Vonnie Holliday

[SkinBasket]

Will be coming available. On a related note, R-Kal Truluck has also been released from his AFL team. Remember when we duped Oakland into giving us a 5th and 6th for Marques Anderson, then KC duped Mike Sherman into giving them those picks for Truluck? Those were the days.

Discuss.

[ND72]

remember when we conned the Jets into taking Brett Favre for draft picks?

[retailguy]

remember when we drafted the best DL prospect all the way down at 13 because he was a "little banged" up during his college days?

[sheepshead]

remember when we conned the Jets into taking Brett Favre for draft picks?


Or the Falcons - a 2nd round pick for that drunk hillbilly at the end of the bench.

[Patler]

As of a couple years ago, Holliday was still playing decently. He has bounced between DE and DT for years, and maybe could take some of the load in a DE rotation.

[ND72]

remember when we conned the Jets into taking Brett Favre for draft picks?


Or the Falcons - a 2nd round pick for that drunk hillbilly at the end of the bench.

:lol: AH...both good trades of Mississippi :wink:

[Bossman641]

remember when we drafted the best DL prospect all the way down at 13 because he was a "little banged" up during his college days?

You mean 16?

[Waldo]

remember when we conned the Jets into taking Brett Favre for draft picks?


Or the Falcons - a 2nd round pick for that drunk hillbilly at the end of the bench.

Except that he was traded for a first round pick.

That situation was not at all dissimilar to somebody trading a first to us for Brohm.

[sheepshead]

remember when we conned the Jets into taking Brett Favre for draft picks?


Or the Falcons - a 2nd round pick for that drunk hillbilly at the end of the bench.

Except that he was traded for a first round pick.

That situation was not at all dissimilar to somebody trading a first to us for Brohm.

Oh yeah, he was a 2nd rounder, that was my confusion.

[retailguy]

remember when we drafted the best DL prospect all the way down at 13 because he was a "little banged" up during his college days?

You mean 16?

Well, that changes the whole point, doesn't it. :wink:

[sheepshead]

remember when we conned the Jets into taking Brett Favre for draft picks?


Or the Falcons - a 2nd round pick for that drunk hillbilly at the end of the bench.

Except that he was traded for a first round pick.

That situation was not at all dissimilar to somebody trading a first to us for Brohm.

Then they picked this guy:



Tony Smith (born June 29, 1970 in Chicago, Illinois) is a former professional American football player who played running back for three seasons for the Atlanta Falcons. The first-round pick that Atlanta used to draft Smith originally belonged to the Green Bay Packers. Atlanta acquired the pick in exchange for QB Brett Favre who was Smith's college teammate at Southern Mississippi.

[Partial]

Guy has experience at 3-4 DE. Obviously he is a vet, and Teddy doesn't care for older players, but it couldn't hurt to bring him in for a year or two.

[bobblehead]

I remember something about a draft day trade up in the thrid round for fear someone would snag that punter away from us.

[Fritz]

remember when we conned the Jets into taking Brett Favre for draft picks?


Or the Falcons - a 2nd round pick for that drunk hillbilly at the end of the bench.

Except that he was traded for a first round pick.

That situation was not at all dissimilar to somebody trading a first to us for Brohm.

I didn't know that Brohm is a drunken hillbilly.

[Patler]

Guy has experience at 3-4 DE. Obviously he is a vet, and Teddy doesn't care for older players, but it couldn't hurt to bring him in for a year or two.

Looks like we are the only ones interested in discussing Vonnie Holiday.

[Partial]

You really couldn't ask for a better mentor to JustinHarrell and Johnny Jolly than Vonnie Holliday.

As a former Packer, he knows the rich history of GB.

As a long-time NFL vet, he knows what sort of commitment it takes to sustain long-term success in the league.

He has a wealth of experience in the position, and as an older veteran, he would be ideal to teach the youngens some tricks of the trade.

[Joemailman]

Packer Update was on this story a couple of weeks ago. http://www.packerupdate.com/ This would be a good move if there is room on the roster. How many defensive linemen are the Packers going to keep?

[Partial]

Packer Update was on this story a couple of weeks ago. http://www.packerupdate.com/ This would be a good move if there is room on the roster. How many defensive linemen are the Packers going to keep?

They need to keep 8. Two of the guys we have are walking injuries. We need depth badly. Our "rock" moved to OLB.

[vince]

If Vonnie still has enough left in the tank to get on the Packers' list, I'd say he'd be at the bottom of it. He could still be serviceable, but it's hard to say what he's got left in the tank. He'll be 34 this season.

11 years grinding out in this league. Lotta miles on those tires.

[Patler]

You really couldn't ask for a better mentor to JustinHarrell and Johnny Jolly than Vonnie Holliday.

As a former Packer, he knows the rich history of GB.

As a long-time NFL vet, he knows what sort of commitment it takes to sustain long-term success in the league.

He has a wealth of experience in the position, and as an older veteran, he would be ideal to teach the youngens some tricks of the trade.

It's too bad, too, because Holiday could have spent his career as a Packer. Sherman made two mistakes (easy to say in hindsight).

1. He signed Joe Johnson in 2002.
2. He chose resigning Cletidus Hunt to a big contract in 2003 instead of Holiday. He acknowledged at the time they could likely afford only one, and he chose the bigger player.

Those two decisions resulted in not being able to sign Holiday. Had he not done just one of those things, he could have kept Holiday.

[mission]

V.Holiday would be a great depth addition and his body size is perfect for that DE spot in our defense. I'm never for bringing in ex pack (hey let's bring Ahman back for a try!!) but this one would make sense in addition to another guy on the line. We need some bodies and he's vet enough to help "man up" our young guys.

[Waldo]

You really couldn't ask for a better mentor to JustinHarrell and Johnny Jolly than Vonnie Holliday.

As a former Packer, he knows the rich history of GB.

As a long-time NFL vet, he knows what sort of commitment it takes to sustain long-term success in the league.

He has a wealth of experience in the position, and as an older veteran, he would be ideal to teach the youngens some tricks of the trade.

It's too bad, too, because Holiday could have spent his career as a Packer. Sherman made two mistakes (easy to say in hindsight).

1. He signed Joe Johnson in 2002.
2. He chose resigning Cletidus Hunt to a big contract in 2003 instead of Holiday. He acknowledged at the time they could likely afford only one, and he chose the bigger player.

Those two decisions resulted in not being able to sign Holiday. Had he not done just one of those things, he could have kept Holiday.

Can't forget one of the highest paid players in the NFL (I believe he was top dog at that time) and the effect that has on available cap space. If they chose to trade the other QB to Seattle, we probably would have been able to keep Vonnie.

[Patler]

You really couldn't ask for a better mentor to JustinHarrell and Johnny Jolly than Vonnie Holliday.

As a former Packer, he knows the rich history of GB.

As a long-time NFL vet, he knows what sort of commitment it takes to sustain long-term success in the league.

He has a wealth of experience in the position, and as an older veteran, he would be ideal to teach the youngens some tricks of the trade.

It's too bad, too, because Holiday could have spent his career as a Packer. Sherman made two mistakes (easy to say in hindsight).

1. He signed Joe Johnson in 2002.
2. He chose resigning Cletidus Hunt to a big contract in 2003 instead of Holiday. He acknowledged at the time they could likely afford only one, and he chose the bigger player.

Those two decisions resulted in not being able to sign Holiday. Had he not done just one of those things, he could have kept Holiday.

Can't forget one of the highest paid players in the NFL (I believe he was top dog at that time) and the effect that has on available cap space. If they chose to trade the other QB to Seattle, we probably would have been able to keep Vonnie.

Sure, Favre affected the cap significantly for many years, any top QB does. Hasselbeck has been fairly expensive to the Seahawks too. Besides, he was long gone before the Johnson/Hunt/Holliday decision arose. With a cheaper QB maybe you could have kept all three, but that was not my point.

My point was that with Johnson and Hunt you are looking at the same position group, as Holiday has bounced between DE and DT. The Packers were able to afford two of the three, and they threw away the only one that ended up worth anything and paid for two dogs. It's unfortunate.

[Waldo]

You really couldn't ask for a better mentor to JustinHarrell and Johnny Jolly than Vonnie Holliday.

As a former Packer, he knows the rich history of GB.

As a long-time NFL vet, he knows what sort of commitment it takes to sustain long-term success in the league.

He has a wealth of experience in the position, and as an older veteran, he would be ideal to teach the youngens some tricks of the trade.

It's too bad, too, because Holiday could have spent his career as a Packer. Sherman made two mistakes (easy to say in hindsight).

1. He signed Joe Johnson in 2002.
2. He chose resigning Cletidus Hunt to a big contract in 2003 instead of Holiday. He acknowledged at the time they could likely afford only one, and he chose the bigger player.

Those two decisions resulted in not being able to sign Holiday. Had he not done just one of those things, he could have kept Holiday.

Can't forget one of the highest paid players in the NFL (I believe he was top dog at that time) and the effect that has on available cap space. If they chose to trade the other QB to Seattle, we probably would have been able to keep Vonnie.

Sure, Favre affected the cap significantly for many years, any top QB does. Hasselbeck has been fairly expensive to the Seahawks too. Besides, he was long gone before the Johnson/Hunt/Holliday decision arose. With a cheaper QB maybe you could have kept all three, but that was not my point.

My point was that with Johnson and Hunt you are looking at the same position group, as Holiday has bounced between DE and DT. The Packers were able to afford two of the three, and they threw away the only one that ended up worth anything and paid for two dogs. It's unfortunate.

I know your point. Just had to get a jab in there. I've thought we traded the wrong one since the day the deal went down. :wink:

[Fritz]

You really couldn't ask for a better mentor to JustinHarrell and Johnny Jolly than Vonnie Holliday.

As a former Packer, he knows the rich history of GB.

As a long-time NFL vet, he knows what sort of commitment it takes to sustain long-term success in the league.

He has a wealth of experience in the position, and as an older veteran, he would be ideal to teach the youngens some tricks of the trade.

It's too bad, too, because Holiday could have spent his career as a Packer. Sherman made two mistakes (easy to say in hindsight).

1. He signed Joe Johnson in 2002.
2. He chose resigning Cletidus Hunt to a big contract in 2003 instead of Holiday. He acknowledged at the time they could likely afford only one, and he chose the bigger player.

Those two decisions resulted in not being able to sign Holiday. Had he not done just one of those things, he could have kept Holiday.

Can't forget one of the highest paid players in the NFL (I believe he was top dog at that time) and the effect that has on available cap space. If they chose to trade the other QB to Seattle, we probably would have been able to keep Vonnie.

Sure, Favre affected the cap significantly for many years, any top QB does. Hasselbeck has been fairly expensive to the Seahawks too. Besides, he was long gone before the Johnson/Hunt/Holliday decision arose. With a cheaper QB maybe you could have kept all three, but that was not my point.

My point was that with Johnson and Hunt you are looking at the same position group, as Holiday has bounced between DE and DT. The Packers were able to afford two of the three, and they threw away the only one that ended up worth anything and paid for two dogs. It's unfortunate.

I know your point. Just had to get a jab in there. I've thought we traded the wrong one since the day the deal went down. :wink:

Uh, Waldo? Are you referring to the quarterback trade? If so, y'know that's heresy, right?

Joe Johnson (changing subjects) was, to my mind, the exact kind of signing that so many fans clamor for - a big name (and he was, at that time) who was hurt and had a bad year, getting a little long in the tooth. But Shermy took a shot, and it didn't pan out.

And Cletidus Hunt was a character risk. I know he said it was an injury problem, but truth be told he was a once-in-awhile guy.

[Waldo]

You really couldn't ask for a better mentor to JustinHarrell and Johnny Jolly than Vonnie Holliday.

As a former Packer, he knows the rich history of GB.

As a long-time NFL vet, he knows what sort of commitment it takes to sustain long-term success in the league.

He has a wealth of experience in the position, and as an older veteran, he would be ideal to teach the youngens some tricks of the trade.

It's too bad, too, because Holiday could have spent his career as a Packer. Sherman made two mistakes (easy to say in hindsight).

1. He signed Joe Johnson in 2002.
2. He chose resigning Cletidus Hunt to a big contract in 2003 instead of Holiday. He acknowledged at the time they could likely afford only one, and he chose the bigger player.

Those two decisions resulted in not being able to sign Holiday. Had he not done just one of those things, he could have kept Holiday.

Can't forget one of the highest paid players in the NFL (I believe he was top dog at that time) and the effect that has on available cap space. If they chose to trade the other QB to Seattle, we probably would have been able to keep Vonnie.

Sure, Favre affected the cap significantly for many years, any top QB does. Hasselbeck has been fairly expensive to the Seahawks too. Besides, he was long gone before the Johnson/Hunt/Holliday decision arose. With a cheaper QB maybe you could have kept all three, but that was not my point.

My point was that with Johnson and Hunt you are looking at the same position group, as Holiday has bounced between DE and DT. The Packers were able to afford two of the three, and they threw away the only one that ended up worth anything and paid for two dogs. It's unfortunate.

I know your point. Just had to get a jab in there. I've thought we traded the wrong one since the day the deal went down. :wink:

Uh, Waldo? Are you referring to the quarterback trade? If so, y'know that's heresy, right?

Joe Johnson (changing subjects) was, to my mind, the exact kind of signing that so many fans clamor for - a big name (and he was, at that time) who was hurt and had a bad year, getting a little long in the tooth. But Shermy took a shot, and it didn't pan out.

And Cletidus Hunt was a character risk. I know he said it was an injury problem, but truth be told he was a once-in-awhile guy.

17 years of torture my man. Too bad the good one got hurt. :shock:

Needless to say I haven't gotten along with most Packer fans for a very long time. As an outsider to the adoration, it was quite amusing (yet pitiful) to witness.

[Patler]

I know your point. Just had to get a jab in there. I've thought we traded the wrong one since the day the deal went down. :wink:

I know what you mean, from a salary cap perspective Favre was a tough swallow. He was using 13-14% of the cap for years. It can be difficult to assemble a winning team around a player that expensive unless you really hit on some draft choices or other cheap players. Hasselbeck might have been a better "value" allowing you to do other things while being plenty good enough himself.

That trade wouldn't have bothered me, depending on what they did with the results of it. I never get too attached to any player.

[Joemailman]

If Vonnie still has enough left in the tank to get on the Packers' list, I'd say he'd be at the bottom of it. He could still be serviceable, but it's hard to say what he's got left in the tank. He'll be 34 this season.

11 years grinding out in this league. Lotta miles on those tires.

He had enough left in the tank last year for 46 tackles and 3.5 sacks. Some guys know how to take care of themselves and manage to extend their careers.

[mission]

I know your point. Just had to get a jab in there. I've thought we traded the wrong one since the day the deal went down. :wink:

I know what you mean, from a salary cap perspective Favre was a tough swallow. He was using 13-14% of the cap for years. It can be difficult to assemble a winning team around a player that expensive unless you really hit on some draft choices or other cheap players. Hasselbeck might have been a better "value" allowing you to do other things while being plenty good enough himself.

That trade wouldn't have bothered me, depending on what they did with the results of it. I never get too attached to any player.

Could you imagine the backlash on THAT one?! Wow, lol ... last off season on the forum would have been a light one compared. Not that I disagree -- most of you guys know where I stand -- but that could have never happened for lots of the wrong reasons (which you also know).

[mission]

The Packers certainly have Holliday's cell number. A league source at the Senior Bowl said two members of the organization called Holliday to ask about Capers before he was hired. Holliday, who played under Capers in ’06 and ’07, gave the Packers his highest recommendation: Holliday told them Capers is the coach he respected the most during his 11-year career.

Capers has a great deal of respect for Holliday, who is a tremendous locker room leader and is durable (four missed games the past four seasons -- all in '07).

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/40556512.html

[vince]

If Vonnie still has enough left in the tank to get on the Packers' list, I'd say he'd be at the bottom of it. He could still be serviceable, but it's hard to say what he's got left in the tank. He'll be 34 this season.

11 years grinding out in this league. Lotta miles on those tires.

He had enough left in the tank last year for 46 tackles and 3.5 sacks. Some guys know how to take care of themselves and manage to extend their careers.
Given his reliability and being a proven team player, I certainly wouldn't be too upset with the move. However, there are likely 5 DE spots at most. Hopefully, we sign a guy like Olshansky in his prime who can come in and have a solid impact at least. That leaves one spot left on the roster for either a guy like Holliday or a draft pick who shows great upside ability.

I like and admire Holliday for what he's done and what he has stood for as a player. That last DE spot on the roster could be for a young guy who can grow into something special as opposed to a guy whose best days are in his past.

[Fritz]

Not bad numbers for a guy from the Don Hutson era...dang, that dude seems like he's been around forever. Maybe Esera Tualo can play the nose, too!

As for the idea of trading Favre back when - I put a little more stock into the importance of a franchise having an occasional icon, so I don't think I'd have traded Favre at that point. However, I think the Packers did not "owe" Favre what he, his family, and some posters seem to think when he retired-started-to-unretire-retired-unretired. But we've beaten that topic to a pulp.

I do think Jamaal Reynolds was an awful draft pick - one of those guys who mysteriously and magically puts on twenty or thirty pounds in no time so he can look/seem bigger for the pros. But I don't blame him. He wasn't a jerk or anything. I blame Ron Wolf - not for making a bad pick - everyone does that - but for trying to shift the blame to Sherman. Whether Shermy was in on-the-job training or not at that point, Wolf was still the guy with the nameplate on his desk that said "General Manager." His responsibility. But Wolf seems very much to care about his image. Too bad, because his body of work on the whole was impressive, despite some first-rate first round duds like Reynolds, Antwan Edwards, and John Michels.

[Patler]

Edit.

[bobblehead]

If Vonnie still has enough left in the tank to get on the Packers' list, I'd say he'd be at the bottom of it. He could still be serviceable, but it's hard to say what he's got left in the tank. He'll be 34 this season.

11 years grinding out in this league. Lotta miles on those tires.

He had enough left in the tank last year for 46 tackles and 3.5 sacks. Some guys know how to take care of themselves and manage to extend their careers.
Given his reliability and being a proven team player, I certainly wouldn't be too upset with the move. However, there are likely 5 DE spots at most. Hopefully, we sign a guy like Olshansky in his prime who can come in and have a solid impact at least. That leaves one spot left on the roster for either a guy like Holliday or a draft pick who shows great upside ability.

I like and admire Holliday for what he's done and what he has stood for as a player. That last DE spot on the roster could be for a young guy who can grow into something special as opposed to a guy whose best days are in his past.

I agree with most of what you said, but we do need a reliable starter now, and if Holliday could fill that role for a year or 2 I would have no problem bringing him in.

[Zool]

I do love the term "upside ability"

[Little Whiskey]

I know your point. Just had to get a jab in there. I've thought we traded the wrong one since the day the deal went down. :wink:


That trade wouldn't have bothered me, depending on what they did with the results of it. I never get too attached to any player.

Could you imagine the backlash on THAT one?! Wow, lol ... last off season on the forum would have been a light one compared. Not that I disagree -- most of you guys know where I stand -- but that could have never happened for lots of the wrong reasons (which you also know).

I'm not sure how you think that GB should have traded favre instead of hasselbeck? just look at the games played over that same time period. Hasselbeck missed 25 games since he left GB. (includes the 9 from last year since he still would have been our starter). then look at the rest of the stats. (47 more TD's and 5000 more yards) They made the right trade.

[Guiness]

I remember when Holliday was traded - coming of a year where he played with a brace for a torn pectoral muscle.

As Patler said, he was the odd man out on the DL with Cletidus and Johnson staying, but think how much better off we'd have been if we'd kept him. Those two positions have been revolving doors, and he's done yoeman's work in KC and Miami.

[vince]

I agree with most of what you said, but we do need a reliable starter now, and if Holliday could fill that role for a year or 2 I would have no problem bringing him in.
I agree with that Bobblehead. If the Packers don't sign Olshansky, Wright or Douglas, then Holliday would be a good addition. I'd prefer a younger (and bigger) guy to come in and plug holes at DE though, although I have no doubt that Dom and Ted and the boys can figure that out just fine on their own.

My main point is that I'd also like to see a DE with upside be drafted who can learn, develop and compete. I don't have a ton of faith in Jolly, Jenkins or of course Harrell at this point for the long-term. Even if the best case scenario plays out on the field and they are able stay healthy/out of trouble and/or can be effective (which won't happen for all of them), then you have to deal with the potentially high future cost to keep them - at a position you'd rather not have to pay a ton for.

In addition to a starter, we also need an up and comer with a cheap contract at that position who is ready to step up in a year or two so it doesn't continue to be a need area year after year, and we don't get desparate and feel the need to overpay for an average starter like Johnny Jolly probably projects to be.

One of those guys above plus Holliday this year might put the team in a spot in which they wish they weren't in a year or two with a bunch of guys at the same position who have worn out their welcome through injuries, age, and/or wanting (and getting) more than they should be worth to the team ala Colin Cole.

Being in that situation this year with the change in D is understandable. If we're in that situation again 2 years from now, the natives will be all over Ted with their 20/20 hindsight, claiming they wanted all along whichever DE that hits in this year's draft that we then missed out on.

[SkinBasket]

The Packers don't want him. At least that's what that shit-rag of a publication is reporting on their website. No word on Truluck yet.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/40709877.html

[SkinBasket]

It's fun to read the comments there too. A shit throwing festival involving people believing passing on Holliday is evidence that Ted is a terrible GM versus those who don't think a 34 year old DE is going to make or break our season. Some people seem to get a little excitable by this whole free agency thing. It was only a week ago that everyone was saying how poor a crop of FAs this was this year, now half those people are screaming if Thompson doesn't sign them all, like they're fucking Pokemans.

[3irty1]

I really thought we'd be all over him or at least used the phone. The JS might just have no idea though. It seems like a great fit for Holliday and the Packers. I was waiting for this-- quality guys like Holliday and Taylor to get released after all the lunatic teams spent a billion dollars during the first weekend. The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese. These guys are the cheese.

[imscott72]

It's fun to read the comments there too. A shit throwing festival involving people believing passing on Holliday is evidence that Ted is a terrible GM versus those who don't think a 34 year old DE is going to make or break our season. Some people seem to get a little excitable by this whole free agency thing. It was only a week ago that everyone was saying how poor a crop of FAs this was this year, now half those people are screaming if Thompson doesn't sign them all, like they're fucking Pokemans.

Did you read the article? Despite playing only 56% of the snaps he led all linemen in tackles and sacks. What makes you think he's got nothing left? He loved playing for Capers and loved it in Green Bay, but we can't even talk to the guy? I just don't understand.

[pittstang5]

If that article is true, I too am a little disapointed. Holliday shouldn't be too expensive, would solve a need at the DE position and would bring experience and leadership to all on the DL because he's played in this system before, not to mention that he's very fond of Capers as a coach. To me, it's a no brainer, but I'm a nobody and not working in the NFL.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Did you read the article? Despite playing only 56% of the snaps he led all linemen in tackles and sacks. What makes you think he's got nothing left? He loved playing for Capers and loved it in Green Bay, but we can't even talk to the guy? I just don't understand.

Well, considering DE Matt Roth had more tackles and more sacks (52 tackles and 5 sacks), I'm not sure how much you can trust the article. Of the other two guys that started on the DL, Ferguson likely played even fewer snaps (as he is a run down player) and the DE was a rookie 3rd round draft pick who didn't start every game. The backups likely played even fewer snaps. That team played a rotation, so to make a guy who had less than 46 tackles and just 3.5 sacks out to be some stud is a little much.

Every one on our starting DL had more tackles than Holliday did last year (except for Jenkins--who was well on his way to having many more tackles).

That being said, I do like Vonnie. I'd give him a shot if he had anything left. I didn't watch enough Dolphins games to give an informed decision.

[Partial]

I don't think anyone is saying he's a stud. At the very least, he is one of the three desperately 100% required bodies before going into next season.

[imscott72]

Did you read the article? Despite playing only 56% of the snaps he led all linemen in tackles and sacks. What makes you think he's got nothing left? He loved playing for Capers and loved it in Green Bay, but we can't even talk to the guy? I just don't understand.

Well, considering DE Matt Roth had more tackles and more sacks (52 tackles and 5 sacks), I'm not sure how much you can trust the article. Of the other two guys that started on the DL, Ferguson likely played even fewer snaps (as he is a run down player) and the DE was a rookie 3rd round draft pick who didn't start every game. The backups likely played even fewer snaps. That team played a rotation, so to make a guy who had less than 46 tackles and just 3.5 sacks out to be some stud is a little much.

Every one on our starting DL had more tackles than Holliday did last year (except for Jenkins--who was well on his way to having many more tackles).

That being said, I do like Vonnie. I'd give him a shot if he had anything left. I didn't watch enough Dolphins games to give an informed decision.

I agree he's not a stud and at 33 yrs old I wouldn't expect him to be. The thing that attracts me is the veteran leadership, which we didn't have last year, the familiarity with Capers, and his prior experiences in Green Bay. I just don't get why Ted can't at least bring him in and talk to him about what he's looking for. I'm not saying he's going to carry us to a Superbowl, but at the right price he's indeed servicable and can be a great presence for our younger guys.

[3irty1]

I feel like bringing him in makes GB more attractive to Jason Taylor.

[pittstang5]

The thing that attracts me is the veteran leadership, which we didn't have last year, the familiarity with Capers, and his prior experiences in Green Bay. I just don't get why Ted can't at least bring him in and talk to him about what he's looking for. I'm not saying he's going to carry us to a Superbowl, but at the right price he's indeed servicable and can be a great presence for our younger guys.

Agree 100%

[Pugger]

Just because Nonnie hasn't heard from the Packer so far doesn't mean he won't at all. When was he released?

[sheepshead]

The thing that attracts me is the veteran leadership, which we didn't have last year, the familiarity with Capers, and his prior experiences in Green Bay. I just don't get why Ted can't at least bring him in and talk to him about what he's looking for. I'm not saying he's going to carry us to a Superbowl, but at the right price he's indeed servicable and can be a great presence for our younger guys.

Agree 100%


This is no where near the same team as when he left. I'm not sure I see the attraction other than homer attraction.

[Partial]

The attraction? He's a cheap 3-4 DE with experience in the system. We have 3 injury prone DEs on our roster and thats it!

Are you kidding me? Attraction? He's a solid addition to this team right now.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The attraction? He's a cheap 3-4 DE with experience in the system. We have 3 injury prone DEs on our roster and thats it!

Are you kidding me? Attraction? He's a solid addition to this team right now.

Well, we don't know that he's cheap. We'll see by the contract he gets. And the reason he would be cheap is because he's 33 years old and may not have a lot left. Now, I wouldn't mind signing him, but it's not like he's a slam dunk to improve our defense much.

[Patler]

Holliday lead all Miami linemen in both tackles and sacks in 2008, per ESPN.
He received a little over $3 Million in "new" money in 2008, but was due a $1.5 Million roster bonus now that Miami didn't want to pay. The article said he would have cost $5M against the cap in 2009. About 1.7M was from earlier bonuses, 1.5M from the new roster bonus, which would leave a 2009 salary of about $1.8 to account for the $5M cap figure.

Miami has Merling from their 2nd round draft last year. Probably time for him to start, making Holliday and his cap dollars expendable.

I think he wouldn't be too expensive. $3.3 would make up for what he would have gotten in Miami. Holliday has never had a real big contract. He has been paid about $25M in the last 9 seasons.

[sheepshead]

The attraction? He's a cheap 3-4 DE with experience in the system. We have 3 injury prone DEs on our roster and thats it!

Are you kidding me? Attraction? He's a solid addition to this team right now.

Yeah. How on earth do you know what it's going to take to sign this guy? You pull more you-know-what out of your you-know-what then anyone i've ever seen.

[Partial]

The attraction? He's a cheap 3-4 DE with experience in the system. We have 3 injury prone DEs on our roster and thats it!

Are you kidding me? Attraction? He's a solid addition to this team right now.

Yeah. How on earth do you know what it's going to take to sign this guy? You pull more you-know-what out of your you-know-what then anyone i've ever seen.

We have 30 something million in cap room. Bring him in, and pitch a one or two year deal to him. Who cares how much we pay for him for a year or two? No long term side effects..

Harv, I have no idea how much he helps us, but at this point, even an average player is better than no player. We need someone!

[sheepshead]

"Who cares how much we pay for him for a year or two?"


Ted Thompson does, as well he should.


You sure are all over the board. Try to collect your thoughts and type.

[Patler]

The attraction? He's a cheap 3-4 DE with experience in the system. We have 3 injury prone DEs on our roster and thats it!

Are you kidding me? Attraction? He's a solid addition to this team right now.

Yeah. How on earth do you know what it's going to take to sign this guy? You pull more you-know-what out of your you-know-what then anyone i've ever seen.

I know you weren't addressing me with your comment, but I will jump in here anyway! I think we can make a good guess what it would take to sign him from information about what he has been paid. As I wrote just before your last message, all from available data and not guess work:


He received a little over $3 Million in "new" money in 2008, but was due a $1.5 Million roster bonus now that Miami didn't want to pay. The article said he would have cost $5M against the cap in 2009. About 1.7M was from earlier bonuses, 1.5M from the new roster bonus, which would leave a 2009 salary of about $1.8 to account for the $5M cap figure.

I think he wouldn't be too expensive. $3.3 would make up for what he would have gotten in Miami. Holliday has never had a real big contract. He has been paid about $25M in the last 9 seasons.

[sharpe1027]

Holliday lead all Miami linemen in both tackles and sacks in 2008, per ESPN.
He received a little over $3 Million in "new" money in 2008, but was due a $1.5 Million roster bonus now that Miami didn't want to pay. The article said he would have cost $5M against the cap in 2009. About 1.7M was from earlier bonuses, 1.5M from the new roster bonus, which would leave a 2009 salary of about $1.8 to account for the $5M cap figure.

Miami has Merling from their 2nd round draft last year. Probably time for him to start, making Holliday and his cap dollars expendable.

I think he wouldn't be too expensive. $3.3 would make up for what he would have gotten in Miami. Holliday has never had a real big contract. He has been paid about $25M in the last 9 seasons.

If that price is accurate, I hope we give him a solid look

[imscott72]

The attraction? He's a cheap 3-4 DE with experience in the system. We have 3 injury prone DEs on our roster and thats it!

Are you kidding me? Attraction? He's a solid addition to this team right now.

Yeah. How on earth do you know what it's going to take to sign this guy? You pull more you-know-what out of your you-know-what then anyone i've ever seen.

What is your deal? You know what it's going to take to sign a guy by bringing him in for a visit. We're not trying to cure cancer here. We can't sign a guy if he's not even scheduled for a visit. I'm just confused as to why Thompson refuses to open any dialogue with anyone.

[imscott72]

Try to collect your thoughts and type.

Yes you really should.. :roll:

[ThunderDan]

The attraction? He's a cheap 3-4 DE with experience in the system. We have 3 injury prone DEs on our roster and thats it!

Are you kidding me? Attraction? He's a solid addition to this team right now.

Yeah. How on earth do you know what it's going to take to sign this guy? You pull more you-know-what out of your you-know-what then anyone i've ever seen.

What is your deal? You know what it's going to take to sign a guy by bringing him in for a visit. We're not trying to cure cancer here. We can't sign a guy if he's not even scheduled for a visit. I'm just confused as to why Thompson refused to open any dialogue with anyone.

How do you know that he hasn't? Just because TT doesn't annouce to the world who he is interested in and who he actively wants to sign doesn't mean he's doing nothing. I actually like that TT keeps his mouth shut. Nothing drives the price up faster and brings more competition than saying we are targeting a player and need him on our team.

[imscott72]

The attraction? He's a cheap 3-4 DE with experience in the system. We have 3 injury prone DEs on our roster and thats it!

Are you kidding me? Attraction? He's a solid addition to this team right now.

Yeah. How on earth do you know what it's going to take to sign this guy? You pull more you-know-what out of your you-know-what then anyone i've ever seen.

What is your deal? You know what it's going to take to sign a guy by bringing him in for a visit. We're not trying to cure cancer here. We can't sign a guy if he's not even scheduled for a visit. I'm just confused as to why Thompson refused to open any dialogue with anyone.

How do you know that he hasn't? Just because TT doesn't annouce to the world who he is interested in and who he actively wants to sign doesn't mean he's doing nothing. I actually like that TT keeps his mouth shut. Nothing drives the price up faster and brings more competition than saying we are targeting a player and need him on our team.

We know when visits are scheduled. He's not going to sign someone without meeting him in person first, which he shouldn't. The lack of dialogue and visits are the clues he is or is not interesting in a particular player.

[Lurker64]

We know when visits are scheduled. He's not going to sign someone without meeting him in person first, which he shouldn't. The lack of dialogue and visits are the clues he is or is not interesting in a particular player.\\

Do we? In the past we've had players come and go from Green Bay without that being widely reported through the usual channels until after they left. I would imagine that "Thompson has been on the phone with [player x] and they have scheduled a visit" wouldn't be anything the media knew about unless Thompson told them (unlikely) or the player's agent told them. If we're going after a player whose agent isn't fond of the media, we may never hear about it since Thompson never says anything he doesn't have to.

[3irty1]

Has anyone anywhere scheduled a visit with Holliday yet? I wouldn't be surprised if the Packers didn't chime in after he was already going somewhere to visit kind of like they did with Canty. Only hopefully Holliday won't be in such a hurry that he won't come visit.

[sheepshead]

The attraction? He's a cheap 3-4 DE with experience in the system. We have 3 injury prone DEs on our roster and thats it!

Are you kidding me? Attraction? He's a solid addition to this team right now.

Yeah. How on earth do you know what it's going to take to sign this guy? You pull more you-know-what out of your you-know-what then anyone i've ever seen.

What is your deal? You know what it's going to take to sign a guy by bringing him in for a visit. We're not trying to cure cancer here. We can't sign a guy if he's not even scheduled for a visit. I'm just confused as to why Thompson refused to open any dialogue with anyone.

How do you know that he hasn't? Just because TT doesn't annouce to the world who he is interested in and who he actively wants to sign doesn't mean he's doing nothing. I actually like that TT keeps his mouth shut. Nothing drives the price up faster and brings more competition than saying we are targeting a player and need him on our team.

We know when visits are scheduled. He's not going to sign someone without meeting him in person first, which he shouldn't. The lack of dialogue and visits are the clues he is or is not interesting in a particular player.


These posts are full of assumptions, thats all Im saying. You and I dont know, and will never know, all the contacts our GM makes either by telephone, e-mail or in person.

[ThunderDan]

The attraction? He's a cheap 3-4 DE with experience in the system. We have 3 injury prone DEs on our roster and thats it!

Are you kidding me? Attraction? He's a solid addition to this team right now.

Yeah. How on earth do you know what it's going to take to sign this guy? You pull more you-know-what out of your you-know-what then anyone i've ever seen.

What is your deal? You know what it's going to take to sign a guy by bringing him in for a visit. We're not trying to cure cancer here. We can't sign a guy if he's not even scheduled for a visit. I'm just confused as to why Thompson refused to open any dialogue with anyone.

How do you know that he hasn't? Just because TT doesn't annouce to the world who he is interested in and who he actively wants to sign doesn't mean he's doing nothing. I actually like that TT keeps his mouth shut. Nothing drives the price up faster and brings more competition than saying we are targeting a player and need him on our team.

We know when visits are scheduled. He's not going to sign someone without meeting him in person first, which he shouldn't. The lack of dialogue and visits are the clues he is or is not interesting in a particular player.

The lack of visits shows talks aren't going anywhere. We have no idea on lack of dialogue.

I can see the following scenario

TT: We are interested in your player.
Agent: What are you thinking?
TT: Well he's 33 so 2 years 5 million.
Agent: We want 3 years 8.5 million including a $3M signing bonus.
TT: I appreciate your time.

No visit scheduled yet TT is being active.

[imscott72]

We know when visits are scheduled. He's not going to sign someone without meeting him in person first, which he shouldn't. The lack of dialogue and visits are the clues he is or is not interesting in a particular player.\\

Do we? In the past we've had players come and go from Green Bay without that being widely reported through the usual channels until after they left. I would imagine that "Thompson has been on the phone with [player x] and they have scheduled a visit" wouldn't be anything the media knew about unless Thompson told them (unlikely) or the player's agent told them. If we're going after a player whose agent isn't fond of the media, we may never hear about it since Thompson never says anything he doesn't have to.

I'm not an expert on agents, but if I was one I'd want the media to know my client was going to Green Bay for a visit for obvious reasons. I would want other interested teams to step up their efforts to get my client if they really wanted him. Not saying all agents do this, but I'm betting a majority do.

[ThunderDan]

We know when visits are scheduled. He's not going to sign someone without meeting him in person first, which he shouldn't. The lack of dialogue and visits are the clues he is or is not interesting in a particular player.\\

Do we? In the past we've had players come and go from Green Bay without that being widely reported through the usual channels until after they left. I would imagine that "Thompson has been on the phone with [player x] and they have scheduled a visit" wouldn't be anything the media knew about unless Thompson told them (unlikely) or the player's agent told them. If we're going after a player whose agent isn't fond of the media, we may never hear about it since Thompson never says anything he doesn't have to.

I'm not an expert on agents, but if I was one I'd want the media to know my client was going to Green Bay for a visit for obvious reasons. I would want other interested teams to step up their efforts to get my client if they really wanted him. Not saying all agents do this, but I'm betting a majority do.

Look at how that has worked for Rosenpenis's clients the last few years.

O wait, TO got traded to Dallas. JWalk got big Al to pay him huge money to underperform and Ocho Cinco is still in Cincinnatti.

[sheepshead]

We know when visits are scheduled. He's not going to sign someone without meeting him in person first, which he shouldn't. The lack of dialogue and visits are the clues he is or is not interesting in a particular player.\\

Do we? In the past we've had players come and go from Green Bay without that being widely reported through the usual channels until after they left. I would imagine that "Thompson has been on the phone with [player x] and they have scheduled a visit" wouldn't be anything the media knew about unless Thompson told them (unlikely) or the player's agent told them. If we're going after a player whose agent isn't fond of the media, we may never hear about it since Thompson never says anything he doesn't have to.

I'm not an expert on agents, but if I was one I'd want the media to know my client was going to Green Bay for a visit for obvious reasons. I would want other interested teams to step up their efforts to get my client if they really wanted him. Not saying all agents do this, but I'm betting a majority do.

They do this. They just dont do it through the media.

It's one reason players hire agents. If the media was all they needed, they wouldnt hire these guys.

[Lurker64]

I'm not an expert on agents, but if I was one I'd want the media to know my client was going to Green Bay for a visit for obvious reasons. I would want other interested teams to step up their efforts to get my client if they really wanted him. Not saying all agents do this, but I'm betting a majority do.

Well, the issue is that if we're talking about a FA who's not a big guy, the media really doesn't care where he's flying to. ESPN isn't going to report it, and most of the fans of the local team just won't have heard of him. So if an agent makes a phone call to a media outlet for someone who's not a big name, he may not get out of it.

The agent can essentially accomplish the same thing by calling the other teams that have contacted him about his client and saying "We're going to Green Bay on Thursday, do you guys want to schedule a visit?" because that is probably more effective at explaining to teams "there's interest in my client, you guys had better show more interest if you want to land him." When someone like ESPN will actually report "player X scheduled visit in Green Bay" because player x is a sufficiently big name, the agent can accomplish this with one phone call, otherwise he has to make several. Telling the local media doesn't accomplish a lot, since this is a busy time of year, I don't think teams can afford to have a staff member dedicated to reading all the sports blogs for all the local papers for every other NFL team to see if there are visits being scheduled. It's easier just to pay someone to answer the phone/make phone calls.

[sheepshead]

The attraction? He's a cheap 3-4 DE with experience in the system. We have 3 injury prone DEs on our roster and thats it!

Are you kidding me? Attraction? He's a solid addition to this team right now.

Yeah. How on earth do you know what it's going to take to sign this guy? You pull more you-know-what out of your you-know-what then anyone i've ever seen.

I know you weren't addressing me with your comment, but I will jump in here anyway! I think we can make a good guess what it would take to sign him from information about what he has been paid. As I wrote just before your last message, all from available data and not guess work:


He received a little over $3 Million in "new" money in 2008, but was due a $1.5 Million roster bonus now that Miami didn't want to pay. The article said he would have cost $5M against the cap in 2009. About 1.7M was from earlier bonuses, 1.5M from the new roster bonus, which would leave a 2009 salary of about $1.8 to account for the $5M cap figure.

I think he wouldn't be too expensive. $3.3 would make up for what he would have gotten in Miami. Holliday has never had a real big contract. He has been paid about $25M in the last 9 seasons.


This would make him the 11th highest paid player on the team of 55 guys. I dont think that qualifies as "cheap".

[Patler]

The attraction? He's a cheap 3-4 DE with experience in the system. We have 3 injury prone DEs on our roster and thats it!

Are you kidding me? Attraction? He's a solid addition to this team right now.

Yeah. How on earth do you know what it's going to take to sign this guy? You pull more you-know-what out of your you-know-what then anyone i've ever seen.

I know you weren't addressing me with your comment, but I will jump in here anyway! I think we can make a good guess what it would take to sign him from information about what he has been paid. As I wrote just before your last message, all from available data and not guess work:


He received a little over $3 Million in "new" money in 2008, but was due a $1.5 Million roster bonus now that Miami didn't want to pay. The article said he would have cost $5M against the cap in 2009. About 1.7M was from earlier bonuses, 1.5M from the new roster bonus, which would leave a 2009 salary of about $1.8 to account for the $5M cap figure.

I think he wouldn't be too expensive. $3.3 would make up for what he would have gotten in Miami. Holliday has never had a real big contract. He has been paid about $25M in the last 9 seasons.


This would make him the 11th highest paid player on the team of 55 guys. I dont think that qualifies as "cheap".

I don't believe I called him "cheap". On the other hand, The "average" pay will now be in excess of $2M/player. I have no problem paying a starting DE $3M for this year, maybe next too.

$3.3 would put him at #12, just below Pickett and ahead of the cap hits for Poppinga, Lee, Chiller and Wells (in order going down). Is that so out of place? Every player of significance below Wells is working on their rookie contract, and obviously have a much lower cap hit.

[Fritz]

Patler, I would imagine you can get Holliday's pay down to 2 to 2.5 per year if you let him twist in the wind a little. Not a big market for him, not as of yet. If you bring him in in, say, late March, and remind his agent how old Vonnie is, you can get him even cheaper.

[sheepshead]

The attraction? He's a cheap 3-4 DE with experience in the system. We have 3 injury prone DEs on our roster and thats it!

Are you kidding me? Attraction? He's a solid addition to this team right now.

Yeah. How on earth do you know what it's going to take to sign this guy? You pull more you-know-what out of your you-know-what then anyone i've ever seen.

I know you weren't addressing me with your comment, but I will jump in here anyway! I think we can make a good guess what it would take to sign him from information about what he has been paid. As I wrote just before your last message, all from available data and not guess work:


He received a little over $3 Million in "new" money in 2008, but was due a $1.5 Million roster bonus now that Miami didn't want to pay. The article said he would have cost $5M against the cap in 2009. About 1.7M was from earlier bonuses, 1.5M from the new roster bonus, which would leave a 2009 salary of about $1.8 to account for the $5M cap figure.

I think he wouldn't be too expensive. $3.3 would make up for what he would have gotten in Miami. Holliday has never had a real big contract. He has been paid about $25M in the last 9 seasons.


This would make him the 11th highest paid player on the team of 55 guys. I dont think that qualifies as "cheap".

I don't believe I called him "cheap". On the other hand, The "average" pay will now be in excess of $2M/player. I have no problem paying a starting DE $3M for this year, maybe next too.

$3.3 would put him at #12, just below Pickett and ahead of the cap hits for Poppinga, Lee, Chiller and Wells (in order going down). Is that so out of place? Every player of significance below Wells is working on their rookie contract, and obviously have a much lower cap hit.




No, you were defending the guy that said he would be cheap. Hair splitting is infuriating.

[texaspackerbacker]

I intended to post that in any such discussion, how much money is the major determining question. I see that's already being bounced around.

Considering how little Holliday likely has left in the tank, $3.3 million seems like way too much to me. It's just possible, though, that nobody would pay him even half of that. So if you get down to about a million or $1.5 million, then he'd be worth considering.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

It has come down to discussing Vonnie Holliday? Really?

[KYPack]

I intended to post that in any such discussion, how much money is the major determining question. I see that's already being bounced around.

Considering how little Holliday likely has left in the tank, $3.3 million seems like way too much to me. It's just possible, though, that nobody would pay him even half of that. So if you get down to about a million or $1.5 million, then he'd be worth considering.

The league minimum is $840 per year for Vonnie.

He'll get 2.5 - 3 million a year.

[sheepshead]

The more of these signings I see, the more I'm glad TT has alligator arms.

[Patler]

Patler, I would imagine you can get Holliday's pay down to 2 to 2.5 per year if you let him twist in the wind a little. Not a big market for him, not as of yet. If you bring him in in, say, late March, and remind his agent how old Vonnie is, you can get him even cheaper.

I agree you can probably get him cheaper. I was just showing that $3.3 in "new money" is what he was scheduled to receive this year. That is probably something he would jump at immediately. Almost a "ceiling" for your dealings with him. As it gets closer to TC, some of these older vets sign for minimum contracts and minimum allowable bonuses, which is a real good deal for the teams.

[Bretsky]

It has come down to discussing Vonnie Holliday? Really?


We are the Packers, and it is free agency. Expectations are dam low

[Patler]

It is amazing what the escalated cap means to run-of-the-mill veterans.

The salary cap is now at $125+ million.
That usually covers somewhere around 60 players, depending on the size of IR. It also covers a handful at about $30k to $50k for the practice squad. Each team always has a bunch of players under 5-600k with players on their first contracts, street FAs at minimum contracts, etc..

It's not to hard to have 20 or more players at less than $1M each, leaving well over $100M for 40 or fewer players.

$2-3M is no longer a big contract for a credible veteran player you expect to play regularly.

[Joemailman]

According to Bedard, Packers are not one of 5 teams pursuing Holliday.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/40709877.html

[Bretsky]

According to Bedard, Packers are not one of 5 teams pursuing Holliday.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/40709877.html


We think we're fine there and we're making every decision with the best long term interests of the Green Bay Packers :wink: