Duke Preston Signed

[Waldo]

The Green Bay Packers have made a big addition to their offensive line, agreeing to terms on a free agent contract with 6-5, 326-pound guard / center Duke Preston, according to agent Craig Domann.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/packers.html

That's pretty cool. He's got good raw ability and is a 4 position lineman (no LT), at worst the first guy off the bench interior guy, at best our starting RT.

Wells is good as gone.

[Lurker64]

Sweet, our first free true free agent signing. (I believe the Smith was a cut).

[3irty1]

From his Wikipedia page:


Duke is widely believed to be the best golfer in the NFL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Preston

[Waldo]

From his Wikipedia page:


Duke is widely believed to be the best golfer in the NFL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Preston

Too bad Longwell wasn't still around. That guy played a mean game too. :lol:

[red]

good news

sounds like a nice pickup

is he a road grader type at that size, or is he a zone blocking guy?

could this be a sign that we're starting to ditch the zbs?

[mission]

Good, this is a nice signing.

I don't see any golf reference on his Wiki, but it looks like Waldo is in there editing the page as we speak.

I always wondered what kind of people actually contributed to Wikipedias... I think I have my answer now. :D

[oregonpackfan]

His flexibility and athleticism sound impressive.

With a lineman signing like this, I guess that means the Packers won't be drafting Max Unger from the Oregon Ducks next month. Among Unger's assets, NFL scouts claimed Unger was capable of playing all 5 OL positions at the NFL level.

[Waldo]

good news

sounds like a nice pickup

is he a road grader type at that size, or is he a zone blocking guy?

could this be a sign that we're starting to ditch the zbs?

Both, he's a Sitton type, he's really big, but has the athleticism to be a ZBS guy.

[Waldo]

His flexibility and athleticism sound impressive.

With a lineman signing like this, I guess that means the Packers won't be drafting Max Unger from the Oregon Ducks next month. Among Unger's assets, NFL scouts claimed Unger was capable of playing all 5 OL positions at the NFL level.

Unger > Preston

I doubt this would stop us from taking Max. If Colledge is going to end up at LT eventually, Max is the best replacement in the draft for him at LG.

I think that Duke will compete to start at RT (he has starting experience there), if not he competes with Spitz and Wells at C. If Wells does not win the C spot, he's a goner, both Spitz and Duke have far more bench value, they can back up the entire interior as the primary backup.

[Waldo]

Just about every lineman TT has drafted or otherwise acquired since we started running the ZBS had a SS<4.6 and a 3C<7.6, aside from Spitz, who was close, his cone was a little slow. Duke is no exception. Those numbers are exceptionally good for a lineman, you can count on one hand the number of guys that meet that criteria in this draft per combine #'s (not sure about the pro days and guys not invited to the combine).

And yes, Unger is one of those few (Eric Wood is another). :wink:

[GoPackGo]

You have to like this signing. Duke is a far cry from Adrian Klemm and it sounds as if C Scott Wells might be demoted soon :)

[Joemailman]

Bad news for Tony Moll.

[Fritz]

I hope that in practice when he gets walked back Campen yells "Use the force, Duke!"

:rs:

[sharpe1027]

You have to like this signing. Duke is a far cry from Adrian Klemm and it sounds as if C Scott Wells might be demoted soon :)

Yeah, I was already thinking Wells was in danger with the guys we had. You have to think he's going to have to show something extra this year to survive.

[Fritz]

There seems to be room to draft one early-round (rounds 1 - 3) and one late round (6 and 7) offensive linemen yet. Moll is replaceable, and this is Barbre's make-or-break year, I think.

Plus Breno Giacominiminimenomi is hobbling, and Clifton's had his annual surgical clean-up.

[run pMc]

Honestly, my first thought was they were going to try him a RT, trotting out a lineup of Clifton, Colledge, Spitz, Sitton and Preston.

Then I read this:

Preston, 26, did not begin the season as a starter. He took over for Melvin Fowler after Fowler injured his elbow, and started the last 11 games. He did not play particularly well, struggling against the likes of Cleveland's Shaun Rogers, the New York Jets' Kris Jenkins and New England's Vince Wilfork.

Sounds like a developmental player.
Whatever.
Good for them.

[pittstang5]

You have to like this signing. Duke is a far cry from Adrian Klemm and it sounds as if C Scott Wells might be demoted soon :)

Yeah, I was already thinking Wells was in danger with the guys we had. You have to think he's going to have to show something extra this year to survive.

I too think that maybe Wells might be on is way out. He's a decent center, but I think Spitz is better. He can play guard or at least he did under the Sherman regime, but I think Spitz, Colledge and possibly the younger guys could step up and play better as well. Wells definitely can't play any of the tackle positions, something that alot of the other players behind him on the roster can. It might just come down to a pure numbers game and Wells might be gone.

Anyone know when his contract is up?

[KYPack]

From his Wikipedia page:


Duke is widely believed to be the best golfer in the NFL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Preston

That is wild.

I've never seen an NFL lineman who can play golf well.

As Waldo indicated, usually kickers are real good. The mechanics of kicking are very similar to a good golf swing.

Isaac Curtis, the premier WR that played for the Bengals, was one of the shittiest golfers I've ever seen. Guy couldn't hit it out of his shadow.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Honestly, my first thought was they were going to try him a RT, trotting out a lineup of Clifton, Colledge, Spitz, Sitton and Preston.

Then I read this:

Preston, 26, did not begin the season as a starter. He took over for Melvin Fowler after Fowler injured his elbow, and started the last 11 games. He did not play particularly well, struggling against the likes of Cleveland's Shaun Rogers, the New York Jets' Kris Jenkins and New England's Vince Wilfork.

Sounds like a developmental player.
Whatever.
Good for them.

Well, it's not hard to see anybody struggling against two of the best DTs in the game, and one of the most talented DTs in the game. Also, he struggled against those big DTs while playing OC, and I'm not sure that means he can't play RT--where he wouldn't be facing those types of players. Is Buffalo a ZBS team?

[Waldo]

From his Wikipedia page:


Duke is widely believed to be the best golfer in the NFL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Preston

That is wild.

I've never seen an NFL lineman who can play golf well.

As Waldo indicated, usually kickers are real good. The mechanics of kicking are very similar to a good golf swing.

Isaac Curtis, the premier WR that played for the Bengals, was one of the shittiest golfers I've ever seen. Guy couldn't hit it out of his shadow.

I worked as a golf course for a while when I was in college (one of those golf neighborhood places, a house in that neighborhood is where the infamous hot tub incident with Chmura happened (my younger bro was friends with and hung out with that group of kids, but wasn't there at the time)). NEway the Majik man was there golfing one day, and he is absolutely god awful at it, with a wicked slice. Granted he was pretty hammered (I was selling him the booze), but still, absolutely terrible at golf.

Tausher is actually pretty mean with the stick, as is Harris. They used to have this Packers golf challenge (I forget the details), and the one I watched had Favre, Longwell, Tausher, Harris, and Rodgers. Of course Longwell dominated, but Tausher and Harris were surprisingly good. Aaron sucked at the time.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I worked as a golf course for a while when I was in college

Damn! That must have been rough.

[Zool]

I worked as a golf course for a while when I was in college

Damn! That must have been rough.

Thats a lot of balls in your holes Waldo.

[Gunakor]

You have to like this signing. Duke is a far cry from Adrian Klemm and it sounds as if C Scott Wells might be demoted soon :)

Yeah, I was already thinking Wells was in danger with the guys we had. You have to think he's going to have to show something extra this year to survive.

I'd hope we'd keep wells as the backup C at least. Should something happen to Spitz we could do far worse for a backup than a guy who has starting experience and is intelligent enough to make the correct line calls on a consistent basis.

[Waldo]

You have to like this signing. Duke is a far cry from Adrian Klemm and it sounds as if C Scott Wells might be demoted soon :)

Yeah, I was already thinking Wells was in danger with the guys we had. You have to think he's going to have to show something extra this year to survive.

I'd hope we'd keep wells as the backup C at least. Should something happen to Spitz we could do far worse for a backup than a guy who has starting experience and is intelligent enough to make the correct line calls on a consistent basis.

A CO (center only) has almost zero roster value if he is not starting. If we are going to keep a CO, he should be kept on the PS (we do, Carvalho). If Wells is not the starter, he will not be on the team.

[wist43]

You have to like this signing. Duke is a far cry from Adrian Klemm and it sounds as if C Scott Wells might be demoted soon :)

Yeah, I was already thinking Wells was in danger with the guys we had. You have to think he's going to have to show something extra this year to survive.

I thought all you ZBS guys thought Wells was "da bomb"??? You know me... I"ve always loved those "Fightin Midgets" :)

[Waldo]

You have to like this signing. Duke is a far cry from Adrian Klemm and it sounds as if C Scott Wells might be demoted soon :)

Yeah, I was already thinking Wells was in danger with the guys we had. You have to think he's going to have to show something extra this year to survive.

I thought all you ZBS guys thought Wells was "da bomb"??? You know me... I"ve always loved those "Fightin Midgets" :)

Do you have any idea of what attributes teams look for in ZBS lineman?

[wist43]

You have to like this signing. Duke is a far cry from Adrian Klemm and it sounds as if C Scott Wells might be demoted soon :)

Yeah, I was already thinking Wells was in danger with the guys we had. You have to think he's going to have to show something extra this year to survive.

I thought all you ZBS guys thought Wells was "da bomb"??? You know me... I"ve always loved those "Fightin Midgets" :)

Do you have any idea of what attributes teams look for in ZBS lineman?

Yeah, mobile midgets... always hated the ZBS, always will. No secret I prefer power football. Just my perference... I'm stuck with the ZBS... we've argued this thing to death long b/4 you got here Waldo.

[Tarlam!]

I'm stuck with the ZBS... we've argued this thing to death long b/4 you got here Waldo.

This is true, we have.

But we haven't really argued whether on not we actually PLAY the ZBS, which don't believe we do. Not effectively anyways.

Cliffy is sheit at cut blocking, Tausch strugglles and our inside OL can't open gaps consistantly on run plays.

It's a half hearted ZBS at best.

[Waldo]

You have to like this signing. Duke is a far cry from Adrian Klemm and it sounds as if C Scott Wells might be demoted soon :)

Yeah, I was already thinking Wells was in danger with the guys we had. You have to think he's going to have to show something extra this year to survive.

I thought all you ZBS guys thought Wells was "da bomb"??? You know me... I"ve always loved those "Fightin Midgets" :)

Do you have any idea of what attributes teams look for in ZBS lineman?

Yeah, mobile midgets... always hated the ZBS, always will. No secret I prefer power football. Just my perference... I'm stuck with the ZBS... we've argued this thing to death long b/4 you got here Waldo.

I don't really care how much you've debated the ZBS here, I've debated it to death elsewhere too, 95%+ of Packer fans, even the so called "informed" fans, have no idea what they are talking about.

Mobile midgets is 100% totally and completely false. You have no idea of what you are talking about. They look for the biggest guys that are athletic enough. Problem is that big guys that are athletic enough are extremely rare, whereas the little guys that are athletic enough are much more common and not as valuable to the teams that value size over athleticism.

Little guys are less than ideal prospects for ZBS lines too. Athletic big guys are valuable to everybody. When looking at less than ideal prospects, power lines can live with the reduced athleticism of less than ideal big guys, ZBS lines can live with the smaller size of less than ideal athletic guys. They are still less than ideal.

We are always seeking the Duke Prestons and Josh Sittons, guys that are quite large yet athletic enough to play in a ZBS. You can count on one hand the # of guys in each draft that are both large and athletic enough to play in a ZBS, since those guys are valuable to all teams, they are hard to get your hands on.

The reasons to run a ZBS has absolutely nothing to do with easier to find lineman. Athletic lineman have another trait, they are typically good pass blockers. If you build a line of the best pass blockers you can get your hands on, chances are the running scheme for them to excel in is the ZBS. The old style WCO is used zone based running. Athletic pass blockers is what they would seek in a line. The ZBS at the pro level is a specific system of zone blocking that maximizes the value of the athleticism of the good pass blockers, and is a natural pairing to the WCO. As the NFL becomes more Urban Meyerized and the spread attack grows at the pro level, pass blocking becomes more and more valuable, and more and more teams are switching to the ZBS every year.

[rbaloha1]

Denver Broncos zbs coached by Alex Gibb was the model zbs -- smaller mobile lineman able to reach the second level.

Jags, a Gibb disciple was brought in to implement the scheme. Lineman were drafted to fit the scheme -- Colledge, Spitz & Moll.

Jags departed. IMO the new staff is unable to properly coach the zbs. The o tackles are unable to cut block consistently. Lineman are flip flopped too much.

Thrilled MM is adjusting the scheme with bigger linemen that are mobile -- i.e. Sitton and Preston.

Preston is a wonderful value pick and should compete for the right tackle position.

[Waldo]

Denver Broncos zbs coached by Alex Gibb was the model zbs -- mobile lineman able to reach the second level.

Fixed

MM is not "fixing" the ZBS. They had to draft a base of guys to begin with, you can fill all the holes with workable guys in one draft, but to fill in with ideal guys takes longer, they are much more rare and difficult to find. Now that we have a base of competant guys, TT has moved on from looking for any old lineman that will work, to looking for the biggest, strongest lineman that will work, which are much more difficult to find, and are more of a slow trickle than a bunch you can grab at once.

Teaching zone blocking is incredibly easy, it is lineman 101 from HS on (though cut blocking isn't as common until the NCAA level). Not sure where you get this idea that only Jags could teach it, and our current coaches can't. That is totally false. People think that it is this crazy voodoo scheme that is hard to understand, which is very incorrect, it is possibly the most basic scheme out there.

[Gunakor]

I'm stuck with the ZBS... we've argued this thing to death long b/4 you got here Waldo.

This is true, we have.

But we haven't really argued whether on not we actually PLAY the ZBS, which don't believe we do. Not effectively anyways.

Cliffy is sheit at cut blocking, Tausch strugglles and our inside OL can't open gaps consistantly on run plays.

It's a half hearted ZBS at best.

It's hybrid ZBS. We mix zone blocking with power blocking. We do both.

Guys like Josh Sitton and Duke Preston, who are both athletic enough for zone blocking yet big and strong enough for power blocking, are perfect additions to the running style we run. I don't know if that will translate to better blocking on the football field, but I'm anxious to find out. I'm excited about the potential these guys bring to our run game.

[Lurker64]

It's hybrid ZBS. We mix zone blocking with power blocking. We do both.


I believe you can count on the fingers of one head the number of teams in the NFL that don't use some zone runs as well as some power runs.

[Patler]

I'd hope we'd keep wells as the backup C at least. Should something happen to Spitz we could do far worse for a backup than a guy who has starting experience and is intelligent enough to make the correct line calls on a consistent basis.

A CO (center only) has almost zero roster value if he is not starting. If we are going to keep a CO, he should be kept on the PS (we do, Carvalho). If Wells is not the starter, he will not be on the team.

As a backup, I'm not sure Wells is a "center only". He spent a half year starting for the Packers at guard. I don't like him as a guard, certainly not as a starter, but in a reserve role where a guy is expected to have some versatility, Wells could provide it.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see him traded at draft time. I agree that if he isn't starting he is likely gone, not because of a lack of versatility but because TT will go with a younger guy with more potential.

[rbaloha1]

The zbs is not widely used in college f-ball due to the proliferation of spread offenses which makes evaluating offensive talent more difficult for the NFL. This is for another thread.

A previous o-line coach Larry Breightol was not retained due to zero experience in actually coaching the zbs (this was straight from Breightol). Yes, the concepts are easy to understand but actually coaching it according to Gibbs style is another matter.

Coach Campen's exposure to the zbs is from Jaggs. Looking at the current state of the Packers zbs the current coaching staff is not getting good results from the players. Execution is still inconsistent. This is not what MM envisioned.

The zbs conceptually is easy to understand but teaching the correct fundamentals is not. I have heard Larry McCarren call out the o-line staff and players.

[Pack-man]

I worked as a golf course for a while when I was in college

Damn! That must have been rough.

He was the rough.

[KYPack]

I'd hope we'd keep wells as the backup C at least. Should something happen to Spitz we could do far worse for a backup than a guy who has starting experience and is intelligent enough to make the correct line calls on a consistent basis.

A CO (center only) has almost zero roster value if he is not starting. If we are going to keep a CO, he should be kept on the PS (we do, Carvalho). If Wells is not the starter, he will not be on the team.

As a backup, I'm not sure Wells is a "center only". He spent a half year starting for the Packers at guard. I don't like him as a guard, certainly not as a starter, but in a reserve role where a guy is expected to have some versatility, Wells could provide it.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see him traded at draft time. I agree that if he isn't starting he is likely gone, not because of a lack of versatility but because TT will go with a younger guy with more potential.

I think they want Preston to do Moll's job. A back-up at a couple spots. Moll is OK filling in, but he's a disaster when hr starts. Both Moll and Wells gone? Could be, could be.

[Waldo]

The zbs conceptually is easy to understand but teaching the correct fundamentals is not. I have heard Larry McCarren call out the o-line staff and players.

And I've talked to several former NCAA Div 1 lineman and professional scouts, all agree that the Packers OL is fundamentally very technique sharp, much moreso than many of the teams in the NFL. I see that too when I watch them. Their technique is not their weakness.

The only reason a guy like Wells is even playing in the league is that his technique is so ridiculously good. Physically he's an absolutely horrible lineman, but mentally and technique-wise he's very sharp.

MM just did a big coaching purge. Don't you think that if he thought his OL had technique problems and wasn't learning, that he would have fired his OL coach? Or do you think that MM can't evaluate the technical soundness of his players?

[Waldo]

The zbs is not widely used in college f-ball due to the proliferation of spread offenses which makes evaluating offensive talent more difficult for the NFL.

The specific Gibbs basic ball ZBS is very rare, correct, but zone based running schemes are in fact extremely common and many of the NCAA zone based schemes are much more advanced than their pro counterparts, and feature pulling lineman and whatnot as part of specific zone based plays.

[rbaloha1]

The zbs conceptually is easy to understand but teaching the correct fundamentals is not. I have heard Larry McCarren call out the o-line staff and players.


The only reason a guy like Wells is even playing in the league is that his technique is so ridiculously good. Physically he's an absolutely horrible lineman, but mentally and technique-wise he's very sharp.

Wells was drafted by Sherman and is a former wrestler. His technique is excellent for any scheme due to his size limitations and great leverage abilities.

Are you saying Clifton, Tausher and Moll are fundamentally sound in the zbs scheme?

[Dylan McKay]

A couple of years ago we ran the zone scheme in our flag football league. We used short, fat, and agressive 40 year olds as our linemen.

It sucked, no cut blocking allowed.

[rbaloha1]

[quote="Waldo

And I've talked to several former NCAA Div 1 lineman and professional scouts, all agree that the Packers OL is fundamentally very technique sharp, much moreso than many of the teams in the NFL. I see that too when I watch them. Their technique is not their weakness.
[/quote]

Why does MM continually say the Packers o-line's pad level is too high.

[rbaloha1]

The zbs is not widely used in college f-ball due to the proliferation of spread offenses which makes evaluating offensive talent more difficult for the NFL.

The specific Gibbs basic ball ZBS is very rare, correct, but zone based running schemes are in fact extremely common and many of the NCAA zone based schemes are much more advanced than their pro counterparts, and feature pulling lineman and whatnot as part of specific zone based plays.

Please let us know which college teams primarily run zbs.

[Waldo]

The zbs conceptually is easy to understand but teaching the correct fundamentals is not. I have heard Larry McCarren call out the o-line staff and players.


The only reason a guy like Wells is even playing in the league is that his technique is so ridiculously good. Physically he's an absolutely horrible lineman, but mentally and technique-wise he's very sharp.

Wells was drafted by Sherman and is a former wrestler. His technique is excellent for any scheme due to his size limitations and great leverage abilities.

Are you saying Clifton, Tausher and Moll are fundamentally sound in the zbs scheme?

It isn't their technique that is the problem. Clifton and Tausher are not physically capable of executing the technique at a high level. Moll's technique is not the problem, his technique is pretty good. He's not consistent and makes a ton of mistakes, and just plain isn't a very good football player. When he doesn't false start and knows the play being run, and the defense comes at him in a basic way as expected, he does a very good job. He's very bad at handling complex defense and poor at thinking in space (he's awful at the second level, but again, technique is not the problem there).

[Waldo]

The zbs is not widely used in college f-ball due to the proliferation of spread offenses which makes evaluating offensive talent more difficult for the NFL.

The specific Gibbs basic ball ZBS is very rare, correct, but zone based running schemes are in fact extremely common and many of the NCAA zone based schemes are much more advanced than their pro counterparts, and feature pulling lineman and whatnot as part of specific zone based plays.

Please let us know which college teams primarily run zbs.

Wisconsin, Michigan, Iowa, Minnesota, right off the top of my head in the big 10.

Oregon, Cal, Nebraska, Tennessee, Louisville are a few others, and I don't know college ball all that well.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Please let us know which college teams primarily run zbs.

The ZBS is common in college. I could name several teams that run it. Josh Sitton played in the ZBS at Central Florida. Notre Dame runs it. Marion Barber and Laurence Maroney ran behind ZBS schemes at Minnesota. Michigan and West Virginia run it. Those teams run ZBS with spread offenses. College teams run it for some of the same reasons that NFL teams do. It's hard to find big people. It's easier to find a guy like Greg Eslinger (All-American at Minnesota who went virtually unrecruited). It's easier to find a smaller, athletic high school OL that could develop into good ZBS blockers than it is to find the protypical mammoth, smashmouth OL.

[Gunakor]

The zbs is not widely used in college f-ball due to the proliferation of spread offenses which makes evaluating offensive talent more difficult for the NFL.

The specific Gibbs basic ball ZBS is very rare, correct, but zone based running schemes are in fact extremely common and many of the NCAA zone based schemes are much more advanced than their pro counterparts, and feature pulling lineman and whatnot as part of specific zone based plays.

Please let us know which college teams primarily run zbs.

Wisconsin, Michigan, Iowa, Minnesota, right off the top of my head in the big 10.

Careful Waldo. He thinks the Big 10 is very overrated. You might have to come up with a school from the Pac 10 or the SEC or the Big 12 to convince him.

Edit: didn't catch the edit to your post before starting this one.

[Waldo]

Please let us know which college teams primarily run zbs.

The ZBS is common in college. I could name several teams that run it. Josh Sitton played in the ZBS at Central Florida. Notre Dame runs it. Marion Barber and Laurence Maroney ran behind ZBS schemes at Minnesota. Michigan and West Virginia run it. Those teams run ZBS with spread offenses. College teams run it for some of the same reasons that NFL teams do. It's hard to find big people. It's easier to find a guy like Greg Eslinger (All-American at Minnesota who went virtually unrecruited). It's easier to find a smaller, athletic high school OL that could develop into good ZBS blockers than it is to find the protypical mammoth, smashmouth OL.

Kent State too, I just read about a OT/OG we were scouting there (Parrish), they run a ZBS.

[Dylan McKay]

Not to be a smart ass, or pile on but I think most college teams, even in the spread run the zone. Especially more so because they usually have more defensive players in the box than linemen to block. Teams like Texas, Florida like to run a lot of veer. It sort of the same concept, reach block on the play side, cut block or get to the next level on the backside and option off the decision on the unblocked linemen, whether it is the defensive end or the inside tackle.

[Patler]

I'd hope we'd keep wells as the backup C at least. Should something happen to Spitz we could do far worse for a backup than a guy who has starting experience and is intelligent enough to make the correct line calls on a consistent basis.

A CO (center only) has almost zero roster value if he is not starting. If we are going to keep a CO, he should be kept on the PS (we do, Carvalho). If Wells is not the starter, he will not be on the team.

As a backup, I'm not sure Wells is a "center only". He spent a half year starting for the Packers at guard. I don't like him as a guard, certainly not as a starter, but in a reserve role where a guy is expected to have some versatility, Wells could provide it.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see him traded at draft time. I agree that if he isn't starting he is likely gone, not because of a lack of versatility but because TT will go with a younger guy with more potential.

I think they want Preston to do Moll's job. A back-up at a couple spots. Moll is OK filling in, but he's a disaster when hr starts. Both Moll and Wells gone? Could be, could be.

That's what I'm thinking. I'm not sure they are looking at Preston to be a starter in '09, although I wouldn't be surprised to see them give him a shot at RT. More than likely he will be the backup at center to either Wells or Spitz. If Wells keeps the starting job, Spitz will start at guard, and Preston will come in if needed for Wells rather than moving Spitz. If Spitz takes over for Wells, Wells will be gone, and Preston will backup Spitz.

Moll's contract may be working against him. He qualified for an escalator taking his base salary to over $1M. It's not a lot, but TT might think the extra half-million can be better spent elsewhere.

[Zool]

Not to be a smart ass,

Let er rip man. Its all good here.

Also, scale this down and get your av setup.

http://media.canada.com/1785a528-bef3-4f04-af39-9312146bfd98/lukeperry.jpg

[RashanGary]

I like the idea of DC at RT. He played a great game there against the lowly Lions, but still, he looked good. If I had to take a rough guess at the lineup, I'd go something like this:


Clifton or high draft pick
Barbre or Spitz
Spitz, Wells or Preston
Sitton
Colledge

[RashanGary]

Right now, if I had to order the lineman in terms of value to the team (based on my view of quality, age and contract), I would go like this:

Colledge (IMO our best lineman last year and still getting better. Young)
Spitz (solid player. Has a lot of good years ahead)
Sitton (Great college player. Good athlete. Coaches saw something real)

(to me you have to resign both Spitz and Colledge before the season. They're our only two veteran lineman that can play.


Then we have the vets with major warts

Wells (You want to replace him, but he can play this scheme if you have no one esle)
Clifton (old, bad run blocker, but can still protect the blind side)


Then you have the prospects that could easily move ahead of Wells and Clifton or easily be gone:

Preston
Barbre
Giacomini


Obviously we have no stars. We could really use a star to bring the level of the whole group up. We have some prospects, but we have to keep our decent guys here so we're not starting all over again with nothing next year (if they get to UFA, the price goes way up).

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Right now, if I had to order the lineman in terms of value to the team (based on my view of quality, age and contract), I would go like this:

Colledge (IMO our best lineman last year and still getting better. Young)
Spitz (solid player. Has a lot of good years ahead)
Sitton (Great college player. Good athlete. Coaches saw something real)

(to me you have to resign both Spitz and Colledge before the season. They're our only two veteran lineman that can play.


Then we have the vets with major warts

Wells (You want to replace him, but he can play this scheme if you have no one esle)
Clifton (old, bad run blocker, but can still protect the blind side)


Then you have the prospects that could easily move ahead of Wells and Clifton or easily be gone:

Preston
Barbre
Giacomini


Obviously we have no stars. We could really use a star to bring the level of the whole group up. We have some prospects, but we have to keep our decent guys here so we're not starting all over again with nothing next year (if they get to UFA, the price goes way up).

Good post, I agree. I wouldn't mind if our first pick was a OT.

[SnakeLH2006]

From his Wikipedia page:


Duke is widely believed to be the best golfer in the NFL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Preston

Too bad Longwell wasn't still around. That guy played a mean game too. :lol:

Snake's a pretty mean golfer too, yet would bitchslap Longwell if he tried some mulligan BS...Hard to bitchslap a physical beast like Duke when he outweighs ya by 100 lbs.

I think this is a pretty deece TT type signing though, and must be cheap, as the 2 years implies, yet it looks like a project deal as he got his ass beat by many top DL guys last year via the JS article, but noted that he might be our Center??? WTF? That would have to be the biggest center at 6'5" 325 Snake can EVER remember. Dayummm.....

[Guiness]

Right now, if I had to order the lineman in terms of value to the team (based on my view of quality, age and contract), I would go like this:

Colledge (IMO our best lineman last year and still getting better. Young)
Spitz (solid player. Has a lot of good years ahead)
Sitton (Great college player. Good athlete. Coaches saw something real)

(to me you have to resign both Spitz and Colledge before the season. They're our only two veteran lineman that can play.


Then we have the vets with major warts

Wells (You want to replace him, but he can play this scheme if you have no one esle)
Clifton (old, bad run blocker, but can still protect the blind side)


Then you have the prospects that could easily move ahead of Wells and Clifton or easily be gone:

Preston
Barbre
Giacomini


Obviously we have no stars. We could really use a star to bring the level of the whole group up. We have some prospects, but we have to keep our decent guys here so we're not starting all over again with nothing next year (if they get to UFA, the price goes way up).

Things that make ya go Hmmm.

I'm not sure ow Sitton (does he have an NFL start?) ranks ahead of either Wells or Clifton. Wells get the job done, and until unseated, is our starting center. Clifton - well, to steal a good line, he 'knows how to get in the way' Sitton may be the future, but that's a may. As of right now, the other two are the incumbent starters.

[Waldo]

Right now, if I had to order the lineman in terms of value to the team (based on my view of quality, age and contract), I would go like this:

Colledge (IMO our best lineman last year and still getting better. Young)
Spitz (solid player. Has a lot of good years ahead)
Sitton (Great college player. Good athlete. Coaches saw something real)

(to me you have to resign both Spitz and Colledge before the season. They're our only two veteran lineman that can play.


Then we have the vets with major warts

Wells (You want to replace him, but he can play this scheme if you have no one esle)
Clifton (old, bad run blocker, but can still protect the blind side)


Then you have the prospects that could easily move ahead of Wells and Clifton or easily be gone:

Preston
Barbre
Giacomini


Obviously we have no stars. We could really use a star to bring the level of the whole group up. We have some prospects, but we have to keep our decent guys here so we're not starting all over again with nothing next year (if they get to UFA, the price goes way up).

Things that make ya go Hmmm.

I'm not sure ow Sitton (does he have an NFL start?) ranks ahead of either Wells or Clifton. Wells get the job done, and until unseated, is our starting center. Clifton - well, to steal a good line, he 'knows how to get in the way' Sitton may be the future, but that's a may. As of right now, the other two are the incumbent starters.

Give it four months.

Next time we see them, IMO there is a 85%+ chance that Sitton is starting at RG.

Is right now, right now, or is right now the next time that they are seen?

[Joemailman]

Right now, if I had to order the lineman in terms of value to the team (based on my view of quality, age and contract), I would go like this:

Colledge (IMO our best lineman last year and still getting better. Young)
Spitz (solid player. Has a lot of good years ahead)
Sitton (Great college player. Good athlete. Coaches saw something real)

(to me you have to resign both Spitz and Colledge before the season. They're our only two veteran lineman that can play.


Then we have the vets with major warts

Wells (You want to replace him, but he can play this scheme if you have no one esle)
Clifton (old, bad run blocker, but can still protect the blind side)


Then you have the prospects that could easily move ahead of Wells and Clifton or easily be gone:

Preston
Barbre
Giacomini


Obviously we have no stars. We could really use a star to bring the level of the whole group up. We have some prospects, but we have to keep our decent guys here so we're not starting all over again with nothing next year (if they get to UFA, the price goes way up).

Things that make ya go Hmmm.

I'm not sure ow Sitton (does he have an NFL start?) ranks ahead of either Wells or Clifton. Wells get the job done, and until unseated, is our starting center. Clifton - well, to steal a good line, he 'knows how to get in the way' Sitton may be the future, but that's a may. As of right now, the other two are the incumbent starters.

Sitton likely had the RG spot won last year before he was injured, so I can see him projected as a starter. Projecting Wells as a starter just because he's an incumbent might make sense if the Packers had a dominant offense line, but that's not the case. Wells is adequate, but if the Packers are to have significant improvement on the OL, I don't think it will be with Wells as a starter.

[mission]

I ran into Bucs reserve RT Julius Wilson today at the studio and we had some small talk about the draft, Gruden (EVERYONE hated him on the team... EVERYONE he says) and wondered aloud about A.Smith... says the dude is the real deal and and worked out with him a lot in Alabama. He said someone's gonna get a Pro Bowler.

Not that any of this means anything, I just thought it was cool.

(He declined to smoke any weed)

[Packnut]

It's an effort in futility to label what run scheme the Packers use. It is not a pure ZBS. If you go back to the orgins of it, MM and TT wanted to model it after the Bronco's scheme. They found out much to their dismay, that it's easier said than done.

So instead of giving it time, it has now become a mixture. The reason it's pointless to label it is because it DOES'NT work. It is inconsistent at best. What's worse is the large number of minus runs that the Packers have had.

Grant had success only because defenses schemed for Favre and feared the pass more than the run. Proof of that is comparing 2007 and 2008. Take away the "Favre" effect and MM's running game whatever you call it has really been piss poor.

I expect more of the same this season just because I believe it's a McCarthy weakness. Jags leaving hurt more than most realize. As was the case with our previous QB, we will live and die with the arm of Mr Rodgers......

[packrulz]

I don't know why everyone wants to get rid of Wells, he's 6'2", 303lbs, is that small? http://www.packers.com/team/players/wells_scott/ The o-line was a mess last year, due to injury, it was always in a state of flux, they could never stay with the same five guys for more than a game or two, plus, M3 wasn't very committed to the running game anyway. I think opening day the line will be Cliffy/Spitz/Wells/Sitton/Preston, Taucher will probably get his job back at RT when he gets healthy and Preston will be a quality back up. Moll really struggled replacing Taucher, if they cut anyone, it might be him. I think College has a good chance of beating out Clifton for the LT job, Cliffy's knees might be shot. Of course, if TT drafts an OT, that might change everything.

[wist43]

There's different kinds of 6'2", 300 lbs....

I worked with a chick that was 6'2", 300 lbs... she was an ass kicking bitch, but I doubt she could move Pat Williams off the ball.

You hear all this about how Wells was a wrestler, and plays with great leverage... if that were the case, he'd win the majority of snaps, but plain and simple he doesn't.

If he really is 300 lbs, it doesn't translate to the field.

[wist43]

From his Wikipedia page:


Duke is widely believed to be the best golfer in the NFL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Preston

Too bad Longwell wasn't still around. That guy played a mean game too. :lol:

Snake's a pretty mean golfer too, yet would bitchslap Longwell if he tried some mulligan BS...Hard to bitchslap a physical beast like Duke when he outweighs ya by 100 lbs.

I think this is a pretty deece TT type signing though, and must be cheap, as the 2 years implies, yet it looks like a project deal as he got his ass beat by many top DL guys last year via the JS article, but noted that he might be our Center??? WTF? That would have to be the biggest center at 6'5" 325 Snake can EVER remember. Dayummm.....

What would a day on the links be without a little "bitchslapping", lol :))

Supposed to get 7 inches of snow tonight :bs2:

Shot 43 first time out last week... lost three balls, hook, duff, fat, thin... all over the place, couple of fluke birdies saved further embarrassment, lol :D

[Fritz]

Wist, if I ever shot a 43 I would have an orgasm right on the ninth hole.

Don't be complaining about that score.

[Patler]

Shot 43 first time out last week... lost three balls, hook, duff, fat, thin... all over the place, couple of fluke birdies saved further embarrassment, lol :D

Were you not counting all of your shots (a Mulligan per hole????) including penalty shots, or were you playing a par 3 course??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Tarlam!]

Wist, if I ever shot a 43 I would have an orgasm right on the ninth hole.

Don't be complaining about that score.

2001, September 13, I go out in 39..... My handicap is 21.7. I was still drunk from the early hours. In fact, we didn't hit our beds until 6 am and we tee'd off at 10. So, that's a pretty incredible 9 right there.

My playing partners were both really pissed off at me, cause there were some bets rolling around.

Anyway, we had a coupla beers at the halfway house.

I came in with 58. Didn't even play my hcp!

Jeez I love Marbella!!

[wist43]

Shot 43 first time out last week... lost three balls, hook, duff, fat, thin... all over the place, couple of fluke birdies saved further embarrassment, lol :D

Were you not counting all of your shots (a Mulligan per hole????) including penalty shots, or were you playing a par 3 course??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Never take mullies (usually, lol)... however, I did hook one on to the driving range off the 1st tee - and since no one was looking :))

Normally expect to be under 40... that goes up as the beer goes down though :glug:

Ugly nine, with a lot of good breaks - one of those birdies came off a completely missed green, hit a tree, and it bounded and fumbled to 10 feet, made the putt. Not gonna feel guilty though, had a great time, laughed a lot - was with my brother, and he really stunk :)

[wist43]

Wist, if I ever shot a 43 I would have an orgasm right on the ninth hole.

Don't be complaining about that score.

So that was you at the Silk Exotic golf outing??? Heard they can't go back to that GC :D

[Fritz]

Nope - I stopped playing. I realized
I'd have to take lessons and practice only on the range for two years before I'd even be close to competent. That sounded like a job, and I already have one of those.

[Patler]

Never take mullies (usually, lol)... however, I did hook one on to the driving range off the 1st tee - and since no one was looking :))


First round, first tee, that was a simple warm-up!

[Fritz]

If this new guy jumps offside a lot, can we call him The Duke of Earl?

:rs:

Get it?

[Gunakor]

There's different kinds of 6'2", 300 lbs....

I worked with a chick that was 6'2", 300 lbs... she was an ass kicking bitch, but I doubt she could move Pat Williams off the ball.

You hear all this about how Wells was a wrestler, and plays with great leverage... if that were the case, he'd win the majority of snaps, but plain and simple he doesn't.

If he really is 300 lbs, it doesn't translate to the field.

Exactly. Wells isn't the strongest center out there, that's for sure. Wells' value, and it is huge value, is the fact that he is so intelligent. His line calls are almost always correct. His technique is excellent. Characteristics like those are what has enabled him to last as long as he has thus far in this league. Characteristics like those are why I'm not so thrilled with the prospect of losing him.

[Joemailman]

I'm hoping Spitz beats out Wells because I think Spitz has upside, while Wells is as good as he is going to get, which is just average. I respect Wells for making himself into the best player he can be, but if the Packer's OL is to be better than average, they need more from the Center position than Wells can give them.

[Zool]

If this new guy jumps offside a lot, can we call him The Duke of Earl?

:rs:

Get it?

Dotson!

[cpk1994]

If this new guy jumps offside a lot, can we call him The Duke of Earl?

:rs:

Get it?Yes. BTW, the song of that name is stuck in my head now. Thank you very little. :lol: