Tramon Williams a "starter"

[Patler]

I recently ran across the following stat:
Tramon Williams played 73% of the defensive stats in 2008.

I know injuries resulted in him really starting about half the season, but it emphasizes the value of a really good 3rd CB. He was on the field for almost 3 of every 4 plays.

[bobblehead]

Yea, he is a starter basically. Just as Poppinga is basically a part timer, but when you add ST, he plays as much as TWill. If TWill puts in another good year he should be paid, but not yet.

[Lurker64]

Interestingly enough, with the switch to the 3-4 whoever we have playing in the OLB spot opposite Kampman (currently Poppinga) is no longer a part-timer, since in nickel formations the NT (currently Pickett) comes off for the nickel back (currently Williams).

This is why, I feel that upgrading the other OLB position is more important than getting another NT ;)

[Waldo]

Yea, he is a starter basically. Just as Poppinga is basically a part timer, but when you add ST, he plays as much as TWill. If TWill puts in another good year he should be paid, but not yet.

No option, he doesn't get paid, he doesn't play.

It's a joke to pay a starting (essentially) CB less than this years 7th round pick.

[Lurker64]

Yea, he is a starter basically. Just as Poppinga is basically a part timer, but when you add ST, he plays as much as TWill. If TWill puts in another good year he should be paid, but not yet.

No option, he doesn't get paid, he doesn't play.

It's a joke to pay a starting (essentially) CB less than this years 7th round pick.

Considering Williams's lack of leverage, about how much do you think it's going to cost to get him on the field?

[Waldo]

2-3M

IMO he should get a 5 yr 24M contract, 2M SB, 6M yr 3 option bonus, salaries of 2M, 2M, 4M, 4M, 4M. He has to earn the OB. If he's a star, we take away his leverage and get him in his prime at 6M/yr. He flops, we don't pick up the OB, and have a 1.2M dead cap hit in 2011 and he's cut. Basically a 2 yr 6M deal with a 3 yr 18M deal added on if he earns it. If we're gonna scratch his back and give him a contract now, he should do the same and limit his maximum pay in his prime to a reasonable #.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

2-3M

IMO he should get a 5 yr 24M contract, 2M SB, 6M yr 3 option bonus, salaries of 2M, 2M, 4M, 4M, 4M. He has to earn the OB. If he's a star, we take away his leverage and get him in his prime at 6M/yr. He flops, we don't pick up the OB, and have a 1.2M dead cap hit in 2011 and he's cut. Basically a 2 yr 6M deal with a 3 yr 18M deal added on if he earns it. If we're gonna scratch his back and give him a contract now, he should do the same and limit his maximum pay in his prime to a reasonable #.

Couldn't have said it better.....

[Partial]

Thats a pretty fair deal. I agree.

[Patler]

2-3M

IMO he should get a 5 yr 24M contract, 2M SB, 6M yr 3 option bonus, salaries of 2M, 2M, 4M, 4M, 4M. He has to earn the OB. If he's a star, we take away his leverage and get him in his prime at 6M/yr. He flops, we don't pick up the OB, and have a 1.2M dead cap hit in 2011 and he's cut. Basically a 2 yr 6M deal with a 3 yr 18M deal added on if he earns it. If we're gonna scratch his back and give him a contract now, he should do the same and limit his maximum pay in his prime to a reasonable #.

If he truly is a star, they will not get a significant chunk of his prime years at a reduced price. He will simply hold out. The Packers may end up trading him ala McKenzie or Walker; but if he is a legitimate star, the Packers won't get more than a year or two at the best for any discounted price.

The Packers have sweetened a lot of players' contracts in recent years (Harris, Driver, Tauscher), and might do that with Williams too if he were to become a star in a couple years.

[bobblehead]

Yea, he is a starter basically. Just as Poppinga is basically a part timer, but when you add ST, he plays as much as TWill. If TWill puts in another good year he should be paid, but not yet.

No option, he doesn't get paid, he doesn't play.

It's a joke to pay a starting (essentially) CB less than this years 7th round pick.

And who does that hurt more, Tramon Williams or TT and the Green Bay Packers?? You make it sound like he has all the leverage.

What if he gets paid and this years 7th rounder comes into camp and beats him out?? Rework the 7th rounders deal? What about Bigby, who deserves more, I believe he is getting the same tender as TWill. What if DeShawn Wynn Beats out Grant and Jackson? Do we have to rework his deal? Desmond Bishop?? If he cracks the lineup do we redo his contract?

In any event I'll say it over and over. If TWill is looking for a moderate bump and gives us a year of his FA in return I'm all for it. If he wants the same contract BJack or some other 2nd rounder got, give it to him. But I'm guessing he wants 5 million a year.

[bobblehead]

2-3M

IMO he should get a 5 yr 24M contract, 2M SB, 6M yr 3 option bonus, salaries of 2M, 2M, 4M, 4M, 4M. He has to earn the OB. If he's a star, we take away his leverage and get him in his prime at 6M/yr. He flops, we don't pick up the OB, and have a 1.2M dead cap hit in 2011 and he's cut. Basically a 2 yr 6M deal with a 3 yr 18M deal added on if he earns it. If we're gonna scratch his back and give him a contract now, he should do the same and limit his maximum pay in his prime to a reasonable #.

Hadn't gotten to this post yet. Let me clear something up, no way in hell he signs that deal. I'll apologize later if I'm wrong. 2M SB?? Isn't that what Grants agent ran to the press over and called insulting??

[Waldo]

I'm sure he want's 5M/yr, he doesn't have a chance to get it though. He isn't playing for 400K however either.

Were I in his situation I would hold out too. And go through with a holdout until week 9, when I'd have enough time to earn my accrued season if on the roster, and be eligible for RFA and a ticket out of GB next year. If the Packers want to play games and not give me the eligibility for he accrued season, they'd have to cut me, and I'd be a UFA.

We hold a lot less cards than many fans think we do. Were he an RFA, he'd need at least a first tender, even then that might not be enough. Being statistically a top 20 DB in ints and pass defections did not go unnoticed around the league. He's as good as gone with a 2nd tender, possibly a first too.

There is one very big difference between Grant and Tramon. Grant was the starting #1 RB and workhorse, he got low end workhorse RB money completely unguaranteed. Tramon right now is the #3 DB, is isn't nearly as needed as Grant was, nor play as dangerous of a position as Grant does.

[falco]

Were I in his situation I would hold out too. And go through with a holdout until week 9, when I'd have enough time to earn my accrued season if on the roster, and be eligible for RFA and a ticket out of GB next year. If the Packers want to play games and not give me the eligibility for he accrued season, they'd have to cut me, and I'd be a UFA.

agree completely.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

2-3M

IMO he should get a 5 yr 24M contract, 2M SB, 6M yr 3 option bonus, salaries of 2M, 2M, 4M, 4M, 4M. He has to earn the OB. If he's a star, we take away his leverage and get him in his prime at 6M/yr. He flops, we don't pick up the OB, and have a 1.2M dead cap hit in 2011 and he's cut. Basically a 2 yr 6M deal with a 3 yr 18M deal added on if he earns it. If we're gonna scratch his back and give him a contract now, he should do the same and limit his maximum pay in his prime to a reasonable #.

If he truly is a star, they will not get a significant chunk of his prime years at a reduced price. He will simply hold out. The Packers may end up trading him ala McKenzie or Walker; but if he is a legitimate star, the Packers won't get more than a year or two at the best for any discounted price.

The Packers have sweetened a lot of players' contracts in recent years (Harris, Driver, Tauscher), and might do that with Williams too if he were to become a star in a couple years.

How is that fair? What did poppinga do to earn the money he's making now. I think Williams is way more vaulable than Poppinga and that guy is making like 2-3 million a year for shitty play. A good CB is way more vaulable than a piss ass olb.

I not saying pay the guy through the roof, but making him the lowest paid player a defense is not the right thing to do.

[bobblehead]

2-3M

IMO he should get a 5 yr 24M contract, 2M SB, 6M yr 3 option bonus, salaries of 2M, 2M, 4M, 4M, 4M. He has to earn the OB. If he's a star, we take away his leverage and get him in his prime at 6M/yr. He flops, we don't pick up the OB, and have a 1.2M dead cap hit in 2011 and he's cut. Basically a 2 yr 6M deal with a 3 yr 18M deal added on if he earns it. If we're gonna scratch his back and give him a contract now, he should do the same and limit his maximum pay in his prime to a reasonable #.

If he truly is a star, they will not get a significant chunk of his prime years at a reduced price. He will simply hold out. The Packers may end up trading him ala McKenzie or Walker; but if he is a legitimate star, the Packers won't get more than a year or two at the best for any discounted price.

The Packers have sweetened a lot of players' contracts in recent years (Harris, Driver, Tauscher), and might do that with Williams too if he were to become a star in a couple years.

How is that fair? What did poppinga do to earn the money he's making now. I think Williams is way more vaulable than Poppinga and that guy is making like 2-3 million a year for shitty play. A good CB is way more vaulable than a piss ass olb.

I not saying pay the guy through the roof, but making him the lowest paid player a defense is not the right thing to do.

If we had this discussion in week 5 of last season it would be dead opposite....get my point on wanting TWill to play 8 games this season?

[pbmax]

The number of plays on the field tells us Williams is better than the next DB on the roster, but he is not a starter. He has no leverage and if he holds out, he'll have even less money.

He does not get a ticket out of town as an RFA unless the Packers allow him to leave. If there is no CBA or salary cap, he must wait until year 6. There is talent behind him and he is replaceable. He should not get anything close to Waldo's numbers unless its window dressing and the real deal is for much less.

Grant was the only proven back and most agree that contract was out of line. And Grant's deal can end after year 2 after paying him an average of 4 million per year (that number will have gone up since he surpassed 1,000 yards in 08). Williams can sit out all he wants but he runs the risk of being surpassed in the new Defense.

Grant and Poppinga start. TWill does not. If he doesn't like the second round draft pick making more than him, then he needs to talk to Tauscher about his Union's position.

[Waldo]

If he is a RFA, he gets paid. We put a low tender on him, We're matching whatever he gets on the open market to stay. We give him a 2nd tender, where also probably matching what he gets on the open market to stay. We put a high enough tender on to keep him without many looks in FA, a first, he gets 2M.

Cortland Finnegan is a real good example player for Tramon. They are roughly equal statistically. Cortland was a 7th round pick, and extended after his 2nd year in the league to the tune of 4 yr 17M, after starting 1 year. Tramon started a good part of the year (9 games), but did more with that time (more int's and PD's) than Cortland did in his year starting.

[pbmax]

Cortland started 16 games in his second year and 34 over the first three. That includes 2 starts as a rookie. He is on his fourth year.

Tramon started 1 game in his second season, didn't see the field in the first (he is a 3 year vet) and has 10 starts over three seasons.

Not going to happen my friend, not at these numbers.


8/15/2008: Signed a four-year, $16.8 million contract. The deal contains $8.5 million guaranteed, including a $6 million signing bonus. 2009: $2.15 million, 2010: $2.9 million, 2011: $3.293 million, 2012: Free Agent

[Waldo]

He had 18 starts when extended. The extended him after his 2nd year.

[pbmax]

He had 18 starts when extended. The extended him after his 2nd year.
Yes, one full year as a starter prior to the new contract. CF had 18 starts in two years. Tramon has 10 in two years plus a year he did not make it on the field. Not the same.

[Fritz]

Battle of the giants. Facts and statistics lobbed like hand grenades.

Ya gotta love this. It's better than the shrill propoganda that passes for arguing too often these days.