Flynn and Brohm get to work in offseason program

[RashanGary]

by Mike Spofford, Packers.com
posted 04/10/2009

In a perfect world, second-year quarterbacks Matt Flynn and Brian Brohm would have gotten to do this last year, before getting a huge playbook thrown at them as rookies.

The schedule doesn't really allow for it, though, with the NFL Draft in late April and OTAs starting roughly a month after that.

So this second season is their first opportunity to take advantage of a full offseason to prepare and improve their games, and Flynn and Brohm are soaking up everything they can in their first go-round through the team's offseason quarterback workouts.

It's a fairly comprehensive program that coincides with the offseason schedule for the entire team, with aspects designed specifically for quarterbacks. In addition to regular strength and conditioning work, the QBs also participate in various drills to hone the fundamentals and extensive film sessions to learn the finer points of Head Coach Mike McCarthy's West Coast offense.

"I think it's really going to help, just from going through a whole year of being in the offense and now getting to go through QB school," said Brohm, a second-round draft pick a year ago. "Really, to play quarterback in this system, you need to understand every little detail, and going through this will help solidify that.

"When you know all the details, you can just go out there and play and not have to think about them, so I think it should be very good for all of us."

Aaron Rodgers is proof of that, having gone through three offseasons of QB work in 2006, '07 and '08 with McCarthy and quarterbacks coach Tom Clements before his first game as a starter last year, and he went on to throw for more than 4,000 yards.

Even as the starter, Rodgers still participates to keep himself sharp and improving, as well as to help teach Flynn and Brohm at times. As with Rodgers in previous years, the process is really geared toward quarterbacks in their early stages of development, and the learning curve is dramatically different from a quarterback's rookie season, where everything from the playbook to the drills to life in the NFL is coming fast and furious.

"Now we get to take it slow and take it step by step," said Flynn, a seventh-round pick who beat out Brohm for the No. 2 job last season. "When we get here as rookies, you're just thrown in and you start running plays immediately. The first year, especially at the beginning, it was a lot of memorization. You're just memorizing things. Now, we get to take a step back and actually learn the offense and understand why."

Why the running back chooses to stay in to pass block or slip into the flat, for instance. Or why a certain receiver is the hot guy against a particular blitz, but why there may be a different hot target if the defense changes its look. Or why a tight end might run his route a certain way, or why his blocking assignment is a particular defender.

That learning is accomplished primarily by analyzing the film of every snap of the previous season - the pre- and post-snap reads, the adjustments, and the decisions made by the quarterback, in this case Rodgers, who took all but a handful of the regular-season snaps in 2008.

The studying can be done at a pace and a level of detail that's not feasible during a quarterback's rookie season, when his first exposure to the playbook is the first week of May and training camp is less than two months away. Compared to a year ago, Flynn and Brohm will have six weeks of work in this year before they even knew they would be Packers in 2008.

"You try to hit everything during the season, but at the same time you have to get ready to play," Brohm said. "A lot of times the minor details get lost when you're just trying to figure out what the play is and where the receivers are going.

"Now we're learning all those small details. What if you get this look? How are you going to adjust the protection? What's the tackle going to do? Why is he going to do that?

"Knowing why everybody is doing what they're doing really helps you understand the offense and will make you much more comfortable when you get out there."

More polished fundamentals can add to that comfort level and efficiency for a young quarterback, and much of the on-field time is spent focusing on things like footwork, drop depth, throwing mechanics, and out-of-pocket movement.

"Footwork is one of the most important things you can do physically," Flynn said. "You have big guys coming as fast as they can, so you need to get away from the line of scrimmage, and you want to get as much depth as you can, get there as fast as you can, and be on balance, because if you're not on balance, you can't throw accurately.

"That's the main thing, staying on balance at all times, and being ready to throw at different steps in the dropback in case there's hot routes and blitzes and stuff like that. It's a lot different than what I did in college, so it's a learning process right now."

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A learning process that, come OTAs and training camp this year, will make these quarterbacks' whirlwind rookie year seem a lot longer ago than it really was.

Of the two, Flynn had the better of it last year, winning the backup job with a stronger preseason showing. But he's well aware there are a lot of gains to be made, and he plans to start making some of them in 2009.

"I want to be able to go to practice, and when I get the play call and call it, I don't want to have to be thinking about it," Flynn said. "I want it to become second nature so I can focus on what I have to do, instead of worrying about where people are lined up or where people are running, kind of like it was at the beginning of last year."

Brohm went through the same thing, and though the No. 3 job wasn't what he had in mind for his rookie season, the quarterbacks' offseason program has given him a chance to start fresh and focus on improving at every stage.

"In college I fully understood the offense I was in, I was able to make adjustments, check off at the line, and that's where I need to get," Brohm said. "I need to get to that point in this offense, so when I get out there, I'm fully comfortable, I know what everyone is doing, and you can play fast. That's really the key, is understanding what you have to do and being comfortable out there, so you can play as fast as possible and just play football."

[RashanGary]

It looks like the gamble to keep two talented players that weren't ready over a below average journeyman might pay off.


I'm at a point where I think one of these guys will be legit, maybe both, possibly neither but I have confidence that between TT and MM, they will have have hit on one. I also have confidence that they know how to develop them, so if they are legit, they're going to have a chance to shine with McCArthys experience teaching QB's.

[RashanGary]

We were a little spoiled with what we expect out of a QB, starting every game every year. The reality is that 65% of starting QBs every year drop out with an injury. Rodgers, sooner than later if history predicts future, will have an injury. One of these up coming years might be that special year where it all comes together for a SB run. Do we want to piss it away with an injury to our QB that can and does happen every year? No. We want to be prepared and it looks like we might be very well prepared.

The value of Brohm and Flynn to this team is very high and that is before you consider any future trade possibility. This is just one of many positive things that can happen when you consider the whole term of a decision rather than just the short term. Good job, Ted.

[texaspackerbacker]

We were a little spoiled with what we expect out of a QB, starting every game every year. The reality is that 65% of starting QBs every year drop out with an injury. Rodgers, sooner than later if history predicts future, will have an injury. One of these up coming years might be that special year where it all comes together for a SB run. Do we want to piss it away with an injury to our QB that can and does happen every year? No. We want to be prepared and it looks like we might be very well prepared.

The value of Brohm and Flynn to this team is very high and that is before you consider any future trade possibility. This is just one of many positive things that can happen when you consider the whole term of a decision rather than just the short term. Good job, Ted.

Exactly what I was gonna say about QB injuries.

I was fairly confident that either of these guys could do the job in an emergency last year, and more so this year.

I'm thinking Brohm has a lot of potential, and that in a couple of years, we can cash him in like Brunell, Hasselback, or Brooks. Maybe the same for Flynn, but I see him as more of a Zeke Bratkowski/Doug Peterson kind of Packer.

[SnakeLH2006]

We were a little spoiled with what we expect out of a QB, starting every game every year. The reality is that 65% of starting QBs every year drop out with an injury. Rodgers, sooner than later if history predicts future, will have an injury. One of these up coming years might be that special year where it all comes together for a SB run. Do we want to piss it away with an injury to our QB that can and does happen every year? No. We want to be prepared and it looks like we might be very well prepared.

The value of Brohm and Flynn to this team is very high and that is before you consider any future trade possibility. This is just one of many positive things that can happen when you consider the whole term of a decision rather than just the short term. Good job, Ted.

Exactly what I was gonna say about QB injuries.

I was fairly confident that either of these guys could do the job in an emergency last year, and more so this year.

I'm thinking Brohm has a lot of potential, and that in a couple of years, we can cash him in like Brunell, Hasselback, or Brooks. Maybe the same for Flynn, but I see him as more of a Zeke Bratkowski/Doug Peterson kind of Packer.

Snake was thinking the same thing as ARod is our cash cow at QB and barring injury is the far long-term answer, yet both these guys are totally different breeds of QB's. Snake loved the Brohm pick, but wow that guy REALLY disappointed me, but alas, he may turn out to be gold to step in if ARod gets hurt.

Flynn is a crafty, smart SOB that may last for a decade in the league like the Detmer boys. I like him and hope to keep him like a Doug Peterson for a decade too.

Brohm most likely (has too much talent being the top high school and college prospect at various times) will be our Hasselbeck and have a few good preseasons and get us a good pick and be a starter elsewhere.

Regardless, hopefully we hold onto Flynn as he has borderline physical talent, yet looks to be a steady backup for years if we can keep him. Love the guy!!

[Partial]

Do you guys remember how horrible Rodgers looked in his first two seasons? It's far too early to develop an opinion on Brohm. I'm sure he'll be fine. MM is a great QB coach.

[SnakeLH2006]

Do you guys remember how horrible Rodgers looked in his first two seasons? It's far too early to develop an opinion on Brohm. I'm sure he'll be fine. MM is a great QB coach.

Did you read what Snake said? Who's "you guys"? Brohm will be fine as most QB's take time to develop and Brohm will get us a first or second round pick in a few years....Or do you think Brohm will be OUR starting QB? Please elaborate..... :shock: Snake is dying to hear this...

[Partial]

Do you guys remember how horrible Rodgers looked in his first two seasons? It's far too early to develop an opinion on Brohm. I'm sure he'll be fine. MM is a great QB coach.

Did you read what Snake said? Who's "you guys"? Brohm will be fine as most QB's take time to develop and Brohm will get us a first or second round pick in a few years....Or do you think Brohm will be OUR starting QB? Please elaborate..... :shock: Snake is dying to hear this...

I wasn't responding to you. What?

[SnakeLH2006]

Do you guys remember how horrible Rodgers looked in his first two seasons? It's far too early to develop an opinion on Brohm. I'm sure he'll be fine. MM is a great QB coach.

Did you read what Snake said? Who's "you guys"? Brohm will be fine as most QB's take time to develop and Brohm will get us a first or second round pick in a few years....Or do you think Brohm will be OUR starting QB? Please elaborate..... :shock: Snake is dying to hear this...

I wasn't responding to you. What?

That's fair, but you being the Charter founder of the anti-Arod train, do you feel Brohm may replace ARod at starter at some point? I thought that was where you were going, is all.

[Partial]

Probably not. Way too soon to tell. There is absolutely nothing to support that at this point.

[KYPack]

OK Partial.

A rational statement regarding quarterbacks.

At least you are heading down back towards earth.

Every long journey starts with the first step.

[RashanGary]

I'm looking forward to seeing Brohm and Flynn perform this preseason. Rodgers had a couple big preseasons, leading the way into last years impressive showing.

Now it's these guys turn. McCarthy has coached Montana, Gannon, Favre, Delhomme, Hasselbeck, Bulger and Rodgers.

Montana learned from Walsh. McCarthy probably learned from Montanta. Favre learned from Holmgren. McCarthy taught Favre and Favre probably taught McCarthy a few tricks. Delhomme, Gannon, Hasselbeck, Bulger and Rodgers were at least partially developed by McCarthy. All seemed to move on to big things during or shortly after their time with McCarthy.

These two young guys are going to get every chance at success. One thing we take for granted from Rodgers is that he does everything right, by habit. Brohm and Flynn are developing great habits right now. The next time we see them play, they're going to have a year of shaping from a proven coach and they're both talented kids. There is no guarantee, but I think the Packers is a great situation for any young QB. Flynn has a winners savvy (winning a championship at LSU) and Brohm has lead some winning teams at Louiville. If the winners spirit/talent is there, it's going to show in this offense.

[RashanGary]

If I had to guess at Brohm and Flynn's development into NFL ready players, I'd say this.


Year 1 - Not ready, at all (complex offense, not great defense, just not ready)

Year 2 - Good fundementals, decent understanding, can win with a great surrounding cast (similar to Flacco's rookie campaign where he was asked, "don't lose the game". Maybe a little better than that because this offense is more complex so, by nature, they have to be better than what Flacco was asked to do)

Year 3 - Blast off. Fundamentals should be habit. No thinking what so ever. One of McCarthy's strong points seems to be teaching breaking down defenses. By year 3, these guys (if they're legit) should be able to quickly get to the line and understand what they're going to do out of all their concepts within seconds. They should understand what the denfese is probably trying to do and what they might try to do in that couple second span before the ball is even snapped. When the ball snaps they should be dissecting what the defense chose to do (already knowing it could only be a couple things), instead of counting their steps and wondering where the receivers are going to run.

[Waldo]

I'm looking forward to seeing Brohm and Flynn perform this preseason. Rodgers had a couple big preseasons, leading the way into last years impressive showing.

Now it's these guys turn. McCarthy has coached Montana, Gannon, Favre, Delhomme, Hasselbeck, Bulger and Rodgers.

Montana learned from Walsh. McCarthy probably learned from Montanta. Favre learned from Holmgren. McCarthy taught Favre and Favre probably taught McCarthy a few tricks. Delhomme, Gannon, Hasselbeck, Bulger and Rodgers were at least partially developed by McCarthy. All seemed to move on to big things during or shortly after their time with McCarthy.

These two young guys are going to get every chance at success. One thing we take for granted from Rodgers is that he does everything right, by habit. Brohm and Flynn are developing great habits right now. The next time we see them play, they're going to have a year of shaping from a proven coach and they're both talented kids. There is no guarantee, but I think the Packers is a great situation for any young QB. Flynn has a winners savvy (winning a championship at LSU) and Brohm has lead some winning teams at Louiville. If the winners spirit/talent is there, it's going to show in this offense.

McCarthy learned from Paul Hackett. Paul was Montana's first QB coach under Walsh. Hackett moved on to be the first branch on the Walsh tree and Holmgren took his place as QB coach.

Paul never made it to head coach in the NFL, though he's been OC a number of times. Hackett and McCarthy hooked up at Pit, then McCarthy followed Paul when he took over as OC under Marty S. in KC, MM was the QB coach.

This explains why MM's WCO philosophy is different than the Holmgren/Seifert branches, it is off another branch, the Hackett branch, that split earlier from Walsh, MM is the first in that line to make it to HC.

[Partial]

OK Partial.

A rational statement regarding quarterbacks.

At least you are heading down back towards earth.

Every long journey starts with the first step.

I would say that my arguments regarding quarterbacks are quite rational and devoid of homerism.

[rbaloha1]

Surprised Brohm struggled so much in year one. As mentioned in an earlier expect Brohm to emerge as "Mr. August" maybe in year 3 thus providing future multiple draft picks.

[KYPack]

Surprised Brohm struggled so much in year one. As mentioned in an earlier expect Brohm to emerge as "Mr. August" maybe in year 3 thus providing future multiple draft picks.

Me too.

I was always very impressed with Brian Brohm at U of L. When I was talking about college football that I watch now, I neglected to mention Louisville. They have 6-7 UL games a year on TV here. That UL attack is some neat stuff. They spread it out and go go go.

One of the best operators of that offense was defintely Brohm. Brohm had a great pocket presence and could really read defenses. If he would have left after his junior year, he'd have been a number 1 pick. Possibly even a top 10 guy. In his senior year, they didn't have much of an OLine. Brohm was usually scrambling for his life. UL runs a pro set and multiple offense. Brohm seemed a perfect pick when we got him with that two. I was so pro-Brohm, I damned near posted a bunch of stuff about Brohm giving Rodgers a serious run for his money.

Thank God I didn't make any. Brohm looked like he just fell off a turnip truck at GB this year. He hit the "rookie wall" in May.

I really think Brohm will turn out OK for us. But don't look for any sweeping predictions from me.

[SnakeLH2006]

Surprised Brohm struggled so much in year one. As mentioned in an earlier expect Brohm to emerge as "Mr. August" maybe in year 3 thus providing future multiple draft picks.

Me too.

I was always very impressed with Brian Brohm at U of L. When I was talking about college football that I watch now, I neglected to mention Louisville. They have 6-7 UL games a year on TV here. That UL attack is some neat stuff. They spread it out and go go go.

One of the best operators of that offense was defintely Brohm. Brohm had a great pocket presence and could really read defenses. If he would have left after his junior year, he'd have been a number 1 pick. Possibly even a top 10 guy. In his senior year, they didn't have much of an OLine. Brohm was usually scrambling for his life. UL runs a pro set and multiple offense. Brohm seemed a perfect pick when we got him with that two. I was so pro-Brohm, I damned near posted a bunch of stuff about Brohm giving Rodgers a serious run for his money.

Thank God I didn't make any. Brohm looked like he just fell off a turnip truck at GB this year. He hit the "rookie wall" in May.

I really think Brohm will turn out OK for us. But don't look for any sweeping predictions from me.

Snakey too, man, it's WAY....TOO EARLY to call Brohm a bust, as he has all the tools, smarts, and pedigree to beast at this NFL level, yet Snake has never seen such a "looks ready now" guy with his pedigree/hype to look SOOOOO bad in his rook season.

In retrospect, wasn't that pick ballyhooed by draft "experts" and Snake and his buddies...lol...as a great pick "in case" Arod tanked out as a starter. Now that we know Arod is a beast, this can only work out better as Brohm was just useless last year, yet he may walk the walk in the next year or two and net us a first and then some if he can live up to his status as QB beast from HS and College, and the Draft.

Snake's Take:

Brohm will work it out as QB's are a finicky breed. He's got it all, just has to learn how to play at the NFL level. We'll laugh in 2-3 years when Oakland gives us 2 firsts for him (just gotta pray Big Al is still kicking tho) :shock: :lol:

It's looking rough for Big Al though as of late (Note: is this guy human? And...man he just scares Snake..just saying, and yea it's a real pic, so fork over those 10 first rounders for Brohmy Snakey says!!!)

Wow, just damn WOW:

http://www.insidesocal.com/tomhoffarth/archives/24raiders_1_600.jpg

[CaliforniaCheez]

Rodgers looked very bad his first 2 years and you could tell the light clicked in on in year 3.

It is still risky if Rodgers is injured this season. Less risky than last year, though.

By next season things will be fine.

[KYPack]

Snake,

I really think Brohm was over confident. He played for years in a pro type offense and ran it very well. He has one brother who played in the NFL and another who is a coach. All the scouting reports said he was one of the guys who would make the transition from college to pro the best of all.

I think he believed his own press clippings. When he got behind and played poorly, he panicked. He got further behind and stayed behind the old 8 ball.

He needs a fresh start and the realization that the NFL is a whole different ball game and he has to learn it all, just like any young QB.

He's a smart, tough kid and he will bust his ass to make it.

I wisely didn't make any predictions last year and i ain't gonna make any this year, but I think he'll be OK.

Maybe.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Even as the starter, Rodgers still participates to keep himself sharp and improving, as well as to help teach Flynn and Brohm at times.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Do you guys remember how horrible Rodgers looked in his first two seasons? It's far too early to develop an opinion on Brohm. I'm sure he'll be fine. MM is a great QB coach.

ARod looked lost in his first preseason. However, Brohm didn't even look like he belonged. With ARod, you could see physical ability to lead you to believe he had a chance. Brohm looked less physically gifted than the 7th round pick last year.

Also, Rodgers did not look horrible in his second preseason. I suppose this is where you'll argue that ARod's 101 passer rating in his second preseason wasn't legit.

[mission]

To agree with Harv, Brohm makes Pennington look like he has a strong arm. I just don't see it physically... I want to! Whatever that game was when he came in last year and guys were running 8-10 yard hooks. He wasn't even in the right neighborhood on passes.

Flynn, at least he's scrappy.

[Waldo]

As time went on the QB's went different directions. Brohm actually looked pretty good early in camp, then he started to nosedive. Flynn OTOH looked like garbo until midway through camp when all of a sudden a light went on for him.

[KYPack]

To agree with Harv, Brohm makes Pennington look like he has a strong arm. I just don't see it physically... I want to! Whatever that game was when he came in last year and guys were running 8-10 yard hooks. He wasn't even in the right neighborhood on passes.

Flynn, at least he's scrappy.

Brohm impressed me with his arm at UL. In camp, the boy went into a shell like I can't believe. I feel he simply lost all his confidence and was reluctant to commit himself. He's got show something this camp. A #2 pick, he'll be given every opportunity to prove himself. If he plays as poorly this pre-season, they may be forced to make a move.

[Partial]

Do you guys remember how horrible Rodgers looked in his first two seasons? It's far too early to develop an opinion on Brohm. I'm sure he'll be fine. MM is a great QB coach.

ARod looked lost in his first preseason. However, Brohm didn't even look like he belonged. With ARod, you could see physical ability to lead you to believe he had a chance. Brohm looked less physically gifted than the 7th round pick last year.

Also, Rodgers did not look horrible in his second preseason. I suppose this is where you'll argue that ARod's 101 passer rating in his second preseason wasn't legit.

Stop with the agenda. They both looked horrible the first preseason. Absolutely terrible. Neither looked like they belonged. Knowing Rodgers was basically a baby it was more expected, and one has to be dissapointed in Brohm's showing, but stop with the agenda dude.

Rodgers second preseason was pretty bad. He had one huge game that really helped out his numbers.

You have a game where he had a 130+ rating on 6 attempts because he connected on a deep pass. What that number doesn't reflect is the fumble he lost. He also took 3 sacks. He took 10 total drop backs, and had 3 sacks, a fumble, 3 completions, and 3 incompletions. He did however connect on two deep bombs for TDs. IMO, this one is called getting lucky on the deep balls. (50% completion percentage)

In another game, he went 9 for 11, with a total of 14 drop backs, with 3 sacks, a fumble, and an int. He didn't throw any touchdowns, and had a rating of 75. (unusually high completion percentage to me says it was a lot of dump offs as that completion percentage is quite the anomaly for his preseason -- typically it was closer to 50%)

In another game, Rodgers went 2 of 6, without any TDs, sacks, fumbles, etc for a rating of 42. (33% completion percentage)

In the last game, he went 8 for 15, with 3 sacks, a fumble, and 1 td. (53% completion percentage)

Overall, he had 3 TDs (2 in one game on two long bombs), 1 int, 2 lost fumbles (1:1 ratio of TD to turnover), was sacked on ~20% of his drop backs, and had a 58% completion percentage(this number is pretty strange to me because he only had ONE game above 53%. My guess is it was a ton of dump off passes as it is a serious statistical anomaly). Not stellar numbers at all for a QB.

I'm surprised his rating was that high. I, as well as most people on this board -- most likely even including yourself Harv -- thought he looked pretty darn dissapointing in his second preseason. I would use the site search function and find some evidence from you, but I have a hella busy day ahead of me.

Here is a link for the naysayers. http://www.nfl.com/players/aaronrodgers/gamelogs?id=ROD339293&season=2006

[texaspackerbacker]

To agree with Harv, Brohm makes Pennington look like he has a strong arm. I just don't see it physically... I want to! Whatever that game was when he came in last year and guys were running 8-10 yard hooks. He wasn't even in the right neighborhood on passes.

Flynn, at least he's scrappy.

Brohm impressed me with his arm at UL. In camp, the boy went into a shell like I can't believe. I feel he simply lost all his confidence and was reluctant to commit himself. He's got show something this camp. A #2 pick, he'll be given every opportunity to prove himself. If he plays as poorly this pre-season, they may be forced to make a move.

True. This sounds a lot like Aaron Rodgers his first season or two, when he had so many detractors--for what seemed like good reason at the time. Brohm came with a good arm, and I really doubt it has gotten worse.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Here is a link for the naysayers. http://www.nfl.com/players/aaronrodgers/gamelogs?id=ROD339293&season=2006

Thanks for the proof that he wasn't HORRIBLE. He was average. Probably what you'd expect from a second year QB.

Brohm went 19 of 42 for just 155 yards with 0 TDs, 1 int, and 3 fumbles last preseason. That is horrible.

[rbaloha1]

To agree with Harv, Brohm makes Pennington look like he has a strong arm. I just don't see it physically... I want to! Whatever that game was when he came in last year and guys were running 8-10 yard hooks. He wasn't even in the right neighborhood on passes.

Flynn, at least he's scrappy.

Brohm impressed me with his arm at UL. In camp, the boy went into a shell like I can't believe. I feel he simply lost all his confidence and was reluctant to commit himself. He's got show something this camp. A #2 pick, he'll be given every opportunity to prove himself. If he plays as poorly this pre-season, they may be forced to make a move.

Recall Brohm was coached hard by his brother in college. Draft people were saying that Brohm was the most NFL ready qb and would thrive without his brother.

Well maybe they are wrong. Flynn is a scrapper and winner.

[Partial]

Here is a link for the naysayers. http://www.nfl.com/players/aaronrodgers/gamelogs?id=ROD339293&season=2006

Thanks for the proof that he wasn't HORRIBLE. He was average. Probably what you'd expect from a second year QB.

Brohm went 19 of 42 for just 155 yards with 0 TDs, 1 int, and 3 fumbles last preseason. That is horrible.

Brohm was horrible, I agree. I think its pretty unfair to compare a first year player to a second year player, though. I'm sure Brohm is going to be fine. MM knows how to coach QBs.

If I had to guess, he is the 3rd string again this year. I think he'll have another dissapointing preseason. Next year I think he'll put it together and be one of the better back-ups in the league, and eventually be a nice trade that will at least generate a second.

[RashanGary]

Count me in, with Partial, as a Brohm fan. Nothing is certain yet, but I liked the way he played in college. I like his physical tools. I like his attitude and I like the opportunity he has to work with good coaches. I expect him to be like any other young QB in a complex offense and struggle early but he'll come on starting this preseason.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm not ready to write off Brohm, but the fact is: he looked like he didn't belong last year. Not with his arm strength, accuracy, or mobility. He also looked like a deer in the headlights, and he was supposed to be the most NFL ready rookie QB of last year--and probably one of the most NFL ready rookie QBs ever.

[Partial]

I'm not ready to write off Brohm, but the fact is: he looked like he didn't belong last year. Not with his arm strength, accuracy, or mobility. He also looked like a deer in the headlights, and he was supposed to be the most NFL ready rookie QB of last year--and probably one of the most NFL ready rookie QBs ever.

Like I said.. look at Rodgers first and second year. Not great either. I suspect Brohm will be fine. MM clearly knows how to coach a QB.

Plus as a pre-draft Brohm supporter I've got a lot on the line, so he had better step it up!!

[Bossman641]

Do you guys remember how horrible Rodgers looked in his first two seasons? It's far too early to develop an opinion on Brohm. I'm sure he'll be fine. MM is a great QB coach.

ARod looked lost in his first preseason. However, Brohm didn't even look like he belonged. With ARod, you could see physical ability to lead you to believe he had a chance. Brohm looked less physically gifted than the 7th round pick last year.

Also, Rodgers did not look horrible in his second preseason. I suppose this is where you'll argue that ARod's 101 passer rating in his second preseason wasn't legit.

Stop with the agenda. They both looked horrible the first preseason. Absolutely terrible. Neither looked like they belonged. Knowing Rodgers was basically a baby it was more expected, and one has to be dissapointed in Brohm's showing, but stop with the agenda dude.

Rodgers second preseason was pretty bad. He had one huge game that really helped out his numbers.

You have a game where he had a 130+ rating on 6 attempts because he connected on a deep pass. What that number doesn't reflect is the fumble he lost. He also took 3 sacks. He took 10 total drop backs, and had 3 sacks, a fumble, 3 completions, and 3 incompletions. He did however connect on two deep bombs for TDs. IMO, this one is called getting lucky on the deep balls. (50% completion percentage)

In another game, he went 9 for 11, with a total of 14 drop backs, with 3 sacks, a fumble, and an int. He didn't throw any touchdowns, and had a rating of 75. (unusually high completion percentage to me says it was a lot of dump offs as that completion percentage is quite the anomaly for his preseason -- typically it was closer to 50%)

In another game, Rodgers went 2 of 6, without any TDs, sacks, fumbles, etc for a rating of 42. (33% completion percentage)

In the last game, he went 8 for 15, with 3 sacks, a fumble, and 1 td. (53% completion percentage)

Overall, he had 3 TDs (2 in one game on two long bombs), 1 int, 2 lost fumbles (1:1 ratio of TD to turnover), was sacked on ~20% of his drop backs, and had a 58% completion percentage(this number is pretty strange to me because he only had ONE game above 53%. My guess is it was a ton of dump off passes as it is a serious statistical anomaly). Not stellar numbers at all for a QB.

I'm surprised his rating was that high. I, as well as most people on this board -- most likely even including yourself Harv -- thought he looked pretty darn dissapointing in his second preseason. I would use the site search function and find some evidence from you, but I have a hella busy day ahead of me.

Here is a link for the naysayers. http://www.nfl.com/players/aaronrodgers/gamelogs?id=ROD339293&season=2006

Partial

I will give you props. I actually agree with you for once. Nice to see you use stats to back up your argument rather than beliefs and "it."

Good breakdwon

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'll go back to my posts analyzing his play... at the time.

http://packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=2632&highlight=aaron+rodgers


The only really good things to come out of this camp have been the play of Aaron Rodgers and possibly Greg Jennings.

http://packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=4497&highlight=aaron+rodgers


Like some others, I wasn't too enamored with the ARod pick last year, but I saw enough this preseason to think he has a shot.

http://packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=3053&highlight=aaron+rodgers


Positives
4) Aaron Rodgers had two good games and a good scrimmage.


Aaron Rodgers has looked good

http://packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=2572&highlight=aaron+rodgers

[SnakeLH2006]

Do you guys remember how horrible Rodgers looked in his first two seasons? It's far too early to develop an opinion on Brohm. I'm sure he'll be fine. MM is a great QB coach.

ARod looked lost in his first preseason. However, Brohm didn't even look like he belonged. With ARod, you could see physical ability to lead you to believe he had a chance. Brohm looked less physically gifted than the 7th round pick last year.

Also, Rodgers did not look horrible in his second preseason. I suppose this is where you'll argue that ARod's 101 passer rating in his second preseason wasn't legit.

Stop with the agenda. They both looked horrible the first preseason. Absolutely terrible. Neither looked like they belonged. Knowing Rodgers was basically a baby it was more expected, and one has to be dissapointed in Brohm's showing, but stop with the agenda dude.

Rodgers second preseason was pretty bad. He had one huge game that really helped out his numbers.

You have a game where he had a 130+ rating on 6 attempts because he connected on a deep pass. What that number doesn't reflect is the fumble he lost. He also took 3 sacks. He took 10 total drop backs, and had 3 sacks, a fumble, 3 completions, and 3 incompletions. He did however connect on two deep bombs for TDs. IMO, this one is called getting lucky on the deep balls. (50% completion percentage)

In another game, he went 9 for 11, with a total of 14 drop backs, with 3 sacks, a fumble, and an int. He didn't throw any touchdowns, and had a rating of 75. (unusually high completion percentage to me says it was a lot of dump offs as that completion percentage is quite the anomaly for his preseason -- typically it was closer to 50%)

In another game, Rodgers went 2 of 6, without any TDs, sacks, fumbles, etc for a rating of 42. (33% completion percentage)

In the last game, he went 8 for 15, with 3 sacks, a fumble, and 1 td. (53% completion percentage)

Overall, he had 3 TDs (2 in one game on two long bombs), 1 int, 2 lost fumbles (1:1 ratio of TD to turnover), was sacked on ~20% of his drop backs, and had a 58% completion percentage(this number is pretty strange to me because he only had ONE game above 53%. My guess is it was a ton of dump off passes as it is a serious statistical anomaly). Not stellar numbers at all for a QB.

I'm surprised his rating was that high. I, as well as most people on this board -- most likely even including yourself Harv -- thought he looked pretty darn dissapointing in his second preseason. I would use the site search function and find some evidence from you, but I have a hella busy day ahead of me.

Here is a link for the naysayers. http://www.nfl.com/players/aaronrodgers/gamelogs?id=ROD339293&season=2006

Partial

I will give you props. I actually agree with you for once. Nice to see you use stats to back up your argument rather than beliefs and "it."

Good breakdwon

I agree. Partial, that looked logical using stats...and I do agree with the statistical breakdown, but going back to KY's post, the #1 thing for a QB is confidence (well, after having the ability to play QB of course).

Arod didn't look great in his first few preseaons, but he did NOT look absolutely dreadful and embarrassing out there. ARod always had a chip on his shoulder it seems since his fall in the draft..You could tell he knew he belonged, but lacked the experience.

Brohm had all the experience, but when it didn't go his way, he really nosedived and you could tell he was just trying to "avoid" mistakes more than make a play...which is a downfall for playing QB in the NFL. You are bound to fail with that mindset.

That might explain it as Snake can't remember a QB EVER looking that shaky (like he might just fumble on EVERY snap or throw a weak-armed duck to the DL) since the man himself, Packer great, TJ Rubley....Yeah, he looked THAT bad last year...but with all that talent, I'm sure he's bound to come back on this year. He just needs a fresh start this year.

BTW, Snake's willing to say it, but I thought ARod's arm looked quite weak until his coming out party 2008 when he threw some rockets. I no longer have doubts on his arm strength. As far as Brohm, yeah, he looked dreadful overall, but I swear Ty Detmer could have beat him with his arm last preseason. Hopefully it was mechanics, as the scouts sure liked his arm.

[mission]

Hopefully it was mechanics, as the scouts sure liked his arm.

Yeah, to be fair, it looked like he was just behind somewhere between his brain and his body, and there was a quarter second of hesitation... almost "long-armed" the throws. I just want to see a couple throws where everything is in sync. That can make a big difference and one I hadn't considered. Definitely not givin up on the kid tho... we've seen first hand how guys progress.