NFL Networks Draft Analysis the Pack

[Bretsky]

They are doing detailed analysis of each team and they recently covered the Pack. They have a panel that looks at the team along with a former GM in Charlie Casserly.

What was interesting is they analyzed Green Bay and found their two main weaknesses at OT and OLB. And they based their predications purely off of need. TTT,in the past, has often stated he'd go Best Player Available, but their predictions seemed to ignore this fact.

Most of them have Green Bay taking a OT in round one and a OLB in round two.

Ealier some were predicting Andre Smith, and talented dude with character concerns.

Now today they predicted the Pack would take the 4th best OT in Michael Oher

Then predicted GB would address it's OLB weakness with Larry English in round two


They seem pretty sure Raji and Orakpo will be gone when Green Bay Drafts. They are also predicting Michael Crabtree is the guy who will fall into the 10-15 range. They all think he's the most talented WR, but apparently there are questions about his character as well.

[TheCheese]

They are doing detailed analysis of each team and they recently covered the Pack. They have a panel that looks at the team along with a former GM in Charlie Casserly.

What was interesting is they analyzed Green Bay and found their two main weaknesses at OT and OLB. And they based their predications purely off of need. TTT,in the past, has often stated he'd go Best Player Available, but their predictions seemed to ignore this fact.

Most of them have Green Bay taking a OT in round one and a OLB in round two.

Ealier some were predicting Andre Smith, and talented dude with character concerns.

Now today they predicted the Pack would take the 4th best OT in Michael Oher

Then predicted GB would address it's OLB weakness with Larry English in round two


They seem pretty sure Raji and Orakpo will be gone when Green Bay Drafts. They are also predicting Michael Crabtree is the guy who will fall into the 10-15 range. They all think he's the most talented WR, but apparently there are questions about his character as well.

That would be fricking awesome if he was there for our second round pick. Very unlikely though.

[Bretsky]

They are doing detailed analysis of each team and they recently covered the Pack. They have a panel that looks at the team along with a former GM in Charlie Casserly.

What was interesting is they analyzed Green Bay and found their two main weaknesses at OT and OLB. And they based their predications purely off of need. TTT,in the past, has often stated he'd go Best Player Available, but their predictions seemed to ignore this fact.

Most of them have Green Bay taking a OT in round one and a OLB in round two.

Ealier some were predicting Andre Smith, and talented dude with character concerns.

Now today they predicted the Pack would take the 4th best OT in Michael Oher

Then predicted GB would address it's OLB weakness with Larry English in round two


They seem pretty sure Raji and Orakpo will be gone when Green Bay Drafts. They are also predicting Michael Crabtree is the guy who will fall into the 10-15 range. They all think he's the most talented WR, but apparently there are questions about his character as well.

That would be fricking awesome if he was there for our second round pick. Very unlikely though.


I was thinking the same thing

They noted there will be an abundance of good OLB's in round two available

[texaspackerbacker]

Well, at least that's better than stupidly taking an OLB in the first round.

Either Smith or Monroe would be great picks, Oher not so much. I think Andre Smith falls to the Packers, and Thompson takes him. That's my prediction. If not that, Crabtree; If not that, Malcolm Jenkins.

Ideally, Thompson has the good sense not to pick an OLB in the second round either. Maybe we get a NT with that pick.

[red]

i want to know what the knock is on oher. he's either a love him or hate him type of guy

personaly i'd be find with andre smith or oher in the first, and english or clint sintim in the second. the tackle can play right tackle this year and take over for clifton next year or soon after.

if that were to happen, i'd say it was a pretty good first day

[Lurker64]

I can't see Thompson taking Andre Smith over Oher. Oher beats Smith in all the major athleticism categories that Thompson apparently uses to judge OL in:

Short Shuttle
Oher: 4.60
Smith: 4.93

3 Cone
Oher: 7.59
Smith: 7.86

When you consider that Thompson has never drafted any OL with a Short Shuttle worse than 4.6 and a 3 cone worse than 7.6, I can't imagine Smith is very high on his board at all. Oher is almost certainly above A. Smith on Thompson's board, particularly since Oher's strength is pass blocking while Smith's strength is run blocking.

Smith has long arms and a nasty demeanor (which Thompson likes) but I don't think he's nearly athletic enough to play OT for us, while Oher is and Oher also plays nasty and has long arms. Plus, it's not as though it's clear cut that Oher is the #4 OT and Smith is the #3, quite a few analysts have Oher at #3 and Smith at #4.

[wist43]

English won't be there in the 2nd... and I agree that our two biggest "needs" are OLB and OT.

That said, we have needs all over the place... OT, LB, CB, entire DL. I wouldn't mind Crabtree or Maclin. I don't see us contending for a SB for quite a while, so BPA actually works for me this year, :lol:

[bobblehead]

I think I'll be the only happy packer fan if we get Oher. He is mega talented and probably worth the reach. I'd rather have A.Smith, but most have him going before us.

Oher is the guy who they say has the most upside, but possible downside. Drafting him and working on him while Cliffy plays his last season just seems to fit.

[red]

I think I'll be the only happy packer fan if we get Oher. He is mega talented and probably worth the reach. I'd rather have A.Smith, but most have him going before us.

Oher is the guy who they say has the most upside, but possible downside. Drafting him and working on him while Cliffy plays his last season just seems to fit.

i'd be pretty happy if we got him too

[cheesner]

I think I'll be the only happy packer fan if we get Oher. He is mega talented and probably worth the reach. I'd rather have A.Smith, but most have him going before us.

Oher is the guy who they say has the most upside, but possible downside. Drafting him and working on him while Cliffy plays his last season just seems to fit.
You won't be the only one. I would be very happy with Oher. I think OT is our biggest weakness right now and I see Oher as one of the more talented ones. I would take him over A. Smith. The rap on him is that he doesn't play hard at times - the thing is, he doesn't need to. He often dominates his opponent with little effort, but he raises his effort when playing against more talented players. He seems to me that he can ignite and turn the burners on and be the best OT in the draft.

[Lurker64]

I think I'll be the only happy packer fan if we get Oher.

I'd rather have Oher than A. Smith, and I'd be content with the pick. It's less of a reach at #9 than some of the top guys that play other positions where we havee a need.

I'd certainly be happier with Oher than I would with Brown or Jenkins. I'd be more confident in Oher than I was in Orakpo or Maybin. Not only that, but Oher plays a more important position than guys like Raji or Jackson.

[sheepshead]

I can't see Thompson taking Andre Smith over Oher. Oher beats Smith in all the major athleticism categories that Thompson apparently uses to judge OL in:

Short Shuttle
Oher: 4.60
Smith: 4.93

3 Cone
Oher: 7.59
Smith: 7.86

When you consider that Thompson has never drafted any OL with a Short Shuttle worse than 4.6 and a 3 cone worse than 7.6, I can't imagine Smith is very high on his board at all. Oher is almost certainly above A. Smith on Thompson's board, particularly since Oher's strength is pass blocking while Smith's strength is run blocking.

Smith has long arms and a nasty demeanor (which Thompson likes) but I don't think he's nearly athletic enough to play OT for us, while Oher is and Oher also plays nasty and has long arms. Plus, it's not as though it's clear cut that Oher is the #4 OT and Smith is the #3, quite a few analysts have Oher at #3 and Smith at #4.

Are you for real?

[Lurker64]

Are you for real?

You don't think it's telling that Andre Smith would be the least athletic offensive lineman Thompson has ever drafted, and the least athletic member of our offensive line, besides Clifton?

Oher is at least as athletic as a bunch of the other guys we've got, and by all accounts it looks like Thompson only drafts offensive lineman that are above certain standards of athletic ability, which Oher apparently meets.

[Partial]

A) Their has been an emphasis on building a bigger, stronger, meaning line

B) The finesse linemen that have been brought in haven't shown much yet

C) While your numbers may be accurate, its also true that TT has shown in the past that he values production, and Smith defines production.

Personally, I don't know which linemen he would like more, and I'm not about to make any judgements based off of some arbitrary numbers that some of the guys he liked also happened to meet. That is foolish imo.

I don't think he's going to draft an OL in the first round. I think its going to be Orakpo, Maybin or trade down.

[Lurker64]

A) Their has been an emphasis on building a bigger, stronger, meaning line

B) The finesse linemen that have been brought in haven't shown much yet

C) While your numbers may be accurate, its also true that TT has shown in the past that he values production, and Smith defines production.

A) Oher is plenty big and strong, Andre Smith is just bigger because he has trouble controlling his weight. Oher put up more reps on the bench, and is just as stout at the point of attack, so it's not like Smith is clearly weaker.

B) Oher is not a finesse player. He's stout, powerful, and generates great push. He's just athletic in addition to the above.

C) Andre Smith is not really more productive than Oher, except from the perspective that "Alabama has a better football program than Ole Miss." Oher has been a consensus first team All-American and all-SEC for 2 and 3 years respectively running. They don't just give those out for no reason.

When you break down the two guys, both of them have a considerable question mark. Oher is a little inconsistent, because he often relied on his (considerable) natural physical talent to beat people and doesn't always show great technique. Andre Smith is immature, difficult to coach, has a ton of baggage, and has trouble controlling his weight. So the question of "who do you like better" really comes down to:

1) What are you really looking for in a LT?
a) Pass-Blocking (Oher)
b) Run-Blocking (A. Smith)

2) Which are you you more confident in?
a) Your ability to teach Oher solid technique at LT.
b) Your ability to correct Smith's work ethic, immaturity, and get him to put down the fork.

Personally, for Green Bay, if we're taking one of the two I'd rather have Oher.

[Waldo]

Oher's issues are odd.

It isn't that he's not a good LT, that's not it at all.

He's physically capable of being Joe Thomas. He's physically capable of being better than Monroe, Andre, and Jason. But he wasn't. He still kicks the butt of all the other T's hands down, but he's only in Monroe's, Andre, and Jason's league. That is people's problem with him. He's not as good as he's supposed to be with his physical tools. He should be hands down the best LT in this class on film. The fact that he's not earns him the "inconsistent and lacks heart" tag, death to the stock of LT's. He's nearly as quick and agile on his feet as Jason (moreso than Monroe and Andre), but can generate much more explosive power in his legs than Jason, even more than Eugene, so should be a superior run blocker than both.

There is a big question as to whether Andre is actually even a LT at the pro level. Joe Thomas gave up fewer sacks in his college career (1) than Andre gave up in a half playing E. Brown (2). Andre needs help with speed. He will always struggle with the Dwight Freeneys and will need help with them. He is a Mn/Pit LT, teams that move the ball by running you over. He is not and never will be a shutdown LT that allows zero pressure from the edge. That isn't his game. He's a good enough pass blocker for some/most (depends on how well he plays at the pro level and his weight), but a dominant run blocker.

For sake of comparison, Colledge neither struggles with speed or power, he struggles with length. His arms are only 33" (Oher's are 33 1/2", Monroe's are 34", J. Smith's are 33 3/4", Andre's are 35 5/8"), which is right on the lower threshold for LT's. He's plenty quick to handle guys like Freeney, it's the guys like Ware and Super Mario, with very long arms, that will get him trouble. There is very little difference physically between J. Smith and Colledge, just 3/4" arm length, Daryn is just as light on his feet.

[LL2]

Oher's issues are odd.

It isn't that he's not a good LT, that's not it at all.

He's physically capable of being Joe Thomas. He's physically capable of being better than Monroe, Andre, and Jason. But he wasn't. He still kicks the butt of all the other T's hands down, but he's only in Monroe's, Andre, and Jason's league. That is people's problem with him. He's not as good as he's supposed to be with his physical tools. He should be hands down the best LT in this class on film. The fact that he's not earns him the "inconsistent and lacks heart" tag, death to the stock of LT's. He's nearly as quick and agile on his feet as Jason (moreso than Monroe and Andre), but can generate much more explosive power in his legs than Jason, even more than Eugene, so should be a superior run blocker than both.

There is a big question as to whether Andre is actually even a LT at the pro level. Joe Thomas gave up fewer sacks in his college career (1) than Andre gave up in a half playing E. Brown (2). Andre needs help with speed. He will always struggle with the Dwight Freeneys and will need help with them. He is a Mn/Pit LT, teams that move the ball by running you over. He is not and never will be a shutdown LT that allows zero pressure from the edge. That isn't his game. He's a good enough pass blocker for some/most (depends on how well he plays at the pro level and his weight), but a dominant run blocker.

For sake of comparison, Colledge neither struggles with speed or power, he struggles with length. His arms are only 33" (Oher's are 33 1/2", Monroe's are 34", J. Smith's are 33 3/4", Andre's are 35 5/8"), which is right on the lower threshold for LT's. He's plenty quick to handle guys like Freeney, it's the guys like Ware and Super Mario, with very long arms, that will get him trouble. There is very little difference physically between J. Smith and Colledge, just 3/4" arm length, Daryn is just as light on his feet.

Dude...you should be writing for a sport paper...you write some pretty good stuff.

[rbaloha1]

For sake of comparison, Colledge neither struggles with speed or power, he struggles with length. His arms are only 33" (Oher's are 33 1/2", Monroe's are 34", J. Smith's are 33 3/4", Andre's are 35 5/8"), which is right on the lower threshold for LT's. He's plenty quick to handle guys like Freeney, it's the guys like Ware and Super Mario, with very long arms, that will get him trouble. There is very little difference physically between J. Smith and Colledge, just 3/4" arm length, Daryn is just as light on his feet.

Colledge was an outstanding lt at Boise State due to his feet and athleticism.

Colledge's problems have nothing to do with arm length -- its upper body strength. At Boise State they emphasis lower body strength over upper body strength. Colledege was over powered as a result of the lack of upper body strength not shorter arms.

Colledege has improved his upper body strength and the results are noticeable. IMO still better at left tackle.

[Partial]

I'm not going to get into it, but how the F does one get a big lower body without a big strong upper body? Strong people have strong posterior chains, and as a result they have strong upper bodies as well.

It's very tough to developer a strong lower body without having a very strong upper body as well. Think of the sheer physics of how thats possible.

[red]

i had a very strong lower body without any upper body strength in high school

[rbaloha1]

Are you for real?

You don't think it's telling that Andre Smith would be the least athletic offensive lineman Thompson has ever drafted, and the least athletic member of our offensive line, besides Clifton?

Oher is at least as athletic as a bunch of the other guys we've got, and by all accounts it looks like Thompson only drafts offensive lineman that are above certain standards of athletic ability, which Oher apparently meets.

TT drafts both athletic lineman (ie, Colledge, Barbre and Moll) and less athletic lineman (Spitz, Sitton).

Drills are one measure of athleticism but not the holy grail. IMO AS is athletic enough to play whatever position.

The guy played in the SEC and is accustomed to speed rusher. If available hope TT pulls the trigger (assuming crabtree and raji are gone). Unsure how AS compares with Oher.

[wist43]

I wouldn't mind Oher... questions as to whether he can handle the mental side of the game. Heard he had a learning disability.

As for Smith, I don't think TT would rate him as highly as some of the other guys... the Packers seem to have become obsessed with a player having the "versatility" to play 16 different positions.

MM at the combine going on about this guy can play this and that, and the other guy can play that and this... in the end, they end up with "versatile" guys that may cover multiple spots, but don't really excel at any of them.

Hell, he even said he could see Bishop as an rush OLB, gimme a break.

[wist43]

Can we just draft a G, and stick him at G??? So what if he can't play cornerback!!!! :lol:

[Joemailman]

I wouldn't mind Oher... questions as to whether he can handle the mental side of the game. Heard he had a learning disability.

Not a learning disability that I know of. A disastrous childhood (Father murdered, mother addicted to drugs) and forced to fend for himself at an early age. Was eventually adopted by a family that straightened his life out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FhlbsJUJ9Q

[Lurker64]

TT drafts both athletic lineman (ie, Colledge, Barbre and Moll) and less athletic lineman (Spitz, Sitton).

However, Spitz and Sitton are both better athletes than Andre Smith.
(Spitz: SS: 4.56 3-Cone: 7.72) (Sitton: SS: 4.50 3-Cone: 7.55) (A. Smith: SS: 4.93 3-Cone: 7.86).

I'm not saying that Andre Smith is a bad player, or an unproductive player, but we're already running a scheme where lack of athleticism on the part of the LT hurts the running game, and Smith's pass blocking is not top 10 caliber. Currently we have it that the least athletic offensive lineman is the left tackle, but he's a 9 year Veteran whose pass blocking is outstanding. You don't want to "fix" that situation by replacing him with a rookie or 1-year player whose pass blocking is suspect.

[Partial]

Chad Clifton is unathletic? News to me.

[Joemailman]

Clifton has never been a particularly good run blocker. As the Packers have moved to zone blocking, and he has gotten older, he has become a liability. So, in terms of run blocking, he is less athletic than would be preferable.

[Lurker64]

Chad Clifton is unathletic? News to me.

Okay, well, he's more athletic than Andre Smith but over the past year his knees and other minor nagging injuries have held him back a lot. A lot of running plays that would have otherwise been successful over the past couple years ended up failing, since Clifton failed to get the cut block on the backside pressure.

[Partial]

I think he's a straight up jock. He's never been a good run blocker, never will be. He's a dominating pass blocker.

[Waldo]

For sake of comparison, Colledge neither struggles with speed or power, he struggles with length. His arms are only 33" (Oher's are 33 1/2", Monroe's are 34", J. Smith's are 33 3/4", Andre's are 35 5/8"), which is right on the lower threshold for LT's. He's plenty quick to handle guys like Freeney, it's the guys like Ware and Super Mario, with very long arms, that will get him trouble. There is very little difference physically between J. Smith and Colledge, just 3/4" arm length, Daryn is just as light on his feet.

Colledge was an outstanding lt at Boise State due to his feet and athleticism.

Colledge's problems have nothing to do with arm length -- its upper body strength. At Boise State they emphasis lower body strength over upper body strength. Colledege was over powered as a result of the lack of upper body strength not shorter arms.

Colledege has improved his upper body strength and the results are noticeable. IMO still better at left tackle.

I agree, I'm skeptical about drafting any of these LT, we've already got a pretty good on on the roster. He still has short arms for a LT. Not too short, 33" is generally considered the acceptable threshold, and that's what he has. But that means by pure physics, the real long armed rushers that are good with their hands will most likely give him trouble. There aren't a lot in the NFL, so it isn't too big of a concern though.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'm glad to read the good things about Oher, because I'm thinking it may well end up being him we get. I still lean toward Andre Smith, but he may be gone. Based on the above, Oher would be good whether or not A. Smith is still there, maybe a little better in the ZBS because of the slightly better athleticism.

I REALLY hope Thompson doesn't end up taking an OLB or a 3-4 DE or a NT.

OT, Crabree, or Jenkins, that's what it's got to be. After reading the above, I now would be satisfied with any of four OTs, not just three.

[Joemailman]

I think Oher is where one of those cases where how he interviews will be very important. If he can convince teams he is coachable and has the desire to be great, he could go very high. His athleticism is second to none among the OT prospects.

[Dylan McKay]

I think I'll be the only happy packer fan if we get Oher. He is mega talented and probably worth the reach. I'd rather have A.Smith, but most have him going before us.

Oher is the guy who they say has the most upside, but possible downside. Drafting him and working on him while Cliffy plays his last season just seems to fit.

i'd be pretty happy if we got him too

I wouldn't mind getting Oher or English for that matter in round 1, but I think if Crabtree is still avaliable at number 9 or Sanchez, the Packers should look to trade down in the first round and hopefully get a 2nd round pick.

Best case senario

[Joemailman]

Unless someone unexpectedly drops into the Packers lap at #9, I think the situation just begs for the Packers to trade down into the middle of the 1st round. Of course, it takes 2 to swing a trade, so you don't know if that opportunity will be there.

[red]

Unless someone unexpectedly drops into the Packers lap at #9, I think the situation just begs for the Packers to trade down into the middle of the 1st round. Of course, it takes 2 to swing a trade, so you don't know if that opportunity will be there.

thats just it, once crab and the top 3 LT's, curry, and BJ are off the board, then it seems to be a big drop off.

there really doesn't seem to be a lot of big time must have guys after that first group

it might be really tough to trade down