Hawk, Victim of V-Bob's Scheme? Hero under Dom?

[Tarlam!]

I looked back at this thread: http://packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=16880&start=0 and asked myself, why was Hawk so successful at Ohio and coveted when he was drafted, but in the words of WIST became, a JAG for the Packers. http://football.about.com/od/nationalfootballleague/p/ajhawk.htm

One would expect a #5 overall to at least sniff around a Pro Bowl berth, but no, A.J. is a long way away.

Was Vanilla Bob's role for A.J. to blame? As I understand it, the OLBs were expected to flush runners into the middle for the Mike to eventually tackle.

Wasn't A.J. used in a lot of Ohio blitz packages really successfully? IIRC, he was praised for his instinctive play in college.

And will Dom Capers be able to get A.J.'s level of play to where we fans expected it to be? What needs to happen for A.J.'s lights to go on?

[pittstang5]

Hawk and Kampman are two players I'm really interested in seeing how they do in this new scheme. I think all the reports I've seen have Hawk playing one of the middle positions, which may not have as much glory compared to an OLB that rushes the passer. But I'm more interested in seeing if Capers uses him in blitz packages.

[wist43]

I'm thinking he will be better... and it's no secret I absolutely despised that POS scheme they were running.

That said, Hawk is what he is... an average, to maybe slightly above average LB. He'll make the tackles in front of him, but don't expect him to make many plays.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think Hawk was good (not great but better than average) his first two years--just wasn't asked to do a lot of different things. He had a bad year last year. The reason? I'm guessing it had a lot to do with his two injuries.

[Dylan McKay]

Injuries to the defensive line also had a lot to do with the poor play of the linebackers this year. Barnett took a beating before he got hurt, and Hawk was playing extremely well the first weeks of the season and then everything fell apart for him and the defense.

I have no idea how well Hawk is going to play in the new system.

[Tarlam!]

I think Hawk was good (not great but better than average) his first two years--just wasn't asked to do a lot of different things. He had a bad year last year. The reason? I'm guessing it had a lot to do with his two injuries.

OK, but Hawk was dominant in college, a game winner, an impact player. Why hasn't it translated to the pros? I mean, not at all.

He's "only" above average.

[Gunakor]

I think Hawk was good (not great but better than average) his first two years--just wasn't asked to do a lot of different things. He had a bad year last year. The reason? I'm guessing it had a lot to do with his two injuries.

OK, but Hawk was dominant in college, a game winner, an impact player. Why hasn't it translated to the pros? I mean, not at all.

He's "only" above average.

For being a guy who was routinely asked to eat up blocks so that Barnett could run free to make plays in the old system, he sure racked up alot of tackles. That tells me he's better than average at both eating up blocks and shedding them to make plays himself.

He did the job he was asked to do and then some, it just wasn't the job the FANS asked of him (being the #5 overall pick). In this new aggressive scheme Capers brings, and figuring that his chest/groin injuries are healing properly this offseason, I expect Hawk will be a beast to gameplan around this season. He's better than average against the run, and he can blitz. The difference between Hawk last year and Hawk this year is going to be staggering, so long as he stays healthy.

[rbaloha1]

Hawk was overrated in college along with an overrated Big 10.

Another example of an athlete with great combine numbers that does not transfer to consistent pro bowl performance.

AJ is best running sideline to sideline not taking on blockers. What a disappointment.

[Tarlam!]

Well, there is clearly no agreement on Hawk if i take the last two posts in isolation.

I am very, very confused on Hawk now.

[Dylan McKay]

Hawk was overrated in college along with an overrated Big 10.

Another example of an athlete with great combine numbers that does not transfer to consistent pro bowl performance.

AJ is best running sideline to sideline not taking on blockers. What a disappointment.

I could say the same about Ray Lewis. Just saying.

[Gunakor]

Hawk was overrated in college along with an overrated Big 10.

Another example of an athlete with great combine numbers that does not transfer to consistent pro bowl performance.

AJ is best running sideline to sideline not taking on blockers. What a disappointment.

And yet taking on blockers is exactly what he's done so well since he's been drafted. He's never been a sideline to sideline player as long as he's been here. I'm not sure what you were looking at. Taking on blockers was his primary responsibility since the day he was drafted, and he did a fantastic job at it. Just look at Nick Barnett's total tackles in 2006 and 2007 (when he and AJ were both healthy) to realize just how well AJ ate up blocks.

Are you that unwilling to accept the possibility that AJ's lack of impact plays for our team could very well be an unfortunate result of the role he was asked to play? That being asked to do grunt work like eating blocks so other players could make impact plays might have something to do with the lack of impact plays Hawk himself made? That a change in role might just allow Hawk to meet and exceed the expectations of a #5 overall pick?

[cheesner]

Hawk still has a chance to be a great player. He is good now, above average, but I am hoping he makes more of an impact this year.

This is a guy who has it all. He is more athletic than this years superstud rookie Curry. He has great instincts, and loves the game. Why this hasn't translated to more impact plays on the field, I am not sure why. Is it the way he was being used? Did he need a few years to adapt? Not sure, but I hope he steps up to the next level this year.

[Noodle]

One thing that Hawk does not get enough credit for is how sure he is in the tackle. He almost never whiffs, and when you have to face AD/AP at least twice a year, a sure-tackling LB is huge.

I think Hawk has the same "problem" that fans see in Barnett: They never blow anybody up. These guys wrap up and usually hit at the waist or below, but you rarely see them just destroy some guy, separating man from ball, helmet, and will to live.

But I'm ok with that. Let Bigby do the smacking. I want my LBs to make a sure, sound tackle at or near the LOS.

[The Leaper]

Hawk is a solid player...and I think he will have more ability to make plays in this scheme than the old one. We need some stout bodies up front to let him and Barnett run wild though...plenty of stout bodies.

[Fritz]

Ideally, I'd like to see two early round d-linemen drafted, and maybe a "project" guy later. That would shore things up, provide competition and be insurance in case of injury.

[sharpe1027]

One thing that Hawk does not get enough credit for is how sure he is in the tackle. He almost never whiffs, and when you have to face AD/AP at least twice a year, a sure-tackling LB is huge.

I think Hawk has the same "problem" that fans see in Barnett: They never blow anybody up. These guys wrap up and usually hit at the waist or below, but you rarely see them just destroy some guy, separating man from ball, helmet, and will to live.

But I'm ok with that. Let Bigby do the smacking. I want my LBs to make a sure, sound tackle at or near the LOS.

Guys get blown up when LBs are asked to aggressively attack the LoS. Don't recall them doing that much in their scheme. IDK. Chicken or the egg I guess. Was it the scheme or the players? Probably a bit of both. I expect to see quite a few more big plays out of our LBers this year.

[Zool]

But I'm ok with that. Let Bigby do the smacking. I want my LBs to make a sure, sound tackle at or near the LOS.

This has always been my problem with Barnett. He's always dragging guys down after a chase. I don't know if he's always tentative and his speed makes up for that or what, but RB's get decent chunks of yards way too consistently. For now I'm willing to chalk it up to scheme.

[Pugger]

Wasn't it in 2007 when the bare's D line was a mess and Urlacker disappeared? I'm hoping this new scheme will bring out the best in ALL of our LBs. :)

[Dylan McKay]

The same goes for Ray Lewis, who might just happen to be the best linebacker of this generation. A couple of years ago the Lewis was hurt and struggling in Baltimore and basically begging the Ravens to switch back to the 4-3 an get some big bad defensive tackles to protect his ass. See Ngata. Lewis's career seemed to perk right back up after they drafted him.

The days of 260 pound pluggers at linebacker are just about over in the NFL.

[rbaloha1]

Wasn't it in 2007 when the bare's D line was a mess and Urlacker disappeared? I'm hoping this new scheme will bring out the best in ALL of our LBs. :)

Agreed. Maybe the Hawk apologists will stop and the dude finally lives up to the hype.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Agreed. Maybe the Hawk apologists will stop and the dude finally lives up to the hype.

Judging by your "Hawk was overrated in college because of the overrated Big 10 and another example of a workout warrior" comments, I'm guessing you have a bias that you are having a hard time overcoming.

How do you think he did his first two years in the league? Try taking away your pre-draft bias and give your fair assessement. I'd say he was good his first two years. He certainly wasn't an elite playmaker, but he was good (and in a lot of ways that don't get noticed). Certainly, not a bust. Now, I think he had a poor third year. The most reasonable explanation seems to be that the injury affected him more than he let on. And I don't buy the stuff about him saying he was 100%. That's just being a warrior and leader. If he had said he was playing injured, people would rip him for making excuses. Pretty obvious in the level of his play in year 2 and year 3 that he wasn't the same physically.

[rbaloha1]

Agreed. Maybe the Hawk apologists will stop and the dude finally lives up to the hype.

Judging by your "Hawk was overrated in college because of the overrated Big 10 and another example of a workout warrior" comments, I'm guessing you have a bias that you are having a hard time overcoming.

How do you think he did his first two years in the league? Try taking away your pre-draft bias and give your fair assessement.

Had no predraft bias towards Hawk although I wanted Vernon Davis instead.

As for the Big 10 their bowl record speaks for itself and problems with speed.

Hawk's first 2 years were solid but unspectacular. Improved in pass coverage. Possess great closing speed once the ball carrier is identified. Given the draft position and the hype saying, "Hawk was the safest pick in the draft" and the Saints almost taking Hawk, I expected Urlacher type impact.

Suffice to say, Hawk has not reached Urlacher type production and was called out by Coach Moss for lack of big plays.

Hopefully the scheme elevates Hawk's so-called ability to make big plays

[cheesner]

Hawk's first 2 years were solid but unspectacular. Improved in pass coverage. Possess great closing speed once the ball carrier is identified. Given the draft position and the hype saying, "Hawk was the safest pick in the draft" and the Saints almost taking Hawk, I expected Urlacher type impact.

Suffice to say, Hawk has not reached Urlacher type production and was called out by Coach Moss for lack of big plays.

Hopefully the scheme elevates Hawk's so-called ability to make big plays

Where would the Urlacher impact type player have come from? TT can't just magically pull these guys from his ass? (please no gay TT jokes) 2006 draft was one of the worst in a long time. You can argue Ngata would have been a better pick and Cutler would have also (though un-needed pick). But where the hell is the Urlacher impact player? How can you hold TT to that when it wasn't even a possibility?

Personally, if the draft were re-held today, I think AJ is still the pick.

Here is the rest of the 1st round of 2006:

A.J. Hawk
Vernon Davis
Michael Huff
Donte Whitner
Ernie Sims
Matt Leinart
Jay Cutler
Haloti Ngata
Kamerion Wimbley
Brodrick Bunkley
Tye Hill
Jason Allen
Chad Greenway
Bobby Carpenter
Antonio Cromartie
Tamba Hali
Laurence Maroney
Manny Lawson
Davin Joseph
Johnathan Joseph
Santonio Holmes
John McCargo
DeAngelo Williams
Marcedes Lewis
Nick Mangold
Joseph Addai
Kelly Jennings
Mathias Kiwanuka

[Waldo]

"Hawk was the safest pick in the draft" and the Saints almost taking Hawk, I expected Urlacher type impact.

In fact if you look at that draft, I agree, Hawk was one of the safest picks in the draft.

Mario Williams - best pick in first
Reggie Bush - not lived up to hype
Vince Young - bust
D'Brickashaw Ferguson - took a few years, he looks good now
A. J. Hawk - solid but unspectacular
Vernon Davis - bust
Michael Huff - bust
Donte Whitner - solid but unspectacular
Ernie Sims - no better than Hawk
Matt Leinart - bust
Jay Cutler - We already had AR
Haloti Ngata - I'd take him over Hawk
Kamerion Wimbley - bust
Brodrick Bunkley - Took a few years, I'd take him over Hawk
Tye Hill - bust
Jason Allen - bust
Chad Greenway - I'd rather have Hawk
Bobby Carpenter - bust
Antonio Cromartie - been to a pro bowl, but terrible in '08
Tamba Hali - solid but unspectacular, not worth a first
Laurence Maroney - bust
Manny Lawson - bust
Davin Joseph - very solid G (definitely not worth #5)
Johnathan Joseph - nothing special
Santonio Holmes - Very good WR, we got a better one later
John McCargo - bust
DeAngelo Williams - took a few years, but he's solid
Marcedes Lewis - Nothing special
Nick Mangold - very good C (not worth #5)
Joseph Addai - OK running back
Kelly Jennings - bust
Mathias Kiwanuka - decent pass rusher

What first rounders would you rather have over Hawk from that year?

[sharpe1027]

What first rounders would you rather have over Hawk from that year?

It says ALOT, when you have a hard time knocking a pick after using all the hindsight knowledge you can muster.

If only it were that easy, then we could all get paid the big $$ to be an NFL GM...

[mngolf19]

[quote="Waldo

Chad Greenway - I'd rather have Hawk
What first rounders would you rather have over Hawk from that year?[/quote]

As a Vikes fan, in the games I've watched Hawk in, and articles I've read this week, I'd rather have Greenway. But that's just me.

[Waldo]

Chad Greenway - I'd rather have Hawk
What first rounders would you rather have over Hawk from that year?

As a Vikes fan, in the games I've watched Hawk in, and articles I've read this week, I'd rather have Greenway. But that's just me.

I think that really is just you. Greenway is just as solid but unspectacular as Hawk. At least Hawk has a cool name.

[HarveyWallbangers]

As a Vikes fan, in the games I've watched Hawk in, and articles I've read this week, I'd rather have Greenway. But that's just me.

We'll see. Greenway was injured in year one. In year two, I would have taken Hawk. In year three, I would have taken Greenway. Overall, I think Hawk has had a slightly better career, but Greenway is coming off a better year. Of course, Hawk played hurt and it helps to have Pat Williams and Kevin Williams keeping OL off you. I think all of Minnesota's LBs look better than they are (no offense) because of those two. Heck, E.J. Henderson (who I think is a very good player) went down last year and they barely missed a beat.

[mngolf19]

As a Vikes fan, in the games I've watched Hawk in, and articles I've read this week, I'd rather have Greenway. But that's just me.

We'll see. Greenway was injured in year one. In year two, I would have taken Hawk. In year three, I would have taken Greenway. Overall, I think Hawk has had a slightly better career, but Greenway is coming off a better year. Of course, Hawk played hurt and it helps to have Pat Williams and Kevin Williams keeping OL off you. I think all of Minnesota's LBs look better than they are (no offense) because of those two. Heck, E.J. Henderson (who I think is a very good player) went down last year and they barely missed a beat.

I hear ya Harv, but Greenway plays outside so I don't know how much the Wall helped him overall. Obviously they helped Mr. 4th string who played in the middle after Henderson. Your right though, this should be the defining year for both if both are healthy.

[KYPack]

Ngata is the only guy we cudda shudda.

He had knee miseries and was thought to be a gamble. Solid rookie year, then look out nurse. If he keeps going he's the best first round guy from that draft.

Waldo, the other OSU linebacker is Barbie Carpenter, not Bobby Carpenter.

[mngolf19]

Chad Greenway - I'd rather have Hawk
What first rounders would you rather have over Hawk from that year?

As a Vikes fan, in the games I've watched Hawk in, and articles I've read this week, I'd rather have Greenway. But that's just me.

I think that really is just you. Greenway is just as solid but unspectacular as Hawk. At least Hawk has a cool name.

I'll give you the name. Helps to have a good LB type name. Greenway works for MN as he is sort of "local". If they are both healthy this year, we should be able to see if one is better or not.

[Rastak]

Chad Greenway - I'd rather have Hawk
What first rounders would you rather have over Hawk from that year?

As a Vikes fan, in the games I've watched Hawk in, and articles I've read this week, I'd rather have Greenway. But that's just me.

I think that really is just you. Greenway is just as solid but unspectacular as Hawk. At least Hawk has a cool name.

You go ahead and enjoy the cool name....LOL.


Seriously though, Greenway looks outstanding at times, solid mainly and like most players, not so good on a rare occasion.

How many Vike games do you catch Waldo? Serious question. I sometimes can't really evaluate some Packer players as well as I like because I don't have NFL Sunday ticket anymore and am a Viking season ticket holder. I only see maybe 5 games in their entirety.

I like Hawk, I think Greenway has really stepped up. Who's better? Not sure at this point...pretty close I would guess. Hawk sure didn't play well when I watched him last year and I saw about every snap Greenway was on the field. He's pretty solid. I agree with some folks here Hawk played hurt all year, but then I have to question why you trot out a guy with what was reported to be a torn groin. Is the depth that bad?

[Gunakor]

Chad Greenway - I'd rather have Hawk
What first rounders would you rather have over Hawk from that year?

As a Vikes fan, in the games I've watched Hawk in, and articles I've read this week, I'd rather have Greenway. But that's just me.

I think that really is just you. Greenway is just as solid but unspectacular as Hawk. At least Hawk has a cool name.

You go ahead and enjoy the cool name....LOL.


Seriously though, Greenway looks outstanding at times, solid mainly and like most players, not so good on a rare occasion.

How many Vike games do you catch Waldo? Serious question. I sometimes can't really evaluate some Packer players as well as I like because I don't have NFL Sunday ticket anymore and am a Viking season ticket holder. I only see maybe 5 games in their entirety.

I like Hawk, I think Greenway has really stepped up. Who's better? Not sure at this point...pretty close I would guess. Hawk sure didn't play well when I watched him last year and I saw about every snap Greenway was on the field. He's pretty solid. I agree with some folks here Hawk played hurt all year, but then I have to question why you trot out a guy with what was reported to be a torn groin. Is the depth that bad?

Next in line was Desmond Bishop. I like him in run support, but he's one of the biggest liabilities in coverage of all our LB's IMO. The put him in last year, and in the very first snap he gave up a TD trying to cover... well, you know the story. It was against your Vikings.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

When a guy who runs for 750 yards his rookie year, then 850 the next with averages of 4.3 and 4.5, who was a special teams player of the week, NFL player of the week, who rushed for 244 yards in 07 playoffs (2 games) is labeled a bust the discussion has officially gone overboard.

[Partial]

When a guy who runs for 750 yards his rookie year, then 850 the next with averages of 4.3 and 4.5, who was a special teams player of the week, NFL player of the week, who rushed for 244 yards in 07 playoffs (2 games) is labeled a bust the discussion has officially gone overboard.

We agree on something :D This list is A) whack B) far too early imo

[Waldo]

Ngata is the only guy we cudda shudda.

He had knee miseries and was thought to be a gamble. Solid rookie year, then look out nurse. If he keeps going he's the best first round guy from that draft.

Waldo, the other OSU linebacker is Barbie Carpenter, not Bobby Carpenter.

Super Mario?

Charlie made a solid pick.

[Gunakor]

When a guy who runs for 750 yards his rookie year, then 850 the next with averages of 4.3 and 4.5, who was a special teams player of the week, NFL player of the week, who rushed for 244 yards in 07 playoffs (2 games) is labeled a bust the discussion has officially gone overboard.

If you are talking about Reggie Bush, it never said he was a bust. It clearly used the word bust for players they rate as busts. Next to Bush's name it says Hasn't lived up to the hype.

My apologies if you were referring to someone other than Reggie Bush.

[Lurker64]

When a guy who runs for 750 yards his rookie year, then 850 the next with averages of 4.3 and 4.5, who was a special teams player of the week, NFL player of the week, who rushed for 244 yards in 07 playoffs (2 games) is labeled a bust the discussion has officially gone overboard.

If you are talking about Reggie Bush, it never said he was a bust. It clearly used the word bust for players they rate as busts. Next to Bush's name it says Hasn't lived up to the hype.

My apologies if you were referring to someone other than Reggie Bush.

I believe he was talking about Laurence Maroney, who I understand the Pats are very down on (as he missed virtually all of last season due to injury) but was actually productive in his first two years. I don't know if it it's fair to call him a bust, but I'd rather have Hawk than Maroney.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

When a guy who runs for 750 yards his rookie year, then 850 the next with averages of 4.3 and 4.5, who was a special teams player of the week, NFL player of the week, who rushed for 244 yards in 07 playoffs (2 games) is labeled a bust the discussion has officially gone overboard.

If you are talking about Reggie Bush, it never said he was a bust. It clearly used the word bust for players they rate as busts. Next to Bush's name it says Hasn't lived up to the hype.

My apologies if you were referring to someone other than Reggie Bush.

Saints..playoff games?

C'mon Gunakor.

[Gunakor]

When a guy who runs for 750 yards his rookie year, then 850 the next with averages of 4.3 and 4.5, who was a special teams player of the week, NFL player of the week, who rushed for 244 yards in 07 playoffs (2 games) is labeled a bust the discussion has officially gone overboard.

If you are talking about Reggie Bush, it never said he was a bust. It clearly used the word bust for players they rate as busts. Next to Bush's name it says Hasn't lived up to the hype.

My apologies if you were referring to someone other than Reggie Bush.

Saints..playoff games?

C'mon Gunakor.

Lost to the Bears in the NFC Championship game. 2 playoff games that year. Wasn't that 2007?

Edit: Looked it up. January 2007. So again, my apologies if you meant someone else.

[Waldo]

When a guy who runs for 750 yards his rookie year, then 850 the next with averages of 4.3 and 4.5, who was a special teams player of the week, NFL player of the week, who rushed for 244 yards in 07 playoffs (2 games) is labeled a bust the discussion has officially gone overboard.

If you are talking about Reggie Bush, it never said he was a bust. It clearly used the word bust for players they rate as busts. Next to Bush's name it says Hasn't lived up to the hype.

My apologies if you were referring to someone other than Reggie Bush.

I believe he was talking about Laurence Maroney, who I understand the Pats are very down on (as he missed virtually all of last season due to injury) but was actually productive in his first two years. I don't know if it it's fair to call him a bust, but I'd rather have Hawk than Maroney.

He's certainly not playing up to 1st rd RB standards, not even close.

Pats fans are VERY down on him, and willing to dump him to clear up cap space if need be.

[Fritz]

When a guy who runs for 750 yards his rookie year, then 850 the next with averages of 4.3 and 4.5, who was a special teams player of the week, NFL player of the week, who rushed for 244 yards in 07 playoffs (2 games) is labeled a bust the discussion has officially gone overboard.

If you are talking about Reggie Bush, it never said he was a bust. It clearly used the word bust for players they rate as busts. Next to Bush's name it says Hasn't lived up to the hype.

My apologies if you were referring to someone other than Reggie Bush.

I believe he was talking about Laurence Maroney, who I understand the Pats are very down on (as he missed virtually all of last season due to injury) but was actually productive in his first two years. I don't know if it it's fair to call him a bust, but I'd rather have Hawk than Maroney.

He's certainly not playing up to 1st rd RB standards, not even close.

Pats fans are VERY down on him, and willing to dump him to clear up cap space if need be.

I wonder if the Packers want to take a dump...

[KYPack]

Ngata is the only guy we cudda shudda.

He had knee miseries and was thought to be a gamble. Solid rookie year, then look out nurse. If he keeps going he's the best first round guy from that draft.

Waldo, the other OSU linebacker is Barbie Carpenter, not Bobby Carpenter.

Super Mario?

Charlie made a solid pick.

Oh yeah, he's the other guy in the discussion, for sure. I'm a little biased, I see Ngata live once a season. He's a special guy, too. If he stays healthy, he may surpass the Super One, although it's real impossible to equate those two jobs.

[Lurker64]

He's certainly not playing up to 1st rd RB standards, not even close.

Pats fans are VERY down on him, and willing to dump him to clear up cap space if need be.

I think it would be more fair to call him a "disappointment" than a "bust" at this point. To me, "bust" implies somewhat catastrophic failure.

[SnakeLH2006]

Chad Greenway - I'd rather have Hawk
What first rounders would you rather have over Hawk from that year?

As a Vikes fan, in the games I've watched Hawk in, and articles I've read this week, I'd rather have Greenway. But that's just me.

I think that really is just you. Greenway is just as solid but unspectacular as Hawk. At least Hawk has a cool name.

HAHAHHAA!! Snake is pissed...you almost had it word for word and beat me to it. Good post Waldo!

Hawk will be ok, but doubt he EVER lives up to the hype....maybe Great White Hype...as I remember watching the draft unfold at my buddy's house (a black dude) as he kept saying Hawk is overhyped cuz he's white. Now Snake is white too, yet I disagreed based on his Big Ten hype/accolades/pedigree, etc. yet now looking back, I won't say he's a bust, but maybe way overhyped and he is what he is.....He's had several seasons to play up to the standard of what AJ Hawk is supposed to be, but perhaps it was all hype. Regardless he's serviceable and assignment sure except when he gets roasted in coverage by TE's. Note to new Packer D coaches...stop that shit and blitz him some more as he did that well in college.

Snake's Take:

Is Hawk half the player he was touted to be. Debatable.

Is he pretty good and does he have a chance to be a playmaker? Yes, but depends on the scheme as he is tough as shit and I'd love more players to be that tough and not cause waves with media BS.

He's ok, but hardly the player he was touted to be.

[Partial]

Greenway looked like a very nice player this year. I'm confident Hawk can be that good when healthy. He was that was in his second season imo. Something wasn't right last year, either the added bulk or the injuries.

[Gunakor]

He's had several seasons to play up to the standard of what AJ Hawk is supposed to be, but perhaps it was all hype.

I'm actually holding out hope that it was all scheme. That Dom Capers will identify and utilize Hawks strengths better than Bob Sanders did.

[Fritz]

He's certainly not playing up to 1st rd RB standards, not even close.

Pats fans are VERY down on him, and willing to dump him to clear up cap space if need be.

I think it would be more fair to call him a "disappointment" than a "bust" at this point. To me, "bust" implies somewhat catastrophic failure.

To me, "bust" implies Dolly Parton.

[cpk1994]

When a guy who runs for 750 yards his rookie year, then 850 the next with averages of 4.3 and 4.5, who was a special teams player of the week, NFL player of the week, who rushed for 244 yards in 07 playoffs (2 games) is labeled a bust the discussion has officially gone overboard.

If you are talking about Reggie Bush, it never said he was a bust. It clearly used the word bust for players they rate as busts. Next to Bush's name it says Hasn't lived up to the hype.

My apologies if you were referring to someone other than Reggie Bush.

I believe he was talking about Laurence Maroney, who I understand the Pats are very down on (as he missed virtually all of last season due to injury) but was actually productive in his first two years. I don't know if it it's fair to call him a bust, but I'd rather have Hawk than Maroney.

He's certainly not playing up to 1st rd RB standards, not even close.

Pats fans are VERY down on him, and willing to dump him to clear up cap space if need be.

I wonder if the Packers want to take a dump...I thought they already did that with Najeh Davenport? :lol:

[Fritz]

When a guy who runs for 750 yards his rookie year, then 850 the next with averages of 4.3 and 4.5, who was a special teams player of the week, NFL player of the week, who rushed for 244 yards in 07 playoffs (2 games) is labeled a bust the discussion has officially gone overboard.

If you are talking about Reggie Bush, it never said he was a bust. It clearly used the word bust for players they rate as busts. Next to Bush's name it says Hasn't lived up to the hype.

My apologies if you were referring to someone other than Reggie Bush.

I believe he was talking about Laurence Maroney, who I understand the Pats are very down on (as he missed virtually all of last season due to injury) but was actually productive in his first two years. I don't know if it it's fair to call him a bust, but I'd rather have Hawk than Maroney.

He's certainly not playing up to 1st rd RB standards, not even close.

Pats fans are VERY down on him, and willing to dump him to clear up cap space if need be.

I wonder if the Packers want to take a dump...I thought they already did that with Najeh Davenport? :lol:

I must confess, that still makes me laugh. Yeah, I'm mad at this woman so I think I'll drop a load in her laundry basket!! That'll show her!!

[3irty1]

Greenway looked like a very nice player this year. I'm confident Hawk can be that good when healthy. He was that was in his second season imo. Something wasn't right last year, either the added bulk or the injuries.

Do we know exactly how much he put on? It appears he really packed it on.

[red]

heres a perfect article for this thread

its from florio on the sporting news. its his, bust/ not a bust, take on the 06 draft

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=538191

his take. aj hawk.......


not a bust

[Partial]

Greenway looked like a very nice player this year. I'm confident Hawk can be that good when healthy. He was that was in his second season imo. Something wasn't right last year, either the added bulk or the injuries.

Do we know exactly how much he put on? It appears he really packed it on.

He didn't look any bigger to me from the typical football view on TV, but you can't really tell unless you get up close.

I've heard from this board that he put on a substantial amount. I don't really understand that though, because in theory his added muscle should make him faster (though the body breaks down easier if its pushing the limit body can handle -- which with Hawk's height is probably pretty likely).

[Packnut]

Agreed. Maybe the Hawk apologists will stop and the dude finally lives up to the hype.

Judging by your "Hawk was overrated in college because of the overrated Big 10 and another example of a workout warrior" comments, I'm guessing you have a bias that you are having a hard time overcoming.

How do you think he did his first two years in the league? Try taking away your pre-draft bias and give your fair assessement. I'd say he was good his first two years. He certainly wasn't an elite playmaker, but he was good (and in a lot of ways that don't get noticed). Certainly, not a bust. Now, I think he had a poor third year. The most reasonable explanation seems to be that the injury affected him more than he let on. And I don't buy the stuff about him saying he was 100%. That's just being a warrior and leader. If he had said he was playing injured, people would rip him for making excuses. Pretty obvious in the level of his play in year 2 and year 3 that he wasn't the same physically.

I'd agree with you he was above average his first two seasons, but the question is was his play worthy of the 5th pick in the draft. That has to be a resounding NO. The guy simply put is not a play-maker. Some guys have the "IT" factor whether it be a monster hit or tackles for loss, A.J. does'nt have it.