Greatest Need in the 2009 NFL Draft for Packers

[Deputy Nutz]

Now that the combine is over, what is the biggest need for the Packers?

[3irty1]

I said DE. We potentially have our linebackers although an upgrade wouldn't hurt. What we really need is an end or two. Jenkins and Harrell can be effective but are not dependable. Jolly isn't a great fit at end and Cole is a terrible fit.

[Deputy Nutz]

I said DE. We potentially have our linebackers although an upgrade wouldn't hurt. What we really need is an end or two. Jenkins and Harrell can be effective but are not dependable. Jolly isn't a great fit at end and Cole is a terrible fit.

I agree, for the most part, but our biggest need on defense was a pass rush and I agree a strong front four will help develop the pass rush but the rush comes from the linebackers in this scheme. The more talented players the better.

[wist43]

Pass Rushing OLB... I have Orakpo penciled in for that role.

NT... have Raji penciled in for that role.

Rest of the draft... holes everywhere, or soon to be holes; throw a dart.

TT wont look at need with that first pick though... you know his mantra, which ever player they figure has a better future, regardless of position. We're as likely to end up with a RB or WR at that pick as we are a NT, or rush LB.

[sheepshead]

Dear Mr. Thompson,

Please draft a new quarterback.

Signed,

Partial

[Waldo]

Pass Rushing OLB... I have Orakpo penciled in for that role.

NT... have Raji penciled in for that role.

Rest of the draft... holes everywhere, or soon to be holes; throw a dart.

TT wont look at need with that first pick though... you know his mantra, which ever player they figure has a better future, regardless of position. We're as likely to end up with a RB or WR at that pick as we are a NT, or rush LB.

You complain about our team being a poor fit for a 3-4 than pencil in Orakpo at OLB, :lol: LOL

[red]

i say tackle if one of the top 3 fall, right now andre smith is off my board

next up would be raji if he's there

i'm back on the orakpo bandwagon, he's my third choice

tyson jackson would be my 4th choice if all the others are gone at #9

IMO, no cb warrants the #9 pick

[sharpe1027]

Pass Rushing OLB... I have Orakpo penciled in for that role.

NT... have Raji penciled in for that role.

Rest of the draft... holes everywhere, or soon to be holes; throw a dart.

TT wont look at need with that first pick though... you know his mantra, which ever player they figure has a better future, regardless of position. We're as likely to end up with a RB or WR at that pick as we are a NT, or rush LB.

I thought we covered this already. Not look at the teams needs? Simply not true. Just because he doesn't limit his options to a single position doesn't mean that he doesn't draft with the teams needs in mind. If you don't believe this common sense logic, consider that most of his first picks ended up being at positions that were very much needed. Fan/media perception is not always reality.

[HarveyWallbangers]

In order, DE, NT, CB, LB.

[sharpe1027]

LB - CB - DE/DT - RB - OL - QB - TE - WR

[Guiness]

DE before NT? Not IMO - we have one DE, and some guys who can play the other side - granted, they're 'just guys' but at least there's someone.

I think NT is out biggest need. Pickett is not going to play 100% of the snaps there this year, and I don't think we've got anyone else who can play in the middle. Cole and Jolly would be the next two guys, I guess, and even Jolly is potentially slated to be outside.

OT is also a spot we need to look at, but even though there's a lot of bitching about Clifton here, our offense was where it was with him in there last year, and we've got other tackles on the roster - and I agree that Colledge deserves his shot at LT. One of Tausch, Giacomini or Barbre will man the other side.

[cpk1994]

Dear Mr. Thompson,

Please draft a new quarterback.

Signed,

Partial

P.S. I know more than you, so just do it.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I missed OT, so I'd go DE, NT, OT, CB, LB. Honestly, I'd be okay with drafting anybody at #9 from any of these positions. You could even throw in S, if there was somebody worthy of it (e.g. a Sean Taylor like prospect).

[sharpe1027]

DE before NT? Not IMO - we have one DE, and some guys who can play the other side - granted, they're 'just guys' but at least there's someone.

I think NT is out biggest need. Pickett is not going to play 100% of the snaps there this year, and I don't think we've got anyone else who can play in the middle. Cole and Jolly would be the next two guys, I guess, and even Jolly is potentially slated to be outside.


Maybe or maybe not. McCarthy has said that they were not going to use 2-gap NT technique, which should allow Cole, Jenkins and Jolly to play NT.

[Freak Out]

Punter? Sorry....

DT, DE, CB, OL, RB/KR.

Is there a KR in this draft that will make it big? It would be so nice to have a real threat back there on returns.

[3irty1]

DE before NT? Not IMO - we have one DE, and some guys who can play the other side - granted, they're 'just guys' but at least there's someone.

I think NT is out biggest need. Pickett is not going to play 100% of the snaps there this year, and I don't think we've got anyone else who can play in the middle. Cole and Jolly would be the next two guys, I guess, and even Jolly is potentially slated to be outside.


That's assuming that the team is in the base defense 100% of the time. Any one of the lineman can come off the field when the team is in subpackages, it seems to me that on other 3-4 teams that's often times the NT. Either way I think we've got our starting NT. I'm skeptical about our starting DE, and OLB opposite of Kampman.

[wist43]

Pass Rushing OLB... I have Orakpo penciled in for that role.

NT... have Raji penciled in for that role.

Rest of the draft... holes everywhere, or soon to be holes; throw a dart.

TT wont look at need with that first pick though... you know his mantra, which ever player they figure has a better future, regardless of position. We're as likely to end up with a RB or WR at that pick as we are a NT, or rush LB.

You complain about our team being a poor fit for a 3-4 than pencil in Orakpo at OLB, :lol: LOL

I'd take Orakpo at OLB before I'd put Kampman there... quicker, more compactly built, great off the edge - haven't scouted much, but my initial impression of Orakpo is that he would be a good fit at OLB in a 3-4... bigger than Harrison, but has the same type of ability off the edge.

[Fritz]

I'm going to say NT, DE, OL, LB, CB, TE, S

And whoever has Orakpo penciled in at LB or DE AND Raji at NT, how's TT going to get them both?

[wist43]

Why in poo perfect hell would you want to draft a DE in the first round if you're going to be running a 3-4???

A DE in a 3-4 is pretty much a bell weather against the run, eating up blockers so the LB's can make the plays... Good gravy, they're talking about moving Jolly, and Harrell to DE... those are the types of guys you're going to be seeing at DE in a 3-4.

No need for a 1st round DE in a 3-4... a 3-4 team, if they are going to invest in front 7 talent in the first round, will be looking at LB and NT, and that's about it.

DE's that fit a 3-4, simply don't have 1st round value.

[Waldo]

Why in poo perfect hell would you want to draft a DE in the first round if you're going to be running a 3-4???

A DE in a 3-4 is pretty much a bell weather against the run, eating up blockers so the LB's can make the plays... Good gravy, they're talking about moving Jolly, and Harrell to DE... those are the types of guys you're going to be seeing at DE in a 3-4.

No need for a 1st round DE in a 3-4... a 3-4 team, if they are going to invest in front 7 talent in the first round, will be looking at LB and NT, and that's about it.

DE's that fit a 3-4, simply don't have 1st round value.

Then why do the Pats, Chargers, Cowboys, etc... spend first round picks on DE's?

T. Warren - 1st
R. Seymore - 1st
M. Spears - 1st
L. Castillo - 1st
I. Olshansky - high 2nd
P Merling - 32nd overall (first pick in 2nd)

[Lurker64]

DE's that fit a 3-4, simply don't have 1st round value.

Well, they certainly don't have top 10 value in the first round, I agree, but when San Diego took Luis Castillo with the 28th pick in 2005, I think everybody would agree that that was an excellent pick in retrospect.

Also, "greatest need" isn't necessarily the one we fill first.

[Gunakor]

I said DE. We potentially have our linebackers although an upgrade wouldn't hurt. What we really need is an end or two. Jenkins and Harrell can be effective but are not dependable. Jolly isn't a great fit at end and Cole is a terrible fit.

Cole would be the backup NT should we not draft or sign one in the next couple of months. I think Jolly would be effective but not great at DE. I would like to see an upgrade there, but it isn't as pressing a need as a NT. Let's face it, Pickett won't last 16 games playing 80% of the defensive snaps at NT. Even if the guy we get isn't going to be the starter right away, we need one very badly to at least split time with Pickett. Cole would get absolutely abused as a nose. So IMO a nose is the biggest need this offseason.

[Waldo]

In 10 hours and 4 minutes, Cole is no longer a Packer.

If we play our base defense on 50% of the snaps at most (likely), and Pickett plays 100% of the snaps at NT in base, he will play 86% of the snaps he played in '08. If we get a guy in the draft or rotate in Jolly or Harrell for 5 snaps a game, Pickett will only play 72% of the snaps he played in '08.

Every time Tramon is on the field, Pickett goes to the bench, unlike the 4-3 (at least after Jenkins got hurt), where Pickett played passing downs and Poppinga sat on the bench.

[sharpe1027]

I said DE. We potentially have our linebackers although an upgrade wouldn't hurt. What we really need is an end or two. Jenkins and Harrell can be effective but are not dependable. Jolly isn't a great fit at end and Cole is a terrible fit.

Cole would be the backup NT should we not draft or sign one in the next couple of months. I think Jolly would be effective but not great at DE. I would like to see an upgrade there, but it isn't as pressing a need as a NT. Let's face it, Pickett won't last 16 games playing 80% of the defensive snaps at NT. Even if the guy we get isn't going to be the starter right away, we need one very badly to at least split time with Pickett. Cole would get absolutely abused as a nose. So IMO a nose is the biggest need this offseason.

First, MM explained that they will not be playing a 2-gap NT. MM also seemed to imply that Jenkins would be playing NT. That makes me think that we don't know what we are talking about when we make this huge deal about the NT having to be a 350lb immovable object.

Second, we will probably be in base 3-4 maybe 30%-40% of the time (with nickel taking up about almost 50% and the rest being a 4-3 lineup). Even if Pickett plays every single snap in the base 3-4 defense, that's no where near 80%.

[Gunakor]

Punter? Sorry....

DT, DE, CB, OL, RB/KR.

Is there a KR in this draft that will make it big? It would be so nice to have a real threat back there on returns.

Will Blackmon is pretty dangerous when healthy...

[Gunakor]

I said DE. We potentially have our linebackers although an upgrade wouldn't hurt. What we really need is an end or two. Jenkins and Harrell can be effective but are not dependable. Jolly isn't a great fit at end and Cole is a terrible fit.

Cole would be the backup NT should we not draft or sign one in the next couple of months. I think Jolly would be effective but not great at DE. I would like to see an upgrade there, but it isn't as pressing a need as a NT. Let's face it, Pickett won't last 16 games playing 80% of the defensive snaps at NT. Even if the guy we get isn't going to be the starter right away, we need one very badly to at least split time with Pickett. Cole would get absolutely abused as a nose. So IMO a nose is the biggest need this offseason.

First, MM explained that they will not be playing a 2-gap NT. MM also seemed to imply that Jenkins would be playing NT. That makes me think that we don't know what we are talking about when we make this huge deal about the NT having to be a 350lb immovable object.

Second, we will probably be in base 3-4 maybe 30%-40% of the time (with nickel taking up about almost 50% and the rest being a 4-3 lineup). Even if Pickett plays every single snap in the base 3-4 defense, that's no where near 80%.

It might have to do with the personnel we have on the roster right now. As the turnaround progresses, I doubt very highly that MM would rather play 1 gap than 2 gap. With the guys we have right now we really don't have much choice, but if that 350 lb. immovable object were to present itself to us at #9 do you really think TT would even think twice about it?

[Waldo]

Capers' lineage is the Steelers defense, that he was part of the development of. A 1 gap defense. 2 gap 3-4 D's haven't nearly been as successful as 1 gap 3-4 D's in recent years. MM is all about aggression, not vanilla. A 2 gap 3-4 is vanilla, a 1 gap 3-4 is aggressive.

[Guiness]

Ok, you guys have me somewhat convinced that we could go with Pickett as our main NT, and not need another guy unless he got hurt. I wasn't thinking about how often we wouldn't be in base, only that he was what I consider the only NT on the roster.

In passing downs, I wouldn't be surprised to seen Jenkins or Jolly move inside, and Kampman to line up as a down lineman.

[sharpe1027]

It might have to do with the personnel we have on the roster right now. As the turnaround progresses, I doubt very highly that MM would rather play 1 gap than 2 gap. With the guys we have right now we really don't have much choice, but if that 350 lb. immovable object were to present itself to us at #9 do you really think TT would even think twice about it?

I disagree. They both have their advantages. A 1 gap system is not an inferior system only used as a last resort because of a lack of personnel. Maybe they really want to run a 2-gap, but probably not given Caper's experience and what they have been saying.

[MadtownPacker]

Dear Mr. Thompson,

Please draft a new quarterback.

Signed,

Partial

P.S. I know more than you, so just do it.P.S.S. Ruin a great thread and expect to be reading only from now on. Both of you.

[sheepshead]

Dear Mr. Thompson,

Please draft a new quarterback.

Signed,

Partial

P.S. I know more than you, so just do it.P.S.S. Ruin a great thread and expect to be reading only from now on. Both of you.

I'm not sure I understand, can you pvt me please?

[Zool]

Ohh I can translate this one.


Stop being such a dick.

[cheesner]

OT is also a spot we need to look at, but even though there's a lot of bitching about Clifton here, our offense was where it was with him in there last year, and we've got other tackles on the roster - and I agree that Colledge deserves his shot at LT. One of Tausch, Giacomini or Barbre will man the other side.
Our offense was good last season with Clifton but I look at it this way:

1. Clifton IMHO was the weak link in the chain. An improvement in that position would greatly improve the run game making the Packers an elite offensive team.
2. Holding the ball longer on offense with a better run game will improve our defense by giving them longer rests and just keeping the other teams offense on the sidelines.
3. Clifton's play has steadily decreased and that trend will likely continue.


Furthermore, this is the best year of elite OTs as far back as I can remember. The top 4 (with reservations on character issues for Smith) are all capable of being a #1 overall in typical draft years. I think they are each better than last years No. 1 - Jake Long. Due to this large number, the Packers may get a shot a one of them, and only have to commit #9 money to them. To me this makes the drafting of an OT an extra value bargain at a very important position.

[sheepshead]

Ohh I can translate this one.


Stop being such a dick.

UHHHH Some decorum here that overreached on? Like you calling me a dick for instance?

[Zool]

Ohh I can translate this one.


Stop being such a dick.

UHHHH Some decorum here that overreached on? Like you calling me a dick for instance?

No i said you were being a dick by making a mockery of Partial and his opinion. I didn't say "Sheep you're a dick".

[Guiness]

Dear Mr. Thompson,

Please draft a new quarterback.

Signed,

Partial

P.S. I know more than you, so just do it.P.S.S. Ruin a great thread and expect to be reading only from now on. Both of you.

u so sure it's 2 of them?

[sheepshead]

[quote=Zool]Ohh I can translate this one.


Stop being such a dick.

UHHHH Some decorum here that overreached on? Like you calling me a dick for instance?

No i said you were being a dick by making a mockery of Partial and his opinion. I didn't say "Sheep you're a dick".[/quote

Oh so, good natured ribbing about one's opinion is taboo? Is this the first time you or mad has seen this type of thing on this or any other board? Particularly one about sports and that is populated mostly by guys? Is that what you're saying?

I'm really not trying to be "dick" here. I really just want to understand what the threat and subsequent vulgar name calling is about.

[Zool]

[quote=Zool]Ohh I can translate this one.


Stop being such a dick.

UHHHH Some decorum here that overreached on? Like you calling me a dick for instance?

No i said you were being a dick by making a mockery of Partial and his opinion. I didn't say "Sheep you're a dick".[/quote

Oh so, good natured ribbing about one's opinion is taboo? Is this the first time you or mad has seen this type of thing on this or any other board? Particularly one about sports and that is populated mostly by guys? Is that what you're saying?

I didn't once say i agreed or disagreed. I'm just translating because you seemed confused.

[vince]

1. DE
1. NT
2. OL

It's a tie between DE and NT as our biggest need currently. The reality is that, without relying on Harrell, we're currently one injury away from having a major liability against the run. Dom says right up front that if you can't stop the run, then nothing on defense works. We can't afford to hope they big maulers on the inside can stay healthy all year long. That usually doesn't happen.

I have no doubt that'll get fixed, but that's currently our biggest need.

[wist43]

Why in poo perfect hell would you want to draft a DE in the first round if you're going to be running a 3-4???

A DE in a 3-4 is pretty much a bell weather against the run, eating up blockers so the LB's can make the plays... Good gravy, they're talking about moving Jolly, and Harrell to DE... those are the types of guys you're going to be seeing at DE in a 3-4.

No need for a 1st round DE in a 3-4... a 3-4 team, if they are going to invest in front 7 talent in the first round, will be looking at LB and NT, and that's about it.

DE's that fit a 3-4, simply don't have 1st round value.

Then why do the Pats, Chargers, Cowboys, etc... spend first round picks on DE's?

T. Warren - 1st
R. Seymore - 1st
M. Spears - 1st
L. Castillo - 1st
I. Olshansky - high 2nd
P Merling - 32nd overall (first pick in 2nd)

The only guy on that list that I would give a 1st round pick for would be Seymore... some of those other guys are okay, but they're certainly not the playermakers of their respective defenses.

And Seymour is just a damn good DL... I thought the Patriots reached for him the year he came out, but he really is a stud DL. He can't play the nose, although I think he's talented enough he could probably be okay there too... I don't see him as a DE or DT, just a DL. Damn good player, a player you're willing to make accomodations and changes for, i.e. "hybrid".

That said, I just don't value DE's in 3-4's as much as rush LB'ers and NT's... none of those guys you listed, sans Seymour, is a difference maker... you can find guys to man those positions more cheaply.

[wist43]

Pass Rushing OLB... I have Orakpo penciled in for that role.

NT... have Raji penciled in for that role.

Rest of the draft... holes everywhere, or soon to be holes; throw a dart.

TT wont look at need with that first pick though... you know his mantra, which ever player they figure has a better future, regardless of position. We're as likely to end up with a RB or WR at that pick as we are a NT, or rush LB.

You complain about our team being a poor fit for a 3-4 than pencil in Orakpo at OLB, :lol: LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGUc3UL64f0

Looks like an rush LB in a 3-4 all day to me...

[packer4life]

very nice, how much?

[Partial]

Orakpo is looking very good. Infinitely better player than Everette Brown.

[red]

Pass Rushing OLB... I have Orakpo penciled in for that role.

NT... have Raji penciled in for that role.

Rest of the draft... holes everywhere, or soon to be holes; throw a dart.

TT wont look at need with that first pick though... you know his mantra, which ever player they figure has a better future, regardless of position. We're as likely to end up with a RB or WR at that pick as we are a NT, or rush LB.

You complain about our team being a poor fit for a 3-4 than pencil in Orakpo at OLB, :lol: LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGUc3UL64f0

Looks like an rush LB in a 3-4 all day to me...

everytime i watch that video he jumps back up to the top of my wish list

[red]

where the hell are the draft mags?

usually there's a couple out before the combine

[Waldo]

Basically every analyst that was at the combine was in full agreement that Orakpo has no place in a pro 3-4. His hips are way too stiff, he looked terrible in the LB drills (before hurting himself). He's a 4-3 DE.

[Waldo]

FYI - The same exact aircraft that Brett Favre left GB on:

1) Based at the Dane Co. Airport.
2) Hasn't flown in a few days
3) Left Dane and landed at GB's airport
4) Was on the ground for 4 minutes in GB
5) Is enroute to Austin, Tx at this moment
6) The U of Tx ix there, players typically work out at their college in the offseason


Who could it be?

Maybe it's totally unrelated.

[3irty1]

FYI - The same exact aircraft that Brett Favre left GB on:

1) Based at the Dane Co. Airport.
2) Hasn't flown in a few days
3) Left Dane and landed at GB's airport
4) Was on the ground for 4 minutes in GB
5) Is enroute to Austin, Tx at this moment
6) The U of Tx ix there, players typically work out at their college in the offseason


Who could it be?

Maybe it's totally unrelated.

Where did you hear that?

[red]

FYI - The same exact aircraft that Brett Favre left GB on:

1) Based at the Dane Co. Airport.
2) Hasn't flown in a few days
3) Left Dane and landed at GB's airport
4) Was on the ground for 4 minutes in GB
5) Is enroute to Austin, Tx at this moment
6) The U of Tx ix there, players typically work out at their college in the offseason


Who could it be?

Maybe it's totally unrelated.

that was bretts own plane not the teams

well, not his own but he leased it or it was always on stand by for him or something like that. but it wasn't the teams

it would be very odd for the team to buy that exact plane, and now use it as their own

it was based in dane county though

[packer4life]

orakpo ranked as mike mayock's #4 draft prospect, FWIW

[red]

and honestly, i don't see any flights in route to austin from austin-straubel

[packer4life]

maybe its en route to save JIN!

[packer4life]

orakpo ranked as mike mayock's #4 draft prospect, FWIW

i meant #4 DE prospect, big difference haha

[red]

wait, no, there it is

you're right, its en route to austin

[Waldo]

FYI - The same exact aircraft that Brett Favre left GB on:

1) Based at the Dane Co. Airport.
2) Hasn't flown in a few days
3) Left Dane and landed at GB's airport
4) Was on the ground for 4 minutes in GB
5) Is enroute to Austin, Tx at this moment
6) The U of Tx ix there, players typically work out at their college in the offseason


Who could it be?

Maybe it's totally unrelated.

Where did you hear that?

I've been watching this all day:
http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KGRB

Keeping this in mind:
http://www.packerbackerblog.com/detail.asp?c=7054

It unexpectedly showed up in GB (it wasn't on the enroute list), after not having flown in days (I checked the status of both planes in the article this AM, nothing), and took off almost immediately. 4 minutes on the ground.

Could be nothing. Could be the Packers charter through that FBO.

[red]

I BET IT'S GOING TO AUSTIN TO PICK UP BRETT FAVRE WHO HAS BEEN FISHING IN THE AUSTIN AREA, AND IT WILL BRING HIM BACK HERE TO TALK ABOUT REJOINING THE PACKERS

YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!

[red]

FYI - The same exact aircraft that Brett Favre left GB on:

1) Based at the Dane Co. Airport.
2) Hasn't flown in a few days
3) Left Dane and landed at GB's airport
4) Was on the ground for 4 minutes in GB
5) Is enroute to Austin, Tx at this moment
6) The U of Tx ix there, players typically work out at their college in the offseason


Who could it be?

Maybe it's totally unrelated.

Where did you hear that?

I've been watching this all day:
http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KGRB

Keeping this in mind:
http://www.packerbackerblog.com/detail.asp?c=7054

It unexpectedly showed up in GB (it wasn't on the enroute list), after not having flown in days (I checked the status of both planes in the article this AM, nothing), and took off almost immediately.

ok, so i was wrong, that plane does kind of belong to the packers

his pro day is a month away. can they do private workouts this early?

[Waldo]

Could be a free agent living or working out in the area. After all FA starts in 4.5 hours.

[red]

wait, i was right. the plane doesn't belong to anyone with the packers. its owned by a home design company

i bet its nothing

[Freak Out]

WTF? This suddenly turns into the conspiracy thread. :lol:

[Waldo]

wait, i was right. the plane doesn't belong to anyone with the packers. its owned by a home design company

i bet its nothing

Just like a time share, companies buy planes and lease them to FBO's to operate. Quite a profitable endeavor actually (I work for the FAA).

Otherwise it would be unfeasible to own your own Jet. Very few people own private jets and only use them for themselves.

[red]

not really anything exciting coming into green bay today

fw flight from chicago, detroit and minnie.

one from bowling green with no departure time

and one from joplin, mo, then then flew to appleton

doesn't look like any agents or players are flying in today

[Fritz]

WTF? This suddenly turns into the conspiracy thread. :lol:

I know! This is freakin' awesome!!

[Bretsky]

not really anything exciting coming into green bay today

fw flight from chicago, detroit and minnie.

one from bowling green with no departure time

and one from joplin, mo, then then flew to appleton

doesn't look like any agents or players are flying in today


Leave TTT alone; he'll be inside studying film for the next seven weeks looking for the next Michael Hawkins

[3irty1]

Could be a free agent living or working out in the area. After all FA starts in 4.5 hours.

Marcus Tubbs?

[Bretsky]

Could be a free agent living or working out in the area. After all FA starts in 4.5 hours.

Marcus Tubbs?

Bring Back Gilbert Brown

What about Roell Preston; we found him on the job

[packer4life]

BRING BACK TACO WALLACE

[packer4life]

BRING BACK TACO WALLACE

http://www.angelfire.com/oh5/novak/

"Positives: NAME IS TACO...Team-oriented player"

BAHAHAHAHAHAH

[Guiness]

You're watching airport departure logs to see if there appears to be any Packer related traffic??? How good is that? lol

edit: just saw you work for the FAA. Makes some sense then!

[SnakeLH2006]

Why in poo perfect hell would you want to draft a DE in the first round if you're going to be running a 3-4???

A DE in a 3-4 is pretty much a bell weather against the run, eating up blockers so the LB's can make the plays... Good gravy, they're talking about moving Jolly, and Harrell to DE... those are the types of guys you're going to be seeing at DE in a 3-4.

No need for a 1st round DE in a 3-4... a 3-4 team, if they are going to invest in front 7 talent in the first round, will be looking at LB and NT, and that's about it.

DE's that fit a 3-4, simply don't have 1st round value.

I'm floored too. A DE in a 3-4 doesn't have much value that high in the draft as most are 270 lb. pass rushers. DE in our scheme now are run stuffers kinda like a quick 4-3 DT. Dime a dozen compared to a true NT like Raji (where Snake voted). What really blows me away is I was almost gonna pick OT and see that only 1/32 voted OT?? Huh? With all the problems last year at OT with Cliffy (old, deteriorating, DONE) and Tauchy (old, slowing, hurt)...we need at least one guy to step in to be a force at either OT spot whether in FA or the draft. Don't be surprised if we go 1-2 with a NT and an OT in the draft. But then again, it's TT, so probably looking at a WR and a RB, lol. :roll:

[Waldo]

Why in poo perfect hell would you want to draft a DE in the first round if you're going to be running a 3-4???

A DE in a 3-4 is pretty much a bell weather against the run, eating up blockers so the LB's can make the plays... Good gravy, they're talking about moving Jolly, and Harrell to DE... those are the types of guys you're going to be seeing at DE in a 3-4.

No need for a 1st round DE in a 3-4... a 3-4 team, if they are going to invest in front 7 talent in the first round, will be looking at LB and NT, and that's about it.

DE's that fit a 3-4, simply don't have 1st round value.

I'm floored too. A DE in a 3-4 doesn't have much value that high in the draft as most are 270 lb. pass rushers. DE in our scheme now are run stuffers kinda like a quick 4-3 DT. Dime a dozen compared to a true NT like Raji (where Snake voted). What really blows me away is I was almost gonna pick OT and see that only 1/32 voted OT?? Huh? With all the problems last year at OT with Cliffy (old, deteriorating, DONE) and Tauchy (old, slowing, hurt)...we need at least one guy to step in to be a force at either OT spot whether in FA or the draft. Don't be surprised if we go 1-2 with a NT and an OT in the draft. But then again, it's TT, so probably looking at a WR and a RB, lol. :roll:

Thing with OT....we've got 6 OT's (Clifton, Colledge, Sitton, Barbre, Moll, Giacominni) on the roster and 3 C's (Spitz, Wells, Carvalho). TT drafts OT's to play G, not G's.

Good 3-4 teams spend premium picks on DE's. They need to push the pocket somewhat, and do it agaisnt an OT often, being built like an interior DT doesn't work too well. Tall, long arms, and athletic is the name of the game. Jackson and Gilbert are the best 3-4 DE's in this draft and a better fit at 3-4 DE than 4-3 DT, both will be first round picks.

[SnakeLH2006]

Why in poo perfect hell would you want to draft a DE in the first round if you're going to be running a 3-4???

A DE in a 3-4 is pretty much a bell weather against the run, eating up blockers so the LB's can make the plays... Good gravy, they're talking about moving Jolly, and Harrell to DE... those are the types of guys you're going to be seeing at DE in a 3-4.

No need for a 1st round DE in a 3-4... a 3-4 team, if they are going to invest in front 7 talent in the first round, will be looking at LB and NT, and that's about it.

DE's that fit a 3-4, simply don't have 1st round value.

I'm floored too. A DE in a 3-4 doesn't have much value that high in the draft as most are 270 lb. pass rushers. DE in our scheme now are run stuffers kinda like a quick 4-3 DT. Dime a dozen compared to a true NT like Raji (where Snake voted). What really blows me away is I was almost gonna pick OT and see that only 1/32 voted OT?? Huh? With all the problems last year at OT with Cliffy (old, deteriorating, DONE) and Tauchy (old, slowing, hurt)...we need at least one guy to step in to be a force at either OT spot whether in FA or the draft. Don't be surprised if we go 1-2 with a NT and an OT in the draft. But then again, it's TT, so probably looking at a WR and a RB, lol. :roll:

Thing with OT....we've got 6 OT's (Clifton, Colledge, Sitton, Barbre, Moll, Giacominni) on the roster and 3 C's (Spitz, Wells, Carvalho). TT drafts OT's to play G, not G's.

Good 3-4 teams spend premium picks on DE's. They need to push the pocket somewhat, and do it agaisnt an OT often, being built like an interior DT doesn't work too well. Tall, long arms, and athletic is the name of the game. Jackson and Gilbert are the best 3-4 DE's in this draft and a better fit at 3-4 DE than 4-3 DT, both will be first round picks.

Maybe so, but could you argue against Raji at NT (as we do need a true NT) or a top 3 OT as both Cliffy and Tauchy are done soon and I wouldn't bank the farm we have anyone that can play at the level yet when they were at their prime and valuable. Colledge did OK, but that still leaves one more OT to enter the picture. I'm not willing to gamble that ARod would stay healthy for 16 games with Colledge and one of the holdovers doing it for 16 games.

[Waldo]

NT is a situational player. Needing a backup NT is akin to needing a backup nickel back. Granted it is an important situational player, but it is still situational.

We have guys that can play OT. While we could use some depth for sure, I'm not shaking in my boots over the prospects of the kids starting. IMO they are better than the starters anyway, who were only starting because of their paychecks and the couple game hiccup that a line shuffle would cause.

Poppinga and Chillar are absolutely pitiful options at elephant OLB. We don't have a starter on the roster.

[SnakeLH2006]

NT is a situational player. Needing a backup NT is akin to needing a backup nickel back. Granted it is an important situational player, but it is still situational.

We have guys that can play OT. While we could use some depth for sure, I'm not shaking in my boots over the prospects of the kids starting. IMO they are better than the starters anyway, who were only starting because of their paychecks and the couple game hiccup that a line shuffle would cause.

Poppinga and Chillar are absolutely pitiful options at elephant OLB. We don't have a starter on the roster.

I definitely agree with that statement.

As far as NT, do you really think Pickett is the long term answer. I understand if you think we'd be drafting a backup, but Pickett is old (30) and a FA to be in the last year of his contract. I'm not sold that he is the man-mountain a true 3-4 needs at NT. He's good, but really regressed last year in 2008 vs. 2007 and 2006. He got slowed a bit by injuries and at his size/age he may be slowing....Regardless he's a FA to be and I'd like a big guy to take over the middle as Snake feels his best is behind him not only because of those facts, but because, he may not be the force we need to command 2 blockers and collapse a pocket NOW. Esp. with FA coming, I'd like to draft his replacement now at #9 with Raji or at least in the 2nd. Either way...Snake would be extremely happy with a OT or NT at #9 and vice versa in the second.

[Waldo]

NT is a situational player. Needing a backup NT is akin to needing a backup nickel back. Granted it is an important situational player, but it is still situational.

We have guys that can play OT. While we could use some depth for sure, I'm not shaking in my boots over the prospects of the kids starting. IMO they are better than the starters anyway, who were only starting because of their paychecks and the couple game hiccup that a line shuffle would cause.

Poppinga and Chillar are absolutely pitiful options at elephant OLB. We don't have a starter on the roster.

I definitely agree with that statement.

As far as NT, do you really think Pickett is the long term answer. I understand if you think we'd be drafting a backup, but Pickett is old (30) and a FA to be in the last year of his contract. I'm not sold that he is the man-mountain a true 3-4 needs at NT. He's good, but really regressed last year in 2008 vs. 2007 and 2006. He got slowed a bit by injuries and at his size/age he may be slowing....Regardless he's a FA to be and I'd like a big guy to take over the middle as Snake feels his best is behind him not only because of those facts, but because, he may not be the force we need to command 2 blockers and collapse a pocket NOW. Esp. with FA coming, I'd like to draft his replacement now at #9 with Raji or at least in the 2nd. Either way...Snake would be extremely happy with a OT or NT at #9 and vice versa in the second.

P. Williams will be going on 37 this season. G. Jackson is 36. A lot of the big A gap tackles don't get good until their early 30's and they last a fairly long time. 30 isn't that old at all for a power tackle. 32-33, then its time to start looking for a replacement as a point of need, instead of a luxury upgrade (which Raji would be). Raji wouldn't do a whole lot to help the team for 2-3 years different than Pickett, it isn't until 4-5 years after the draft that the pick would actually have value.

Keep in mind, next year is a great DT draft. They all went back to school.

[SnakeLH2006]

NT is a situational player. Needing a backup NT is akin to needing a backup nickel back. Granted it is an important situational player, but it is still situational.

We have guys that can play OT. While we could use some depth for sure, I'm not shaking in my boots over the prospects of the kids starting. IMO they are better than the starters anyway, who were only starting because of their paychecks and the couple game hiccup that a line shuffle would cause.

Poppinga and Chillar are absolutely pitiful options at elephant OLB. We don't have a starter on the roster.

I definitely agree with that statement.

As far as NT, do you really think Pickett is the long term answer. I understand if you think we'd be drafting a backup, but Pickett is old (30) and a FA to be in the last year of his contract. I'm not sold that he is the man-mountain a true 3-4 needs at NT. He's good, but really regressed last year in 2008 vs. 2007 and 2006. He got slowed a bit by injuries and at his size/age he may be slowing....Regardless he's a FA to be and I'd like a big guy to take over the middle as Snake feels his best is behind him not only because of those facts, but because, he may not be the force we need to command 2 blockers and collapse a pocket NOW. Esp. with FA coming, I'd like to draft his replacement now at #9 with Raji or at least in the 2nd. Either way...Snake would be extremely happy with a OT or NT at #9 and vice versa in the second.

P. Williams will be going on 37 this season. G. Jackson is 36. A lot of the big A gap tackles don't get good until their early 30's and they last a fairly long time. 30 isn't that old at all for a power tackle. 32-33, then its time to start looking for a replacement as a point of need, instead of a luxury upgrade (which Raji would be). Raji wouldn't do a whole lot to help the team for 2-3 years different than Pickett, it isn't until 4-5 years after the draft that the pick would actually have value.

Keep in mind, next year is a great DT draft. They all went back to school.

I thought about that (ages of top NT's when I posted that last comment) but age is not the main factor with Pickett. I don't feel he can be a top NT as those guys are mountains. Pickett is not. He can't move 2 OL at will at 23 much less 30. I'm saying he's not equipped to be a top NT in a 3-4. They were because of their size. We need to upgrade regardless and it be a good year to get that guy in the draft because Pickett has been slowing (injuries/age) and we have him to baby a new guy for a year.

[Fritz]

Good back and forth here. Makes me start to lose a little of my love for BJ - and that's saying something...

Still, I'd be happy to get BJ in the first round, though you couldn't really trade down past Denver and still expect the guy to be there.

[Bretsky]

Unless somebody falls, to me trading down makes the most sense.

[Waldo]

Unless somebody falls, to me trading down makes the most sense.

Unless somebody falls, there is no point in trading up to our pick. :D

Orakpo falls, Was is a strong trade up possibility.

Monroe or Oher fall (possibly Andre too depending on the next few weeks), Philly or Det have strong trade up potential.

Raji falls, the Broncos could be lookin' to deal.

Stafford/Sanchez fall, the Jets, Bucs, and Detroit all could be suitors (I doubt we'd trade a QB pick in-division, but we'd probably do it for an OT).

Detroit holds the best pick in the draft (#33), I'm sure TT would love to get his hands on it.

[3irty1]

Unless somebody falls, to me trading down makes the most sense.

Unless somebody falls, there is no point in trading up to our pick. :D

Orakpo falls, Was is a strong trade up possibility.

Monroe or Oher fall (possibly Andre too depending on the next few weeks), Philly or Det have strong trade up potential.

Raji falls, the Broncos could be lookin' to deal.

Stafford/Sanchez fall, the Jets, Bucs, and Detroit all could be suitors (I doubt we'd trade a QB pick in-division, but we'd probably do it for an OT).

Detroit holds the best pick in the draft (#33), I'm sure TT would love to get his hands on it.

Orakpo, Monroe, and Raji are all guys we could use ourselves.

I doubt we'll trade down unless someone is looking to trade up for a QB. Its a shame half of the teams who need QBs are in our division.

[KYPack]

Unless somebody falls, to me trading down makes the most sense.

Unless somebody falls, there is no point in trading up to our pick. :D

Orakpo falls, Was is a strong trade up possibility.

Monroe or Oher fall (possibly Andre too depending on the next few weeks), Philly or Det have strong trade up potential.

Raji falls, the Broncos could be lookin' to deal.

Stafford/Sanchez fall, the Jets, Bucs, and Detroit all could be suitors (I doubt we'd trade a QB pick in-division, but we'd probably do it for an OT).

Detroit holds the best pick in the draft (#33), I'm sure TT would love to get his hands on it.

See, I'm all screwed up. I was thinking that our pick would have the most potential ever for teams to trade up. But if Raji falls, don't we draft him?

The 33 pick is the best in the draft? That is in line with what I've been reading. This draft has a great top 50, but a lousy top 10. That figures, when we have the 9!

[red]

pft is saying that Houshmandzadeh is on his way to seattle

if they sign him, then they won't take crabtree at #4

which might not be good for us

[Waldo]

Unless somebody falls, to me trading down makes the most sense.

Unless somebody falls, there is no point in trading up to our pick. :D

Orakpo falls, Was is a strong trade up possibility.

Monroe or Oher fall (possibly Andre too depending on the next few weeks), Philly or Det have strong trade up potential.

Raji falls, the Broncos could be lookin' to deal.

Stafford/Sanchez fall, the Jets, Bucs, and Detroit all could be suitors (I doubt we'd trade a QB pick in-division, but we'd probably do it for an OT).

Detroit holds the best pick in the draft (#33), I'm sure TT would love to get his hands on it.

Orakpo, Monroe, and Raji are all guys we could use ourselves.

I doubt we'll trade down unless someone is looking to trade up for a QB. Its a shame half of the teams who need QBs are in our division.

At the combine Orakpo showed that he's probably best suited in a 4-3. He looked really stiff in the linebacker drills. Maybin looked a lot better. Maybin is the best 3-4 OLB in the draft, Orakpo is the best 4-3 DE. At 3-4 OLB, Cushing and Brown are also probably better options than Orakpo (though Brown probably isn't going to be a great rusher at the NFL level).

I head Kirwan talking about Brown, that his best position is 4-3 SLB, where he'd be a beast. Not explosive enough to be a 4-3 RuDE or good 3-4 OLB, but a very fluid athlete and great in space; stout at the POA and a good rusher compared to average LB. Perfect for a team that uses a 2 down mike (a la Hodge/Bishop), where the SLB and WLB are the 3 down backers. Too bad his draft status won't let him play it, first round guys don't play 4-3 SLB.

[3irty1]

Unless somebody falls, to me trading down makes the most sense.

Unless somebody falls, there is no point in trading up to our pick. :D

Orakpo falls, Was is a strong trade up possibility.

Monroe or Oher fall (possibly Andre too depending on the next few weeks), Philly or Det have strong trade up potential.

Raji falls, the Broncos could be lookin' to deal.

Stafford/Sanchez fall, the Jets, Bucs, and Detroit all could be suitors (I doubt we'd trade a QB pick in-division, but we'd probably do it for an OT).

Detroit holds the best pick in the draft (#33), I'm sure TT would love to get his hands on it.

Orakpo, Monroe, and Raji are all guys we could use ourselves.

I doubt we'll trade down unless someone is looking to trade up for a QB. Its a shame half of the teams who need QBs are in our division.

At the combine Orakpo showed that he's probably best suited in a 4-3. He looked really stiff in the linebacker drills. Maybin looked a lot better. Maybin is the best 3-4 OLB in the draft, Orakpo is the best 4-3 DE. At 3-4 OLB, Cushing and Brown are also probably better options than Orakpo (though Brown probably isn't going to be a great rusher at the NFL level).

I head Kirwan talking about Brown, that his best position is 4-3 SLB, where he'd be a beast. Not explosive enough to be a 4-3 RuDE or good 3-4 OLB, but a very fluid athlete and great in space; stout at the POA and a good rusher compared to average LB. Perfect for a team that uses a 2 down mike (a la Hodge/Bishop), where the SLB and WLB are the 3 down backers. Too bad his draft status won't let him play it, first round guys don't play 4-3 SLB.

Well if they were high on Maybin is he really such a reach that they would try to trade down rather than just get the guy they like?

[Guiness]

Unless somebody falls, to me trading down makes the most sense.

Question is Bretsky, who's 'someone'?

To trade down, have to find someone that wants it - there will be potential suitors regardless of who's left, but how interested will any of them really be in moving up.

If Detroit decides on an OT as opposed to a QB (which I think they should, they'll be drafting top 5 next year anyways) I'd be interested to see what happens. KC might grab one, but who else? Seattle? I don't think so, Hasselbeck is still good, and he's got some years left, so they don't go for one that high. We could forseeably be looking at the #9 pick with both top QB's on the board, if someone doesn't trade up before then.

[Guiness]

I'm not worried about Pickett's (or other NT's) age. It's not like an RB where losing a step changes his whole game. For the most part, you tend to be stronger at 32 then at 22, and as long as the knees hold out, you should be fine. And Grady has shown us that even if the knees don't hold out, you'll be at least ok.

[Fritz]

I'm so confused now....is Raji worth a #9 pick? If both QB's are on the board, will anyone want to trade with the Pack, knowing that San Fran will likely take one?

Who's Maybin? Is that same guy Waldo said in another thread is the best OLB prospect in the draft?

I wonder if the NFL guys ever get this overwhelmed, and just say, "ah, f_ck it, just pick some guy. I'm tired."

[Waldo]

I'm so confused now....is Raji worth a #9 pick? If both QB's are on the board, will anyone want to trade with the Pack, knowing that San Fran will likely take one?

Who's Maybin? Is that same guy Waldo said in another thread is the best OLB prospect in the draft?

I wonder if the NFL guys ever get this overwhelmed, and just say, "ah, f_ck it, just pick some guy. I'm tired."

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?Prospect_ID=1721

Basically a Demarcus Ware clone without as good of long speed. His shuttle/40 differential suggests he's really quick in short area speed and good at changing direction, his vertical leap suggests a very explosive first step. He has ape-like 35 1/4" arms, the longest of the highly rated DE's/OLB's (for keeping OT's away) (even longer than M. Johnson, the 6'7" kid from Ga Tech). Not a guy that is gonna run down a back 20 yards downfield though. He looked good in the LB drills, not as good as Brown, but close, but Brown lacks his long arms and first step. Very productive but young college player.

[Fritz]

Isd he the guy you said in another thread you wanted more than any other LB? Or is that that Barwin guy? Are they both LB's? Same side?

[Bretsky]

Unless somebody falls, to me trading down makes the most sense.

Question is Bretsky, who's 'someone'?

To trade down, have to find someone that wants it - there will be potential suitors regardless of who's left, but how interested will any of them really be in moving up.

If Detroit decides on an OT as opposed to a QB (which I think they should, they'll be drafting top 5 next year anyways) I'd be interested to see what happens. KC might grab one, but who else? Seattle? I don't think so, Hasselbeck is still good, and he's got some years left, so they don't go for one that high. We could forseeably be looking at the #9 pick with both top QB's on the board, if someone doesn't trade up before then.


To me Curry, Monroe and Crabtree are guys that jump out at me as being great values at #9; pretty sure they will all be gone.

[Fritz]

For me, this is where TT shines. That guy can wheel and deal. I was looking at the Packers' drafts since 05, and the earlier ones are looking better and better.

Simply put, I trust TT on draft day.

[SnakeLH2006]

For me, this is where TT shines. That guy can wheel and deal. I was looking at the Packers' drafts since 05, and the earlier ones are looking better and better.

Simply put, I trust TT on draft day.

Snake trusts TT too, hopefully I get out his basement one day. :shock:

Seriously though, the guy can wheel and deal, and I think we get some good value with our top 2 picks. Needs for the first time in years are plentiful though, as OT and NT are high values on Snake's board for GB's draft. It's a damn given we get an OT and a DL with the top 3 picks. Just a matter of where as TT WILL trade down at some point early, which is fine and helps retool the roster.

With Canty (who Snake tipped the Packers would go after a month ago) looking at deals (maybe with GB, but probably not) and the holy grail of dynamo DT's Colin Cole :shock: :D getting offers via JSOnline's articles, it looks grim in FA, so we better do some shopping via the draft. Just sucks we gotta get a deece OT and DL for THIS year, and it looks like the draft is the only route early on in FA for TT.

[packrulz]

Here's Kirwan's updated mock: http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80f0d305&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true
He has the Packers taking Jenkins, it all depends on if the QB's Stafford & Sanchez go in the top 9, I think they will. I like Jenkins at 9.

[wist43]

Here's Kirwan's updated mock: http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80f0d305&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true
He has the Packers taking Jenkins, it all depends on if the QB's Stafford & Sanchez go in the top 9, I think they will. I like Jenkins at 9.

Jenkins ran terribly at the combine, and looked gangly and slow footed doing it...

Haven't looked at him too hard yet, but at this point I'm saying pass.