Packers express interest in Chris Canty

[digitaldean]

National Football Post is reporting that Packers are talking to Chris Canty's agent.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/02/the-latest-scoop/

The link goes to scout.com (packerreport.com site). Unfortunately, it's for subscribers only....

Anyway, at least the tortoise is starting peak his head out, B....

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I really don't know much about this guy other than he plays for Dallas. If we sign him would he be a difference maker?

[Waldo]

His play is pretty similar to Jenkins. Good run stopper, puts a lot of heat on QB's, but doesn't get them on the ground that much. He'd be a huge upgrade over Jolly.

[3irty1]

Canty is a little longer and taller than Jenkins and without the injury history. He's better than his stats indicate. I'd like to see him in Green and Gold if the price was right.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Canty is a little longer and taller than Jenkins and without the injury history. He's better than his stats indicate. I'd like to see him in Green and Gold if the price was right.

I would also like us to make a play on the available safeties.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

His play is pretty similar to Jenkins. Good run stopper, puts a lot of heat on QB's, but doesn't get them on the ground that much. He'd be a huge upgrade over Jolly.


I guess he would be a good pickup them. I'm hoping Harrell makes it back from injury as I see him being very good at DE in this scheme.

[Joemailman]

National Football Post is reporting that Packers are talking to Chris Canty's agent.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/02/the-latest-scoop/

The link goes to scout.com (packerreport.com site). Unfortunately, it's for subscribers only....

Anyway, at least the tortoise is starting peak his head out, B....

He looks ready for action...

http://www.pondturtle.com/turtle.gif

[Guiness]

Tank lives on in infamy...it was him that coined the Turtle persona for TT, wasn't it? Or was it Bretsky with his sig...

Jenkins play without the injury history sounds pretty damn good to me. Can someone tell me why Dallas isn't re-signing him? I've heard Olshansky is lazy, which is why SD isn't re-signing him.

anyone else having trouble getting to PFT? Seems like they're overloaded.

[red]

well, they better do more then just talk to his agent if they really want him

he already has 4 teams lined up for meeting going through the weekend

he is suppose to fly from the east coast out to seattle though tomorrow

maybe TT can talk them making a pit stop on the way out there

[Partial]

They need some depth dreadfully. I say bring him in.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

They need some depth dreadfully. I say bring him in.

What would be a fair deal for him?

[red]

anyone else having trouble getting to PFT? Seems like they're overloaded.

pft is getting overwelmed

floria saw this happening so he made a deal with sportingnews.com to post the stuff there in case his site sent down

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/

[Waldo]

They need some depth dreadfully. I say bring him in.

Canty is not depth.

[Waldo]

They need some depth dreadfully. I say bring him in.

What would be a fair deal for him?

Fair or realistic

Fair is 6 yr 30M, 12M guaranteed

Realistic is 6 yr 65M, 25M guaranteed.

Just the way it works.

[texaspackerbacker]

It just all depends on the asking price and what others are willing to offer.

Canty is decent and likely has his best years ahead of him. He's not as good as a healthy Jenkins, and he's an upgrade, but not a huge one from Jolly. If Thompson can get him for a good price, I'm for it.

[Waldo]

It just all depends on the asking price and what others are willing to offer.

Canty is decent and likely has his best years ahead of him. He's not as good as a healthy Jenkins, and he's an upgrade, but not a huge one from Jolly. If Thompson can get him for a good price, I'm for it.

He's currently the best defensive lineman on the market and teams still have a lot of money to burn.

"A good price" is out of the picture. I expect he'll get signed for T. Harris type money.

[mission]

He IS a huge upgrade over Jolly.

[Waldo]

It just all depends on the asking price and what others are willing to offer.

Canty is decent and likely has his best years ahead of him. He's not as good as a healthy Jenkins, and he's an upgrade, but not a huge one from Jolly. If Thompson can get him for a good price, I'm for it.

He is just as good as a healthy Jenkins. It would be a stretch to say that he is better, but the way he plays the game and production is very similar to Cullen. Canty is a very good football player.

[Farley Face]

It just all depends on the asking price and what others are willing to offer.

Canty is decent and likely has his best years ahead of him. He's not as good as a healthy Jenkins, and he's an upgrade, but not a huge one from Jolly. If Thompson can get him for a good price, I'm for it.

He is just as good as a healthy Jenkins. It would be a stretch to say that he is better, but the way he plays the game and production is very similar to Cullen. Canty is a very good football player.

Why doesn't Dallas think so, or are they strapped by the cap?

[Waldo]

It just all depends on the asking price and what others are willing to offer.

Canty is decent and likely has his best years ahead of him. He's not as good as a healthy Jenkins, and he's an upgrade, but not a huge one from Jolly. If Thompson can get him for a good price, I'm for it.

He is just as good as a healthy Jenkins. It would be a stretch to say that he is better, but the way he plays the game and production is very similar to Cullen. Canty is a very good football player.

Why doesn't Dallas think so, or are they strapped by the cap?

Cap. Same reason that SD let Igor walk. In the Phillips 3-4 model, the DE is not a high paid position. Same thing with our offense. We pay for our expensive OT's with cheap G's. They pay for their expensive pass rushers with cheap DE's.

I have no doubt after this interest in Canty, we miss out and we're gonna put a full court press on Igor.

[steve823]

If we got him it would really help solidify our line, most importantly giving us more dept because then Jolly could be a solid backup. Id be happy if we got him and got Raji in the draft then our line will be good.

[Joemailman]

He IS a huge upgrade over Jolly.

Especially since Jolly goes on trial March 27. Can't rule out a suspension if Jolly is found guilty. With Jolly's situation and Jenkins' and Harrell's injury history, DE is a huge question mark right now.

[Packnut]

Well, he was going to sign a contract with Washington that had 20 million guarenteed. That is a lot of money. Washington pulled the offer when they signed AH.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

They need some depth dreadfully. I say bring him in.

What would be a fair deal for him?

Fair or realistic

Fair is 6 yr 30M, 12M guaranteed

Realistic is 6 yr 65M, 25M guaranteed.

Just the way it works.

He is not worth 11 million a year and I don't think we have to worry about TT paying him that amount of money.

[Joemailman]

Canty may find out that not everybody throws money around like Snyder in Washington. Not sure who the highest paid 3-4 DE in the league is, but 10-11 million per year signs awfully high.

[Packnut]

Canty may find out that not everybody throws money around like Snyder in Washington. Not sure who the highest paid 3-4 DE in the league is, but 10-11 million per year signs awfully high.

According to the insiders blog, the contract was 7-8 million a year, but that is still pretty high. He's better than what we have now, but how much is to much??????????????????????????

[LEWCWA]

They need some depth dreadfully. I say bring him in.

What would be a fair deal for him?

Fair or realistic

Fair is 6 yr 30M, 12M guaranteed

Realistic is 6 yr 65M, 25M guaranteed.

Just the way it works.

Canty isn't getting anywhere near 6 for 65

[LEWCWA]

and he isn't all that good...not the guy you want to break the bank for IMO

[Joemailman]

Canty is a very good player who at age 26 should just be entering his prime. Actually, 7-8 million per year isn't that outlandish considering the way contracts are escalating.

[Brando19]

Canty's a big dude!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDz3Bain2JM&feature=PlayList&p=E8D6E240EFB124B0&playnext=1&index=11

[Packnut]

Canty is a very good player who at age 26 should just be entering his prime. Actually, 7-8 million per year isn't that outlandish considering the way contracts are escalating.

True enough. We look at it from the angle of how over-paid these guys are, but the reality is in today's NFL it's just the way it is.

Ok, ya talked me into it. Give em 8 milion for 5 years with 20 million guarenteed. :lol:

[mission]

Im down for paying him 8 a year... he'd really help solidify our run D and make the transition to a 3-4 much easier.

We can't be counting on JH...

[Packnut]

I got a feeling if the Giants get him to come in, they'll get him. That would give them the best line rush in the NFL.

[mission]

I got a feeling if the Giants get him to come in, they'll get him. That would give them the best line rush in the NFL.

Only hope there is possibly an unclear role as Osi and Tuck are both considered DE's aren't they? I can't see any of those guys wanting to play inside but I might have it all twisted...

[Waldo]

They need some depth dreadfully. I say bring him in.

What would be a fair deal for him?

Fair or realistic

Fair is 6 yr 30M, 12M guaranteed

Realistic is 6 yr 65M, 25M guaranteed.

Just the way it works.

Canty isn't getting anywhere near 6 for 65

Years 5-6 typically don't count. They make the deal look pretty and blow peoples doors off. The guaranteed money is what counts. 25M isn't quite half what big Al got. Remember, 4-3 teams are chasing him to play DE, that is his market, not 3-4 DE or DT. His deal will be compared to Allen more than Big Al.

[Farley Face]

They need some depth dreadfully. I say bring him in.

What would be a fair deal for him?

Fair or realistic

Fair is 6 yr 30M, 12M guaranteed

Realistic is 6 yr 65M, 25M guaranteed.

Just the way it works.

Canty isn't getting anywhere near 6 for 65

Years 5-6 typically don't count. They make the deal look pretty and blow peoples doors off. The guaranteed money is what counts. 25M isn't quite half what big Al got. Remember, 4-3 teams are chasing him to play DE, that is his market, not 3-4 DE or DT. His deal will be compared to Allen more than Big Al.

I know this is apples and oranges, and likely belongs in another thread, but "just" $20 mill guaranteed for our QB is starting to look like a bargain. Vilma got $17 mill guaranteed for pete's sake.

[Packnut]

I got a feeling if the Giants get him to come in, they'll get him. That would give them the best line rush in the NFL.

Only hope there is possibly an unclear role as Osi and Tuck are both considered DE's aren't they? I can't see any of those guys wanting to play inside but I might have it all twisted...

My memory ain't what it used to be, but I believe Osi started out at OLB for them, at least that's the way I remember it.

[Waldo]

I got a feeling if the Giants get him to come in, they'll get him. That would give them the best line rush in the NFL.

Only hope there is possibly an unclear role as Osi and Tuck are both considered DE's aren't they? I can't see any of those guys wanting to play inside but I might have it all twisted...

My memory ain't what it used to be, but I believe Osi started out at OLB for them, at least that's the way I remember it.

Kiwi :D

[red]

Canty's a big dude!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDz3Bain2JM&feature=PlayList&p=E8D6E240EFB124B0&playnext=1&index=11

thats a great interview

sure as hell seems like the type of guy you would want on your team

[Packnut]

I got a feeling if the Giants get him to come in, they'll get him. That would give them the best line rush in the NFL.

Only hope there is possibly an unclear role as Osi and Tuck are both considered DE's aren't they? I can't see any of those guys wanting to play inside but I might have it all twisted...

My memory ain't what it used to be, but I believe Osi started out at OLB for them, at least that's the way I remember it.

Kiwi :D

Thanks, at this point I'll try anything. :oops:

[Packnut]

Just reading some stuff and it appears everyone wants Canty. I think the only shot we got is a solid offer and for Dom to light Canty's cell phone up and tell him how he'll be a stud in his 3-4 D. Begging might work....... :lol:

[Waldo]

They need some depth dreadfully. I say bring him in.

What would be a fair deal for him?

Fair or realistic

Fair is 6 yr 30M, 12M guaranteed

Realistic is 6 yr 65M, 25M guaranteed.

Just the way it works.

Canty isn't getting anywhere near 6 for 65

Years 5-6 typically don't count. They make the deal look pretty and blow peoples doors off. The guaranteed money is what counts. 25M isn't quite half what big Al got. Remember, 4-3 teams are chasing him to play DE, that is his market, not 3-4 DE or DT. His deal will be compared to Allen more than Big Al.

I know this is apples and oranges, and likely belongs in another thread, but "just" $20 mill guaranteed for our QB is starting to look like a bargain. Vilma got $17 mill guaranteed for pete's sake.

It is a bargain. Those brainless GBPG and JSO robots have no ideal how incredibly good of a deal our QB is signed to. "Pulled the trigger too early"...."not worth the big bucks".....BS, AR's contract is a steal. He'd easily pull in 45-50M guaranteed in the current market. In FA $$ and draft picks, Aaron is one of the most valuable players in the NFL (he is worth at least 2 top 10 draft picks, if not more). I think that he is only trumped by Big Ben, Romo, Rivers, and Cutler in value, though his value is real close to Cutler's and Romo's.

[Waldo]

Just reading some stuff and it appears everyone wants Canty. I think the only shot we got is a solid offer and for Dom to light Canty's cell phone up and tell him how he'll be a stud in his 3-4 D. Begging might work....... :lol:

IMO this is a strong indication that if Canty signs elsewhere a full court press is coming on Igor afterwards (the front has been silent there, no interest from 4-3 teams seemingly). Igor isn't as good, but he is much closer to Canty in quality than Jolly.

[MJZiggy]

Just reading some stuff and it appears everyone wants Canty. I think the only shot we got is a solid offer and for Dom to light Canty's cell phone up and tell him how he'll be a stud in his 3-4 D. Begging might work....... :lol:

Can't he just say he's God and wants Canty to sign in Green Bay?

[Farley Face]

Just reading some stuff and it appears everyone wants Canty. I think the only shot we got is a solid offer and for Dom to light Canty's cell phone up and tell him how he'll be a stud in his 3-4 D. Begging might work....... :lol:

IMO this is a strong indication that if Canty signs elsewhere a full court press is coming on Igor afterwards (the front has been silent there, no interest from 4-3 teams seemingly). Igor isn't as good, but he is much closer to Canty in quality than Jolly.

We already have one relatively high paid, by 3-4 standards, DE in Jenkins. Do we really want two (Canty, Igor)? Seems we should be paying the bucks to our OLBs (Kampman, whoever). You can't pay everyone. I agree we have a need at DE, but at what price? In a 3-4 front seven I'd rather allocate our dollars to a nose and the OLBs.

[Waldo]

Just reading some stuff and it appears everyone wants Canty. I think the only shot we got is a solid offer and for Dom to light Canty's cell phone up and tell him how he'll be a stud in his 3-4 D. Begging might work....... :lol:

IMO this is a strong indication that if Canty signs elsewhere a full court press is coming on Igor afterwards (the front has been silent there, no interest from 4-3 teams seemingly). Igor isn't as good, but he is much closer to Canty in quality than Jolly.

We already have one relatively high paid, by 3-4 standards, DE in Jenkins. Do we really want two (Canty, Igor)? Seems we should be paying the bucks to our OLBs (Kampman, whoever). You can't pay everyone. I agree we have a need at DE, but at what price? In a 3-4 front seven I'd rather allocate our dollars to a nose and the OLBs.

Whoever doesn't exist. The only possible whoevers for more than a year are Julius Peppers or a draft pick. Draft picks are cheap.

Cullens 4M/yr contract is dirt cheap.

I can't recall a 3-4 NT worth more than a low end starting contract making it to FA. They are fairly cheap since they never make it to FA, so a bidding war has never happened and somebody "pulling a Snyder" to reset the market on NT's hasn't happened.

[red]

Just reading some stuff and it appears everyone wants Canty. I think the only shot we got is a solid offer and for Dom to light Canty's cell phone up and tell him how he'll be a stud in his 3-4 D. Begging might work....... :lol:

IMO this is a strong indication that if Canty signs elsewhere a full court press is coming on Igor afterwards (the front has been silent there, no interest from 4-3 teams seemingly). Igor isn't as good, but he is much closer to Canty in quality than Jolly.

We already have one relatively high paid, by 3-4 standards, DE in Jenkins. Do we really want two (Canty, Igor)? Seems we should be paying the bucks to our OLBs (Kampman, whoever). You can't pay everyone. I agree we have a need at DE, but at what price? In a 3-4 front seven I'd rather allocate our dollars to a nose and the OLBs.

those de's are kind of important. if they don't do their job then there's no way those olb's are are going to be able to do much

[Farley Face]

Just reading some stuff and it appears everyone wants Canty. I think the only shot we got is a solid offer and for Dom to light Canty's cell phone up and tell him how he'll be a stud in his 3-4 D. Begging might work....... :lol:

IMO this is a strong indication that if Canty signs elsewhere a full court press is coming on Igor afterwards (the front has been silent there, no interest from 4-3 teams seemingly). Igor isn't as good, but he is much closer to Canty in quality than Jolly.

We already have one relatively high paid, by 3-4 standards, DE in Jenkins. Do we really want two (Canty, Igor)? Seems we should be paying the bucks to our OLBs (Kampman, whoever). You can't pay everyone. I agree we have a need at DE, but at what price? In a 3-4 front seven I'd rather allocate our dollars to a nose and the OLBs.

Whoever doesn't exist. The only possible whoevers for more than a year are Julius Peppers or a draft pick. Draft picks are cheap.

Cullens 4M/yr contract is dirt cheap.

I can't recall a 3-4 NT worth more than a low end starting contract making it to FA. They are fairly cheap since they never make it to FA, so a bidding war has never happened and somebody "pulling a Snyder" to reset the market on NT's hasn't happened.

I'd hate to be cash strapped due to big dollars invested in another DE when the opportunity to pay/draft the whoever comes around.

My point again is you can't pay everyone. It is about what positions you deem worthy of a high percentage of your payroll.

Do you invest in OTs or interior line? CBs or Ss? WRs or RBs? My impression is the OLBs in a 3-4 are the playmakers, the DEs are pulling the plow. I'd rather have the cap space to throw at the OLB than invest in a DE now when two other 3-4 teams have deemed them expendable (Dallas/SD).

I believe this same logic applies to why Collins will eventually get a solid offer from GB but not a bank breaker. Ask Sharper.

I believe TT would rather pay a CB than a S, and an OLB than a DE in our new defense.

[Waldo]

Just reading some stuff and it appears everyone wants Canty. I think the only shot we got is a solid offer and for Dom to light Canty's cell phone up and tell him how he'll be a stud in his 3-4 D. Begging might work....... :lol:

IMO this is a strong indication that if Canty signs elsewhere a full court press is coming on Igor afterwards (the front has been silent there, no interest from 4-3 teams seemingly). Igor isn't as good, but he is much closer to Canty in quality than Jolly.

We already have one relatively high paid, by 3-4 standards, DE in Jenkins. Do we really want two (Canty, Igor)? Seems we should be paying the bucks to our OLBs (Kampman, whoever). You can't pay everyone. I agree we have a need at DE, but at what price? In a 3-4 front seven I'd rather allocate our dollars to a nose and the OLBs.

Whoever doesn't exist. The only possible whoevers for more than a year are Julius Peppers or a draft pick. Draft picks are cheap.

Cullens 4M/yr contract is dirt cheap.

I can't recall a 3-4 NT worth more than a low end starting contract making it to FA. They are fairly cheap since they never make it to FA, so a bidding war has never happened and somebody "pulling a Snyder" to reset the market on NT's hasn't happened.

I'd hate to be cash strapped due to big dollars invested in another DE when the opportunity to pay/draft the whoever comes around.

My point again is you can't pay everyone. It is about what positions you deem worthy of a high percentage of your payroll.

Do you invest in OTs or interior line? CBs or Ss? WRs or RBs? My impression is the OLBs in a 3-4 are the playmakers, the DEs are pulling the plow. I'd rather have the cap space to throw at the OLB than invest in a DE now when two other 3-4 teams have deemed them expendable (Dallas/SD).

I believe this same logic applies to why Collins will eventually get a solid offer from GB but not a bank breaker. Ask Sharper.

I believe TT would rather pay a CB than a S, and an OLB than a DE in our new defense.

If you have to make a money decision, cut the DE and draft a new one if you need to sign your OLB (*cough* the Ware situation). We are at least 4-5 years away from paying an OLB big money. Canty will be near retirement by then.

[Farley Face]

Just reading some stuff and it appears everyone wants Canty. I think the only shot we got is a solid offer and for Dom to light Canty's cell phone up and tell him how he'll be a stud in his 3-4 D. Begging might work....... :lol:

IMO this is a strong indication that if Canty signs elsewhere a full court press is coming on Igor afterwards (the front has been silent there, no interest from 4-3 teams seemingly). Igor isn't as good, but he is much closer to Canty in quality than Jolly.

We already have one relatively high paid, by 3-4 standards, DE in Jenkins. Do we really want two (Canty, Igor)? Seems we should be paying the bucks to our OLBs (Kampman, whoever). You can't pay everyone. I agree we have a need at DE, but at what price? In a 3-4 front seven I'd rather allocate our dollars to a nose and the OLBs.

Whoever doesn't exist. The only possible whoevers for more than a year are Julius Peppers or a draft pick. Draft picks are cheap.

Cullens 4M/yr contract is dirt cheap.

I can't recall a 3-4 NT worth more than a low end starting contract making it to FA. They are fairly cheap since they never make it to FA, so a bidding war has never happened and somebody "pulling a Snyder" to reset the market on NT's hasn't happened.

I'd hate to be cash strapped due to big dollars invested in another DE when the opportunity to pay/draft the whoever comes around.

My point again is you can't pay everyone. It is about what positions you deem worthy of a high percentage of your payroll.

Do you invest in OTs or interior line? CBs or Ss? WRs or RBs? My impression is the OLBs in a 3-4 are the playmakers, the DEs are pulling the plow. I'd rather have the cap space to throw at the OLB than invest in a DE now when two other 3-4 teams have deemed them expendable (Dallas/SD).

I believe this same logic applies to why Collins will eventually get a solid offer from GB but not a bank breaker. Ask Sharper.

I believe TT would rather pay a CB than a S, and an OLB than a DE in our new defense.

If you have to make a money decision, cut the DE and draft a new one if you need to sign your OLB (*cough* the Ware situation). We are at least 4-5 years away from paying an OLB big money. Canty will be near retirement by then.

We will need to extend an OLB (Kampman) to big money sooner than later. Or were you assuming that and speaking 4-5 years for his counterpart on the other side?

[Partial]

With Cole likely gone according to JSO, they need some depth badly.

They cannot go into the season counting on Harrell or Jenkins. Both have been perpetually injured, and when they have played the past two years it has been less than stellar as a result.

With that said, Jolly didn't have a great year last year and is switching positions as well. They need DE's like crazy!!!

[Waldo]

Just reading some stuff and it appears everyone wants Canty. I think the only shot we got is a solid offer and for Dom to light Canty's cell phone up and tell him how he'll be a stud in his 3-4 D. Begging might work....... :lol:

IMO this is a strong indication that if Canty signs elsewhere a full court press is coming on Igor afterwards (the front has been silent there, no interest from 4-3 teams seemingly). Igor isn't as good, but he is much closer to Canty in quality than Jolly.

We already have one relatively high paid, by 3-4 standards, DE in Jenkins. Do we really want two (Canty, Igor)? Seems we should be paying the bucks to our OLBs (Kampman, whoever). You can't pay everyone. I agree we have a need at DE, but at what price? In a 3-4 front seven I'd rather allocate our dollars to a nose and the OLBs.

Whoever doesn't exist. The only possible whoevers for more than a year are Julius Peppers or a draft pick. Draft picks are cheap.

Cullens 4M/yr contract is dirt cheap.

I can't recall a 3-4 NT worth more than a low end starting contract making it to FA. They are fairly cheap since they never make it to FA, so a bidding war has never happened and somebody "pulling a Snyder" to reset the market on NT's hasn't happened.

I'd hate to be cash strapped due to big dollars invested in another DE when the opportunity to pay/draft the whoever comes around.

My point again is you can't pay everyone. It is about what positions you deem worthy of a high percentage of your payroll.

Do you invest in OTs or interior line? CBs or Ss? WRs or RBs? My impression is the OLBs in a 3-4 are the playmakers, the DEs are pulling the plow. I'd rather have the cap space to throw at the OLB than invest in a DE now when two other 3-4 teams have deemed them expendable (Dallas/SD).

I believe this same logic applies to why Collins will eventually get a solid offer from GB but not a bank breaker. Ask Sharper.

I believe TT would rather pay a CB than a S, and an OLB than a DE in our new defense.

If you have to make a money decision, cut the DE and draft a new one if you need to sign your OLB (*cough* the Ware situation). We are at least 4-5 years away from paying an OLB big money. Canty will be near retirement by then.

We will need to extend an OLB (Kampman) to big money sooner than later. Or were you assuming that and speaking 4-5 years for his counterpart on the other side?

Kamp plays on the left. He's already top 5 for LDE/SOLB. How much more do you want to pay him? If he moved to the premium position (RDE, WOLB), he'd get the big $$, as is he pretty maxed out, and he prefers the side he is on. Nothing wrong with that, just means Kamp isn't a greedy player seeking every buck possible. He might get a 1M/yr more than he gets, but that's about it, and it has little effect on the cap.

[Bretsky]

Given our Cap Situation, I'd jump at Canty. IMO he's a bit better than a healthy Jenkins and has nice upside. Has plenty of NFL Lifetime left.

However, this would be the type of prize that I don't see GB competing for.
Maybe this is a year I admit I'm wrong about TTT. He's come out of his shell quite early in free agency by already making a call so I give him credit for that.

Canty will get paid; my guess is 8+ Million a year on average. If we bring him in, draft the NG, our defense looks so much better going into next year

But Canty will be pursued by a lot of teams; IMO it's out of character for TT to win a bidding war................and this dude will get paid.

Get er done TTT

[Guiness]

With Cole likely gone according to JSO, they need some depth badly.

They cannot go into the season counting on Harrell or Jenkins. Both have been perpetually injured, and when they have played the past two years it has been less than stellar as a result.

With that said, Jolly didn't have a great year last year and is switching positions as well. They need DE's like crazy!!!

What???

When Jenkins has been on the field these past 2 yrs, the results have been pretty damn close to stellar by any account.

[TheCheese]

Given our Cap Situation, I'd jump at Canty. IMO he's a bit better than a healthy Jenkins and has nice upside. Has plenty of NFL Lifetime left.

However, this would be the type of prize that I don't see GB competing for.
Maybe this is a year I admit I'm wrong about TTT. He's come out of his shell quite early in free agency by already making a call so I give him credit for that.

Canty will get paid; my guess is 8+ Million a year on average. If we bring him in, draft the NG, our defense looks so much better going into next year

But Canty will be pursued by a lot of teams; IMO it's out of character for TT to win a bidding war................and this dude will get paid.

Get er done TTT

Well he was the highest bidder for Adam Vinatieri, Lavar Arrington, Charles Woodson...

[LEWCWA]

They need some depth dreadfully. I say bring him in.

What would be a fair deal for him?

Fair or realistic

Fair is 6 yr 30M, 12M guaranteed

Realistic is 6 yr 65M, 25M guaranteed.

Just the way it works.

Canty isn't getting anywhere near 6 for 65

Years 5-6 typically don't count. They make the deal look pretty and blow peoples doors off. The guaranteed money is what counts. 25M isn't quite half what big Al got. Remember, 4-3 teams are chasing him to play DE, that is his market, not 3-4 DE or DT. His deal will be compared to Allen more than Big Al.

I know this is apples and oranges, and likely belongs in another thread, but "just" $20 mill guaranteed for our QB is starting to look like a bargain. Vilma got $17 mill guaranteed for pete's sake.

It is a bargain. Those brainless GBPG and JSO robots have no ideal how incredibly good of a deal our QB is signed to. "Pulled the trigger too early"...."not worth the big bucks".....BS, AR's contract is a steal. He'd easily pull in 45-50M guaranteed in the current market. In FA $$ and draft picks, Aaron is one of the most valuable players in the NFL (he is worth at least 2 top 10 draft picks, if not more). I think that he is only trumped by Big Ben, Romo, Rivers, and Cutler in value, though his value is real close to Cutler's and Romo's.

Canty is a 3-4 DE, thats it. He can clog shit up. If you break the bank for this guy, you will rue the day....This place will be loaded with what the hell did way pay this guy for?topics!

[mission]

Canty is a 3-4 DE, thats it. He can clog shit up. If you break the bank for this guy, you will rue the day....This place will be loaded with what the hell did way pay this guy for?topics!

If that's the case then what they say is right.

You just can't win.

[Fritz]

What has been interesting to me this morning has been the fan reaction to TT's interest, both here and on the JSO blog comments section. The vast majority of posters, here and elsewhere, seem to rue TT's supposed lack of action - he won't sign a big name, he's cheap, he's the turtle, etc. Not everyone, but many, many people seem to take this tack.

Yet perusing the threads here and elsewhere this morning reveals a number - a large number - of comments that run along the lines of "Canty is in no way worth a big contract, if TT gets him it'll be the stupidest thing he's done yet," etc. etc.

This confirms my sense that TT gets an inordinate amount of fan criticism. He'll be skewered if he doesn't jump in right away and throw money at Canty, and it appears too that several folks will skewer him if he does sign Canty.

On another note, this interest in Canty makes me wonder what JH's future with the Packers is. Do they know something about his back that we don't?

[Fred's Slacks]

What has been interesting to me this morning has been the fan reaction to TT's interest, both here and on the JSO blog comments section. The vast majority of posters, here and elsewhere, seem to rue TT's supposed lack of action - he won't sign a big name, he's cheap, he's the turtle, etc. Not everyone, but many, many people seem to take this tack.

Yet perusing the threads here and elsewhere this morning reveals a number - a large number - of comments that run along the lines of "Canty is in no way worth a big contract, if TT gets him it'll be the stupidest thing he's done yet," etc. etc.

This confirms my sense that TT gets an inordinate amount of fan criticism. He'll be skewered if he doesn't jump in right away and throw money at Canty, and it appears too that several folks will skewer him if he does sign Canty.

On another note, this interest in Canty makes me wonder what JH's future with the Packers is. Do they know something about his back that we don't?

Yeah, TT can't please everyone. I wonder if there are a lot of Steelers fans that complain about their lack of FA activity?

Regarding your JH comment, I think they know exactly what we do. We can't expect to get anything out of JH. If we do it is just a bonus. We have to prepare as if he's not on the roster.

[Pugger]

Just reading some stuff and it appears everyone wants Canty. I think the only shot we got is a solid offer and for Dom to light Canty's cell phone up and tell him how he'll be a stud in his 3-4 D. Begging might work....... :lol:

Can't he just say he's God and wants Canty to sign in Green Bay?

:lol: :lol:

I must say I'm pleasantly surprised to see TT actively pursuing Canty. He looks like one big guy and with Kampy moving to LB this would be a nice move. I heard Seattle and the Gmen are interested too. One thing we have going for us is they use the 4-3 and Canty is a 3-4 guy. It will be very interesting to see what happens. I hope this dispells the notion of TT's aversion to FA.

[Rastak]

I guess you can call "wanting to schedule a visit" active.

Per Adam Schefter:


After his Friday trip to Washington was canceled, free agent defensive end Chris Canty revised his itinerary. He now is scheduled to visit the Giants (Sat./Sun) then the Seahawks (Sun/Mon). The Packers, 49ers and Titans still want to schedule a visit but nothing has been scheduled yet.

http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/02/27/canty-has-become-very-popular-following-haynesworths-signing/

[Bretsky]

What has been interesting to me this morning has been the fan reaction to TT's interest, both here and on the JSO blog comments section. The vast majority of posters, here and elsewhere, seem to rue TT's supposed lack of action - he won't sign a big name, he's cheap, he's the turtle, etc. Not everyone, but many, many people seem to take this tack.

Yet perusing the threads here and elsewhere this morning reveals a number - a large number - of comments that run along the lines of "Canty is in no way worth a big contract, if TT gets him it'll be the stupidest thing he's done yet," etc. etc.

This confirms my sense that TT gets an inordinate amount of fan criticism. He'll be skewered if he doesn't jump in right away and throw money at Canty, and it appears too that several folks will skewer him if he does sign Canty.

On another note, this interest in Canty makes me wonder what JH's future with the Packers is. Do they know something about his back that we don't?


I give TT credit for getting on the phone, or having somebody do it. I don't expect to get Canty; never did. I think those who think he's one dimensional are incorrect. Guy has very good talent and would fit our scheme just fine. And he's entering his prime

[LL2]

It would be nice to see TT get it done. Canty is looking for a 3-4 system, and the Giants are not a 3-4 system. TT can't rely entirely on Jenkins and Jolly or the draft for his DE's next year. He needs to bolster that line. I wonder what kind of money Canty is looking to get.

[Brohm]

Per JSO, Canty would rather play in a 4-3 where he can play end on 1st and 2nd and rotate to DT on passing downs.

[Bossman641]

I guess you can call "wanting to schedule a visit" active.

Per Adam Schefter:


After his Friday trip to Washington was canceled, free agent defensive end Chris Canty revised his itinerary. He now is scheduled to visit the Giants (Sat./Sun) then the Seahawks (Sun/Mon). The Packers, 49ers and Titans still want to schedule a visit but nothing has been scheduled yet.

http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/02/27/canty-has-become-very-popular-following-haynesworths-signing/

Hey, come on Rastak. That is active for us. :D

[Packnut]

Just reading some stuff and it appears everyone wants Canty. I think the only shot we got is a solid offer and for Dom to light Canty's cell phone up and tell him how he'll be a stud in his 3-4 D. Begging might work....... :lol:

Can't he just say he's God and wants Canty to sign in Green Bay?

Ya can never use a classic to much. :lol:

[Packnut]

What has been interesting to me this morning has been the fan reaction to TT's interest, both here and on the JSO blog comments section. The vast majority of posters, here and elsewhere, seem to rue TT's supposed lack of action - he won't sign a big name, he's cheap, he's the turtle, etc. Not everyone, but many, many people seem to take this tack.

Yet perusing the threads here and elsewhere this morning reveals a number - a large number - of comments that run along the lines of "Canty is in no way worth a big contract, if TT gets him it'll be the stupidest thing he's done yet," etc. etc.

This confirms my sense that TT gets an inordinate amount of fan criticism. He'll be skewered if he doesn't jump in right away and throw money at Canty, and it appears too that several folks will skewer him if he does sign Canty.

On another note, this interest in Canty makes me wonder what JH's future with the Packers is. Do they know something about his back that we don't?

I'm one of Teddy's harsher critics and all I ask is that the man at least make a freakin attempt to get SOMETHING done. Sitting on your hands gets you a ton of cap space, but also gets you 6-10 and sitting on your ass for the play-offs.

The passive "build through the draft" angle only works IF you don't miss on your high picks, but he has SEVERAL times now. Harrell, Hodge and Brohm come to mind. Not gonna debate the talent angle for Brohm, but we had larger needs and this pick did not and will not help us in the immediate future.

A good GM MUST use free agency as a tool. It's ironic that his best all around GM move was getting Woodson. I agree signing ANY FA is a roll of the dice but again, that is what they get paid for!

Yes Canty is expensive. However, he's miles ahead in talent of what we have now. His signing would bring IMMEDIATE help.

[Waldo]

What has been interesting to me this morning has been the fan reaction to TT's interest, both here and on the JSO blog comments section. The vast majority of posters, here and elsewhere, seem to rue TT's supposed lack of action - he won't sign a big name, he's cheap, he's the turtle, etc. Not everyone, but many, many people seem to take this tack.

Yet perusing the threads here and elsewhere this morning reveals a number - a large number - of comments that run along the lines of "Canty is in no way worth a big contract, if TT gets him it'll be the stupidest thing he's done yet," etc. etc.

This confirms my sense that TT gets an inordinate amount of fan criticism. He'll be skewered if he doesn't jump in right away and throw money at Canty, and it appears too that several folks will skewer him if he does sign Canty.

On another note, this interest in Canty makes me wonder what JH's future with the Packers is. Do they know something about his back that we don't?

I'm one of Teddy's harsher critics and all I ask is that the man at least make a freakin attempt to get SOMETHING done. Sitting on your hands gets you a ton of cap space, but also gets you 6-10 and sitting on your ass for the play-offs.

The passive "build through the draft" angle only works IF you don't miss on your high picks, but he has SEVERAL times now. Harrell, Hodge and Brohm come to mind. Not gonna debate the talent angle for Brohm, but we had larger needs and this pick did not and will not help us in the immediate future.

A good GM MUST use free agency as a tool. It's ironic that his best all around GM move was getting Woodson. I agree signing ANY FA is a roll of the dice but again, that is what they get paid for!

Yes Canty is expensive. However, he's miles ahead in talent of what we have now. His signing would bring IMMEDIATE help.

We had larger needs than a backup QB? Backup QB was a HUGE need.

[Patler]

I'm one of Teddy's harsher critics and all I ask is that the man at least make a freakin attempt to get SOMETHING done. Sitting on your hands gets you a ton of cap space, but also gets you 6-10 and sitting on your ass for the play-offs.
....
A good GM MUST use free agency as a tool. It's ironic that his best all around GM move was getting Woodson. I agree signing ANY FA is a roll of the dice but again, that is what they get paid for!

Yes Canty is expensive. However, he's miles ahead in talent of what we have now. His signing would bring IMMEDIATE help.

1. I have often wondered how it is that you know him well-enough to call him "Teddy". :D :lol:

2. I disagree that his best all around GM move was getting Woodson. His best all around GM move was restoring a healthy salary cap situation. His second best all around GM move was acquiring a capable successor to Favre. Many teams search for years to find a capable successor to their long-term starting QB. It appears the Packers pulled it off about as well as anyone could possibly hope for, and may have their QB for the next 10 years. At best, Woodson comes in as his third best move, depending on whether or not hiring McCarthy proves to be a long-term success.

[Waldo]

I'm one of Teddy's harsher critics and all I ask is that the man at least make a freakin attempt to get SOMETHING done. Sitting on your hands gets you a ton of cap space, but also gets you 6-10 and sitting on your ass for the play-offs.
....
A good GM MUST use free agency as a tool. It's ironic that his best all around GM move was getting Woodson. I agree signing ANY FA is a roll of the dice but again, that is what they get paid for!

Yes Canty is expensive. However, he's miles ahead in talent of what we have now. His signing would bring IMMEDIATE help.

1. I have often wondered how it is that you know him well-enough to call him "Teddy". :D :lol:

2. I disagree that his best all around GM move was getting Woodson. His best all around GM move was restoring a healthy salary cap situation. His second best all around GM move was acquiring a capable successor to Favre. Many teams search for years to find a capable successor to their long-term starting QB. It appears the Packers pulled it off about as well as anyone could possibly hope for, and may have their QB for the next 10 years. At best, Woodson comes in as his third best move, depending on whether or not hiring McCarthy proves to be a long-term success.

The drafting of Greg Jennings has to be right up there as well.

[BallHawk]

Cutting Fergy also has to be considered one of his shining achievements.

[Guiness]

Cutting Fergy also has to be considered one of his shining achievements. :rs:

[Lurker64]

The passive "build through the draft" angle only works IF you don't miss on your high picks, but he has SEVERAL times now. Harrell, Hodge and Brohm come to mind. Not gonna debate the talent angle for Brohm, but we had larger needs and this pick did not and will not help us in the immediate future.

I think this is an unreasonable standard. Every team misses on draft picks, high ones low ones, whatever; even the perennially great teams that almost entirely avoid free agency. New England trading up to get Chad Jackson with a high second is a bigger flub than any of Thompson's supposed high misses (Harrell is still on the roster and could be good if he can get healthy, Brohm contributed exactly as much last year as you hoped he would have as the backup QB, and Hodge was much cheaper in terms of picks than Jackson.)

Every team misses on draft picks, it's absurd to expect perfection. The issue is that "missing in Free Agency" is a lot more costly than "missing on a draft pick." You get second round picks for free, every year like clockwork. Messing up the cap isn't nearly as forgiving.

[Patler]

Sitting on your hands gets you a ton of cap space, but also gets you 6-10 and sitting on your ass for the play-offs.

I forgot to mention, it also apparently gets you a trip to the NFC Championship game.

[wist43]

Per JSO, Canty would rather play in a 4-3 where he can play end on 1st and 2nd and rotate to DT on passing downs.

I think that is his more natural role; however, despite being 6'7", he holds the point very well, and is surprisingly stout against the run for a man his size, e.g., I think he could man an end position in a 3-4 very well.

I liked Canty coming out, and he turned out to be a decent player... can't imagine why TT called him, lol :))

[Fred's Slacks]

A good GM MUST use free agency as a tool. It's ironic that his best all around GM move was getting Woodson. I agree signing ANY FA is a roll of the dice but again, that is what they get paid for!

Not to make this the pick on Packnut thread, but I have to chime in here.

How does TT not use FA as a tool? He has signed FA's every offseason. He has had a large number of FA's in for visits over the years that haven't panned out. To say that he "sits on his hands" is just not true. Your first sentence implies that he doesn't use it at all then in the very next sentence you site an example of how he used it successfully.

Also, name 1 GM that has won a Super Bowl in the last 5 years and used a big FA signing to get there.

[PlantPage55]

Sitting on your hands gets you a ton of cap space, but also gets you 6-10 and sitting on your ass for the play-offs.

I forgot to mention, it also apparently gets you a trip to the NFC Championship game.

Haven't you heard? Success only belongs to Brett Favre. All the failure belongs to TT.

[Partial]

With Cole likely gone according to JSO, they need some depth badly.

They cannot go into the season counting on Harrell or Jenkins. Both have been perpetually injured, and when they have played the past two years it has been less than stellar as a result.

With that said, Jolly didn't have a great year last year and is switching positions as well. They need DE's like crazy!!!

What???

When Jenkins has been on the field these past 2 yrs, the results have been pretty damn close to stellar by any account.

What? This year, he came out hot for the first 4 weeks, then got hurt.

The previous year? Coaches nagged him consistently to step up his game and to play through the injuries. He was completely ineffective and slow in 2007. He only had 1 sack in 2007, and I don't recall him consistently getting much pressure, either.

With his injury history, it would be a grave error to count on him as a 16 game starter. They need to fortify the depth behind him big time.

With that said, it's a slippery slope because you do not want to pay a guy like Canty premiere money (8 mil a year is a lot, and figure it hits 8.5-9 when all is said and done). Imagine trying to resign a guy like Kamp or Jolly if they outperformed him, then. They'll sure have to beat Canty's annual salary.

It might be wise to keep trying to find some taller, quicker DTs late in the draft that we can convert. They'll certainly come cheaper.

[Guiness]

A good GM MUST use free agency as a tool. It's ironic that his best all around GM move was getting Woodson. I agree signing ANY FA is a roll of the dice but again, that is what they get paid for!

Not to make this the pick on Packnut thread, but I have to chime in here.

How does TT not use FA as a tool? He has signed FA's every offseason. He has had a large number of FA's in for visits over the years that haven't panned out. To say that he "sits on his hands" is just not true. Your first sentence implies that he doesn't use it at all then in the very next sentence you site an example of how he used it successfully.

Also, name 1 GM that has won a Super Bowl in the last 5 years and used a big FA signing to get there.

You'd have to define 'get there'.

Plexico was a key part of the Giants, and he was an FA. Warner went to the Cards as an FA. So while the teams may not have been 'built' through FA, in each case a key component was obtained that way.

[Fred's Slacks]

With Cole likely gone according to JSO, they need some depth badly.

They cannot go into the season counting on Harrell or Jenkins. Both have been perpetually injured, and when they have played the past two years it has been less than stellar as a result.

With that said, Jolly didn't have a great year last year and is switching positions as well. They need DE's like crazy!!!

What???

When Jenkins has been on the field these past 2 yrs, the results have been pretty damn close to stellar by any account.

What? This year, he came out hot for the first 4 weeks, then got hurt.

The previous year? Coaches nagged him consistently to step up his game and to play through the injuries. He was completely ineffective and slow in 2007. He only had 1 sack in 2007, and I don't recall him consistently getting much pressure, either.

With his injury history, it would be a grave error to count on him as a 16 game starter. They need to fortify the depth behind him big time.

With that said, it's a slippery slope because you do not want to pay a guy like Canty premiere money (8 mil a year is a lot, and figure it hits 8.5-9 when all is said and done). Imagine trying to resign a guy like Kamp or Jolly if they outperformed him, then. They'll sure have to beat Canty's annual salary.

It might be wise to keep trying to find some taller, quicker DTs late in the draft that we can convert. They'll certainly come cheaper.

Well said. If we can get Canty in the 6-7 mil per year range, then I'm all for it. Otherwise, it will be hard to keep the other guys happy if they perform. If we can front load the contract enough, he might be willing to take less per year in order to cash in early. I'm not going to hold my breath though.

[Fred's Slacks]

A good GM MUST use free agency as a tool. It's ironic that his best all around GM move was getting Woodson. I agree signing ANY FA is a roll of the dice but again, that is what they get paid for!

Not to make this the pick on Packnut thread, but I have to chime in here.

How does TT not use FA as a tool? He has signed FA's every offseason. He has had a large number of FA's in for visits over the years that haven't panned out. To say that he "sits on his hands" is just not true. Your first sentence implies that he doesn't use it at all then in the very next sentence you site an example of how he used it successfully.

Also, name 1 GM that has won a Super Bowl in the last 5 years and used a big FA signing to get there.

You'd have to define 'get there'.

Plexico was a key part of the Giants, and he was an FA. Warner went to the Cards as an FA. So while the teams may not have been 'built' through FA, in each case a key component was obtained that way.

I'm sure every super bowl winner in the FA era has had one player that was at some point picked up in FA. I'm talking about the big money FAs everyone clamors over. The last 6 winners use FA as a supplemental tool, and were never in the bargaining for the big money guys. Plaxico was picked up by the previous GM who loved to sign big money FAs. Reese signed virtually no one the year they won it all. Warner was not a big money FA and was supposed to be the backup this year. If anyone wanted him all they had to do was out bid the 1yr $4 mil contract the Cardinals offered in 2005. These are not examples of signing a big money FA to put you over the top.

The closest teams to doing it were the Patriots 2 seasons ago and the Eagles back in 2004. Both teams were already good but made big moves in the offseason to try to put themselves over the top. Both lost in the super bowl to teams that had no big money FA pickups that year.

[Fritz]

Here's what I want to know - Waldo. You are claiming that if the Pack misses on Canty, for whatever reason, we should expect an all-out pursuit of Igor Olshansky.

1. You sure you don't work for the Packers? Are you Mark Murphy or something? That is to say, what makes you think the Pack will go in this direction?

2. I've heard - only heard - that Olshansky is a loafer, a bad attitude guy, etc. What has anyone else heard? Anybody have any credible info?

3. If we land this Igor Olshansky, are we looking at a hunchback playing defensive end? Can MM make him wear a lab coat and in a Peter Lorrie voice ask Igor to get him a brain to put into Barbre's body? (Wasn't it Barbe who people were saying sounds pretty not-smart?)

[Waldo]

Here's what I want to know - Waldo. You are claiming that if the Pack misses on Canty, for whatever reason, we should expect an all-out pursuit of Igor Olshansky.

1. You sure you don't work for the Packers? Are you Mark Murphy or something? That is to say, what makes you think the Pack will go in this direction?

2. I've heard - only heard - that Olshansky is a loafer, a bad attitude guy, etc. What has anyone else heard? Anybody have any credible info?

3. If we land this Igor Olshansky, are we looking at a hunchback playing defensive end? Can MM make him wear a lab coat and in a Peter Lorrie voice ask Igor to get him a brain to put into Barbre's body? (Wasn't it Barbe who people were saying sounds pretty not-smart?)

No. Igor plays the same position as Canty and is pretty good. He'd be a lot cheaper. Probably a better fit on the team too. He's young too.

Something I do know:
Been watching the airport all day. At about the exact same time, 2 private jets left the GB airport, one went to Scottsdale, one went to Ft. Myers. Each one is owned by a Packers board member (2 different guys). One (the one in Ft. Myers) is known to be used by the Packers (it is the one Murphy took down to Hattiesburgh). Both had return flights flights to GB scheduled before they landed. The Arizona flight was on the ground for 25 minutes and headed back to GB. It just landed a few minutes ago. The Ft. Myers flight just canceled it's return flight flight plan. There's a good chance that there is a FA in GB right now that was picked up in Scottsdale. Hard to make out whats going on in Ft. Myers, they planned to be on the ground for 30 minutes before they landed, but that has changed.

[Fritz]

Dang, Waldo, you are the best thing that has happened to my Packer life since the internet.

Twenty years ago the only news I got was the snippets in the Detroit paper or the transactions that were reported in 4 point type days later. Now I'm up-to-the-minute with the info.

You're awesome, Waldo.

Thanks for the info.

Uh...anybody know what free agents are based in Fort Myers area and in Scottsdale (would that be Olshansky?)?

[mission]

Yeah, Waldo is awesome!! :D

Now we just gotta figure out who lives in those cities or what agents are based out of those and who they represent.

[Waldo]

I've heard - only heard - that Olshansky is a loafer, a bad attitude guy, etc. What has anyone else heard? Anybody have any credible info?

That's the JSO blog said. Everyone I've talked to, including SD fans, disagrees with that sentiment completely. They're letting him walk since SD treats DE's like TT treats G's. They don't pay a lot so that they can pay their pass rushers and NT's alot. TT pays for his fancy tackles with cheap guards.

I've become so jaded agaisnt the JSO and GBPG that I can't even read them any more, basically assuming every word they write has an agenda, and that their "scouts" are nothing more than their beer drinking buddies. I do talk to an actual scout (not a pro scout) and several guys that played D1 college football, they always disagree with the newspapers scout's assessments.

I thought that we weren't going to be after Canty, according to their sources. The JSO is full of crap. If Igor is the next best option if we can't get Canty, why not paint him in a bad light when they know that he's a probable signing, that way they can rip on TT when he does sign him. They never, ever, ever can praise TT, and often print negative seed stories when they know something is going to happen (see the latest talk that Pickett is inadequate at NT) so that they can rip on it when it does happen.

[sheepshead]

That's cool beans.

[Lurker64]

2. I've heard - only heard - that Olshansky is a loafer, a bad attitude guy, etc. What has anyone else heard? Anybody have any credible info?

I haven't met the guy, so I can't really comment on his personality or otherwise, but I have seen him play and there are a few flaws to his game.

For one, he doesn't display great lateral quickness, he's not really below average for a guy his size who plays his position, but he is certainly not greatly above average. Also, he doesn't harass the QB as much as some other guys do, even guys who don't get sacks like Jenkins or Canty. You will more often see a Jenkins or a Canty chasing after a QB (but not necessarily recording a sack) than you will Olshansky. Olshansky records fewer pressures, but tends to get sacks a better percentage of the time.

The main positive on the guy is that he is almost unbelievably strong. He's difficult to block because it's virtually impossible to overpower the guy. So given the position and role he'll be asked to play he's a good fit and a definite upgrade over Jolly. The fact that he doesn't move side to side quickly isn't a terrible liability as a 3-4 DE (since he isn't responsible for outside contain), and the fact that he isn't a primary pass rusher in the 3-4 justifies his relative lack of pressures. What he will do is "complicate blocking schemes" which is exactly what you want out of him.

Unlike Canty, nobody is seriously going to look at Olshansky as a 4-3 DE, but as a 3-4 DE Olshansky isn't really far behind Canty. Personally, if we can't get a good deal on Canty (unlikely because of the degree of interest), I hope we land Olshansky ASAP.

[falco]

Dang, Waldo, you are the best thing that has happened to my Packer life since the internet.

dang fritz, this hurts. i didn't even merit consideration?? and after all the nice things I said about you. you have been my favorite posted in last July, but waldo comes in and sweeps you off your feet and thats the end of it...

[Fritz]

Thanks for the info, fellas.

Waldo I too have become rather jaded, particularly about the JSO. I'm not quite sure why there's so much vitriol towards Ted - more than Sherman even faced. To my mine, TT is an excellent GM. Not perfect, but I'd rather have him than just about anyone else, frankly. Part of that is simply that he fits my own personality - I've always believed that the draft is the best way to build a team, with FA used to fill in some gaps. I've never liked teams that try to "buy" their way in - I don't think it works, period. Even the Yankee championship teams back in the day featured much home grown talent like Jeter and Williams. I firmly believe D. Snyder will never be able to buy his way to the Super Bowl.

So I am prejudiced toward TT because he fits my style. Beyond that, though, I just think the guy knows how to evaluate talent, and I think he knows how to use the draft to trade to get to where he can get the maximum talent. This is in part due to his belief in the law of averages - the more picks you got, the better your chances, generally speaking (though they can't be all 7th rounders). Read a gret article in a Detroit paper a year or two ago that confirmed this through some research a couple of professors did.

My sense - and the numbers back this up - is that TT sees the most value in the second and third rounds. Contrary to the opinion of some, TT does NOT love the 7th round best; he has in fact has more second round picks than any other, closely followed by the seventh and third rounds, I believe.

So I trust TT. I just do. This past year sucked, yes, but we'll see if they bounce back. And we'll see if MM is the right guy for the job.

[Lurker64]

My sense - and the numbers back this up - is that TT sees the most value in the second and third rounds. Contrary to the opinion of some, TT does NOT love the 7th round best; he has in fact has more second round picks than any other, closely followed by the seventh and third rounds, I believe.

There's actually some serious scholarship to back up the utility of second and third round picks. I would refer anybody who wants to read more about this to Massey and Thaler's paper Overconfidence vs. Market Efficiency in the National Football League, which is, as far as I can tell, no longer available for free on the internet, but if you google "Massey Thaler NFL draft" you'll get some results.

The paper's really interesting and is full of lots of data and compelling graphs like:

http://www.coyoteblog.com/photos/uncategorized/curve1.jpg

The important thing to look at on that graph is the "surplus" line, which is the difference between the curves, that is performance value minus compensation cost. The operative principle is that compensation falls off faster towards the end of the first round than does performance, so the maximum surplus falls between picks 25 and 75, and the surplus for third round players is actually greater than much of the first round.

That's not to say, of course, that the player picked at #30 will be better than the player picked at #1, simply that the player picked at #30 and some combination of other players who can be signed with the money you didn't have to pay the guy picked #1 will bring more total utility for your team than the #1 guy will.

The ultimate benefit of the high picks is that they offer a higher chance at picking true superstars, who are richly compensated and more than merit it with their performance (and you definitely want those guys), but based on the numbers and the probabilities, late firsts, as well as seconds and thirds are really the picks you want if you're going to stockpile.

You can absolutely win championships with a combination of late firsts, second and third round guys, and reasonably priced free agents. In fact, that's how most teams win championships these days.

[vince]

Good stuff Lurk. The Free Agent market plays out the same way except it also has trickle down effects with other players on the team that need to renew that the draft doesn't have...

Given the cost of Canty and how that signing would handcuff the rest of the signings this year and next, and the other team's current interest in Canty, and the seeming lack of current interest in Igor, I'd say the Packers would do well to pursue and sign Igor before the others who lose out on Canty turn their attention toward him.

[Fritz]

Dang, Waldo, you are the best thing that has happened to my Packer life since the internet.

dang fritz, this hurts. i didn't even merit consideration?? and after all the nice things I said about you. you have been my favorite posted in last July, but waldo comes in and sweeps you off your feet and thats the end of it...

You're a good man, Falco. A good man.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I still haven't given out hope that Harrell will play this year. If Harrell can get it together we have our starting DE's already on the team.

[Joemailman]

I still haven't given out hope that Harrell will play this year. If Harrell can get it together we have our starting DE's already on the team.

If being the operative word here. The Packers can't go into the season counting on Harrell like they did last year. If Harrell can produce this year, all the better. The packers have learned, I hope, that you can't have too much depth on the DL.

[Lurker64]

I still haven't given out hope that Harrell will play this year. If Harrell can get it together we have our starting DE's already on the team.

If being the operative word here. The Packers can't go into the season counting on Harrell like they did last year. If Harrell can produce this year, all the better. The packers have learned, I hope, that you can't have too much depth on the DL.

Yeah, counting on Harrell for this year was what got them into a lot of trouble on the defensive front last year. He could be great if he can stay healthy, but nobody's seen the "healthy" thing out of him yet.

[red]

have you guys ever seen olshansky?

lazy loafers look like this

http://media.scout.com/Media/NFL/53_cledius-hunt.JPG

this is olshanski

http://bigdogsblog.info/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/igor_pic.jpg

note the differences. fat lazy loafers usually don't look like that. its obvious he spends some time working out[/list]

[MJZiggy]

Dang, Waldo, you are the best thing that has happened to my Packer life since the internet.

dang fritz, this hurts. i didn't even merit consideration?? and after all the nice things I said about you. you have been my favorite posted in last July, but waldo comes in and sweeps you off your feet and thats the end of it...

Hey, I'm not getting any love here either, bud...I've been jilted.

[RashanGary]

Nice posts: Vince, Lurker, Waldo, Fritz.

[digitaldean]

[quote=Fritz]
Something I do know:
Been watching the airport all day. At about the exact same time, 2 private jets left the GB airport, one went to Scottsdale, one went to Ft. Myers. Each one is owned by a Packers board member (2 different guys). One (the one in Ft. Myers) is known to be used by the Packers (it is the one Murphy took down to Hattiesburgh). Both had return flights flights to GB scheduled before they landed. The Arizona flight was on the ground for 25 minutes and headed back to GB. It just landed a few minutes ago. The Ft. Myers flight just canceled it's return flight flight plan. There's a good chance that there is a FA in GB right now that was picked up in Scottsdale. Hard to make out whats going on in Ft. Myers, they planned to be on the ground for 30 minutes before they landed, but that has changed.

I'd say can Vandermause from GBPG or Lori Nickel from JSO... Waldo's gonna outscoop both of them.

Waldo...has security found you and your laptop yet hiding in the dumpster while you're scoping out this information?? :lol:

[Fritz]

Dang, Waldo, you are the best thing that has happened to my Packer life since the internet.

dang fritz, this hurts. i didn't even merit consideration?? and after all the nice things I said about you. you have been my favorite posted in last July, but waldo comes in and sweeps you off your feet and thats the end of it...

Hey, I'm not getting any love here either, bud...I've been jilted.

Who jilted you, MJ???

You're the Princess here, no?

[MJZiggy]

Dissed for a monkey (though a damn knowledgeable one)


(and I wouldn't go quite so far as princess--I always avoid the dudes on match who are looking for princesses)

[pbmax]

I've heard - only heard - that Olshansky is a loafer, a bad attitude guy, etc. What has anyone else heard? Anybody have any credible info?

That's the JSO blog said. Everyone I've talked to, including SD fans, disagrees with that sentiment completely. They're letting him walk since SD treats DE's like TT treats G's. They don't pay a lot so that they can pay their pass rushers and NT's alot. TT pays for his fancy tackles with cheap guards.

I've become so jaded agaisnt the JSO and GBPG that I can't even read them any more, basically assuming every word they write has an agenda, and that their "scouts" are nothing more than their beer drinking buddies. I do talk to an actual scout (not a pro scout) and several guys that played D1 college football, they always disagree with the newspapers scout's assessments.

I thought that we weren't going to be after Canty, according to their sources. The JSO is full of crap. If Igor is the next best option if we can't get Canty, why not paint him in a bad light when they know that he's a probable signing, that way they can rip on TT when he does sign him. They never, ever, ever can praise TT, and often print negative seed stories when they know something is going to happen (see the latest talk that Pickett is inadequate at NT) so that they can rip on it when it does happen.
I have no problem with the critique of the paper's sources, but the anti-TT agenda thing is going one step too far.

Wilde and McGinn (no idea on GBPG) were the only two football writers giving the Packer's side the Favre situation any run last summer (edit: overstatement-Glazer and Schefter were getting Packer info too). To the point that most radio and letter to the editor traffic (and some commenters here) thought they were acting like the press release office.

There has been a decided turn-around narrative developing since the end of the season that the locals are always hacking away at Thompson and the Packers. I don't believe this to be the case. I think they are more at the mercy of their sources more than we know. For instance, the communication floodgate was as wide open as ever (both leaks and on the record) for the Favre A Poolooza. They haven't had access to either T2 or M3 like that very often. Add that to the fact that Favre had frozen the local guys out and made the national guys his go to media outlet, their information was generally pro Packer.

That is unlike the end of this season, where both coach and GM retreated after firing several coaches. You go 6-10 and then fire the defensive staff, it looks like a clusterfudge, and in failing to say word one, that was the coverage they got (headline on McGinn story: Firings Make McCarthy Look Small).

I don't think they are seeding anything or grinding an axe. Their confusion on Canty and Igor could also be explained, as Waldo hypothesized, by a leak planted to throw people off their trail.

[RashanGary]

Interesting post, PB (although somewhat hard to decode after four glasses of Pinot). You're probably right on many counts.


My opinion:

I'd say the GBPG is better/more reliable and JSO is more interesting. When GBPG comes out with a story, I feel about twice as confident that it's true than JSO. I probably read JSO more (just because I'm looking for controversy), but I usually wait for GBPG to print something before I believe it.

GBPG is not perfect, but they usually label their stuff as rumor if it's rumor or opinion of it's opinion. JSO is much more clouded. They tend to cloud opinion and rumor with truth (it doesn't fool me so much as it annoys me because it often times gives credibility to the crazy in the name of selling papers)

[Packnut]

All I know is what my eyes have seen and that is in-disputable fact that our LB's really suck at shedding blocks. Therefore, whether it's Canty or someone else, Teddy had better make a move. The only way to make this whole thing work with the LB's we have now is to have 3 BEASTS up on the line. Pickett counts as one half, so that leaves us needing 2.5 more.

You guys who throw out Harrell and Jenkins make me laugh. Neither one can stay healthy so it would be INSANE to count on them for ANYTHING. If they play at all or contribute anything is nothing more than gravy.

Sign Canty and then draft a NT at 9 who can split time with Pickett. That is about the only way out of this deep dark hole...........

[gbpackfan]

“Seattle’s up now,” Blank said. “That can change (though). One phone call from the Packers or Broncos or San Francisco or Tennessee, or someone I haven’t even talked to yet, can change that.”

Blank on Saturday spoke to Reggie McKenzie, the Packers’ co-director of football operations, who told him the team still wants Canty in for a visit after first expressing that desire Friday. But Blank wants to hear from General Manager Ted Thompson directly whether the Packers are in Canty’s financial ballpark before scheduling a visit to Green Bay.


If TT really wants to get this done, now is the time. No more sitting on the sideline. Canty would be a real nice addition to our D, IMO.

[RashanGary]

“Seattle’s up now,” Blank said. “That can change (though). One phone call from the Packers or Broncos or San Francisco or Tennessee, or someone I haven’t even talked to yet, can change that.”


Those fuckers and their jedi mind tricks annoy the piss out of me. What he means to say is, "nobody has blown us away so hopefully it happens soon."

[Bretsky]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/40490592.html


apparently GB not willing to meet numbers for Canty as of yet

[mission]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/40490592.html


apparently GB not willing to meet numbers for Canty as of yet

the comments on that page are hilarious... guys are mad we arent gonna bring back sharper... lol

[Fritz]

I've heard - only heard - that Olshansky is a loafer, a bad attitude guy, etc. What has anyone else heard? Anybody have any credible info?

That's the JSO blog said. Everyone I've talked to, including SD fans, disagrees with that sentiment completely. They're letting him walk since SD treats DE's like TT treats G's. They don't pay a lot so that they can pay their pass rushers and NT's alot. TT pays for his fancy tackles with cheap guards.

I've become so jaded agaisnt the JSO and GBPG that I can't even read them any more, basically assuming every word they write has an agenda, and that their "scouts" are nothing more than their beer drinking buddies. I do talk to an actual scout (not a pro scout) and several guys that played D1 college football, they always disagree with the newspapers scout's assessments.

I thought that we weren't going to be after Canty, according to their sources. The JSO is full of crap. If Igor is the next best option if we can't get Canty, why not paint him in a bad light when they know that he's a probable signing, that way they can rip on TT when he does sign him. They never, ever, ever can praise TT, and often print negative seed stories when they know something is going to happen (see the latest talk that Pickett is inadequate at NT) so that they can rip on it when it does happen.
I have no problem with the critique of the paper's sources, but the anti-TT agenda thing is going one step too far.

Wilde and McGinn (no idea on GBPG) were the only two football writers giving the Packer's side the Favre situation any run last summer (edit: overstatement-Glazer and Schefter were getting Packer info too). To the point that most radio and letter to the editor traffic (and some commenters here) thought they were acting like the press release office.

There has been a decided turn-around narrative developing since the end of the season that the locals are always hacking away at Thompson and the Packers. I don't believe this to be the case. I think they are more at the mercy of their sources more than we know. For instance, the communication floodgate was as wide open as ever (both leaks and on the record) for the Favre A Poolooza. They haven't had access to either T2 or M3 like that very often. Add that to the fact that Favre had frozen the local guys out and made the national guys his go to media outlet, their information was generally pro Packer.

That is unlike the end of this season, where both coach and GM retreated after firing several coaches. You go 6-10 and then fire the defensive staff, it looks like a clusterfudge, and in failing to say word one, that was the coverage they got (headline on McGinn story: Firings Make McCarthy Look Small).

I don't think they are seeding anything or grinding an axe. Their confusion on Canty and Igor could also be explained, as Waldo hypothesized, by a leak planted to throw people off their trail.

Well, PB, we may not agree, but I do enjoy the fact that you understand the way the media works - that it creates narratives to sell its product, and that those narratives are subject to the push-pull of differing sides. And so it is true also that the Packer organization has its own narrative to get out into the market, I'll agree with that. And I'll agree that MM did not make himself very accessible, though that is understandable.

I do disagree with you though that the JSO or GBPG (though I'm harsher about the JSO) has been creating a pro-Packer narrative. My sense of their pro-Packer sentiment is that it was in part a result of Favre shutting them out - thus they reacted against Favre, which had the added benefit of adding fuel to the fire. Outside of that situation last summer, I think the JSO has mostly set up TT to look bad, no matter what. That narrative sells more papers than "let's support TT and MM." Look at today's article about Cole and Canty going elsewhere. After acknowledging in the article that the Pack is not interested in breaking the bank on Canty and is interested in Cole but only at a certain price, the paper suggests that not getting Canty or Cole will mean the Packers have been "shut out."

If TT chooses not to break the bank for Canty or to overpay for a journeyman like Cole, is that being "shut out"?

[Fritz]

If you look at Waldo's posting from last night...what if the Pack doesn't want Canty in town today cuz they've flown someone else in and can't talk to Canty yet? What if Olshansky's in town?

Rumors! Yeah baby!

[cpk1994]

I've heard - only heard - that Olshansky is a loafer, a bad attitude guy, etc. What has anyone else heard? Anybody have any credible info?

That's the JSO blog said. Everyone I've talked to, including SD fans, disagrees with that sentiment completely. They're letting him walk since SD treats DE's like TT treats G's. They don't pay a lot so that they can pay their pass rushers and NT's alot. TT pays for his fancy tackles with cheap guards.

I've become so jaded agaisnt the JSO and GBPG that I can't even read them any more, basically assuming every word they write has an agenda, and that their "scouts" are nothing more than their beer drinking buddies. I do talk to an actual scout (not a pro scout) and several guys that played D1 college football, they always disagree with the newspapers scout's assessments.

I thought that we weren't going to be after Canty, according to their sources. The JSO is full of crap. If Igor is the next best option if we can't get Canty, why not paint him in a bad light when they know that he's a probable signing, that way they can rip on TT when he does sign him. They never, ever, ever can praise TT, and often print negative seed stories when they know something is going to happen (see the latest talk that Pickett is inadequate at NT) so that they can rip on it when it does happen.
I have no problem with the critique of the paper's sources, but the anti-TT agenda thing is going one step too far.

Wilde and McGinn (no idea on GBPG) were the only two football writers giving the Packer's side the Favre situation any run last summer (edit: overstatement-Glazer and Schefter were getting Packer info too). To the point that most radio and letter to the editor traffic (and some commenters here) thought they were acting like the press release office.

There has been a decided turn-around narrative developing since the end of the season that the locals are always hacking away at Thompson and the Packers. I don't believe this to be the case. I think they are more at the mercy of their sources more than we know. For instance, the communication floodgate was as wide open as ever (both leaks and on the record) for the Favre A Poolooza. They haven't had access to either T2 or M3 like that very often. Add that to the fact that Favre had frozen the local guys out and made the national guys his go to media outlet, their information was generally pro Packer.

That is unlike the end of this season, where both coach and GM retreated after firing several coaches. You go 6-10 and then fire the defensive staff, it looks like a clusterfudge, and in failing to say word one, that was the coverage they got (headline on McGinn story: Firings Make McCarthy Look Small).

I don't think they are seeding anything or grinding an axe. Their confusion on Canty and Igor could also be explained, as Waldo hypothesized, by a leak planted to throw people off their trail.

Well, PB, we may not agree, but I do enjoy the fact that you understand the way the media works - that it creates narratives to sell its product, and that those narratives are subject to the push-pull of differing sides. And so it is true also that the Packer organization has its own narrative to get out into the market, I'll agree with that. And I'll agree that MM did not make himself very accessible, though that is understandable.

I do disagree with you though that the JSO or GBPG (though I'm harsher about the JSO) has been creating a pro-Packer narrative. My sense of their pro-Packer sentiment is that it was in part a result of Favre shutting them out - thus they reacted against Favre, which had the added benefit of adding fuel to the fire. Outside of that situation last summer, I think the JSO has mostly set up TT to look bad, no matter what. That narrative sells more papers than "let's support TT and MM." Look at today's article about Cole and Canty going elsewhere. After acknowledging in the article that the Pack is not interested in breaking the bank on Canty and is interested in Cole but only at a certain price, the paper suggests that not getting Canty or Cole will mean the Packers have been "shut out."

If TT chooses not to break the bank for Canty or to overpay for a journeyman like Cole, is that being "shut out"?You need to look no further for the JSO's anti-TT bias than the hit piece Cliff Christl wrote regarding Koren Robinson. IT was absolute garbage and he got majorly blasted for it. He hid for four days before he responded to the criticism and he acted like a baby. And Im not sure what JSO you guys were reading last summer but it was very anti-TT. Its the big reason that M3 shuts them out now. And since JSO is being shut out, they are upping the anti-TT rhetoric.

[Waldo]

One thing both papers managed to do that has changed the situation is that AR hardly talks to them at all, Brett would at least give them stuff. AR is a national media guy and regularly found in the national media (much more than his young QB peers), but hardly give the locals the time of day.

I guess all those articles pointing the crooked finger at TT about Aaron being a bust (or useless draft pick) have caught up with them.

MM is much more open and loves to jabber when he's on Sirius, which is a weekly thing during the season. Again, he gives the locals next to nothing.

[KYPack]

If TT chooses not to break the bank for Canty or to overpay for a journeyman like Cole, is that being "shut out"? You need to look no further for the JSO's anti-TT bias than the hit piece Cliff Christl wrote regarding Koren Robinson. IT was absolute garbage and he got majorly blasted for it. He hid for four days before he responded to the criticism and he acted like a baby. And Im not sure what JSO you guys were reading last summer but it was very anti-TT. Its the big reason that M3 shuts them out now. And since JSO is being shut out, they are upping the anti-TT rhetoric.

I missed that one.

Was Cliffy retired at that point or what?

Cliff was a baby. I've hated him since I figured out he is basically the guy who kept Jerry Kramer out of the HOF. The veterans committee (basically now nuetered) was all set to put Jerry in several years ago, Cliff helped scotch the whole thing. I think he was and is a hack. I love Cleft Crusty, but hate old Cliffy.

There is another aspect to this whole JSO GBPG angle. Sherman and Holmgran/Wolf basically nutured a few "house writers" on both staffs. The TT/MM regime did away with this. Both papers rebelled (slightly) and get their shots in when they can.

Silverstein for one, hates that he has to work for his supper now actually writes a story now and then. Their were other examples of this, the Havel/Favre connection for instance. The new guys think the writers should know the game and their craft to write stories. Some of these writers don't like this and zing 'em back when they get a chance.

[PlantPage55]

One thing both papers managed to do that has changed the situation is that AR hardly talks to them at all, Brett would at least give them stuff. AR is a national media guy and regularly found in the national media (much more than his young QB peers), but hardly give the locals the time of day.

I guess all those articles pointing the crooked finger at TT about Aaron being a bust (or useless draft pick) have caught up with them.

MM is much more open and loves to jabber when he's on Sirius, which is a weekly thing during the season. Again, he gives the locals next to nothing.

And the papers respond, in full, with overly negative undertones to all of their stories. It's a joke.

[Fritz]

So why do I continue to read the JSO?

It's the same thrill I get when I watch that reality show "My Super Sweet Sixteen." It's about spoiled rich little 15 years old whining and bitching their way to Rolls Royces ("But Daddy, I said I wanted a black one - take this one back!") and 300-guest parties with entertainment from the highest echelons of hip-hop-dom. My thrill is in getting pissed off and righteously denouncing these little fake biatches in action.

[Waldo]

In line to be left out in the cold

Todays headlines.

Might as well replace with:

"TT's running the team in the ground with his inability to pull the trigger"

Means the same thing.

And you wonder why regular JSO readers want to burn TT at the stake. Many don't think about the situation more any more than the translation of the headline.

[Lurker64]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/40490592.html


apparently GB not willing to meet numbers for Canty as of yet

I think TT is being smart here. He's letting Seattle set the price. What Canty's people put forward was a "this is what we hope to get" contract, and he's almost certainly not going to get it from anyone.. When he goes to Seattle, he'll probably get offered a deal less than what he's hoping for, and even if it's close, unless he's being offered exactly what he wants, he'll probably give other teams interested in him (including Green Bay) the opportunity to match or exceed what has already been offered.

[Waldo]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/40490592.html


apparently GB not willing to meet numbers for Canty as of yet

I think TT is being smart here. He's letting Seattle set the price. What Canty's people put forward was a "this is what we hope to get" contract, and he's almost certainly not going to get it from anyone.. When he goes to Seattle, he'll probably get offered a deal less than what he's hoping for, and even if it's close, unless he's being offered exactly what he wants, he'll probably give other teams interested in him (including Green Bay) the opportunity to match or exceed what has already been offered.

The fact that we were offered a chance to jump ahead indicates that Seattle's contract offer is not good enough and/or he really doesn't want to play for them.

Watch the Housh situation closely, he picks Seattle and they're gonne be in a tough spot trying to sign two of the more marquee FA's. Housh isn't gonna come cheap.

[mission]

We definitely want him to go to Seattle first... like Lurk said, their offer isn't going to blow his doors off and that will set the price for him. If he comes to us first, then it's reverse and he's still going to want to see what Seattle has to say.

The Giants don't want to pay more than 5-6 mil for him according to the following blog post. It also notes that Green Bay has been very aggressive in their pursuit and sheds some light on the DL situation in NY where there isn't exactly a clear fit for Canty.

As KGB said, "pay dis man heeee's moneeey" ... 8 mil I'm fine with / 18-20 guaranteed.

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/giants/

[Patler]

There is another reason to let Canty go from NY to Seattle. Midwest GMs sometimes want the players to see what the coast-to-coast trip is like. An advantage of playing in the central part of the country is the shorter trips to either coast. Some athletes absolutely hate the airplane trips. For 6'7" 310 pounders it is not the most comfortable activity. Last year Seattle traveled to Buffalo, NYG, TB and Miami. All are about 5-6 hour trips.

Its a small thing, but sometimes when the money and opportunities are the same, the small things can make a difference.

[mission]

We're all over this...

Breaking: Packers Making Push For Canty

The Green Bay Packers are making a hard push to acquire free agent defensive end Chris Canty, according to sources close to the situation.

The Packers are currently talking to Canty’s agent and at the moment, have put more money on the table then the New York Giants.

Canty is currently in New York visiting the Giants.

In addition, I am also hearing the Tampa Bay Buccaneers are showing interest in acquiring wide receiver Devery Henderson. Even though the Bucs have just re-signed receiver Michael Clayton, don’t count them out of the race for Henderson.

More to come.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/03/breaking-packers-making-push-for-canty/

Apparently we've "offered" something... I thought this was in the "here's what chris wants, do you still want to talk" stage...

[Guiness]

I've heard - only heard - that Olshansky is a loafer, a bad attitude guy, etc. What has anyone else heard? Anybody have any credible info?

That's the JSO blog said. Everyone I've talked to, including SD fans, disagrees with that sentiment completely. They're letting him walk since SD treats DE's like TT treats G's. They don't pay a lot so that they can pay their pass rushers and NT's alot. TT pays for his fancy tackles with cheap guards.

I've become so jaded agaisnt the JSO and GBPG that I can't even read them any more, basically assuming every word they write has an agenda, and that their "scouts" are nothing more than their beer drinking buddies. I do talk to an actual scout (not a pro scout) and several guys that played D1 college football, they always disagree with the newspapers scout's assessments.

I thought that we weren't going to be after Canty, according to their sources. The JSO is full of crap. If Igor is the next best option if we can't get Canty, why not paint him in a bad light when they know that he's a probable signing, that way they can rip on TT when he does sign him. They never, ever, ever can praise TT, and often print negative seed stories when they know something is going to happen (see the latest talk that Pickett is inadequate at NT) so that they can rip on it when it does happen.

Agree with this - I've stopped reading their stuff for the most part, it's just not very good. I get better information, complete with counter points, and the occasional bit of grailism here...why would I go anywhere else?

[Fritz]

I love this up-to-the-minute gossip. Hmmm. So, let Canty go to Seattle, but start some fairly serious bargaining with his agent in the meantime?

Cool. That sends the message you are serious, not desperate. So he may not just up and sign with Seattle, yet he's not being offered the over-the-moon money a Dan Snyder might offer.

Go Ted, go!

[Waldo]

Sounds like Ted is really being the aggressor and doesn't want Canty to go to Seattle.

He must want him. Bad.

This is nearly without precedent.

[Fritz]

I think it forces Seattle - if they want him they'll have to pony up, it would seem. If they do, then TT at least forces their cap up a bit. If they don't, TT can write a deal that may make him bite his lip but may not be ridiculous.

Or something. I dunno. I'd hate to see a Canty deal cause the loss of some of our own guys down the road.

[Joemailman]

Canty is still talking to New York, but I still like the Packers chances of getting him. http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/03/canty-giants-still-talking/

[mission]

Sounds like Ted is really being the aggressor and doesn't want Canty to go to Seattle.

He must want him. Bad.

This is nearly without precedent.

What makes it nearly without precedent? Rather than completely without ... serious Q.

[KYPack]

Mission, we can't answer you now, get back to your position as lookout and keep them reports coming in.

We are gonna beat out other teams for a FA!

This is big.

[Fritz]

Later in that same article on Canty, here's what a writer says about TJ Housh:

"Meanwhile, I still think there’s a chance he’ll end up sliding through someone’s back door later"

I didn't think those sorts of things were discussed in such frank ways by football writers on the internet.

[gbpackfan]

BREAKING NEWS -

Breaking: Packers Making Push For Canty
The Green Bay Packers are making a hard push to acquire free agent defensive end Chris Canty, according to sources close to the situation.
The Packers are currently talking to Canty’s agent and at the moment, have put more money on the table then the New York Giants.
Canty is currently in New York visiting the Giants.
In addition, I am also hearing the Tampa Bay Buccaneers are showing interest in acquiring wide receiver Devery Henderson. Even though the Bucs have just re-signed receiver Michael Clayton, don’t count them out of the race for Henderson.

[mission]

Think some of you guys mighta missed this on the end of page 6... :D

The Giants don't want to pay more than 5-6 mil for him according to the following blog post. It also notes that Green Bay has been very aggressive in their pursuit and sheds some light on the DL situation in NY where there isn't exactly a clear fit for Canty.

As KGB said, "pay dis man heeee's moneeey" ... 8 mil I'm fine with / 18-20 guaranteed.

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/giants/

Haven't seen his salary demands really discussed a whole lot... or at least what he's scoffing at ...

[cpk1994]

Sounds like Ted is really being the aggressor and doesn't want Canty to go to Seattle.

He must want him. Bad.

This is nearly without precedent.

What makes it nearly without precedent? Rather than completely without ... serious Q.TT was the highest bidder for Arrington and Viniteri. I'd say those were aggressive.

[Bretsky]

Mission, we can't answer you now, get back to your position as lookout and keep them reports coming in.

We are gonna beat out other teams for a FA!
This is big.


Actually we'd beat out several teams.......IF......it happens

If this occurs I might have to put an apology in my sig about the TTT stuff

[mission]

Sounds like Ted is really being the aggressor and doesn't want Canty to go to Seattle.

He must want him. Bad.

This is nearly without precedent.

What makes it nearly without precedent? Rather than completely without ... serious Q.TT was the highest bidder for Arrington and Viniteri. I'd say those were aggressive.

OK, thank god he "messed up" not getting Arrington. I forgot where our bid stood with that.

And KY - I'm trying! I got chicken sauteing in the kitchen, a pitbull begging to go outside and piss and it's snowing (yes snowing!) cats and goblins outside!!

I did check some notable Seahawk pages/blogs/news sources and they have way LESS juicy info than we do. Their forums are hardly ablaze (2 users browsing) and their newspapers just have talk about a scheduled visit for Monday but not much more. I'm beginning to think we might be able to get something done over the next 24 hours. Someone will within the next 48, I'm almost sure of that.

The hawks seem to be a lot more focused on signing Housh and Cole and those seem to be more likely scenarios than Canty... plus I can't imagine Seattle is any more of an attractive destination from a football perspective than GB ... we gotta be tops in the running right now but I dont wanna jinx anything.

I might have a Randy Moss flashback...

[Bretsky]

changing the Dead Bolts on TTT's office where he hangs out and watches college film might have actually worked

He's playing a bit of free agency the first week :lol:

[Partial]

I don't want to pay him 8 Mil. No way. How the fudge do you resign your guys for less, then, if they're potentially better players? Kampy is this year, Jenkins is next year (if he stays healthy).

As I posted in another thread I had a dream that we signed Igor. I'm all for it. 8 Mil is a lot of ching.

[Waldo]

Sounds like Ted is really being the aggressor and doesn't want Canty to go to Seattle.

He must want him. Bad.

This is nearly without precedent.

What makes it nearly without precedent? Rather than completely without ... serious Q.

Vinny

[Waldo]

Seattle just signed Cole

[mission]

Seattle just signed Cole

Terms? This helps our situation, right?

Well, aside from losing one of our own... but we knew that was gonna happen.

[KYPack]

And KY - I'm trying! I got chicken sauteing in the kitchen, a pitbull begging to go outside and piss and it's snowing (yes snowing!) cats and goblins outside!!



Get your bird from the colonel.

Only the rooster gets a better piece of chicken!

Yer a Wisconsin boy. That snow will only make you homesick.

Guess we mis-read your earlier report. I don't give a shit, let's sign Canty and figure everything else out later.

We're missing a couple guys from the front 7 for a 3-4. We get Canty we can fake (or make) the other one and maybe stop somebody.

[Partial]

Seattle just signed Cole

Terms? This helps our situation, right?

Well, aside from losing one of our own... but we knew that was gonna happen.

In theory, yes, as it takes another suitor off of the table and puts more of the cards in our favor.

Canty is a HUGE upgrade over Cole. It's not even close. So, if its 2-2.5 mil more, I'd say we won big time.

[mission]

One of the Green Bay Packers’ big offseason priorities was re-signing DT Colin Cole. But early Sunday morning, Cole wound up signing a five-year contract with the Seattle Seahawks, following the same path that former Packers coach Mike Holmgren once did.

Now, Green Bay has stepped up its efforts to sign Dallas Cowboys free agent DE Chris Canty, who is scheduled to visit Seattle on Sunday and Monday. Once again, the Seahawks and Packers are engaged in a battle for a defensive lineman.



http://blogs.nfl.com/category/adam-schefter/

A priority for us? I didn't think we planned on keeping him at all...

[KYPack]

A priority for us? I didn't think we planned on keeping him at all...

More proof that a good forum has more info than the media sites.

Cole was a priority if letting somebody walk can be considered a priority.

[red]

yeah, thats the first i've heard that we wanted to keep him

[mission]

yeah, thats the first i've heard that we wanted to keep him

i know we offered him 7 over 3 years at the end of the season but that was more of a good-will courtesy than anything... he really doesn't fit a 3-4 at all (but this we know).

[Joemailman]

I think once the Packers hired Capers, their interest in Cole lessened. They may be happy now that Cole didn't take the offer in December.

[Fritz]

Good God - I have to leave...got to be gone, out of touch, for the next three hours.

Keep the good work goin'. I'll be back.

Maybe there'll be news by then. Maybe good news.

Waldo? What's the airplane situation in GB?

Patler? Sal cap implications of 7 mill per year?

Bretsky? You know we're thinking of you, man.

[red]

Good God - I have to leave...got to be gone, out of touch, for the next three hours.

Keep the good work goin'. I'll be back.

Maybe there'll be news by then. Maybe good news.

Waldo? What's the airplane situation in GB?

Patler? Sal cap implications of 7 mill per year?

Bretsky? You know we're thinking of you, man.

no flights scheduled to arrive in green bay from new york, where canty is right now

he's suppose to be flying to seattle tonight

[mission]

Another update.... maybe NFL Post wasn't only half right.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/40505757.html

I won't post the text, this one from Bedard...

Looks like we literally JUST hit up the Canty camp...

[cpk1994]

Another update.... maybe NFL Post wasn't only half right.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/40505757.html

I won't post the text, this one from Bedard...

Looks like we literally JUST hit up the Canty camp...Looks like Canty's agent is playing Beadrd like a fiddle.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I don't want to pay him 8 Mil. No way. How the fudge do you resign your guys for less, then, if they're potentially better players? Kampy is this year, Jenkins is next year (if he stays healthy).

As I posted in another thread I had a dream that we signed Igor. I'm all for it. 8 Mil is a lot of ching.

This actually makes perfect sense. I want this guy, but at what cost.

[Partial]

Giants are supposedly still in the fray. Seattle opted out of the Canty contest according to Bedard. Gotta think the Giants are either A) dissapointed in Osi's recovery, or that they just really place a premium value on the DL. They already have two very good players on it, and with Canty, they'd have a ton of talent.

Would Canty play inside for them? He's bigger than Tuck, and one has to think Tuck and Umenyiora are the ends.

[mission]

It's down to the Giants or the Pack per PackerNews.com ...

Come on TT ...

[Lurker64]

Would Canty play inside for them? He's bigger than Tuck, and one has to think Tuck and Umenyiora are the ends.

He would play inside in the 4-3, he could possibly switch outside on run downs, but he's unlikely to get the sort of pass rush from the outside that the Giants defense requires. In terms of inside pass rush, he's well above average though. Since the Giants basically want pass rush from every part of the DL, they likely want him to play inside.

[gbpackfan]

Why would the Packers give Canty boat loads of money without meeting him or giving him a physical first? I really want the Pack to sign him but Canty needs to make a visit to GB first.

It sounds like Canty wants to play in NY and his agent was trying to use the Packers to push up the price. TT didn't bite on the bidding war.

[Partial]

I, too, would be hesitant to guarantee a joker 20 mil that I've never met.

[packer4life]

CANTY SIGNS WITH GIANTS AS REPORTED BY PFT

:(

[Fritz]

I, too, would be hesitant to guarantee a joker 20 mil that I've never met.

But would you guarantee Batman??

:rs:

[digitaldean]

Per JSO's blog...
Canty's agent said that the Packers weren't willing to ante any offer until they met Canty and had a chance at a physical.

Agent said that the Packers may have been in the ballpark, but they took the sure money with the Giants. He didn't want to "take the chance" in waiting.

What a bunch of agentspeak, bullsh*t!! "Take the chance" in waiting?!!

If he was as good as advertised, he may have gotten more.

Definitely sounds like Levar Arrington 2.0. Piss on him!

[Lurker64]

Per JSO's blog...
Canty's agent said that the Packers weren't willing to ante any offer until they met Canty and had a chance at a physical.

Think of how apoplectic Thompson's critics would have been if they signed him without giving him a physical and then he got hurt and missed even one important game.

[The Shadow]

If the Packers had REALLY wanted this guy - he was a be-all, end-all - they would have been more aggressive.
I think I trust the team more than many.
Overpaying is not a solution - I think you have to be pragmatic.

[LEWCWA]

They need some depth dreadfully. I say bring him in.

What would be a fair deal for him?

Fair or realistic

Fair is 6 yr 30M, 12M guaranteed

Realistic is 6 yr 65M, 25M guaranteed.

Just the way it works.

Canty isn't getting anywhere near 6 for 65

Years 5-6 typically don't count. They make the deal look pretty and blow peoples doors off. The guaranteed money is what counts. 25M isn't quite half what big Al got. Remember, 4-3 teams are chasing him to play DE, that is his market, not 3-4 DE or DT. His deal will be compared to Allen more than Big Al.


guess you this one didn't stick...funny!