Kampman on the Trading Block?

[mr_blonde]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-potentialtrades040209&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

I kinda doubt it but what could Kampman bring if the Pack were willing to trade him?

[red]

i would think we could get something close to what the chiefs got for allen, a first and 2 thirds

[hoosier]

This is going to be considered heresy by some Packers fans, particularly since Kampman recorded 37 sacks over the past three seasons. However, in switching to the 3-4 defense under defensive coordinator Dom Capers, the Packers have put in a system where Kampman is going to be extremely limited. In short, Kampman is a high-motor athlete who operates best when he can attack a right offensive tackle from a three-point stance, using his initial burst and knowledge of hand techniques. When the Packers put Kampman out farther on the edge in a 3-4, his skills will be diminished. Furthermore, he’s never dropped into coverage on a regular basis, so that’s going to be a shock. Unless the Packers find a way to highlight Kampman’s strengths in some other way, he just doesn’t work in this system.


I have no idea who Jason Cole is, but what does he know about Kampman's success? A result of his "knowledge of hand techniques"? And why will his "skills" diminish when he lines up as a LOLB instead of a LE? Maybe Cole means his effectiveness will diminish.....

Whatever. Without seeing (a) what kind of alignments Capers implements as GB transitions from the Bates 4-3 and (b) without seeing Kampman actually play a year or more under this new defense, it's very hard to predict exactly what's going to happen. The 2009 Packers defesnse are not going to much like the 2008 Packers, but they probably won't resemble the 2008 Stelers very much either. Capers claims to be open to designing his schemes to suit his players' strengths. And GB probably couldn't get much more than a 2nd round draft pick for Kampman. No way would I trade a high effort, successful player for a 2.

[Lurker64]

Whatever. Without seeing (a) what kind of alignments Capers implements as GB transitions from the Bates 4-3 and (b) without seeing Kampman actually play a year or more under this new defense, it's very hard to predict exactly what's going to happen.

Well for an answer to (a), I imagine the way that he transitions the Bates 4-3 to the Capers 3-4 in Green Bay will be very similar to the way he transitioned the Bates 4-3 to the Capers 3-4 in Miami in 2006.

[HarveyWallbangers]

You know Cole doesn't know that much about Kampman when he calls him a high motor (e.g. athletically limited). Kind of funny that he has never been able to shake that tag. We'll see. I sent him a comment that Kampman played some LB at Iowa and that he ran a 4.65 40 coming out, so he's not as limited athletically as some seem to think.

[Noodle]

I agree that "high motor" can mean "athletically limited" or simply "white." But I think in Kampman's case it also describes his style. A term that also describes this style without the baggage of "high motor" is "relentless."

And I'd certainly call Kampman that to his face.

[mission]

Im not saying this is gonna happen or anything but wouldn't it be cool if Kampman took a big leap forward instead of regressing like we seem to be focusing on. Who knows, maybe he falls off the face of the earth, but part of me thinks he could really have an all-around year and get noticed outside of GB ... 4 ints, a couple TDs, few PFs.. 15 sacks.. I guess we'll see!

(I just wanted to be the first one to say it :oops:)

[packers11]

http://www.nfl.com/players/demarcusware/profile?id=WAR350675

Tell me how often he drops into coverage... Since my friend is a Cowboys fan , I watch most of the their games... D-Ware rushes the passer over 80% of the time....

Kampman will be fine, its not like the Packers will ask him to cover 50%+ of the time...

[Partial]

He'll be fine imo. It might actually improve his stats as Mission says. He won't be in coverage nearly enough to get those picks, but I could easily see 15 sacks if they land Maybin or Osackpo to line up opposite.

[rbaloha1]

Someone stole my idea. LOL If the price is right make the deal. The draft is filled with 3-4 personnel.

AK is a 4-3 end not a 3-4 olb.

[Gunakor]

Someone stole my idea. LOL If the price is right make the deal. The draft is filled with 3-4 personnel.

AK is a 4-3 end not a 3-4 olb.

Except what if he plays OLB for us this year and does well? Is he a 3-4 OLB then?

The guy played linebacker in college. It's not as if he's brand new to this.

[Dylan McKay]

You know Cole doesn't know that much about Kampman when he calls him a high motor (e.g. athletically limited). Kind of funny that he has never been able to shake that tag. We'll see. I sent him a comment that Kampman played some LB at Iowa and that he ran a 4.65 40 coming out, so he's not as limited athletically as some seem to think.

I think what he really wanted to say is that he is "white guy you know all those honkeys gotta have a good motor, and lots of heart."

[rbaloha1]

Someone stole my idea. LOL If the price is right make the deal. The draft is filled with 3-4 personnel.

AK is a 4-3 end not a 3-4 olb.

Except what if he plays OLB for us this year and does well? Is he a 3-4 OLB then?

The guy played linebacker in college. It's not as if he's brand new to this.

What if he does not? Based on his career AK has demonstrated being a dominant 4-3 end. What does high school have to do with the now?

[Gunakor]

Someone stole my idea. LOL If the price is right make the deal. The draft is filled with 3-4 personnel.

AK is a 4-3 end not a 3-4 olb.

Except what if he plays OLB for us this year and does well? Is he a 3-4 OLB then?

The guy played linebacker in college. It's not as if he's brand new to this.

What if he does not? Based on his career AK has demonstrated being a dominant 4-3 end. What does high school have to do with the now?

Now which is it, either he's NOT a 3-4 OLB, or he MIGHT not be a 3-4 OLB. You said he's not, and asked what if he is. Then you respond with this. So you don't know if he's an OLB or not. Thank you, that's all I wanted.

At least give the guy a chance to fail at OLB before saying he's a failure at OLB.

[rbaloha1]

Someone stole my idea. LOL If the price is right make the deal. The draft is filled with 3-4 personnel.

AK is a 4-3 end not a 3-4 olb.

Except what if he plays OLB for us this year and does well? Is he a 3-4 OLB then?

The guy played linebacker in college. It's not as if he's brand new to this.

What if he does not? Based on his career AK has demonstrated being a dominant 4-3 end. What does high school have to do with the now?

Now which is it, either he's NOT a 3-4 OLB, or he MIGHT not be a 3-4 OLB. You said he's not, and asked what if he is. Then you respond with this. So you don't know if he's an OLB or not. Thank you, that's all I wanted.

At least give the guy a chance to fail at OLB before saying he's a failure at OLB.

Why let AK fail if a potential good deal exists with a team outside of the NFC north?

[Gunakor]

Someone stole my idea. LOL If the price is right make the deal. The draft is filled with 3-4 personnel.

AK is a 4-3 end not a 3-4 olb.

Except what if he plays OLB for us this year and does well? Is he a 3-4 OLB then?

The guy played linebacker in college. It's not as if he's brand new to this.

What if he does not? Based on his career AK has demonstrated being a dominant 4-3 end. What does high school have to do with the now?

Now which is it, either he's NOT a 3-4 OLB, or he MIGHT not be a 3-4 OLB. You said he's not, and asked what if he is. Then you respond with this. So you don't know if he's an OLB or not. Thank you, that's all I wanted.

At least give the guy a chance to fail at OLB before saying he's a failure at OLB.

Why let AK fail if a potential good deal exists with a team outside of the NFC north?

Because I don't think AK will fail.

[rbaloha1]

Someone stole my idea. LOL If the price is right make the deal. The draft is filled with 3-4 personnel.

AK is a 4-3 end not a 3-4 olb.

Except what if he plays OLB for us this year and does well? Is he a 3-4 OLB then?

The guy played linebacker in college. It's not as if he's brand new to this.

What if he does not? Based on his career AK has demonstrated being a dominant 4-3 end. What does high school have to do with the now?

Now which is it, either he's NOT a 3-4 OLB, or he MIGHT not be a 3-4 OLB. You said he's not, and asked what if he is. Then you respond with this. So you don't know if he's an OLB or not. Thank you, that's all I wanted.

At least give the guy a chance to fail at OLB before saying he's a failure at OLB.

Why let AK fail if a potential good deal exists with a team outside of the NFC north?

Because I don't think AK will fail.

If a team offered a number one in the 09 draft along with other picks or a player would you make the deal? I certainly would.

[Gunakor]

Someone stole my idea. LOL If the price is right make the deal. The draft is filled with 3-4 personnel.

AK is a 4-3 end not a 3-4 olb.

Except what if he plays OLB for us this year and does well? Is he a 3-4 OLB then?

The guy played linebacker in college. It's not as if he's brand new to this.

What if he does not? Based on his career AK has demonstrated being a dominant 4-3 end. What does high school have to do with the now?

Now which is it, either he's NOT a 3-4 OLB, or he MIGHT not be a 3-4 OLB. You said he's not, and asked what if he is. Then you respond with this. So you don't know if he's an OLB or not. Thank you, that's all I wanted.

At least give the guy a chance to fail at OLB before saying he's a failure at OLB.

Why let AK fail if a potential good deal exists with a team outside of the NFC north?

Because I don't think AK will fail.

If a team offered a number one in the 09 draft along with other picks or a player would you make the deal? I certainly would.

Who are our OLB's this year then? Rookies? On BOTH sides? I'll pass.

[mission]

BTW my INT numbers were based more on those trickery type of picks... maybe a couple zone drops into the hook/curl zone for a pick on a slant, maybe another on a tip ball, another cutting off an RB in the flat... I don't think he'll be out there running well with guys down the sideline and coming up with those kinds of picks... I could just see him getting schemed into opportune situations at times if Capers plays out how I think he will...

[Lurker64]

I would prefer not to trade Kampman. Right now we need 1 starting caliber OLB. If we traded Kampman, we'd need two. Unless we somehow manage to land, say, Maybin and Barwin in rounds 1 and 2, we kind of need Kampman this year.

[Partial]

You know Cole doesn't know that much about Kampman when he calls him a high motor (e.g. athletically limited). Kind of funny that he has never been able to shake that tag. We'll see. I sent him a comment that Kampman played some LB at Iowa and that he ran a 4.65 40 coming out, so he's not as limited athletically as some seem to think.

You can't say Kampman ran a 4.65 when you discounted the Peppers' campus workout times that I posted. No way is Kampy a 4.65 guy. He's athletic and I think he'll do well, but c'mon Harv, you can't pick and choose what 40 times to be legit.

[Partial]

Except what if he plays OLB for us this year and does well? Is he a 3-4 OLB then?

The guy played linebacker in college. It's not as if he's brand new to this.

While I think he'll do fine, there is ZERO resemblance between college LB in the slow big 10 and playing OLB in the NFL.

He's starting fresh. Capers is going to have to cater the system to the bodies that are there now. I don't think you'll see Kampman back in coverage more than a few plays here or there. He will rush the passer on just about every opportunity.

[run pMc]

I doubt they trade him. Who else can rush the passer? Also, I'm buying into JSO reporter comments about how a young team like this needs veteran leaders.

I'd like to see whether he can play OLB it or not before trading him. If he can't there are plenty of 4-3 teams that would take him.

[wist43]

As Capers does claim to be tailoring his scheme toward the existing players strengths, I highly doubt we'll be seeing the 3-4 as much as people think.

The Packers defensive players were drafted for, and they fit a 4-3... I don't think I'm going out on a limb saying that. Kampman is a 4-3 LDE IMO, and almost strictly that. Going out on a limb is to say that Kamp with bill a Pro Bowl OLB.

That said, I'd prefer to see them go all out in going over to a 3-4, so to that end, I would like to see him traded... I love Kamp, but he simply isn't a good fit in a 3-4, and he has a lot of value right now to teams looking for a Pro Bowl 4-3 DE.

[cpk1994]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-potentialtrades040209&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

I kinda doubt it but what could Kampman bring if the Pack were willing to trade him?He isn't. This is a writer making up fantasy.

[3irty1]

It'd be a huge mistake to trade Kampman. While I don't think this move will greatly improve him I see no reason why it would render him useless either. While the very limited coverage he'll be in might not be his strong suit there are other advantages to giving him a more versatile role. Kampman is one of the smartest players on our defense. I've heard his team describe him as another coach on the field. I think its to our advantage to give him give him the ability to read the formation and decide where to line up.

[HarveyWallbangers]

You can't say Kampman ran a 4.65 when you discounted the Peppers' campus workout times that I posted. No way is Kampy a 4.65 guy. He's athletic and I think he'll do well, but c'mon Harv, you can't pick and choose what 40 times to be legit.

Ummm... completely different argument. You said Peppers ran 4.4 at NC--which I'm assuming meant the UNC staffed time him when he was in college. Those times I don't trust. You can't judge a guy until NFL scouts time him. Plus, some of those times you read in college are from when a player got to campus and didn't put on the bulk that they have at the end of college careers. Campus workouts are more legit, but you have to be aware of the surface (e.g. is it a fast track or not). You said he ran 4.4 at UNC, but then he tested at 4.75 at the combine. I don't believe the 4.4 time. At all. You don't lose that much on your time by having a bad day. You may lose a tenth of a second, but not 0.35 seconds. The difference here is that an NFL scout timed Kampman's 4.65 AND we don't have verifiable proof that the time is likely questionable--like Peppers with his 4.4 and 4.75.

[sharpe1027]

I don't pretend to know whether AK will or will not succeed next year in the 3-4 defense but I am a little perplexed at the people who seem so sure he will fail. If not putting his hand down makes this huge difference (which I have my doubts) and will be like kryptonite for him, wouldn't they let him put his hand down? Would that mean he would not be able to occasional drop back into coverage or sometimes not put his hand down? As for the coverage, from what I have read his slotted position as 3-4 OLB is not asked to cover man on man. It will be mostly zone drops and other things designed to catch the QB by surprise. Hell, defensive tackles do that for teams in zone blitz schemes.


Bottom line, there is no reason to keep his salary if he is not going to be on the field all the time and making plays.

If AK get's traded, then Capers didn't think he would fit well. If Capers likes his ability and thinks he can succeed, I have no reason to doubt him.

[DonHutson]

Lame attempt to fill a "journalism" deadline + one dude's opinion that Kampman doesn't fit a 3-4 DOES NOT EQUAL Kampman on the trading block.

One idiot thinking he should be on the block does not put him there... unless that idiot is Ted Thompson, I suppose. The Packers have expressed nothing but optimism that Kampman will work out fine, and personally I share that optimism.

[pbmax]

I appreciate Harv's sentiments, but I don't think high-motor has yet crossed over into code for "slow, white guy" like some other terms; lunch pail/bucket, heady, coach on the field, possession receiver, Wayne Chrebet type, etc.

But I think Cole asks a legitimate question, and it comes from talking to legitimate sources: coaches. Kampman's role is up in the air and I think its far from certain how he will do.

The coaches that Cole talked to do not know how much of the tailoring wist mentioned that Capers plans to do, nor do we know how much of his linebacker skills Kampman will remember from 1998 and 1999. But its a fair question before we have seen him play a single snap.

[Patler]

But I think Cole asks a legitimate question, and it comes from talking to legitimate sources: coaches. Kampman's role is up in the air and I think its far from certain how he will do.

The coaches that Cole talked to do not know how much of the tailoring wist mentioned that Capers plans to do, nor do we know how much of his linebacker skills Kampman will remember from 1998 and 1999. But its a fair question before we have seen him play a single snap.

The problem I have with the article is that Cole is not asking a question, he has reached a conclusion. The conclusion is that Kampman will not be successful and therefore should be traded.

[DonHutson]

The problem I have with the article is that Cole is not asking a question, he has reached a conclusion. The conclusion is that Kampman will not be successful and therefore should be traded.

I agree, although he really started with a (fairly lame) concept, then shoehorned a bunch of conclusions into that framework.

[texaspackerbacker]

Lame attempt to fill a "journalism" deadline + one dude's opinion that Kampman doesn't fit a 3-4 DOES NOT EQUAL Kampman on the trading block.

One idiot thinking he should be on the block does not put him there... unless that idiot is Ted Thompson, I suppose. The Packers have expressed nothing but optimism that Kampman will work out fine, and personally I share that optimism.

Exactly! That article was a typically pitiful display of media idiocy.

No way in hell the Packers trade Kampman. He should do just fine as a 3-4 OLB. No way in hell the Packers even need another 3-4 OLB.

Most of the other points in the article, however, are just as worthless--either so obvious that they aren't worth discussing or so off-the-wall that they don't merit discussing.