Nick Collens skipping offseason program, looking for new dea

[pack4to84]

skipping offseason program, looking for new deal

But when Collins learned that the team wasn’t interested commencing negotiations aimed at giving him a new deal, Collins decided that participating in offseason workouts (at least for the first week) falls beyond the scope of “what I have to do to help this team.”
http://www.madison.com/wsj/mad/breaking_news//443728

[pittstang5]

Oh Geez, here we go!

First Williams, now Collins. Who's next.

Ordinarily, I wouldn't think this is too big of a deal, but since theirs a new strength and conditioning coach, who it sounds like is really revamping the workout sessions, plus a brand new defense to install - wouldn't it be wise for all players, especially defensive players to attend these things.

I love how all players say, "This is a business." Yeah, well that might be true. But if my job was going to change, I think I'd want to attend the meetings to see what those changes are.

Another thing, don't these players, especially Packer Players, know that if you work hard and produce, you will be taken care of. Poppinga is the best example. Good things come to those that wait.

[LL2]

Collins had a great year last year, and Williams has a promising future, so TT should give them both decent deals and lock them up now. The Packers have had secondaries that sucked for a long time, and the future looks promising for that group. Harris and Woodson are only going to be around 2-3 more years, so I'm sure the deals could be structured so more of the payout is down the road a couple years. Also, so what if they are trying to take care of Jennings first. Just get deals done!

[pbmax]

Williams must be there if the only missing player is Collins. And as he is currently missing just the strength and conditioning segment now (as opposed to OTAs or minicamp) he won't be missing much. Capers has said installation will not happen until OTAs.

Its news but it looks like Jennings is going to get done first.

[Patler]

Collins has already gotten a $2.5M escalator for 2009 because of his performance in 2008, per the terms of his existing contract. The added $2.5M should be enough to get him there in the off season and participating until they have time to discuss an extension.

[BZnDallas]

this shit is really getting old... sign a contract and play!... if you play well enough you will be compensated... just b/c you make one pro bowl doing what you are being payed to do doesn't mean you should hold out for more...

what happens when you sign a contract that a one year pro bowler might get and you make a pro bowl the next year??... do you sit out again and say hey "i'm a 2 time pro bowler now, i deserve even more money!"...

[CaptainKickass]

Maybe the org is allowing this because they have "something up their sleeve" -

What kind of trade value does Collins have right now, or even closer to the draft?

What kind of draft pick+player packages could be put together and for whom?



.

[Fritz]

Sigh. I know, I know, I know. It's a business. But dammit, it sucks sometimes.

I tend to think if Collins went about his business and got to the strength training sessions and so on, he'd get his due reward in the form of a new contract.

Maybe he just doesn't feel like working out? Wants to take some more time off, so this is a ploy? Maybe this is like calling in sick so you can go play golf. I don't know.

[Packnut]

I guess I'm one of the few who was'nt impressed by the season Collins had. Ya can't give this guy a huge contract based on one season and especially not knowing how he'll adjust to the 3-4.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Trade Collins? lol.

Ok lets trade our 25 year old pro bowl safety.

How about we stop being so dam cheap and pay our good players. I mean shit we have tons of money to spend. I took four years to develop this guy and now that he finally gets it people are open to trading him? I just don't get it.

[hoosier]

Trade Collins? lol.

Ok lets trade our 25 year old pro bowl safety.

How about we stop being so dam cheap and pay our good players. I mean shit we have tons of money to spend. I took four years to develop this guy and now that he finally gets it people are open to trading him? I just don't get it.

We owe you a tremendous debt of gratitude then! :lol: The problem with "pay the good players" is that every time you rework someone's contract it opens the door for someone else to come in and demand a new deal. If you do that every time someone outpeforms their contract, pretty soon your salary structure will be a mess. In addition to that principle, there are two specific factors the Packers need to look at: (1) Core guys like Jennings and Kampmann who will need to be re-signed; how would redoing Collins's contract affect their ability to retain their other core players this year and next? (2) Collins is in the fourth year of a 5-year original deal. Rotoworld says he's due to make over 3 million this year. Does that include the incentives he reached last year? How does that compare to other safeties around the league who are at a comparable point in their careers (three or four years in, one pro bowl, etc.)? I'm not opposed to renegotiating in principle, but I think it should be done on a case by case basis while taking into account how valuable the guy is to the team, how far from market value their current deals are, and what other needs the team has.
EDIT: after reading the WSJ article it sounds like Collins is more or less taking the high road so far, as compared to Javon Walker. Judging from what has happened in the past I think he stands a much better chance of getting close to what he wants if he flies low under the media radar.

[pbmax]

And, of course, this could all be premature: (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/41564302.html)


???????????????

[Gunakor]

Collins had a great year last year, and Williams has a promising future, so TT should give them both decent deals and lock them up now. The Packers have had secondaries that sucked for a long time, and the future looks promising for that group. Harris and Woodson are only going to be around 2-3 more years, so I'm sure the deals could be structured so more of the payout is down the road a couple years. Also, so what if they are trying to take care of Jennings first. Just get deals done!

Yeah, but Collins is likely looking for an All-Pro type contract, of which he is still undeserving IMO. Don't forget he sucked balls for 3 years before finally showing up. I'd rework his contract to give him a bit more money, as I feel that's fair, but if he's looking for a top 5 FS deal, I'd tell him to piss off. At least until he proves that last year was not a fluke.

Besides, not showing up for voluntary work during a transition period isn't the best way of showing the team you deserve that money in the first place.

[wist43]

Collins has improved, but even though he made the pro bowl I don't consider him at that level... still, i would try to extend him, and hope he becomes more consistent.

He's not a very bright guy, and switching schemes may be a lot for him to handle, so there's every possibility he will regress next year. His sloppy tackling and poor angles are also a concern - although, he has improved at taking better angles.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Trade Collins? lol.

Ok lets trade our 25 year old pro bowl safety.

How about we stop being so dam cheap and pay our good players. I mean shit we have tons of money to spend. I took four years to develop this guy and now that he finally gets it people are open to trading him? I just don't get it.

We owe you a tremendous debt of gratitude then! :lol: The problem with "pay the good players" is that every time you rework someone's contract it opens the door for someone else to come in and demand a new deal. If you do that every time someone outpeforms their contract, pretty soon your salary structure will be a mess. In addition to that principle, there are two specific factors the Packers need to look at: (1) Core guys like Jennings and Kampmann who will need to be re-signed; how would redoing Collins's contract affect their ability to retain their other core players this year and next? (2) Collins is in the fourth year of a 5-year original deal. Rotoworld says he's due to make over 3 million this year. Does that include the incentives he reached last year? How does that compare to other safeties around the league who are at a comparable point in their careers (three or four years in, one pro bowl, etc.)? I'm not opposed to renegotiating in principle, but I think it should be done on a case by case basis while taking into account how valuable the guy is to the team, how far from market value their current deals are, and what other needs the team has.
EDIT: after reading the WSJ article it sounds like Collins is more or less taking the high road so far, as compared to Javon Walker. Judging from what has happened in the past I think he stands a much better chance of getting close to what he wants if he flies low under the media radar.

lol. It was supposed to say IT took four........ :)

Collins is just as important to this team as Jennings and Kampman are. And just like Kampman and Jennings the guy has one year left on a contract that he has outplayed. When players step up their game they deserve to get paid accordingly. When players don't play up to their contracts they rework their deals or are cut.

We don’t spend money on free agents so we should at least pay our guys when they play good.

[Gunakor]

Trade Collins? lol.

Ok lets trade our 25 year old pro bowl safety.

How about we stop being so dam cheap and pay our good players. I mean shit we have tons of money to spend. I took four years to develop this guy and now that he finally gets it people are open to trading him? I just don't get it.

We owe you a tremendous debt of gratitude then! :lol: The problem with "pay the good players" is that every time you rework someone's contract it opens the door for someone else to come in and demand a new deal. If you do that every time someone outpeforms their contract, pretty soon your salary structure will be a mess. In addition to that principle, there are two specific factors the Packers need to look at: (1) Core guys like Jennings and Kampmann who will need to be re-signed; how would redoing Collins's contract affect their ability to retain their other core players this year and next? (2) Collins is in the fourth year of a 5-year original deal. Rotoworld says he's due to make over 3 million this year. Does that include the incentives he reached last year? How does that compare to other safeties around the league who are at a comparable point in their careers (three or four years in, one pro bowl, etc.)? I'm not opposed to renegotiating in principle, but I think it should be done on a case by case basis while taking into account how valuable the guy is to the team, how far from market value their current deals are, and what other needs the team has.
EDIT: after reading the WSJ article it sounds like Collins is more or less taking the high road so far, as compared to Javon Walker. Judging from what has happened in the past I think he stands a much better chance of getting close to what he wants if he flies low under the media radar.

lol. It was supposed to say IT took four........ :)

Collins is just as important to this team as Jennings and Kampman are. And just like Kampman and Jennings the guy has one year left on a contract that he has outplayed. When players step up their game they deserve to get paid accordingly. When players don't play up to their contracts they rework their deals or are cut.

We don’t spend money on free agents so we should at least pay our guys when they play good.

Collins is slated to make 3 million this year. He's only had one good year in four, so I'd say that number is completely justified. He played good for one year, and he IS getting paid for it. How much more that that do you think he's worth?

He's got 2 years left on his deal, so I'd tell him that if he plays one more year at the level he played at last year then I'd negotiate an extension which would pay him like a Pro Bowl FS. Not before. We know he can play at an elite level now, but can he do it consistently? That's a very important question which needs to be answered before I'd consider a lucrative extension, and considering his salary this year as is, I don't think that's asking too much.

[Partial]

I don't think Collins is nearly as important as Kampman. Maybe Jennings.

[Lurker64]

[quote="pbmax"]And, of course, this could all be premature: (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/41564302.html)



I think "I'm not going to show up to the offseason workouts because my wife is having a baby" is probably forgivable.

[Patler]

Collins is getting an increase (salary or bonus) in 2009 of $2.5M in addition to his original 2009 salary of $515,000. His cap figure will be $3.415M

Based on 2008 salary information:
Collins 2009 cap figure of $3.415M would have ranked 13th highest in 2008.
Collins one-year salary + non-signing bonus income of $3.015M would have also ranked 13th highest in 2008.

That seems to be a reasonable place for him in the final year of a 5 year contract. It is understandable for him to want to negotiate an extension as soon as possible. It is also reasonable for the Packers to want to see him play at least part of 2009, to better assess if he is the somewhat better than average safety he appeared to be in his first four seasons, or if he is one of the better safeties that he appeared to be for 1/2 to 3/4 of the 2008 season.

[Patler]

He's got 2 years left on his deal, so I'd tell him that if he plays one more year at the level he played at last year then I'd negotiate an extension which would pay him like a Pro Bowl FS. Not before. We know he can play at an elite level now, but can he do it consistently? That's a very important question which needs to be answered before I'd consider a lucrative extension, and considering his salary this year as is, I don't think that's asking too much.

Collins has just one year left, not two. His contract expires after the upcoming season. Extending his contract at some point during the '09 season would be completely reasonable.

[Gunakor]

He's got 2 years left on his deal, so I'd tell him that if he plays one more year at the level he played at last year then I'd negotiate an extension which would pay him like a Pro Bowl FS. Not before. We know he can play at an elite level now, but can he do it consistently? That's a very important question which needs to be answered before I'd consider a lucrative extension, and considering his salary this year as is, I don't think that's asking too much.

Collins has just one year left, not two. His contract expires after the upcoming season. Extending his contract at some point during the '09 season would be completely reasonable.

Ah, my fault. Thought he was under contract through 2010. Still, I don't think he's earned more than the 3 million he's slated to make this year. I'd be all for extending him with a Ryan Grant type incentive laden contract, one that would pay him like an All Pro should he continue to produce like one. But 2005-2007 was not so long ago that I've forgotten how bad he looks at times, and any contract extension would have to be team friendly enough to protect ourselves should he regress.

Keep in mind that the DB's coach that he's worked with recently and has had a big hand in his development is no longer on our staff, and the defensive system he's been in is no longer the one we use. Collins will be playing a lot of single high safety this year, something he hasn't done a whole lot before. It's no guarantee that his production this year will even justify the 3 million he's due to recieve already, much less an even greater salary. We have to be careful here.

[bobblehead]

This is not mandatory and Nick Collins has every right to sit home. If he fails to repeat his '08 performance this decision will cost him MILLIONS of dollars....especially if its due to him not being there. Now, if he is simply waiting 3 weeks while his wife gives birth and he is working out with a personal trainer I have no problem with this.

I wouldn't give him a dime more until I see another 8 games this season. I probably wouldn't have given Rodgers his deal until midway through this year either, but I understand it.

Collins has ONE good season under his belt and it being paid plenty for that ONE season. He could come out this year and look lost again...its not unheard of.

[Patler]

I just reread the JSO article at:
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/41564302.html
and I want to comment on the following excerpt:


According to a source familiar with the situation, Collins is home in Florida with his wife, waiting for the birth of their third child. The club is aware why he is not there. Collins is expected to report for the off-season conditioning workouts after his child is born.

However, Collins and his agent have been frustrated by a lack of interest on the Packers' part to negotiate a contract extension and it's possible Collins will take his time before reporting to the workouts. During the team's Fan Fest last week, Collins said he intended to take part in the off-season conditioning program so that he could begin learning the 3-4 system.

Is it not also possible that Collins will jump on the first plane he can and get to GB as soon as possible after his child is born? Based on Collins comments at Fan Fest, isn't that the more likely scenario. What basis is there for the allegation that he might procrastinate?

Another example of trying to make a story where one may not exist.

[Fritz]

Sounds like this may be as much about the birth of a child as it is about the birth of a new contract.

[mission]

Sounds like something a man should be around for. Let's make a story out of it.

[Fritz]

I just reread the JSO article at:
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/41564302.html
and I want to comment on the following excerpt:


According to a source familiar with the situation, Collins is home in Florida with his wife, waiting for the birth of their third child. The club is aware why he is not there. Collins is expected to report for the off-season conditioning workouts after his child is born.

However, Collins and his agent have been frustrated by a lack of interest on the Packers' part to negotiate a contract extension and it's possible Collins will take his time before reporting to the workouts. During the team's Fan Fest last week, Collins said he intended to take part in the off-season conditioning program so that he could begin learning the 3-4 system.

Is it not also possible that Collins will jump on the first plane he can and get to GB as soon as possible after his child is born? Based on Collins comments at Fan Fest, isn't that the more likely scenario. What basis is there for the allegation that he might procrastinate?

Another example of trying to make a story where one may not exist.

Here, try this one, Patler: However, Collins and his agent have been frustrated by a lack of interest on the Packers' part to negotiate a contract extension and it's possible that Collins could pull a Brett Favre and "retire."

Here's another good one: However, Collins and his agent have been frustrated by a lack of interest on the Packers' part to negotiate a contract extension and it's possible that Collins will demand a trade to the New Orleans Saints so he can play closer to home and be united with former Packer Darren Sharper.

Here's a good one: However, Collins and his agent have been frustrated by a lack of interest on the Packers' part to negotiate a contract extension and it's possible that Collins is equally unhappy about the firing of Kurt Schottenheimer and may stay at home with his new child while his wife pursues a career in medicine.

Wait, how about this? However, Collins and his agent have been frustrated by a lack of interest on the Packers' part to negotiate a contract extension and it's possible that pigs will fly out of this writer's butt.

It's not that hard, Patler - c'mon, try it!

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Fair deal -

five year 82.35567 million

[Patler]

Here, try this one, Patler: .......

.......(redacted for brevity)

It's not that hard, Patler - c'mon, try it!

:lol: :lol: How about this one:

However, Collins and his agent have been frustrated by a lack of interest on the Packers' part to negotiate a contract extension and it's possible Collins will show up in camp, work as hard as he can to perform even better in 2009 so he can really stick it to the team at the bargaining table and make them sorry they didn't negotiate an early extension at a lower cost.

I know, I know...that is not very likely in the NFL today. :( :(

[billy_oliver880]

Who is his agent.... bus cook?

[Guiness]

Is it not also possible that Collins will jump on the first plane he can and get to GB as soon as possible after his child is born? Based on Collins comments at Fan Fest, isn't that the more likely scenario. What basis is there for the allegation that he might procrastinate?

Another example of trying to make a story where one may not exist.

I was thinking the same thing - this is a good example of a journalist stirring shit. I know I took time off for the birth of both my kids - even to the point of angering my boss by refusing to return to work when one was 'late'. So I can understand that he could probably care less what the Packers think of his staying home.

I have to subscribe to the 'where there's smoke, there's fire' line of thinking though. IF his agent did say they were upset with the lack of progress, this could well be the start of something, and it would be foolish to ignore it. His reason for staying home is valid, but it looks like his agent is using the opportunity to point out they're not happy.

[SnakeLH2006]

First off it's Collins not Collens..:lol: Sorry bro..caught flak in recent topic about Travon...err...Tramon. lol

Unlike a guy like Kampy and Jennings who have performed at high levels for multiple seasons, Snake sees no reason to jump into a long term deal with Collins, when it was said previously "he sucked for 3 years and had one good year"....Agreed.

Not only that, but he got bumped up to $3.5 million which seems about right. For all his BS plays in years 1-3..thank god he did something good in year 4. He's got money for his 3 babies and then some.

Finally, who knows how he's gonna be in a 3-4 as that is not only the front 7, but a total change for the entire D.

Normally, I'd like to re-up these young guys on their last year ASAP, but I'll hold my breath and see how Collins does leading the safeties this year under new coach Darren Perry. If he plays well, pay him after 8 games or so...if he's so-so...let him go. Collin's value has never been higher than right now, as it will be the same if he plays just as good during the 2009 season...so why give him mega money now?

This reminds Snake of the Ryan Grant scenario (sorry Patler :shock: ) but they only had 1 good year...I'd rather see multiple years as I'm sure most here are convinced Kampy and Jennings are consistent core performers worth a long term deal...so waiting to see for another half year of so to see if Collins is too, and worth it. Not saying he's not turned the corner, but what if we signed him for 6 years, 40 million like he wants, then he flops ass this year...We are stuck bitching about him longterm, instead of just 2009.

Snake's Take:

Wait. Observe. Make contract decision thereafter in 2009.

[Dylan McKay]

I just don't think Collins is any position to demand a new contract. Sure he had a good year in 2008, but he had two years of average to below average play before that.

[Bretsky]

I just don't think Collins is any position to demand a new contract. Sure he had a good year in 2008, but he had two years of average to below average play before that.


WELCOME TO PR Dylan ! Completely agree with you

[BlueBrewer]

[quote=Dylan McKay]I just don't think Collins is any position to demand a new contract. Sure he had a good year in 2008, but he had two years of average to below average play before that.




Unfortunately logic seldom prevails

[bobblehead]

I just don't think Collins is any position to demand a new contract. Sure he had a good year in 2008, but he had two years of average to below average play before that.

That is your first ever post?? Could't you have at least flamed TT or bare minimum ragged on Tex!!!

[Dylan McKay]

Hey nice reception. I saw this place a couple of months ago and liked to check in on the packer talk. I figured with a new season on the horizon with the draft coming up I would try and throw my 2 cents around this place.

I like Nick Collins, but I didn't think he was consistent enough, even in 2008 to make the pro bowl, sure he had some picks and all, but so did Darren Sharper.

[vince]

I didn't exactly chart his play or anything, but I don't recall Collins getting beat much last year, or whiffing on tackles more than once or twice that would warrant his play being called inconsistent. I agree that he was inconsistent his first two years, but he was pretty consistent last year - at least as far as I remember.

That said, I'm with Snake and others in that I don't think we should throw a big-money long-term deal at him until the coaches can get a sense for whether and how quickly he'll grasp being able to assume the helm of making more complex and quickly changing coverage calls in this new defensive scheme. He seemed to struggle with the previous scheme, which incorporated much simpler and less dynamic coverages.

Coming off his pro-bowl year, his and his agent's sense of worth isn't going to go up any more than it already has, so there is little to gain by rushing into a deal right now.

I hope he understands that he needs to be there from the beginning to learn the defense and maximize his success when the time comes for him to demonstrate he's worth the big payday he seeks.

[cheesner]

. . .
I hope he understands that he needs to be there from the beginning to learn the defense and maximize his success when the time comes for him to demonstrate he's worth the big payday he seeks.
Then knock on him early was his lack of smarts. It maybe took a few years for the mental aspects of the game to come to him before he blossomed last season. With the new system, he may again be behind. I think he should have worked something out with his wife, brought her to GB (they have docs there also) or have his wife develop some muscle control so she could have clamped down and kept the little one in labor for a week or so until Nick was done with camp.

Maybe that is why he is anxious to sign - he suspects he may struggle learning the new system. Stay away from camp so the new DC doesn't know you are not that bright.

[sharpe1027]

Maybe that is why he is anxious to sign - he suspects he may struggle learning the new system. Stay away from camp so the new DC doesn't know you are not that bright.

Sadly, this thought did cross my mind. Maybe the new defense might not play to all of his strengths, also a new coach doesn't always stick with established guys...

That being said, I see nothing to suggest that he won't show up for camps. I think this is just poor journalism until I see something to back it up.