Mock Draft Poll for Packers Pick

[3irty1]

Off the board are:

1. Stafford
2. Jason Smith
3. Aaron Curry
4. Eugene Monroe
5. Micheal Crabtree
6. Andre Smith
7. B.J. Raji
8. Jeremy Maclin

If you select "Someone else" Please specify who.

[sheepshead]

Let it lapse.

[sheepshead]

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e102/heymike0308/draftcap.jpg


draft day cap.

[Gunakor]

If picking at #9 I could see any of the top 3 on that list. I guess I'd rather trade down and pick Jackson in the 13-19 range, but I doubt TT makes that trade given that he'd almost definitely have to give greater value in return to move out of the top 10. So, while I don't particularly like the pick a whole lot, I think Oher will be the pick in this scenario. Which means we'll be paying top 10 money and guarantees for a RT. Yuck.

[gbpackfan]

A RT for a year. Clifton will be gone after 2009 and Oher could slide over. Oher would be a great pick at 9. He is probably the best T in the draft. People are too hung up on his "learning disability." See that guy, go block him! Done deal (I know, it's not quite that easy. But if Pacman Jones, Tank Johnson, and Chad Johnson can grasp the game, Oher will be able to.)

The Packer can find a rush LB in round 2 and a 3-4 DE in round 3.

[Gunakor]

A RT for a year. Clifton will be gone after 2009 and Oher could slide over. Oher would be a great pick at 9. He is probably the best T in the draft. People are too hung up on his "learning disability." See that guy, go block him! Done deal (I know, it's not quite that easy. But if Pacman Jones, Tank Johnson, and Chad Johnson can grasp the game, Oher will be able to.)

The Packer can find a rush LB in round 2 and a 3-4 DE in round 3.

Or they could just slide Colledge over to LT for half the price and draft a RT in round 2 who is just as capable of playing RT as anyone else. When drafting they have to consider who they already have on the roster, and IMO they already have a LT to replace Clifton. No need to spend top 10 money there.

[Partial]

Then you spent 4 years developing a guard and for what? Do you spend another 4 years developing the next guy?

MM has said that Colledge is gonna stay at G if I remember correctly.

[Waldo]

A RT for a year. Clifton will be gone after 2009 and Oher could slide over. Oher would be a great pick at 9. He is probably the best T in the draft. People are too hung up on his "learning disability." See that guy, go block him! Done deal (I know, it's not quite that easy. But if Pacman Jones, Tank Johnson, and Chad Johnson can grasp the game, Oher will be able to.)

The Packer can find a rush LB in round 2 and a 3-4 DE in round 3.

No.....they can't. If Moala is off the board, the next reasonable 3-4 DE frame is in the 5th-7th round areas with Everette Pedescleux, Nadar Abdallah, and Pannel Egboah.

There is a big drop from Jackson to the next tier (Hood, Gilbert), a big drop to the next guy (Moala), and a huge free fall to the next guy, who probably isn't even good enough to make it above the PS year 1.

My pick, in this scenario is:
http://image.cdnl3.xosnetwork.com/pics22/400/XO/XOCRGNTDPETWCFE.20081103213007.jpg

The best 3-4 DE prospect to come around since Richard Seymore in 2001.

Gilbert has the frame and measurables, and can rush a bit, but is not good against the run at all, Hood has the frame and measurables and is more stout against the run, but is nowhere near the polished player. Earlier in his career, LSU actually ran some 3-4 fronts where Jackson played 5-tech.

[sheepshead]

Then you spent 4 years developing a guard and for what? Do you spend another 4 years developing the next guy?

MM has said that Colledge is gonna stay at G if I remember correctly.


Guards rarely see the end of that second contract as an active player.

[Partial]

what?

[Gunakor]

Then you spent 4 years developing a guard and for what? Do you spend another 4 years developing the next guy?

MM has said that Colledge is gonna stay at G if I remember correctly.

They spent 4 years developing a tackle into a guard. He's a natural tackle. He would have been a tackle, but we have had 2 pretty outstanding tackles ahead of him. Rather than waste him away on the sidelines they put him in at guard to get him into the game. But the fact remains that Colledge is a natural tackle, and I don't see him playing guard for his whole career. He'll be a guard until Clifton is done.

They wouldn't have had to spend 4 years developing him into a guard if he was a guard to begin with. They won't have to spend 4 years developing the next guy if the next guy they draft is, you guessed it, a GUARD. Hell, they could spend a 2nd round pick on a natural guard in the next year or two and plug him right in, and probably wouldn't lose much at the position. Colledge is not a great guard by any means. He'd be a better tackle.

This whole idea of yours that a player is what he is and cannot be anything else is really disappointing. Especially when you don't know what the player is in the first place. Colledge is a great example. Colledge is a tackle who was able to play guard. He's still a tackle. He's just playing guard. I guess he isn't who he is, is he?

[Waldo]

MM has said that Colledge is gonna stay at G if I remember correctly.

As opposed to RT.

RT isn't nearly as important as people make it out to be. You can get by and excel with a good run blocker at RT, even if he is only a mediocre pass blocker, as long as your QB isn't crap.

I do think that Colledge will give them serious pause when considering LT's however, as any LT would have to be better than Colledge, which is surely not a given with most of them.

[sheepshead]

what?

They dont last. Statistically they dont play that long. They retire. Look it up.

[BallHawk]

We must get Orakpo.

[Waldo]

what?

They dont last. Statistically they dont play that long. They retire. Look it up.

That is true for most players. Players peak between 26-31. Before that they typically are mistake prone young'uns (you are better off with them developing on the bench), after that they are injury prone and declining old guys.

It is practically a myth to take a guy "and be set for a decade." QB and LT are really the only positions where that is typically true. There are at best 5-10 players in a draft that will start for 10+ years for a single team.

Clifton has been the starter now for 8 1/2 seasons, Driver has been the starter for 7 seasons, they are the longest tenured starting Packers. I doubt either makes it to 10 full years starting for the Packers.

Basically 1/5th of the "good" players in the NFL turn over every year, it is very rare for any player to be considered "good" for more than 7-8 years.

[Partial]

We must get Orakpo.

Agreed. Maybin if he's gone.

[sheepshead]

what?

They dont last. Statistically they dont play that long. They retire. Look it up.

That is true for most players. Players peak between 26-31. Before that they typically are mistake prone young'uns (you are better off with them developing on the bench), after that they are injury prone and declining old guys.

It is practically a myth to take a guy "and be set for a decade." QB and LT are really the only positions where that is typically true. There are at best 5-10 players in a draft that will start for 10+ years for a single team.

Clifton has been the starter now for 8 1/2 seasons, Driver has been the starter for 7 seasons, they are the longest tenured starting Packers. I doubt either makes it to 10 full years starting for the Packers.

Basically 1/5th of the "good" players in the NFL turn over every year, it is very rare for any player to be considered "good" for more than 7-8 years.

far less for lineman. TT's philosophy appears to be to stay away from those guys and I whole heartedly agree.

I think the overall average NFL career is less than 4 years.

[gbpackfan]

Then you spent 4 years developing a guard and for what? Do you spend another 4 years developing the next guy?

MM has said that Colledge is gonna stay at G if I remember correctly.

They spent 4 years developing a tackle into a guard. He's a natural tackle. He would have been a tackle, but we have had 2 pretty outstanding tackles ahead of him. Rather than waste him away on the sidelines they put him in at guard to get him into the game. But the fact remains that Colledge is a natural tackle, and I don't see him playing guard for his whole career. He'll be a guard until Clifton is done.

They wouldn't have had to spend 4 years developing him into a guard if he was a guard to begin with. They won't have to spend 4 years developing the next guy if the next guy they draft is, you guessed it, a GUARD. Hell, they could spend a 2nd round pick on a natural guard in the next year or two and plug him right in, and probably wouldn't lose much at the position. Colledge is not a great guard by any means. He'd be a better tackle.

This whole idea of yours that a player is what he is and cannot be anything else is really disappointing. Especially when you don't know what the player is in the first place. Colledge is a great example. Colledge is a tackle who was able to play guard. He's still a tackle. He's just playing guard. I guess he isn't who he is, is he?


Colledge blows as a LT. Taylor beat him like a drum a couple years ago. He always seems to need help from the RB. And MM did say he was going to stay at G. The Packers and the media claim that he was their best linemen last year. If that is true, he should stay at G. Why move Clifton? He can't play anywhere else.

[gbpackfan]

A RT for a year. Clifton will be gone after 2009 and Oher could slide over. Oher would be a great pick at 9. He is probably the best T in the draft. People are too hung up on his "learning disability." See that guy, go block him! Done deal (I know, it's not quite that easy. But if Pacman Jones, Tank Johnson, and Chad Johnson can grasp the game, Oher will be able to.)

The Packer can find a rush LB in round 2 and a 3-4 DE in round 3.

No.....they can't. If Moala is off the board, the next reasonable 3-4 DE frame is in the 5th-7th round areas with Everette Pedescleux, Nadar Abdallah, and Pannel Egboah.

There is a big drop from Jackson to the next tier (Hood, Gilbert), a big drop to the next guy (Moala), and a huge free fall to the next guy, who probably isn't even good enough to make it above the PS year 1.

My pick, in this scenario is:
http://image.cdnl3.xosnetwork.com/pics22/400/XO/XOCRGNTDPETWCFE.20081103213007.jpg

The best 3-4 DE prospect to come around since Richard Seymore in 2001.

Gilbert has the frame and measurables, and can rush a bit, but is not good against the run at all, Hood has the frame and measurables and is more stout against the run, but is nowhere near the polished player. Earlier in his career, LSU actually ran some 3-4 fronts where Jackson played 5-tech.

If that is your feeling, fair enough. I love the idea of Jackson, but only if we can trade back a couple spots.

I can't wait for the draft! :shock:

[Waldo]

Colledge blows as a LT. Taylor beat him like a drum a couple years ago. He always seems to need help from the RB. And MM did say he was going to stay at G. The Packers and the media claim that he was their best linemen last year. If that is true, he should stay at G. Why move Clifton? He can't play anywhere else.

Colledge found out an hour before the game that he was going to be playing LT instead of G, he was a rookie, and I believe that Taylor won the DMVP that year.

I haven't seen Daryn need help at T since, and I don't believe that he has given up a sack at T since.

It isn't to move Clifton. Chad is really close to the end, he had a very bad year last year, he was #23 in sacks allowed by LT's, and horrible at run blocking, and some of his sacks allowed were very bad ole's that got Aaron creamed. He just had another knee surgery this offseason. It is not difficult to envision him declining further. If that happens, I expect that Daryn will start at LT for us unless we take one at #9.

[Waldo]

A RT for a year. Clifton will be gone after 2009 and Oher could slide over. Oher would be a great pick at 9. He is probably the best T in the draft. People are too hung up on his "learning disability." See that guy, go block him! Done deal (I know, it's not quite that easy. But if Pacman Jones, Tank Johnson, and Chad Johnson can grasp the game, Oher will be able to.)

The Packer can find a rush LB in round 2 and a 3-4 DE in round 3.

No.....they can't. If Moala is off the board, the next reasonable 3-4 DE frame is in the 5th-7th round areas with Everette Pedescleux, Nadar Abdallah, and Pannel Egboah.

There is a big drop from Jackson to the next tier (Hood, Gilbert), a big drop to the next guy (Moala), and a huge free fall to the next guy, who probably isn't even good enough to make it above the PS year 1.

My pick, in this scenario is:
http://image.cdnl3.xosnetwork.com/pics22/400/XO/XOCRGNTDPETWCFE.20081103213007.jpg

The best 3-4 DE prospect to come around since Richard Seymore in 2001.

Gilbert has the frame and measurables, and can rush a bit, but is not good against the run at all, Hood has the frame and measurables and is more stout against the run, but is nowhere near the polished player. Earlier in his career, LSU actually ran some 3-4 fronts where Jackson played 5-tech.

If that is your feeling, fair enough. I love the idea of Jackson, but only if we can trade back a couple spots.

I can't wait for the draft! :shock:

With Den at #12 and SD at #16, both teams have big needs there, I doubt he makes it past #16, and don't think that he makes it past #12. If we can trade down with SF or Buf we could get him, but I don't like our chances if we trade down further than that.

More than one source has a top 10 grade on him. Gil Brandt, Dallas' personnel guy for nearly 30 years (been to a good % of pro days this year too, the one guy that knows what he is talking about moreso than most GM's) has him graded ahead of Raji, who he doesn't have a top 10 grade on.

[Partial]

Waldo,

Do you think that he can be an impact player at getting to the passer? If this guy can be like a Cullen Jenkins without the health problems, I'll be on board without a doubt.

[Guiness]

Waldo,

Do you think that he can be an impact player at getting to the passer? If this guy can be like a Cullen Jenkins without the health problems, I'll be on board without a doubt.

Um, what?

Get to the passer? We are now looking for a DE who can get to the passer in a 3-4 scheme?
:roll: :roll:

Jenkins, healthy or not, will not be getting a sniff of too damn many QB jerseys this year.

[Fritz]

A RT for a year. Clifton will be gone after 2009 and Oher could slide over. Oher would be a great pick at 9. He is probably the best T in the draft. People are too hung up on his "learning disability." See that guy, go block him! Done deal (I know, it's not quite that easy. But if Pacman Jones, Tank Johnson, and Chad Johnson can grasp the game, Oher will be able to.)

The Packer can find a rush LB in round 2 and a 3-4 DE in round 3.

No.....they can't. If Moala is off the board, the next reasonable 3-4 DE frame is in the 5th-7th round areas with Everette Pedescleux, Nadar Abdallah, and Pannel Egboah.

There is a big drop from Jackson to the next tier (Hood, Gilbert), a big drop to the next guy (Moala), and a huge free fall to the next guy, who probably isn't even good enough to make it above the PS year 1.

My pick, in this scenario is:
http://image.cdnl3.xosnetwork.com/pics22/400/XO/XOCRGNTDPETWCFE.20081103213007.jpg

The best 3-4 DE prospect to come around since Richard Seymore in 2001.

Gilbert has the frame and measurables, and can rush a bit, but is not good against the run at all, Hood has the frame and measurables and is more stout against the run, but is nowhere near the polished player. Earlier in his career, LSU actually ran some 3-4 fronts where Jackson played 5-tech.

Sheesh. All these ignoramuses we gotta deal with, eh Waldo? Per your boldfaced sections of the post above, I was gonna say the same exact thing. You miss out on Jackson, next thing you know you're lookin' at Pannel Egboah. Everybody knows that. I can't believe these people don't know this stuff!

Seriously Waldo, your research is amazing. It remains to be seen how much plays out the way you suggest, but in the meantime, since your remarks and opinions appear to be based on more research than the rest of us (Patler and one or two others excepted) put together, I'm inclined to give your opinions more weight than, say, the opinions of someone like...... ah, forget it.

[Lurker64]

Um, what?

Get to the passer? We are now looking for a DE who can get to the passer in a 3-4 scheme?
:roll: :roll:

Jenkins, healthy or not, will not be getting a sniff of too damn many QB jerseys this year.

Well, while there are very few 3-4 DEs who will lead the team in sacks, they do generally need to be able to get enough pressure on the QB in order to be worth blocking in the first place, and they are capable of being cornerstones in the defense.

[Joemailman]

I'll stay on the Everette Brown bandwagon, even if it's a bit lonely. The guy has gotten better every year, has a reputation as a team leader, and is a very solid citizen. He also doesn't have Orakpo's injury history. I know some are scared off by the Florida St./Defensive End history, but if he can play, I don't care where he's from.

[Waldo]

Waldo,

Do you think that he can be an impact player at getting to the passer? If this guy can be like a Cullen Jenkins without the health problems, I'll be on board without a doubt.

The reason Merriman is Merriman is because of Castillo. The reason Ware was Ware was because of Canty. The reason Harrison was Harrison was because of Keisel. A good 3-4 DE might only get 3-5 sacks, but they enable the ILB and OLB to get a whole lot more. If your DE's suck, your ILB's/OLB's aren't going to do much rushing the passer.

3-4 DE's are more pressure guys than sack guys. The good ones harass the QB all the time, but don't necessarily show up on the stat sheet a lot because of it.

Just like NT, if your DE's suck, your run defense sucks.

There is a tandem relationship between a 3-4 DE and the OLB outside of him, and they work as a team to drop the QB. Often the DE's moves rushing are to give the OLB a clean lane to the QB.

And to be standing right in the way of the 10 yd out pass or inside slant. A 3-4 DE is often a better slant defender than a CB is.

[texaspackerbacker]

It would be a colossal waste to draft Orakpo or Maybin or any other 3-4 OLB in the first round. I really think Thompson sees it that way too.

[Fritz]

Well, you crusty ol' Texas coot, first of all I'm comin' to your state tomorrow - to Waco. So don't shoot this liberal former pot-smoking northerner if you see him, okay?

Secondly, I'm kind of on that bandwagon of yours. The way our resident experts such as Waldo seem to see it, there are lots of possible OLB's down the line in this draft. Thus, unless you are convinced Orapko is the second coming of Lawrence Taylor, minus the crazy, you might be best off waiting and grabbing, say, an OT or a DE. Though I know you think the Pack is set there, too, you crazed Texan.

[3irty1]

Its a great year to be Everette Pedescleux that's for sure. Most years this guy isn't getting drafted.

Waldo how do you feel about Kyle Moore as a fit at DE in the 3-4?

[Waldo]

Its a great year to be Everette Pedescleux that's for sure. Most years this guy isn't getting drafted.

Waldo how do you feel about Kyle Moore as a fit at DE in the 3-4?

He's a little skinny (kinda like Pannel Egboh), and would probably take a year or two to get up to size, so probably wouldn't be much of an impact for a few years. But he could probably do it, he's got a huge frame and good quickness.

[Lurker64]

Are we not putting much stock in Dom Capers being high on Alfred Malone as a 3-4 DE?

[retailguy]

Are we not putting much stock in Dom Capers being high on Alfred Malone as a 3-4 DE?

Sure, why not? Shouldn't we still have some competition?

[Bretsky]

Are we not putting much stock in Dom Capers being high on Alfred Malone as a 3-4 DE?


anythink we get out of Karl is a bonus :lol:

[retailguy]

Are we not putting much stock in Dom Capers being high on Alfred Malone as a 3-4 DE?


anythink we get out of Karl is a bonus :lol:

A couple of good hook shots would help. Maybe he could win the game on a free throw?

[Bretsky]

Are we not putting much stock in Dom Capers being high on Alfred Malone as a 3-4 DE?


anythink we get out of Karl is a bonus :lol:

A couple of good hook shots would help. Maybe he could win the game on a free throw?


Karl never had a hook shot; but he was a sneaky and kind of dirty player.
He know how to use those elbows

[Fritz]

Maybe he taught his young nephew Alfred a thing or two.

[texaspackerbacker]

Well, you crusty ol' Texas coot, first of all I'm comin' to your state tomorrow - to Waco. So don't shoot this liberal former pot-smoking northerner if you see him, okay?

Secondly, I'm kind of on that bandwagon of yours. The way our resident experts such as Waldo seem to see it, there are lots of possible OLB's down the line in this draft. Thus, unless you are convinced Orapko is the second coming of Lawrence Taylor, minus the crazy, you might be best off waiting and grabbing, say, an OT or a DE. Though I know you think the Pack is set there, too, you crazed Texan.

By now you may be here in Texas, but maybe you brought your laptop and are still checking in. I'm 65 miles south of Waco; I don't consider myself a "crazed Texan", just a crazed Wisconsin transplant to Texas.

As I have said, I've seen enough of Orakpo not to like him--not at the point in the draft where he will go, anyway. As I have also said, I'm very comfortable with what we have at OLB--maybe draft one of those farther down guys just to compete or in case we have a couple of injuries.

I also think what we have at DE--Jenkins, Harrell, Malone, Jolly, and Montgomery--stands just as good a chance of being good as some 1st or 2nd round newcomer. I especially like Jolly--if he can stay out of jail. As has been said, 3-4 DEs under the best of circumstances hardly get a sniff of the QB. Jolly, however, has a knack of not getting enough penetration, but putting a paw up and knocking down passes. That could be a handy skill for a 3-4 DE.

Did somebody mention switching Clifton to RT for a year? I really don't see that. Supposedly a RT can give up a little on pass blocking, but should be good for run blocking. Clifton's run blocking has faded badly, although he's still marginally decent in pass protection. I could see one more year with him as the LT, with Oher learning and transitioning in.

[Gunakor]

Colledge blows as a LT. Taylor beat him like a drum a couple years ago. He always seems to need help from the RB. And MM did say he was going to stay at G. The Packers and the media claim that he was their best linemen last year. If that is true, he should stay at G. Why move Clifton? He can't play anywhere else.

Colledge blows at LT because of what again? Because he got beat by an elite pass rusher consistently in his rookie season? Gotcha. And everyone else Taylor beat like a drum is garbage too. What a terrific evaluation of a guy. You should be an NFL scout.

Move Clifton? I never suggested that. Ever. I said Colledge would slide over to LT to replace Clifton when he's done. I wasn't talking about this season.

Look big picture - look several years out. Clifton is done, and there is a vacancy at LT to be filled. You have a natural tackle that has been playing guard for 4 seasons so that he can get into the flow of the game, and you have an opportunity to move him back to his natural position at LT. Why wouldn't you do it? It's not like Colledge is an All Pro RG...

As Waldo has already pointed out, which you failed to read before posting this, is that MM only said Colledge is going to remain at guard as opposed to shifting over to RT this year. He never ruled out Colledge moving to LT in the future. I fully expect that to happen when Clifton is done.