Which players would you be okay with spending #9 on?

[Lurker64]

Each and every one of us has a list of guys we don't at #9 for any reason, and we probably have a couple of guys that we each would prefer Green Bay take over anybody else. But not all of us agree on which guy would be the very best pick at #9.

Something I'm curious about is how much we agree on players we would comfortable taking at #9, not players we would be super-excited about, but players we would be happy enough to be called "not unhappy" about the pick.

So if you want to participate, just give a quick list of all the guys who Thompson could draft at #9 where your reaction would be on the positive side. Feel free to edit your list as your opinions change, but leaving things as they were would be a good reference for when people inevitably start complaining about who we do pick.

[Lurker64]

Personally, I'm happy with any of the following picks.

Probably gone
Jason Smith
Eugene Monroe
Aaron Curry

Guys who will probably actually be there
Tyson Jackson
B.J. Raji
Brian Orakpo
Aaron Maybin

[sheepshead]

:beat:

[PlantPage55]

I'll put all the guys I wouldn't mind, whether they will be there or even if there is no way in hell:

Eugene Monroe
Jason Smith
Brian Orakpo
BJ Raji
Aaron Curry
Aaron Maybin
Tyson Jackson
Andre Smith

Otherwise, trade down.

(Basically what you can derive from this is that I want no part of Everette Brown. :lol: )

[Waldo]

Probably Gone:
Jason Smith
Eugene Monroe
(were I TT I would strongly consider trading up with our 3rd if one of them makes it to #5, to jump ahead of Cincy)

Happy that will/might be there:
Tyson Jackson
BJ Raji
Evander Hood
Chris Wells
Knowshon Moreno
Michael Oher
Aaron Maybin
Connor Barwin
Clay Matthews
(I know a few are big reaches, but I don't really care too much, I like them, and they won't be there at our next pick)

Push
Michael Crabtree
Andre Smith
Everette Brown
Brian Orakpo
Aaron Curry
William Beatty

Irked
Malcolm Jenkins
anybody else

[RashanGary]

Somewhat realistic extremes:


Don't want Orakpo

Would be extatic with Raji

[RashanGary]

I disagree with you, Waldo, on Jenkins. He's a good player at a university that plays a lot of NFL technique with their corners so good ones tend to be easily evaluated and succeed in the NFL. Injury withstanding, he will have a lot of good years in the NFL. With the #9 I do want more than a "good player" and maybe that's all he is, but he doesn't deserve to be on the "no way list" any more than some of the other players.

[DonHutson]

Waldo, or anyone else that would be happy with Andre Smith or Micheal Oher, is that based strictly on the assumption that they will play LT?

Because other issues aside, I'm not totally convinced these two can pass protect with the level of consistency the Packers would need on the left side. I think they both have the tools, but I don't know if they'll be able to do it down after down. I'd be OK with either as a RT, but probably not at #9.

[Joemailman]

Likely Gone:

Aaron Curry
Jason Smith
Eugene Monroe
_____________________________

:D Brian Orakpo
:D Everette Brown
:D B.J. Raji
:D Michael Oher
:D Tyson Jackson
_______________________________

:evil: Matthew Stafford
:evil: Rey Maualuga

________________________________



:| Michael Crabtree
:| Malcolm Jenkins
:| Knowshon Moreno
:| Andre Smith
:| Aaron Maybin

[DonHutson]

I'd be happy with Maybin, Curry, or J. Smith and content with Jackson, Monroe, or Orakpo.

I'd be intrigued by Moreno or Crabtree.

I'd be skeptical but optimistic about A. Smith, Oher, Wells, or Raji.

I'd be surprised if its anyone else.

I wouldn't be pissed about anyone. Ted watches more film than I do.

[Waldo]

Waldo, or anyone else that would be happy with Andre Smith or Micheal Oher, is that based strictly on the assumption that they will play LT?

Because other issues aside, I'm not totally convinced these two can pass protect with the level of consistency the Packers would need on the left side. I think they both have the tools, but I don't know if they'll be able to do it down after down. I'd be OK with either as a RT, but probably not at #9.

I like Oher's chances on the left a little more than Andre's. If our coaches think that he's better than what we have, I'm cool with it. I'm not a big fan of players that struggle with their weight. Not a lot of them are able to keep it in check their whole career.

[Waldo]

I disagree with you, Waldo, on Jenkins. He's a good player at a university that plays a lot of NFL technique with their corners so good ones tend to be easily evaluated and succeed in the NFL. Injury withstanding, he will have a lot of good years in the NFL. With the #9 I do want more than a "good player" and maybe that's all he is, but he doesn't deserve to be on the "no way list" any more than some of the other players.

I'm an anti-CB person. I think that you can build a fine secondary in the second round and beyond, especially at CB (if not there are always plenty available in FA every year). You first round pass defense should be able to tackle the QB before he throws the ball IMO.

I think that there is an inverse relationship between secondaries and defensive quality. There are very few good defenses that have elite CB's. Elite CB's typically take increased resources over average CB's, resources better spent on pressure. With good pressure average CB's defend like elite CB's.

[RashanGary]

I don't see why Oher couldn't play LT. Really, I don't see why Smith couldn't either. Both are talented players.

I'm not a Smith fan because of the immaturity.

Oher seems legit to me. He's not consistently dominate, but he consistently gets the job done and dominates parts of the game. The whiffs are what concern me, and Oher doesn't have a problem with those type of lapses. Oher seems like a guy that appreciates the opportunity he has, knows it's going to take hard work and has all of the tools to continue to progress into a reliable LT for many years on the next level. I feel very good about him.

[RashanGary]

I think that there is an inverse relationship between secondaries and defensive quality. There are very few good defenses that have elite CB's. Elite CB's typically take increased resources over average CB's, resources better spent on pressure. With good pressure average CB's defend like elite CB's.

Good point. I agree that the big guys up front that can stop the run and get after the passer are soooo..... valuable. I see your logic, but I do like Jenkins as a player. I think he's going to be a good player for a long time.

I'm really hoping for one of the big LT's or Raji. Big guys are rare and change the game you play. I don't know anything about Maybin. If he's good in coverage and great at getting after the passer, man, you have something. I've never seen him play a snap and I don't know what to trust. I'm a big fan of NFLdraftscout and they do not think much of him.

[Packnut]

If Thompson is serious about giving Capers some ammo then the first 2 picks are easy:

1- Jackson from LSU. You can NEVER go wrong drafting solid SEC guys. This fixes our DE problem.

2- Brace from Boston College. He's just as good as his partner IMO. This gives us a solid back-up who can spell Pickett and plug up the middle.

3- best OLB available

4- best OLB available.

5- best OLB available.

[CaliforniaCheez]

First round

Jenkins is faster at changing directions than straight line speed. Like Jennings he did very well in the 3 cone and shuttle runs but not so great 40. BPA

Ted will pick him over Raji who only had one good year in college and was out academicly in 2007.

Andre Smith would be an acceptable pick.

Denver may want to trade up ahead of the 49'ers to get a QB. They have an extra 3rd round pick to offer......


The Packers need a good NT. 2nd or 3rd round. I think 3rd Round

Ron Brace (2) or Alex Magee (3)



OT also a need happens in the 2nd or 3rd. It depends on where and how fast NT's are being selected. I think 2nd round for OT.

Max Unger (2)

William Beatty (2)

Gerrald Cadogan (3)

With the second 3rd round pick Ted may draft a CB if he did not take Jenkins or trade down for a DE or LB.

From the 4th down who knows. DE, TE, maybe Center as this is a good year for them and an LB.

There are few DE's I like in the draft and the Packers have too many now.



The key to the draft is how fast the OT's are going. Ted's stategy will go from there.

[Joemailman]

If Thompson is serious about giving Capers some ammo then the first 2 picks are easy:

1- Jackson from LSU. You can NEVER go wrong drafting solid SEC guys. This fixes our DE problem.

2- Brace from Boston College. He's just as good as his partner IMO. This gives us a solid back-up who can spell Pickett and plug up the middle.

3- best OLB available Paul Kruger/ Utahhttp://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1245656

4- best OLB available. Tyrone McKenzie/South Florida http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1279457

5- best OLB available.Cody Brown/Connecticuthttp://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/565732

Just thought I'd finish it for you! :D

[Packnut]

If Thompson is serious about giving Capers some ammo then the first 2 picks are easy:

1- Jackson from LSU. You can NEVER go wrong drafting solid SEC guys. This fixes our DE problem.

2- Brace from Boston College. He's just as good as his partner IMO. This gives us a solid back-up who can spell Pickett and plug up the middle.

3- best OLB available Paul Kruger/ Utahhttp://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1245656

4- best OLB available. Tyrone McKenzie/South Florida http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1279457

5- best OLB available.Cody Brown/Connecticuthttp://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/565732

Just thought I'd finish it for you! :D

Thank You! I need all the help I can get. Man, IF Teddy was to get those 5, I'd NEVER say a bad word about the man again.......... :lol:

I saw a lot of Brown and McKenzie a lot last season. Those 2 guys are absolute BEASTS!

[Lurker64]

Personally, in terms of "backup NT prospects", I like Myron Pryor out of Kentucky a lot more than Ron Brace. Pryor could be better than Raji, based on head to head matchups (Pryor destroyed some of the top C prospects who handled Raji). Brace is kind of in the "big slug" mold.

[Joemailman]

You might be able to get Pryor without drafting him. Knock against him is he has trouble holding anchor when double teamed. For a Day 2 NT, I like Sammie Lee Hill. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1661886

[PlantPage55]

If Thompson is serious about giving Capers some ammo then the first 2 picks are easy:

1- Jackson from LSU. You can NEVER go wrong drafting solid SEC guys. This fixes our DE problem.

2- Brace from Boston College. He's just as good as his partner IMO. This gives us a solid back-up who can spell Pickett and plug up the middle.

3- best OLB available

4- best OLB available.

5- best OLB available.

Hey, at least you recognize that our offense (while not perfect, of course) is clearly NOT the problem. :lol:

[pittstang5]

You might be able to get Pryor without drafting him. Knock against him is he has trouble holding anchor when double teamed. For a Day 2 NT, I like Sammie Lee Hill. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1661886

I like Sammie Lee Hill too and hope he's there in the 4th. Hell, take him in the third if he's still there.

[Waldo]

You might be able to get Pryor without drafting him. Knock against him is he has trouble holding anchor when double teamed. For a Day 2 NT, I like Sammie Lee Hill. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1661886

Scouts Inc has a 4th round grade on him. I know a Scouts inc scout that has his as his #2 3-4 NT.

6'0" 320lb ~5.05 40 guys don't grow on trees. He has a lot of natural leverage.

There's a video floating around of his Shrine game practice, destroying some poor guard over and over.

[Packnut]

If Thompson is serious about giving Capers some ammo then the first 2 picks are easy:

1- Jackson from LSU. You can NEVER go wrong drafting solid SEC guys. This fixes our DE problem.

2- Brace from Boston College. He's just as good as his partner IMO. This gives us a solid back-up who can spell Pickett and plug up the middle.

3- best OLB available

4- best OLB available.

5- best OLB available.

Hey, at least you recognize that our offense (while not perfect, of course) is clearly NOT the problem. :lol:

I'm fine with Rodgers at this point. I expect him to improve like he has every season. I'm not as down on Grant as some are. We have a great WR corps. Our O line is below average, however there is the possibility of improvement there. I also expect Finley to mature and improve. No reason why this group cannot avg 24 ppg., which is great providing your D is'nt giving up 30+.......................

[The Shadow]

Check out what Pro Football Weekly has to say about Crabtree & Raji :

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Draft+Extras/2009/wwhi040909.htm

[texaspackerbacker]

Wasn't the original question, "who would you be satisfied with at #9?"?

I'd be satisfied most with any of the top four OTs.

I'd also be quite satisfied with Jenkins or Crabtree.

I wouldn't be totally dissatisfied if we got Raji.

That's about it for #9 in the first round.

[red]

Check out what Pro Football Weekly has to say about Crabtree & Raji :

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Draft+Extras/2009/wwhi040909.htm

well, thats a pretty depressing read

[Lurker64]

Check out what Pro Football Weekly has to say about Crabtree & Raji :

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Draft+Extras/2009/wwhi040909.htm

well, thats a pretty depressing read

I agree. I'm increasingly leaning towards "Tyson Jackson is the right pick." Anybody have anything horrible about him they'd like to point out?

[Tarlam!]

I hate having to write this, but I have to agree with Sheepshead (Go ahead and gloat, SD).

I hope TT trades out of the 1st round. Or trades down between 23 and 15 spots...

[packrulz]

Gone:
Stafford
Jason Smith
Monroe
Curry
Orakpo
Crabtree

I like at #9:
Aaron Maybin
Tyson Jackson
Raji
Andre Smith
Michael Oher
Vontae Davis
Everette Brown
Knowshon Moreno

I consider to be a reach at #9:
Malcom Jenkins
Brian Cushing
Rey Maualuga
Clay Matthews
Percy Harvin

[wist43]

Raji or Orakpo are at the top of my wish list... but I think both will be gone.

Crabtree or Maclin I'd be okay with.

Oher I'm alright with, although he does come with some concerns - don't want A.Smith.

Jackson will be a decent player I think, but see using the #9 pick on a DE in a 3-4 as a waste; although, as I've been saying, I think GB's current personnel are so ill suited to a 3-4, that they'll be in a 4-3 more often than not, so what the hell, lol.

Don't want at #9:
Maybin
Jenkins
Brown
A. Smith
Brian Cushing
Rey Maualuga
Clay Matthews

[packrulz]

I disagree with you, Waldo, on Jenkins. He's a good player at a university that plays a lot of NFL technique with their corners so good ones tend to be easily evaluated and succeed in the NFL. Injury withstanding, he will have a lot of good years in the NFL. With the #9 I do want more than a "good player" and maybe that's all he is, but he doesn't deserve to be on the "no way list" any more than some of the other players.

I'm an anti-CB person. I think that you can build a fine secondary in the second round and beyond, especially at CB (if not there are always plenty available in FA every year). You first round pass defense should be able to tackle the QB before he throws the ball IMO.

I think that there is an inverse relationship between secondaries and defensive quality. There are very few good defenses that have elite CB's. Elite CB's typically take increased resources over average CB's, resources better spent on pressure. With good pressure average CB's defend like elite CB's.
Waldo, the problem is the Packers pass rush doesn't get many sacks, so they better have good CB's. Ron Wolf drafted CB's every year, the year he drafted McKenzie, he drafted 3. Look at the rookie year Rogers-Cromartie had with the Cardinals, he helped them make it to the Super Bowl.

[Waldo]

I disagree with you, Waldo, on Jenkins. He's a good player at a university that plays a lot of NFL technique with their corners so good ones tend to be easily evaluated and succeed in the NFL. Injury withstanding, he will have a lot of good years in the NFL. With the #9 I do want more than a "good player" and maybe that's all he is, but he doesn't deserve to be on the "no way list" any more than some of the other players.

I'm an anti-CB person. I think that you can build a fine secondary in the second round and beyond, especially at CB (if not there are always plenty available in FA every year). You first round pass defense should be able to tackle the QB before he throws the ball IMO.

I think that there is an inverse relationship between secondaries and defensive quality. There are very few good defenses that have elite CB's. Elite CB's typically take increased resources over average CB's, resources better spent on pressure. With good pressure average CB's defend like elite CB's.
Waldo, the problem is the Packers pass rush doesn't get many sacks, so they better have good CB's. Ron Wolf drafted CB's every year, the year he drafted McKenzie, he drafted 3. Look at the rookie year Rogers-Cromartie had with the Cardinals, he helped them make it to the Super Bowl.

So instead of spending resources on a CB, wouldn't it be better spent on a pass rush?

I'm fine with drafting a CB, there are a couple that I really like. But I wouldn't do so until the 3rd-4th round.

[KYPack]

Wow, that is one scary article.

5 guys on it and 3 of em have been mentioned on Rats as strong possibilities to be our pick.

Now this article say all 3 could well crash and burn.

There is so much info out now, the closer you get to the draft, the more negative shit you hear.

[CaliforniaCheez]

The bust potential for Raji is great.

One year of good college play. 2007 Academicly ineligible. Questions of drugs. He was playing next to Brace (which made the other better?).

[HarveyWallbangers]

The bust potential for Raji is great.

One year of good college play. 2007 Academicly ineligible. Questions of drugs. He was playing next to Brace (which made the other better?).

Were his grades that bad? I had read he was basically ineligible because of a clerical error.

Did he really only have one good year? He was a starter in 2005 and 2006, right? Has anybody said he wasn't very good those years? His stats were as good those two years as Brace's stats his senior year (his best year).

[red]

Check out what Pro Football Weekly has to say about Crabtree & Raji :

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Draft+Extras/2009/wwhi040909.htm

well, thats a pretty depressing read

I agree. I'm increasingly leaning towards "Tyson Jackson is the right pick." Anybody have anything horrible about him they'd like to point out?

i was thinking the exact same thing after i typed that

i also think that he would provide the biggest upgrade over what we already have

[Spaulding]

Check out what Pro Football Weekly has to say about Crabtree & Raji :

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Draft+Extras/2009/wwhi040909.htm


Interesting read but I don't put too much weight to it. You could say that about almost any young player instantly thrown millions of dollars. Obviously some like Harvin and his posse are more prone than others but players the character of Greg Jennings are definitely not the norm.

Strangely omitted from this list is Andre Smith and his suspension from Sugar Bowl, weight concerns and poor Pro Day showing.

I assume this came out prior to the pot and steroid rumors that have cropped up on Raji, Matthews, etc.

[Packnut]

Since I'm on the Jackson bandwagon, let me explain why he's the guy to pick at #9.

First off- solid character. Was one of the core leaders at LSU.

Second- Injury history. Played 40 straight games. Hell, Harrell could'nt do that in his wildest fantasies. :lol:

Three- suits the 3-4 to perfection. He is not a speed rusher. His main suit is stopping the run which just happens to coincide with our biggest weakness. His strength is taking on blockers. This is perfect cause in a 3-4 the LB's should get the tackles. He has great ball recognition skills.

Four- HUGE upside. Has'nt scratched the surface yet with his ability. Is strong now and will get stronger with the right weight lifting program.

[rbaloha1]

Check out what Pro Football Weekly has to say about Crabtree & Raji :

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Draft+Extras/2009/wwhi040909.htm

Great article. Surprised on Crabtree's off field personality. If true, may not be worth the risk.

Raji's off field issues are widely known. These are the type of players Sherman drafts not TT.

[rbaloha1]

Since I'm on the Jackson bandwagon, let me explain why he's the guy to pick at #9.

First off- solid character. Was one of the core leaders at LSU.

Second- Injury history. Played 40 straight games. Hell, Harrell could'nt do that in his wildest fantasies. :lol:

Three- suits the 3-4 to perfection. He is not a speed rusher. His main suit is stopping the run which just happens to coincide with our biggest weakness. His strength is taking on blockers. This is perfect cause in a 3-4 the LB's should get the tackles. He has great ball recognition skills.

Four- HUGE upside. Has'nt scratched the surface yet with his ability. Is strong now and will get stronger with the right weight lifting program.

Sporting News states TJ is maybe the only top true 3-4 end in this draft. Character, production and upside potential are attributes TT seeks.

[Packnut]

Since I'm on the Jackson bandwagon, let me explain why he's the guy to pick at #9.

First off- solid character. Was one of the core leaders at LSU.

Second- Injury history. Played 40 straight games. Hell, Harrell could'nt do that in his wildest fantasies. :lol:

Three- suits the 3-4 to perfection. He is not a speed rusher. His main suit is stopping the run which just happens to coincide with our biggest weakness. His strength is taking on blockers. This is perfect cause in a 3-4 the LB's should get the tackles. He has great ball recognition skills.

Four- HUGE upside. Has'nt scratched the surface yet with his ability. Is strong now and will get stronger with the right weight lifting program.

Sporting News states TJ is maybe the only top true 3-4 end in this draft. Character, production and upside potential are attributes TT seeks.

From your keyboard to Teddy's ears...... :lol:

[red]

Since I'm on the Jackson bandwagon, let me explain why he's the guy to pick at #9.

First off- solid character. Was one of the core leaders at LSU.

Second- Injury history. Played 40 straight games. Hell, Harrell could'nt do that in his wildest fantasies. :lol:

Three- suits the 3-4 to perfection. He is not a speed rusher. His main suit is stopping the run which just happens to coincide with our biggest weakness. His strength is taking on blockers. This is perfect cause in a 3-4 the LB's should get the tackles. He has great ball recognition skills.

Four- HUGE upside. Has'nt scratched the surface yet with his ability. Is strong now and will get stronger with the right weight lifting program.

Sporting News states TJ is maybe the only top true 3-4 end in this draft. Character, production and upside potential are attributes TT seeks.

the other guys that might be 3-4 de's have been playing DT in college. so they would have to move a bit, and then you have a little bit of a question as to if the guys can even play 3-4 de. they probably can handle it just fine, but you know TJ can do it

he's a safe pick, he's a great player and he fills a huge need. the only downside is that De in the 3-4 is not usually filled with guy that are taken in the top 10.

but i say oh well. if he's there and you want him and 9 then take him tt. no reason to take a chance on getting one of the other guys in the later rounds and missing out.

tyson jackson and clint sintim or larry english in the second and our 3-4 d will be on the right track

[Lurker64]

the only downside is that De in the 3-4 is not usually filled with guy that are taken in the top 10.

Richard Seymour was taken at #6 overall, and nobody would dare criticize the Pats for passing on guys like Andre Carter or Jamal Reynolds (the top prospects for the the "big money position" of OLB in the 3-4 defense) for taking the big DE.

[Joemailman]

Does Mel Kiper know that Tyson Jackson is zooming up draft boards at Packerrats?

[gbpackfan]

The PERFECT situation would be to trade down a couple spots and get Tyson Jackson at 11-14 range. Then grab your pass rushing LB early in the second. But trading takes two and it appears that EVERYONE wants to trade back this year.

[texaspackerbacker]

I disagree with you, Waldo, on Jenkins. He's a good player at a university that plays a lot of NFL technique with their corners so good ones tend to be easily evaluated and succeed in the NFL. Injury withstanding, he will have a lot of good years in the NFL. With the #9 I do want more than a "good player" and maybe that's all he is, but he doesn't deserve to be on the "no way list" any more than some of the other players.

I'm an anti-CB person. I think that you can build a fine secondary in the second round and beyond, especially at CB (if not there are always plenty available in FA every year). You first round pass defense should be able to tackle the QB before he throws the ball IMO.

I think that there is an inverse relationship between secondaries and defensive quality. There are very few good defenses that have elite CB's. Elite CB's typically take increased resources over average CB's, resources better spent on pressure. With good pressure average CB's defend like elite CB's.
Waldo, the problem is the Packers pass rush doesn't get many sacks, so they better have good CB's. Ron Wolf drafted CB's every year, the year he drafted McKenzie, he drafted 3. Look at the rookie year Rogers-Cromartie had with the Cardinals, he helped them make it to the Super Bowl.

So instead of spending resources on a CB, wouldn't it be better spent on a pass rush?

I'm fine with drafting a CB, there are a couple that I really like. But I wouldn't do so until the 3rd-4th round.

I've said this before, but I'll say it again anyway.

A pass rusher fails--doesn't get to the QB, and you have a bunch people covering his back. There's a decent percentage of chance that the pass will float to the ground incomplete, a fair chance it will go for a short to moderate gain, and a slim chance it will be intercepted.

A Corner fails, and your opponent probably gets a TD or at least a long gainer, especially in a man coverage scheme.

Corner is the more important position of the two, and arguably, the position where it is more difficult of the two to find excellent talent.

All that being said, I'm still not putting Corner at the top of my wish list this year, as we probably have a more immediate need for a future star OT.

Just behind that I would put getting a future star Corner.

What we absolutely DON'T need, however, is to waste that top pick--or probably even a second or third--on some pass rusher, a position, despite the wrongheaded claims of some, where the Packers are well stocked, and where the guy we would be getting would stand a much stronger chance of being a bust than either a OT or a Corner.

[Lurker64]

Tex-

You okay with Cullen Jenkins, Justin Harrell, Michael Montgomery, Johnny Jolly, and Alfred Malone as our group at DE, or would you strenuously object to Tyson Jackson like you apparently object to everybody at the OLB spot.

I have no doubt in my mind that Jackson is healthier than Jenkins or Harrell, stouter at the point than Montgomery, has fewer legal problems than Johnny Jolly, and has a higher ceiling than Alfred Malone (a player I like, however.)

[SnakeLH2006]

I'm an anti-CB person.

Agreed...Anyone remember the hype of T-Buck or even the dude from Ohio State a few years ago the Panthers drafted that Pack fans were pining over? Yes CB is overrated in the first unless his name is Deion.

Snake really wants a starting NT or OT for sure, but if not, trade down and get a steal (top 10 guy who falls to 15 or so).

Otherwise...Snake loves a good BJ and ManBoobs Smith wouldn't be bad at either LT or most likely RT. Those anchor positions are 110% necessary to advance our team.

[texaspackerbacker]

Tex-

You okay with Cullen Jenkins, Justin Harrell, Michael Montgomery, Johnny Jolly, and Alfred Malone as our group at DE, or would you strenuously object to Tyson Jackson like you apparently object to everybody at the OLB spot.

I have no doubt in my mind that Jackson is healthier than Jenkins or Harrell, stouter at the point than Montgomery, has fewer legal problems than Johnny Jolly, and has a higher ceiling than Alfred Malone (a player I like, however.)

I'm moderately OK with what we have at DE. Jenkins's injuries were freakish, not chronic. With any normal luck, he should be OK. Harrell's bicep the same, although his back is worrisome. I like Jolly, as I said in a different post for his ability to knock down passes, and I, too, like Malone.

Like most others, I think #9 is way too high for Tyson Jackson. If by some miracle, he dropped to us in the second round, I'd be for taking him--but that's highly unlikely. Beyond that, I'd expect and not be opposed to taking some DE farther down in the draft.

[TheCheese]

Since I'm on the Jackson bandwagon, let me explain why he's the guy to pick at #9.

First off- solid character. Was one of the core leaders at LSU.

Second- Injury history. Played 40 straight games. Hell, Harrell could'nt do that in his wildest fantasies. :lol:

Three- suits the 3-4 to perfection. He is not a speed rusher. His main suit is stopping the run which just happens to coincide with our biggest weakness. His strength is taking on blockers. This is perfect cause in a 3-4 the LB's should get the tackles. He has great ball recognition skills.

Four- HUGE upside. Has'nt scratched the surface yet with his ability. Is strong now and will get stronger with the right weight lifting program.

Sporting News states TJ is maybe the only top true 3-4 end in this draft. Character, production and upside potential are attributes TT seeks.

the other guys that might be 3-4 de's have been playing DT in college. so they would have to move a bit, and then you have a little bit of a question as to if the guys can even play 3-4 de. they probably can handle it just fine, but you know TJ can do it

he's a safe pick, he's a great player and he fills a huge need. the only downside is that De in the 3-4 is not usually filled with guy that are taken in the top 10.

but i say oh well. if he's there and you want him and 9 then take him tt. no reason to take a chance on getting one of the other guys in the later rounds and missing out.

tyson jackson and clint sintim or larry english in the second and our 3-4 d will be on the right track

Tyson Jackson and Larry English in the first two rounds would be fucking amazing. This would boost the fuck out of our defense. Hopefully, although unlikely, somehow English finds himself there for our second pick. Dude is a beast.

[wist43]

the only downside is that De in the 3-4 is not usually filled with guy that are taken in the top 10.

Richard Seymour was taken at #6 overall, and nobody would dare criticize the Pats for passing on guys like Andre Carter or Jamal Reynolds (the top prospects for the the "big money position" of OLB in the 3-4 defense) for taking the big DE.

I really don't want a DE in the 1st round if we're going to be running a 3-4, but as I've been pointing out, I doubt run a pure 3-4 much... if Capers walks the talk, and plays to his personnel, which of course, are a bunch of substandard 4-3 guys.

As for Seymour, I see him as the exception to the rule... he is just one hell of a DL. Equally good at DE/DT in either a 4-3 or 3-4. Not many guys like him out there.

[Packnut]

I disagree with you, Waldo, on Jenkins. He's a good player at a university that plays a lot of NFL technique with their corners so good ones tend to be easily evaluated and succeed in the NFL. Injury withstanding, he will have a lot of good years in the NFL. With the #9 I do want more than a "good player" and maybe that's all he is, but he doesn't deserve to be on the "no way list" any more than some of the other players.

I'm an anti-CB person. I think that you can build a fine secondary in the second round and beyond, especially at CB (if not there are always plenty available in FA every year). You first round pass defense should be able to tackle the QB before he throws the ball IMO.

I think that there is an inverse relationship between secondaries and defensive quality. There are very few good defenses that have elite CB's. Elite CB's typically take increased resources over average CB's, resources better spent on pressure. With good pressure average CB's defend like elite CB's.
Waldo, the problem is the Packers pass rush doesn't get many sacks, so they better have good CB's. Ron Wolf drafted CB's every year, the year he drafted McKenzie, he drafted 3. Look at the rookie year Rogers-Cromartie had with the Cardinals, he helped them make it to the Super Bowl.

So instead of spending resources on a CB, wouldn't it be better spent on a pass rush?

I'm fine with drafting a CB, there are a couple that I really like. But I wouldn't do so until the 3rd-4th round.

I've said this before, but I'll say it again anyway.

A pass rusher fails--doesn't get to the QB, and you have a bunch people covering his back. There's a decent percentage of chance that the pass will float to the ground incomplete, a fair chance it will go for a short to moderate gain, and a slim chance it will be intercepted.

A Corner fails, and your opponent probably gets a TD or at least a long gainer, especially in a man coverage scheme.

Corner is the more important position of the two, and arguably, the position where it is more difficult of the two to find excellent talent.

All that being said, I'm still not putting Corner at the top of my wish list this year, as we probably have a more immediate need for a future star OT.

Just behind that I would put getting a future star Corner.

What we absolutely DON'T need, however, is to waste that top pick--or probably even a second or third--on some pass rusher, a position, despite the wrongheaded claims of some, where the Packers are well stocked, and where the guy we would be getting would stand a much stronger chance of being a bust than either a OT or a Corner.

But the problem is the ONLY place we are well stocked at DE is in YOUR MIND. In fact, I'd wager there are not more than 5 people on this freakin planet that believe what you do. You have not one basis of fact to support your opinion.

Harrell and Jenkins have proven to be injury riddled players. That is a FACT you cannot deny (unless you are insane). Counting on players who can't stay healthy is a sure fire recipe for disaster.

AND, IF you knew anything about Jackson, you would know he is NOT a pass rusher. His strength is taking on blockers and stopping the run. Now may-be it does'nt bother you that we gave up 100+ on the ground almost every damn game, but some of us know you do not win in the NFL if you can't stop the run!