Cutler gone?

[KYPack]

It could be meaningless, but Jay Cutler has placed his house in Denver for sale.

Sounds like a pretty sweet crib....

From Ch 7 in the Mile high.

Denver Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler has put his house near Castle Pines up for sale.

The custom-built, four-bedroom, seven-bath home went on the market Thursday and is listed for sale at $2 million, according to a real estate listing obtained by 7NEWS.

The 7,516-square-foot home is located in the Timbers subdivision and sits on 1.49 acres. Cutler bought the house in 2006 for $1.34 million.

According to the listing, the home contains a 13-tiered waterfall.

"This is your chance to own one of the finest homes in Timbers -- 1.5 acres of pristine beauty, unbelievable Beaver Creek-style vaulted wood-beamed ceilings, spectacular mountain views and open floor plan," Cutler's realtor said in the listing.

It might not mean much, but could mean trouble for Denver and their twin children GM & coach.

[Freak Out]

Seven bathrooms?

Detoilet trade?

[billy_oliver880]

Seven bathrooms?

Detoilet trade?

I was just thinking that....who needs that many bathrooms?

[Joemailman]

Even though he was initially miffed at the idea of being traded, I've felt for a while now that he probably wants to be traded. A trade to Detroit for the #20 pick makes sense.

[KYPack]

Wouldn't Cutler bring the big pick?

I wouldn't trade an established NFL starting QB for that.

Well, Bill B did, but doesn't Denver need a QB now?

I bet Shanny the Rat is laughin' his ass off right now.

[Joemailman]

Denver won't get the #1 pick for Cutler. Maybe Detroit will thow in some thing else, like the #3 they got from Dallas. Denver would be practically without a QB if they trade Cutler though. What a screwup in Denver.

[Partial]

I dunno, I think they'd rather have an established Cutler than an unestablished Stafford. I don't think Detroit wants that #1 pick. Would you? I'd much rather have a cheaper, established QB than taking such a financial risk on an unknown QB.

[MJZiggy]

Maybe Cutler just figured out he doesn't need that many bathrooms either.

[Packnut]

Denver won't get the #1 pick for Cutler. Maybe Detroit will thow in some thing else, like the #3 they got from Dallas. Denver would be practically without a QB if they trade Cutler though. What a screwup in Denver.

QB's with the talent Cutler has is rare. Denver really screwed the pooch on this one. :lol:

[Partial]

Maybe he needs more bathrooms. Looks to go with the 3:1 ratio of baths:beds

[BlueBrewer]

if he sells his house for 2mill he could buy every house for sale in Detroit right now with the proceeds. Thanks Unions :roll:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

He has a condo in denver. Could mean nothing at all. Thank you greedy owners and corporations.

[Fritz]

Thank you Tyrone.

[texaspackerbacker]

Ever since these trade rumors came up, I've wondered if maybe there is something that hasn't come out regarding his diabetes that they are worried about.

Am I wrong, or is that still considered a pretty serious condition?

[Lurker64]

I'm also willing to entertain the notion that the guy that the Broncos brought in to run the show is way, way over his head. I mean, he got hired largely because he was the Pats OC, and who was the last Belichick assistant that was a good hire for another team?

[Rastak]

I'm also willing to entertain the notion that the guy that the Broncos brought in to run the show is way, way over his head. I mean, he got hired largely because he was the Pats OC, and who was the last Belichick assistant that was a good hire for another team?


Very possible. The guys on NFL radio said he F'd it up and put himself in a no win situation. If Cutler skips the voluntary OTAs he going to undermine the dude big time. New offense and the QB skips it?

I have no idea why they alienated the dude, he's a pretty solid QB. I know the Vikes don't want to scrap 2 1st round picks in a row but if you can get a guy like that, screw the pick. I'd be in favor of them dishing out some high picks. He isn't exactly old you know.

[Partial]

Yeah, if I were the Vikes I would do the same. They'd have the two best players in the division. Possibly the best three.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Yeah, if I were the Vikes I would do the same. They'd have the two best players in the division. Possibly the best three.

Let me get this straight, Cutler has a losing record and hasn't made the playoffs--yet you think he's an elite player? Isn't that hypocritical after what you've been saying about Rodgers?

[Partial]

Yeah, if I were the Vikes I would do the same. They'd have the two best players in the division. Possibly the best three.

Let me get this straight, Cutler has a losing record and hasn't made the playoffs--yet you think he's an elite player? Isn't that hypocritical after what you've been saying about Rodgers?

Cutler has a better arm, has done quite well despite a HORRENDOUS team, and has shown me infinitely more than Rodgers.

[KYPack]

No.

[Partial]

No.

I posted something else in the thread but decided to remove it :D

I like Cutler a lot as a player. Think he is light years better than Rodgers at this point. He's shown more in less time in the league, and was thrown into the fray as a young player.

[KYPack]

No.

I posted something else in the thread but decided to remove it.

Well that's progress, I guess. I wasn't pissed, I knew ya got 14K posts somehow.

[/quote]I like Cutler a lot as a player. Think he is light years better than Rodgers at this point. He's shown more in less time in the league, and was thrown into the fray as a young player.[/quote]

I like Cutler mesself. Live arm and mentally tough.

Light years better than Rodgers?

Yer nuts, pal.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Cutler has a better arm, has done quite well despite a HORRENDOUS team, and has shown me infinitely more than Rodgers.

Stronger arm? Probably, but Rodgers has a damn good arm also. Rodgers is more accurate. He also appears to be much smarter than Cutler. Rodgers has a bit more mobility. I like Cutler's moxie and durability though. Pretty close, I think.

Cutler has done more because he has played more. Rodgers was sitting behind Brett Favre. Rodgers has been in the league one year more, but look at the numbers.

Cutler's 1st full year as a starter:
63.6%, 7.5 ypa, 20 TDs, 14 ints, 88.1 rating, 205 rushing yards, 1 TD

Cutler's 2nd full year as a starter (last year);
62.3%, 7.3 ypa, 25 TDs, 18 ints, 86.0 rating, 200 rushing yards, 2 TDs

Rodgers's 1st full year as a starter (last year):
63.6%, 7.5 ypa, 28 TDs, 13 ints, 93.8 rating, 207 rushing yards, 4 TDs

[Patler]

The custom-built, four-bedroom, seven-bath home went on the market Thursday and is listed for sale at $2 million, according to a real estate listing obtained by 7NEWS.
.... Cutler bought the house in 2006 for $1.34 million.


I wonder if the real estate market in Denver is that good that he can expect a 50% appreciation in 3 years, or if he did a major remodel/addition?

[Patler]

I like Cutler a lot as a player. Think he is light years better than Rodgers at this point. He's shown more in less time in the league, and was thrown into the fray as a young player.

I think all in all they are close to being the same player. Not exactly the same, but similar. I don't think either team would be better off having the other as its QB.

Unless Cutler has wanted to get out of Denver and is using the current situation to try and force that result, I think he is handling this quite poorly.

[SnakeLH2006]

No.

I posted something else in the thread but decided to remove it :D

I like Cutler a lot as a player. Think he is light years better than Rodgers at this point. He's shown more in less time in the league, and was thrown into the fray as a young player.

Yeah we get it. You got a man-crush for Cutler. That's cool, but pray tell why?

He's good, but brash and kinda a punk so far. +1 for Arod.

Neither one has made the playoffs. Moot point.

Slightly stronger arm, but less accurate than Arod. Moot point.

Arod is slightly more mobile. +1

Health. Cutler is physically OK, but has diabetes (a serious, but very treatable condition). Arod has been injured in past, but played a full 16 game season in 2008 and displayed manishness for sure. Moot point.

So Arod is +2 in Snake's book....and trying not be a homer.... but it should tell you something that Denver is willing to get rid of him for Journeyman Cassell. So what's the deal...how is this light years better than ARod?

How is Cutler so much better then? Or is Snake missing something? Please tell.... 8-) :lol:

...?? You hate TT? You think Brett is still the best option. Either way simple math makes that -2 for Partial for a grand total of +4 for Arod with that logic. Please spoil me and others for the grandiose reasons why Cutler is better than ARod other than the points I just made for you.

[cpk1994]

Yeah, if I were the Vikes I would do the same. They'd have the two best players in the division. Possibly the best three.

Let me get this straight, Cutler has a losing record and hasn't made the playoffs--yet you think he's an elite player? Isn't that hypocritical after what you've been saying about Rodgers?

Cutler has a better arm, has done quite well despite a HORRENDOUS team, and has shown me infinitely more than Rodgers.Translation: I like Cutler. I hate Rodgers, so any QB is better than Rofgers and I can change the argument to my advantage no matter how many times I fail.

[Partial]

How many times have I had to correct you? I don't hate Rodgers. Think he is average to slightly above average. #12. Cutler is top 10 imo.

[sheepshead]

Cutler's a tool and so are you.

[swede]

How many times have I had to correct you? I don't hate Rodgers. Think he is average to slightly above average. #12. Cutler is top 10 imo.

2008 Quarterback Rankings
RANK NAME COM ATT PCT YDS TD RATING
6 A. Rodgers 341 536 63.6 4038 28 93.8

16 Jay Cutler 384 616 62.3 4526 25 86.0

[Bossman641]

How many times have I had to correct you? I don't hate Rodgers. Think he is average to slightly above average. #12. Cutler is top 10 imo.

2008 Quarterback Rankings
RANK NAME COM ATT PCT YDS TD RATING
6 A. Rodgers 341 536 63.6 4038 28 93.8

16 Jay Cutler 384 616 62.3 4526 25 86.0

http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1647/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1647R-74446.jpg

La La La, Rodgers is average

[Guiness]

I dunno, I think they'd rather have an established Cutler than an unestablished Stafford. I don't think Detroit wants that #1 pick. Would you? I'd much rather have a cheaper, established QB than taking such a financial risk on an unknown QB.

I hadn't thought of it this way, but I actually like the idea! I'm one that is of the opinion that the #1 pick is an albatross, especially this year with not clear cut top dog.

I think they should offer Denver the #1 for Cutler and Denver's 1st or 2nd round pick. When Denver says we'll take the later pick (#20?) say no, you have to take the first pick overall!

[Rastak]

I dunno, I think they'd rather have an established Cutler than an unestablished Stafford. I don't think Detroit wants that #1 pick. Would you? I'd much rather have a cheaper, established QB than taking such a financial risk on an unknown QB.

I hadn't thought of it this way, but I actually like the idea! I'm one that is of the opinion that the #1 pick is an albatross, especially this year with not clear cut top dog.

I think they should offer Denver the #1 for Cutler and Denver's 1st or 2nd round pick. When Denver says we'll take the later pick (#20?) say no, you have to take the first pick overall!

Denver's obvious response would be "we don't have to take anything, you don't want him? Fine, we'll keep him."

[cpk1994]

How many times have I had to correct you? I don't hate Rodgers. Think he is average to slightly above average. #12. Cutler is top 10 imo.I know you hate Rodgers, you can cut the BS. Your arguments against Rodgers have been blown full of holes repeatedly, yet you continue your tired act and change to a new argument until that one blows up in your face. Its either that or you are an ignorant tool.

[cpk1994]

How many times have I had to correct you? I don't hate Rodgers. Think he is average to slightly above average. #12. Cutler is top 10 imo.

2008 Quarterback Rankings
RANK NAME COM ATT PCT YDS TD RATING
6 A. Rodgers 341 536 63.6 4038 28 93.8

16 Jay Cutler 384 616 62.3 4526 25 86.0Partial owned again. :lol:

[Packerarcher]

Denver won't get the #1 pick for Cutler. Maybe Detroit will thow in some thing else, like the #3 they got from Dallas. Denver would be practically without a QB if they trade Cutler though. What a screwup in Denver.

QB's with the talent Cutler has is rare. Denver really screwed the pooch on this one. :lol:

What talent,Cutler is one of the most OVER RATED QB's ever.

[sheepshead]

How many times have I had to correct you? I don't hate Rodgers. Think he is average to slightly above average. #12. Cutler is top 10 imo.

Hey Asshole, since every stat proves you wrong, then it's a personal thing. What's the matter, did he dis you for an autograph or something? Calling him average when you have no stats to back that up and clearly in his line of work, the numbers mean everything, then you at the very least "dislike" him. So tell us why you have this personal vendetta against our quarterback ..if not--SHUT THE FUCK UP!

[Lurker64]

I'm mostly just curious about Partial's mancrush for Cutler. I don't think he's really shown any more than Rodgers has. Both are young guys with a lot of promise, but a lot left to prove.

[Rastak]

I'm mostly just curious about Partial's mancrush for Cutler. I don't think he's really shown any more than Rodgers has. Both are young guys with a lot of promise, but a lot left to prove.


Indeed.......what Lurker said.

[cpk1994]

How many times have I had to correct you? I don't hate Rodgers. Think he is average to slightly above average. #12. Cutler is top 10 imo.

Hey Asshole, since every stat proves you wrong, then it's a personal thing. What's the matter, did he dis you for an autograph or something? Calling him average when you have no stats to back that up and clearly in his line of work, the numbers mean everything, then you at the very least "dislike" him. So tell us why you have this personal vendetta against our quarterback ..if not--SHUT THE FUCK UP!Well said. Also, I agree with Packeracrcher's statment above the one I quoted. Cutler is indeed overrated.

[texaspackerbacker]

The stats posted by Harvey and Swede say it all regarding the Rodgers/Cutler comparison--Rodgers hands down. Just the same, I agree with Partial, he would make the Vikings one helluva good team. I really hope they don't get him.

Denver will probably find somebody to trade with--probably Detroit. IMO, though, almost any team giving up what they will likely give up to get Cutler is stupid and will regret the deal--which makes Detroit sound all the more likely to do it. The Vikings are so close to be a top flight team that they probably are the exception.

I hope Detroit gets him, as it will be a net setback for them.

[KYPack]

More plot thickening in Denver...

Cutler's parents are selling their house.

A day after Denver Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler put his house on the market, his parents have done the same.

Cutler's parents live about two miles from the home he put up for sale on Friday, in the town of Elizabeth. Cutler's home is in Parker.

Their home is listed at 4,144 square feet with four bedrooms, three baths and a three car garage. It has a price tag of $835,000.

Cutler's Parker home is three years old, has four bedrooms and six bathrooms. It is 5,149 square feet and has two fireplaces. It also has a three-car garage.

Offseason workouts for the Broncos are scheduled for next week at Dove Valley, but there is speculation Cutler may not show up.

Evidently, Cutler is moving to Wisconsin, next door to some fellow named "Partial".

[Rastak]

More plot thickening in Denver...

Cutler's parents are selling their house.

A day after Denver Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler put his house on the market, his parents have done the same.

Cutler's parents live about two miles from the home he put up for sale on Friday, in the town of Elizabeth. Cutler's home is in Parker.

Their home is listed at 4,144 square feet with four bedrooms, three baths and a three car garage. It has a price tag of $835,000.

Cutler's Parker home is three years old, has four bedrooms and six bathrooms. It is 5,149 square feet and has two fireplaces. It also has a three-car garage.

Offseason workouts for the Broncos are scheduled for next week at Dove Valley, but there is speculation Cutler may not show up.

Evidently, Cutler is moving to Wisconsin, next door to some fellow named "Partial".


He figures that's a great spot to stay while waiting for his agent, the Broncos and the Vikings to work out a deal at a discount price to send him to Minnesota.


{at that point I woke up when my wife yelled at me to feed the dogs}

[Fritz]

Ah, but Ras, Wisconsin's between Minnesota AND Michigan...he could be waiting to see who ponies up more to Denver for his services.

So here's my question: how far, exactly, would you be willing for the Vikes to go to gain Cutler's services? Their first rounder? A first and a fourth? a first plus Sage Rosenfels? A first plus Rastak has to report to Pat Bowlen along with the Denver GM and head coach and the water boy?

What say, Ras? What would you be willing to see the Vikes pony up?

[Patler]

Cutler for Peterson sounds about right!

[Fritz]

I would much rather see the Pack face a Cutler-led Vikings team than a Peterson-led team!

[KYPack]

Ras...

If the Queens land Cutler, I'm gonna be totally pissed at you.


& I don't really know why.

[Fritz]

Would you be pissed at Ras if the Vikings gave up Peterson to get Cutler?

[Rastak]

Would you be pissed at Ras if the Vikings gave up Peterson to get Cutler?


Okay, I'll answer both of your questions from this thread.

1) I would not trade Peterson for Cutler, although Cutler has a longer shelf life.

2) What would I give up? A 1st rounder and a 2nd rounder and a player not deemed an essential starter.

That would leave the Vikes with Cook at RT. Sign Pace.

Need depth at WR? Sign Holt.

These guys are at the end of their careers but could provide a boost for a 2 year window. NEXT year draft an OL, DT, WR and CB.

[SnakeLH2006]

More plot thickening in Denver...

Cutler's parents are selling their house.

A day after Denver Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler put his house on the market, his parents have done the same.

Cutler's parents live about two miles from the home he put up for sale on Friday, in the town of Elizabeth. Cutler's home is in Parker.

Their home is listed at 4,144 square feet with four bedrooms, three baths and a three car garage. It has a price tag of $835,000.

Cutler's Parker home is three years old, has four bedrooms and six bathrooms. It is 5,149 square feet and has two fireplaces. It also has a three-car garage.

Offseason workouts for the Broncos are scheduled for next week at Dove Valley, but there is speculation Cutler may not show up.

Evidently, Cutler is moving to Wisconsin, next door to some fellow named "Partial".

Snake sees about 3 hilarious posts a week where he coughs beer out his nose laughing nonstop. This was one of them. :lol:

[Guiness]

I hadn't thought of it this way, but I actually like the idea! I'm one that is of the opinion that the #1 pick is an albatross, especially this year with not clear cut top dog.

I think they should offer Denver the #1 for Cutler and Denver's 1st or 2nd round pick. When Denver says we'll take the later pick (#20?) say no, you have to take the first pick overall!

Denver's obvious response would be "we don't have to take anything, you don't want him? Fine, we'll keep him."

Obviously (I thought?) that was tongue in cheek - that they'd force Denver to take 'more' for Cutler.

As far as the 'fine, we'll keep him' bit, that may not be an option for Denver at this point. Although since the initial stuff we've seen, the newsroom's been slow, so this may be another case of the reporters looking for something to report on.

[mission]

Would you be pissed at Ras if the Vikings gave up Peterson to get Cutler?

Not at all!!!!

The Queens would just become 08 Denver. There wouldn't be much of a difference and you could expect them to sit around 9-7 or 10-6. You gotta win games anyway so if you can't beat that, FK ya...

As much as I hate the Vikings (I REALLY do), AP is easily the scariest dude in the NFL right now. He's the ONLY reason why I could ever enjoy watching a Queens game. The guy is awesome, and I HATE him -- against the Packers. :lol:

[Fritz]

Would you be pissed at Ras if the Vikings gave up Peterson to get Cutler?


Okay, I'll answer both of your questions from this thread.

1) I would not trade Peterson for Cutler, although Cutler has a longer shelf life.

2) What would I give up? A 1st rounder and a 2nd rounder and a player not deemed an essential starter.

That would leave the Vikes with Cook at RT. Sign Pace.

Need depth at WR? Sign Holt.

These guys are at the end of their careers but could provide a boost for a 2 year window. NEXT year draft an OL, DT, WR and CB.

This is one of thosse interesting, essential philosophical disagreements folks on this board have from time to time. I would be aghast if the Packers tried this approach (which people have advocated from time to time, especially during Favre's last years). To me, this shoot-the-wad approach is akin to rolling all your debts into a refinance of your house - it ay look good now, but look out Lucy down the road.

Yet I can also see the appeal - I don't think that you, Ras, or anyone who advocates this approach - that all the pieces are nearly there, so why not? - is foolish or anything. I definitely see the appeal. It's just that in my experience as a fan, the times I've seen this approach tried, it just doesn't seem to work.

It's all cool. It's all fun. In fact, I'd kinda be happy if the Vikes did what you advocate. I see long-term disaster for the team, myself, if this were to happen.

This year, well, who knows? Cutler-Peterson sounds good on paper, but who knows if it would work?

I do agree that Adrain Peterson is one scary dude. With him, the Vikes are always a threat, as long as they've got a modicum of defense. He's a fantastic running back.

[Joemailman]

Looks like Broncos are ready to release Cutler:

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/03/15/12197/

[digitaldean]

Maybe this has been mentioned already, but doesn't it look obvious that the agent may be playing the Broncos for more money, if not a trade?

And of course that agent is none other than Bus Cook, Favre's agent. He sure is getting enough publicity, I'll grant him that much.

I'd say, "play with your contract". He is getting paid slightly above min. wage, even for a drama queen.

Bowlen is even sounding like Cutler may be gone. According to Denver Post, McDaniels and Cutler exchanged words and Cutler ended up leaving vowing not coming to camp.

The teams most bandied about are the Bears, Lions, Vikes, Titans and Browns. Keep him in the AFC please! He's not a world beater, but is a step up from any of the QB's the other 3 NFC North teams have.

[KYPack]

Cutler is from Lincoln City Indiana. He was a big thing down there and lots of people were surprised he went to Vandy. Cutler is a Vandy weasel. He was a definite dirty Southern frat boy in college.

He's sold all his cribs. There are a lot of tom toms beating in Southern Indiana and that neck of the woods that Cutler is headed to Nashville. He still has a house or something there and wants out of Denver in general. The altitude plays hell with his diabetes. Nashville has great medical facilities and is sea level, ya know.

This is from people I know from WKY and is probably all bullshit. The other big rumor is that he was a huge Bear fan growing up and wants to play in Chicago if he can.

That part of the world is Bear, Ram, and Titan country, so rumors having him go to those teams are to be expected.

Like I say this has about a 1% chance of being true. This is the first time in 25 years those Hillbillies out there have ever given me any Pro Football gossip, so I'm happy to get it.

[digitaldean]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3983805

Cutler says he can't trust McDaniels and now wants to be traded.

This thing is just getting weirder by the minute....

[Lurker64]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3983805

Cutler says he can't trust McDaniels and now wants to be traded.

This thing is just getting weirder by the minute....

If I was Pat Bowlen, I would consider firing McDaniels over this. The one position that Denver appeared to have settled when he was hired was at the QB, and the man managed to screw that up with some really questionable decisionmaking.

[Partial]

This guy is going to Minne or Detroit. I would bet my bottom dollar on it.

[sheepshead]

This guy is going to Minne or Detroit. I would bet my bottom dollar on it.

Good, hopefully you'll go with him.

[hoosier]

Looks like Broncos are ready to release Cutler:

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/03/15/12197/

It's going to take me a while to recover from seeing that. You might want to include a warning: "not suitable for viewing over breakfast" or something like that. :lol:

[Joemailman]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3983805

Cutler says he can't trust McDaniels and now wants to be traded.

This thing is just getting weirder by the minute....

If I was Pat Bowlen, I would consider firing McDaniels over this. The one position that Denver appeared to have settled when he was hired was at the QB, and the man managed to screw that up with some really questionable decisionmaking.

Sounds like Bowlen is supporting McDaniels. He is reported to be unhappy with how Cutler has handled it.

[Cheesehead Craig]

The Broncos won't need to get a QB in trade for Cutler, they can just bring Bubby Brister out of retirement.

[BlueBrewer]

The Broncos won't need to get a QB in trade for Cutler, they can just bring Bubby Brister out of retirement.


They crybaby Kramer to fill those size 8 shoes. :cry:

[Guiness]

This is one of thosse interesting, essential philosophical disagreements folks on this board have from time to time. I would be aghast if the Packers tried this approach (which people have advocated from time to time, especially during Favre's last years). To me, this shoot-the-wad approach is akin to rolling all your debts into a refinance of your house - it ay look good now, but look out Lucy down the road.

Yet I can also see the appeal - I don't think that you, Ras, or anyone who advocates this approach - that all the pieces are nearly there, so why not? - is foolish or anything. I definitely see the appeal. It's just that in my experience as a fan, the times I've seen this approach tried, it just doesn't seem to work.


Except this scenario is a little different - they're not shooting the wad on some old vets hoping they've got a few years left in the tank - they'd be getting a young QB who's already good, and probably still developing. They'd arguably be spending the draft picks they could likely use trying to get a QB of that caliber anyways.

If TT traded Rodgers for those picks, would you be laughing, or screaming for TT's head? :?:

[cpk1994]

This is one of thosse interesting, essential philosophical disagreements folks on this board have from time to time. I would be aghast if the Packers tried this approach (which people have advocated from time to time, especially during Favre's last years). To me, this shoot-the-wad approach is akin to rolling all your debts into a refinance of your house - it ay look good now, but look out Lucy down the road.

Yet I can also see the appeal - I don't think that you, Ras, or anyone who advocates this approach - that all the pieces are nearly there, so why not? - is foolish or anything. I definitely see the appeal. It's just that in my experience as a fan, the times I've seen this approach tried, it just doesn't seem to work.


Except this scenario is a little different - they're not shooting the wad on some old vets hoping they've got a few years left in the tank - they'd be getting a young QB who's already good, and probably still developing. They'd arguably be spending the draft picks they could likely use trying to get a QB of that caliber anyways.

If TT traded Rodgers for those picks, would you be laughing, or screaming for TT's head? :?:If Thomspon doesn't have a dog to shoot, I'd be trying to take his head off.

[Waldo]

It's real easy to make Cutler feel wanted again in Denver.

$$

Cutler is simply holding out and making a big stink to get traded, saying he doesn't feel wanted, simply because to feel wanted he's going to need to see a lot of green to reassure him.

Cook is using the rumored trade to cash in to the tune of 70-80M in new contract $ for his client, and the inexperienced Denver FO and coach is falling right into his bear trap. What kind of dick of a player wants to completely desert his teammates and go elsewhere over the fact that he wasn't the coaches first choice. Great locker room guy.

Bus is a snake. The worst kind. At least Drew is a blunt object dick. Bus is sly and evil and uses the mob (fans) to his client's advantage. This is just a big ass power play a la Favre. Cutler thinks he has more political capitol with the fans than the coach and GM have, and is cashing it in.

[retailguy]

It's real easy to make Cutler feel wanted again in Denver.

$$

Cutler is simply holding out and making a big stink to get traded, saying he doesn't feel wanted, simply because to feel wanted he's going to need to see a lot of green to reassure him.

Cook is using the rumored trade to cash in to the tune of 70-80M in new contract $ for his client, and the inexperienced Denver FO and coach is falling right into his bear trap. What kind of dick of a player wants to completely desert his teammates and go elsewhere over the fact that he wasn't the coaches first choice. Great locker room guy.

Bus is a snake. The worst kind. At least Drew is a blunt object dick. Bus is sly and evil and uses the mob (fans) to his client's advantage. This is just a big ass power play a la Favre. Cutler thinks he has more political capitol with the fans than the coach and GM have, and is cashing it in.

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner. This has been my take since the beginning. The only thing that has given me pause to think was the rumor put out there by Peter King that Cutler requested the trade over his former coach bolting for USC. Otherwise, Waldo I think you nailed it.

[Zool]

It's real easy to make Cutler feel wanted again in Denver.

$$

Cutler is simply holding out and making a big stink to get traded, saying he doesn't feel wanted, simply because to feel wanted he's going to need to see a lot of green to reassure him.

Cook is using the rumored trade to cash in to the tune of 70-80M in new contract $ for his client, and the inexperienced Denver FO and coach is falling right into his bear trap. What kind of dick of a player wants to completely desert his teammates and go elsewhere over the fact that he wasn't the coaches first choice. Great locker room guy.

Bus is a snake. The worst kind. At least Drew is a blunt object dick. Bus is sly and evil and uses the mob (fans) to his client's advantage. This is just a big ass power play a la Favre. Cutler thinks he has more political capitol with the fans than the coach and GM have, and is cashing it in.

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner. This has been my take since the beginning. The only thing that has given me pause to think was the rumor put out there by Peter King that Cutler requested the trade over his former coach bolting for USC. Otherwise, Waldo I think you nailed it.

Heh, so Cutler talks exclusively to Peter King too? Maybe Bus and King are the same person.

[Fritz]

This is one of thosse interesting, essential philosophical disagreements folks on this board have from time to time. I would be aghast if the Packers tried this approach (which people have advocated from time to time, especially during Favre's last years). To me, this shoot-the-wad approach is akin to rolling all your debts into a refinance of your house - it ay look good now, but look out Lucy down the road.

Yet I can also see the appeal - I don't think that you, Ras, or anyone who advocates this approach - that all the pieces are nearly there, so why not? - is foolish or anything. I definitely see the appeal. It's just that in my experience as a fan, the times I've seen this approach tried, it just doesn't seem to work.


Except this scenario is a little different - they're not shooting the wad on some old vets hoping they've got a few years left in the tank - they'd be getting a young QB who's already good, and probably still developing. They'd arguably be spending the draft picks they could likely use trying to get a QB of that caliber anyways.

If TT traded Rodgers for those picks, would you be laughing, or screaming for TT's head? :?:

I see your point but don't entirely agree. If I recall, Ras said he might be willing to part with a #1 and #2 to get Cutler. Yes, Cutler is young, but it only takes one pick to get a QB. So in essence the Vikes, who might let's say otherwise have shot their #2 pick on Josh Freeman, are giving up a #1. Or If they picked a QB with their #1 they'd be giving up a #2 (pick).

Either way, this deal would cost them a draft pick that cannot be used on a replacement for Pat Williams or Sharper or anyone else. To me, when you already gave up, the year before, a #1 and, what, a #2 or 3 (?) for one player, and you do the same the next year, you are losing valuable picks. You may be acquiring front line talent - but at the expense of depth (and not just depth - potential starters with front line talent).

The trade off is that Cutler has a track record, of course. That's why he'll cost more than one pick, most likely, unless he can force his way out. So I see your point, Guiness. I just think that in the long run the Vikes will be hurting themselves, particularly if Cutler is half the ass he appears to be in this situation. If.

[Guiness]

Except this scenario is a little different - they're not shooting the wad on some old vets hoping they've got a few years left in the tank - they'd be getting a young QB who's already good, and probably still developing. They'd arguably be spending the draft picks they could likely use trying to get a QB of that caliber anyways.

If TT traded Rodgers for those picks, would you be laughing, or screaming for TT's head? :?:

I see your point but don't entirely agree. If I recall, Ras said he might be willing to part with a #1 and #2 to get Cutler. Yes, Cutler is young, but it only takes one pick to get a QB. So in essence the Vikes, who might let's say otherwise have shot their #2 pick on Josh Freeman, are giving up a #1. Or If they picked a QB with their #1 they'd be giving up a #2 (pick).

Either way, this deal would cost them a draft pick that cannot be used on a replacement for Pat Williams or Sharper or anyone else. To me, when you already gave up, the year before, a #1 and, what, a #2 or 3 (?) for one player, and you do the same the next year, you are losing valuable picks. You may be acquiring front line talent - but at the expense of depth (and not just depth - potential starters with front line talent).

The trade off is that Cutler has a track record, of course. That's why he'll cost more than one pick, most likely, unless he can force his way out. So I see your point, Guiness. I just think that in the long run the Vikes will be hurting themselves, particularly if Cutler is half the ass he appears to be in this situation. If.

I agree with what you're saying, while still standing by my point. Taken individually, these trades make sense - 2 picks for a starting Pro Bowl DE? Ya, I'm going that. Two picks for a Pro Bowl QB? Sign me up. I think spending multiple picks for a sure fire starter makes a lot of sense - do 50% of draft picks end up starting more than a dozen games? I bet the number's close. Minnesota's drafted a QB the last three years running...and is obviously still looking. Or Washington - 3 QB's drafted in 4 years. Their answer isn't on the roster, as far as I can tell.

What I agree with you is that spending draft picks for trades hurts you, because it harms your depth and makes your team older. When you take into account nickel back, FB, kicker, punter, there are about 25 starting positions on a football team. Spend too many picks on filling a few of them, and you've got street FA's in the rest.

[mngolf19]

In the end, Det has the most to offer in a trade but they may have already decided to go the Stafford route. If that is the case, then MN could get him for #1 and a player. I'm ok with that as long as they use the rest of the picks on OL, WR, and DL.

[hoosier]

One problem with these Cutler trade scenarios is that Denver is not in full rebuilding mode, at least not that they're willing to admit. If they trade Cutler, they're going to need a viable starting QB in return--something that neither Det nor Minn has to offer them. I really can't see Den trading Cutler just to they can draft Stafford and start all over again with grooming their QB of the future.

[red]

i would have no problem putting the whole blame on the broncos for this mess...

if bus cook wasn't involved

there's way too many similar things to what went down with brett going on last year

[Zool]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/cutlerjacko.JPG

[Fritz]

The more I read about Cutler, the less I'd want him on my team. As a friend of mine pointed out, a 26 year old Brett Favre did not and probably would not have pulled this kind of scheiss.

I also have questions about his accuracy but have not seen him play enough to know for real.

[packers11]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9345936/Cutler%27s-agent-Cooks-up-another-drama

Cutler's agent Cooks up another drama


here are a number of issues to consider in this Jay Cutler "I want to be traded" drama. First, Broncos head coach Josh McDaniels isn't Bill Belichick. He's only 32 and he's new to being the boss. He's also not used to being around a pouty, immature quarterback.

Then, there is Cutler's agent, Bus Cook. Fans became familiar with Cook last summer because he is Brett Favre's agent. And we all know how that once great Favre-Green Bay marriage turned out. It went up in flames and now Favre is retired and looking for TV work.

Cook has forever claimed that he couldn't reason with Favre and protect him from himself. That's why Favre landed with the Jets and not with Jon Gruden and the Bucs. I always thought a wise, old agent like Cook would have pulled those strings a little better than he did.

But give Cook credit. He's been pulling the strings nicely for Cutler. Everyone should know that Cutler has wanted out of Denver ever since Mike Shanahan was fired and quarterback coach Jeremy Bates left for USC shortly afterward.

Before McDaniels and the Broncos pursued a failed trade for Matt Cassel, Cook had already been begging to get his client out. Denver told him no from the beginning. But somehow Cook has been able — how hilarious is this? — to paint Cutler as some victim in the cruel world of NFL trade talk. At the moment, the Broncos seem to be losing the PR war.

Cutler is from Santa Claus, Indiana. So, he wouldn't mind playing in the Midwest, but probably not Detroit. He wouldn't mind Tampa, either, considering the Bucs were very serious about possibly acquiring him in the botched three-way trade with New England.

A wise man once told me it's not about more money, but dollars always seem to be an issue. Cassel, who has played one NFL season since high school, is on the financial ledger for $14.6 million this season. Cutler, a first-round bonus baby, has a $2.3 million salary for 2009. The only way Cook is going to receive a better commission (and a higher salary for his 25-year-old quarterback) is by forcing Denver to trade Cutler, who is entering the fourth year of a six-year contract.

I don't know what to make of Cutler. He turned me off last season when he said his arm was better than John Elway's. He talks about McDaniels not being smart enough to simply pull him aside and talk to him one-on-one and sing sweet accolades into his ear.

One NFL general manager emailed me, saying Cutler's immaturity has plagued him throughout his Broncos' tenure. Consequently, prospective suitors are forewarned that Cutler may look great on Sunday, zipping passes on the field, but that he has poor practice habits, has never been a lover of watching film or isn't a leader like Tom Brady. Oh, and his won-lost record is 17-20.

It is going to be hard for McDaniels to turn this situation around. But there is no question that he needs to be able to talk with Cutler alone. Cutler needs to make his own decisions without Cook in the room. In Green Bay, the Packers never felt that Cook helped matters when dealing with Favre. The same situation has mushroomed in Denver, where McDaniels feels he might get somewhere with Cutler if he's minus Cook. The agent is complicating matters.

By now, knowing what he knows about Cutler, the young head coach is torn about what course to pursue. But it is never good to be trading a star player while in a weakened position. Teams never seem to receive the proper compensation — like two first-round picks — when a petulant player is making demands and failing to show for work. Yes, this week's minicamp is optional, but you would think that a young quarterback would want to find out how McDaniels is as a coach before turning his back on him.

The league's owner meetings begin Sunday in Dana Point, Ca. and Denver's Pat Bowlen and McDaniels will be able to talk directly to any potential bidders for Cutler. Tampa Bay, Detroit and Minnesota make the most sense because all three teams need a starting quarterback. Yes, the Vikings just signed Sage Rosenfels to compete with Tarvaris Jackson, but no one really views him as a long-term solution.

The dilemma for Denver is what quarterback do they pursue or accept as compensation? The cupboard is pretty bare, and that's why Cleveland is mentioned (Brady Quinn and Derek Anderson) and Arizona (Matt Leinart). The Jets may join the pursuit, too. The Bears, who were Cutler's favorite team while growing up in Indiana, make a lot of sense, but they seem to be pinching pennies again. Also, I don't see Kyle Orton as Denver's next quarterback. Right now, forgotten Chris Simms is running with the first team in Denver.

It would be ridiculous for Denver to trade Cutler to Detroit for the first overall pick, and thus be forced to pay either Georgia's Matt Stafford or USC's Mark Sanchez about $33 million in guaranteed money if they deem either one of those prospects as a decent replacement. Both Tampa and Detroit have mid-first round picks, but it's unlikely either of those quarterbacks would be available at No. 19 or No. 20, respectively.

The bottom line is that the Broncos would be better off keeping Cutler and finding a way to make it work. But we all know that isn't going to happen.

[packers11]

The national media is starting to realize how Bus Cook manipulates his clients...

[Freak Out]

I like it....I just hope he stays in the AFC and doesn't help an NFC rival. I hope the Bronco fans suffer for a long time. Fuck Bowlen.

[KYPack]

I like it....I just hope he stays in the AFC and doesn't help an NFC rival. I hope the Bronco fans suffer for a long time. Fuck Bowlen.

I, too, have long standing Bronco hate. My brother lives out these and I've caught a lot of it from him. Those Pony fans can make Bills fans look sweet and innocent. Then came SB 32 and I have terminal Bronco angst.

It's funny with Cutler. You get to thinking that the Broncos were poised on the edge, but Plummer held 'em back. Then they got Cutler and they were all ready to take off, right?

Plummer was 40-17 as Bronco QB. They went to 3 play-offs and were in the AFC Championship game. Cutler? 17-20 with no play-off appearances. Jake the Snake had big flaws and made some stupid plays, but the record indicates he was a better solution than the Vandy Frat Boy.

[Zool]

The more articles I read about this, the more it really seems like Cook is trying to get more money out of Denver. He has 3 years left on his rookie contract and he's no where near the top of the list of starting QB pay.

If you didn't want a 6 year deal, you shouldn't have signed a 6 year deal.

[SnakeLH2006]

I like it....I just hope he stays in the AFC and doesn't help an NFC rival. I hope the Bronco fans suffer for a long time. Fuck Bowlen.

I, too, have long standing Bronco hate. My brother lives out these and I've caught a lot of it from him. Those Pony fans can make Bills fans look sweet and innocent. Then came SB 32 and I have terminal Bronco angst.

It's funny with Cutler. You get to thinking that the Broncos were poised on the edge, but Plummer held 'em back. Then they got Cutler and they were all ready to take off, right?

Plummer was 40-17 as Bronco QB. They went to 3 play-offs and were in the AFC Championship game. Cutler? 17-20 with no play-off appearances. Jake the Snake had big flaws and made some stupid plays, but the record indicates he was a better solution than the Vandy Frat Boy.

Wow..Great stats KY! Plus, makes you wonder just how much of an ass-clown Bus Cook really is...Winning solves everything, unless Bus Cook is your agent...then it's just asinine BS propaganda when it comes to QB's.

Yo Partial, fess up bro...You aren't really Bus Cook are you? :shock:

[Fritz]

No headlines with Cutler today....I'm suffering withdrawal symptoms.

[sheepshead]

I have said repeatedly. Even though it wasnt fashionable, that Bus Cook was the problem in the Favre saga. When you hire a lawyer, the first damn thing they tell you is keep your mouth shut. Cook should never have let Favre get in the position he did. He needed to coach Favre on every public statement and anticipate every one of TT possible responses. Cook is tool, he making much more money than we would ever pay a lawyer, but is not doing his job, or worse doing it at the detriment of his client. Looks to me like Favre and Cutler are dumb enough to follow along. Reminds me of Elvis and Colonel Parker.

[Fritz]

I have said repeatedly. Even though it wasnt fashionable, that Bus Cook was the problem in the Favre saga. When you hire a lawyer, the first damn thing they tell you is keep your mouth shut. Cook should never have let Favre get in the position he did. He needed to coach Favre on every public statement and anticipate every one of TT possible responses. Cook is tool, he making much more money than we would ever pay a lawyer, but is not doing his job, or worse doing it at the detriment of his client. Looks to me like Favre and Cutler are dumb enough to follow along. Reminds me of Elvis and Colonel Parker.

But he's a wealthy tool.

[cpk1994]

I have said repeatedly. Even though it wasnt fashionable, that Bus Cook was the problem in the Favre saga. When you hire a lawyer, the first damn thing they tell you is keep your mouth shut. Cook should never have let Favre get in the position he did. He needed to coach Favre on every public statement and anticipate every one of TT possible responses. Cook is tool, he making much more money than we would ever pay a lawyer, but is not doing his job, or worse doing it at the detriment of his client. Looks to me like Favre and Cutler are dumb enough to follow along. Reminds me of Elvis and Colonel Parker.I don't buy that Cook was manipulating Favre. Favre knew full well what he was doing.

[KYPack]

I like it....I just hope he stays in the AFC and doesn't help an NFC rival. I hope the Bronco fans suffer for a long time. Fuck Bowlen.


Plummer was 40-17 as Bronco QB. They went to 3 play-offs and were in the AFC Championship game. Cutler? 17-20 with no play-off appearances. Jake the Snake had big flaws and made some stupid plays, but the record indicates he was a better solution than the Vandy Frat Boy.

Wow..Great stats KY! Plus, makes you wonder just how much of an ass-clown Bus Cook really is...Winning solves everything, unless Bus Cook is your agent...then it's just asinine BS propaganda when it comes to QB's.

Yo Partial, fess up bro...You aren't really Bus Cook are you? :shock:

Ya know, except for Ed Hochuli, Cutler was 16 - 21 with the Broncs. I wonder how this deal will pan out. They can't keep Cutler around after all this, but who in the hell will they get to run that team?

[Partial]

Can't really compare the stacked teams Plummer had to the powder puff that Cutler has had.

[Lurker64]

Can't really compare the stacked teams Plummer had to the powder puff that Cutler has had.

Except that, at least in 2006 Denver handed over the team Plummer had guided to 7-4 through 11 games over to Cutler who went 2-3 down the stretch.

I seriously think that Shanahan cost Denver a playoff spot by benching Plummer.

Then in 2007, Cutler lead the Broncos to their worst season since 1999 which was different from the 2006 squad that started 7-4 in the following ways:
Lost: Darrent Williams, Damien Nash, Tatum Bell, George Foster, Al Wilson, Tim Duckworth.

Added: Dre Bly, Travis Henry, Thump Belton, Daniel Graham, Brandon Stokley, Todd Sauerbrun, Brandon Pace, Mark Fenton.

Drafted: Jarvis Moss, Tim Crowder, Ryan Harris, Marcus Thomas.

[Partial]

Caps..




Except that, at least in 2006 Denver handed over the team Plummer had guided to 7-4 through 11 games over to Cutler who went 2-3 down the stretch.

AS A ROOKIE? IS THAT REALLY FAIR TO BLAME HIM AS A ROOKIE? C'MON

I seriously think that Shanahan cost Denver a playoff spot by benching Plummer.

AGREED

Then in 2007, Cutler lead the Broncos to their worst season since 1999 which was different from the 2006 squad that started 7-4 in the following ways:
Lost: Darrent Williams, Damien Nash, Tatum Bell, George Foster, Al Wilson, Tim Duckworth.

Added: Dre Bly, Travis Henry, Thump Belton, Daniel Graham, Brandon Stokley, Todd Sauerbrun, Brandon Pace, Mark Fenton.

Drafted: Jarvis Moss, Tim Crowder, Ryan Harris, Marcus Thomas.

WHAT ABOUT INJURIES? WHAT ABOUT EMOTIONAL TRAUMA AFTER DARRENT WILLIAMS DEATH? C'MON.

DENVER SUCKS. THEY DON'T HAVE A D AT ALL. CUTLER IS THE BEST PLAYER ON THAT TEAM IMO.

[sheepshead]

Caps..




Except that, at least in 2006 Denver handed over the team Plummer had guided to 7-4 through 11 games over to Cutler who went 2-3 down the stretch.

AS A ROOKIE? IS THAT REALLY FAIR TO BLAME HIM AS A ROOKIE? C'MON

I seriously think that Shanahan cost Denver a playoff spot by benching Plummer.

AGREED

Then in 2007, Cutler lead the Broncos to their worst season since 1999 which was different from the 2006 squad that started 7-4 in the following ways:
Lost: Darrent Williams, Damien Nash, Tatum Bell, George Foster, Al Wilson, Tim Duckworth.

Added: Dre Bly, Travis Henry, Thump Belton, Daniel Graham, Brandon Stokley, Todd Sauerbrun, Brandon Pace, Mark Fenton.

Drafted: Jarvis Moss, Tim Crowder, Ryan Harris, Marcus Thomas.

WHAT ABOUT INJURIES? WHAT ABOUT EMOTIONAL TRAUMA AFTER DARRENT WILLIAMS DEATH? C'MON.

DENVER SUCKS. THEY DON'T HAVE A D AT ALL. CUTLER IS THE BEST PLAYER ON THAT TEAM IMO.

In history. Come on, move over Montana, Unitas, Favre and Elway.

[Partial]

What?

[KYPack]

For some reason, the Jay Cutler mess really intrigues me. A report seeped out of Fox in Denver and then was retracted. This all mey be bullshit, but some of it has a ring of truth to it...

Quote on

The report states that there were concerns about Cutler’s consumption of alcohol, and “that he’s not that sharp.”

“That scared the crap out of McDaniels,” the source said.

The source expanded their perspective of McDaniels’ concerns of Cutler learning and working in the Broncos’ new offensive scheme.

“This is a very complex situation. You have to be so smart to play his [McDaniels’] offense. [Tom] Brady and [Matt] Cassel are exceedingly smart quarterbacks. They are not the best athletes in the world but they both make really intelligent decisions. Cutler has a canon for an arm, but he doesn’t manage the game like those guys in critical situations. Brady and Cassel are workaholics. They have the stature, and they have the ability,” said the source.

Well everyone can argue about who they feel is the better quarterback between Cutler and Cassel now.

But at the end of the day, when it comes to the root of all of this drama in Denver, the source told FOX31 to point at New England and Kansas City.

“[Bill] Belichick had first round offers and then some for Cassel. Believe me, a lot of people knew that was on the table. But look at what Matt ended up going to Kansas City for nothing. (Matt Cassel and linebacker Mike Vrabel went to the Chiefs in exchange for a 2009 second round draft pick.) Trust me Bill wanted to pull the trigger on this one sooner rather than later. Then [Scott] Pioli [the Chiefs new General Manager and former Patriots personnel executive] was scared [edit]-less that he wasn’t going to end up with Cassel for a moment there because before he left [New England] Scott was [edit] sure he was going to get Matt-that’s why I feel he took the job in Kansas City. I am convinced it was [Belichick’s and Pioli’s master plan for [Pioli] to get Cassel all along when you watch how this played out.”

As for why Belichick ended up giving the Chiefs and Pioli such a sweetheart deal, the source opined some more.

“At the time all of this was going down, there’s was a part of me that felt like Belichick really wanted to take credit for Cassel. You see, I think if Matt goes to Kansas City, there is a chance he won’t be as good in the Chiefs’ system. Obviously if Cassel ended up in Denver, McDaniels can take more ownership of Matt’s success.”

But the league source told FOX31 sports that in his opinion Belichick took a lesser deal for Cassel in part to disassociate McDaniels’ work in Cassel’s accomplishments.

“I think Bill wants people to know that Brady and Cassel are successes because of his system. You see every other coach that left the Patriots has basically fallen flat on their face.”

As for who McDaniels will scout to replace Cutler if the Pro Bowl quarterback leaves?

“It will definitely have to be somebody who is smart enough to understand the intricacies of his system.”

And if Cutler is smart enough, he’ll make sure he convinces McDaniels he’s the guy not just physically but mentally as well.

“McDaniels has all the leverage he needs because Cutler is under contract, period. If Cutler tries to force his way out of there, plays for another team and performs poorly after all of this drama, his value will tank tremendously. Hopefully he decides to go back, but right now he is looking like an [edit].”

Quote off

I believe that last word was "asshole".

So Bus cook is a greedy agent
Jay Cutler is a Southern Frat Boy asshole and partier
and Josh McDaniels as the Beaver

Sounds right, but who knows?