DT B.J. Raji tests POSITIVE FOR DRUGS!

[gbpackfan]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/nfl/04/02/raji/index.html?eref=si_nfl

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playernews.aspx?sport=NFL

SI. com is reporting a positive drug test at the combine. Yikes! What a complete fool. Do the Packers still draft him if he is there at 9? I doubt it.

[Bossman641]

Got to believe it was for weed.

I honestly don't know what I'd want TT to do if he's there at 9 now.

[mission]

Weed, big deal. I'm great at my job and smoke all the time. 'Course, I make music ... 8-) :P

(Does make things interesting now, dunnnit?)

[swede]

Weed made us and a lot of other teams pass on Warren Sapp--do you think Ron Wolf would have done that differently after a few years of watching Sapp play?

[Gunakor]

Take him anyway. Look at Michael Irvin, and tell me that using drugs will hinder your capabilities on a football field. You are kidding yourself if you do. Raji is gonna be a tremendous football player, regardless of this test, and regardless which team drafts him. So I still hope it's us that does so.

[RashanGary]

If he's a hard worker and good guy, I wouldn't care. If it's this and several other things, then I'm worried.

[sheepshead]

I wish we would trade our first round pick for somebody...anybody!

[Partial]

Take him anyway. Look at Michael Irvin, and tell me that using drugs will hinder your capabilities on a football field. You are kidding yourself if you do. Raji is gonna be a tremendous football player, regardless of this test, and regardless which team drafts him. So I still hope it's us that does so.

Right... If he ever gets on the field.

Dude has already been tested positive once. This would be strike two.

Dumb people don't learn their lessons. Really dumb people don't learn their lessons when millions of dollars are at stake.

Are you telling me that you want such a dumb mother fucker that cannot quit smoking for a month or two so he can get drafted and get paid millions of dollars?

What makes you think he'll ever be able to quit if he cannot quit for a month or two in order to be literally handed 5+ million dollars..

Big no thanks to this guy. No fucking way do I want him anywhere near the Packers. This guy has bust tattooed all over him.

[red]

ugggggggg

what an idiot, why the hell would you smoke knowing damn well that you're going to be tested at the combine?

[Gunakor]

Take him anyway. Look at Michael Irvin, and tell me that using drugs will hinder your capabilities on a football field. You are kidding yourself if you do. Raji is gonna be a tremendous football player, regardless of this test, and regardless which team drafts him. So I still hope it's us that does so.

Right... If he ever gets on the field.

Dude has already been tested positive once. This would be strike two.

Dumb people don't learn their lessons. Really dumb people don't learn their lessons when millions of dollars are at stake.

Are you telling me that you want such a dumb mother fucker that cannot quit smoking for a month or two so he can get drafted and get paid millions of dollars?

What makes you think he'll ever be able to quit if he cannot quit for a month or two in order to be literally handed 5+ million dollars..

Big no thanks to this guy. No fucking way do I want him anywhere near the Packers. This guy has bust tattooed all over him.

Yeah, he looked like a sure fire bust at the Senior Bowl, and again at the Scouting Combine. Tattooed all over him.

[Partial]

Actually... He did very little during the senior bowl. Sure, he looked good during practice. Unfortunately for Raji practice != game, and there are many great practice players in the world.

At the scouting combine, he looked ok. He promised that he'd run a certain time to Mayock. He came off as very cocky and assure of himself imo. He failed to meet his promised expectations both times. Do you really want someone who makes outrageous claims without backing them up? What happens when he calls out Adrian Peterson?!?

With millions of dollars on the line, knowing he'd be a professional athlete, he failed to take any personal responsibility and follow up with his advisors to make sure he'd have enough credits to be eligible to play. Another example of laziness. While I realize the advisor incorrectly advised him, all of the information is publicly available, and he didn't put forth any effort to double check. Where is the personal responsibility?!?

He has now been caught toking up twice, if the recent allegations are true. Two things come to mind here:

This guy has gotten caught twice now. He cannot quit even for a month to complete the combine and coast to the big pay day? Is that an unreasonable thing to do? Quick blazing up for a GD month in order to be handed a 5+ million dollar check?!? He cannot even manage that.

Secondly, what happens now that he has some money in his pocket. He'll be able to afford all the weed, or worse drugs that he wants. He's already shown he's going to smoke weed, even at risk of costing him millions of dollars.

Do you think he's going to stop once he gets into the NFL? No way. You have to work for that money. Hell, he has snubbed his nose to the NFL teams willing to pay him 5 mil+ guaranteed up front.

This guy is cooo cooo for coco puffs. It'd be one thing if weed was allowed by the NFL. Unfortunately, its not. He gets caught again and he'll be suspended 4 games. Another time, and I think he's done for a year.

[gbpackfan]

Take him anyway. Look at Michael Irvin, and tell me that using drugs will hinder your capabilities on a football field. You are kidding yourself if you do. Raji is gonna be a tremendous football player, regardless of this test, and regardless which team drafts him. So I still hope it's us that does so.

Right... If he ever gets on the field.

Dude has already been tested positive once. This would be strike two.

Dumb people don't learn their lessons. Really dumb people don't learn their lessons when millions of dollars are at stake.

Are you telling me that you want such a dumb mother fucker that cannot quit smoking for a month or two so he can get drafted and get paid millions of dollars?

What makes you think he'll ever be able to quit if he cannot quit for a month or two in order to be literally handed 5+ million dollars..

Big no thanks to this guy. No fucking way do I want him anywhere near the Packers. This guy has bust tattooed all over him.

Yeah, he looked like a sure fire bust at the Senior Bowl, and again at the Scouting Combine. Tattooed all over him.

Well....actually he kind of sucked it up at the Senior Bowl. He was great in the practices before the Senior Bowl but then disappeared during the game. And the combine numbers mean very little to me. Show me some film and their work-out habbits, that is way more important.

And I agree with Partial, what kind of turd can't stay off of weed during this process? What a moron!

But he is still a good player and the #9 pick just got more interesting. This combined with Cutler in the NFC North now makes it even more important the Packers get an impact defender.

[red]

well, this might make him fall to us. he probably would have been gone otherwise

and we have to find out if it was just for weed. i think PFT mentioned that a few guys projected as first rounders tested positive for roids. i think

this might be one of them

i personally have no problem with anyone smoking up, i just don't want a guy thats going to end up suspended and quiting to focus on weed

[Gunakor]

Oh, and I don't think his positive test in college necessarily amounts to a strike by NFL standards. Teams may forgo drafting him, ala Warren Sapp, but the league itself isn't going to punish Raji as if he's a 2 time offender in the league. They aren't gonna suspend him because he failed a test at the combine. They will probably order him to attend drug counseling, and that's it. Then it's up to him. Maybe he won't quit, I don't know. But Koren Robinson by all accounts cleaned up his act in Green Bay, became a model citizen and teammate in fact, so why is it so hard to believe that someone like Raji couldn't do the same thing in a similar setting?

[Partial]

OK, you draft Raji, have him sit in prison in a year, then he'll be a clean camper too..

C'mon man, use your head. Dude isn't going to stop smoking until it really bites him in the ass.

It is my understanding he will have one strike against him now, since it was the NFL that caught him.

[The Shadow]

So he's now another no-talent weed smoker,..... like Warren Sapp?

[Gunakor]

OK, you draft Raji, have him sit in prison in a year, then he'll be a clean camper too..

C'mon man, use your head. Dude isn't going to stop smoking until it really bites him in the ass.

It is my understanding he will have one strike against him now, since it was the NFL that caught him.

He's not going to prison. Where did you get that he was going to prison? He failed an NFL drug test. He is facing NFL discipline for it, which is to say he's been entered into the initial stage of the NFL drug program. No fine, no suspension. Just random testing, drug counseling, and a probationary period in which if he gets caught again he faces possible fines or suspensions. The police aren't involved in this even a little bit.

[DonHutson]

But Koren Robinson by all accounts cleaned up his act in Green Bay, became a model citizen and teammate in fact, so why is it so hard to believe that someone like Raji couldn't do the same thing in a similar setting?

That's a valid point. Then again, they got Robinson off the scrap heap and invested next to nothing in him. Investing a rare top ten pick and a truckload of money in a guy would make me a little more particular about such things.

Ted might take a character risk later in the draft with one of his trade down extras, but he seems to play it pretty safe when the big bucks are on the line.

I'd be pretty surprised if Ted took Raji, and with the Bengals and Raiders picking ahead of us, we probably still won't get the chance.

[Joemailman]

So he's now another no-talent weed smoker,..... like Warren Sapp?

The difference is that Sapp never tested positive in tests conducted by the NFL. There were reports, which he denied, of positive tests while at Miami. If a team in the top 10 thinks Raji is a future dominant player, he may be worth the chance. If not, he'll probably drop to the middle of the 1st round. I think I'd pass at #9.

[Gunakor]

But Koren Robinson by all accounts cleaned up his act in Green Bay, became a model citizen and teammate in fact, so why is it so hard to believe that someone like Raji couldn't do the same thing in a similar setting?

That's a valid point. Then again, they got Robinson off the scrap heap and invested next to nothing in him. Investing a rare top ten pick and a truckload of money in a guy would make me a little more particular about such things.

Ted might take a character risk later in the draft with one of his trade down extras, but he seems to play it pretty safe when the big bucks are on the line.

I still think this is a safe pick. He's far and away the best DT in the draft. For a team that lost another DT amongst an already thin group this offseason, and a couple of the others that are moving out to the ends, I think you need to do this. Depth behind Pickett, not to mention an eventual replacement for him sooner rather than later, is extremely important right now. And BJ Raji type NT's aren't going to come around every year. If he's there for us at #9, I think he's much too valuable to pass on.

[Partial]

OK, you draft Raji, have him sit in prison in a year, then he'll be a clean camper too..

C'mon man, use your head. Dude isn't going to stop smoking until it really bites him in the ass.

It is my understanding he will have one strike against him now, since it was the NFL that caught him.

He's not going to prison. Where did you get that he was going to prison? He failed an NFL drug test. He is facing NFL discipline for it, which is to say he's been entered into the initial stage of the NFL drug program. No fine, no suspension. Just random testing, drug counseling, and a probationary period in which if he gets caught again he faces possible fines or suspensions. The police aren't involved in this even a little bit.

Right... Koren cleaned up AFTER he was kicked outta the league and spent time in the clink. Who knows if hes still clean.

[Partial]

Guys like Raji are there every year. Each and every year. He's nothing special.

[Gunakor]

Guys like Raji are there every year. Each and every year. He's nothing special.

Who was last year's BJ Raji?

[Partial]

2008 - Sedrick Ellis, Glenn Dorsey were both better prospects. More production, less drugs, less red flags.

2007 - Okoye, Harrell were equal or better prospects. Harrell was an SEC stud.

2006 - Haloit Ngata, Broderick Bunkley

2005 - Very weak for DT

2004 - Tommie Harris, Vince Wilfolk

2003 - Kevin Williams, Dewayne Robertson, Johnathan Sullivan, Jimmy Kennedy

2002 - John Henderson, Albert Haynesworth

2001 - Gerard Warren, Richard Seymour, Damione Lewis, Marcus Stroud


This is a really weak year for DT imo.

[Joemailman]

Ngata was probably a better prospect than Raji, and he went #12 without a positive drug test. Raji is very good, but there's a question of whether he's a special player, or just the best of a weak class.

[Gunakor]

I'm only talking about nose tackles. 4-3 tackles are different. True nose tackles are a rare breed. Glenn Dorsey isn't a nose, and neither is Ellis or Harrell or Tommie Harris. Kevin Williams is to light to play the nose. Vince Wilfork definitely was a better NT prospect than Raji, I'll give you that. Haloti Ngata would have been a stud NT perhaps, but he plays the end in Baltimore.

Guys, we need a NOSE tackle. Not another Justin Harrell. Not a Glenn Dorsey. Raji is almost 340 pounds and strong as an ox. He's a NOSE tackle. He's what we need.

[RashanGary]

Raji is a unique, tough to find, NT.

Big red flag that he can't stay away from pot long enough to make millions though. Huge red flag. Academic problems too.


Would definitely be a scary pick. Thompson seems more willing to take injury risks than character risks. We'll see. He could very well be there for us to pick at 9. I'm sure Jags will give McCarthy the low down on the kid. If he gets a glowing endorsement from Jags, he could be our pick @ #9.

[Joemailman]

Wouldn't a positive drug test guarantee that Cincinnati will take him at #6?

[Fritz]

As someone noted above, with Cinci picking at the #6 spot, how could they pass on the chance to take a popssible pot-smoking rule-breaker? He's "Bengals people."

Besides, the question as to whether the Pack should take him hinges on two questions: what drug did he test postive for? And, if it was pot, was it good pot and can he get some for the Packerrats who smoke it up in the Wisconsin area?

[bigcoz75]

Welcome back to the NFL Cletidus. :lol:

[Gunakor]

Welcome back to the NFL Cletidus. :lol:

Or Sapp :?:

[mission]

Besides, the question as to whether the Pack should take him hinges on two questions: what drug did he test postive for? And, if it was pot, was it good pot and can he get some for the Packerrats who smoke it up in the Wisconsin area?

This is really all it comes down to.

[rbaloha1]

Too much talent to pass on. Its possible TT may have to select between Andre Smith and Raji.

[Guiness]

Weed made us and a lot of other teams pass on Warren Sapp--do you think Ron Wolf would have done that differently after a few years of watching Sapp play?

Carrying on with the assumption it's weed...

Not an immediate reason to pass on him, IMO. Need to re-interview and try to find out how if he's a chronic or not.

There's a quite a list of guys who were known to inhale in college, and a mixed bag of results.

Sapp, Moss - overcame the problem, great
Ricki Williams - some ok years, certainly could've better if he'd handled it better

[Bretsky]

OK, you draft Raji, have him sit in prison in a year, then he'll be a clean camper too..

C'mon man, use your head. Dude isn't going to stop smoking until it really bites him in the ass.

It is my understanding he will have one strike against him now, since it was the NFL that caught him.


Where are you getting the information from that he'll already be categorized as a first time offender ?

I honestly don't know either way so I'm just asking

[Lurker64]

Guys do sometimes get busted in college and shape up and fly straight when they get to the pros. Luis Castillo got busted juicing at Northwestern, still got drafted in the first, got drug tested several times a month for years and has been clean ever since.

A lot of guys go about things very differently when football is their fulltime job.

[Partial]

OK, you draft Raji, have him sit in prison in a year, then he'll be a clean camper too..

C'mon man, use your head. Dude isn't going to stop smoking until it really bites him in the ass.

It is my understanding he will have one strike against him now, since it was the NFL that caught him.


Where are you getting the information from that he'll already be categorized as a first time offender ?

I honestly don't know either way so I'm just asking

Catstillo of the chargers had it count as a first time offense when he was tested for banned substance. So did Merriman. Both initial tests were at Combine iirc. It counts because the NFL is the one administering the tests.

[Partial]

Guys do sometimes get busted in college and shape up and fly straight when they get to the pros. Luis Castillo got busted juicing at Northwestern, still got drafted in the first, got drug tested several times a month for years and has been clean ever since.

A lot of guys go about things very differently when football is their fulltime job.

He tested for a banned substance that he didn't know was banned. Quite a bit different than being unable to put down the peace pipe, even when some NFL team is willing to pay you millions of dollars to do so.

This guy has now tested positive for weed twice, in the face of getting a huge sum of money. He is a bum. No thanks!!

[Bretsky]

OK, you draft Raji, have him sit in prison in a year, then he'll be a clean camper too..

C'mon man, use your head. Dude isn't going to stop smoking until it really bites him in the ass.

It is my understanding he will have one strike against him now, since it was the NFL that caught him.


Where are you getting the information from that he'll already be categorized as a first time offender ?

I honestly don't know either way so I'm just asking

Catstillo of the chargers had it count as a first time offense when he was tested for banned substance. So did Merriman. Both initial tests were at Combine iirc. It counts because the NFL is the one administering the tests.


I'm torn; you've just given evidence of two guys I'd love to have as Packers

I'd probably roll the dice if he was there and he was the BPA

But I'm still on the Crabbie train if he's there as well.

And if we can steal a pick for somebody trying to move ahead of San Fran for a QB I'd take that in a second

[Partial]

The difference with those guys was banned substances. At least I am pretty sure it wasnt pot.

This guy seems to have a TON of baggage with him. No way does Teets pick a Bengal personality like this guy.

[Charles Woodson]

Its weed, who gives a fuck

[Bretsky]

The difference with those guys was banned substances. At least I am pretty sure it wasnt pot.

This guy seems to have a TON of baggage with him. No way does Teets pick a Bengal personality like this guy.


Well Warren Sapp would be another. Hey, you're talking with the dude who wanted Odell Thurman :lol: Of course, I didn't know his background.

I have a sick feeling we'll end up with the OT with the questionable character and work ethic

[Partial]

Its weed, who gives a fuck

On a personal level, probably no one.

On a "This guy has been busted twice already and is likely to do it again, with getting caught once more resulting in a 4 game suspension and twice more in a year suspension" kind of way I'd say every packer fan

[Partial]

At least he'll be able to suit up on Sundays. Raji cant do much good when he's suspended..

[DannoMac21]

Its weed, who gives a fuck

Couldn't have said it better myself. I do it every day, and I'm sure over 70% of all athletes smoke a lot as well. Calvin Johnson, Gaines Adams, and others admitted to ganja use in 2007 during their time at college, yet they're never criticized. THC stays in certain people's systems longer than others...so if Raji smoked one bowl a month ago, that THC could still be in his system. Unfortunate.

[Patler]

Its weed, who gives a fuck

Couldn't have said it better myself. I do it every day, and I'm sure over 70% of all athletes smoke a lot as well. Calvin Johnson, Gaines Adams, and others admitted to ganja use in 2007 during their time at college, yet they're never criticized. THC stays in certain people's systems longer than others...so if Raji smoked one bowl a month ago, that THC could still be in his system. Unfortunate.

Who? Well the Commissioner's Office, for one, and therein lies the problem.

The Packers have had players with positive tests for different things over the years. Most teams do. A single failed test doesn't bother me. However, if it is true that he has been caught on a couple drug tests already, it will be necessary for any team drafting him to know for sure the circumstances surrounding his use. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks about any particular drug. The only thing that matters is that it is something for which he could be suspended if caught again. So the question is whether or not he can avoid future failed tests. If it doesn't seem to be a problem, go ahead and draft him.

[Fritz]

I would argue - and this is not a direct disagreement with Patler but an oblique - that it matters not what people think of any drug socially, but it does matter which drug he tested postive for.

If it's steroid, to me that'd be a bigger red flag than pot. Much bigger. Roids suggest the guy's body isn't "real" and the inability to use steroids in his future (okay, this may be my flight of fancy, imagining those guys get caught when they use steroids!) would cause his performance to fall dramatically (see "Mandarich, Tony").

If it's pot, well, that's not good for the aerobic conditoning, for sure. But it's less a performance-killer than a lack of steroids might well be.

Therefore, pot is better than steroids!

Wouldn't it be kinda hilarious if MM and his assistants, when they meet to do the game planning for an opponent, get toked up while they're doing it. Imagine that meeting....

"Yeah, and then we'll run a play where Colledge lines up as an eligible receiver, and we'll have him run a post! No one'll expect that one!"

"Oh, dude, I got it: Let's run the Statue of Liberty - but we'll have Clifton grab it off Rodgers and wing a bomb to Korey Hall down the sideline! That'll fool everyone!""

[Patler]

Wouldn't it be kinda hilarious if MM and his assistants, when they meet to do the game planning for an opponent, get toked up while they're doing it. Imagine that meeting....

"Yeah, and then we'll run a play where Colledge lines up as an eligible receiver, and we'll have him run a post! No one'll expect that one!"

"Oh, dude, I got it: Let's run the Statue of Liberty - but we'll have Clifton grab it off Rodgers and wing a bomb to Korey Hall down the sideline! That'll fool everyone!""

or....
"Coach, can we have snacks on the sideline?"

[Zool]

Its weed, who gives a fuck

Couldn't have said it better myself. I do it every day, and I'm sure over 70% of all athletes smoke a lot as well. Calvin Johnson, Gaines Adams, and others admitted to ganja use in 2007 during their time at college, yet they're never criticized. THC stays in certain people's systems longer than others...so if Raji smoked one bowl a month ago, that THC could still be in his system. Unfortunate.

Its not in the fact that he smokes it at all. Its in the fact that its illegal, the NFL will make you sit out games if you're caught with it, yet the retard still smokes it when he has millions of dollars on the line. If he can't resist it now, whats to make him resist during the season when random tests are going on? It brings up a question of common sense in the guy and desire to play pro ball.

[run pMc]

<sarcasm>
well that clinches it. With Raji available at #9, TT will trade down a few spots and draft WR Kenny Britt.
</sarcasm>

For GB, it gives them a shot at Raji. Looks like that "due diligence" just became a lot more important.

For Raji, it's going to mean a lot of extra scrutiny, and some lost $ on that rookie contract.

Raji is generally considered the best NT in the draft by a wide margin. GB needs a NT. I'm not against drafting him if he's there, but I think TT has something else in mind.

[bigcoz75]

Originally Posted by kffl
NFL | Cushing, Matthews tested positive for steroids
Thu, 02 Apr 2009 20:23:40 -0700

Rick Serritella, of NFLDraftBible.com, reports Southern California LB Brian Cushing and LB Clay Matthews tested positive for steroids at the NFL Scouting Combine, according to various sources, including one NFL team.

[Partial]

Its weed, who gives a fuck

Couldn't have said it better myself. I do it every day, and I'm sure over 70% of all athletes smoke a lot as well. Calvin Johnson, Gaines Adams, and others admitted to ganja use in 2007 during their time at college, yet they're never criticized. THC stays in certain people's systems longer than others...so if Raji smoked one bowl a month ago, that THC could still be in his system. Unfortunate.

Its not in the fact that he smokes it at all. Its in the fact that its illegal, the NFL will make you sit out games if you're caught with it, yet the retard still smokes it when he has millions of dollars on the line. If he can't resist it now, whats to make him resist during the season when random tests are going on? It brings up a question of common sense in the guy and desire to play pro ball.

Yep. Exactly.

[red]

Originally Posted by kffl
NFL | Cushing, Matthews tested positive for steroids
Thu, 02 Apr 2009 20:23:40 -0700

Rick Serritella, of NFLDraftBible.com, reports Southern California LB Brian Cushing and LB Clay Matthews tested positive for steroids at the NFL Scouting Combine, according to various sources, including one NFL team.

the same site also says vontae davis and percy harvin also tested positive along with raji for weed

if all this is true then cushing and matthews have to be right off our board, and there has to be some serious investigating done on the other 3

[Fritz]

Given the choice between a steroid user and a pot smoker, I'll take the pot smoker.

Raji, please. And here, buddy, let me hang on to that baggie for ya - I'll keep it safe, promise!

[Guiness]

Originally Posted by kffl
NFL | Cushing, Matthews tested positive for steroids
Thu, 02 Apr 2009 20:23:40 -0700

Rick Serritella, of NFLDraftBible.com, reports Southern California LB Brian Cushing and LB Clay Matthews tested positive for steroids at the NFL Scouting Combine, according to various sources, including one NFL team.

No surprise with Cushing. It was widely suspected;

What a fool to get caught. Not like the test was a surprise. I guess his 'clear' didn't work, or he mistimed something.

[Gunakor]

Its weed, who gives a fuck

Couldn't have said it better myself. I do it every day, and I'm sure over 70% of all athletes smoke a lot as well. Calvin Johnson, Gaines Adams, and others admitted to ganja use in 2007 during their time at college, yet they're never criticized. THC stays in certain people's systems longer than others...so if Raji smoked one bowl a month ago, that THC could still be in his system. Unfortunate.

Its not in the fact that he smokes it at all. Its in the fact that its illegal, the NFL will make you sit out games if you're caught with it, yet the retard still smokes it when he has millions of dollars on the line. If he can't resist it now, whats to make him resist during the season when random tests are going on? It brings up a question of common sense in the guy and desire to play pro ball.

For every Ricky Williams there's a Warren Sapp. Some players just don't get it at all, while some just need time to grow up. There are indeed players who smoked up in college, got caught, got caught by the NFL, and turned themselves around to make great careers for themselves. HOF careers, in fact. It's a risk, I'm not saying it isn't, but the potential reward makes it a risk I'd be willing to take. We need a NT that badly IMO.

[HarveyWallbangers]

For every Ricky Williams there's a Warren Sapp. Some players just don't get it at all, while some just need time to grow up. There are indeed players who smoked up in college, got caught, got caught by the NFL, and turned themselves around to make great careers for themselves. HOF careers, in fact. It's a risk, I'm not saying it isn't, but the potential reward makes it a risk I'd be willing to take. We need a NT that badly IMO.

With a top 10 pick, I don't think it's worth the risk. Later in the draft? Sure. I think our needs at DE and OT are as big or bigger than our need at DT.

[Waldo]

We don't need a NT that bad. Raji would be one of the least impactful players we could add for the '09 season. Unless Pickett gets hurt, it is doubtful that Raji would beat out Pickett as a rookie. The 3-4 NT is a situational player, even if Pickett only plays 75% of the NT snaps a game, Raji still wouldn't play more than 5-10 snaps a game tops. He's too short and alligator armed to kick out to DE like the bigger NT's (Ngata). Pickett is just entering the prime age for a NT, he should be in his peak for the next 5 years. NT's are like wine, they don't get good for a while typically, and their prime is typically around 30 years old.

Phat Pat didn't get good until he was 33-34 years old. Old Grady is still kicking around at 36, his knees have been shot for several years now. Big Grease is only 29.

Raji has a higher ceiling than Pickett, but is is doubtful taht he reaches it for 3-4 years. By drafting Raji, most likely we actually make ourself worse in '10, no way Pickett is resigned if he has a 5M/yr backup, and Raji is most likely a few years away from being better than Pickett.

Nobody would help our DL like Tyson Jackson. He's definitely the most starter ready 3-4 DL player in the draft. Gilbert and Hood might have a higher ceiling, but it'll be a few years before they surpass Jackson on the field.

[Gunakor]

For every Ricky Williams there's a Warren Sapp. Some players just don't get it at all, while some just need time to grow up. There are indeed players who smoked up in college, got caught, got caught by the NFL, and turned themselves around to make great careers for themselves. HOF careers, in fact. It's a risk, I'm not saying it isn't, but the potential reward makes it a risk I'd be willing to take. We need a NT that badly IMO.

With a top 10 pick, I don't think it's worth the risk. Later in the draft? Sure. I think our needs at DE and OT are as big or bigger than our need at DT.

I guess I am just not so enamored at the prospect of Ryan Pickett being our regular starter at NT. I don't like that thought at all, to be honest. To me, finding someone else to man that position is the #1 priority this offseason. I don't see this defense going anywhere with Pickett on the nose, regardless who they bring in to play DE.

On top of that, I haven't given up hope on Jenkins, Jolly, Harrell, and the other 4-3 DT's that are moving out to DE this year. I'm not entirely convinced we need to spend even a day one pick on a DE.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think Pickett will be fine as the starter at NT. We just need some one to go with him. I don't think we can go into the season with one bonafide NT. However, the RT situation is scary to me and I think we need another guy at DE. Hopefully, a starter. We also could use some depth at CB.

[Fritz]

We don't need a NT that bad. Raji would be one of the least impactful players we could add for the '09 season. Unless Pickett gets hurt, it is doubtful that Raji would beat out Pickett as a rookie. The 3-4 NT is a situational player, even if Pickett only plays 75% of the NT snaps a game, Raji still wouldn't play more than 5-10 snaps a game tops. He's too short and alligator armed to kick out to DE like the bigger NT's (Ngata). Pickett is just entering the prime age for a NT, he should be in his peak for the next 5 years. NT's are like wine, they don't get good for a while typically, and their prime is typically around 30 years old.

Phat Pat didn't get good until he was 33-34 years old. Old Grady is still kicking around at 36, his knees have been shot for several years now. Big Grease is only 29.

Raji has a higher ceiling than Pickett, but is is doubtful taht he reaches it for 3-4 years. By drafting Raji, most likely we actually make ourself worse in '10, no way Pickett is resigned if he has a 5M/yr backup, and Raji is most likely a few years away from being better than Pickett.

Nobody would help our DL like Tyson Jackson. He's definitely the most starter ready 3-4 DL player in the draft. Gilbert and Hood might have a higher ceiling, but it'll be a few years before they surpass Jackson on the field.

Me, I'd take the higher ceiling guys who will take time to develop over the guy who can step right in but not go as far.

As for having a high ceiling, it sounds like Raji sure does!

[rbaloha1]

We don't need a NT that bad. Raji would be one of the least impactful players we could add for the '09 season. Unless Pickett gets hurt, it is doubtful that Raji would beat out Pickett as a rookie. The 3-4 NT is a situational player, even if Pickett only plays 75% of the NT snaps a game, Raji still wouldn't play more than 5-10 snaps a game tops. He's too short and alligator armed to kick out to DE like the bigger NT's (Ngata). Pickett is just entering the prime age for a NT, he should be in his peak for the next 5 years. NT's are like wine, they don't get good for a while typically, and their prime is typically around 30 years old.

Phat Pat didn't get good until he was 33-34 years old. Old Grady is still kicking around at 36, his knees have been shot for several years now. Big Grease is only 29.

Raji has a higher ceiling than Pickett, but is is doubtful taht he reaches it for 3-4 years. By drafting Raji, most likely we actually make ourself worse in '10, no way Pickett is resigned if he has a 5M/yr backup, and Raji is most likely a few years away from being better than Pickett.


The key to the 3-4 is a penetrating or a ng that occupies blockers. Throw-out stats or flashy plays. NG is the most important position just like the center on offense.

Raji is ideal in the Sapp mold. Pickett is beat-up and aging. Unsure how many years Pickett has left.

Agreed Tyson Jackson would be an outstanding pick even at #9.

[Gunakor]

I think Pickett will be fine as the starter at NT. We just need some one to go with him. I don't think we can go into the season with one bonafide NT. However, the RT situation is scary to me and I think we need another guy at DE. Hopefully, a starter. We also could use some depth at CB.

RT scares me as well. But RT isn't a position I'd use a top 10 pick on either. LT maybe, but not RT. I'd be perfectly happy with an RT selected at the top of the second round. We need another DE too, but in all honesty I think we are fine for starters at the ends. If Harrell gets healthy he should flourish there, and Jolly should be more than adequate there also.

Green Bay spent a second round pick on a CB last year, and if they are happy with T-Will as one of the eventual starters replacing Chuck or Al, I dont' think they look at another CB early - certainly not with a top 10 pick. Maybe they will, I don't know. But it kinda makes it seem like they've already given up on Pat Lee if they do. Not the sign I'm looking for with the #9 pick.

[Waldo]

Aside from being a pothead, Raji is not in the Sapp mold, Sapp was a 300lb penetrator, Raji is a 340lb wall. Sapp was smaller that Cullen Jenkins. Raji is much more similar to Vince when he came out.

It isn't concerning to anybody that Raji was dominated 1 on 1 in the senior bowl vs. Mack and Wood? He made mincemeat of Unger, but the mauler C's can handle him by themselves.

Pickett is not beat up and aging. Where do you guys get this stuff. He's 29, in NT years that is young. He's slowing a bit and is probably better suited now to a 3-4 than a 4-3, as tackles age they get slower and more stout. That big gap between him and Kamp in Sanders' retarded scheme was to much for him to cover anymore (especially with Kamp thinking he's KGB and giving up on inside gap control in the run, something he used to excel at but is pretty bad at now). With the distance between him and the DE cut in half, he won't need to move nearly as much. He can still hold and command a double team just fine and would destroy any C in the league 1 on 1.

The fact remains that the NT is a situational player. A good % of the time when the nickel defense is on the field, the NT is on the bench. Unlike most 4-3 defenses where the SLB takes a seat.

IMO the most important lineman is the strong DE. He's typically the guy in the A gap in nickel defense, and has to play the part of the NT if they run out of a passing set. Harrell is penciled in there now surely, but nobody else on the team is suited to it. Hood and Moala are those guys in this draft. That is what Ngata's role has been for most of his career thus far, just a situational NT on sub packages and DE in base sets. Raji can't do that.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The key to the 3-4 is a penetrating or a ng that occupies blockers. Throw-out stats or flashy plays. NG is the most important position just like the center on offense.

Raji is ideal in the Sapp mold. Pickett is beat-up and aging. Unsure how many years Pickett has left.

Agreed Tyson Jackson would be an outstanding pick even at #9.

I'm trying to figure this out. I'm not sure what you mean that the key is "a penetrating or a NG that occupies blockers?" The second part is usually true, but an undersized penetrating NT isn't usually true. Remember that Warren Sapp played DT in the 4-3 with Tampa Bay, but moved to DE when Oakland switched to a 3-4. He was a 4-3 DT and a 3-4 DE--not a 3-4 NT. Raji doesn't seem to be anything like Sapp. Raji is much bigger than Sapp but not as athletic.

[rbaloha1]

The key to the 3-4 is a penetrating or a ng that occupies blockers. Throw-out stats or flashy plays. NG is the most important position just like the center on offense.

Raji is ideal in the Sapp mold. Pickett is beat-up and aging. Unsure how many years Pickett has left.

Agreed Tyson Jackson would be an outstanding pick even at #9.

I'm trying to figure this out. I'm not sure what you mean that the key is "a penetrating or a NG that occupies blockers?" The second part is usually true, but an undersized penetrating NT isn't usually true. Remember that Warren Sapp played DT in the 4-3 with Tampa Bay, but moved to DE when Oakland switched to a 3-4. He was a 4-3 DT and a 3-4 DE--not a 3-4 NT. Raji doesn't seem to be anything like Sapp. Raji is much bigger than Sapp but not as athletic.

Both of these characteristics are crucial. The comparison to Sapp is due to body type and ability to use leverage to make or disrupt plays.

If Sapp easily would have been a dominant 3-4 ng early in his career.

[rbaloha1]

Aside from being a pothead, Raji is not in the Sapp mold, Sapp was a 300lb penetrator, Raji is a 340lb wall. Sapp was smaller that Cullen Jenkins. Raji is much more similar to Vince when he came out.

It isn't concerning to anybody that Raji was dominated 1 on 1 in the senior bowl vs. Mack and Wood? He made mincemeat of Unger, but the mauler C's can handle him by themselves.

Pickett is not beat up and aging. Where do you guys get this stuff. He's 29, in NT years that is young. He's slowing a bit and is probably better suited now to a 3-4 than a 4-3, as tackles age they get slower and more stout. That big gap between him and Kamp in Sanders' retarded scheme was to much for him to cover anymore (especially with Kamp thinking he's KGB and giving up on inside gap control in the run, something he used to excel at but is pretty bad at now). With the distance between him and the DE cut in half, he won't need to move nearly as much. He can still hold and command a double team just fine and would destroy any C in the league 1 on 1.

The fact remains that the NT is a situational player. A good % of the time when the nickel defense is on the field, the NT is on the bench. Unlike most 4-3 defenses where the SLB takes a seat.

IMO the most important lineman is the strong DE. He's typically the guy in the A gap in nickel defense, and has to play the part of the NT if they run out of a passing set. Harrell is penciled in there now surely, but nobody else on the team is suited to it. Hood and Moala are those guys in this draft. That is what Ngata's role has been for most of his career thus far, just a situational NT on sub packages and DE in base sets. Raji can't do that.

If you want to judge Raji on drills vs. play at BC be my guest. Third down is dictated by what happens on downs 1 and 2.

If teams are able to run for 5-7 yards on first down due to poor ng play the defense is in serious trouble (see Packers 08 defense).

[SnakeLH2006]

Snake likes it...Now we can all get a BJ...Some may not like how they got it, some may love it regardless, but bottom line we all are happier with a BJ.

Snake don't care about the weed shit...Guy's prob. not too bright, but athletically/college prowess is off the chart and exactly what we need at 3-4 NT...Christ..he was going #2 in the latest draft polls...Who gives a shit if he likes to toke? He's prob. just not too bright, but didn't kill NE1 at a stoplight, so I'd still take him.

Christ...Snake just got back from Vegas today. Snake used to toke in college and did quite well academically. Then again, he met some smokin' college hotties from Phoenix who liked to party all day on Wed. at the Rio. I won't even tell you half the shit Snake did, yet I left happy and in one piece. BJ's are great. Let's all get one at #9. :lol: 8-)

[DonHutson]

The only thing wrong with Pickett is that he played way too many snaps last year. So yes, we need a capable backup for him. That backup does not necessarily need to be filled with the #1 pick. It certainly doesn't require taking on a major character risk with a top ten pick.

I'm hoping Ron Brace is still around in the 2nd.

[wist43]

I'd love to see Raji drop to 9, and TT take him, but Raji comes with some risk now... he will automatically go into the leagues substance abuse program, and comes with one strike.

Doubt TT would be willing to take a chance.

[Gunakor]

I'd love to see Raji drop to 9, and TT take him, but Raji comes with some risk now... he will automatically go into the leagues substance abuse program, and comes with one strike.

Doubt TT would be willing to take a chance.

He took a chance on a serious injury risk in Harrell, you don't think he'd take a chance on a character risk with greater upside like Raji if he were there for us?

I think he might, depending on how serious this is. I think some people have blown it out of proportion. Like those saying he's going to prison or some dumb shit like that. It might be just that - a first strike and entry into the leagues substance abuse program. He wouldn't be the first, and if that's all it is, I think I take him anyway.

[red]

I'd love to see Raji drop to 9, and TT take him, but Raji comes with some risk now... he will automatically go into the leagues substance abuse program, and comes with one strike.

Doubt TT would be willing to take a chance.

He took a chance on a serious injury risk in Harrell, you don't think he'd take a chance on a character risk with greater upside like Raji if he were there for us?

I think he might, depending on how serious this is. I think some people have blown it out of proportion. Like those saying he's going to prison or some dumb shit like that. It might be just that - a first strike and entry into the leagues substance abuse program. He wouldn't be the first, and if that's all it is, I think I take him anyway.

i don't know if TT can afford to take any risk at this point with the first pick

[Gunakor]

I'd love to see Raji drop to 9, and TT take him, but Raji comes with some risk now... he will automatically go into the leagues substance abuse program, and comes with one strike.

Doubt TT would be willing to take a chance.

He took a chance on a serious injury risk in Harrell, you don't think he'd take a chance on a character risk with greater upside like Raji if he were there for us?

I think he might, depending on how serious this is. I think some people have blown it out of proportion. Like those saying he's going to prison or some dumb shit like that. It might be just that - a first strike and entry into the leagues substance abuse program. He wouldn't be the first, and if that's all it is, I think I take him anyway.

i don't know if TT can afford to take any risk at this point with the first pick

I think he can. Unlike most on here, I'm with TPB in that I like most of the players on our team already. I don't think we need a DE as badly as some do. I don't think OLB is necessarily a top priority either. I think the depth at CB is better than most give them credit for. The only two positions I see as ones we MUST hit on are NT and RT. And I feel personally that if you miss out on Raji then you've missed at NT.

[DonHutson]

He took a chance on a serious injury risk in Harrell, you don't think he'd take a chance on a character risk with greater upside like Raji if he were there for us?

Injuries are usually, but not always, temporary.

Being a dumbass is usually, but not always, permanent.

I can't think of any major character risk that Ted has taken on the first day. Add in that Ted doesn't really recognize need as a reason to draft somebody and there's no overwhelming reason why I would expect him to draft Raji, and a big reason for him not to.

If it was just this one incident, it might not be a huge deal. But if he got caught smoking before, and the credit snafu that got him suspended - there's a pattern of a lack of accountability there.

[DonHutson]

Oh, and I said it before and I'll say it again...

Bengals

Raiders

Don't be shocked if either one renders this discussion moot.

[wist43]

I'd love to see Raji drop to 9, and TT take him, but Raji comes with some risk now... he will automatically go into the leagues substance abuse program, and comes with one strike.

Doubt TT would be willing to take a chance.

He took a chance on a serious injury risk in Harrell, you don't think he'd take a chance on a character risk with greater upside like Raji if he were there for us?

I think he might, depending on how serious this is. I think some people have blown it out of proportion. Like those saying he's going to prison or some dumb shit like that. It might be just that - a first strike and entry into the leagues substance abuse program. He wouldn't be the first, and if that's all it is, I think I take him anyway.

i don't know if TT can afford to take any risk at this point with the first pick

Like Odell Thurman... GM's can do something we can't, they can sit down and look these kids in the eye. Just b/c the talent is there doesn't mean they'll be a player; then too, a guy who smokes a joint or two isn't necessarily the next Charles Manson.

I tend to be a pretty good judge of character, and have hired and fired; I've passed on some people with what looked like good resumes, and I've hired others who, on paper, didn't look as good, simply based on how they comport themselves, and looking them in the eye.

We can read magazines, watch college games, etc... but when it comes to character, there's no substitute for an in-person interview.

As for the idea that TT would, or wouldn't take a chance on a guy... I think he would, but Raji has put himself into the "boom or bust" catagory and I don't see TT as taking chances on those types of guys.

TT coughed up a fur ball with the Harrell pick, but I don't think he viewed Harrell as a "boom or bust" type guy; I think he made that pick thinking that Harrell was a legit player, and that he really wasn't taking a chance.

[The Shadow]

I am now wondering if TT is eying the Broncos 12th and 18th, as well as our extra #3, and calculating how badly Denver would like Sanchez........
Could a deal be brokered?

[wist43]

I am now wondering if TT is eying the Broncos 12th and 18th, as well as our extra #3, and calculating how badly Denver would like Sanchez........
Could a deal be brokered?

Don't see that happening at all... 9 might be a good wheeling and dealing spot, but can't see giving up another 1st just to move up 3 spots.

Sanchez has looked good in shorts this offseason, but there's enough bad film of him that I don't think that scenario would play out.

[The Shadow]

I am now wondering if TT is eying the Broncos 12th and 18th, as well as our extra #3, and calculating how badly Denver would like Sanchez........
Could a deal be brokered?

Don't see that happening at all... 9 might be a good wheeling and dealing spot, but can't see giving up another 1st just to move up 3 spots.

Sanchez has looked good in shorts this offseason, but there's enough bad film of him that I don't think that scenario would play out.

What about if another 3 (or 2) was factored in?

[Bretsky]

#12 and #18 would be awesome.

We could grab Tyson Jackson and a LB like Clay Matthews

[The Shadow]

#12 and #18 would be awesome.

We could grab Tyson Jackson and a LB like Clay Matthews

I think that we now need to focus more on adding more impact types over depth, and 12 & 18 would address that nicely.

[wist43]

I am now wondering if TT is eying the Broncos 12th and 18th, as well as our extra #3, and calculating how badly Denver would like Sanchez........
Could a deal be brokered?

Don't see that happening at all... 9 might be a good wheeling and dealing spot, but can't see giving up another 1st just to move up 3 spots.

Sanchez has looked good in shorts this offseason, but there's enough bad film of him that I don't think that scenario would play out.

What about if another 3 (or 2) was factored in?

That's probably more doable... I don't have a value chart handy, but even that is relative depending on how a team rates the overall depth of the draft.

As I've been saying, and Ron Wolf used to say, at some point you have to attach names to draft picks... it's all well and good to say I'll take a 2nd, or a 3rd, but if a team has 78 players rated as 3rd round or better, can they accept a 3rd round choice at pick 94, and feel like they're getting full value??? It would all depend on how that team has their board stacked.

In the end, I seriously doubt Denver would be willing to part with both 1st's anyway... besides, does TT really want two 1st rounders??? Have to pay out all that money???

TT would rather have 32 7th rounders :wink:

[wist43]

#12 and #18 would be awesome.

We could grab Tyson Jackson and a LB like Clay Matthews

I think that we now need to focus more on adding more impact types over depth, and 12 & 18 would address that nicely.

I agree... I want more quality instead of quantity, but that's not Ted's style.

Be rest assured, that we're going to get another flurry of trade downs, and a bushel full of draft picks... probably not any impact players.

4 years, how many draft picks??? 45 or so??? 1 impact player, but mostly mid-low level starters and backups. Expect more of the same, sans an impact guy.

[wist43]

Wow, came aboard 3 years ago today... :)

Seems like a lifetime ago from JS Packerplus forum, doesn't it???

I know I as one of the last refugees to come over from there... :D

[Fritz]

#12 and #18 would be awesome.

We could grab Tyson Jackson and a LB like Clay Matthews

I think that we now need to focus more on adding more impact types over depth, and 12 & 18 would address that nicely.

I agree... I want more quality instead of quantity, but that's not Ted's style.

Be rest assured, that we're going to get another flurry of trade downs, and a bushel full of draft picks... probably not any impact players.

4 years, how many draft picks??? 45 or so??? 1 impact player, but mostly mid-low level starters and backups. Expect more of the same, sans an impact guy.

Wist, I'm gonna call you out on this crazy statement....again. One impact player? Would that be Rodgers or Jennings or Collins? would Colledge be a "mid or low level starter"? Is Blackmon a mediocre returner?

[wist43]

#12 and #18 would be awesome.

We could grab Tyson Jackson and a LB like Clay Matthews

I think that we now need to focus more on adding more impact types over depth, and 12 & 18 would address that nicely.

I agree... I want more quality instead of quantity, but that's not Ted's style.

Be rest assured, that we're going to get another flurry of trade downs, and a bushel full of draft picks... probably not any impact players.

4 years, how many draft picks??? 45 or so??? 1 impact player, but mostly mid-low level starters and backups. Expect more of the same, sans an impact guy.

Wist, I'm gonna call you out on this crazy statement....again. One impact player? Would that be Rodgers or Jennings or Collins? would Colledge be a "mid or low level starter"? Is Blackmon a mediocre returner?

Not sold on Rodgers... he was good, but choked in crunch time; he still has to prove to me he can stay healthy for more than one season - no one was more surprised than I was that he was able to stay on the field, and that he did play fairly well, sans the choking; prior to last year, the guy sure looked like a nancy-boy.

Collins made the pro bowl, but I don't consider him a pro bowl player... made some big plays earlier in the year, is probably the fastest guy on the team, and cut down on the mental mistakes; but, he still misses too many tackles, still takes bad angles, and still can't be trusted to align the defense - he's not a very bright guy, and he's certainly not going to get any smarter. Collins can't be trusted with the mental side of the game...
there was a reason they went out and got Smith (which is shocking in and of itself - TT actually signed a FA).

Colledge??? Gimme a break... if he didn't have a 10 cent head, he'd probably be a player. He's just way to inconsistent to be considered anything better than average - at best. Went back and looked at the Houston game... wow, was he awful.

The one guy you can count on is Jennings.

[The Shadow]

#12 and #18 would be awesome.

We could grab Tyson Jackson and a LB like Clay Matthews

I think that we now need to focus more on adding more impact types over depth, and 12 & 18 would address that nicely.

I agree... I want more quality instead of quantity, but that's not Ted's style.

Be rest assured, that we're going to get another flurry of trade downs, and a bushel full of draft picks... probably not any impact players.

4 years, how many draft picks??? 45 or so??? 1 impact player, but mostly mid-low level starters and backups. Expect more of the same, sans an impact guy.

Wist, I'm gonna call you out on this crazy statement....again. One impact player? Would that be Rodgers or Jennings or Collins? would Colledge be a "mid or low level starter"? Is Blackmon a mediocre returner?

Not sold on Rodgers... he was good, but choked in crunch time; he still has to prove to me he can stay healthy for more than one season - no one was more surprised than I was that he was able to stay on the field, and that he did play fairly well, sans the choking; prior to last year, the guy sure looked like a nancy-boy.

Collins made the pro bowl, but I don't consider him a pro bowl player... made some big plays earlier in the year, is probably the fastest guy on the team, and cut down on the mental mistakes; but, he still misses too many tackles, still takes bad angles, and still can't be trusted to align the defense - he's not a very bright guy, and he's certainly not going to get any smarter. Collins can't be trusted with the mental side of the game...
there was a reason they went out and got Smith (which is shocking in and of itself - TT actually signed a FA).

Colledge??? Gimme a break... if he didn't have a 10 cent head, he'd probably be a player. He's just way to inconsistent to be considered anything better than average - at best. Went back and looked at the Houston game... wow, was he awful.

The one guy you can count on is Jennings.


No, no, no : THAT guy was traded to the Jets for a 3rd round pick.
RODGERS is the current quarterback.

[wist43]

#12 and #18 would be awesome.

We could grab Tyson Jackson and a LB like Clay Matthews

I think that we now need to focus more on adding more impact types over depth, and 12 & 18 would address that nicely.

I agree... I want more quality instead of quantity, but that's not Ted's style.

Be rest assured, that we're going to get another flurry of trade downs, and a bushel full of draft picks... probably not any impact players.

4 years, how many draft picks??? 45 or so??? 1 impact player, but mostly mid-low level starters and backups. Expect more of the same, sans an impact guy.

Wist, I'm gonna call you out on this crazy statement....again. One impact player? Would that be Rodgers or Jennings or Collins? would Colledge be a "mid or low level starter"? Is Blackmon a mediocre returner?

Not sold on Rodgers... he was good, but choked in crunch time; he still has to prove to me he can stay healthy for more than one season - no one was more surprised than I was that he was able to stay on the field, and that he did play fairly well, sans the choking; prior to last year, the guy sure looked like a nancy-boy.

Collins made the pro bowl, but I don't consider him a pro bowl player... made some big plays earlier in the year, is probably the fastest guy on the team, and cut down on the mental mistakes; but, he still misses too many tackles, still takes bad angles, and still can't be trusted to align the defense - he's not a very bright guy, and he's certainly not going to get any smarter. Collins can't be trusted with the mental side of the game...
there was a reason they went out and got Smith (which is shocking in and of itself - TT actually signed a FA).

Colledge??? Gimme a break... if he didn't have a 10 cent head, he'd probably be a player. He's just way to inconsistent to be considered anything better than average - at best. Went back and looked at the Houston game... wow, was he awful.

The one guy you can count on is Jennings.


No, no, no : THAT guy was traded to the Jets for a 3rd round pick.
RODGERS is the current quarterback.

Sorry, my bad :lol:

[Gunakor]

Collins made the pro bowl, but I don't consider him a pro bowl player... made some big plays earlier in the year, is probably the fastest guy on the team, and cut down on the mental mistakes; but, he still misses too many tackles, still takes bad angles, and still can't be trusted to align the defense - he's not a very bright guy, and he's certainly not going to get any smarter. Collins can't be trusted with the mental side of the game...
there was a reason they went out and got Smith (which is shocking in and of itself - TT actually signed a FA).

For the record, and I know I'm nitpicking a little bit, but Anthony Smith is a SS. He's going to be competing with Bigby for the SS job. There is a reason Anthony Smith was signed, but it has nothing to do with Nick Collins.

[Waldo]

#12 and #18 would be awesome.

We could grab Tyson Jackson and a LB like Clay Matthews

I think that we now need to focus more on adding more impact types over depth, and 12 & 18 would address that nicely.

I agree... I want more quality instead of quantity, but that's not Ted's style.

Be rest assured, that we're going to get another flurry of trade downs, and a bushel full of draft picks... probably not any impact players.

4 years, how many draft picks??? 45 or so??? 1 impact player, but mostly mid-low level starters and backups. Expect more of the same, sans an impact guy.

Wist, I'm gonna call you out on this crazy statement....again. One impact player? Would that be Rodgers or Jennings or Collins? would Colledge be a "mid or low level starter"? Is Blackmon a mediocre returner?

Not sold on Rodgers... he was good, but choked in crunch time; he still has to prove to me he can stay healthy for more than one season - no one was more surprised than I was that he was able to stay on the field, and that he did play fairly well, sans the choking; prior to last year, the guy sure looked like a nancy-boy.

Collins made the pro bowl, but I don't consider him a pro bowl player... made some big plays earlier in the year, is probably the fastest guy on the team, and cut down on the mental mistakes; but, he still misses too many tackles, still takes bad angles, and still can't be trusted to align the defense - he's not a very bright guy, and he's certainly not going to get any smarter. Collins can't be trusted with the mental side of the game...
there was a reason they went out and got Smith (which is shocking in and of itself - TT actually signed a FA).

Colledge??? Gimme a break... if he didn't have a 10 cent head, he'd probably be a player. He's just way to inconsistent to be considered anything better than average - at best. Went back and looked at the Houston game... wow, was he awful.

The one guy you can count on is Jennings.

Just curious.......

Does anybody play/coach/work for the Packers that you are sold on?

[Partial]

I think Wists assessment is spot on. Collins has been hot and cold. Rodgers was hot and cold. Colledge was hot and cold. Jennings was and is a super star. I think MM is a very good coach. So, there, he's someone everyone can get behind.

[pbmax]

Raji's agents are now checking in to say BJ never got the letter and the program administrator will not talk to him. Two indications that he was not on the list, if you believe them.

Had he been on the list, he should have been sent a letter and he would have been asked to call the NFL's testing outfit. Got the recap at PFT, where they have posted the agent's letter/press release.

[red]

Raji's agents are now checking in to say BJ never got the letter and the program administrator will not talk to him. Two indications that he was not on the list, if you believe them.

Had he been on the list, he should have been sent a letter and he would have been asked to call the NFL's testing outfit. Got the recap at PFT, where they have posted the agent's letter/press release.

the agent makes some good points. heres the article


“Last Thursday, at least two websites [SI.com and NFLDraftBible.com] published malicious rumors — characterized as fact — that our client BJ Raji failed a drug test at the NFL Combine, citing unnamed ‘NFL team sources.’ On Friday, the NFL issued a statement challenging the foundation for these reports and indicating that neither the League, nor its member clubs, know the results of drug or steroid tests taken at the 2009 Combine and that the independent medical advisors who administer the tests have notified in writing those players — and only those players — who tested positive at the Combine. BJ Raji has NOT received any letter from the NFL or the Independent Administrator indicating that he tested positive for drugs at the Combine. Further, after these unsubstantiated reports surfaced, BJ contacted the independent medical advisor’s office (Dr. Brown) to confirm that he had not been sent any letter and has not been entered into the NFL’s Drug Intervention Program. BJ did not receive a return call from Dr. Brown, but learned today that Dr. Brown is not allowed to talk to any player directly unless that player was sent a letter informing him that he had failed a drug test at the NFL Combine and/or been instructed to contact Dr. Brown. That Dr. Brown will not talk to BJ — as Dr. Brown would otherwise be expected to do under the NFL Substance Abuse Policy if BJ had failed a drug test or being sent a letter directing him to contact the medical advisor’s office — is further proof that these reports are untrue.

“In short and as we have known all along, the media reports accusing BJ of a failed drug test at the Combine are false. Given the cowardly attacks and damage to BJ’s character as a result of these vicious rumors, we sincerely hope that the responsible parties are discovered and held accountable for their actions. For the sake of BJ and his family, we look forward to putting this hurtful allegation behind them and seeing BJ fulfill his lifetime dream of being drafted by an NFL team.”

[SnakeLH2006]

#12 and #18 would be awesome.

We could grab Tyson Jackson and a LB like Clay Matthews

I think that we now need to focus more on adding more impact types over depth, and 12 & 18 would address that nicely.

I agree... I want more quality instead of quantity, but that's not Ted's style.

Be rest assured, that we're going to get another flurry of trade downs, and a bushel full of draft picks... probably not any impact players.

4 years, how many draft picks??? 45 or so??? 1 impact player, but mostly mid-low level starters and backups. Expect more of the same, sans an impact guy.

Wist, I'm gonna call you out on this crazy statement....again. One impact player? Would that be Rodgers or Jennings or Collins? would Colledge be a "mid or low level starter"? Is Blackmon a mediocre returner?

Not sold on Rodgers... he was good, but choked in crunch time; he still has to prove to me he can stay healthy for more than one season - no one was more surprised than I was that he was able to stay on the field, and that he did play fairly well, sans the choking; prior to last year, the guy sure looked like a nancy-boy.

Collins made the pro bowl, but I don't consider him a pro bowl player... made some big plays earlier in the year, is probably the fastest guy on the team, and cut down on the mental mistakes; but, he still misses too many tackles, still takes bad angles, and still can't be trusted to align the defense - he's not a very bright guy, and he's certainly not going to get any smarter. Collins can't be trusted with the mental side of the game...
there was a reason they went out and got Smith (which is shocking in and of itself - TT actually signed a FA).

Colledge??? Gimme a break... if he didn't have a 10 cent head, he'd probably be a player. He's just way to inconsistent to be considered anything better than average - at best. Went back and looked at the Houston game... wow, was he awful.

The one guy you can count on is Jennings.

Wist you are pretty spot on with Snake's assessment, albeit with a bit more angst, lol.

Collins MAY be Pro-Bowl worthy, but the jury's out till we seem him for a 2nd year of greatness esp. after moving into a new scheme.

Jennings = Beast. Yep.

Arod..I wavered on him all year nitpicking games, but his body of work (and healthy all year) made me waive my bitching about his late-game antics as he was a 1st year starter. This cat may be the man.

Colledge...YEP!! This guy is average on his best day and can't believe some Rats love this guy. As Beyonce says, "gotta gotta upgrade". He's had his chance, and on his best day is strictly JAG.

[red]

the original story has now been removed from si.com. rji and his agent have both come out and made cases against this news

why would they lie?

the teams are going to get the list at some point anyways, and if raji is on it, he would only look like not only a pot head but also a liar now. his stock would drop even more

so, if he was smoking hash, then why in the hell would he come out and deny it so much?

[Fritz]

the original story has now been removed from si.com. rji and his agent have both come out and made cases against this news

why would they lie?

the teams are going to get the list at some point anyways, and if raji is on it, he would only look like not only a pot head but also a liar now. his stock would drop even more

so, if he was smoking hash, then why in the hell would he come out and deny it so much?

Because he's high!

[Patler]

the agent makes some good points. heres the article


“.... Further, after these unsubstantiated reports surfaced, BJ contacted the independent medical advisor’s office (Dr. Brown) to confirm that he had not been sent any letter and has not been entered into the NFL’s Drug Intervention Program. BJ did not receive a return call from Dr. Brown, but learned today that Dr. Brown is not allowed to talk to any player directly unless that player was sent a letter informing him that he had failed a drug test at the NFL Combine and/or been instructed to contact Dr. Brown. ....”

let's see;
It was Raji' piss, or blood or whatever that was tested.
He called to discuss the results of that sample.
and the DR. isn't allowed to talk to him about his own results?

The privacy concerns are all out of wack when the DR. cant even talk to the man about his own results! :roll:

[swede]

Thank God for the Whizzinator Pro-Pack, eh Raji...

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dsteenswede44/the-original-whizzinator.gif

EDIT: The skin tones are also available in Octaroon, Mandingo, and Ebony.

[mission]

Thank God for the Whizzinator Pro-Pack, eh Raji...

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dsteenswede44/the-original-whizzinator.gif

EDIT: The skin tones are also available in Octaroon, Mandingo, and Ebony.

If they have different colors, do they have different sizes? :lol:







:oops: :roll: