For TT Lovers...

[LL2]

I saw this posted over at CBS Sports. Not sure if it has been posted already or anyone else has seen it. Some good points, and TT does need to start producing...I have supported most of his moves, but he is going on year 4.

March 6, 2009 1:58 pmScore: 232Log-in to rate:Log-in to rate: Log-in to rate:


1. Favre

2. For being such a draft wizard the only notable 1st pick is Hawk ( and trust me that didn’t take a rocket scientist)

3. Drafting Harrell

4. Firing Sherman he was a proven winner with only 1 losing season. Under his leadership, the Packers had won three consecutive division titles. ( that season we lost 4 or 5 RB's, you can't win if you don’t have balance)

5. Firing most of the front office between the 2006-2007 season

6. Thompson outright released safety and defensive leader Darren Sharper, who promptly defected to the Minnesota Vikings (and has had two Pro Bowl seasons, including leading the league in interceptions from his position, since being released).

7. Thompson declined to resign either of the Packers Pro Bowl Guards, Mike Wahle and Marco Rivera. As any veteran QB knows, not resigning two of your primary protectors has to be a bad sign for your health. A worse sign? Thompson did not draft a single Offensive Lineman to replace Wahle or Rivera in the first day of the draft, and instead signed low priced guards - and, most considered, career backups - Matt O’Dwyer and Adrian Klemm. At the time, Thompson praised both to high heaven, saying that they had solved the offensive line problems and saved money at the same time.

8. Inheriting a 10-6 and "rebuilding" it to a 4-12 team.

9. Thompson passed on re-signing Pro Bowl kicker Ryan Longwell.

10.Thompson passed on re-signing All-Pro center Mike Flanagan

11.Thompson signed Marquand Manuel away from the Seattle Seahawks, brought over DT Ryan Pickett from the St. Louis Rams, LB Ben Taylor from the Cleveland Browns, and cornerback Charles Woodson from the Oakland Raiders. Of Thompson’s free agent acquisitions from 2006, only Pickett and Woodson have played well - Manuel was an unmitigated disaster, and several others (Barry, Henderson, Taylor, and several other minor players) are today, less than two seasons later, all listed as “out of football.”

12.Signing NY Giants DB Frank Walker, a career backup. Walker would finish the year with one (1) pass defended.

13.WR James Jones in the third round (though Jones turned out to be a decent selection, but how his 676 yards for a third rounder beat Moss’s 1,493 for a fourth, I don’t know).

14.Consider this for a moment: exactly four players out of Thompson’s ridiculously high number of draft selections (more than any other team over the same period) in any of the four years he’s been Packers GM have contributed anything significant to the success of the team.

15.And Last but not least because he has divided the fans of GB!

[cpk1994]

Did Tank post this? On second thought, there are no gay reference in there so it cant be him. :lol:

[Stevogbfan]

shouldn't this post say "for tt haters"?

[Partial]

TT has been OK at best so far. I know some people don't like to look at cold hard facts, but the only thing that matters is one playoff appearance in 4 seasons.

That is completely unacceptable in GB. If the trend doesn't reverse this year, he'll be canned without a doubt imo.

[sheepshead]

I predict this thread will live on top of the forum for a while. Let the games begin.

[Gunakor]

2. (and could pertain to 1. as well) Aaron Rodgers isn't considered even a "notable" first round pick?

5. Thompson fired most of the front office between the 2006-2007 season. Then in 2007 the team finished 13-3 and hosted an NFC Championship game. Don't know why this was even noted as a knock against Thompson.

8. Were Taco Wallace, Noah Herron, Carlyle Holiday or Samkon Gado even considered when evaluating the 4-12 rebuilding effort in TT's first season as GM? I mean, it's hard to finish the season with double-digit wins when 2 of your top 3 WR's go down for the season, as well as each and every HB on your opening day roster. I don't know what people expect in that situation, who should TT have signed that year to be our #5 HB that would have put us over the top? People really need to let that one go.

12. Re: Frank Walker - a career backup, signed by TT to a one year deal to be, you guessed it, a BACKUP. Big surprise.

15. I still contend that Brett Favre divided the fans of GB. I don't recall Packer Nation being split before last summer. The Favre saga is what split Packer Nation into pro-Thompson/anti-Favre vs pro-Favre/anti-Thompson.

[Waldo]

14.Consider this for a moment: exactly four players out of Thompson’s ridiculously high number of draft selections (more than any other team over the same period) in any of the four years he’s been Packers GM have contributed anything significant to the success of the team.

This is just a load of crap.

Rodgers, Collins, Poppinga, Hawk, Colledge, Jennings, Spitz, Jolly, Hall, and Crosby are all starters and significant contributers.

Jones, Blackmon, Nelson, Jackson, Montgomery, and Rouse have all made big contributions off the bench, Jones, Blackmon, and Rouse have each made big plays that directly led to wins.

Sitton, Thompson, Bishop, Moll, Finley, Lee and Barbre are poised to become much bigger contributers in the near future.

[KYPack]

You could make a similar list for every coach and GM in the NFL.

It does sound like Tank's line of shit that somebody spruced up with decent grammar and spelling.

[Joemailman]

The points made will make sense to some people following a 6-10 season. Most of the points would have been laughable if made following the 2007 season. 2009 is the most important season of TT's tenure. He needs to prove that 2008 was the anomaly, not 2007.

[sheepshead]

I think MM's closer to the hot seat than TT is.

[Packnut]

Even in a best case scenario giving Teddy the benefit of the doubt, any HONEST (no kool-aid, wishful, may-be, excuse making and rational) fan would not be able to give him any grade higher than a C.

That list has a lot of FACTUAL mistakes that Thomspon has made that even the most ardent Teddy ass kissing clowns here would be hard pressed to defend.

I grade Teddy out at a C- for his four years in GB. Now that grade changes on the progress of Rodgers. IF he turns out to be an impact QB, then that grade has to go to B-. My reasoning is that QB is the most important position and if a GM hits on that pick, it should have a HUGE bearing on his over-all grade.

Based on what I saw last season, Rodgers has a better than 50-50 shot at being an impact player. I do not agree with those here who take it for granted that he will be an impact player. No one can predict with any degree of certainty that he's pro bowl bound.

It does seem in looking around at all the sites, that this season's results will go a long way in determing Thompson's future. If MM has Finally removed his head from his ass and will settle on a starting O line early in camp, and with the expected improvement of our WR's (Jennings, Jones and Nelson all have enough experience in the WC offense), and with Grant in camp and contract worry free, this offense should produce.

However, Capers aside, this D will be BRUTAL. Giving up 24 ppg last season will seem like a good thing compared to what happens this season. In order to have ANY success, Jenkins has to stay healthy all season and produce at DE and since he has'nt shown the ability to do that, how can we expect it? Harrell also has to stay healthy and shown some kind of talent that warrented a 16th first rd pick. Again, it has'nt happend so how can we count on it? Jolly will get convicted (Texas is the wrong state to fuck up in)so anyone counting on him is foolish.

Our LB play was HORRIBLE last season and only a total and complete moron would say any different. In the secondary, Bigby has to stay healthy and Collins still need's to improve. I have little worries about Woodson, Harris and Williams.

Toss a coin with special teams. They can't be any worse than last season.

Thompson must have a strong DEFENSIVE loaded draft. His first few picks will have to show some signs this season of being able to be counted on in year 2 to provide solid support. Without this, Teddy's demise is as good as done.

[Patler]

Hard to give much credence to an argument that:

- calls a guy with 105 NFL starts a "career backup".
- refers to a player who has never been to the Pro Bowl as a a "Pro Bowl" player.
- fails to identify Rodgers as "notable".
- finds fault for signing cheap FAs who are out of the NFL after two years while also finding fault for not re-signing expensive Packer FAs who are out of the NFL after two years.
-finds only "exactly four players...have contributed anything significant to the success of the team" from the likes of Jennings, Collins, Crosby, Hawk, Rodgers, Colledge, Spitz, Jolly, Poppinga, Blackmon, Jones, Nelson, etc. It would seem you could find more than four contributors from among 9 starters, a top punt returner and solid 3rd and 4th receivers.

Who were the victims from TT's, " Firing most of the front office between the 2006-2007 season"? I see very few changes from 2006 to the present in the office staff on the football side (which is all TT is responsible for). Most of the changes seem to be from interns moving out. The player personnel department has been very stable, most having been carried over from the Sherman administration. Who were the people fired?

[LL2]

I predict this thread will live on top of the forum for a while. Let the games begin.

It is the off season. What else is there to do?

[KYPack]

We could make a better, more factual list, right here on PR.

Klemm and O'Dwyer weren't to be the guards. It was Klemm and Wil Whitticker. If the scouts thought Andre Smith ran an ugly 40, can imagine big Wil burnin' a 40 with his shirt off?

Yeah, I, too thought TT should have used a higher pick to get a guard that draft.

But that wasn't the most serious GM gaffe in Packer History or something.

[sharpe1027]

There are some legit gripes in the list, but the one-sided nature of the list and significant gaffes in logic removes most credibility.

Whoever wrote that clearly had an agenda and wasn't trying to objectively view the situation. Cry me a river.

[ND72]

I'm only going to respond to all of this, cause #1, I'm kind of bored, and #2, I like being a dick from time to time, hense the reason I became a teacher :lol:




1. Favre
*Not sure what that means. What about Favre?

2. For being such a draft wizard the only notable 1st pick is Hawk ( and trust me that didn’t take a rocket scientist)
*Hmmmmm...Aaron Rodgers ring a bell?

3. Drafting Harrell
*Ok, give you that one. Bad pick. But Wolf drafted Reynolds, advantage, push.

4. Firing Sherman he was a proven winner with only 1 losing season. Under his leadership, the Packers had won three consecutive division titles. ( that season we lost 4 or 5 RB's, you can't win if you don’t have balance)
* I liked Sherman, but I like McCarthy a lot more. Since his firing, I've questioned a lot of stuff Sherman did.

5. Firing most of the front office between the 2006-2007 season
* That is usually what happens when you hire someone new.

6. Thompson outright released safety and defensive leader Darren Sharper, who promptly defected to the Minnesota Vikings (and has had two Pro Bowl seasons, including leading the league in interceptions from his position, since being released).
* This one is debateable, but I personally never liked Sharper all that much. He'd get his token 9 interceptions a year, and miss 7000 tackles a year.

7. Thompson declined to resign either of the Packers Pro Bowl Guards, Mike Wahle and Marco Rivera. As any veteran QB knows, not resigning two of your primary protectors has to be a bad sign for your health. A worse sign? Thompson did not draft a single Offensive Lineman to replace Wahle or Rivera in the first day of the draft, and instead signed low priced guards - and, most considered, career backups - Matt O’Dwyer and Adrian Klemm. At the time, Thompson praised both to high heaven, saying that they had solved the offensive line problems and saved money at the same time.
*Rivera lasted, what like 4 games in Dallas, and then was broken. Wahle did OK in Carolina, but was never his Packer self.

8. Inheriting a 10-6 and "rebuilding" it to a 4-12 team.
* And then going 27-21 the next 3 seasons, along with a NFC Championship game.

9. Thompson passed on re-signing Pro Bowl kicker Ryan Longwell.
* Mason Crosby? Anyone? Hello?

10.Thompson passed on re-signing All-Pro center Mike Flanagan
* What a great disaster that was too? Flanagan has been non-stop injured, and cut. Damn!

11.Thompson signed Marquand Manuel away from the Seattle Seahawks, brought over DT Ryan Pickett from the St. Louis Rams, LB Ben Taylor from the Cleveland Browns, and cornerback Charles Woodson from the Oakland Raiders. Of Thompson’s free agent acquisitions from 2006, only Pickett and Woodson have played well - Manuel was an unmitigated disaster, and several others (Barry, Henderson, Taylor, and several other minor players) are today, less than two seasons later, all listed as “out of football.”
* Barry? He refused to sign back and went to Houston, where he was cut. Henderson, I love the man, but he was done.

12.Signing NY Giants DB Frank Walker, a career backup. Walker would finish the year with one (1) pass defended.
* The fact they were looking for a backup or special team player, not a starter...

13.WR James Jones in the third round (though Jones turned out to be a decent selection, but how his 676 yards for a third rounder beat Moss’s 1,493 for a fourth, I don’t know).
* Let it go.

14.Consider this for a moment: exactly four players out of Thompson’s ridiculously high number of draft selections (more than any other team over the same period) in any of the four years he’s been Packers GM have contributed anything significant to the success of the team.
* 4? Lets count...Jennings, Jones, Jackson, Spitz, Colledge, Hawk, Poop, Collins, Rouse...plus lets throw in Tramon Williams & Atari Bigby, oh, and Ryan Grant into the conversation.

15.And Last but not least because he has divided the fans of GB!
* Yes he did, he showed how stupid those people who bitched about trading Favre can be.


He's the GM...when he took over the team, he can, and should have cleaned house. Damn him for giving us a good base of young players to build around and move forward with. [/b]

[bobblehead]

Hard to give much credence to an argument that:

- calls a guy with 105 NFL starts a "career backup".
- refers to a player who has never been to the Pro Bowl as a a "Pro Bowl" player.
- fails to identify Rodgers as "notable".
- finds fault for signing cheap FAs who are out of the NFL after two years while also finding fault for not re-signing expensive Packer FAs who are out of the NFL after two years.
-finds only "exactly four players...have contributed anything significant to the success of the team" from the likes of Jennings, Collins, Crosby, Hawk, Rodgers, Colledge, Spitz, Jolly, Poppinga, Blackmon, Jones, Nelson, etc. It would seem you could find more than four contributors from among 9 starters, a top punt returner and solid 3rd and 4th receivers.

Who were the victims from TT's, " Firing most of the front office between the 2006-2007 season"? I see very few changes from 2006 to the present in the office staff on the football side (which is all TT is responsible for). Most of the changes seem to be from interns moving out. The player personnel department has been very stable, most having been carried over from the Sherman administration. Who were the people fired?

Thank you. I wasn't going to make waste the time to make a fool of this crap, but I'm glad someone had the time on their hands.

[wist43]

I think MM's closer to the hot seat than TT is.

I've read on a couple of sites that TT and MM are on the hot seat... but I don't think there's any pressure whatsoever on either one of them.

TT will be in GB forever, and they will likely always be a competetive team year in and year out... good enough for the Packers. They'll also likely never win a SB with TT at the helm... but, that isn't a priority in Green Bay anymore.

TT is reminding me more and more of Carl Peterson... good talent evaluator, but average GM.

[Patler]

Does anyone know who all these front office firings were from '06-07 that the writer referred to?

The coaching staff was between '05 and '06. Besides, those are not generally considered "front office". The "front office" under the GM includes mostly the player personnel people (college and NFL scouts) and other direct football operations staff members like the equipment crew, video staff, etc. I haven't seen a lot of changes there.

[digitaldean]

In answer to your points:
1. Favre (who ended up fizzling in the cold weather/got injured, not to mention jerked the team around to revolve around him)

2. For being such a draft wizard Nelson was good pick, plus we got players like Jennings/Colledge in the Javon Walker trade - which REALLY helped the Broncos, Raiders...

3. Drafting Harrell - Agreed, that was a bone-up. Please also remember beloved Ron Wolf took Terrell Buckley over Troy Vincent, remember that one??

4. Firing Sherman he was a proven winner with only 1 losing season. Under his leadership, the Packers had won three consecutive division titles. ( that season we lost 4 or 5 RB's, you can't win if you don’t have balance). Sherman did have some success and deserves some credit. But he is by no means the HOF coach you point him out to be. He's the proven winner who didn't have the balls to go for 4th and a foot, plus threw the team under the bus after 4th & 26? The same proven winner who brought in Joe "I'm always hurt" Johnson? Plus, if Sherman was such a valuable commodity, how many NFL teams came beating down his door (as crickets are chirping...). Plus, he is having his problems at Texas A&M (the alumni already want him gone)

5. Firing most of the front office between the 2006-2007 season. I can not say for certain what I know about that, so I will cede your point.

6. Thompson outright released safety and defensive leader Darren Sharper. (I agree, he should have been kept)

7. Thompson declined to resign either of the Packers Pro Bowl Guards, Mike Wahle and Marco Rivera. Wahle & Rivera, did nothing appreciable in the tenures in Carolina & Dallas, respectively. Rivera was on an 80-year olds knees and Wahle was dumped by Carolina because his contract didn't match the productivity

8. Inheriting a 10-6 and "rebuilding" it to a 4-12 team. TT, tried to clean house to get rid of Shermy's WONDERFUL talent, but yes, you can put that on him. Just like you could put the hiring of MM and the NFCC berth on him too.

9. Thompson passed on re-signing Pro Bowl kicker Ryan Longwell. On a whiny kicker, who fingerpointed his last season here instead of sacking up and taking blame for his misses.

10.Thompson passed on re-signing All-Pro center Mike Flanagan Who did absolutely nothing in Houston and was eventually cut by Houston

11.Thompson signed Marquand Manuel away from the Seattle Seahawks, brought over DT Ryan Pickett from the St. Louis Rams, LB Ben Taylor from the Cleveland Browns, and cornerback Charles Woodson from the Oakland Raiders. Of Thompson’s free agent acquisitions from 2006, only Pickett and Woodson have played well - Manuel was an unmitigated disaster, and several others (Barry, Henderson, Taylor, and several other minor players) are today, less than two seasons later, all listed as “out of football.” TT has had some success, I'd just wish he would make more of a push in FA>

12.Signing NY Giants DB Frank Walker, a career backup. Walker would finish the year with one (1) pass defended. Walker was a backup as addressed earlier, not meant as a starter.

13.WR James Jones in the third round (though Jones turned out to be a decent selection, but how his 676 yards for a third rounder beat Moss’s 1,493 for a fourth, I don’t know). I do fault him for not getting Moss in here.

14.Consider this for a moment: exactly four players out of Thompson’s ridiculously high number of draft selections (more than any other team over the same period) in any of the four years he’s been Packers GM have contributed anything significant to the success of the team. I do think he needs to pick for quality not quantity this season. It does seem maddening for all the trading down.

15.And Last but not least because he has divided the fans of GB! To a SMALL degree, some of his work have caused his division. The biggest problem is that he didn't bow down to kiss the behind of a HOF QB who put himself above the team with all his hemming and hawing plus the convenience of texting and leaking rumors to the press.

TT does have to prove himself this season, but MM will have a toastier seat than TT. Some of his planning and questionable game time decisions were more responsible for 6-10.

[mission]

Sorry, this is retarded and so full of holes... it's been rehashed a million times and doesn't change anything.

If this goes beyond 3 pages it's because we have nothing else going on...

It's like Tank meets PacoPete meets Partial. Been there, done all that.

[Joemailman]

We could make a better, more factual list, right here on PR.

Klemm and O'Dwyer weren't to be the guards. It was Klemm and Wil Whitticker. If the scouts thought Andre Smith ran an ugly 40, can imagine big Wil burnin' a 40 with his shirt off?

Yeah, I, too thought TT should have used a higher pick to get a guard that draft.

But that wasn't the most serious GM gaffe in Packer History or something.

Do you really think it was TT's intention for Wil Whitticker to start at Guard as a rookie in 2005? I've always felt that was Sherman's brainstorm, and perhaps a contributing factor to his firing following the season.

[KYPack]

We could make a better, more factual list, right here on PR.

Klemm and O'Dwyer weren't to be the guards. It was Klemm and Wil Whitticker. If the scouts thought Andre Smith ran an ugly 40, can imagine big Wil burnin' a 40 with his shirt off?

Yeah, I, too thought TT should have used a higher pick to get a guard that draft.

But that wasn't the most serious GM gaffe in Packer History or something.

Do you really think it was TT's intention for Wil Whitticker to start at Guard as a rookie in 2005? I've always felt that was Sherman's brainstorm, and perhaps a contributing factor to his firing following the season.

I don't really know, Joe.

I think TT had a pretty good notion that O'Dwyer wasn't gonna hack the program. Fat Matt was here is Cincy before we picked him up. The guy was a terrible guard when healthy. A Jet fan buddy told me he couldn't believe O'Dwyer had gotten worse since leaving the Jets and coming to the Bengals. But he did, man he sucked. Then he was seriously hurt with leg miseries & out for a couple seasons. He was DONE when he got here. No way he could've played for anybody in '05, let alone us.

Whitticker was basically all we had left and he was not ready to play in the league. I really thought he might develop into a back-up G/T type guy in the future, but a starting NFL guard as a rook? No way.

What went on between Sherm and TT that year is largely mysterious. I've heard a little scuttlebutt, but I really don't know anything. Sherm wouldn't move Barry to guard, cause it would mess up the feared U-71 deal.

TT canned Sherm and didn't think he could work with him. I know that much.

[bobblehead]

I think MM's closer to the hot seat than TT is.

I've read on a couple of sites that TT and MM are on the hot seat... but I don't think there's any pressure whatsoever on either one of them.

TT will be in GB forever, and they will likely always be a competetive team year in and year out... good enough for the Packers. They'll also likely never win a SB with TT at the helm... but, that isn't a priority in Green Bay anymore.

TT is reminding me more and more of Carl Peterson... good talent evaluator, but average GM.

Revenue sharing, salary cap, and teams must spend most of said cap. If the goal isn't to win the superbowl and income/revenue is pretty much locked in, what is that goal??

[Patler]

Do you really think it was TT's intention for Wil Whitticker to start at Guard as a rookie in 2005? I've always felt that was Sherman's brainstorm, and perhaps a contributing factor to his firing following the season.

I don't think that was ever intended. Not for 2005. What I couldn't understand is why they never tried Tauscher at guard and Keven Barry as the starting RT. Tauscher was not that many seasons removed from having played a lot at guard when Rivera was injured and played only partial games. All I remember was Sherman saying that starting Barry would screw up the "U-71" package which was a big part of their offense.

People forget that going in to camp the Packers had other options for guards carried over from Sherman's days as GM, guys who had not played much in '04 but that Sherman liked for one reason or another. Any impression TT had of these guys came from Sherman, not from tape, because there was no tape on these guys:

Steve Morley - Sherman gave him a $100,000 bonus to sign as a FA out of Canada in 2004. That is a big bonus for a CFL player.
Brad Beddell - Sherman traded a draft pick to Miami for him in 2004.
Joe Hayes and Atlas Herron were resigned guards that Sherman had kept around through 2004.

I don't think any of them made it out of training camp.

[cpk1994]

Sorry, this is retarded and so full of holes... it's been rehashed a million times and doesn't change anything.

If this goes beyond 3 pages it's because we have nothing else going on...

It's like Tank meets PacoPete meets Partial. Been there, done all that.Got the T-Shirt too.

[sheepshead]

This was obviously written on a blog and not sports writer. Anyone still bitching about wahle and rivera should be kicked in the nut sack.

[cheesner]

I saw this posted over at CBS Sports. Not sure if it has been posted already or anyone else has seen it. Some good points, and TT does need to start producing...I have supported most of his moves, but he is going on year 4.

. . . .

OMG!

I have never heard any of this stuff before! Now we have a conspiracy covering up TT's determined plan of destroying the Packers!

What ever can we do?

I've got it! We can all post this stuff in every thread we find about the evil TT and his plan. Hang in there guys. Anyone who disagrees is obviously in love with TT and a conspirator. Don't listen to facts. Don't listen to logic or reason. The conspirators will just try to confuse you. Just keep posting this info out there every chance you get.

[DannoMac21]

I saw this posted over at CBS Sports. Not sure if it has been posted already or anyone else has seen it. Some good points, and TT does need to start producing...I have supported most of his moves, but he is going on year 4.

March 6, 2009 1:58 pmScore: 232Log-in to rate:Log-in to rate: Log-in to rate:


1. Favre - Aaron Rodgers

2. For being such a draft wizard the only notable 1st pick is Hawk ( and trust me that didn’t take a rocket scientist) - Aaron Rodgers

3. Drafting Harrell Your boy Sherman drafted Ahmad Carroll

4. Firing Sherman he was a proven winner with only 1 losing season. Under his leadership, the Packers had won three consecutive division titles. ( that season we lost 4 or 5 RB's, you can't win if you don’t have balance) Ahmad Carroll, no discipline, asleep at the Combine...

5. Firing most of the front office between the 2006-2007 season

6. Thompson outright released safety and defensive leader Darren Sharper, who promptly defected to the Minnesota Vikings (and has had two Pro Bowl seasons, including leading the league in interceptions from his position, since being released). And the Vikings one postseason apperance since picking Sharper up has done what? By the way, who's this Nick Collins guy?

7. Thompson declined to resign either of the Packers Pro Bowl Guards, Mike Wahle and Marco Rivera. As any veteran QB knows, not resigning two of your primary protectors has to be a bad sign for your health. A worse sign? Thompson did not draft a single Offensive Lineman to replace Wahle or Rivera in the first day of the draft, and instead signed low priced guards - and, most considered, career backups - Matt O’Dwyer and Adrian Klemm. At the time, Thompson praised both to high heaven, saying that they had solved the offensive line problems and saved money at the same time. Apparently offensive lineman never age. Awesome.

8. Inheriting a 10-6 and "rebuilding" it to a 4-12 team. Brett Favre, injuries.

9. Thompson passed on re-signing Pro Bowl kicker Ryan Longwell. And drafted a kicker who led the league in points his rookie year.

10.Thompson passed on re-signing All-Pro center Mike Flanagan What team's he on?

11.Thompson signed Marquand Manuel away from the Seattle Seahawks, brought over DT Ryan Pickett from the St. Louis Rams, LB Ben Taylor from the Cleveland Browns, and cornerback Charles Woodson from the Oakland Raiders. Of Thompson’s free agent acquisitions from 2006, only Pickett and Woodson have played well - Manuel was an unmitigated disaster, and several others (Barry, Henderson, Taylor, and several other minor players) are today, less than two seasons later, all listed as “out of football.” Pickett is the anchor to the middle of our defense and Woodson is a top 5 CB in the league. I'd say the positives outweigh the negatives.

12.Signing NY Giants DB Frank Walker, a career backup. Walker would finish the year with one (1) pass defended. Okay, he would also finish the year no longer a Packer.

13.WR James Jones in the third round (though Jones turned out to be a decent selection, but how his 676 yards for a third rounder beat Moss’s 1,493 for a fourth, I don’t know). Don't get me wrong, I wanted Moss more than anyone, but before you make a dumb comment like this, read up on the whole story and how everything went down. Moss didn't want to come to GB and be 2nd tier next to Driver. Also, where would Jennings be right now w/ Moss on the team? But when you have two Pro Bowl WR's and possibly the best WR corps in the NFL, don't complain.

14.Consider this for a moment: exactly four players out of Thompson’s ridiculously high number of draft selections (more than any other team over the same period) in any of the four years he’s been Packers GM have contributed anything significant to the success of the team. I considered it. I also considered laughing.

15.And Last but not least because he has divided the fans of GB! - He hasn't divided fans of Green Bay, because fans of Green Bay have nothing to look forward to but positives. He divided nut-suckers of Brett Favre with the fans of Brett Favre.

[Joemailman]

Do you really think it was TT's intention for Wil Whitticker to start at Guard as a rookie in 2005? I've always felt that was Sherman's brainstorm, and perhaps a contributing factor to his firing following the season.

I don't think that was ever intended. Not for 2005. What I couldn't understand is why they never tried Tauscher at guard and Keven Barry as the starting RT. Tauscher was not that many seasons removed from having played a lot at guard when Rivera was injured and played only partial games. All I remember was Sherman saying that starting Barry would screw up the "U-71" package which was a big part of their offense.

People forget that going in to camp the Packers had other options for guards carried over from Sherman's days as GM, guys who had not played much in '04 but that Sherman liked for one reason or another. Any impression TT had of these guys came from Sherman, not from tape, because there was no tape on these guys:

Steve Morley - Sherman gave him a $100,000 bonus to sign as a FA out of Canada in 2004. That is a big bonus for a CFL player.
Brad Beddell - Sherman traded a draft pick to Miami for him in 2004.
Joe Hayes and Atlas Herron were resigned guards that Sherman had kept around through 2004.

I don't think any of them made it out of training camp.

My expectation was that Grey Ruegamer would be the starter once O'Dwyer was cut. Ruegamer was nothing special, but had started 11 games the year before.

[wist43]

I think MM's closer to the hot seat than TT is.

I've read on a couple of sites that TT and MM are on the hot seat... but I don't think there's any pressure whatsoever on either one of them.

TT will be in GB forever, and they will likely always be a competetive team year in and year out... good enough for the Packers. They'll also likely never win a SB with TT at the helm... but, that isn't a priority in Green Bay anymore.

TT is reminding me more and more of Carl Peterson... good talent evaluator, but average GM.

Revenue sharing, salary cap, and teams must spend most of said cap. If the goal isn't to win the superbowl and income/revenue is pretty much locked in, what is that goal??

I think TT's goal is to implement his process, and he believes it is his process that will lead to success...

How often do you ever hear TT talk about winning the SB??? I've heard him say that they want to be consistent in their approach; I've heard him say they will take their highest rated guy when it's their turn to pick, regardless of position; I've heard him say, "we like OUR guys", etc...

Truthfully, I really can't say that TT has the SB as a goal... I think he'd be perfectly happy going 10-6 every year. I think Consistancy is more important to TT than winning it all.

[sharpe1027]

I think TT's goal is to implement his process, and he believes it is his process that will lead to success...

How often do you ever hear TT talk about winning the SB??? I've heard him say that they want to be consistent in their approach; I've heard him say they will take their highest rated guy when it's their turn to pick, regardless of position; I've heard him say, "we like OUR guys", etc...

Truthfully, I really can't say that TT has the SB as a goal... I think he'd be perfectly happy going 10-6 every year. I think Consistancy is more important to TT than winning it all.

IMO, a team that goes 10-6 over a period of several years has more of a chance at winning a SB than a team that only plans for one or two years and then needs to be completely retooled because of salary-cap hell.

I will take those odds all day.

[wist43]

I think TT's goal is to implement his process, and he believes it is his process that will lead to success...

How often do you ever hear TT talk about winning the SB??? I've heard him say that they want to be consistent in their approach; I've heard him say they will take their highest rated guy when it's their turn to pick, regardless of position; I've heard him say, "we like OUR guys", etc...

Truthfully, I really can't say that TT has the SB as a goal... I think he'd be perfectly happy going 10-6 every year. I think Consistancy is more important to TT than winning it all.

IMO, a team that goes 10-6 over a period of several years has more of a chance at winning a SB than a team that only plans for one or two years and then needs to be completely retooled because of salary-cap hell.

I will take those odds all day.

I agree to a certain extent... however, if you're close enough, and all you need is that one or two guys... TT won't go and get them. That's the point, I guess.

[Waldo]

I think TT's goal is to implement his process, and he believes it is his process that will lead to success...

How often do you ever hear TT talk about winning the SB??? I've heard him say that they want to be consistent in their approach; I've heard him say they will take their highest rated guy when it's their turn to pick, regardless of position; I've heard him say, "we like OUR guys", etc...

Truthfully, I really can't say that TT has the SB as a goal... I think he'd be perfectly happy going 10-6 every year. I think Consistancy is more important to TT than winning it all.

IMO, a team that goes 10-6 over a period of several years has more of a chance at winning a SB than a team that only plans for one or two years and then needs to be completely retooled because of salary-cap hell.

I will take those odds all day.

I agree to a certain extent... however, if you're close enough, and all you need is that one or two guys... TT won't go and get them. That's the point, I guess.

I love this cliche. Lots of Packer fans like to cite it as gospel.

When/who was the last "over the top" FA that worked? Sounds good in practice, but I am at a loss to come up with a successful example. At least since the 90's (Marshal Faulk).

[Guiness]

I love this cliche. Lots of Packer fans like to cite it as gospel.

When/who was the last "over the top" FA that worked? Sounds good in practice, but I am at a loss to come up with a successful example. At least since the 90's (Marshal Faulk).

Jared Allen! Nope, missed the playoffs. Haynesworth! Mmm, jury's still out, but I think I know the answer. Edgerrin James? The Cards eventually put it together, but he wasn't the reason. I've got it: Brett Favre!!! Nope, didn't quite get the result the Jets were hoping for there either.

Seriously, Faulk is a good example. Reggie, of course. You have to acknowlege Moss's role in the Pats '07 season - while you could argue is didn't put them 'over the top' because they didn't win the SB, you can't take away from that season. Deon was pretty instrumental in SF's run that year.

But there sure aren't many. Many more examples of huge dollars spent on FA's who may have played well, but it wasn't enough.

[Zool]

Moss was traded not a FA and restructured his enormous contract down to 1 year. Sorta the opposite of FA actually.

[Guiness]

Moss was traded not a FA and restructured his enormous contract down to 1 year. Sorta the opposite of FA actually.

Um, oops?

Yer right, of course.

[retailguy]

I think TT's goal is to implement his process, and he believes it is his process that will lead to success...

How often do you ever hear TT talk about winning the SB??? I've heard him say that they want to be consistent in their approach; I've heard him say they will take their highest rated guy when it's their turn to pick, regardless of position; I've heard him say, "we like OUR guys", etc...

Truthfully, I really can't say that TT has the SB as a goal... I think he'd be perfectly happy going 10-6 every year. I think Consistancy is more important to TT than winning it all.

IMO, a team that goes 10-6 over a period of several years has more of a chance at winning a SB than a team that only plans for one or two years and then needs to be completely retooled because of salary-cap hell.

I will take those odds all day.

I agree to a certain extent... however, if you're close enough, and all you need is that one or two guys... TT won't go and get them. That's the point, I guess.

I love this cliche. Lots of Packer fans like to cite it as gospel.

When/who was the last "over the top" FA that worked? Sounds good in practice, but I am at a loss to come up with a successful example. At least since the 90's (Marshal Faulk).

Well, if you're pointing to the Super Bowl, maybe you can say this.

Plenty of free agents make their teams better.

Here's 3 from the past few years for starters:

Drew Brees
Michael Turner
Adalius Thomas

[Waldo]

Adalius Thomas is viewed as a FA disappointment/bust. They paid for a 10+ sack a year guy, and got a 5-6 sack a year guy. If they trade for Pep, there's a good chance they cut Thomas to clear cap space.

[cpk1994]

Jared Allen! Nope, missed the playoffs.No he didn't.

[KYPack]

It was a trade, but SF took less value to get rid of Charles Haley to the Cowboys. It made a big difference in the Cowboy D. They won three rings with Haley and he has 5 for his career.

Haley made a huge difference in the Cowboys locker room.

Google "Charles Haley Stories" and see what a sick, crazy guy he was.

[Guiness]

You're just trying to bring some penis pictures into this thread KY. What a guy you are!

[Fritz]

Jared Allen! Nope, missed the playoffs.No he didn't.

He was also traded for - not a free agent.

[retailguy]

Adalius Thomas is viewed as a FA disappointment/bust. They paid for a 10+ sack a year guy, and got a 5-6 sack a year guy. If they trade for Pep, there's a good chance they cut Thomas to clear cap space.

Huh? Maybe by some of the fans, or uninformed talking heads, but asserting that is ridiculous if you ask me.

Thomas is versatile, and almost always in position. His sack #'s dipped in 2007, that's true, but keep in mind, he was used as an OLB when NE went into a 4/3 defense. Depending on how often this happened, it would affect his sack numbers. Remember, while the 3/4 is the base alignment in NE, they use a fair amount of the 4/3 alignment.

In 2008, he was injured (broken forearm) in November, played nine games, I think. In those nine games he managed 5 sacks. That would put him on pace for double digit sacks. But, keep in mind that sacks are just one measure. In 2007 total tackles were only off by 5 over his last season in Baltimore.

Baltimore also runs a very agressive form of the 3/4. Bellicheck likes to keep people guessing with mixed fronts and occasional 4/3 looks. Expecting him to match his exact stats with Baltimore would be foolish and short-sighted. He's used differently in NE.

Thomas is not a bust by any stretch, and has provided and will continue to provide stability in that defense. I know it's been reported that Thomas is a "forgotten man" in NE, but I don't believe it. I wouldn't put it past Bellichek to find a way to put both of them on the field at the same time.

[RashanGary]

When the Patriots were taking mid to bottom level FA's, supplemented with the draft and getting everyone to perform at higher levels, how many SB's did they win? 3

Since they started spending big in UFA and the moss trade, how many SB's have they won? ZERO.




Certainly NE has been a bigger player in the upper end UFA's the last few years. However, they have not had the real championships to go with their paper championships since they switched gears.

The Steelers have stuck with the low tier UFA's/draft and they're winning the titles now. Maybe one way is better than the other, huh ;)

SB winners tend to have one thing in common the last 10 years, they do not have many hgih priced UFA's when they win. Maybe they add them after and lose, but during their peak, they have less $ spent on FA's than most teams. That is undeniable.

[Waldo]

It's simply a matter of $$. They already were right up against the cap (too little room for the rookie class), and cleared the space by trading Vrabel and Cassell. They signed a few FA's, but are sitting at about 15M in cap space right now.

Julius will take 10-12M/yr in cap space if they trade for him.

If they do, they have made their bed, one of Wilfork or Seymore cannot be resigned, there isn't cap space to do so. With Canty getting 7M/yr in FA, Seymore would expect an even larger contract, Vince is probably looking at 6.5-7.5M/yr.

So they trade for Peppers, they are going to lose either Vince or Seymore, most likely Seymore, and are going to have to clear about 5M off the cap to keep the one they choose (if they do the contract this year)

They can't get the $$ this year from Adalius, he costs 6.4M to the cap this year, they would get back 1.9M but would cost 12.6M in accelerated cap. They have to cut him next year though if there is no cap, as he's due a cap charge of 10.4M in 2011, and will be 34 years old. He has a big backloaded deal.

Is Adalius really worth top 10 pass rusher money? That's what he got in his contract.

5 sacks in 9 games pace = 9 sacks in 16 games

With Adalius and Moss, NE has gotten into the business of paying for the current team with the cap in the future. They are another team like the Colts, Cowboys, Skins, and Vikings that are not going to be in good shape at all if there is a cap in 2010, as all of those teams would be well over the cap if there is a cap next year.

[retailguy]

Waldo,

None of that makes the guy a bust. That's what I'm arguing. You assert 9 sacks, I say 10. You ignore that he went down in the 2nd quarter of game 9, and if you want to do the math, you MUST include those minutes too. I don't think that you're arguing that 9 sacks makes him a bust, but at 10, he's ok. Additionally, you neglect to mention that he garnered 6 of his 6.5 sacks in 2007 in the final 6 games.

During the beginning of the 2007 season, he was; A. - With a new team, B. - acclimating to a new system, scheme, & personnel, C. - Being used in both a 3/4 and 4/3 defense, D. - being used at both inside and outside linebacker. It is reasonable to conclude that it took some time for him to acclimate and get up to speed. His performance in 2008, before his injury suggests that he was returning to his Baltimore days in terms of being a force on the defense.

In any event, Thomas had 11 sacks, ONE year, other years he was in high single digits, so he was returning to his pre NE performance prior to the injury. Next, you neglect to mention that he led the team in sacks prior to his injury in 2008, despite playing some inside linebacker too.

Now, looking at Wilfork and Seymour - creative things can be done to keep the team intact. Will it mortgage future years? Sure. But, Brady is 32, Moss is in his 30's, Seymor is 30, Thomas is 32. Point is, that the core of the team is now old. They've got a 3 or 4 year window, and then they need to start over. They can mortgage the cap for a couple of seasons, and that'll work with some young rookie talent.

Will they do that? Who knows. But NONE of that labels Thomas a bust. The real decision, using your POV which I don't necessarily agree with but nonetheless, is, will the additional money and picks that Peppers costs, be money better spent than sticking with Thomas? I don't see it, and that's why I don't think this trade happens.

The dropoff from Peppers to Thomas is not that big to justify the cost, unless Carolina really values a 2nd round pick. I doubt that NE gives up more than that for the reasons I stated.

Personally, I think Peppers plays this season on the Franchise tag. We'll see.

[Waldo]

The fact of the matter remains, they paid Thomas more than 7M/yr. For a pass rusher/OLB, that is 10 sk/yr money. The Phins paid a 1 year older Joey Porter less money than the Pats paid Thomas, and got more in 1 year than the Pats have gotten in 2. Is he really the 3rd best guy on the team, and their best defender? His paycheck says that he is.

He may not be an outright bust, but he sure isn't keeping his end of the 7M/yr bargain up.

They will paid him 24M for for the first 3 years for the deal, really as a pass rusher decline starts at 30, 7+ sack seasons are a rarity for a 32 year old guy or older (2 guys in the top 28 sackers last year were 32 or older at the end of the season), and Adalius will be 32 years old this year. They paid for the few remaining years of the prime window for a sack artist and bloated contract in his declining years, he's now outside of the prime window and into the declining years, having not given them any peak production years when in his prime.

[hoosier]

Waldo,

None of that makes the guy a bust. That's what I'm arguing. You assert 9 sacks, I say 10. You ignore that he went down in the 2nd quarter of game 9, and if you want to do the math, you MUST include those minutes too. I don't think that you're arguing that 9 sacks makes him a bust, but at 10, he's ok. Additionally, you neglect to mention that he garnered 6 of his 6.5 sacks in 2007 in the final 6 games.

During the beginning of the 2007 season, he was; A. - With a new team, B. - acclimating to a new system, scheme, & personnel, C. - Being used in both a 3/4 and 4/3 defense, D. - being used at both inside and outside linebacker. It is reasonable to conclude that it took some time for him to acclimate and get up to speed. His performance in 2008, before his injury suggests that he was returning to his Baltimore days in terms of being a force on the defense.

In any event, Thomas had 11 sacks, ONE year, other years he was in high single digits, so he was returning to his pre NE performance prior to the injury. Next, you neglect to mention that he led the team in sacks prior to his injury in 2008, despite playing some inside linebacker too.

Now, looking at Wilfork and Seymour - creative things can be done to keep the team intact. Will it mortgage future years? Sure. But, Brady is 32, Moss is in his 30's, Seymor is 30, Thomas is 32. Point is, that the core of the team is now old. They've got a 3 or 4 year window, and then they need to start over. They can mortgage the cap for a couple of seasons, and that'll work with some young rookie talent.

Will they do that? Who knows. But NONE of that labels Thomas a bust. The real decision, using your POV which I don't necessarily agree with but nonetheless, is, will the additional money and picks that Peppers costs, be money better spent than sticking with Thomas? I don't see it, and that's why I don't think this trade happens.

The dropoff from Peppers to Thomas is not that big to justify the cost, unless Carolina really values a 2nd round pick. I doubt that NE gives up more than that for the reasons I stated.

Personally, I think Peppers plays this season on the Franchise tag. We'll see.

The Patriots don't use a 4-3. You must mean 2006 in Baltimore.

[KYPack]

You're just trying to bring some penis pictures into this thread KY. What a guy you are!

No, that's Skin's gig.

About 10 years ago I spoke to a recently retired NFL assistant coach whom I had once worked with.

The subject got around to Haley. He asked me if I had heard the stories about Charles. Back then I had heard the attacks on Young and Seifert stories. This guy said those tales were true but that "Haley is one of the few guys that the rumors are nowhere as bad as the truth about him".

Even with that, I still don't believe the "meeting room" tale.

[retailguy]

The Patriots don't use a 4-3. You must mean 2006 in Baltimore.

Umm. No. The Patriots base defense is a 3-4. They spend a lot of time in a 4-3 look, and Thomas is on the field as a Linebacker in both formations. He played almost every defensive snap in 2008 before he broke his forearm.

[Bretsky]

Hopefully I didn't miss too much good stuff; I read the title and know when I'm not welcome :lol:

[Rastak]

I love this cliche. Lots of Packer fans like to cite it as gospel.

When/who was the last "over the top" FA that worked? Sounds good in practice, but I am at a loss to come up with a successful example. At least since the 90's (Marshal Faulk).

Jared Allen! Nope, missed the playoffs. Haynesworth! Mmm, jury's still out, but I think I know the answer. Edgerrin James? The Cards eventually put it together, but he wasn't the reason. I've got it: Brett Favre!!! Nope, didn't quite get the result the Jets were hoping for there either.

Seriously, Faulk is a good example. Reggie, of course. You have to acknowlege Moss's role in the Pats '07 season - while you could argue is didn't put them 'over the top' because they didn't win the SB, you can't take away from that season. Deon was pretty instrumental in SF's run that year.

But there sure aren't many. Many more examples of huge dollars spent on FA's who may have played well, but it wasn't enough.


He definitely started in their playoff game.

[SnakeLH2006]

TT has been OK at best so far. I know some people don't like to look at cold hard facts, but the only thing that matters is one playoff appearance in 4 seasons.

That is completely unacceptable in GB. If the trend doesn't reverse this year, he'll be canned without a doubt imo.

Snake's going out on a limb....yet I agree Partial. :shock: :shock: