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View Full Version : Tramon Williams' New Contract: Yay or Nay



SnakeLH2006
03-12-2009, 01:09 AM
So the debate in the last thread about TWill's wanting a new contract broke into a spirited debate over the age-old taboo of signing exclusive rights FA's (guys with 1 or 2 years in the league) to long term deals, when Ryan Grant's name came up. POLL TIME! :D

So, Snake's not alone in never being a big fan of the Grant contract not because of his 2008 production (although he has underwhelmed expectations since 2007), but because we gave him a quite a bit of cash (#13 highest paid RB) for very little on the resume at the time (his 2007 games)...without having to break the bank (and esp. without buying out of few FA years).

Many point to his production in 2008 as steady, sobeit. Many have been adverse to this signing since day 1...Everyone has an opinion. That's cool. His contract is not terrible, but it is what it is. Don't turn this into a Ryan Grant thread unless directly comparing the two, please...ThanX. TWill has done a ton more in 2 years in showing future ability, than Grant did in his first year in GB when he got that deal.

The problem was this set a precedent for other players who perform early in GB. TWill comes to mind.

Waldo made some excellent statistical analysis' as to TWill's strengths:



He also made a lot of plays.

He ranked #20 in the NFL in passes broken up. With Wood and Nick ahead of him, only 17 other teams in the NFL had any DB break up more passes than him.

He ranked #6 in the NFL in interceptions, by far the most of any nickel CB.

He ranked #17 in the NFL (tied with a lot of guys) in FF's

Overall he ranked #7 in the NFL in forced turnovers.


While it's true that TWill DOES need to hone some finer points to be compared to Wood or Al right now, he's 24 (and all the talent in the world), yet they are both getting older by the minute and Al is 35 this year. Yikes. I'd put my money on the 24 year old while we can.

I wouldn't be mad at all if TT signed TWill to a 5 year deal for $20 million, as of right now, he's probably capable of starting for several NFL teams at CB. Some detract TWill's mistakes, but he does have playmaking ability, awesome speed, seems to be a bright kid with team-first mentality, and plays some nuts ST with his returning ability (which many forget).

This isn't about Grant, but I'd rather pay this kid than Grant anyday (and that was the day we signed Grant, but didn't have to)....We don't have to pay TWill either, but damn, in 2 years if the the NFL labor deal stays the same he'll be UFA and you think he'll want to play for anything less than $8 or more a year if he keeps progressing (with the CB market going insane)? I doubt it. He'd laugh off a 3 year/$6million deal for sure (as some have said, "let him rot" if not), and I'd too, if I was him or his agent. It's ok to have that opinion, as I'm just curious as to what the masses of PackerRats think about his talent/potential contract.

This kid is one of the most talented young player on our roster by far, so if it didn't work out, 5 years, $20 million, would be ok to burn, as he would only get maybe half of it after 2 years and bonuses. But in 2 years, what would you expect to be our starting CB's? Al..definitely not, Wood...maybe, but prob. at safety.

Your call though. I'd like a deece deal for 5 years, $20 million with the expectation he starts by next year. He's happy, we are happy we don't have a sieve at CB if something happens in 2009 or 2010...Al won't be here much longer... :cry:

Patler
03-12-2009, 06:18 AM
So the debate in the last thread about TWill's wanting a new contract broke into a spirited debate over the age-old taboo of signing exclusive rights FA's (guys with 1 or 2 years in the league) to long term deals, when Ryan Grant's name came up. POLL TIME! :D

So, Snake's not alone in never being a big fan of the Grant contract not because of his 2008 production (although he has underwhelmed expectations since 2007), but because we gave him a quite a bit of cash (#13 highest paid RB) for very little on the resume at the time (his 2007 games)...without having to break the bank (and esp. without buying out of few FA years).

Many point to his production in 2008 as steady, sobeit. Many have been adverse to this signing since day 1...Everyone has an opinion. That's cool. His contract is not terrible, but it is what it is. Don't turn this into a Ryan Grant thread unless directly comparing the two, please...ThanX. TWill has done a ton more in 2 years in showing future ability, than Grant did in his first year in GB when he got that deal.

The problem was this set a precedent for other players who perform early in GB. TWill comes to mind.

Waldo made some excellent statistical analysis' as to TWill's strengths:



He also made a lot of plays.

He ranked #20 in the NFL in passes broken up. With Wood and Nick ahead of him, only 17 other teams in the NFL had any DB break up more passes than him.

He ranked #6 in the NFL in interceptions, by far the most of any nickel CB.

He ranked #17 in the NFL (tied with a lot of guys) in FF's

Overall he ranked #7 in the NFL in forced turnovers.


While it's true that TWill DOES need to hone some finer points to be compared to Wood or Al right now, he's 24 (and all the talent in the world), yet they are both getting older by the minute and Al is 35 this year. Yikes. I'd put my money on the 24 year old while we can.

I wouldn't be mad at all if TT signed TWill to a 5 year deal for $20 million, as of right now, he's probably capable of starting for several NFL teams at CB. Some detract TWill's mistakes, but he does have playmaking ability, awesome speed, seems to be a bright kid with team-first mentality, and plays some nuts ST with his returning ability (which many forget).

This isn't about Grant, but I'd rather pay this kid than Grant anyday (and that was the day we signed Grant, but didn't have to)....We don't have to pay TWill either, but damn, in 2 years if the the NFL labor deal stays the same he'll be UFA and you think he'll want to play for anything less than $8 or more a year if he keeps progressing (with the CB market going insane)? I doubt it. He'd laugh off a 3 year/$6million deal for sure (as some have said, "let him rot" if not), and I'd too, if I was him or his agent. It's ok to have that opinion, as I'm just curious as to what the masses of PackerRats think about his talent/potential contract.

This kid is one of the most talented young player on our roster by far, so if it didn't work out, 5 years, $20 million, would be ok to burn, as he would only get maybe half of it after 2 years and bonuses. But in 2 years, what would you expect to be our starting CB's? Al..definitely not, Wood...maybe, but prob. at safety.

Your call though. I'd like a deece deal for 5 years, $20 million with the expectation he starts by next year. He's happy, we are happy we don't have a sieve at CB if something happens in 2009 or 2010...Al won't be here much longer... :cry:

You don't want this to be about Grant, yet you mention Grant repeatedly.

You emphasize Williams age, call him "young" "kid" etc. but you have it wrong. He is not 24. He will be 26 in a couple days. He is just 3 months younger than Grant and more than a year older than Bush.

PackerPro42
03-12-2009, 07:09 AM
and plus his name is Tramon not Travon

sheepshead
03-12-2009, 08:18 AM
Plus, havent we beat this to death in another thread?

KYPack
03-12-2009, 08:23 AM
You emphasize Williams age, call him "young" "kid" etc. but you have it wrong. He is not 24. He will be 26 in a couple days. He is just 3 months younger than Grant and more than a year older than Bush.

He's 26 on Monday.

Snake and Mission, take the youngblood out and get him wasted.

The new scheme should help TraMon. He like to play close, but still in off cover. That's the best way to play corner in zone blitz.

I'd say sign him. I don't think TT got robbed by Grant's deal. Let's wait and see what come up in the Williams deal.

MadtownPacker
03-12-2009, 02:45 PM
Damn snakey, you got punked/owned the fuck out of on this thread. :lol:

bobblehead
03-12-2009, 04:47 PM
I could live with any of those contracts if ONLY the first year is garaunteed.

But he would not sign any deal like that imo.

Guiness
03-13-2009, 12:26 PM
I think the 5yr, $20mil, but think it would be more like a 4yr $20mil (why bother) or 5yr/$25mil. I lean towards the longer deal because the Pack will want to lock him up for his prime years - as payment for getting his money early.

I agree with Bobblehead that only the first year should be guaranteed, so the team can cut him at any time with no cap hit if he underperforms.

Maybe something like $4mil up front, and a $1mil base, $4mil yrs 2 and 3, $5mil yr 4, $6mil yr 5. The upfront would be a roster bonus, not a signing bonus. Probably badly undervalued by the time he got to yr 4 and 5 though.

I'm sure he wouldn't be happy with this, but it gives him money in his pocket now, and decent salaries the rest of the way.

HOWEVER I also think the Pack may choose to make him play under the tender, and negotiate an extension during the season just to show they won't cave to these sorts of tactics. I honestly think it would be worth losing this guy to prove that point, because it could get ugly from here.

wist43
03-13-2009, 12:32 PM
Damn, thought I might be in the majority on this one, lol :))

But, alas, no... I went with 3 years, 6 mil.

Kid has improved every year, but he's still pretty shaky... don't want to let him walk, but don't want to make a big investment in him either.

Patler
03-13-2009, 01:08 PM
I think the 5yr, $20mil, but think it would be more like a 4yr $20mil (why bother) or 5yr/$25mil. I lean towards the longer deal because the Pack will want to lock him up for his prime years - as payment for getting his money early.

I agree with Bobblehead that only the first year should be guaranteed, so the team can cut him at any time with no cap hit if he underperforms.

Maybe something like $4mil up front, and a $1mil base, $4mil yrs 2 and 3, $5mil yr 4, $6mil yr 5. The upfront would be a roster bonus, not a signing bonus. Probably badly undervalued by the time he got to yr 4 and 5 though.

I'm sure he wouldn't be happy with this, but it gives him money in his pocket now, and decent salaries the rest of the way.

HOWEVER I also think the Pack may choose to make him play under the tender, and negotiate an extension during the season just to show they won't cave to these sorts of tactics. I honestly think it would be worth losing this guy to prove that point, because it could get ugly from here.

I suspect something like that, but shorter, probably buying out just one FA year, like with Grant. For Williams with 2 years in, that would mean a 3 year contract. Most of the Packer contracts now have minimal cap impact for cutting the player. That is the biggest advantage of using existing cap space for roster bonuses rather than signing bonuses. The decision to cut or keep comes down to (performance) vs (present cash cost), not (performance) vs (cap hit to release). It lets you keep the best players. It's the philosophy of Grant's contract and will be in Williams' contract too. Its even true for Rodgers, for the most part.

SnakeLH2006
03-13-2009, 11:17 PM
Damn snakey, you got punked/owned the fuck out of on this thread. :lol:

LMAO. True Dat, yet Snake knew Patler would be coming at me hard after mentioning Ryan Grant so I was hiding under a rock... :shock: :lol:

24 or 26 soon...He's young and talented. And..I really think he's gonna get paid one way or the other (maybe not by TT).

I'd rather pay him now in his 3rd year, then find out Al fell off or Wood did too, etc. and get a 5 year deal in to ease the transition. That's a ton better than this kid getting better while those guys decline (will happen this season by at least a little bit) and TWill wanting $8 million a year in a year or two as that FA CB market is going apeshit. Give him $4 million for a good size deal and deal with it. I don't see top-notch options other than drafting a guy for that money. We know TT is not gonna open it up for $10 million plus for a proven CB. So why not give the kid a solid 5 year deal for only $4 million a year? It's pretty easy to see. We'll see what happens though.












......And oh yeah,
Ryan Grant still sucks though.

--Little known Dwight Schrute FACT:

Snakes are vicious, but still scared of Patler (well not really, but he's damn potent with his logic, except when it comes to Ryan Grant). :cry: :lol: :roll: