The great unknowns.

[Patler]

Of all the recent draft classes, we probably learned less about the 2008 class in their first year than any other class in their first year. Only Nelson played enough to get any feel for him at all. Yet, on several occasions TT has professed his belief that it will turn out to be a very good class. Recently he said he still expects it to produce a lot of starters in the near future. He has made these statements when he didn't have to, when he could have said much less. I know it can all be a smokescreen, and privately he might be kicking himself for some of the selections, but I still look forward the the second year for each of them.

Which of the following will be household names for Packer fans in 2012?

Nelson
Brohm
Lee
Finley
Thompson
Sitton
Giacomini
Flynn
Swain

[Partial]

Certainly Thompson. He is going to be given every opportunity to win the wide open ROLB spot. I think Sitton will be starting by 2010 :)

[Patler]

I think Sitton will be starting by 2010 :)

Not by 2009?? :lol: :lol:

[Partial]

I think he probably should be, but I don't think that necessarily means he will be

[Joemailman]

Nelson, Finley, Thompson, Sitton, Giacomini

[Patler]

Nelson, Finley, Thompson, Sitton, Giacomini

No love for Lee? :( :( :(

[Patler]

Nelson, Finley, Thompson, Sitton, Giacomini

If they all become legit starters, that would be an excellent draft class.

I am hopeful one of the QBs can be transformed into a draft choice via trade by 2012, and the other can be a reasonably competent backup for the Packers.

[Joemailman]

Not sure about Lee yet. Hard for me to judge whether he was a disappointment last year, or just a guy who hasn't gotten his opportunity yet.

[Joemailman]

Nelson, Finley, Thompson, Sitton, Giacomini

If they all become legit starters, that would be an excellent draft class.

I am hopeful one of the QBs can be transformed into a draft choice via trade by 2012, and the other can be a reasonably competent backup for the Packers.

I think all 5 have an excellent chance to be starters. I agree that would be an excellent class. I'm not used to the Packers backup QB being a household name. Hope it stays that way.

[Patler]

I'm not used to the Packers backup QB being a household name. Hope it stays that way.

Good point!
By 2012, I would like one to become a household name like Hasselbeck did, and the other, among Packer fans at least, like Petersen did. That would be a perfect situation in my opinion.

[Patler]

Not sure about Lee yet. Hard for me to judge whether he was a disappointment last year, or just a guy who hasn't gotten his opportunity yet.

I think the same can be said for many in that class. Giacominini blew the one chance he had by being injured at the end of the season. We saw nothing of him at all. Just curious, why are you willing to include him in the list for 2012?

[Joemailman]

Because you don't mess with a guy whose name is Breno Giacomini.

There have been reports that the Packer coaches are very high on Giaco (See? Great nickname) despite the fact he didn't really do anything as a rookie. He has the size and frame to become a much stronger guy than he was as a rookie. I just haven't heard anything about how they feel about Lee.

[Patler]

Because you don't mess with a guy whose name is Breno Giacomini.

I thought that was guys named "Leroy Brown" or "Jim" or something like that! :lol: :lol:

[red]

i think lee could end up being a damn good cb. i liked what i saw of him early last season before he got hurt

[Patler]

i liked what i saw of him early last season before he got hurt

Really? I'm not trying to be a wise guy or anything. It's just that I thought in the limited opportunities he had last year he looked a little lost. Certainly something that experience can overcome, so I have hope, but its due to his reported potential and not anything I saw last year.

Maybe I'm forgetting something or a particular game???

[Rastak]

Because you don't mess with a guy whose name is Breno Giacomini.

I thought that was guys named "Leroy Brown" or "Jim" or something like that! :lol: :lol:


Actually you don't mess with either. One will re-arrange your face.....the other will give you a kiss and the next day you'll be riddled with bullets.

[Joemailman]

If McCarthy doesn't start Breno, he will be sleeping with the fishes.

[red]

i liked what i saw of him early last season before he got hurt

Really? I'm not trying to be a wise guy or anything. It's just that I thought in the limited opportunities he had last year he looked a little lost. Certainly something that experience can overcome, so I have hope, but its due to his reported potential and not anything I saw last year.

Maybe I'm forgetting something or a particular game???

yeah, i might have been preseason, but i know i remember thinking a few times that the kid had potential

[Lurker64]

Maybe I'm forgetting something or a particular game???

The thing about Lee is that you look at him, and you see all the physical tools you would want in an NFL corner, but he does look a little (a lot) lost at times, out there. Seems to me a similar thing happened to him in college, where he finally put it together for his senior year. I think he's just not a quick study. With good coaching, he should be fine. With great coaching, he could be outstanding.

[packer4life]

As far as the TE position goes, I am very intrigued as to the potential Finley has to bust out and catch around 40 balls next year. He may need another year, but I wouldn't be surprised if this kid goes off with a season of NFL coaching under his belt.

That damn fade route, with all its lack of success last year, good be more successful. Clearly, he showed enough in practice for the team to trust him on 3rd and short (when gains are most imp). He flopped in many of those chances last year - look for that to change.

If he becomes a real threat, the sky is the limit for our offense. Takes a lot of pressure off of Driver/Jennings, and can open up the running game as teams may not trust a backer on him.

[wist43]

Of all the recent draft classes, we probably learned less about the 2008 class in their first year than any other class in their first year. Only Nelson played enough to get any feel for him at all. Yet, on several occasions TT has professed his belief that it will turn out to be a very good class. Recently he said he still expects it to produce a lot of starters in the near future. He has made these statements when he didn't have to, when he could have said much less. I know it can all be a smokescreen, and privately he might be kicking himself for some of the selections, but I still look forward the the second year for each of them.

Which of the following will be household names for Packer fans in 2012?

Nelson
Brohm
Lee
Finley
Thompson
Sitton
Giacomini
Flynn
Swain

I like the draft in general, at least in terms of players; but again, it smacks of TT's "win some day" approach.

Is Nelson Drivers replacement??? I like Finley and Thompson, but the Thompson pick is now wasted, as I see him as strictly a 4-3 End, same as Kampman.

Also like Sitton... Lee has bust written all over him.

[Waldo]

I don't know why you don't think Thompson can succeed at OLB, I have him rated higher at 3-4 OLB than as a 4-3 DE. His movement ability, agility, and quickness translates very well to OLB, and he had a great deal of coverage experience at Wake, backpedaling is not new to him. I was surprised that we took him, when we did I thought that we might be migrating to a hybrid D, since he is a stout elephant LB, not as explosive as some of the studs, but good against the run on the edges and good in coverage drops. Rushing the passer is definitely the weakest part of his game, but the tools are there. I like him a great deal at SOLB, but not as much at WOLB.

[Lurker64]

I agree with Waldo that at the time the Thompson pick was curious, since it looked like they were taking a guy who was born to play 3-4 OLB and we were trying to shoehorn him into a 4-3 DE just because he had some physical ability. But now, the pick makes a lot of sense. I mean, he was a read and react DE who played in coverage a lot at Wake. What part of that doesn't scream "3-4 OLB"?

Thompson is closer to a "pure 3-4 OLB" than a "pure 4-3 DE", especially since last year's campaign doesn't highly recommend him at DE.

[texaspackerbacker]

Your typical negativity, wist.

Around here, everybody who ever set foot on the practice field is a household name. If the standard is who will have a decent career in the NFL, probably with the Packers, then I'd say all of those on the list except maybe Swain.

If the standard is starting or more accurately, playing in the regular rotation next season, Sitton, Thompson, and Nelson. I don't think Finley is quite ready to start of split time 50/50 with Donald Lee. I wouldn't be surprised to see Patrick Lee move ahead of Blackmon as the 4th Corner. And Giacomino might start, but I'd say is less than 50/50 at OT.

Waldo, I'm surprised you see pass rush as the weakest part of Thompson's game. I would think that would be his strength.

[Patler]

Around here, everybody who ever set foot on the practice field is a household name. If the standard is who will have a decent career in the NFL, probably with the Packers, then I'd say all of those on the list except maybe Swain.

If the standard is starting or more accurately, playing in the regular rotation next season, Sitton, Thompson, and Nelson. I don't think Finley is quite ready to start of split time 50/50 with Donald Lee. I wouldn't be surprised to see Patrick Lee move ahead of Blackmon as the 4th Corner. And Giacomino might start, but I'd say is less than 50/50 at OT.

Waldo, I'm surprised you see pass rush as the weakest part of Thompson's game. I would think that would be his strength.

Tex;
You need to read more carefully! Your questions were answered in my original post :wink: :lol:

Anyone on the practice field may be a household name, but many fans also forget quite quickly all those players who come and go, but never make an impact, The Rats may remember them for years, but not all fans do. That is why I asked who would be a household name in 2012. Those who wash out this year or next will no longer be household names in 2012.

As to whether "the standard is starting or more accurately, playing in the regular rotation next season" see again my reference to 2012.. What I was getting at is which and how many of the 2008 draft class will be around and contributing in the 5th season after they were drafted. I picked 2012 because rookie contracts will be up, and they will have been renewed or let go. Will 2008 really be one of the nucleus years around which the team is built, or will it provide just a player or two for the long term?

[KYPack]

I don't know why you don't think Thompson can succeed at OLB, I have him rated higher at 3-4 OLB than as a 4-3 DE. His movement ability, agility, and quickness translates very well to OLB, and he had a great deal of coverage experience at Wake, backpedaling is not new to him. I was surprised that we took him, when we did I thought that we might be migrating to a hybrid D, since he is a stout elephant LB, not as explosive as some of the studs, but good against the run on the edges and good in coverage drops. Rushing the passer is definitely the weakest part of his game, but the tools are there. I like him a great deal at SOLB, but not as much at WOLB.

I really like Thompson. For a good bit of the season, I was really down on him. He wasn't ready to be an NFL RDE in 4-3 and I didn't think much of his play.

Then around the 10th game, he made a play on ST that popped my eyes out. A return man broke one and was basically gone. Thompson (the player, not the GM) came from nowhere and made a saving tackle, showing unreal speed for a down lineman. The guy is talented. Our staff hasn't been the greatest for developing potential. Let's see if this new D staff can take guys like Thompson and refine their skills and make 'em stars for us.

[wist43]

I like Thompson... he showed some ability last year. He looks like Kampman; similar builds, playing styles.

I see them both as a strictly 4-3 Ends... Silverstein wrote an article a week or so ago, saying the same thing. Just see both of those guys as being far too stiff and unathletic in space to function at OLB.

Kampman is great as 4-3 End, and I think Thompson can be good there too... both of them will be wasted as OLB's.

I agree with Silverstein about 1/2 the time now... rarely agreed with him in the past as I saw him as too much of homer - he seems to be seeing the pig w/o lipstick these days :)

[bobblehead]

My expectations for THIS year are:

Sitton will lock down the RG spot and make it his bitch. The kid is nasty and there is no keeping him out of the lineup another year.

Finley will become a huge contributor in the passing game...particularly in the red zone where the fade to finley will become a staple. He probably won't be able to run block though.

Nelson will show some more flashes but not get enough opportunities....he and others are still a year away for a myriad of reasons.

[sharpe1027]

I like Thompson... he showed some ability last year. He looks like Kampman; similar builds, playing styles.

I see them both as a strictly 4-3 Ends... Silverstein wrote an article a week or so ago, saying the same thing. Just see both of those guys as being far too stiff and unathletic in space to function at OLB.

Kampman is great as 4-3 End, and I think Thompson can be good there too... both of them will be wasted as OLB's.

I agree with Silverstein about 1/2 the time now... rarely agreed with him in the past as I saw him as too much of homer - he seems to be seeing the pig w/o lipstick these days :)

I don't really agree. In fact, I think you have it backward. Just because they were playing in a 4-3 doesn't mean that is the best fit for them. I see them as two guys that weren't particularly suited for playing 4-3 end but their athletic ability and/or work-ethic allowed them to succeed as a 4-3 end.

I am willing to admit that I don't know for sure, but I think that you tend to overstate your position. Stepping back, don't you think that claiming that they will be wasted at OLB is a bit much. You realize it calls out everyone who was presenting facts and arguments to the contrary. Perhaps if explain why you see them as stiff and not-athletic? If not, I think that others have presented pretty solid analysis (supported with facts) to the contrary.

[sharpe1027]

My expectations for THIS year are:

Sitton will lock down the RG spot and make it his bitch. The kid is nasty and there is no keeping him out of the lineup another year.

Finley will become a huge contributor in the passing game...particularly in the red zone where the fade to finley will become a staple. He probably won't be able to run block though.

Nelson will show some more flashes but not get enough opportunities....he and others are still a year away for a myriad of reasons.

I agree on all accounts.

I would add that I think Nelson is a very good #3, but a very average #2. Unfortunately, I do not see him making a huge jump in production from this point on. I was unimpressed with his ability to get separation and his flashes were not that spectacular, IMHO. I hope I am wrong on him. :)

[texaspackerbacker]

Sorry Patler. I'll try and read better next time :lol:

I definitely appreciate this and threads like this.

As for Thompson, I don't see him as that much like Kampman. Kampman came in bigger--295 or whatever--and slimmed down. He still isn't super athletic, although he certainly is more than adequate. He uses smarts and hustle to get the job done.

Thompson came in a little bit light and a lot inexperienced. Based on his measuraables and the way I thought he looked in limited time last year, he seems very athletic--not "stiff" as some have called him. It remains to be seen whether he will develop the smarts, get the experience, and show the hustle of Kampman--but I'm hopeful. He seems to have the makings of a prototype 3-4 pass rushing OLB.

[3irty1]

Thompson was just starting to come into his own as a pass rusher when he was drafted. When he was pressed into service last year he wasn't a pass rushing force or anything but he did look like a handful at times and did a decent job of bending and sealing the edge. If nothing else I think he compliments Kampman beautifully but could also become a terror in the rush game.

[wist43]

I like Thompson... he showed some ability last year. He looks like Kampman; similar builds, playing styles.

I see them both as a strictly 4-3 Ends... Silverstein wrote an article a week or so ago, saying the same thing. Just see both of those guys as being far too stiff and unathletic in space to function at OLB.

Kampman is great as 4-3 End, and I think Thompson can be good there too... both of them will be wasted as OLB's.

I agree with Silverstein about 1/2 the time now... rarely agreed with him in the past as I saw him as too much of homer - he seems to be seeing the pig w/o lipstick these days :)

I don't really agree. In fact, I think you have it backward. Just because they were playing in a 4-3 doesn't mean that is the best fit for them. I see them as two guys that weren't particularly suited for playing 4-3 end but their athletic ability and/or work-ethic allowed them to succeed as a 4-3 end.

I am willing to admit that I don't know for sure, but I think that you tend to overstate your position. Stepping back, don't you think that claiming that they will be wasted at OLB is a bit much. You realize it calls out everyone who was presenting facts and arguments to the contrary. Perhaps if explain why you see them as stiff and not-athletic? If not, I think that others have presented pretty solid analysis (supported with facts) to the contrary.

Not calling anyone out... and the fact that you think I am simply by disagreeing on speculative position changes is somewhat Orwellian. Agree, or be called out??? Is my name Winston Smith???

As I've said, my view is not the minority view in other venues... 1250, 620, Silverstein... haven't read McGinn lately, but he and I generally agree, so i wouldn't doubt that he's on board with a healthy dose of skepticism. The fact that my view is the minority view on this board, but in the majority in other venues, tends to make my case that PR is, in general, overrun with homers. I want our team to win too... but, I'm not going to go thru my Packer fandom wearing rose colored glasses.

When these guys were drafted... they were HOF 4-3 players, right??? They failed miserably playing the positions they were drafted to play, and now I'm supposed to believe you guys, that they are going to be HOF 3-4 players??? Snake oil...

I fully expect Kampman to get his sacks, but that doesn't mean he's a good fit for a 3-4... as I've said, I expect to be seeing a lot more 4-3, with Kamps hand on the ground, than I do seeing him drop into coverage... there are simply too many players on that side of the ball that lack the skills necessary to effectively carry out a 3-4 scheme.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Then around the 10th game, he made a play on ST that popped my eyes out. A return man broke one and was basically gone. Thompson (the player, not the GM) came from nowhere and made a saving tackle, showing unreal speed for a down lineman. The guy is talented. Our staff hasn't been the greatest for developing potential. Let's see if this new D staff can take guys like Thompson and refine their skills and make 'em stars for us.

You sure that was Thompson and not Hunter? I ask because I've seen Hunter make some "wow" plays on special teams, and it's part of the reason I like him. I've seen these types of plays a few other times with some young guys (Nick Collins and Corey Bradford stick out).