm sure he had to have led a last minute comeback in college or high school at some point.

Get a clue people. Those of us in the know understand what this dude's really all about.

[Joemailman]

Rodgers is average.

That's just loopy. Crazy talk. Unsupportable.

Stop picking on Partial. Somebody here had to fill Tank's role.

[Packers4Ever]

We'd get our 6th round draft choice back if he does come back. Would be interesting for the NFL though if he did come back, get his release and then play for the Vikings.

If that was the case, the dwindling remaining loyalty to him would be gone.

I doubt if the Vikings would still be hot to have Favre on their squad, if they ever were. Put yourself in the place of the Viking's owners, GM, coaches as well as MN fans, I know they need a big name to 'beef up' their ticket sales after falling so far behind in 2008 but I don't think that would work anymore.

Makes you sick, he's really put himself into a bad situation for a year now and that's not going to help him fan - wise - or Media. ESPN wasn't exactly
giving him a boost today......

[Partial]

There you guys go again focusing on the man's worst attributes - his actual performance on the field. It's clearly Clemens' revolutionary physique that gives him such potential... Plus, I'm sure he had to have led a last minute comeback in college or high school at some point.

Get a clue people. Those of us in the know understand what this dude's really all about.

Right. So far, you've shown a football IQ of about 2. Rodgers led a 13-3 team to a 6-10 record, and took a great offense and made them anemic.

Clemens' playing time came as a Rookie. Look at how bad Rodgers stats as a rookie were! Completely unfair comparison.

[Partial]

Rodgers is average.

That's just loopy. Crazy talk. Unsupportable.

Stop picking on Partial. Somebody here had to fill Tank's role.

How's it not? When was the last time a stud quarterback with a team that went to the championship the previous year went 6-10?!?

Our offense went from world class to inept. That is an undeniable fact. We were beyond awful in the second half.

I'm not like Tank. Anyone who is anyone who watches football can go through a list of quarterbacks, and Rodgers typically falls at best 10th or so in the league (upper end of AVERAGE) to 20th (lower end of average).

Bob McGinn interviewed professional scouts (better at ranking players than your common board poster) and they ranked him on average 19th in the league. That is BELOW average. I think he is better than that, and probably around 14th best.

14th best in the league is average.

Seriously, some of you guys evidently don't understand what average is. I would like everyone here to rank the top 20 quarterbacks in the NFL in order of their ability to win a crucial game today against a top-tier team. I suspect Rodgers will be ranked about 12th.

12th is average!

[Gunakor]

There you guys go again focusing on the man's worst attributes - his actual performance on the field. It's clearly Clemens' revolutionary physique that gives him such potential... Plus, I'm sure he had to have led a last minute comeback in college or high school at some point.

Get a clue people. Those of us in the know understand what this dude's really all about.

Right. So far, you've shown a football IQ of about 2. Rodgers led a 13-3 team to a 6-10 record, and took a great offense and made them anemic.

Clemens' playing time came as a Rookie. Look at how bad Rodgers stats as a rookie were! Completely unfair comparison.

LOL at TEAM records being used as the baramoter to compare INDIVIDUAL performances. And you got it wrong anyway.

First of all, the Packers of 2007 were NOT a 13 win team. They were a 10 win team that happened to win 13 games based on sheer luck. Secondly, the 2008 packers were not merely a 6 win team, they were an 8-9 win team that happened to only win 6 games based on injury and defensive meltdowns.

But, while you are comparing the 13 win 2007 team to the 6 win 2008 team, why don't you include DEFENSIVE statistics from both years in your argument? Like, you know, how many times did our opponents score on their very last possession of the game in 2007 compared to 2008. Or total points given up overall.

[vince]

How do you know? Rodgers is average, he's not special. Before he started, he looked good in one game. Clemens hasn't played much either, so it's still up in there air. That loco to right a guy off before he's had a chance.

QB rating: 6th
Completion %: 10th
Yards: 4th
Yards/Att: 9th
TDs: 4th
TD%: 4th

Basically every major statistical category he is well, well above average, but I'm guessing your own personal judgment of talent is more relevant, right? :wink:
C'mon sharpe. You just seriously don't understand what average means man. You know, that word that Partial can stretch to mean whatever he needs it to in order to dig in his heels and maintain he's right about something in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

And besides, you're absolutely right that those completely objective actual performance measurments don't count here. As you say, it's only about what the Parsh-man says his talent level is. Average man.

12th in the league? Forget about whether there's any actual validity whatsoever in Partial's magical formula of etceteras or not, but even though there would be almost twice as many below him at that ranking - that's average man! Well, maybe it's actually much better than average, but it's close enough to average for Partial to ignore Rodgers' actual performance rankings and rate him by his physique and his defense's inability to stop the opponents late in games - and who knows what other irrelevant criteria to pull him down to 12th. Then he can legitimately stretch the real meaning of the word in a feeble attempt to support his opinions - and criticize everyone for not knowing the meaning of the word average at the same time.

Don't worry about whether the coaches that work with him every day say that Rodgers scores higher than any quarterback they have ever worked with across the full spectrum of skills and abilities needed for success in this league. And by all means, don't worry about his actual performance relative to the other quarterbacks in the league.

It's all about what Partial, Bob McGinn, and a few anonymous hand-picked "scouts" McGinn selected to support his opinion think. You know - those in the know man! And McGinn is completely objective you see. His job has no dependence whatsoever on his ability to stir controversy to sell papers or anything of the like.

Mike McCarthy - clearly not in the know when it comes to Aaron Rodgers. What does he know about quarterbacks? He's just a puppet to manage Ted Thompson's public image. And Thompson's observations about Rodgers' development over the last four years? Worthless. He'd rather throw an average quarterback out there just to cover his ass on his draft picks - because that would be better for his public image than winning the actual games.

Partial could teach those guys - and all of us - a few things about the meaning of average.

[cpk1994]

It's all about what Partial, Bob McGinn, and a few anonymous hand-picked "scouts" McGinn selected to support his opinion think. You know - those in the know man! And McGinn is completely objective you see. His job has no dependence whatsoever on his ability to stir controversy to sell papers or anything of the like.
Not to mention it is well known that McGinn was very pro-Favre and bashed Thompson big time.

[Fritz]

C'mon, Vince. That whole rationality-logic-facts thing again. It's so...inconvenient.

[KYPack]

Anything you say, Partial.

[Fritz]

I guess I'm partial to you.

[KYPack]

No, Fritz.

I was talking to Partial.

"Listening" doesn't seem to be his strong suit, so I say, let him run.

[Partial]

Go through and rank the quarterbacks. I'm not saying his stats aren't the 6th best... but really, are you telling me there are only 5 quarterbacks in the league you'd rather have above him?

There are only 5-6 upper echelon QBs in the NFL. There are about 20 that are average. There are about 5-6 lower echelon QBs in the NFL.

Go through and make a list, one by one. I'll be curious to see where you homers end up with. Rodgers is not top 10 on mine, thats for sure.

[sheepshead]

Go through and rank the quarterbacks. I'm not saying his stats aren't the 6th best... but really, are you telling me there are only 5 quarterbacks in the league you'd rather have above him?

There are only 5-6 upper echelon QBs in the NFL. There are about 20 that are average. There are about 5-6 lower echelon QBs in the NFL.

Go through and make a list, one by one. I'll be curious to see where you homers end up with. Rodgers is not top 10 on mine, thats for sure.

Hey moron, this isnt fantasy football. If you don't like our quarterback, maybe we need to change. Would you like someone from our bench to start instead? How about the draft? Somebody there we should take?

How about somebody from this list?


ESTRICTED FREE AGENTS:

Gibran Hamdan, Bills.

UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENTS:

Brian St. Pierre, Cardinals.

Kurt Warner, Cardinals.

J.P. Losman, Bills.

Kyle Boller, Ravens.

Todd Bouman, Ravens.

Rex Grossman, Bears.

Ryan Fitzpatrick, Bengals.

Brooks Bollinger, Cowboys.

Patrick Ramsey, Broncos.

Dan Orlovsky, Lions.

Matt Cassel, Patriots. (Franchise tag.)

Joey Harrington, Saints.

David Carr, Giants. (Re-signed 2/9/09.)

Anthony Wright, Giants.

Marques Tuiasosopo, Raiders.

Charlie Batch, Steelers.

Byron Leftwich, Steelers.

Jamie Martin, 49ers.

J.T. O’Sullivan, 49ers.

Charlie Frye, Seahawks.

Jeff Garcia, Buccaneers.

Luke McCown, Buccaneers. (Re-signed 2/9/09.)

Kerry Collins, Titans.

Chris Simms, Titans.

Source: NFL Players Association.


Because guess what douchbag. Tom Brady, Drew Brees or Payton Manning arent coming here to play football. You tout yourself as a smart successful driven guy that needs to loose 100 lbs. Maybe all that fat has messed up your brain. We would all consider it a favor if your comments were constructive. Instead of idol bitching like a little girl. Quarterback is NOT a need on the Green Bay Packers. Cut the crap already.

[Gunakor]

Go through and rank the quarterbacks. I'm not saying his stats aren't the 6th best... but really, are you telling me there are only 5 quarterbacks in the league you'd rather have above him?

There are only 5-6 upper echelon QBs in the NFL. There are about 20 that are average. There are about 5-6 lower echelon QBs in the NFL.

Go through and make a list, one by one. I'll be curious to see where you homers end up with. Rodgers is not top 10 on mine, thats for sure.

Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady (if healthy), Carson Palmer (if healthy), Phillip Rivers, and Ben Rothlisberger I'd surely put ahead of Rodgers at this point. Maybe Kurt Warner, but who knows what Rodgers would look like with a go to guy like Larry Fitzgerald to throw to. That guy can make any QB look good.

Am I missing anyone?

[cpk1994]

Go through and rank the quarterbacks. I'm not saying his stats aren't the 6th best... but really, are you telling me there are only 5 quarterbacks in the league you'd rather have above him?

There are only 5-6 upper echelon QBs in the NFL. There are about 20 that are average. There are about 5-6 lower echelon QBs in the NFL.

Go through and make a list, one by one. I'll be curious to see where you homers end up with. Rodgers is not top 10 on mine, thats for sure.

Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady (if healthy), Carson Palmer (if healthy), Phillip Rivers, and Ben Rothlisberger I'd surely put ahead of Rodgers at this point. Maybe Kurt Warner, but who knows what Rodgers would look like with a go to guy like Larry Fitzgerald to throw to. That guy can make any QB look good.

Am I missing anyone?I dsagree about Palmer. I really don't think is much of anything anymore and Rodgers is better than Palmer right now. so my list.

Manning
Brady(if healthy)
Brees
Rivers
Rothliesberger
Rodgers

Rodgers good enough for 6th on my list.

[cpk1994]

Go through and rank the quarterbacks. I'm not saying his stats aren't the 6th best... but really, are you telling me there are only 5 quarterbacks in the league you'd rather have above him?

There are only 5-6 upper echelon QBs in the NFL. There are about 20 that are average. There are about 5-6 lower echelon QBs in the NFL.

Go through and make a list, one by one. I'll be curious to see where you homers end up with. Rodgers is not top 10 on mine, thats for sure.

Hey moron, this isnt fantasy football. If you don't like our quarterback, maybe we need to change. Would you like someone from our bench to start instead? How about the draft? Somebody there we should take?
I'll answer the question. Partial wants TT to go down to mississippi, beg and grovel at Favre's feet and get him to come back to GB. Thats all this is a bout. Partial is so pissed at TT that he will stretch anything to bash Rodgers with and if his argument is blown to hell(like it has many times) he will change the argument. If that doesn't work, he wants TT to tradde for the greatness that is Vince Young, even though VY is a basket case right now.

Seriously though, I wouldn't take anyy of those even if the Packers didn't have Rodgers.

[Gunakor]

Go through and rank the quarterbacks. I'm not saying his stats aren't the 6th best... but really, are you telling me there are only 5 quarterbacks in the league you'd rather have above him?

There are only 5-6 upper echelon QBs in the NFL. There are about 20 that are average. There are about 5-6 lower echelon QBs in the NFL.

Go through and make a list, one by one. I'll be curious to see where you homers end up with. Rodgers is not top 10 on mine, thats for sure.

Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady (if healthy), Carson Palmer (if healthy), Phillip Rivers, and Ben Rothlisberger I'd surely put ahead of Rodgers at this point. Maybe Kurt Warner, but who knows what Rodgers would look like with a go to guy like Larry Fitzgerald to throw to. That guy can make any QB look good.

Am I missing anyone?I dsagree about Palmer. I really don't think is much of anything anymore and Rodgers is better than Palmer right now. so my list.

Manning
Brady(if healthy)
Brees
Rivers
Rothliesberger
Rodgers

Rodgers good enough for 6th on my list.

Palmer's been hurt too though. If he can get healthy again I think he's a damn good QB.

I'd put Rodgers 7th or 8th.

[sharpe1027]

Rodgers is average.

That's just loopy. Crazy talk. Unsupportable.

Stop picking on Partial. Somebody here had to fill Tank's role.

How's it not? When was the last time a stud quarterback with a team that went to the championship the previous year went 6-10?!?

Our offense went from world class to inept. That is an undeniable fact. We were beyond awful in the second half.

I'm not like Tank. Anyone who is anyone who watches football can go through a list of quarterbacks, and Rodgers typically falls at best 10th or so in the league (upper end of AVERAGE) to 20th (lower end of average).

Bob McGinn interviewed professional scouts (better at ranking players than your common board poster) and they ranked him on average 19th in the league. That is BELOW average. I think he is better than that, and probably around 14th best.

14th best in the league is average.

Seriously, some of you guys evidently don't understand what average is. I would like everyone here to rank the top 20 quarterbacks in the NFL in order of their ability to win a crucial game today against a top-tier team. I suspect Rodgers will be ranked about 12th.

12th is average!

I feel like someone keeps moving the target in mid shot.

So by average you meant anything other than the top, what... 5 QBs? So, by that logic, everyone except the bottom 5 QBs are average. Almost the entire league is average!

A word of advice, just admit when you overstate your position. It doesn't make you less of a man. :lol:

[KYPack]

[?I dsagree about Palmer. I really don't think is much of anything anymore and Rodgers is better than Palmer right now. so my list.

Manning
Brady(if healthy)
Brees
Rivers
Rothliesberger
Rodgers

Rodgers good enough for 6th on my list.[/quote]

Palmer's been hurt too though. If he can get healthy again I think he's a damn good QB.

I'd put Rodgers 7th or 8th.[/quote]

I'd put Rodgers about the same in the ranking you show. Palmer is still really good, he just has a shit line and has the elbow troubles. You can drop him off if his elbow is still a problem. I'd put Rodgers in this list and include the other "Young Guns"

I'd include Cutler, Matt Ryan, Matt Cassel (I know the Boston line-up helped him like crazy, but he did some great things) in the top QB group.

Yeah, Partial is ate up about Favre/Rodgers and not looking at things objectively. That keeps the forum lively.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I like ARod and feel he's a very solid QB, but as far as rankings go I'm not ranking him or any other first year starter right now. I'm going to hold off on any rankings on a QB until he has at least 2 seasons of starting under his belt. Same applies to Ryan and Flacco.

[Zool]

I like ARod and feel he's a very solid QB, but as far as rankings go I'm not ranking him or any other first year starter right now. I'm going to hold off on any rankings on a QB until he has at least 2 seasons of starting under his belt. Same applies to Ryan and Flacco.

Something sensical! YAY!

[Partial]

So, so far we've seen 6th. 6th would be ranked above average in the upper echelon.

We've also seen 8th. 8th ranks as average as he is then in the 25-50% mark.

This has nothing to do with Favre. I don't see why people cannot see that. I rank Rodgers around 14th personally. However, I could see people putting him at about 10-12, and that puts him firmly in the AVERAGE group, as I have said all along.

[Lurker64]

However, I could see people putting him at about 10-12, and that puts him firmly in the AVERAGE group, as I have said all along.

Wait, if he's in the 10-12 range, he could in theory be #10, in which case he would be "top 10." I'm not sure how you can be both "top 10" and "average" in the NFL.

I mean, the 10th ranked defense is a good defense, it's not an average defense.

Plus, if you have the 10th best QB in the league, there are 22 teams that wish they had a QB as good as yours, that's average? I'd think "average" would be about the #16 QB.

I'm not sure in what way #10 out of 32 can be "average", and that's even ignoring the fact that there are teams with a bad situation at the QB position who have multiple starting QBs, so Rodgers is more like 10 out of 40, which would put him in the highest quartile, which is pretty good.

[Partial]

However, I could see people putting him at about 10-12, and that puts him firmly in the AVERAGE group, as I have said all along.

Wait, if he's in the 10-12 range, he could in theory be #10, in which case he would be "top 10." I'm not sure how you can be both "top 10" and "average" in the NFL.

I mean, the 10th ranked defense is a good defense, it's not an average defense.

Plus, if you have the 10th best QB in the league, there are 22 teams that wish they had a QB as good as yours, that's average? I'd think "average" would be about the #16 QB.

I'm not sure in what way #10 out of 32 can be "average", and that's even ignoring the fact that there are teams with a bad situation at the QB position who have multiple starting QBs, so Rodgers is more like 10 out of 40, which would put him in the highest quartile, which is pretty good.

Since when is being the 33-36% better than average? 25-75 is average sir.

I think the misconception here is that most people seem to think the quarterbacks I consider as bad, they consider as average.

Like I said, there are 7-8 good quarterbacks, 14-16 average, 7-8 bad.

One could even say: 6 good, 6 above average, 6 average, 6 below average, 6 bad, if you want, than Rodgers is slightly into the above average group, as I have said all along. He's average to slightly above average.

Hmmmm, maybe that braniac mathematician Partial is reasonably intelligent after all :oops:

[Bossman641]

So, so far we've seen 6th. 6th would be ranked above average in the upper echelon.

We've also seen 8th. 8th ranks as average as he is then in the 25-50% mark.

This has nothing to do with Favre. I don't see why people cannot see that. I rank Rodgers around 14th personally. However, I could see people putting him at about 10-12, and that puts him firmly in the AVERAGE group, as I have said all along.

WTF are you talking about. Let's make it an even 40 QB's to take into account the number of teams that use 2 QB's (such as the Tenn Titans and the great Vince Young :oops: ). You're then going to tell me that anyone not ranked in the top 5 out of 40 is average? That's ridiculous.

You overstated your position. You've been called out. You wanna break down 40 QB's into like 3-4 categories??

I'd say there would have to be about 7-8 levels to realistically rate 40 QB's, not 3.

[Partial]

What? I said there is good, above average-average-below average(I lumped these into one originally), and bad.

I don't understand what is so hard to figure out..

[Bossman641]

What? I said there is good, above average-average-below average(I lumped these into one originally), and bad.

I don't understand what is so hard to figure out..


How do you know? Rodgers is average, he's not special. Before he started, he looked good in one game. Clemens hasn't played much either, so it's still up in there air. That loco to right a guy off before he's had a chance.


14th best in the league is average.

Seriously, some of you guys evidently don't understand what average is. I would like everyone here to rank the top 20 quarterbacks in the NFL in order of their ability to win a crucial game today against a top-tier team. I suspect Rodgers will be ranked about 12th.

12th is average!


There are only 5-6 upper echelon QBs in the NFL. There are about 20 that are average. There are about 5-6 lower echelon QBs in the NFL.

Nothing like a good backtrack eh Partial? First Arod was average because he wasn't a top 5 QB. Now that you realize how ridiculous that was you've split average into 3 separate categories.

[Lurker64]

Since when is being the 33-36% better than average? 25-75 is average sir.

I think the misconception here is that most people seem to think the quarterbacks I consider as bad, they consider as average.

Like I said, there are 7-8 good quarterbacks, 14-16 average, 7-8 bad.

Well, what's "average" really depends on context. If you're betting dollar bills on coinflips your average winnings will be around $0. If you give a math test to a bunch of high school students the average might be about 75%. If you give a really hard test though, the average might be significantly lower.

In terms of NFL QBs though? It seems that you've mostly "already reached your conclusion" and are trying to come up with numbers to prove it. Let's look at some actual numbers here.

Of the 32 NFL QBs who averaged 14 passes/game (the NFL's standard for qualifying for statistical records) the average passing yardage was 3132.375 (median 3241.5) with a standard deviation of 872.2638201. Aaron Rodgers threw for 4,038 yards, which is more than one standard deviation from the mean, which gives us a reasonably high degree of confidence as to "not being average" (the average QBs would at least be within one standard deviation of the mean.)

For TD passes, the mean was 17.84 and the median was 15.5 with a standard deviation of 7.22. Again, Rodgers's 28 TD passes puts him more than one standard deviation away from the mean, which strongly points to "not average."

For QB rating, the mean was 82.28 and the median was 85.7. The standard deviation was 15.78, so Aaron Rodger's 93.8 does lie within one standard deviation of the mean, but when you look at the statistics you see that only Phillip Rivers had a QB rating (on the high end) more than one standard deviation from the mean, and you would at least consider the top 5 to be above average, and Rodgers landing out of the top 5 by 1.2 points probably makes him above average as well.

So really, Partial, you have no statistical leg to stand on for your "Aaron Rodgers is average" claim, since the important statistics indicate that he was significantly above average (at least in yards and touchdowns).

If you want to base your claims that Rodgers is average on "having watched him" feel free to do so, but you're unlikely to convince anybody with this opinion since many others have watched him and reached different conclusions.

[channtheman]

What? I said there is good, above average-average-below average(I lumped these into one originally), and bad.

I don't understand what is so hard to figure out..

Uhh, maybe because you lumped 3 groups into one originally? It makes it a lot harder for people to see you as reasonable. If you had said originally that you don't think Aaron Rodgers is the best but he is above average no one would argue with you.

You've done this before with how you said our offense was the WHOLE problem. You later changed your stance to say that defense has failed at the end of the games but the offense hasn't been amazing. If you would just say what you really mean no one would have a problem. You just have to stop saying things like a dumbass and putting such a bad spin on everything Rodgers.

[sharpe1027]

What? I said there is good, above average-average-below average(I lumped these into one originally), and bad.

I don't understand what is so hard to figure out..

Who cares how you slice it. Did you forget the context of your original statement already? You were arguing that the Jets were just as solidified at QB as the Packers because Rodgers was only average. Presumably that means that Clemens was also "average." The ranges between "average" QBs under your definition is HUGE. So large that being "average" is virtually meaningless to your original statement. You current argument about what "average" means completely undermines your original statement, nice try buddy.

[Zool]

Waffle

[Cheesehead Craig]

Waffle
I love waffles...

http://www.bettycrocker.com/images/beautyshots/r35315fp.jpg

[Zool]

I believe the urbandictionary sums it up best.

Waffle

To talk unendingly, with no point to your conversation about totally idiotic things. Spamming on chat rooms is a case of waffling.

[KYPack]

If you're betting dollar bills on coinflips your average winnings will be around $0.

Good idea.

Back to the coin flips.

[vince]

Like I said, there are 7-8 good quarterbacks, 14-16 average, 7-8 bad.
...
Hmmmm, maybe that braniac mathematician Partial is reasonably intelligent after all :oops:
Setting aside for a moment your propensity to pull shit completely out of your ass when coming up with your magic formulas for determining who you think ranks where, the premise of your argument is nothing short of ridiculous. To claim that the #8 or #9 ranked anything is equal to the #24 or #25 ranked anything in this league is an absolute joke.

In this case, that means you're claiming that Tony Romo's 91.4 QB Rating, 3448 yards, 26 TD's and 14 INT's are equal to Kyle Orton's 79.6 QB rating, 2972 yds., 18 TD's and 12 INT's.

You can throw all the bell curves, standard deviations and algorithms in the world at it, and you will still just simply be WRONG in that analysis.

Players and coaches ranking 8th in stuff get big contracts, while players and coaches ranking 24th and 25th in stuff get fired. Slight difference there.

[Bossman641]

Like I said, there are 7-8 good quarterbacks, 14-16 average, 7-8 bad.
...
Hmmmm, maybe that braniac mathematician Partial is reasonably intelligent after all :oops:
Setting aside for a moment your propensity to pull shit completely out of your ass when coming up with your magic formulas for determining who you think ranks where, it is nothing short of ridiculous to claim that the # 8 ranked anything is equal to the #25 ranked anything in this league.

In this case, that means you're claiming that Tony Romo's 91.4 QB Rating, 3448 yards, 26 TD's and 14 INT's are equal to Kyle Orton's 79.6 QB rating, 2972 yds., 18 TD's and 12 INT's.

You can throw all the bell curves, standard deviations and algorithms in the world at it, and you will still just simply be WRONG in that analysis.

Players and coaches ranking 8th in stuff get big contracts, while players and coaches ranking 24th and 25th in stuff get fired. Slight difference there.

But what if I told you there were some group of miscellanous scouts that ranked Rodgers 19th in the league? Isn't that something you'd be interested in?? Surely that would trump everything else right???

[Lurker64]

Setting aside for a moment your propensity to pull shit completely out of your ass when coming up with your magic formulas for determining who you think ranks where, it is nothing short of ridiculous to claim that the # 8 ranked anything is equal to the #25 ranked anything in this league.

In this case, that means you're claiming that Tony Romo's 91.4 QB Rating, 3448 yards, 26 TD's and 14 INT's are equal to Kyle Orton's 79.6 QB rating, 2972 yds., 18 TD's and 12 INT's.

You can throw all the bell curves, standard deviations and algorithms in the world at it, and you will still just simply be WRONG in that analysis.

Players and coaches ranking 8th in stuff get big contracts, while players and coaches ranking 24th and 25th in stuff get fired. Slight difference there.

Yeah, the actual important fact is that it doesn't really matter "how far you are from the statistical mean", what matters is that you're on the right side of it.

Regardless of which fuzzy hedge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuzzy_logic) you want to throw Rodgers into (above average, slightly above average, probably above average, mostly above average, somewhat above average, etc.) Rodgers is clearly on the right side of the platonic "average quarterback", and that's the place you want your guy to be.

Really, no team looks at things like "there are only three elite QBs in the league, our guy isn't one of the three elite QBs so we'd better get rid of him in hopes we get someone better." The analysis is always "Is there a guy out there that we can get who would be better than our current QB? Would the cost of acquisition be justified in the difference in quality?" The fact of the matter is that there's nobody out there we can get (without making some ridiculous offer, like 19 first round draft picks for Peyton Manning), who would be better than Aaron Rodgers. There's nobody in this draft, there's nobody in the next draft, and no free agents coming any time soon that are likely to be better.

So it doesn't really matter whether or not seven teams out there have better quarterbacks. What matters is that we've got a significantly above average QB, who is in the "getting better" part of his career, and he can run a good offense offense pretty effectively. I mean, 12 teams make the playoffs anyway every year, and they're not always the 12 teams with the 12 best QBs, and at least 5 of those teams (by Pigeonhole) would fall in the "average" tier d'apres Partial.

[SnakeLH2006]

Wow..Great conspiracy theories abound.

Here's Snake's Take from the ESPN article and interview:

-It's obvious Brett doesn't want to play for another coach he doesn't know in New York (Mangini is gone).
-Brett said he can still play.
-Brett confirmed the training camp itch syndrome.
-Brett said he wanted to play in the division to stick it the Pack....again.
-Brett is DAMN entertaining on the field and off. :D
-Brett is only 1 game away from setting the all-time consecutive starting record of ANY position in NFL history (L. Marshall DE Vikings at 270 reg. season games).
-Brett likes the spotlight, sounds kinda scared baking pies with Deanna and running weedwhackers around the Hattiesburg home 12 hours a day.
-Brett has lied before about this stuff to get his way (didn't work so well in 2008).
-Brett hates TT.
-If released, he can sign for any team/any money. I think he'd take the minimum for 1 year at Minn.

All very entertaining and I'll believe he's done when they drag him off the field. Don't get me wrong, I love Brett, but this stuff is must-see TV and he knows it. I feel he has a vendetta to "prove" against TT and he will do whatever to scratch that itch.

More power to him as I enjoyed watching him play with the Jets this last year. And doesn't that speak volumes that he was wearing a JETS CAP during this interview today!! WTF! LMAO!

Good stuff. Keep it going Brett as this is almost as entertaining as watching the Pack play. I say let him play, as I don't see the Jets wanting a fiasco like the Pack last year, and see them releasing him. I don't think we've seen the last of Brett yet.

[crosbiegrad]

I agree that Rodgers is definetely above average. Partial, you mentioned that you think Rodgers ranks around 14th in the league, who are those other 13 who are clearly better than Rodgers? I know I cant think of 13 other QB's I'd rather have right now.

[Fritz]

Since when is being the 33-36% better than average? 25-75 is average sir.

I think the misconception here is that most people seem to think the quarterbacks I consider as bad, they consider as average.

Like I said, there are 7-8 good quarterbacks, 14-16 average, 7-8 bad.

Well, what's "average" really depends on context. If you're betting dollar bills on coinflips your average winnings will be around $0. If you give a math test to a bunch of high school students the average might be about 75%. If you give a really hard test though, the average might be significantly lower.

In terms of NFL QBs though? It seems that you've mostly "already reached your conclusion" and are trying to come up with numbers to prove it. Let's look at some actual numbers here.

Of the 32 NFL QBs who averaged 14 passes/game (the NFL's standard for qualifying for statistical records) the average passing yardage was 3132.375 (median 3241.5) with a standard deviation of 872.2638201. Aaron Rodgers threw for 4,038 yards, which is more than one standard deviation from the mean, which gives us a reasonably high degree of confidence as to "not being average" (the average QBs would at least be within one standard deviation of the mean.)

For TD passes, the mean was 17.84 and the median was 15.5 with a standard deviation of 7.22. Again, Rodgers's 28 TD passes puts him more than one standard deviation away from the mean, which strongly points to "not average."

For QB rating, the mean was 82.28 and the median was 85.7. The standard deviation was 15.78, so Aaron Rodger's 93.8 does lie within one standard deviation of the mean, but when you look at the statistics you see that only Phillip Rivers had a QB rating (on the high end) more than one standard deviation from the mean, and you would at least consider the top 5 to be above average, and Rodgers landing out of the top 5 by 1.2 points probably makes him above average as well.

So really, Partial, you have no statistical leg to stand on for your "Aaron Rodgers is average" claim, since the important statistics indicate that he was significantly above average (at least in yards and touchdowns).

If you want to base your claims that Rodgers is average on "having watched him" feel free to do so, but you're unlikely to convince anybody with this opinion since many others have watched him and reached different conclusions.

Dang, Lurker. You're smart.

[sheepshead]

However, I could see people putting him at about 10-12, and that puts him firmly in the AVERAGE group, as I have said all along.

Wait, if he's in the 10-12 range, he could in theory be #10, in which case he would be "top 10." I'm not sure how you can be both "top 10" and "average" in the NFL.

I mean, the 10th ranked defense is a good defense, it's not an average defense.

Plus, if you have the 10th best QB in the league, there are 22 teams that wish they had a QB as good as yours, that's average? I'd think "average" would be about the #16 QB.

I'm not sure in what way #10 out of 32 can be "average", and that's even ignoring the fact that there are teams with a bad situation at the QB position who have multiple starting QBs, so Rodgers is more like 10 out of 40, which would put him in the highest quartile, which is pretty good.

Since when is being the 33-36% better than average? 25-75 is average sir.

I think the misconception here is that most people seem to think the quarterbacks I consider as bad, they consider as average.

Like I said, there are 7-8 good quarterbacks, 14-16 average, 7-8 bad.

One could even say: 6 good, 6 above average, 6 average, 6 below average, 6 bad, if you want, than Rodgers is slightly into the above average group, as I have said all along. He's average to slightly above average.

Hmmmm, maybe that braniac mathematician Partial is reasonably intelligent after all :oops:

You are an idiot. Anyone that has to continue to tell us "I'm this" and "I'm that" most times, isn't. You are "Tank Lite", but equally as annoying.

[The Leaper]

I knew I should not have started reading NFL forums after my offseason hiatus...my head hurts.

[run pMc]

I think NYJ can't keep him witout blowing up their cap.
If he wants to come back, they'll release him. If that happens, MIN would be the most likely landing spot.

That's a couple of if's...but I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen.

As for the GM gentlemen's club comments, I don't think Tannenbaum would get roasted for trying to keep a team intact. They'll draft/sign somebody else like Byron Leftwich. On the flip side of that, I do think if MIN signed Favre that MIN would cause a stir, since I think it took a while for some to get over the "poison pill" nonsense with Hutchinson.

All that said, if Favre changes his mind in June and signs with MIN, don't you think he's gonna have another flame out in December? Throwing to the high school team isn't the same as having a trainer living with you...plus he has to deal with an injured arm.

Personally, I'd love to see him stay retired and get a gig like Siragusa as a in-game sidelline reporter. That'd be pretty funny.

The Rodgers as average QB discussion seems off topic, but I think he's better than at least half of the starters last year...which makes him above average. Statistically, he's well above average. IMO he was the best QB in the NFCN, and that alone counts for something. As long as he stays healthy, I think the future looks good at QB.