""WAITING GAME CONTINUES""

[Bretsky]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/40760507.html

[sheepshead]

Come on man..how about a comment? an original thought? You're starting a thread for petes sake

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Come on man..how about a comment? an original thought? You're starting a thread for petes sake

I like free agents.

[Deputy Nutz]

Come on man..how about a comment? an original thought? You're starting a thread for petes sake

:roll:

[HarveyWallbangers]

http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/sports/441582

Some interesting factoids in there.

[Brando19]

Come on man..how about a comment? an original thought? You're starting a thread for petes sake

Uh oh, Bretsky. You've done it now! You best follow Sheepshead's posting rules of the forum before you get bitched out over and over and over again. What were you thinking? :roll:

[red]

i got a new theory

its based on what we saw about the pats giving away cassell for peanuts to the broncos. many people think good ole bill was doing his old buddy a favor by giving away cassel for cheap, and paying him back for all the good things he's did for the patriots

maybe thats what we did with ted thompson?

maybe bob harlan wanted to pay back holmgren for all the years of hard work and the good job he did with the packers. maybe bob did mike a giant favor by taking TT off his hands for him?

[Deputy Nutz]

i got a new theory

its based on what we saw about the pats giving away cassell for peanuts to the broncos. many people think good ole bill was doing his old buddy a favor by giving away cassel for cheap, and paying him back for all the good things he's did for the patriots

maybe thats what we did with ted thompson?

maybe bob harlan wanted to pay back holmgren for all the years of hard work and the good job he did with the packers. maybe bob did mike a giant favor by taking TT off his hands for him?

TED IS THE MAN!!!!!

[bobblehead]

i got a new theory

its based on what we saw about the pats giving away cassell for peanuts to the broncos. many people think good ole bill was doing his old buddy a favor by giving away cassel for cheap, and paying him back for all the good things he's did for the patriots

maybe thats what we did with ted thompson?

maybe bob harlan wanted to pay back holmgren for all the years of hard work and the good job he did with the packers. maybe bob did mike a giant favor by taking TT off his hands for him?

You know, you whined about the political debates in RR, but I'm willing to bet that this tired act is annoying a lot more people.

[red]

i got a new theory

its based on what we saw about the pats giving away cassell for peanuts to the broncos. many people think good ole bill was doing his old buddy a favor by giving away cassel for cheap, and paying him back for all the good things he's did for the patriots

maybe thats what we did with ted thompson?

maybe bob harlan wanted to pay back holmgren for all the years of hard work and the good job he did with the packers. maybe bob did mike a giant favor by taking TT off his hands for him?

You know, you whined about the political debates in RR, but I'm willing to bet that this tired act is annoying a lot more people.

even more then you do?

[Fritz]

i got a new theory

its based on what we saw about the pats giving away cassell for peanuts to the broncos. many people think good ole bill was doing his old buddy a favor by giving away cassel for cheap, and paying him back for all the good things he's did for the patriots

maybe thats what we did with ted thompson?

maybe bob harlan wanted to pay back holmgren for all the years of hard work and the good job he did with the packers. maybe bob did mike a giant favor by taking TT off his hands for him?

I think Thompson is an excellent GM, and I believe the record will reflect this in the next two years.

And if it doesn't, he'll likely be fired anyway.

[red]

i got a new theory

its based on what we saw about the pats giving away cassell for peanuts to the broncos. many people think good ole bill was doing his old buddy a favor by giving away cassel for cheap, and paying him back for all the good things he's did for the patriots

maybe thats what we did with ted thompson?

maybe bob harlan wanted to pay back holmgren for all the years of hard work and the good job he did with the packers. maybe bob did mike a giant favor by taking TT off his hands for him?

I think Thompson is an excellent GM, and I believe the record will reflect this in the next two years.

And if it doesn't, he'll likely be fired anyway.

i'll give you, he's good at scouting

but i'm not sold on his other gm qualities at this point

[Fritz]

Maybe in two years we'll be sipping a beer together, Red, and discussing this very issue. Maybe it'll be at the posters' game. You buy me a brew if TT's still there and bringing the team to the playoffs; I'll buy you a brew if he's been fired.

[red]

Maybe in two years we'll be sipping a beer together, Red, and discussing this very issue. Maybe it'll be at the posters' game. You buy me a brew if TT's still there and bringing the team to the playoffs; I'll buy you a brew if he's been fired.

deal fritz

[KYPack]

Come on man..how about a comment? an original thought? You're starting a thread for petes sake

It was the B-Man

He's thinking about 8-ways.

[MJZiggy]

Come on man..how about a comment? an original thought? You're starting a thread for petes sake

It was the B-Man

He's thinking about 8-ways.

Lesbian 8 ways. The devil is in the details.

[Packnut]

i got a new theory

its based on what we saw about the pats giving away cassell for peanuts to the broncos. many people think good ole bill was doing his old buddy a favor by giving away cassel for cheap, and paying him back for all the good things he's did for the patriots

maybe thats what we did with ted thompson?

maybe bob harlan wanted to pay back holmgren for all the years of hard work and the good job he did with the packers. maybe bob did mike a giant favor by taking TT off his hands for him?

I think Thompson is an excellent GM, and I believe the record will reflect this in the next two years.

And if it doesn't, he'll likely be fired anyway.

Yep, Teddy's a stud. Giving Poppinga all that cash was just a brilliant stroke. Popp really earned it last season right?

Ya gotta love the Harrell move. Everyone and his brother knew the guy was damaged goods but Teddy knew better. Yeah he really showed his GM skills on that one. I remember touting Bowe and Nelson BEFORE that draft. With Nelson, Woodson does'nt play saftey and we would'nt STILL be looking for a saftey now, but hey what do I know?

Speaking of more Teddy genious, how about seeing with his own eyes at the end of the 2007 season how we could'nt generate a pass rush or stop the run. So like a good GM, he saw the problem and took steps to fix it right? Let's see, how much cash did keeping KGB cost us? Come to think of it, between Popp's contract and KGB, we might have actually been able to afford a FA. Why get in a bidding war when we can waste that money in house?

I could go on and on with FACT after FACT after FACT, but what's the use. Some believe producing a 6-10 team and having all the holes we have now after 4 years is being an "excellent" GM. Then there are some of us who believe the team we love deserves better.

[HarveyWallbangers]

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090305/PKR07/90305175/1058/PKR01


Mike Vandermause column: Be patient, as Ted Thompson is

The approval rating for Green Bay Packers General Manager Ted Thompson might have plummeted to an all-time low this week.

Dealing with the lingering effects of the Brett Favre trade last summer followed by the Packers’ disappointing 6-10 record was bad enough. But when Thompson failed to land any players in the early stages of free agency, his critics began braying like rented mules.

The rallying cry from a restless fan base went something like this: “Do something — anything — to upgrade the roster and appease us.”

To which Thompson, during an appearance at the University of Wisconsin pro day on Wednesday, calmly replied: “We don’t want to sign a guy just so we can say, ‘Look!’ or just to put another guy on the pile. We want a guy who can come in and fill a particular role. It doesn’t have to be a starter, doesn’t have to be all that. If a guy can do something to help our team and give us a better chance in the fall, that’s what we’ll do.”

Crack on him if you must, but at least give Thompson credit for standing up for his convictions. He refuses to engage in senseless overbidding for underwhelming talent even in the face of sharp criticism.

That’s why Thompson took a pass on free agent defensive lineman Chris Canty, who signed with the New York Giants for an exorbitant $42 million over six years despite never earning a Pro Bowl berth.

That’s why Thompson never bothered to enter the bidding for defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth, who was paid a king’s ransom — $41 million guaranteed and $100 million total over seven years — by the Washington Redskins.

Thompson will never let the urge for a quick fix get in the way of common sense, and that drives his critics nuts. They want instant gratification, which is in stark contrast to Thompson’s measured approach to building a team.

Redskins owner Daniel Snyder might be considered the anti-Thompson in NFL circles.

He grew up a staunch supporter of the Redskins, and when he bought the team a decade ago proceeded to act out like a fan. That is to say, he threw millions of dollars at the most attractive free agents in a quest to achieve immediate success.

In the eyes of many Redskins fans, no one is smarter or more popular than Snyder in the spring. But when the Redskins consistently flop in the fall, no one looks more foolish.

The Redskins have qualified for the playoffs just twice in the last nine seasons under Snyder and never have advanced past the divisional round.

But that didn’t stop the free-spending Snyder from doling out $171 million in contracts last week for Haynesworth, cornerback DeAngelo Hall and guard Derrick Dockery.

In stark contrast, the only unrestricted free agent Thompson signed in 2007 was cornerback Frank Walker, yet the Packers went 13-3 that year and advanced to the NFC championship game.

Thompson isn’t averse to throwing big money at free agents, as evidenced by his signing of Charles Woodson and Ryan Pickett in 2006. But the player and the price must be right.

This is not an argument in favor of maintaining the status quo. The Packers took a big step backward last season, and management must be held accountable. Thompson clearly needs to upgrade the Packers’ defense, particularly the front seven, which played a key role in the team’s second-half slide.

But that doesn’t mean he should act out of desperation, which would only make matters worse.

Thompson has ammunition with four of the top 83 picks in next month’s draft, including the ninth overall. In addition, there is plenty of time to sign second-tier free agents or pull off a trade. Just because Thompson doesn’t keep up with the Snyders of the NFL world in March doesn’t mean the Packers are destined for failure in September.

Thompson can’t make football decisions based on fan sentiment. He learned that from former Packers General Manager Ron Wolf.

“You can’t really worry about it,” Wolf recently told me about public criticism. “Because you’re trying to do what in your mind … is in the best interests of the team.

“You could be wrong, but you have to live with yourself.”

Thompson should ultimately be judged on the Packers’ record this season, not how much money he spends on free agents.

After the abuse Thompson took this summer, I wonder how long he'll want to stay in Green Bay--even if the team starts winning again. I'd think if he looked to go elsewhere, he'd be in demand. I have this strange feeling that he'll leave here and build a championship caliber team elsewhere.

[texaspackerbacker]

Come on man..how about a comment? an original thought? You're starting a thread for petes sake

I like free agents.

I don't--in general, anyway.

[Deputy Nutz]

Well say Thompson leaves or gets fired a year after the Packers go 9-7. He signs on with the 49ers as their GM and Vice President. He hires his coaching staff, puts together his front office staff. He prepares for the draft, draft weekend comes and goes. He takes a weekend to rest and relax, and twenty minutes in he lies down and takes the advice of Packers fans everywhere and goes and fucks himself.

[Joemailman]

Great post Nutz...if you're at Sports Bubbler.

[Deputy Nutz]

Great post Nutz...if you're at Sports Bubbler.

They let you post pictures of cock there?

[SkinBasket]

Well say Thompson leaves or gets fired a year after the Packers go 9-7. He signs on with the 49ers as their GM and Vice President. He hires his coaching staff, puts together his front office staff. He prepares for the draft, draft weekend comes and goes. He takes a weekend to rest and relax, and twenty minutes in he lies down and takes the advice of Packers fans everywhere and goes and fucks himself.

Why are you so fucking angry? Are you drinking again?

[Deputy Nutz]

Yes, yes I am. I feel that I am a better writer while on the sauce, I also think I smell better as well

[red]

Yes, yes I am. I feel that I am a better writer while on the sauce, I also think I smell better as well

i look better when i drink

and i'm more charming

[Guiness]

Come on man..how about a comment? an original thought? You're starting a thread for petes sake

It was the B-Man

He's thinking about 8-ways.

Lesbian 8 ways. The devil is in the details.

The lady bring up the topic, and warms to it! Way to egg him on!

Going to visit the grailism thread to see if you spurned him into updating it :lol:

[Bretsky]

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090305/PKR07/90305175/1058/PKR01


Mike Vandermause column: Be patient, as Ted Thompson is

The approval rating for Green Bay Packers General Manager Ted Thompson might have plummeted to an all-time low this week.

Dealing with the lingering effects of the Brett Favre trade last summer followed by the Packers’ disappointing 6-10 record was bad enough. But when Thompson failed to land any players in the early stages of free agency, his critics began braying like rented mules.

The rallying cry from a restless fan base went something like this: “Do something — anything — to upgrade the roster and appease us.”

To which Thompson, during an appearance at the University of Wisconsin pro day on Wednesday, calmly replied: “We don’t want to sign a guy just so we can say, ‘Look!’ or just to put another guy on the pile. We want a guy who can come in and fill a particular role. It doesn’t have to be a starter, doesn’t have to be all that. If a guy can do something to help our team and give us a better chance in the fall, that’s what we’ll do.”

Crack on him if you must, but at least give Thompson credit for standing up for his convictions. He refuses to engage in senseless overbidding for underwhelming talent even in the face of sharp criticism.

That’s why Thompson took a pass on free agent defensive lineman Chris Canty, who signed with the New York Giants for an exorbitant $42 million over six years despite never earning a Pro Bowl berth.

That’s why Thompson never bothered to enter the bidding for defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth, who was paid a king’s ransom — $41 million guaranteed and $100 million total over seven years — by the Washington Redskins.

Thompson will never let the urge for a quick fix get in the way of common sense, and that drives his critics nuts. They want instant gratification, which is in stark contrast to Thompson’s measured approach to building a team.

Redskins owner Daniel Snyder might be considered the anti-Thompson in NFL circles.

He grew up a staunch supporter of the Redskins, and when he bought the team a decade ago proceeded to act out like a fan. That is to say, he threw millions of dollars at the most attractive free agents in a quest to achieve immediate success.

In the eyes of many Redskins fans, no one is smarter or more popular than Snyder in the spring. But when the Redskins consistently flop in the fall, no one looks more foolish.

The Redskins have qualified for the playoffs just twice in the last nine seasons under Snyder and never have advanced past the divisional round.

But that didn’t stop the free-spending Snyder from doling out $171 million in contracts last week for Haynesworth, cornerback DeAngelo Hall and guard Derrick Dockery.

In stark contrast, the only unrestricted free agent Thompson signed in 2007 was cornerback Frank Walker, yet the Packers went 13-3 that year and advanced to the NFC championship game.

Thompson isn’t averse to throwing big money at free agents, as evidenced by his signing of Charles Woodson and Ryan Pickett in 2006. But the player and the price must be right.

This is not an argument in favor of maintaining the status quo. The Packers took a big step backward last season, and management must be held accountable. Thompson clearly needs to upgrade the Packers’ defense, particularly the front seven, which played a key role in the team’s second-half slide.

But that doesn’t mean he should act out of desperation, which would only make matters worse.

Thompson has ammunition with four of the top 83 picks in next month’s draft, including the ninth overall. In addition, there is plenty of time to sign second-tier free agents or pull off a trade. Just because Thompson doesn’t keep up with the Snyders of the NFL world in March doesn’t mean the Packers are destined for failure in September.

Thompson can’t make football decisions based on fan sentiment. He learned that from former Packers General Manager Ron Wolf.

“You can’t really worry about it,” Wolf recently told me about public criticism. “Because you’re trying to do what in your mind … is in the best interests of the team.

“You could be wrong, but you have to live with yourself.”

Thompson should ultimately be judged on the Packers’ record this season, not how much money he spends on free agents.

After the abuse Thompson took this summer, I wonder how long he'll want to stay in Green Bay--even if the team starts winning again. I'd think if he looked to go elsewhere, he'd be in demand. I have this strange feeling that he'll leave here and build a championship caliber team elsewhere.


Look at the bright side folks

Every year we're going to have the healthiest dam Salary Cap going into the season of just about the entire NFL

:!:

[Bretsky]

Come on man..how about a comment? an original thought? You're starting a thread for petes sake

It was the B-Man

He's thinking about 8-ways.

Lesbian 8 ways. The devil is in the details.

The lady bring up the topic, and warms to it! Way to egg him on!

Going to visit the grailism thread to see if you spurned him into updating it :lol:


Ziggy would love a lesby 8sum :!: No Headaches for five years :lol:

[MJZiggy]

They can purr?! Never mind.

[Fritz]

Yes, I do believe so, Zig.

[Packerarcher]

i got a new theory

its based on what we saw about the pats giving away cassell for peanuts to the broncos. many people think good ole bill was doing his old buddy a favor by giving away cassel for cheap, and paying him back for all the good things he's did for the patriots

maybe thats what we did with ted thompson?

maybe bob harlan wanted to pay back holmgren for all the years of hard work and the good job he did with the packers. maybe bob did mike a giant favor by taking TT off his hands for him?

I think Thompson is an excellent GM, and I believe the record will reflect this in the next two years.

And if it doesn't, he'll likely be fired anyway.

i'll give you, he's good at scouting

but i'm not sold on his other gm qualities at this point

What qualities,he has none,unless you count being incredibly inept in FA a quality.

[Fritz]

Ted Thompson has no good qualities? Packerarcher, you called someone else's statement on another thread "asinine" - it was about someone saying he/she didn't want T.O. to get signed by anyone.

I'm going to call your Ted Thompson statement asinine. He may not last in Green Bay. Maybe the team will suck this year, maybe he'll get fired. I don't know. None of us do. But to suggest he has no qualities at all - asinine.

[sharpe1027]

The grass is always greener. :roll:

It is beginning to sound like a teenage girl bitch fest. TT sucks. Big deal. He's not going anywhere this year. Get over it. Good thing many of the posters are in WI so they have easy access to some cheese to go with their whine.

If you don't have anything constructive to say... ah forget it. Go ahead and bore us with your complaints.

[SkinBasket]

The grass is always greener. :roll:

It is beginning to sound like a teenage girl bitch fest. TT sucks. Big deal. He's not going anywhere this year. Get over it. Good thing many of the posters are in WI so they have easy access to some cheese to go with their whine.

If you don't have anything constructive to say... ah forget it. Go ahead and bore us with your complaints.

That reminds me of a story I heard once

[wist43]

TT will never be fired... he is a decent talent evaluator, and will continue to bring in enough talent thru the draft to keep the Packers in the 8-8 to 10-6 range... they'll never fire a 10-6 GM.

Carl Peterson never won anything... at least that I can remember; yet, he was a decent GM, kept his KC reasonably competitive, and was never seriously in danger of losing his job... I'm beginning to see TT the same way.

[wist43]

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090305/PKR07/90305175/1058/PKR01


Mike Vandermause column: Be patient, as Ted Thompson is

The approval rating for Green Bay Packers General Manager Ted Thompson might have plummeted to an all-time low this week.

Dealing with the lingering effects of the Brett Favre trade last summer followed by the Packers’ disappointing 6-10 record was bad enough. But when Thompson failed to land any players in the early stages of free agency, his critics began braying like rented mules.

The rallying cry from a restless fan base went something like this: “Do something — anything — to upgrade the roster and appease us.”

To which Thompson, during an appearance at the University of Wisconsin pro day on Wednesday, calmly replied: “We don’t want to sign a guy just so we can say, ‘Look!’ or just to put another guy on the pile. We want a guy who can come in and fill a particular role. It doesn’t have to be a starter, doesn’t have to be all that. If a guy can do something to help our team and give us a better chance in the fall, that’s what we’ll do.”

Crack on him if you must, but at least give Thompson credit for standing up for his convictions. He refuses to engage in senseless overbidding for underwhelming talent even in the face of sharp criticism.

That’s why Thompson took a pass on free agent defensive lineman Chris Canty, who signed with the New York Giants for an exorbitant $42 million over six years despite never earning a Pro Bowl berth.

That’s why Thompson never bothered to enter the bidding for defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth, who was paid a king’s ransom — $41 million guaranteed and $100 million total over seven years — by the Washington Redskins.

Thompson will never let the urge for a quick fix get in the way of common sense, and that drives his critics nuts. They want instant gratification, which is in stark contrast to Thompson’s measured approach to building a team.

Redskins owner Daniel Snyder might be considered the anti-Thompson in NFL circles.

He grew up a staunch supporter of the Redskins, and when he bought the team a decade ago proceeded to act out like a fan. That is to say, he threw millions of dollars at the most attractive free agents in a quest to achieve immediate success.

In the eyes of many Redskins fans, no one is smarter or more popular than Snyder in the spring. But when the Redskins consistently flop in the fall, no one looks more foolish.

The Redskins have qualified for the playoffs just twice in the last nine seasons under Snyder and never have advanced past the divisional round.

But that didn’t stop the free-spending Snyder from doling out $171 million in contracts last week for Haynesworth, cornerback DeAngelo Hall and guard Derrick Dockery.

In stark contrast, the only unrestricted free agent Thompson signed in 2007 was cornerback Frank Walker, yet the Packers went 13-3 that year and advanced to the NFC championship game.

Thompson isn’t averse to throwing big money at free agents, as evidenced by his signing of Charles Woodson and Ryan Pickett in 2006. But the player and the price must be right.

This is not an argument in favor of maintaining the status quo. The Packers took a big step backward last season, and management must be held accountable. Thompson clearly needs to upgrade the Packers’ defense, particularly the front seven, which played a key role in the team’s second-half slide.

But that doesn’t mean he should act out of desperation, which would only make matters worse.

Thompson has ammunition with four of the top 83 picks in next month’s draft, including the ninth overall. In addition, there is plenty of time to sign second-tier free agents or pull off a trade. Just because Thompson doesn’t keep up with the Snyders of the NFL world in March doesn’t mean the Packers are destined for failure in September.

Thompson can’t make football decisions based on fan sentiment. He learned that from former Packers General Manager Ron Wolf.

“You can’t really worry about it,” Wolf recently told me about public criticism. “Because you’re trying to do what in your mind … is in the best interests of the team.

“You could be wrong, but you have to live with yourself.”

Thompson should ultimately be judged on the Packers’ record this season, not how much money he spends on free agents.

After the abuse Thompson took this summer, I wonder how long he'll want to stay in Green Bay--even if the team starts winning again. I'd think if he looked to go elsewhere, he'd be in demand. I have this strange feeling that he'll leave here and build a championship caliber team elsewhere.


Look at the bright side folks

Every year we're going to have the healthiest dam Salary Cap going into the season of just about the entire NFL

:!:

Healthy salary cap, youngest roster year after year, and a string of 9-7 seasons.... woo hoo!!!!! lol :D

We're going on 13 years since we won the SB... the dry spell is going to get much longer.

[mraynrand]

they'll never fire a 10-6 GM.

Well, except for Mike Sherman. But they'll keep him on as coach so they can fire him again next year. Maybe when they fire Thompson they can demote him and then fire him again too.

[sharpe1027]

TT will never be fired... he is a decent talent evaluator, and will continue to bring in enough talent thru the draft to keep the Packers in the 8-8 to 10-6 range... they'll never fire a 10-6 GM.

Carl Peterson never won anything... at least that I can remember; yet, he was a decent GM, kept his KC reasonably competitive, and was never seriously in danger of losing his job... I'm beginning to see TT the same way.

Maybe. Unlike KC, they went deep into the playoffs only a year ago. Personally, I'm O.K. with a GM fielding a team that can get within one pass away of the superbowl. Next time around, maybe that play goes our way.

I look at it this way. He cleaned house his first year and had a very bad year. After that year, he continued to bring in fresh blood, both coaches and players and had two years of steady improvement. Last year was a clearly a step back. The difference between winning and losing is razor thin with all the parity of late, and the Packers were within a hair of winning many of the games they lost. I am going to wait and see if they can get that hair back this year.

[sheepshead]

Loosing 6 games by 5 points or less has NOTHING to do with the general manager. NOTHING. Our biggest need is on the defense. So he spent lots and lots of money on it. ON COACHES.

Compare these two teams for instance over the last 10 years:

Washington Redskins - 10 years = 1 playoff win


Pittsburgh Steelers - 10 years = 11 playoff wins (two super bowls)

Now, google all the Big Name Free Agents Snyder has signed.

Try to do a similar search for the Steelers. I couldnt name one OL on that team. Oh but we all know the Jets OL dont we??

I'm glad he is not signing 36 year olds to 5 year deals and putting them in the top 5 of all salaries on the team.

[Deputy Nutz]

TT will never be fired... he is a decent talent evaluator, and will continue to bring in enough talent thru the draft to keep the Packers in the 8-8 to 10-6 range... they'll never fire a 10-6 GM.

Carl Peterson never won anything... at least that I can remember; yet, he was a decent GM, kept his KC reasonably competitive, and was never seriously in danger of losing his job... I'm beginning to see TT the same way.

Maybe. Unlike KC, they went deep into the playoffs only a year ago. Personally, I'm O.K. with a GM fielding a team that can get within one pass away of the superbowl. Next time around, maybe that play goes our way.

I look at it this way. He cleaned house his first year and had a very bad year. After that year, he continued to bring in fresh blood, both coaches and players and had two years of steady improvement. Last year was a clearly a step back. The difference between winning and losing is razor thin with all the parity of late, and the Packers were within a hair of winning many of the games they lost. I am going to wait and see if they can get that hair back this year.

One good season with a little bit of magic here and there isn't going to cover the other 3 season of failure.

Besides boiling that game against the Giants down to the interception by Favre shows your lack of football knowledge forgiving loyalty to the Packers. If anything that int showed just how dependent the team was on Favre. Where was the running game? Where was the run defense? Where was the fuck was Al Harris? The defense couldn't get it's ass of the field the entire second half.

[bobblehead]

Yep, Teddy's a stud. Giving Poppinga all that cash was just a brilliant stroke. Popp really earned it last season right?

Ya gotta love the Harrell move. Everyone and his brother knew the guy was damaged goods but Teddy knew better. Yeah he really showed his GM skills on that one. I remember touting Bowe and Nelson BEFORE that draft. With Nelson, Woodson does'nt play saftey and we would'nt STILL be looking for a saftey now, but hey what do I know?

Speaking of more Teddy genious, how about seeing with his own eyes at the end of the 2007 season how we could'nt generate a pass rush or stop the run. So like a good GM, he saw the problem and took steps to fix it right? Let's see, how much cash did keeping KGB cost us? Come to think of it, between Popp's contract and KGB, we might have actually been able to afford a FA. Why get in a bidding war when we can waste that money in house?

I could go on and on with FACT after FACT after FACT, but what's the use. Some believe producing a 6-10 team and having all the holes we have now after 4 years is being an "excellent" GM. Then there are some of us who believe the team we love deserves better.
Which facts again?? YOu mean that he didn't forsee Bigby getting hurt? Bigby was monster the last month of 2007 and had 2 good playoff games. If TT didn't see his injury coming...yea, he is incompetent.

As for Poppinga he played pretty damn good in the first half of the season and then struggled along with the rest of the D. He is an NFL caliber starter who plays good special teams, the contract he got was about right.

Who was that mythical pass rushing demon we could have signed after 2007 anyway? I know the market was flooded with 300 pounders who can get after the QB, my memory slips though so who were they again?

You're right, Bowe would have made a huge difference on our top ten offense, and probably would have had 10-15 sacks too.

There is a reason TT has been working in the NFL his entire life and you and I haven't.

I am hoping the defense is much better this season and the offense is at least as good. If it doeesn't happen and you continue to see the same breakdowns then TT and MM will have to answer for it, but coming off a season where 2 better kicks and 1 defensive stop out of 4 would have put us in the playoffs I think you are overreacting a bit, especially considering we lost 3 defensive starters to injury. If you have a magic formula to predict injuries I'm sure TT would love to hear it.

[bobblehead]

i got a new theory

its based on what we saw about the pats giving away cassell for peanuts to the broncos. many people think good ole bill was doing his old buddy a favor by giving away cassel for cheap, and paying him back for all the good things he's did for the patriots

maybe thats what we did with ted thompson?

maybe bob harlan wanted to pay back holmgren for all the years of hard work and the good job he did with the packers. maybe bob did mike a giant favor by taking TT off his hands for him?

You know, you whined about the political debates in RR, but I'm willing to bet that this tired act is annoying a lot more people.

even more then you do?

You mean by making posts full of stats facts and critical thinking instead of shrilly attacking TT cuz I'm in hate mode?? Yea, I guess that annoys people.

[cpk1994]

Great post Nutz...if you're at Sports Bubbler.

They let you post pictures of cock there?Well, they do let Tank post there.

EDIT: Also where Scot Campbell has been reduced to hanging out at.

[Deputy Nutz]

Great post Nutz...if you're at Sports Bubbler.

They let you post pictures of cock there?Well, they do let Tank post there.

EDIT: Also where Scot Campbell has been reduced to hanging out at.

Scott is, well, scott, did, well we can't talk about scott c. anymore

[bobblehead]

they'll never fire a 10-6 GM.

Well, except for Mike Sherman. But they'll keep him on as coach so they can fire him again next year. Maybe when they fire Thompson they can demote him and then fire him again too.

It continues to amaze me that people can make a statement that is so easily disputed. I mean, if TT goes 10-6 THIS year they ain't going to fire him, but if we go 10-6 the next 3 years and flop in the playoffs each year...buh bye.

[Lurker64]

There's a bit of intellectual dishonesty here, in that people tend to strongy affiliate themselves with "pro-Thompson" or "anti-Thompson" camps and that colors pretty much everything that happens.

The Packers go 13-3, and the Pro-Thompson people see themselves as vindicated, the Anti-Thompson people see this as an anomaly pointing to all the close games they won.

The Packers go 6-10, and the Anti-Thompson people see themselves as vindicated, while the Pro-Thompson people see this as an anomaly, pointing to all the close games they lost.

All in all, I think Thompson is a well above average GM, who's weakest in terms of "signing top free agents" and strongest in the draft. He's a bad public speaker, but a good evaluator of talent. You can win superbowls with Thompson's method, the Steelers and the early Patriots superbowl teams prove it, whether or not Thompson himself is going to be able to pull it off? Who knows.

We have a roster with holes in it, but every roster has holes in it (Pittsburgh, who just won the superbowl, has a terrible offensive line). There is, however, a good core of talent here, insofar as nobody would really be surprised if Green Bay was back in the NFC championship game next year. We have the talent to make games close, and close games are won in a number of ways. A play made here or there, a slight advantage in talent, a slight advantage in coaching, whatever. We're certainly not anywhere close to a team that will blow everybody out every Sunday, but those are few and far between. Given the number of close games they lost last year, I think it won't exactly take a lot in order to turn things around for Green Bay. Since they didn't exactly win any of those close games, I think we probably (*knock on wood*) hit bottom this year. I do think that not only is Thompson not close to being fired, but he's not even close to the hot seat yet. Everything I hear from impartial circles (i.e. informed people, not random packer fans on the internet) is that Thompson's job is as secure as most GMs in the league. Just because some subset of the fans hate you, doesn't mean you're anywhere near the door. Carl Peterson was the GM of the Chiefs for 19 years while the fans hated him the whole time, and the Chiefs are the only other team in the league anywhere close to the Packers in terms of "Fan Oriented".

But who knows? Hindsight is 20/20. If you dig deep into everybody's draft picks and free agent signings, you can make anybody look like an idiot. Pioli drafted Chad Jackson over Greg Jennings... what an idiot...

[Partial]

I would be curious to know what the average margin of victory in the NFL is. 5 points or less is pretty standard I would think. I would say the average is higher because the blow outs will bring it up, but I'd guess most games in the 25%-75% range are settled by ~5 points (just a guess, not at all scientific).

As I have stated numerous times, its convienant to blame the defense that gave up last second points, but its also irresonsible and unfair to not hold any blame to offense for only putting up one touchdown against the vikes, one touchdown against the Titans and Jags, etc.

I don't think anyone would have a problem with Thompson's refusal to pay for FA's if he was a lights out drafter.

So far, he's been a pleasant surprise from Sherman, but he has been far from Ozzie Newsome, if you will.

A great talent evaluator != necessarily equal a great GM. Phil Savage was a horrible GM but he is known within league circles as one of the finest talent evaluators in the league.

[bobblehead]

Loosing 6 games by 5 points or less has NOTHING to do with the general manager. NOTHING. Our biggest need is on the defense. So he spent lots and lots of money on it. ON COACHES.

Compare these two teams for instance over the last 10 years:

Washington Redskins - 10 years = 1 playoff win


Pittsburgh Steelers - 10 years = 11 playoff wins (two super bowls)

Now, google all the Big Name Free Agents Snyder has signed.

Try to do a similar search for the Steelers. I couldnt name one OL on that team. Oh but we all know the Jets OL dont we??

I'm glad he is not signing 36 year olds to 5 year deals and putting them in the top 5 of all salaries on the team.

You forgot to mention all the big name FA's that pittsburg let go to get overpaid....Plaxico, joey porter, forget that guard from last year everyone wanted. The evidence is pretty sharp that the pittsburg model, the TT model, is the best in producing a winner.

[bobblehead]

TT will never be fired... he is a decent talent evaluator, and will continue to bring in enough talent thru the draft to keep the Packers in the 8-8 to 10-6 range... they'll never fire a 10-6 GM.

Carl Peterson never won anything... at least that I can remember; yet, he was a decent GM, kept his KC reasonably competitive, and was never seriously in danger of losing his job... I'm beginning to see TT the same way.

Maybe. Unlike KC, they went deep into the playoffs only a year ago. Personally, I'm O.K. with a GM fielding a team that can get within one pass away of the superbowl. Next time around, maybe that play goes our way.

I look at it this way. He cleaned house his first year and had a very bad year. After that year, he continued to bring in fresh blood, both coaches and players and had two years of steady improvement. Last year was a clearly a step back. The difference between winning and losing is razor thin with all the parity of late, and the Packers were within a hair of winning many of the games they lost. I am going to wait and see if they can get that hair back this year.

One good season with a little bit of magic here and there isn't going to cover the other 3 season of failure.

Besides boiling that game against the Giants down to the interception by Favre shows your lack of football knowledge forgiving loyalty to the Packers. If anything that int showed just how dependent the team was on Favre. Where was the running game? Where was the run defense? Where was the fuck was Al Harris? The defense couldn't get it's ass of the field the entire second half.

He didn't blame the game on that interception and your attempt to characterize it that way shows you are being disingenuous or lack reading comprehension...he said we were one pass away...AS A TEAM...and came up short.

[Lurker64]

I don't think anyone would have a problem with Thompson's refusal to pay for FA's if he was a lights out drafter.

So far, he's been a pleasant surprise from Sherman, but he has been far from Ozzie Newsome, if you will.

A great talent evaluator != necessarily equal a great GM. Phil Savage was a horrible GM but he is known within league circles as one of the finest talent evaluators in the league.

Well, in the 2005 draft that was one of the worst in recent memory, Thompson did manage to select 3 starters, including 1 all-pro (Collins) and a starting QB who likely has many Pro Bowls to come (Rodgers). All in all, that's one of the best drafts that year. I mean, among NFC North teams, only four players drafted in 2005 are still with their respective teams.

Let's take a look at 2006 after next year?

Phil Savage's problems with a GM were basically due to the fact that he would fall in love with guys and spend whatever it took to get them, and basically ended up with no draft picks at all. I don't think Thompson is going to fall down that hole.

[Partial]

Well, in the 2005 draft that was one of the worst in recent memory, Thompson did manage to select 3 starters, including 1 all-pro (Collins) and a starting QB who likely has many Pro Bowls to come (Rodgers). All in all, that's one of the best drafts that year. I mean, among NFC North teams, only four players drafted in 2005 are still with their respective teams.

Let's take a look at 2006 after next year?

Phil Savage's problems with a GM were basically due to the fact that he would fall in love with guys and spend whatever it took to get them, and basically ended up with no draft picks at all. I don't think Thompson is going to fall down that hole.

I agree about Savage. I'm not ready to coin Collins an all-pro yet, as he had one great year, one good year, and two average years in the middle. If he remains surrounded by the level of offensive talent we have, then yes, Rodgers will get to a few pro bowls, but we won't have the money to field an elite defense (unless TT drafts really well and hits on some guys).

I agree that Thompson won't ever fall for a dude and do whatever it takes to get him. That is a good/bad thing. Ron Wolf always said you can't be afraid to make a mistake. If he thinks he can get the next Brett Favre or Tom Brady or premiere DE (in this case OLB Lawrence Taylor), you've got to do whatever it takes to get them imo. Obviously you exercise caution and have to be confident and make sure you're not going to strike out completely, because if you do, you'll lose your job (see the Gary Payton trade costing Harris his job).

[bobblehead]

Its going to be funny when TT trades up to 3/4 to get the second best LT in the draft.....ok, I'm probably pipe dreaming but you heard it here first...unless I'm wrong.

[sheepshead]

Loosing 6 games by 5 points or less has NOTHING to do with the general manager. NOTHING. Our biggest need is on the defense. So he spent lots and lots of money on it. ON COACHES.

Compare these two teams for instance over the last 10 years:

Washington Redskins - 10 years = 1 playoff win


Pittsburgh Steelers - 10 years = 11 playoff wins (two super bowls)

Now, google all the Big Name Free Agents Snyder has signed.

Try to do a similar search for the Steelers. I couldnt name one OL on that team. Oh but we all know the Jets OL dont we??

I'm glad he is not signing 36 year olds to 5 year deals and putting them in the top 5 of all salaries on the team.

You forgot to mention all the big name FA's that pittsburg let go to get overpaid....Plaxico, joey porter, forget that guard from last year everyone wanted. The evidence is pretty sharp that the pittsburg model, the TT model, is the best in producing a winner.


Good Post Script.


Faneca everyone here was drooling over him.

[sharpe1027]

One good season with a little bit of magic here and there isn't going to cover the other 3 season of failure.

Besides boiling that game against the Giants down to the interception by Favre shows your lack of football knowledge forgiving loyalty to the Packers. If anything that int showed just how dependent the team was on Favre. Where was the running game? Where was the run defense? Where was the fuck was Al Harris? The defense couldn't get it's ass of the field the entire second half.

For fucks sake. The point wasn't that the pass lost the game. The point was how close the entire team was to making it. I have always defended Favre for that pass. It was one pass that just got away from him a little bit. The weather was miserable and that out pattern is one of the more difficult passes to make.

How about you take a second to understand the point of what I wrote before calling out my football knowledge and loyalty? Then kindly go stick it where the sun doesn't shine.

[cheesner]

There's a bit of intellectual dishonesty here, in that people tend to strongy affiliate themselves with "pro-Thompson" or "anti-Thompson" camps and that colors pretty much everything that happens.

The Packers go 13-3, and the Pro-Thompson people see themselves as vindicated, the Anti-Thompson people see this as an anomaly pointing to all the close games they won.

The Packers go 6-10, and the Anti-Thompson people see themselves as vindicated, while the Pro-Thompson people see this as an anomaly, pointing to all the close games they lost.

All in all, I think Thompson is a well above average GM, who's weakest in terms of "signing top free agents" and strongest in the draft. He's a bad public speaker, but a good evaluator of talent. You can win superbowls with Thompson's method, the Steelers and the early Patriots superbowl teams prove it, whether or not Thompson himself is going to be able to pull it off? Who knows.

We have a roster with holes in it, but every roster has holes in it (Pittsburgh, who just won the superbowl, has a terrible offensive line). There is, however, a good core of talent here, insofar as nobody would really be surprised if Green Bay was back in the NFC championship game next year. We have the talent to make games close, and close games are won in a number of ways. A play made here or there, a slight advantage in talent, a slight advantage in coaching, whatever. We're certainly not anywhere close to a team that will blow everybody out every Sunday, but those are few and far between. Given the number of close games they lost last year, I think it won't exactly take a lot in order to turn things around for Green Bay. Since they didn't exactly win any of those close games, I think we probably (*knock on wood*) hit bottom this year. I do think that not only is Thompson not close to being fired, but he's not even close to the hot seat yet. Everything I hear from impartial circles (i.e. informed people, not random packer fans on the internet) is that Thompson's job is as secure as most GMs in the league. Just because some subset of the fans hate you, doesn't mean you're anywhere near the door. Carl Peterson was the GM of the Chiefs for 19 years while the fans hated him the whole time, and the Chiefs are the only other team in the league anywhere close to the Packers in terms of "Fan Oriented".

But who knows? Hindsight is 20/20. If you dig deep into everybody's draft picks and free agent signings, you can make anybody look like an idiot. Pioli drafted Chad Jackson over Greg Jennings... what an idiot...
Nice post.

So much time is spent 'defending' your side and 'attacking' the other takes away from intelligent discussion. For me, I lean pro TT but find I have to defend him because the attacks on him are ridiculous falsehoods and often out of line.

TT is trying to make the team better. Although his methods may not be the way someone else would do it, it is a very valid method. I am also of the belief that the core is here. We have a couple of playmakers on offense, and our defense may have a few also. I think improved coaching will make a huge difference on that side of the ball. With even a little improvement by the o-line we can be very dominating on that side of the ball. I am also betting that the parts are mostly in place for Dom to work some wonders with this defense. In about 6 months we will be surprised at how few holes actually needing filling by the draft.

[sharpe1027]

For me, I lean pro TT but find I have to defend him because the attacks on him are ridiculous falsehoods and often out of line.


Yes.

I guess you can call me "pro-TT." My personal view is that I would like to to see how things turn out this year before running him out of town. When I look below the surface of last years record, I see some things that give me some hope for this year.

Like it or not, he is our GM for all of this year. Which, in my book, makes him a Packer.

[sheepshead]

Well, in the 2005 draft that was one of the worst in recent memory, Thompson did manage to select 3 starters, including 1 all-pro (Collins) and a starting QB who likely has many Pro Bowls to come (Rodgers). All in all, that's one of the best drafts that year. I mean, among NFC North teams, only four players drafted in 2005 are still with their respective teams.

Let's take a look at 2006 after next year?

Phil Savage's problems with a GM were basically due to the fact that he would fall in love with guys and spend whatever it took to get them, and basically ended up with no draft picks at all. I don't think Thompson is going to fall down that hole.

I agree about Savage. I'm not ready to coin Collins an all-pro yet, as he had one great year, one good year, and two average years in the middle. If he remains surrounded by the level of offensive talent we have, then yes, Rodgers will get to a few pro bowls, but we won't have the money to field an elite defense (unless TT drafts really well and hits on some guys).

I agree that Thompson won't ever fall for a dude and do whatever it takes to get him. That is a good/bad thing. Ron Wolf always said you can't be afraid to make a mistake. If he thinks he can get the next Brett Favre or Tom Brady or premiere DE (in this case OLB Lawrence Taylor), you've got to do whatever it takes to get them imo. Obviously you exercise caution and have to be confident and make sure you're not going to strike out completely, because if you do, you'll lose your job (see the Gary Payton trade costing Harris his job).


Collins will be an all-pro when collins is an all-pro. Its not your call.

[mraynrand]

Loosing 6 games by 5 points or less has NOTHING to do with the general manager. NOTHING. Our biggest need is on the defense. So he spent lots and lots of money on it. ON COACHES.

Compare these two teams for instance over the last 10 years:

Washington Redskins - 10 years = 1 playoff win


Pittsburgh Steelers - 10 years = 11 playoff wins (two super bowls)

Now, google all the Big Name Free Agents Snyder has signed.

Try to do a similar search for the Steelers. I couldnt name one OL on that team. Oh but we all know the Jets OL dont we??

I'm glad he is not signing 36 year olds to 5 year deals and putting them in the top 5 of all salaries on the team.

Good post. Check out the Eagles as well. I think their forays into FA have been pretty modest. Even Ne, which has relied on some FAs, didn't exactly break the bank to get their guys in there...

[Partial]

Collins will be an all-pro when collins is an all-pro. Its not your call.

Ok, well, in that case, Nick Collins is not an All-Pro, since he hasn't ever been named to an all-pro roster. Stings, doesn't it?

[sheepshead]

Collins will be an all-pro when collins is an all-pro. Its not your call.

Ok, well, in that case, Nick Collins is not an All-Pro, since he hasn't ever been named to an all-pro roster. Stings, doesn't it?

That's exactly my point-God you are both dense and an absolute antagonist.

[red]

Loosing 6 games by 5 points or less has NOTHING to do with the general manager. NOTHING. Our biggest need is on the defense. So he spent lots and lots of money on it. ON COACHES.

Compare these two teams for instance over the last 10 years:

Washington Redskins - 10 years = 1 playoff win


Pittsburgh Steelers - 10 years = 11 playoff wins (two super bowls)

Now, google all the Big Name Free Agents Snyder has signed.

Try to do a similar search for the Steelers. I couldnt name one OL on that team. Oh but we all know the Jets OL dont we??

I'm glad he is not signing 36 year olds to 5 year deals and putting them in the top 5 of all salaries on the team.

Good post. Check out the Eagles as well. I think their forays into FA have been pretty modest. Even Ne, which has relied on some FAs, didn't exactly break the bank to get their guys in there...

well thats just it. tt has averaged like 1 fa addition per year, even though we have had many needs over those years, some of which still haven't been fixed

the first year he got klemm and o'dwire, because we needed guards. niether one broke the bank, but they were both decent atempts at getting something we needed. neither made it. but i give him credit for trying

the next year i think it was pickett, nice pickup, but that was it, still many other needs

then woodson, or was he the year before. either way, good pickup. and tt opened his purse to make a big addition. still other areas thaat needed help

then chillar, nothing big, but a nice pickup. more additions like this would be great. we still need help in a lot of places

canty and igor are not top shelf free agents, they are just solid role players that would have filled an area of need. a 6.5 million dollar average is not breaking the bank. in fact its BS, the actual deal is worth much less then that, probably 4.5 to 5 million a year

i don't see anyone on here bitching that we didn't sign haynesworth. no one wants tt to just spend to spend

but with tt's philosophy about drafting best player available, you aren't going to be drafting players all the time that you actually need, like the nelson pick last year. you're still going to be left with holes, if you continue to ignore needs because the players don''t rank high enough on your board

and if that happens that you have to go to free agency to fill those needs

our o-line is still a mess, this year we might have 4 or 5 guys starting at new positions. meaning we're starting over on the o-line

and honestly the d-line is a giant question mark, with zero depth

i would feel a lot more comfortable going into next year with some guys on the roster that have proven they can play in the nfl in the schemes we are going to be ruuning. even if they are 2nd or 3rd cllass free agents

at least it would look like we are trying to improve, not just sitting back and hoping the dice we roll in the draft comes up 6's

[Deputy Nutz]

2005
Klemm
O'dwyer

2006
Manuel
Pickett
Woodson

2007
Frank Walker

2008
Chillar

[Fred's Slacks]

our o-line is still a mess, this year we might have 4 or 5 guys starting at new positions. meaning we're starting over on the o-line

and honestly the d-line is a giant question mark, with zero depth



This is the one problem I have with TT.

I completely agree with his philosophy of building primarily through the draft and supplementing with "value" free agents. I like that he picks BPA in the draft because needs are only perceived and you never know when a position of strength will become one of weakness and vice versa. You might as well boost your odds of hitting by taking the best player and not create more need positions because you neglected them.

That said, I think more emphasis has to be placed on the OL and DL. These positions are of such high importance that it really doesn't matter how much talent you have at other positions. If you're weak on the line, you're going to struggle. In turn, sometimes you can be a little weak at other positions but if your line is strong you can compensate and/or hide your weakness easier. So, maybe these are spots where he needs to make exceptions. Maybe he needs to pay a little more. I still dont' think Canty was worth 8 mill a year but Igor may have been worth 5. Maybe instead of taking a S or WR cause they are the best on the board, if there is a lineman that's close we need to reach a little to make sure those positions are solid.

So, I'm not completely sold on TT but I do like the way he operates. I like how he never shows his cards. I like how he always does his homework and doesn't just jump at the flavor of the month. But, if he doesn't get the lines fixed, we won't win many games and he won't be around too long. I hope he gets it done because I think we could do a hell of a lot worse.

[red]

2005
Klemm
O'dwyer

2006
Manuel
Pickett
Woodson

2007
Frank Walker

2008
Chillar

can anyone blame me for completely forgetting about manuel and walker? lol

and fred

canty didn't get 8 million a year, it's 6.5 a year

[Fred's Slacks]

2005
Klemm
O'dwyer

2006
Manuel
Pickett
Woodson

2007
Frank Walker

2008
Chillar

can anyone blame me for completely forgetting about manuel and walker? lol

and fred

canty didn't get 8 million a year, it's 6.5 a year

Maybe I was a little high. But 6.5 from the Giants means we'd have had to pay over 7 to get him to come here. Its still too much IMO.

[Lurker64]

Collins will be an all-pro when collins is an all-pro. Its not your call.

Ok, well, in that case, Nick Collins is not an All-Pro, since he hasn't ever been named to an all-pro roster. Stings, doesn't it?

Huh? 2008 All-Pro Roster (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/nfl/01/09/all-pro-roster.ap/index.html)

Stings, doesn't it? ;)

[KYPack]

2005
Klemm
O'dwyer

2006
Manuel
Pickett
Woodson

2007
Frank Walker

2008
Chillar

Not sure about the years, but there were some other "Street FA's"

Arturo Freeman S 2005
Earl Little S 2005
Ben Taylor LB extraordinaire 2006
Raynoch Thompson see above 2005

[SnakeLH2006]

2005
Klemm
O'dwyer

2006
Manuel
Pickett
Woodson

2007
Frank Walker

2008
Chillar

Not sure about the years, but there were some other "Street FA's"

Arturo Freeman S 2005
Earl Little S 2005
Ben Taylor LB extraordinaire 2006
Raynoch Thompson see above 2005

Snake feels the new FA safety signing will end up like those LEGENDARY former Packer greats as well. But we'll see.