combine thread

[red]

anyone else addicted to this?

o-linemen are working out right now

the big story is andre smith going awol from the whole thing after announcing he wasn't going to work out do to him being out of shape

[rbaloha1]

anyone else addicted to this?

o-linemen are working out right now

the big story is andre smith going awol from the whole thing after announcing he wasn't going to work out do to him being out of shape

Wow. Maybe he drops to #9. Its been downhill for Smith since being suspended from the Sugar Bowl.

Worth the "gamble" at #9.

[red]

he's got the talent

but now you have to ask if he's a head case

that would be a very tough call if he falls to #9. you could be getting a future superstar LT. or you could be getting a guy that doesn't show up for camps and cries when coaches yell at him and calls it quits after 1 year to go smoke weed in india

[digitaldean]

Andre Smith has not only shot himself in the foot but in the ass to boot.

Getting kicked off 'Bama only increased the necessity to wow people at the combine. Now he gets fat and out of shape (AND goes AWOL) puts even more hurdles between him and a larger payday.

Unless he does an about-face and quickly, he does NOT merit the #9 overall pick. This is a glorified job interview. Ace this and you are set for LIFE financially, because you will be a top 10 pick.

How pathetic is that?!

[bobblehead]

yea, and thinning the field at LT hurts my prediction and the packers future...now I really hate the guy.

[Waldo]

Thus far....Wood (Louisville C) looks great. TT loves Louisville lineman, he better than Spitz or Breno.

Jared Cook (South Carolina TE) :shock:
A 4.42 40, plus the best jumper by a mile. The guy personally shredded the UGa defense when Ga played SC. They had no answer to him except SC's less then stellar QB, even that didn't matter a whole lot. Kid definitely made himself several million $$'s and probably moved himself into the first rd today.

[red]

cooks gonna fly up draft boards after today

and pettigrew will probably fall after running a 4.87

[The Shadow]

Good. I hope he becomes the annual "SUPER FREAK", jumps up into the top 8, and helps the Packers get B.J. the nose tackle.

[Lurker64]

Apparently it's been a nightmarish weekend for Andre Smith, by some accounts in his interviews:


e’s been inappropriately dressed and has been giving a number of conflicting statements as to why he was choosing not to workout at the combine. Several offensive line coaches have already suggested Smith be removed from their team’s draft board and there’s no doubt his draft stock is falling.

Link (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/nfl/02/21/scouting.combine/index.html?eref=si_nfl)

I wonder if we're going to take him off our board.

[red]

Apparently it's been a nightmarish weekend for Andre Smith, by some accounts in his interviews:


e’s been inappropriately dressed and has been giving a number of conflicting statements as to why he was choosing not to workout at the combine. Several offensive line coaches have already suggested Smith be removed from their team’s draft board and there’s no doubt his draft stock is falling.

Link (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/nfl/02/21/scouting.combine/index.html?eref=si_nfl)

I wonder if we're going to take him off our board.

this guy just had all the red flags in the world go up

TT can't afford to draft a turd here, not after the harrell bust 2 years ago. he needs to make sure he hits a winner

man, i wonder just how much the guy has managed to lose in 2 days? some thought he could be the #1 pick, now teams are taking him right off their boards.

maybe 20-30 million just in bonus money?

[Harlan Huckleby]

P.J. Hill weighed-in at 222 for the combine.

He played the bowl game at close to 250.

I think PJ is a better runner than people think. Maybe he is too slow for the NFL, we'll see, but I think he is a football player. Much quicker than dopes like Leaper say. Sorry Leaper.

[rbaloha1]

Change mind -- forget A. Smith. Bummer as one less marquee player is potentially available for the Packers.

[digitaldean]

man, i wonder just how much the guy has managed to lose in 2 days? some thought he could be the #1 pick, now teams are taking him right off their boards.

maybe 20-30 million just in bonus money?

He would have blown a lot less in a bad weekend in Vegas.

No sympathy for this putz. He had a golden opportunity and threw it away.

Someone will pick him, just for a lot, lot less money.

[SnakeLH2006]

P.J. Hill weighed-in at 222 for the combine.

He played the bowl game at close to 250.

I think PJ is a better runner than people think. Maybe he is too slow for the NFL, we'll see, but I think he is a football player. Much quicker than dopes like Leaper say. Sorry Leaper.

PJ always has been solid but really Snake gets the feeling of another Ron Dayne. Too bad Dayne didn't make it big as I was a huge UW fan of him, but whatever.

PJ's 40 times now (don't know) but were 4.45 or so out of high school when we got him, and with big B. Jacobs doing well, and a fat new contract, it may work wonders for him as a big back in the NFL....but 222 Dayumm!!! I would like to see a pic of him that skinny. You can tell he's doing whatever to get the numbers and more power to him.

Bottom line: Snake would much rather have a BJ than a PJ. Let's hope TT would like a BJ too, as an all-star BJ would make many Rats happy, no?? 8-) :lol:

[bigcoz75]

Some unbelievable 40 times run this year. Wide outs:
Knox 4.25
Butler 4.26
Wallace 4.28
HB 4.29
Thomas 4.31
Underwood 4.32
McKinley 4.33
Murphy 4.33
Ogletree 4.37
Harvin 4.37

[PackerPro42]

Some unbelievable 40 times run this year. Wide outs:
Knox 4.25
Butler 4.26
Wallace 4.28
HB 4.29
Thomas 4.31
Underwood 4.32
McKinley 4.33
Murphy 4.33
Ogletree 4.37
Harvin 4.37

Heyward-Bey ran a sub 4.3? That's crazy. He's going to be a stud.

It's kind of funny because McShay was talking about how the CB prototype would have to change because of all these big WR coming out, but he never mentioned the speed.

[mission]

Some unbelievable 40 times run this year. Wide outs:
Knox 4.25
Butler 4.26
Wallace 4.28
HB 4.29
Thomas 4.31
Underwood 4.32
McKinley 4.33
Murphy 4.33
Ogletree 4.37
Harvin 4.37

I'm not sure where ya got those numbers, but NFL.com has them as:

Former Maryland WR Darrius Heyward-Bey posted the fastest official time Sunday at 4.30. His time is tied for the second-fastest mark among receivers since 2000, trailing only the 4.28 posted by Hampton’s Jerome Mathis in 2005. Kansas State’s Yamon Figurs also had a 4.30 time in 2007.

Five receivers posted sub-4.40 marks Sunday. Impressive.

Mississippi’s Mike Wallace had the second-fastest time at 4.33, followed closely by Abilene Christian’s Johnny Knox (4.34). Penn State’s Deon Butler (4.38) and Arizona’s Mike Thomas (4.40) rounded out the top five.

http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/02/22/heyward-bey-fastest-among-impressive-receivers/

[bigcoz75]

I posted them as they ran. I guess they were the unofficial times. Still some fast times ran by the WRs today not so much the RBs.

[mission]

I posted them as they ran. I guess they were the unofficial times. Still some fast times ran by the WRs today not so much the RBs.

Yeah, the consensus is that this the fastest group of WRs coming out ever. Moreno at 4.61 though? Eeek...

[bigcoz75]

Too bad for Moreno. Coming in he thought he'd be in the 4.4s. Thing is with the RBs running like they did no one really should be moving in their projections. No real standouts to move up and no meltdowns to knock them back. Just consistent slow times. Time to focus on pro days.

[bigcoz75]

My guy Terrence Taylor NT out of Michigan leading the defense in the bench with 37 reps.

Top performers

D-Line

Taylor, Terrance-37
Miller, Roy-------36
Veikune, David---35
Hood, Evander---34
Raji, B.J.--------33
Brace, Ron------32
Grady, Adrian----31
Magee, Alex-----30
Mitchell, Khalif---30

LBs

Orakpo, Brian----31
Cushing, Brian---30
Freeman, Marcus-30
Maiava, Kaluka---30
Felder, Anthony--28
McKillop, Scott---27
McKenzie, Tyrone 27
Brinkley, Jasper--26
Curry, Aaron-----25
Casillas, Jonathan 24
Robinson, Lee----24

[rbaloha1]

I posted them as they ran. I guess they were the unofficial times. Still some fast times ran by the WRs today not so much the RBs.

Yeah, the consensus is that this the fastest group of WRs coming out ever. Moreno at 4.61 though? Eeek...

The poor 40 time is hurting Moreno's draft slot thus millions. Moreno plays fast and is instinctive. Recall Emmit Smith had a poor 40 time. Moreno's running style is smilar to Smith.

Someone is going to get a steal.

[rbaloha1]

My guy Terrence Taylor NT out of Michigan leading the defense in the bench with 37 reps.

Top performers

D-Line

Taylor, Terrance-37
Miller, Roy-------36
Veikune, David---35
Hood, Evander---34
Raji, B.J.--------33
Brace, Ron------32
Grady, Adrian----31
Magee, Alex-----30
Mitchell, Khalif---30

LBs

Orakpo, Brian----31
Cushing, Brian---30
Freeman, Marcus-30
Maiava, Kaluka---30
Felder, Anthony--28
McKillop, Scott---27
McKenzie, Tyrone 27
Brinkley, Jasper--26
Curry, Aaron-----25
Casillas, Jonathan 24
Robinson, Lee----24

Maiava was over shadowed at USC but is excellent value as a 4th - 6th round pick. Special teams standout and linebacker on passing downs.

Veikune is similar to Travis Laboy of the Cardinals and would make an excellent late second - early third.

[bigcoz75]

I posted them as they ran. I guess they were the unofficial times. Still some fast times ran by the WRs today not so much the RBs.

Yeah, the consensus is that this the fastest group of WRs coming out ever. Moreno at 4.61 though? Eeek...

The poor 40 time is hurting Moreno's draft slot thus millions. Moreno plays fast and is instinctive. Recall Emmit Smith had a poor 40 time. Moreno's running style is smilar to Smith.

Someone is going to get a steal.

I like what Marshal Faulk said about Moreno after he ran a 4.54-4.66...

He says that's a 4.5 for 4 quarters. I completely agree, and I think anyone who thinks that .1 second means he will not make a good RB is a fool. Not just Moreno, but the 40 time is my least favorite drill. It's the "sexy" drill where players make their money, but there is so much more to base a prospect on.

[rbaloha1]

I posted them as they ran. I guess they were the unofficial times. Still some fast times ran by the WRs today not so much the RBs.

Yeah, the consensus is that this the fastest group of WRs coming out ever. Moreno at 4.61 though? Eeek...

The poor 40 time is hurting Moreno's draft slot thus millions. Moreno plays fast and is instinctive. Recall Emmit Smith had a poor 40 time. Moreno's running style is smilar to Smith.

Someone is going to get a steal.

I like what Marshal Faulk said about Moreno after he ran a 4.54-4.66...

He says that's a 4.5 for 4 quarters. I completely agree, and I think anyone who thinks that .1 second means he will not make a good RB is a fool. Not just Moreno, but the 40 time is my least favorite drill. It's the "sexy" drill where players make their money, but there is so much more to base a prospect on.

True. Moreno plays at the same speed from the first - fourth quarters. Acrobatic and improved pass receiving and blocking. Someone is going to be thrilled.

[mission]

Definitely. Moreno looks a step ahead of everyone while he's running. His vision, anticipation and agility remind me a lot of (gasp) ... #20. :wink:

[TennesseePackerBacker]

Definitely. Moreno looks a step ahead of everyone while he's running. His vision, anticipation and agility remind me a lot of (gasp) ... #20. :wink:

I gotta go with Emmitt Smith, noone has resembled Barry Sanders in his running style at all. What Barry did with no semblance of an offensive line was pretty staggering.

[Lurker64]

Ian Johnson had a really quiet, really good day today.

4.46 40-yard dash (second among RBs, .01 seconds off the leader)
6.93 3-cone drill (eighth among RBs, .11 seconds off the leader)
4.18 20 yard shuttle (fourth among RBs, .1 seconds off the leader)
11.63 60 yard shuttle (fourth among RBs, .33 seconds off of the leader)
26 reps on the bench (fifth among RBs, 4 off the leader, more than Wells and Moreno).

Measures 5'11", 212 pounds. Broke Marshall Faulk's TD record in the WAC. Solid, team first, high character guy with a ton of production and some obvious physical ability. Definitely a potential pick, since Thompson seems to like the Boise state guys (he's one of the only GMs in the league to have picked up two guys from Boise.) Probably a guy who can be had in the 4th or the 5th.

[MJZiggy]

You guys do realize that you're going to do all of this analysis, argue it back and forth for weeks, and when draft day rolls around they're going to call out the #9 pick and you're all going to yell, "WHO??"

I'm just saying....

[mission]

Definitely. Moreno looks a step ahead of everyone while he's running. His vision, anticipation and agility remind me a lot of (gasp) ... #20. :wink:

I gotta go with Emmitt Smith, noone has resembled Barry Sanders in his running style at all. What Barry did with no semblance of an offensive line was pretty staggering.

That's probably more accurate. Moreno is definitely more of a straight ahead kind of guy but he does do a lot of "WOW" things. Unlike our own Ryan Grant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue6lflyI6wk&feature=related

Around 3:00 he pulls off some stupid Barry ish moves, but yeah, after watching this video, I see more Emmitt.

[mission]

I'm just saying....

And you're probably right. We gotta do something to pass the time! :D

[Joemailman]

Ian Johnson had a really quiet, really good day today.

4.46 40-yard dash (second among RBs, .01 seconds off the leader)
6.93 3-cone drill (eighth among RBs, .11 seconds off the leader)
4.18 20 yard shuttle (fourth among RBs, .1 seconds off the leader)
11.63 60 yard shuttle (fourth among RBs, .33 seconds off of the leader)
26 reps on the bench (fifth among RBs, 4 off the leader, more than Wells and Moreno).

Measures 5'11", 212 pounds. Broke Marshall Faulk's TD record in the WAC. Solid, team first, high character guy with a ton of production and some obvious physical ability. Definitely a potential pick, since Thompson seems to like the Boise state guys (he's one of the only GMs in the league to have picked up two guys from Boise.) Probably a guy who can be had in the 4th or the 5th.

Problem is, he's been hurt a lot since his fantastic sophomore season. It'll be interesting to see how soon someone takes a chance on him.
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/ian-johnson?id=80654#player-profile-tab-set-1:player-profile-tab-analysis

[oregonpackfan]

P.J. Hill weighed-in at 222 for the combine.

He played the bowl game at close to 250.

I think PJ is a better runner than people think. Maybe he is too slow for the NFL, we'll see, but I think he is a football player. Much quicker than dopes like Leaper say. Sorry Leaper.

P.J. Hill at 222 is a shocker to me as well. I still believe that if Hill is going to make it in the NFL it will be as a fullback rather than as a tailback. I just don't think he has the speed or the shiftiness to make it as a tailback.

[oregonpackfan]

You guys do realize that you're going to do all of this analysis, argue it back and forth for weeks, and when draft day rolls around they're going to call out the #9 pick and you're all going to yell, "WHO??"

I'm just saying....

MJ WHO?! :)

[Fritz]

Greg Bedard posted just before he left Indy that the Packers really, really should take Andre Smith right off the draft board. If they pick him at #9 after all the stuff that's been said - and I expect there's more that hasn't been published (as Bedard wrote, "Trust me on this") - I will simply begin to cry.

But based on TT's history, he wouldn't do that.

Don't start with that kinda crap now, TT.

[3irty1]

Brian Orakpo is an animal.

[red]

Brian Orakpo is an animal.

raks moving up and i think maybin will be moving down after their 40 times

[Waldo]

40 isn't that important, as long as it's "good enough" (4.80)
Same with the bench, doesn't matter a whole lot unless they can't put it up 20 times.

The vert is the one to watch. The studs can jump high.

Connor Barwin's stock currently has several solid rocket boosters sending it upwards, and Everette Brown has an anchor attached to his.

Barwin is the #1 3-4 OLB IMO, Brown is a DND.

[red]

raji is looking good today

just looking on paper though waldo, what looks much more impressive

a guy who's 265 and runs a 4.6

or a guy thats 250 and runs a 4.8

what did brown do? i missed him

[Waldo]

raji is looking good today

just looking on paper though waldo, what looks much more impressive

a guy who's 265 and runs a 4.6

or a guy thats 250 and runs a 4.8

what did brown do? i missed him

He jumped 31.5". Horrible. To be considered an elite talent I'd be looking for 37-38"+

[Waldo]

I've had a project going for a long time, collecting the measurables of guys, analyzing, and projecting performance. I've limited it in scope to the defensive front 7. I'm going to keep adding to this spreadsheet (updating from my working copy which is in Open Office, not Google docs).

Measurables Spreadsheet (http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=poxhBCF8P3dgokXcoWg2uMg)

To interpret the document:
The Master tab is just a big list of everyone with very little rhyme or reason to the order. I add stuff to that list before moving each into the correct category.

The Bench tab is a chart of the most commonly used formula to convert reps into peak, some sources list the guys strength as peak instead of 225 reps and I use that chart to convert.

Each position in either a 3-4 or 4-3 has its own tab.
Green = Elite
Yellow = Starter
Peach = Backup
Orange = Performance bust
Red = Injury bust
I listed on the right what the sort is for each page. Some pages I found failure trends and created blocks of them at the bottom. They are divided by a visible line, and the criteria for the failure block is listed to the right.

Draft is the guys from the current draft, there is almost no info as of yet.

The formulas:

KEI - Kirwan explosion index. Reps+Vert+Broad. A fairly raw # that just adds up the quantities. Developed by Pat Kirwan. Raw but effective.

40/SS - 40 time minus the short shuttle time. The greater the positive discrepancy, the better a player's change of direction ability is.

LPI - Leg Power Index. ((weight-50*(height-3))*Vert*Broad)/35000, a normalization of their jumps corrected for weight and height (slightly), 1 is good, making it possible to compare the jump of a 5'11" 300 lb guy to the jump of a 6'7" 240 lb guy and how much force their legs are generating. Not perfect, but a lot better than nothing.

API - Arm Power Index. (Arm length-16)*reps/500, a normalization of their bench reps for arm length. Again, 1 is good, representing how much power they can put into a punch. Not perfect, but a lot better than nothing.

OPI - Overall Power Index. (LPI+(API/2))/1.5, a normailization of the sum of the two indexes with the legs being twice as important as the arms. Yet again, not perfect, but better than nothing.

MA - Mass Acceleration Ability. (Weight*Weight/10yd split)/50000 or (Weight*Weight/40 time)/17500, not all guys have 10 yd split info, so the 40 has to suffice at times, generally the results are the same or very close, but the intent is to model the momentum they can rapidly generate (bullrushing power when putting their weight into it), so the 10 yd split is more accurate for the intent IMO, top end speed matters little. Very effective model for predicting DT eliteness.

[Waldo]

Some commentary:

3-4 OLB - The OPI sort seems quite good at modeling success. Heven't really identified any too slow/too weak threshholds to pull guys out of the primary sort yet.

3-4 DE - Limited data set, just did a basic OPI sort, need to work on the position more.

3-4 NT - Again, a fairly limited data set that I've been working to expand (not a lot of 3-4 NT's in the NFL though that came into the league in the last 6 years or so (workout data is near impossible to find before that)). But it appears thus far that running at least a 5.20 40 and/or a 8.0 3 cone is important for success. Separates the athletic big men from the just big men.

3-4 ILB - Vert is about the only sort that puts the busts on the bottom. "good football players" seem to be more important than most measurables.

4-3 DE - Eye popping results here. Bottom failure group are the slow pokes that couldn't run at least a 4.8 40 or 1.7 10. Middle failure group are the guys that couldn't put up 20 reps on the bench. Top group is everybody else sorted by OPI. Note that Mark Anderson is right on the too weak line, he and Jeremy Thompson are the only non-elites.

4-3 DT - Again, eye popping results. Failure abounds when they can't run at least a 1.75 10 or 5.10 40. Faster than that and they almost always make it. Sorted by MA clusters the elites at the top.

4-3 MLB - Almost no rhyme or reason, sorted by vert since it correlates somewhat, but "good football players" appear to be more important than any measurables.

4-3 OLB - 40/SS has a strong correlation. Not much point in playing a guy anywhere but SLB if his shuttle isn't at least 0.50 seconds faster than his 40, unless he is a straight line turbo, running a sub 1.55 10 yd split. Sorted by 40/SS

There are a lot of missing 3 cones....I added the column late and haven't gone back to find all the data yet.

[bigcoz75]

top official DL times
Sidbury, Jr., Lawrence 4.64
Barwin, Connor 4.66
Brown, Everette 4.73
Johnson, Michael 4.75
Sulak, Stryker 4.77
Brown, Cody 4.84
Butler, Victor 4.84
Veikune, David 4.87
Gilbert, Jarron 4.87

Orakpo is grouped with the LBers and ran a 4.70

[bigcoz75]

raji is looking good today

just looking on paper though waldo, what looks much more impressive

a guy who's 265 and runs a 4.6

or a guy thats 250 and runs a 4.8

what did brown do? i missed him

He jumped 31.5". Horrible. To be considered an elite talent I'd be looking for 37-38"+

Barwin, Connor 40.5
Johnson, Michael 38.5
Maybin, Aaron 38.0
Walker, Derek 37.5
Brown, Cody 36.5
English, Larry 36.0
Baker, Chris 35.5
Gilbert, Jarron 35.5
Sidbury, Jr., Lawrence 35.0

Orakpo, Brian 39.5

[HarveyWallbangers]

Measurables Spreadsheet (http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=poxhBCF8P3dgokXcoWg2uMg)

Good stuff. Hawk put up some good numbers.

4.59 40 (good)
1.56 10 (elite)
3.86 SS (elite)
40" vert (elite)
24 reps (decent)

[red]

that's some awesome stuff waldo

[bigcoz75]

UhOh Rey Rey

He pulled up hurt while running his first forty attempt. Looks like a hammy. Said he felt it pop while running hopes its just a sprain. Should be the end of his combine.

unofficial 4.81

[red]

orako pulled his too

[bigcoz75]

orako pulled his too

Didn't see that one. it was during the 3 cone right?

[red]

orako pulled his too

Didn't see that one. it was during the 3 cone right?

i didn't see it, i just read it happened during the drills

[Lurker64]

Now, I may not actually wish to be this cynical, but how many guys use the "hamstring tweak" as a "screw this, this isn't going well, I'm going to try again on my pro day" card.

Still, Maualuga and his fans have to be disappointed with the 4.83 and no other drills (I really wanted to see his 3-cone and shuttle numbers, because I was concerned with his CoD skills), but I suppose from his perspective it's not a bad idea to punt and run again on USC's notoriously fast track.

[bigcoz75]

It wasnt until he had crossed the forty line that he started to act injured. People love the conspiracy theories.

[bigcoz75]

Top LBers 40

Curry, Aaron 4.56
Arnoux, Stanley 4.61
McRath, Gerald 4.61
Matthews, Clay 4.67
Phillips, Jason 4.69
Brinkley, Jasper 4.72
Cushing, Brian 4.74
Freeman, Marcus 4.74
Follett, Zack 4.75
Fokou, Moise 4.76

[Lurker64]

To my eye, none of the LBs today really looked anywhere near as impressive as Curry, and Curry really put on a nice show. He's entirely cemented "top LB in this draft" it seems. Other than him though, the group doesn't look particularly good.

Right now, in terms of "Ranking the LBs (who play traditional spots, not purely 3-4 Rush OLBs) I would go:
1) Curry
2) Cushing
3) Matthews
4) Maualuga
5) Sintim
6) Laurinitis

[Fritz]

Waldo, I know the name of a very good therapist who can help you with this addiction of yours....

[Lurker64]

Waldo, I know the name of a very good therapist who can help you with this addiction of yours....

Please don't make him better at least until after the draft. The draft thread was a little disappointing last year, we need people who know everything about everything to keep it fun.

[Fritz]

I feel like we're enabling him, Lurk.

[pack4to84]

After seeing the 40 times for the OLB/DE I don't see any in the first rd worth taking. Jason Hunter at 6'4" ran a 4.49 40. Who is already on your team. He would be a better fit then some like Brown who ran a 4.73 too slow for a OLB.
These are pathetic times for potential OLB
Orakpo, Brian 4.70
Johnson, Michael 4.75
Brown, Everette 4.73

[Fritz]

What about Jackson from LSU as a DE? Any word?

[pack4to84]

Even a slow white boy name Aaron Kampman ran 4.65 40

Kampman didn't receive an invitation to the NFL scouting combine, and the elementary education major was student teaching when he had a workout at Iowa, running the 40-yard dash at 4.65.
I am telling you we have our OLB for the switch to 3-4
Thompson 4.73/Hunter 4.49
Kampton 4.65/Poppinga 4.72

[red]

What about Jackson from LSU as a DE? Any word?

i want to say his unoffical was just under 5 seconds

not bad for a 300 pound 3-4 de

hell we may be able to pick up a DT, OT, CB, or whatever. and now still be able to pick up one of those 3-4 OLB's that some of us were debating over earlier, in the second round

it'll be fun to see just how much the mock drafts change after the combine

[Waldo]

After seeing the 40 times for the OLB/DE I don't see any in the first rd worth taking. Jason Hunter at 6'4" ran a 4.49 40. Who is already on your team. He would be a better fit then some like Brown who ran a 4.73 too slow for a OLB.
These are pathetic times for potential OLB
Orakpo, Brian 4.70
Johnson, Michael 4.75
Brown, Everette 4.73

It doesn't matter how fast they can run halfway down the field (within reason). It matters how fast they go from stance to their first step. The vert is the best measure of that.

[Fritz]

So, how is Orapko's vertical, Waldo? Do you like him?

What do you think of Raji as a nose tackle?

[Waldo]

Orakpo's 39.5" vert is very elite for his size.

And I love Raji as a NT. Good size, speed, and power combo.

Same reason I really dislike Brace. Too slow. He's got the size and power though.

I wouldn't take Brown though. His 31.5" vert is absolutely pitiful.

Maybin was good at 38". Johnson at 38.5", Barwin at 40.5", those guys will be able to get to the QB at the next level.

I'd take Orakpo over Raji, but Raji over the rest of the DE/OLB's

[TennesseePackerBacker]

Orakpo's 39.5" vert is very elite for his size.

And I love Raji as a NT. Good size, speed, and power combo.

Same reason I really dislike Brace. Too slow. He's got the size and power though.

I wouldn't take Brown though. His 31.5" vert is absolutely pitiful.

Maybin was good at 38". Johnson at 38.5", Barwin at 40.5", those guys will be able to get to the QB at the next level.

I'd take Orakpo over Raji, but Raji over the rest of the DE/OLB's

I know I'm in the minority here but I'm not so sure we need OLB depth as much as we are going to need DT/DE depth.

Raji would be great at pick #9, but do you draft for depth at #9? And if one of the big 3 LT's fell that would also be spectacular as well.

I see us going BPA again per Ted's board in round one and filling out the main needs in rounds 2 and 3. I could easily see the Pack drooling during their 2nd round pick when they see the plethora of D-line and Rush 3/4 backers still available early on. Barwin, English, Mathews Jr., Gilbert(pool freak), Ayers(I know I'm a Tennessee homer) etc.

I'm also from the school of thought that the Packers still need another quality RB. There will still be plenty of talent left in the 3rd/4th round. This should be a much more exciting draft than last year as the possibilities for the Pack are seemingly endless @ #9 and beyond.

[oregonpackfan]

top official DL times
Sidbury, Jr., Lawrence 4.64
Barwin, Connor 4.66
Brown, Everette 4.73
Johnson, Michael 4.75
Sulak, Stryker 4.77
Brown, Cody 4.84
Butler, Victor 4.84
Veikune, David 4.87
Gilbert, Jarron 4.87

Orakpo is grouped with the LBers and ran a 4.70

Oregon State's Victor Butler may be a real "sleeper" in the late rounds. Though he is just 6'2" and 240 lbs., he played DE for the Oregon State Beavers. In the Beavers' Sun Bowl win over Pittsburgh, he was named the MVP of the game.

He is too small to play DE in the pros but he might make a good OLB in a 3-4 defense. Here is a website on him:

http://www.elpasotimes.com/sports/ci_11347271

[The Shadow]

So, how is Orapko's vertical, Waldo? Do you like him?

What do you think of Raji as a nose tackle?


This sounds an awful lot like a spy code phrase, ala "wounds my heart with a monotonous langour".

Are you a 5th columnist, Fritzie?

[Lurker64]

Waldo, you seem to have a good handle on the DT prospects for this draft, what do you think of Myron Pryor, out of Kentucky? 6'0 1/4" 319, ran a 5.05, fairly productive player on a good defense (admittedly in an offensively challenged league). I have a buddy who played with him for Kentucky and he's keeps talking him up to me. I don't know much about him from unbiased sources though.

[Waldo]

Waldo, you seem to have a good handle on the DT prospects for this draft, what do you think of Myron Pryor, out of Kentucky? 6'0 1/4" 319, ran a 5.05, fairly productive player on a good defense (admittedly in an offensively challenged league). I have a buddy who played with him for Kentucky and he's keeps talking him up to me. I don't know much about him from unbiased sources though.

I like him. IMO he's got a real solid chance to make it as an A gap tackle in either a 4-3 or 3-4. He didn't bench so I'm not so sure how strong he is, but he seemed to play pretty well in school and can move well for his size. He'll be drafted and have a place on a roster as a rotational DT from the get go (or a year wait a la Jolly), but he'll find the field. Might never be a star, but the tools are there if he puts it together.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

I gotta say, the more I see of Tyson Jackson the more I think he is the #1 3-4 DE on the board. If Raji were already gone I wouldn't mind seeing the Packers reach for Jackson @ 9.

[red]

jenkins ran a slower time this morning. 4.52-4.58

[bigcoz75]

So a 4.6+ official time? Start up that safety talk again.

[bigcoz75]

What about Vontae Davis?

[red]

don't know, i saw on pft jenkins times

combine coverage just started

edit: davis will be up soon

[red]

vontae unofficial

4.43

he's an impressive looking guy. huge arms

[bigcoz75]

Damn just saw his second run 4.43 and youre right he is huge. Those Clemson safeties are looking quick too.

[swede]

I DVR'd the combine and have been going through it as I've had time.

I was really impressed by Brian Robiske, the WR out of Ohio State.

He's 6'3'' and 209. I think his 40 was around 4.5 but he was a top performer in the vert and 20 yd shuttle.

He rocked during the gauntlet drill and didn't drop a pass all day.

Anybody else see this kid and think he stood out as a better receiver than some of the guys who were a mere 15 100ths of a second faster?

[HarveyWallbangers]

I DVR'd the combine and have been going through it as I've had time.

I was really impressed by Brian Robiske, the WR out of Ohio State.

He's 6'3'' and 209. I think his 40 was around 4.5 but he was a top performer in the vert and 20 yd shuttle.

He rocked during the gauntlet drill and didn't drop a pass all day.

Anybody else see this kid and think he stood out as a better receiver than some of the guys who were a mere 15 100ths of a second faster?

Sounds like somebody Thompson will take in the 2nd or 3rd round.
:D

[packrulz]

Pat Kirwan has a new post combine mock out, I know some fans won't like it, but he was there and he gets insight into what teams are thinking. I think TT will pass on Raji, maybe he thinks he can get a NT later, but Kirwan thinks they like OLB Brian Cushing, USC. The more I think about it, the more I like it at #9, he is solid, he can play any LB spot, is strong, fast, and really has no question marks. Raji might be slow and lazy (ala Hunt), I'm not convinced he's good enough to be a #9 pick, the only other guy I would consider would be CB Vontae Davis. http://www.nfl.com/combine/story?id=09000d5d80eea152&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true&icampaign=DW_Combine_wednesday

[red]

great

cushing came off as a giant duoche to me while watching the combine

[3irty1]

Bedard mentioned in the JSO blog that he'd already heard steroid whispers about Cushing.

[wist43]

Orakpo's 39.5" vert is very elite for his size.

And I love Raji as a NT. Good size, speed, and power combo.

Same reason I really dislike Brace. Too slow. He's got the size and power though.

I wouldn't take Brown though. His 31.5" vert is absolutely pitiful.

Maybin was good at 38". Johnson at 38.5", Barwin at 40.5", those guys will be able to get to the QB at the next level.

I'd take Orakpo over Raji, but Raji over the rest of the DE/OLB's

I know I'm in the minority here but I'm not so sure we need OLB depth as much as we are going to need DT/DE depth.

Raji would be great at pick #9, but do you draft for depth at #9? And if one of the big 3 LT's fell that would also be spectacular as well.

I see us going BPA again per Ted's board in round one and filling out the main needs in rounds 2 and 3. I could easily see the Pack drooling during their 2nd round pick when they see the plethora of D-line and Rush 3/4 backers still available early on. Barwin, English, Mathews Jr., Gilbert(pool freak), Ayers(I know I'm a Tennessee homer) etc.

I'm also from the school of thought that the Packers still need another quality RB. There will still be plenty of talent left in the 3rd/4th round. This should be a much more exciting draft than last year as the possibilities for the Pack are seemingly endless @ #9 and beyond.

Right now, my wish list has only two players on it... Raji or Orakpo.

Don't want Brown at #9, haven't done much scouting though... Raji and Orakpo are the only guys I've given the green light to.

Which, of course means TT doesn't even know they exist, lol :lol:

[KYPack]

Waldo, you seem to have a good handle on the DT prospects for this draft, what do you think of Myron Pryor, out of Kentucky? 6'0 1/4" 319, ran a 5.05, fairly productive player on a good defense (admittedly in an offensively challenged league). I have a buddy who played with him for Kentucky and he's keeps talking him up to me. I don't know much about him from unbiased sources though.

I know you addressed this question to Waldo, but this guy has an NFL motor. NFL size? A question mark, but i'd like to see us get him.

SEC offensively challenged?

What the hell?

[Fritz]

Guy's name is Myron, for crying out loud. You've got to get that guy.

[bigcoz75]

great

cushing came off as a giant duoche to me while watching the combine
I agree 100%.

I think Matthews will be the best LBer out of the three USC guys, but want none of them at 9.

[Fritz]

great

cushing came off as a giant duoche to me while watching the combine
I agree 100%.

I think Matthews will be the best LBer out of the three USC guys, but want none of them at 9.

Red - I've heard whispers that Cushing's sudden weight gain is suspect - he may be a combine hero but a football bust - but I wonder what you saw as his douche-esque qualities. I didn't watch any of the combine stuff or interviews, so I'd be curious to know more about why you think Cushing's douchability is off the charts.

[swede]

I've got Monday and Tuesday combine workouts recorded, but I haven't viewed them all yet.

I did see Raji's workouts. (And the video they're selectively pushing shows him to be a monster., although he might have been ovematching the same patsy over and over.)

The NFL Network crew called him up to the booth for some face time and I thought he smudged up the lines between being funny and confident and being an arrogant dick.

I think he's like Warren Sapp--I know Sapp's problem was specifically being a pot smoker, but teams questioned simply whether the talent was worth the aggravation of the personality. At this point I'd cross my fingers and take Raji if he dropped to #9. Not sure about TT.

Also, I haven't watched the linebackers yet. What makes Cushing seem like a bad guy? The early POV from the NFL media has made it seem like he's kind of a Hawk II.

[red]

great

cushing came off as a giant duoche to me while watching the combine
I agree 100%.

I think Matthews will be the best LBer out of the three USC guys, but want none of them at 9.

Red - I've heard whispers that Cushing's sudden weight gain is suspect - he may be a combine hero but a football bust - but I wonder what you saw as his douche-esque qualities. I didn't watch any of the combine stuff or interviews, so I'd be curious to know more about why you think Cushing's douchability is off the charts.

he was like one of the main featured guys for the nfl network. they did a lot of interviews and segments with him. and just the way he looked acted talked, well just about everything about him made me think, major asshole douchebag

and thats the first i heard about him and roids, i gotta say, that doesn't make me like him anymore

[Lurker64]

SEC offensively challenged?

What the hell?

It ain't the Pac-10 KY. I did watch the entirety of the 3-2 Auburn Ole Miss game this year... .

[Lurker64]

Don't want Brown at #9, haven't done much scouting though... Raji and Orakpo are the only guys I've given the green light to.

Unless Brown shows at his pro day that the 31.5" vertical leap was an anomaly, I don't think anybody is seriously considering him as a top ten pick. I think more people are considering him as Jamal Reynolds 2.0 at this point.

The combine demonstrated what we all feared about Brown, he's fast and he has a very quick step, but he has no power and he's the sort of guy who will get blocked by TEs, since his only pass rushing move is "run around you".

If I'm Thompson, I take Brown off my board for the first entirely.

[Waldo]

Don't want Brown at #9, haven't done much scouting though... Raji and Orakpo are the only guys I've given the green light to.

Unless Brown shows at his pro day that the 31.5" vertical leap was an anomaly, I don't think anybody is seriously considering him as a top ten pick. I think more people are considering him as Jamal Reynolds 2.0 at this point.

The combine demonstrated what we all feared about Brown, he's fast and he has a very quick step, but he has no power and he's the sort of guy who will get blocked by TEs, since his only pass rushing move is "run around you".

If I'm Thompson, I take Brown off my board for the first entirely.

Man I hope TT takes him off the board, dude has bust written all over him.

What do you think of Maybin? His frame, mass, explosion, and change of direction ability is on par with Demarcus Ware, but his long speed isn't in the ballpark, more like Parys Haralson (49er's starting SOLB). He has freaky long arms - 35 1/4" (almost a full inch longer than 6'7" Michal Johnson's), the DE's TT has drafted (Thompson & Monty) both have freaky long arms. His arms are longer than all the OT's in the draft but Loadholt and big Andre.

[Lurker64]

What do you think of Maybin? His frame, mass, explosion, and change of direction ability is on par with Demarcus Ware, but his long speed isn't in the ballpark, more like Parys Haralson (49er's starting SOLB). He has freaky long arms - 35 1/4" (almost a full inch longer than 6'7" Michal Johnson's), the DE's TT has drafted (Thompson & Monty) both have freaky long arms. His arms are longer than all the OT's in the draft but Loadholt and big Andre.

I love Maybin's upside, I think he has more upside as a pass rusher than anybody in this draft except Michael Johnson (who is a headcase); but I don't think he's a player that would make an impact immediately. He's going to take some seasoning, and he's only going to turn 21 in April so he's got a lot of growing to do to fill out that (very impressive) frame.

He's a guy you don't really hesitate too much to pick if he's there at 16, say, but for a top ten pick? It's worrisome. I liken it sort of to the Okoye pick in 2007 by Houston. Everybody know that Okoye wasn't going to be ready to play in the NFL yet, but you pick him up on upside alone. Maybin's in sort of the "you love what this kid could do/but you fear what this kid might do" camp, so that means that I really have to put my faith in professional talent evaluators to make this call.

But if we picked Maybin, it would be sort of a letdown since this kid won't do much in the 2009 season, but he could be absolutely a terror a few years down the line. A definite thing to consider if we end up trading down at 9 so someone else can get a QB.

[3irty1]

Kiper seems to really like Maybin. He might not be any worse than Orakpo.

[bigcoz75]

great

cushing came off as a giant duoche to me while watching the combine
I agree 100%.

I think Matthews will be the best LBer out of the three USC guys, but want none of them at 9.

Red - I've heard whispers that Cushing's sudden weight gain is suspect - he may be a combine hero but a football bust - but I wonder what you saw as his douche-esque qualities. I didn't watch any of the combine stuff or interviews, so I'd be curious to know more about why you think Cushing's douchability is off the charts.

he was like one of the main featured guys for the nfl network. they did a lot of interviews and segments with him. and just the way he looked acted talked, well just about everything about him made me think, major asshole douchebag

and thats the first i heard about him and roids, i gotta say, that doesn't make me like him anymore
http://grg51.typepad.com/steroid_nation/2006/07/trojan_horse.html

[Fritz]

[quote=wist43]Don't want Brown at #9, haven't done much scouting though... Raji and Orakpo are the only guys I've given the green light to.

Unless Brown shows at his pro day that the 31.5" vertical leap was an anomaly, I don't think anybody is seriously considering him as a top ten pick. I think more people are considering him as Jamal Reynolds 2.0 at this point.

The combine demonstrated what we all feared about Brown, he's fast and he has a very quick step, but he has no power and he's the sort of guy who will get blocked by TEs, since his only pass rushing move is "run around you".

If I'm Thompson, I take Brown off my board for the first entirely.[/

quote]

I'm a bit less sophisticated than Lurker and Waldo. If I'm TT, watching film on defensive ends, and I see a defensive end in a Florida State uniform, I turn to my board, pick up my eraser, and rub that guy's name right off. Period.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

SEC offensively challenged?

What the hell?

It ain't the Pac-10 KY. I did watch the entirety of the 3-2 Auburn Ole Miss game this year... .

You won't see a 63-0 game in the SEC either. The defenses in the SEC are the best in the nation hands down. Just because they make the offenses seem bad don't think they actually are. The worst SEC team could give the 3rd best Pac-10 team a run for their money.

[packrulz]

great

cushing came off as a giant duoche to me while watching the combine
I agree 100%.

I think Matthews will be the best LBer out of the three USC guys, but want none of them at 9.

Red - I've heard whispers that Cushing's sudden weight gain is suspect - he may be a combine hero but a football bust - but I wonder what you saw as his douche-esque qualities. I didn't watch any of the combine stuff or interviews, so I'd be curious to know more about why you think Cushing's douchability is off the charts.
Douchability ranking is just as important as the 40 times. :lol:

[KYPack]

SEC offensively challenged?

What the hell?

It ain't the Pac-10 KY. I did watch the entirety of the 3-2 Auburn Ole Miss game this year... .

You won't see a 63-0 game in the SEC either. The defenses in the SEC are the best in the nation hands down. Just because they make the offenses seem bad don't think they actually are. The worst SEC team could give the 3rd best Pac-10 team a run for their money.

Better yield to the Senator from Tennessee, Lurk.

Actually the SEC is a bitch. I am laughing at myself because my post sounds like the locals around here. Cut down the SEC and these guys start loading weapons.

The speed and athleticsm is real impressive top to bottom in the SEC. The Pac 10 bottom feeders are a pretty sorry lot. Even Vandy produces Pro studs from the SEC.

[Lurker64]

The analogy I was really making was:

The Pac-Ten is a league in which the sorry defenses make all of the offenses look good.

The SEC is a league in which the great defenses make the average offenses look bad.

There's a mixture of "truly great defense" and the occasional "truly woeful offense" in that league. Watch the Auburn Ole Miss game last year and tell me that it was just two really good defenses. It was two really good defenses, pitted against two really bad offenses. It's a good brand of football, and I like watching it. But when Kentucky held Mississippi state to 13, it does sort of raise questions in your mind as to how much of that was due to the Bulldogs and not the Wildcats.

That being said, I like watching 14-13 football.

[rbaloha1]

Surprised no one is mentioning the Cincy de/olb converted te (name escapes me). The dude is being compared to Vrabel which imo is not a stretch.

Watched this dude play and he is a stud. Physical and athletic with good pass rushing skills. Posted good combine numbers.

What does the board think?

[Waldo]

Connor Barwin. Best OLB prospect athletically in the draft, physically perfect for it. Very raw though. Very raw. Absolutely stud athlete though, probably on par with Curry and Gilbert in raw athletic ability. If we don't take a pass rusher in the first, there is no guy I want more.

[oregonpackfan]

SEC offensively challenged?

What the hell?

It ain't the Pac-10 KY. I did watch the entirety of the 3-2 Auburn Ole Miss game this year... .

You won't see a 63-0 game in the SEC either. The defenses in the SEC are the best in the nation hands down. Just because they make the offenses seem bad don't think they actually are. The worst SEC team could give the 3rd best Pac-10 team a run for their money.

Keep in mind the Pac-10 went 5-0 in their Bowl games last season. They easily had the best bowl record of any other conference.

[Joemailman]

Connor Barwin. Best OLB prospect athletically in the draft, physically perfect for it. Very raw though. Very raw. Absolutely stud athlete though, probably on par with Curry and Gilbert in raw athletic ability. If we don't take a pass rusher in the first, there is no guy I want more.

Definitely could be a project since he's only played defense for one year. Considered to be very coachable though.

By the way, latest Sporting News Mock has Pack taking Larry English at #9. First time I've seen English going that high. Did he have a great Combine?

[Waldo]

Connor Barwin. Best OLB prospect athletically in the draft, physically perfect for it. Very raw though. Very raw. Absolutely stud athlete though, probably on par with Curry and Gilbert in raw athletic ability. If we don't take a pass rusher in the first, there is no guy I want more.

Definitely could be a project since he's only played defense for one year. Considered to be very coachable though.

By the way, latest Sporting News Mock has Pack taking Larry English at #9. First time I've seen English going that high. Did he have a great Combine?

No. Mediocre. Maybin's was better.

[Partial]

Ho hum looks like that dumbass Partial was pretty dead on balls accurate yet again (as usual) about Everette Brown being small, slow, and easily blocked by a TE.

Maualuga hurt himself by pulling up in the 40, but some team is going to get an absolute steal. Both he and Curry look like animals, but I'm still not confident that Curry will ever be a good pass rushing/blitzing linebacker.

Best player in the draft is Crabtree by far, then probably Maualuga imo.

Jenkins is going to be a heck of a corner in the NFL. As Teets said (paraphrase), "steer clear of the girls with the pretty curls". Jenkins is a football player and he is a heck of a DB.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

SEC offensively challenged?

What the hell?

It ain't the Pac-10 KY. I did watch the entirety of the 3-2 Auburn Ole Miss game this year... .

You won't see a 63-0 game in the SEC either. The defenses in the SEC are the best in the nation hands down. Just because they make the offenses seem bad don't think they actually are. The worst SEC team could give the 3rd best Pac-10 team a run for their money.

Keep in mind the Pac-10 went 5-0 in their Bowl games last season. They easily had the best bowl record of any other conference.

And not one of those games was against an SEC school. The SEC was 6-2 in bowl games with a national championship. I could go ahead and list the games but it would be rather foolish. When it comes to college football....

SEC



The rest..

The trend could change in a couple years, but with the way top coaches choose SEC schools and recruiting is going it doesn't look like it. Not to mention the amount of money these schools are throwing @ their coaching staffs.

[3irty1]

Connor Barwin. Best OLB prospect athletically in the draft, physically perfect for it. Very raw though. Very raw. Absolutely stud athlete though, probably on par with Curry and Gilbert in raw athletic ability. If we don't take a pass rusher in the first, there is no guy I want more.

Ditto. I think with a little bit of coaching Barwin could be an all-around terror. He must be a fast learner.

[Fritz]

But what's his douchability factor?