Mark Tauscher update

[packers11]

www.rotoworld.com

Packers coach Mike McCarthy says he's been in regular contact with free agent OT Mark Tauscher (ACL surgery) and doesn't believe he'll be ready to play before October 1.

"It's a late injury," McCarthy said. "You do the match." Tauscher, injured on December 7, faces 8-10 months of recovery. He may not find a suitor soon.

Source: Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel

[red]

looks like we're going to need a new RT for this year

8-10 month seems a little short. he might not be able to go at all this season even if we did keep him

yuck

[Joemailman]

Looks like one of the young guys are going to get a chance to start. Allen Barbre and Giacomini are the likeliest choices. I suspect they've given up on Moll as a potential starter.

[bobblehead]

I would like the franchise to sign him for the minimum and bring him in to rehab with us. Maybe a 2 year deal, first at the minimum, second at 4 million. He has been a model packer, we should do right by him. The DL doesn't take a roster spot.

[red]

I would like the franchise to sign him for the minimum and bring him in to rehab with us. Maybe a 2 year deal, first at the minimum, second at 4 million. He has been a model packer, we should do right by him. The DL doesn't take a roster spot.

i think that would be a great gesture, but i don't know if i see it happening. he's very near the end, even before the injury, and tt might have been wanting to get younger there. if we move on this season we might not go back to him the next. unless that replacement really sucks this season

[Bretsky]

looks like we're going to need a new RT for this year

8-10 month seems a little short. he might not be able to go at all this season even if we did keep him

yuck


Good thing we're so set on the OL with some experienced vets to go along with the inexperienced youth :wink:

[Guiness]

from the What If department

What If he hadn't gotten hurt? What would've happened to him in FA? I thought he was still playing at a high level, and was surprised we didn't extend him during the season.

[Tarlam!]

This is a golden opportunity for TT to demonstrate how the organization stands by its own, even if it doesn't have any obligation to.

Bring him back home, pay him for his past efforts and let him retire a Packer when the time comes.

[australianpackerbacker]

You guys are crazy if you think TT will re-sign Tauscher. In my opinion if he were regarded as highly as you guys think by the Packers organization he would have been re-signed by now, regardless of injury, unless of course he is seeking a ridiculous amount of money vs his actual worth. It is obvious he will not be ready this season, so why bother re-signing him at all? So he can help your team 2 years down the track? At 33-34 years of age?

Im sorry if i dont subscribe to the theory of giving him a contract purely because he is a good guy, as some of you suggested. For one that is not a good business approach and secondly you cannot give out contracts based on emotion. Why do people feel that because someone is a good guy or a model citizen that they deserve something for their actions? We're not living in a perfect world here people. This guy has made more money in his 10 years playing pro football than most of us combined will make in our entire lifetimes, can someone please tell me why he deserves a "good-guy contract"?

[Tarlam!]

---can someone please tell me why he deserves a "good-guy contract"?

That's simple - team politics.

Look at the way things are developing. Last year a Grant hold out. This year Willams and Collins are already posturing. A cool million to a guy like Tausch might save the team a lot of grief in the very near future.

[Zool]

Lets say you own a company who has contracted employees and one of your employees goes on long term disability. During this, their contract expires. You like this employee and he/she has been a model employee for a lot of years, but there's no way of saying that they will be able to do their job anywhere near to the previous level when they come back. In fact it stands to reason with age and the nature of the extended disability that there will in fact be a drop off.

Do you give that employee a new contract while they are still on disability?

[SkinBasket]

Lets say you own a company who has contracted employees and one of your employees goes on long term disability. During this, their contract expires. You like this employee and he/she has been a model employee for a lot of years, but there's no way of saying that they will be able to do their job anywhere near to the previous level when they come back. In fact it stands to reason with age and the nature of the extended disability that there will in fact be a drop off.

Do you give that employee a new contract while they are still on disability?

Depends. Is this employee a hooker, prostitute, or any other kind of lady of the night?

[Zool]

Lets say you own a company who has contracted employees and one of your employees goes on long term disability. During this, their contract expires. You like this employee and he/she has been a model employee for a lot of years, but there's no way of saying that they will be able to do their job anywhere near to the previous level when they come back. In fact it stands to reason with age and the nature of the extended disability that there will in fact be a drop off.

Do you give that employee a new contract while they are still on disability?

Depends. Is this employee a hooker, prostitute, or any other kind of lady of the night?

Sure. Her disability was the equivalent of a prolapse. She's getting up there in age and her meth habit is getting out of hand in her downtime.

[run pMc]

Well, they are letting him use the Packer training facilities to rehab. That's not a bad gesture.
Agree the depth at RT is lacking and it would be nice to shore that up.

[Waldo]

---can someone please tell me why he deserves a "good-guy contract"?

That's simple - team politics.

Look at the way things are developing. Last year a Grant hold out. This year Willams and Collins are already posturing. A cool million to a guy like Tausch might save the team a lot of grief in the very near future.

A cool million?

Tausher's cap # was 6.2M last year I believe, he was one of the highest paid RT's in the NFL. I was very not hunky dory with his contract, and felt that he was the most overpaid guy on the team for a while. RTO's are not that valuable unless they dominate. Tausher didn't dominate and looked flat out bad last year before his injury. If the level of play that Tausher gave us last year is all that we are looking for, I feel that several guys on the the team could give that to us, Sitton and Colledge could play it as well or better than Tausher did in his prime. RT are not nearly as valuable as people think they are, unless the guy is a road grader in the run game, a RT is not very valuable. With a good QB, even a mediocre at best RT should give up less sacks than you can count on a single hand.

[Tarlam!]

Yes, Zool, if it were my company, I would take care of the employee. After all, it's my money. Not sure what I'd do if I were CEO of a PLC.

Waldo, Tauscher would be looking for a huge payday in year one. Give him a roster bonus year two.

The signal sent to the locker room would be worth the money.

[Waldo]

Yes, Zool, if it were my company, I would take care of the employee. After all, it's my money. Not sure what I'd do if I were CEO of a PLC.

Waldo, Tauscher would be looking for a huge payday in year one. Give him a roster bonus year two.

The signal sent to the locker room would be worth the money.

The signal that everybody that wants money, no matter how they play, gets it, is an outstanding signal to send to the locker room.

[Patler]

Yes, Zool, if it were my company, I would take care of the employee. After all, it's my money. Not sure what I'd do if I were CEO of a PLC.

Waldo, Tauscher would be looking for a huge payday in year one. Give him a roster bonus year two.

The signal sent to the locker room would be worth the money.

Wouldn't the signal sent to the locker room be one of even more entitlement than already exists?

The Packers signed Tauscher to a new contract when he was rehabbing from his first injury. They did that when many thought they would take a wait and see attitude about that injury. Then, they gave Tauscher a "good guy" bump in pay just because they thought he was underpaid. They did that without extending his contract at all, which is quite unusual. Usually increases like that for now reason at least add another year voidable by the player, or something.

The Packers have treated Tauscher very well during his career. In some ways it almost seems like it is Tauscher's turn to offer to comeback at the vet's minimum, perhaps with bonus payments for starts, or something. Think of the message THAT would send to the players about loyalty to the organization that makes them wealthy.

[Old School]

I think you waste your time with today's athletes trying to prove you are a good guy. For the most part the only thing they care about is the name on the back of their jersey.

Collins will be handsomely paid this year; yet he is sending a message to the team by staying away. (Yes I know his wife is pregnant. Whoop dee doo!)

Fact is, if "full of himself" Nick doesn't get to Green Bay and meet conditioning standards as well as learn the new defense, the message he'll get will be a pink slip. It's not like he didn't know about the program or his wife's condition. He could have brought her to Green Bay some time ago.

Sadly the above paragraph sums up the way things are in sports today. Allowing Tauscher to rehab at the Packer facilities is as far as the Packers shoud go for now. They would have been within their rights to have kept him away.

[Waldo]

I guess I'm in the minority in thinking there is next to zero reason to resign Tausher, even if perfectly healthy.

Tausher is not the same guy he was in 2003-2004, when he was pretty good. Tausher is not a physically talented guy, and never was. He's a try hard guy that gets the most out of his limited physical ability, his greatest asset his whole career had nothing to do with good play, and everything to do with an absolute lack of bad play. Tausher never made mistakes. He'd go years with no penalites or stupid mistakes that got the QB hit or left yards on the field.

Tausher is not, and never was a guy that would pancake DE's and LB's, or be the lead man moving down the field blazing a trail for the backs. Even when we ran more screens during Sherman's time, we tended to run them to the left, not the right, Mark was never athletic enough or good enough in space to really be a good screen guy.

There is a lot of value in having a mistake free guy that isn't really any better than good enough. That was Mark. That is not him any more. He isn't good enough any more. He's been slowing down yearly during MM's time and really showed that he was near the end last year. He was getting beat by run of the mill DE's and was not getting any push in the run game. Since '06 our run game has been changing due to the limitations of our line. One of the staple run plays of any system is the outside zone or stretch play. For teams with an athletic pass blocking line, that should be the play that they can execute the best. We can't. Neither of our tackles can stretch the ends. We've been progressively getting worse at that play, it peaked in '06, Morency excelled at running that play, and if there is a play meant for Jackson's strengths, that's it.

We can run the inside zone well. That is Grant's play, virtually every long one he broke was out of an inside zone run. But that play has limitations, there really is nowhere to go if the A gap is shut down. LB's were shooting our A gaps last year anticipating that play. Jackson made his hay by bouncing broken plays outside, basically assuming that they were broken as he bounced out so quickly. Grant had no answers but to plow through them, bouncing outside is not his game. The inside zone play is a compliment to the outside zone play, without the outside zone, the inside zone alone is shut down too easily if used too frequently.

Changing running schemes is not the answer. Mark and Chad aren't getting better no matter when system they are in. Both lost their run blocking ability before their pass blocking ability. That's fine for Chad for now, there is still a lot of value to having a near shutdown LT, even if he completely sucks at run blocking (he does). But to make up for it, the RT has to be a good run blocker, which unfortunately Mark no longer is. If it weren't for the fact that Sitton was a rookie and battled injuries at the absolute worst time, and that Moll was very mistake prone, and Breno not ready to play as a rookie, Mark would have been benched. His play was terrible last year, at his age, coming off of ACL surgery, it isn't getting better. Were it not for the penalties on Moll, was our offense any worse when Moll as playing RT? If Mark still was the guy on tape in '03-'04, even with the injury, do you think that he'd still be on the market?

We have a lot of guys that could play RT.

Colledge I feel could outplay Mark in every way if he was the starter. He makes mistakes and is penalized, but he also dominates at times, something that Mark doesn't do. Colledge would rarely if ever, struggle with LDE's in pass pro. He can handle speed, he can handle power, he can't handle length. Fortunately the guys with a good game that have length are almost always RDE's (even then, there aren't a lot of them).

Sitton could probably step in an pick up where Mark left off with little issue. He's more physically talented than Mark and is a very similar player otherwise. But he could be a dominant RG, he has more road grader in him than any other offensive lineman on the team, and is athletic and smart enough to excel at G. RG is his best position, but he has RT experience (he played RT in college) and would be good there too.

Moll has been around a lot and can play well. He is also very mistake prone, his biggest issue. Were he to get that cleaned up and play mistake free, he could be every bit as good as Mark was in his prime, and he is coming into his prime. Were he to focus exclusively on RT for an offseason and camp, he has a chance. He has to fix the mistakes, that is by far his biggest weakness, other than that he's a pretty decent player. If he doesn't fix the mistakes though, he has little shot.

Barbre has all the physical talent in the world, learning the game at the pro level is his biggest issue. RT is not a brainiac position though, so given an offseason and camp to focus on it, he could probably do well. He has the physical ability to dominate, and would likely be a decent pass protector from the get go. I would have little issue with him at RT if he focused on it and it alone for an offseason, and feel with no additions that he's the most likely guy to start there. He has the talent to be a great LG, but not the smarts, as a ZBS LG is one of the more mentally demanding positions, unlike RT. Given a shot though to play RT and time to focus on it, he could be a good one. Unless we take RT in the first (LOL) or second, and MM keeps DC at LG and Sitton at RG, since he's already been a pro for a few years, I think that Barbre would outplay any mid-round or later guy drafted at RT. As he's likely the best pass protector big enough to play RT not named Sitton or Colledge, he's the most likely candidate to start, MM errs on the side of pass blocking ability.

Breno I know very little about other than that he's a RTO. He'd have a shot as well, and I'd like his chances just as much as any mid or later round rookie. He has the raw physical ability to be a dominant road grader type RT, pass pro would be his biggest issue at this point.

I'm sure that we'll draft someone as well. If one of our guys shows that they can play low error-low penalty ball, I like their chances to be better than Tausher last year from the get go, as all of them are more physically talented than Tausher, plus on the up nearing their prime as players. Unlike Tausher who I don't think is ever even going to play as good as he did even last year again. He fell off a cliff, the rock keeps dropping fast when then happens.

LIS, I see little value in resigning Tausher, even if he he was 100% healthy, our line is better served getting the starter for the next 5 years in place now, than waiting longer on guys who are ready to start, or would be starting quality after a few games of experience.

[Gunakor]

This is a golden opportunity for TT to demonstrate how the organization stands by its own, even if it doesn't have any obligation to.

Bring him back home, pay him for his past efforts and let him retire a Packer when the time comes.

He's been paid for past efforts. It's not like he's been playing for free for the entire decade. If he wants to retire a Packer, he has every opportunity to do so this year. If he's not ready to call it a career just yet, I'd rather he finish his career elsewhere. Like I said throughout the entire Favre deal last summer, I have no loyalty to specific players. I have loyalty to the team, and the team would be better off without him at this point. He's not going to help us win any games. He's damaged goods. Let some other GM be foolish enough to pay for that.

[Gunakor]

Fact is, if "full of himself" Nick doesn't get to Green Bay and meet conditioning standards as well as learn the new defense, the message he'll get will be a pink slip. It's not like he didn't know about the program or his wife's condition. He could have brought her to Green Bay some time ago.

People are reading too much into the Nick Collins thing. First off, this is a voluntary workout, not mandatory. Nick Collins isn't the only football player who didn't come to this voluntary workout, and nobody was bitching about it when Woodson or Favre would skip these. Secondly, they are not installing a new defense right now. This is strictly conditioning. There is no film work, no classroom, no installation at all. Nick isn't missing anything. As long as he shows up to the mandatory stuff in shape, there's no problem whatsoever.

[Waldo]

Fact is, if "full of himself" Nick doesn't get to Green Bay and meet conditioning standards as well as learn the new defense, the message he'll get will be a pink slip. It's not like he didn't know about the program or his wife's condition. He could have brought her to Green Bay some time ago.

People are reading too much into the Nick Collins thing. First off, this is a voluntary workout, not mandatory. Nick Collins isn't the only football player who didn't come to this voluntary workout, and nobody was bitching about it when Woodson or Favre would skip these. Secondly, they are not installing a new defense right now. This is strictly conditioning. There is no film work, no classroom, no installation at all. Nick isn't missing anything. As long as he shows up to the mandatory stuff in shape, there's no problem whatsoever.

There is classroom and film work right now. Capers is installing/teaching the "what" portion right now (this is what we are going to do), the next step that they haven't gotten to is the "how" portion (this is how you go about doing it). Once they move on from the what portion, they start working with position coaches on technique work, which increases in the OTA's and leads up to minicamp where they begin to assemble it all and put it together as a whole.

[Gunakor]

Fact is, if "full of himself" Nick doesn't get to Green Bay and meet conditioning standards as well as learn the new defense, the message he'll get will be a pink slip. It's not like he didn't know about the program or his wife's condition. He could have brought her to Green Bay some time ago.

People are reading too much into the Nick Collins thing. First off, this is a voluntary workout, not mandatory. Nick Collins isn't the only football player who didn't come to this voluntary workout, and nobody was bitching about it when Woodson or Favre would skip these. Secondly, they are not installing a new defense right now. This is strictly conditioning. There is no film work, no classroom, no installation at all. Nick isn't missing anything. As long as he shows up to the mandatory stuff in shape, there's no problem whatsoever.


There is classroom and film work right now. Capers is installing/teaching the "what" portion right now (this is what we are going to do), the next step that they haven't gotten to is the "how" portion (this is how you go about doing it). Once they move on from the what portion, they start working with position coaches on technique work, which increases in the OTA's and leads up to minicamp where they begin to assemble it all and put it together as a whole.

Really? If there is installation going on right now, why are these workouts still voluntary? You'd think that attendance would be mandatory for something like that...

[texaspackerbacker]

I agree with what Bobblehead said, although the $4 million for the second year seems a bit much.

McCarthy's wording--no suitors until later--sounds like the Packers are planning on waiting to see if se does or doesn't get big money elsewhere. If not, they pick him up for around the minimum.

I disagree that Tauscher was "near the end" before the injury. Clifton maybe fits that description, but Tauscher not so much.

As for RT this season, Colledge did the job in the one game he played there. If we draft a LT or if Clifton comes back fairly healthy, I think he gets the RT spot. If not, we have several other choices--Moll being about the least likely one.

[Waldo]

I agree with what Bobblehead said, although the $4 million for the second year seems a bit much.

McCarthy's wording--no suitors until later--sounds like the Packers are planning on waiting to see if se does or doesn't get big money elsewhere. If not, they pick him up for around the minimum.

I disagree that Tauscher was "near the end" before the injury. Clifton maybe fits that description, but Tauscher not so much.

As for RT this season, Colledge did the job in the one game he played there. If we draft a LT or if Clifton comes back fairly healthy, I think he gets the RT spot. If not, we have several other choices--Moll being about the least likely one.

Tausher looked like crap last year. When low mistake Tausher looks like crap, that is bad news, he doesn't have the ability to "get better", he was maxed out that way. When he's getting beat or playing poorly, while not making mistakes, that is a very bad sign.

[KYPack]

Last season was quite probably Tauscher's worst as a Packer. But I didn't realize Mark is only one of 3 T's re-habbing from surgery.

Breno Giacomini is rehabilitating from surgery on his right ankle and left tackle Chad Clifton is coming off minor knee surgery. For Cliffy, those tune-ups are practically annual. Breno got hurt, how? A spirited practice?

We are thin on troops at tackle. I'd say sign Tauscher to a 2 year, 5 million dollar deal. The vet min is $845,000. Give him a mil for '09. If he does get right, you've got him for '10. He is losing it, but he is a tricky old pro. No kid is gonna be ready right away. if you move Colledge or Sitton, you've got a back-up when MT gets healthy.

I don't know about the "send the team a message", stuff. If you wanna send a message, call Western Union.

[Guiness]

Tausher looked like crap last year. When low mistake Tausher looks like crap, that is bad news, he doesn't have the ability to "get better", he was maxed out that way. When he's getting beat or playing poorly, while not making mistakes, that is a very bad sign.

I don't know that he looked like crap, but he wasn't as good as he had been.

Your comments on this are insightful - Tauscher played mistake free (how many YEARS without a holding call?) so if he played mistake free last year, and got beat...he may well have lost that vaunted 'step'.

OTOH one thing that might tell us he might be ok going forward is if he was playing through an injury last season, which hurt his ability to make plays.

[Waldo]

Last season was quite probably Tauscher's worst as a Packer. But I didn't realize Mark is only one of 3 T's re-habbing from surgery.

Breno Giacomini is rehabilitating from surgery on his right ankle and left tackle Chad Clifton is coming off minor knee surgery. For Cliffy, those tune-ups are practically annual. Breno got hurt, how? A spirited practice?

We are thin on troops at tackle. I'd say sign Tauscher to a 2 year, 5 million dollar deal. The vet min is $845,000. Give him a mil for '09. If he does get right, you've got him for '10. He is losing it, but he is a tricky old pro. No kid is gonna be ready right away. if you move Colledge or Sitton, you've got a back-up when MT gets healthy.

I don't know about the "send the team a message", stuff. If you wanna send a message, call Western Union.

Every OL on the roster but Spitz and Wells is capable of playing RT. The situation is not dire. There is a draft keep stocking up on depth behind the previous depth that is ready to start.

[Patler]

I thought Tauscher looked bad early last year, but I thought he was playing much better before he was injured. I don't think the entire year was a bad one for him, just a bad stretch early in the season.

[Patler]

Last season was quite probably Tauscher's worst as a Packer. But I didn't realize Mark is only one of 3 T's re-habbing from surgery.

Breno Giacomini is rehabilitating from surgery on his right ankle and left tackle Chad Clifton is coming off minor knee surgery. For Cliffy, those tune-ups are practically annual. Breno got hurt, how? A spirited practice?

We are thin on troops at tackle. I'd say sign Tauscher to a 2 year, 5 million dollar deal. The vet min is $845,000. Give him a mil for '09. If he does get right, you've got him for '10. He is losing it, but he is a tricky old pro. No kid is gonna be ready right away. if you move Colledge or Sitton, you've got a back-up when MT gets healthy.

I don't know about the "send the team a message", stuff. If you wanna send a message, call Western Union.

Every OL on the roster but Spitz and Wells is capable of playing RT. The situation is not dire. There is a draft keep stocking up on depth behind the previous depth that is ready to start.

It also explains their interest in FA Duke Preston, who they had in for a visit last week. Big guy (6'5'', 330) who some think could find a home at RT, even though he has been used more at guard so far. If he can't do it, he provides another inside body if they move Colledge, Sitton or someone else outside.

[Waldo]

Tausher looked like crap last year. When low mistake Tausher looks like crap, that is bad news, he doesn't have the ability to "get better", he was maxed out that way. When he's getting beat or playing poorly, while not making mistakes, that is a very bad sign.

I don't know that he looked like crap, but he wasn't as good as he had been.

Your comments on this are insightful - Tauscher played mistake free (how many YEARS without a holding call?) so if he played mistake free last year, and got beat...he may well have lost that vaunted 'step'.

He never had a step to begin with. He was a better version of Scott Wells, very untalented, but smart, low error, savvy, and a very good technician to make up for that lack of talent.

Tausher looked like crap. Rodgers is a good enough QB to hide crap play from his RT, just like Favre was. The QB can see the rush coming from the RT, a good QB can get rid of the ball or move out of the way of a rush he can see, and rarely gets sacked by it. This is why awful pass blockers can get by on the right if they are dominant run blockers. Rodgers was pressured much too often, much too quickly off the right.

That situation would be OK if the RT was a dominant run blocker. But Tausher wasn't. Our running troubles last year stemmed mostly from the inability of both T's to get push. When that happens you can't stretch to either side. When you can't do that you have to call inside runs. When you do that too much opponents run blitz your middle. When that happens you have nowhere to run. That happened over and over last year.

Later in the season MM practically gave up on attempting to run an outside zone and starting running non-zone runs as a changeup to the inside zone runs, we weren't averaging anything more than a yard a carry on the stretch play midseason, but had to keep running it to keep the inside zone from being shut down, eventually he moved on to something else. All those 1 yard carries in the 1st and 2nd quarter where MM looked like an idiot for calling it, our line inept at blocking it, and the backs awful at running it, were necessary to keep the runs that worked open. Those runs didn't work because neither tackle could get push, on plays that don't work without good frontside tackle push.

[sharpe1027]

He never had a step to begin with. He was a better version of Scott Wells, very untalented, but smart, low error, savvy, and a very good technician to make up for that lack of talent.

Tausher looked like crap. Rodgers is a good enough QB to hide crap play from his RT, just like Favre was. The QB can see the rush coming from the RT, a good QB can get rid of the ball or move out of the way of a rush he can see, and rarely gets sacked by it. This is why awful pass blockers can get by on the right if they are dominant run blockers. Rodgers was pressured much too often, much too quickly off the right.

I don't know if saying he never had a step is fair. I think he had good talent, even if he didn't light up the combine. However, I do agree that between our two tackles Clifton was the one who relied upon his physical talent and Tauscher was the guy who got it done more through solid technique.

[Old School]

Ecellently explained, well thought out post, Waldo.

[Noodle]

That situation would be OK if the RT was a dominant run blocker. But Tausher wasn't. Our running troubles last year stemmed mostly from the inability of both T's to get push. When that happens you can't stretch to either side. When you can't do that you have to call inside runs. When you do that too much opponents run blitz your middle. When that happens you have nowhere to run. That happened over and over last year.

Later in the season MM practically gave up on attempting to run an outside zone and starting running non-zone runs as a changeup to the inside zone runs, we weren't averaging anything more than a yard a carry on the stretch play midseason, but had to keep running it to keep the inside zone from being shut down, eventually he moved on to something else. All those 1 yard carries in the 1st and 2nd quarter where MM looked like an idiot for calling it, our line inept at blocking it, and the backs awful at running it, were necessary to keep the runs that worked open. Those runs didn't work because neither tackle could get push, on plays that don't work without good frontside tackle push.

Waldo, Rather than lack of push, I think the bigger problem with our Ts was that they sucked at cutting backside pursuit.

To your point, neither of our Ts is all that athletic, and they both have struggled big time with the cutting required for ZBS to work. Bad cutting means no cut-back lanes at the LOS for the RB, which is really where you get the big gains in a ZBS system, I think.

We had a pretty good run game in GB when we ran power with these same Ts (Ahman Green may have had something to do with that success as well). Regardless, the point remains that it's probably time to say so long to Tausch.

[Gunakor]

That situation would be OK if the RT was a dominant run blocker. But Tausher wasn't. Our running troubles last year stemmed mostly from the inability of both T's to get push. When that happens you can't stretch to either side. When you can't do that you have to call inside runs. When you do that too much opponents run blitz your middle. When that happens you have nowhere to run. That happened over and over last year.

Later in the season MM practically gave up on attempting to run an outside zone and starting running non-zone runs as a changeup to the inside zone runs, we weren't averaging anything more than a yard a carry on the stretch play midseason, but had to keep running it to keep the inside zone from being shut down, eventually he moved on to something else. All those 1 yard carries in the 1st and 2nd quarter where MM looked like an idiot for calling it, our line inept at blocking it, and the backs awful at running it, were necessary to keep the runs that worked open. Those runs didn't work because neither tackle could get push, on plays that don't work without good frontside tackle push.

Waldo, Rather than lack of push, I think the bigger problem with our Ts was that they sucked at cutting backside pursuit.

To your point, neither of our Ts is all that athletic, and they both have struggled big time with the cutting required for ZBS to work. Bad cutting means no cut-back lanes at the LOS for the RB, which is really where you get the big gains in a ZBS system, I think.

We had a pretty good run game in GB when we ran power with these same Ts (Ahman Green may have had something to do with that success as well). Regardless, the point remains that it's probably time to say so long to Tausch.

The run game didn't die when Ahman left. The run game died when Whale left for Carolina and Rivera left for Dallas. Those guys are what made our run game go. Ahman barely cracked 1000 the year after they left, and a couple years after that he left for Houston and hasn't had a 1000 yard season since. The tackles have always been known as top flight pass blockers, but I never thought they were much better than average run blockers.

[Packers4Ever]

This is a golden opportunity for TT to demonstrate how the organization stands by its own, even if it doesn't have any obligation to.

Bring him back home, pay him for his past efforts and let him retire a Packer when the time comes.

I fully agree, Tarlam, I would like to see this happen to Mark. Also since he is a UW-Madison grad and has spent all his career with us it would be a nice gesture. He is the sort of young man you'd like to keep around as long as he is able.

[The Leaper]

Put me down in the camp of letting an aging veteran go and committing to youth. I love Tausch. He's a credit to the organization and himself. But let's face the facts...the guy has always been an effort guy with minimal physical skill. Now that he is losing what little physical ability he had to start with, he is a marginal starter at best...and a constant injury risk due to advanced age.

This team is now building around a young Rodgers. We need some guys on the OL who are young and hungry...not old and holding on. This team will NOT be a Super Bowl contender in 2009...the switch to a new defense all but cements that IMO. The focus now is 2010 IMO...which is why Thompson is not interested at all in free agency.

Now, if Tausch is willing to come back for a cheap contract because he doesn't get any strong interest elsewhere...I'm fine with him coming back and being a mentor to the young kids. But, I expect Green Bay to grab an OT relatively early in this draft. I would not pencil Tausch in as a starter in 2009.

[bobblehead]

Waldo. I remember reading all about that dude from Seattle that was going to give us so much problems in the playoffs. Tauscher made him disappear into a lambeau snow bank. He was dropping off last year, I agree. I happen to really like tausch and would like to see him rehab for the minimum and then have the club have an option for a very moderate contract for another year. I realize this isn't going to happen, but I can wish.

And Zool. I would throw my employee a retirement party and give him a parting bonus if he made me a lot of money over the years. I don't value money much beyond the point that it gives me independence.

[Bretsky]

completely agree with your sentiments bobble

But TT is all about youth and this seems to be the perfect reason to let him go by the wayside while we let the unprovens try to prove themselves.

[SnakeLH2006]

Lets say you own a company who has contracted employees and one of your employees goes on long term disability. During this, their contract expires. You like this employee and he/she has been a model employee for a lot of years, but there's no way of saying that they will be able to do their job anywhere near to the previous level when they come back. In fact it stands to reason with age and the nature of the extended disability that there will in fact be a drop off.

Do you give that employee a new contract while they are still on disability?

Depends. Is this employee a hooker, prostitute, or any other kind of lady of the night?

Snake's bet is TT moves on, as he likes 'em young. :shock: Taucher has been a godsend for many years, yet I doubt TT gives a fuck. Hard to blame him as injuries to a dude not known for athletic prowess are scary, as Snake feels Tauchy's (as much as I like him as a player) best days are gone.

Ho's have a 2 year rate of skill vs. production. They wear out quick and ALL must produce regardless. Tauchy produced at a high rate for years, but, alas...TT is all about the money for what he will get at an advanced hooker's age. It's sad but true, but Snake thinks TT may be a pimp, looking for the new breed to step up and make his money:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_3K88Os_ixFc/SaxpkP-9wrI/AAAAAAAAAoE/wGassszdE3I/s400/shaft.jpg

[Gunakor]

This is a golden opportunity for TT to demonstrate how the organization stands by its own, even if it doesn't have any obligation to.

Bring him back home, pay him for his past efforts and let him retire a Packer when the time comes.

I fully agree, Tarlam, I would like to see this happen to Mark. Also since he is a UW-Madison grad and has spent all his career with us it would be a nice gesture. He is the sort of young man you'd like to keep around as long as he is able.

Morally speaking, I'd agree 100%. It would be a very nice gesture to bring a guy that has given so much to this franchise as Tausch has.

But the problem is that nice gestures don't win football games.

In a cutthroat business like the NFL, where the ONLY thing that matters is winning, you keep the best players you can get. And I'm not sure that Tausch at this point could offer enough even as a backup to legitimately earn a spot on this football team. As I said before, he's damaged goods, and that's the only responsible way of looking at it. What he's done in the past should really have no bearing on the present, unless you truly believe that he'll be able to give the same production. I just can't bring myself to believe that the production he'll give when he finally does get healthy will be anywhere near what he's given in the past, so as much as I hate to see him go, it's time to cut the cord and move forward.

[Gunakor]

completely agree with your sentiments bobble

But TT is all about youth and this seems to be the perfect reason to let him go by the wayside while we let the unprovens try to prove themselves.

Do you really think that, given Tauscher's age and physical condition, he'll be able to beat out the younger guys on our roster? I mean, he's not even going to be ready to play until October. If he were going to be ready in August so that I could see him win a camp competition it'd be one thing. But he's not even going to be healthy enough to compete for his job when the compeition is underway. Isn't that a good enough reason for any GM to go younger?

[Guiness]

Do you really think that, given Tauscher's age and physical condition, he'll be able to beat out the younger guys on our roster? I mean, he's not even going to be ready to play until October. If he were going to be ready in August so that I could see him win a camp competition it'd be one thing. But he's not even going to be healthy enough to compete for his job when the compeition is underway. Isn't that a good enough reason for any GM to go younger?

Wow would I not write Tausch off. The doughboy has always got it done, and has stayed injury free for years, so it's not like his body is going to be breaking down. I see no reason to kick him to the curb; before the injury there was a lot of talk about how much it would take to re-sign him. And don't forget that hair! :D

I think GB will give him a 'prove-it' type contract, like Ahmad Green got after his knee injury. Vet minimum with bonuses built in for performance. Since he's an OL, the triggers would have to be based on snaps or starts. I don't think this is a big risk for the club (vet minimum is almost throwaway) and I think there would be at least a decent chance he sees the field a reasonable amount.

[Gunakor]

Do you really think that, given Tauscher's age and physical condition, he'll be able to beat out the younger guys on our roster? I mean, he's not even going to be ready to play until October. If he were going to be ready in August so that I could see him win a camp competition it'd be one thing. But he's not even going to be healthy enough to compete for his job when the compeition is underway. Isn't that a good enough reason for any GM to go younger?

Wow would I not write Tausch off. The doughboy has always got it done, and has stayed injury free for years, so it's not like his body is going to be breaking down. I see no reason to kick him to the curb; before the injury there was a lot of talk about how much it would take to re-sign him. And don't forget that hair! :D

I think GB will give him a 'prove-it' type contract, like Ahmad Green got after his knee injury. Vet minimum with bonuses built in for performance. Since he's an OL, the triggers would have to be based on snaps or starts. I don't think this is a big risk for the club (vet minimum is almost throwaway) and I think there would be at least a decent chance he sees the field a reasonable amount.

Again, there's little chance he'll even be cleared to practice until well after the season has started. By that time I hope to have a group in place on the line already. And Tauscher, for as good as he's been, will not be healthy enough to be part of that group. If he were still under contract I wouldn't release him, but seeing that his contract is up I wouldn't resign him either. I'd rather use that roster spot on a guy who can actually compete for a job come August.

[Guiness]

Well after the season has started, eh? Ya, you want your OL set by then. And the thought of him chewing up a roster spot is not good.

what about this - sign him - again, vet minimum + incentives, and chuck him on the PUP. When he's ready to practice, if shit isn't settled at RT, activate him, if not, IR or release.

[Gunakor]

Well after the season has started, eh? Ya, you want your OL set by then. And the thought of him chewing up a roster spot is not good.

what about this - sign him - again, vet minimum + incentives, and chuck him on the PUP. When he's ready to practice, if shit isn't settled at RT, activate him, if not, IR or release.

I suppose I'd be okay with this. Putting him on PUP frees up a roster spot, and the vet minimum is not going to hamper our ability to find someone to effectively play his position during those first 6 weeks. If he'd agree to it, I'm all for it.

[Lurker64]

Does someone who knows the legalese of the NFL better than I do know what exactly the difference would be "sign him now, stash him on the PUP list at the beginning of the season" vs. "sign him if and when he's healthy enough to play", besides "if you sign him now, nobody else will sign him"?

[sharpe1027]

Does someone who knows the legalese of the NFL better than I do know what exactly the difference would be "sign him now, stash him on the PUP list at the beginning of the season" vs. "sign him if and when he's healthy enough to play", besides "if you sign him now, nobody else will sign him"?

Two things, the first is exactly what you said, he won't go elsewhere. The second is that he will be able to attend team meetings, watch practices and rehab/workout with the team.

[Tarlam!]

If a player is "PUPed" he may not play the 1st 6 games. Then he must be activated, released or "IRed".

While the player is PUPed, he does not count against the roster. Not sure about the cap implications....We PUPed Harrell last season.

[SnakeLH2006]

If a player is "PUPed" he may not play the 1st 6 games. Then he must be activated, released or "IRed".

While the player is PUPed, he does not count against the roster. Not sure about the cap implications....We PUPed Harrell last season.

True, but PUPing (is that a word?) is usually done for younger players with upside. Snake feels Tauchy has given it his all and had maybe one of the most remarkable careers for someone with "limited upside" (draft talk from 2000) and low draft status in recent history.

For Tauchy to repeat it for 4 more years isn't unheard of, and I do like him alot for his steadiness, I doubt TT gives him much if any, esp. after signing the new OL today.

It's really too bad for Tauchy though, as he was poised for major bucks years ago when he tore his knee up and "settled" for very very Packer friendly 6 year deal on the cheap. Incredible bargain...then he's in line for his last payday, and gets hurt again. That sucks bad for him, as he never really got near his worth in paydays because of shitty luck.

Bottom line...TT might do a 1 year deal with vet. min. and incentives, but Tauchy being back in October bodes angst for his FA long term contract status.

[Guiness]

I don't know that I'd shed any tears for him Snake. He had a pretty solid cap number last year - round $5million, iirc. An

He never got the mega-bucks deal, but he did pretty well for an RT who never made the pro-bowl (not that he shouldn't have, just that he didn't).

[Waldo]

I don't know that I'd shed any tears for him Snake. He had a pretty solid cap number last year - round $5million, iirc. An

He never got the mega-bucks deal, but he did pretty well for an RT who never made the pro-bowl (not that he shouldn't have, just that he didn't).

I believe his cap # was 6.3 million last year.

[Fritz]

It's all relative, isn't it? We feel bad for ol' Tausch, who signed a team-friendly contrct after getting hurt, and now he's hurt again and may not get a contract anywhere - and if he does, it won't be much.

But the dude has made over a million dollars a year for the past few years, I believe.

Anybody else here bringing in that kind of dough?

Even if Tauscher never plays another down, as long as he wasn't investing with Bernie Madoff or investing on the ponies, he probably won't have to get a part time job at Wal-Mart as a greeter any time soon.

[Patler]

Tauscher's last contract, signed as he recovered from his first knee operation, was "sweetened" twice as I recall. In the end, the 5 year deal paid him over $19M per the information I can find. An average of nearly $4M/year for the last 5 seasons for a right tackle is a pretty good deal for the player. I would not call it team friendly, nor do I think Tauscher was overpaid. A fair contract for both, I think.

[Fritz]

Nonetheless, my point stands: Tauxcher, barring bad investments, is unlikely to ever be in a position to have to greet you as you walk through the golden gates of Wal-Mart.

[bobblehead]

completely agree with your sentiments bobble

But TT is all about youth and this seems to be the perfect reason to let him go by the wayside while we let the unprovens try to prove themselves.

I agree with this, but if we DL him it only costs us the cash (or dough in Tausch's case). We don't lose a roster spot at all.

My position is somewhat unreasonable(as in won't happen), but its the way I wish the world were. Pay him to rehab and if he really shocks we get a cheap year out of him as a backup if we need him in 2010. If we don't need him or he doesn't look effective anymore, then you cut him and allow him to go play wherever he wants.

I also would have kept bubba around another year since I am not a fan of humphry and no one can tell me we didn't miss Bubba's run blocking last year.

[Fritz]

completely agree with your sentiments bobble

But TT is all about youth and this seems to be the perfect reason to let him go by the wayside while we let the unprovens try to prove themselves.

I agree with this, but if we DL him it only costs us the cash (or dough in Tausch's case). We don't lose a roster spot at all.

My position is somewhat unreasonable(as in won't happen), but its the way I wish the world were. Pay him to rehab and if he really shocks we get a cheap year out of him as a backup if we need him in 2010. If we don't need him or he doesn't look effective anymore, then you cut him and allow him to go play wherever he wants.

I also would have kept bubba around another year since I am not a fan of humphry and no one can tell me we didn't miss Bubba's run blocking last year.

A good observation, Bobble. If you read Waldo's breakdown as to why MM often didn't run when it seemed logical, it came down to inferior blocking - particularly the tackles. So a run-blocking TE woulda helped.

As for Tausch, I don't disagree with your idea, but I feel less need to be sentimental when I read that his cap number was, like, 5 mill or something last year.

I haven't made five mill in my whole life. He'll be okay. If his feelings are hurt, he can check his bank balance.