ted takes it to a whole new level

[red]

we all know tt loves to stroke is ego by trying to find diamonds in the rough, but this is getting out of hand

now he's going after guys that didn't even play college ball and haven't played the game in 4 years

from pft


Packers Looking At Duke Basketball Player
Posted by Aaron Wilson on April 13, 2009, 8:12 p.m.

The Green Bay Packers have worked out Duke University basketball player Greg Paulus, according to a league source.

Paulus is a former high school Gatorade Football Player of the Year selection who was offered football scholarships to Notre Dame and the University of Miami, but chose to play basketball at Duke.

Paulus was a three-year starter for the Blue Devils at point guard who was once named second-team All-ACC. He was a third-team Academic All-American selection.

A four-time all-state football player in New York, Paulus is listed at 6′1,” 180 pounds on the Duke basketball roster.

Paulus set six New York state passing records, including career passing yards (11,763). He threw 152 touchdown passes in 45 career games, leading his high school to a 42-3 record with him under center.

Paulus was the starting quarterback in the U.S. Army All-American game, also garnering All-American football honos from Parade Magazine.


for one, we do not need a qb, much less one that hasn't played college ball. and two, why the fuck is he wasting his time on shit like this at this crucial point in scouting?

like i mentioned in another thread, every other team out there is interviewing and working out potential first and second round picks like crazy. every player they might draft they bring in and talk to and work out.

not us. the only guys we're bringing in are possible late round gems. it almost seems like TT cares more about those late round picks the his first rounder.

to me there is absolutely no excuse why he hasn't brought in every possible first day draft pick over the last month and a half and had complete workouts with them

he's a scout, nothing more imo

[bobblehead]

so, are you sure he hasn't brought in several guys that might go #9? Is there so much more to learn than he has learned already? Would you rather he doesn't even look at a guy who is a fantastic athlete?

Don't misunderstand, I think this guy won't ever play a down in the NFL, but the reaction you are having shows your bias pretty badly. TT has watched more hours of tape on college guys than you will work in the next 2 years.

If you are really looking to start another "what the hell is TT doing" thread I think you can do better than this.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Paulus was actually one of the most highly recruited QBs out of high school when he came out. Most thought he'd play QB at a major college (I thought Florida State was the frontrunner) and also try basketball. Instead, he went with the sport that he wasn't as highly rated in.

[Lurker64]

Ted uses all of his allowed visits to look at guys he doesn't have enough tape on and guys he didn't have the opportunity to scout live during the season. First day picks, and guys who didn't play football in major conferences are guys he has no shortage of scouting on, and has been done scouting for weeks if not months. If you saw a guy live, have hours and hours, and hours of tape on him, and you've spoken to him at his pro day and at the combine, why do you need to bring him in for a visit? Plus, this is not a "crucial time of scouting". This is like cramming for a test two hours before you have to take it, if you aren't done already it's too late.

Plus, he's scouting this guy to be a TE, not a QB. Basketball players with little football experience sometimes turn out to be great TEs in the NFL (c.f. Antonio Gates, who didn't play football in college at all).

[pittstang5]

so, are you sure he hasn't brought in several guys that might go #9? Is there so much more to learn than he has learned already? Would you rather he doesn't even look at a guy who is a fantastic athlete?

Don't misunderstand, I think this guy won't ever play a down in the NFL, but the reaction you are having shows your bias pretty badly. TT has watched more hours of tape on college guys than you will work in the next 2 years.

If you are really looking to start another "what the hell is TT doing" thread I think you can do better than this.

Well said Bobble. I'm sure TT knows all that he wants to know by now about the well known first and second round talents. TT has always kept details close to his vest. This isn't new a concept here. TT or the Packers for that matter, have never brought in the big name or potential 1st or 2nd round talents to GB as long as TT has been running the show.

[Joemailman]

Ted uses all of his allowed visits to look at guys he doesn't have enough tape on and guys he didn't have the opportunity to scout live during the season. First day picks, and guys who didn't play football in major conferences are guys he has no shortage of scouting on, and has been done scouting for weeks if not months. If you saw a guy live, have hours and hours, and hours of tape on him, and you've spoken to him at his pro day and at the combine, why do you need to bring him in for a visit? Plus, this is not a "crucial time of scouting". This is like cramming for a test two hours before you have to take it, if you aren't done already it's too late.

Plus, he's scouting this guy to be a TE, not a QB. Basketball players with little football experience sometimes turn out to be great TEs in the NFL (c.f. Antonio Gates, who didn't play football in college at all).

He's scouting Paulus to be a TE? The story says he's 6-1, 180. :?:

[red]

so, are you sure he hasn't brought in several guys that might go #9? Is there so much more to learn than he has learned already? Would you rather he doesn't even look at a guy who is a fantastic athlete?

Don't misunderstand, I think this guy won't ever play a down in the NFL, but the reaction you are having shows your bias pretty badly. TT has watched more hours of tape on college guys than you will work in the next 2 years.

If you are really looking to start another "what the hell is TT doing" thread I think you can do better than this.

no he hasn't. agents usually leak when there players visit a team to stir up more interest in them, so its not like tt is bringing them it and keeping a lid on it. waldo gave a list a couple days ago and it was like 10 later round guys. he did say though that they talked to a lot of guys at the combine. but why the hell stop at that?

bring in andre smith, find out if he's really nuts, or whats going on there

bring in raji and have him talk to you about the drug rumors, face to face

bring in cushing and give him a piss tests and ask him about the roid rumors

bring in jerron gilbert and run him through lb drills and have him go over some game film to see if he can play and understand the lber position

bring in all these guys and ask them tough questions

these guys should be getting interviewed more then just once or twice at the combine

it just looks to be like tt is leaving a whole lot of stones unturned and not doing everthing he should be at this point

[MJZiggy]

It said the Green Bay Packers. Not Ted Thompson. Who on earth knows who the kid met with. I somehow doubt it was TT, though.

[pittstang5]

How do you know that TT or more importantly his scouts haven't already done the things you are asking him to do? You make it seem like TT doesn't do his homework. The guy gets paid to find talent and build a team...let him do his job.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Eric Swann - 10 years, 2 pro bowls, 2 all pro
Otis Sistrunk - 7 years, 1 pro bowl
Stephen Neal
Vince Papale

Yep, i would hate to have any player like that on the Packers.

[pbmax]

If I recall correctly, Ted has never brought in first day guys to Green Bay. He doesn't want to tip his hand.

But I would suspect that even Waldo's list is missing a few names. Scout.com tracks this stuff but doesn't have anywhere near the 30 names that would represent the Packers full allotment.

On the other hand, the Packer's have dispatched scouts and coaches to go back to players they want to visit again if there is new info during this month. So Raji might have met with the Packers outside of Green Bay after the rumors.

But remember, the Raji rumors are either fact or fiction. There is no he said-BJ said here. His name is either on the list or it isn't. And the Packers know this by now. There may be no reason to talk to him. The agents said he never received the letter and the program admin would not talk to him. Unless they are flat out lying, he is probably in the clear.

[Lurker64]

He's scouting Paulus to be a TE? The story says he's 6-1, 180. :?:

Or a WR or a RB. There's no way Thompson would scout a guy to be a QB if he hasn't played QB in college, considering that most college QBs aren't going to be able to play QB in the NFL. He's basically being scouted as "an athlete" to see if there's a position for him.

[pbmax]

Red- The Packers cannot give Cushing their own urinalysis. And unlike us, the Packers already know if Cushing tested positive or not. They don't need another test, they have the combine drug test results.

[red]

Red- The Packers cannot give Cushing their own urinalysis. And unlike us, the Packers already know if Cushing tested positive or not. They don't need another test, they have the combine drug test results.

i think thats something they should be allowed to do. if i go in for an interview for a job, i have to take a piss test.

and they aren't even throwing 30 million at me

as for raji. even if he did fail the test, he's at a position and a talent level that you would have to at least consider him at 9 if he's there. now, before the list comes out you bring him in and explain his side. if he comes clean and admits to toking up and explains it a one time thing, then maybe you still consider drafting the guy. however, if you sit him down and he tells you flat to your face that he doesn't smoke and hasn't in a long tim, and then if the list comes out and he's on it, then he's a guy you flat out take off your board

you can get a very good idea about a guy by getting him off the field and sitting him down in the office and just talking to him.

is he a thug? a party boy? a moron or idiot? is he smart, or level headed?

you can usually get a good idea about these things by just talking with someone for awhile

[sheepshead]

Maybe it's the PACERS that are working him out!

[red]

Maybe it's the PACERS that are working him out!

that would make a whole hell of a lot more sense

[Lurker64]

these guys should be getting interviewed more then just once or twice at the combine


you can usually get a good idea about these things by just talking with someone for awhile

Which of these statements should I believe? How many times do you have to interview a guy before you can determine he is/isn't nuts? Presumably all of these guys have been talked to by our scouts at least twice, and their coaches have been consulted. What's magical about talking to them three times versus twice?

(Also, for the record Jarron Gilbert will be playing DE in a 3-4, since he was an under-tackle in the 4-3, it's pretty much automatic that he can make the switch if he has the frame for it (he does), nobody on earth would have him do LB drills.)

[red]

yeah, i knew that about gilbert, somehow i got things all jumbled up during my rant

most people i know including myself have been brought in more then once for an interview. there's a reason for that

plus, how good of an interview do you get at the combine. what is it, like 15 minutes or so with each team, or 30 minutes. its like speed dating. plus the guys are being prepared for month by their agents to say certain thingsat those interviews.

i would want the guy in for a couple hours, without his agent, and discuss everything, to try and get to the real person, not just the robot the agent turned the guy into.

[PlantPage55]

We work out several basketball players every freaking year, god dammit. You act like this is a new, arrogant thing for TT to do. Get over your hate for him - it's making you look like a fool.

This is nothing out of the ordinary and we have never drafted a single ONE of them. It's just a curiosity to see if any one of these guys stand out.

As for bringing in #9 picks...why? We have ALL the tape and time at pro days with these guys that we need. Honestly, get a grip.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

yeah, i knew that about gilbert, somehow i got things all jumbled up during my rant

most people i know including myself have been brought in more then once for an interview. there's a reason for that

plus, how good of an interview do you get at the combine. what is it, like 15 minutes or so with each team, or 30 minutes. its like speed dating. plus the guys are being prepared for month by their agents to say certain thingsat those interviews.

i would want the guy in for a couple hours, without his agent, and discuss everything, to try and get to the real person, not just the robot the agent turned the guy into.

You are closing in on Partial territory.

No one is interested in what you think should happen, we are interested in what does happen. Your opinion of how to interview, etc...isn't reality. A couple of hours..LOL. Exactly how many players would you like us to evaluate?

A bunch of half truths and conjecture doesn't make it truth.

The NFL and Packers have been drafting/interviewing for years...with different coaches, GMs, etc...and yet, bad apples get chosen, bad apples fail and succeed...just as good players and role models fail.

No matter how you do things, it is a crapshoot.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

We work out several basketball players every freaking year, god dammit. You act like this is a new, arrogant thing for TT to do. Get over your hate for him - it's making you look like a fool.

This is nothing out of the ordinary and we have never drafted a single ONE of them. It's just a curiosity to see if any one of these guys stand out.

As for bringing in #9 picks...why? We have ALL the tape and time at pro days with these guys that we need. Honestly, get a grip.

Exactly. The point is to draft them..it is to see if they are worth a free agent contract. It isn't like the pack/TT is checking out every bball player...it is Greg freaking Paulus. All american QB in high school. If there is a guy to check out..this is one of them. Jesus, if Matt Cassel, who saw NO action on the field can develop, then why not Paulus?

I seem to recall the purdue center Jim Rowinski was invited to camp. Maybe i'm wrong, but i do recall a purdue center being drafted or invited...think it was the 80s.

But, not according to Red. But, i fucking guarantee you this...if Paulus was drafted and invited to another camp..and made the squad...Red would be ranting that TT wasn't searching hard enough for those type of players.

[Lurker64]

plus, how good of an interview do you get at the combine. what is it, like 15 minutes or so with each team, or 30 minutes. its like speed dating. plus the guys are being prepared for month by their agents to say certain thingsat those interviews.

As far as I know, Green Bay gathers character and personality information on candidates through the following sources:
1) Combine interviews.
2) Pro Day interviews.
3) Talking to the guy during practice weeks for college all star games (e.g. shrine game, senior bowl, etc.)
4) Talking to a guy's coaches.

I'd say that's enough different sources to gauge the top guys (who are the ones who are subject to the greatest scrutiny anyway), wouldn't you? I mean, if Michael Crabtree had an arrest for arson, ESPN would just tell you that, since it's a big story. If Greg Toller is a sociopath, that's not something you would necessarily learn from reading the paper though.

[Zool]

Paulus was actually one of the most highly recruited QBs out of high school when he came out. Most thought he'd play QB at a major college (I thought Florida State was the frontrunner) and also try basketball. Instead, he went with the sport that he wasn't as highly rated in.

IIR Harv, this kid is Ron Paulus' little brother and he was leaning toward ND.

BTW there's a guy in SD that didnt play much college football. He seems to be OK at football now.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Paulus was actually one of the most highly recruited QBs out of high school when he came out. Most thought he'd play QB at a major college (I thought Florida State was the frontrunner) and also try basketball. Instead, he went with the sport that he wasn't as highly rated in.

IIR Harv, this kid is Ron Paulus' little brother and he was leaning toward ND.

BTW there's a guy in SD that didnt play much college football. He seems to be OK at football now.

Zool,

I think you meant IIRI (incorrectly). :wink:

Ron POWLUS went to ND. Greg was the Gatorade National Player of the year in 04..and like Mauer..spurned football.

BTW, there seems to be a younger brother who learned from his brother's mistake.

http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=8&c=1&nid=2250643

[Packnut]

so, are you sure he hasn't brought in several guys that might go #9? Is there so much more to learn than he has learned already? Would you rather he doesn't even look at a guy who is a fantastic athlete?

Don't misunderstand, I think this guy won't ever play a down in the NFL, but the reaction you are having shows your bias pretty badly. TT has watched more hours of tape on college guys than you will work in the next 2 years.

If you are really looking to start another "what the hell is TT doing" thread I think you can do better than this.

And what the hell does Teddy watching all that tape accomplish? Drafting Justin Harrell? I hate to break this to ya, but watching billions of hours of tape does not mean a damn thing if you can't evaluate what your watching.

[KYPack]

This is intrepreted as an "anti-TT" deal?

The Packer Organization is evaluating Paulus, not Thompson personally. I'm happy our scouts are doing a thorough job. Most teams don't have the resources in their scouting departments to do such a comprehnsive job.

We do have the manpower to get it done.

That's a good thing.

[cheesner]

And what the hell does Teddy watching all that tape accomplish? Drafting Justin Harrell? I hate to break this to ya, but watching billions of hours of tape does not mean a damn thing if you can't evaluate what your watching.
Do you really expect a GM to hit on every pick? If TT hits on every pick it would be the first time for any GM in the history of the NFL.


Another source of player information: Teammates. Both current and former players - this is one of the best sources cause they know what the guy does when the coaches aren't around..

[Patler]

And what the hell does Teddy watching all that tape accomplish? Drafting Justin Harrell? I hate to break this to ya, but watching billions of hours of tape does not mean a damn thing if you can't evaluate what your watching.

I suspect the tape he had on Harrell was actually impressive. Before his senior year, Harrell was projected as a top 10 pick by many.

It just amazes me how so many of you criticize the heck out of TT for being conservative, not taking a chance. Then he takes a chance on a highly talented player, it doesn't work out immediately, so you criticize him for that.

Even the very best of GMs miss on a heck of a lot of their draft picks.

[Gunakor]

so, are you sure he hasn't brought in several guys that might go #9? Is there so much more to learn than he has learned already? Would you rather he doesn't even look at a guy who is a fantastic athlete?

Don't misunderstand, I think this guy won't ever play a down in the NFL, but the reaction you are having shows your bias pretty badly. TT has watched more hours of tape on college guys than you will work in the next 2 years.

If you are really looking to start another "what the hell is TT doing" thread I think you can do better than this.

And what the hell does Teddy watching all that tape accomplish? Drafting Justin Harrell? I hate to break this to ya, but watching billions of hours of tape does not mean a damn thing if you can't evaluate what your watching.

Harrell was an SEC stud. It's hard to watch billions of hours of tape on him from his days at Tennessee and not come away with that impression of him.

Honestly though, do you really think that missing on Harrell is the reason this team went 6-10 last season? Do you think that even if Harrell were healthy and dominating teams last season just the same as he was in college that we'd have been a 10 win team hosting a playoff game, even considering all of the other injuries to players not named Justin Harrell our defense had to overcome? Doubt it. If Harrell is the best knock against Thompson you can come up with, I think we're in pretty good shape.

[bobblehead]

so, are you sure he hasn't brought in several guys that might go #9? Is there so much more to learn than he has learned already? Would you rather he doesn't even look at a guy who is a fantastic athlete?

Don't misunderstand, I think this guy won't ever play a down in the NFL, but the reaction you are having shows your bias pretty badly. TT has watched more hours of tape on college guys than you will work in the next 2 years.

If you are really looking to start another "what the hell is TT doing" thread I think you can do better than this.

And what the hell does Teddy watching all that tape accomplish? Drafting Justin Harrell? I hate to break this to ya, but watching billions of hours of tape does not mean a damn thing if you can't evaluate what your watching.

So what is your point?? I was responding to red who was complaining TT was doing the WRONG thing. I didn't say he was good at evaluating talent (in this thread) so your post has no point other than the one you interjected.

I hate to break it to ya, but posting that the sky is blue in a thread about the moon doesn't mean a damn thing if you can't figure out what the topic is.

[cpk1994]

Even the very best of GMs miss on a heck of a lot of their draft picks.

See Wolf, Ron. 1st Round draft record.

[Bossman641]

What is it with Packer fans and Harrell? It is ridiculous. Has he been a disappointment (too early to call him a bust) thus far? No question. That doesn't mean he is done though.

No GM gets every pick correct. No GM gets every first round pick correct. If I remember correctly, the Vikings don't have a single player from the 2005 draft on their team.

1. Troy Williamson
1. Erasmus James
2. Marcus Johnson
3. Dustin Fox
4. Ciatrick Fiason

Do their fans sit around all day bitching? Honestly, I thought Packer fans were supposed to be smart and knowledgeable, yet I've never heard any team's fans complain about a missed draft pick the way Packer fans do about Harrell. Does that make it acceptable to miss on draft picks? NO. But when you have way more hits then misses, as TT does, you get the benefit of the doubt.

[Lurker64]

The stock answer is "When you don't participate in free agency, you can't afford to miss any draft picks" which is frankly an unfair standard. Teams that don't participate much in free agency and primarily develop from within miss on draft picks all the time. The Patriots missed badly on Chad Jackson. The Steelers got roughly nothing out of Mendenhall last year, Santonio Holmes is kind of "just a guy", Heath Miller is also kind of JAG-ey, and they have the worst offensive line in the NFL bar none.

Teams miss on draft picks. Teams that use FA extensively, and teams that don't. But there doesn't seem to be any strong positive correlation between "extensive use of FA" and "success on the field."

[Packgator]

we all know tt loves to stroke is ego by trying to find diamonds in the rough, but this is getting out of hand

Any interest isn't for the purpose of drafting him.......rather signing him as a FA right after the draft. Good move by the Packers/TT.......happy to know they are being thorough and (what looks to be) well prepared. In other words.....doing their job.

[K-town]

The stock answer is "When you don't participate in free agency, you can't afford to miss any draft picks" which is frankly an unfair standard. Teams that don't participate much in free agency and primarily develop from within miss on draft picks all the time. The Patriots missed badly on Chad Jackson. The Steelers got roughly nothing out of Mendenhall last year, Santonio Holmes is kind of "just a guy", Heath Miller is also kind of JAG-ey, and they have the worst offensive line in the NFL bar none.

Teams miss on draft picks. Teams that use FA extensively, and teams that don't. But there doesn't seem to be any strong positive correlation between "extensive use of FA" and "success on the field."

I rarely disagree with your postings, but on this one:
1) I think Santonio Holmes is a player with a lot of upside, who showed up big in the Super Bowl.
2) I think Heath Miller is more than a JAG. I bet a lot of teams would like to have him as a TE. He could be like the Steeler's version Owen Daniels, if he were used better.
3) I think we can find some O-lines worse than Pittsburgh's. How'd you like to stand behind the pass-blocking of, oh, say, Detroit?

Beyond these points, however, I basically agree with your stance on

there doesn't seem to be any strong positive correlation between "extensive use of FA" and "success on the field."

[cheesner]

The stock answer is "When you don't participate in free agency, you can't afford to miss any draft picks" which is frankly an unfair standard. Teams that don't participate much in free agency and primarily develop from within miss on draft picks all the time. The Patriots missed badly on Chad Jackson. The Steelers got roughly nothing out of Mendenhall last year, Santonio Holmes is kind of "just a guy", Heath Miller is also kind of JAG-ey, and they have the worst offensive line in the NFL bar none.

Teams miss on draft picks. Teams that use FA extensively, and teams that don't. But there doesn't seem to be any strong positive correlation between "extensive use of FA" and "success on the field."I dissagree on Holmes, but you are made a valid point.

Comparing the last few teams to win the SB: Steelers, NYG, and NE; Thompson has drafted as well as or better than any of these teams.

[cpk1994]

The Patriots missed badly on Chad Jackson.

Funbny that you mention him. There were more than a few on here that raked TT over the coals becuase he took Jennings over Jackson. Good thing TT doesn't listen to the fans.

[Gunakor]

The Patriots missed badly on Chad Jackson.

Funbny that you mention him. There were more than a few on here that raked TT over the coals becuase he took Jennings over Jackson. Good thing TT doesn't listen to the fans.

Wait, wait. That can't be right. Greg Jennings is the ONLY blue chipper TT has ever drafted, according to a few sources I assume to be legitimate Packer fans. How could it be possible that our knowledgeable fans were raking our GM over the coals for drafting his ONLY blue chip player in any draft he's run as a member of our franchise?

[Fritz]

so, are you sure he hasn't brought in several guys that might go #9? Is there so much more to learn than he has learned already? Would you rather he doesn't even look at a guy who is a fantastic athlete?

Don't misunderstand, I think this guy won't ever play a down in the NFL, but the reaction you are having shows your bias pretty badly. TT has watched more hours of tape on college guys than you will work in the next 2 years.

If you are really looking to start another "what the hell is TT doing" thread I think you can do better than this.

And what the hell does Teddy watching all that tape accomplish? Drafting Justin Harrell? I hate to break this to ya, but watching billions of hours of tape does not mean a damn thing if you can't evaluate what your watching.

John Brockington went to Ohio State.

So what is your point?? I was responding to red who was complaining TT was doing the WRONG thing. I didn't say he was good at evaluating talent (in this thread) so your post has no point other than the one you interjected.

I hate to break it to ya, but posting that the sky is blue in a thread about the moon doesn't mean a damn thing if you can't figure out what the topic is.

[bobblehead]

so, are you sure he hasn't brought in several guys that might go #9? Is there so much more to learn than he has learned already? Would you rather he doesn't even look at a guy who is a fantastic athlete?

Don't misunderstand, I think this guy won't ever play a down in the NFL, but the reaction you are having shows your bias pretty badly. TT has watched more hours of tape on college guys than you will work in the next 2 years.

If you are really looking to start another "what the hell is TT doing" thread I think you can do better than this.

And what the hell does Teddy watching all that tape accomplish? Drafting Justin Harrell? I hate to break this to ya, but watching billions of hours of tape does not mean a damn thing if you can't evaluate what your watching.

John Brockington went to Ohio State.

So what is your point?? I was responding to red who was complaining TT was doing the WRONG thing. I didn't say he was good at evaluating talent (in this thread) so your post has no point other than the one you interjected.

I hate to break it to ya, but posting that the sky is blue in a thread about the moon doesn't mean a damn thing if you can't figure out what the topic is.

Mars is the red planet.

[bobblehead]

so, are you sure he hasn't brought in several guys that might go #9? Is there so much more to learn than he has learned already? Would you rather he doesn't even look at a guy who is a fantastic athlete?

Don't misunderstand, I think this guy won't ever play a down in the NFL, but the reaction you are having shows your bias pretty badly. TT has watched more hours of tape on college guys than you will work in the next 2 years.

If you are really looking to start another "what the hell is TT doing" thread I think you can do better than this.

And what the hell does Teddy watching all that tape accomplish? Drafting Justin Harrell? I hate to break this to ya, but watching billions of hours of tape does not mean a damn thing if you can't evaluate what your watching.

John Brockington went to Ohio State.

So what is your point?? I was responding to red who was complaining TT was doing the WRONG thing. I didn't say he was good at evaluating talent (in this thread) so your post has no point other than the one you interjected.

I hate to break it to ya, but posting that the sky is blue in a thread about the moon doesn't mean a damn thing if you can't figure out what the topic is.

Mars is the red planet.

I used to carry my lunch, but now I ride a bike.

[sharpe1027]

Do their fans sit around all day bitching?

Yes. In my experience many Vikings fans do sit around bitching about thier team all day even when they are winning. However, they find plenty of other things to bitch about so the 2005 draft might be overlooked sometimes.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

The stock answer is "When you don't participate in free agency, you can't afford to miss any draft picks" which is frankly an unfair standard. Teams that don't participate much in free agency and primarily develop from within miss on draft picks all the time. The Patriots missed badly on Chad Jackson. The Steelers got roughly nothing out of Mendenhall last year, Santonio Holmes is kind of "just a guy", Heath Miller is also kind of JAG-ey, and they have the worst offensive line in the NFL bar none.

Teams miss on draft picks. Teams that use FA extensively, and teams that don't. But there doesn't seem to be any strong positive correlation between "extensive use of FA" and "success on the field."

I agree totally with the argument, but think your examples are pretty poor.

Mendenhall: A guy getting injured isn't a miss.

Holmes: Left college early. He STARTED his rookie year..and WR is considered to be a hard position to earn time at in your rookie year. 49 receptions for 824 yards. That was more than a certain Packer rookie that EVERYONE was gaga over.

2007 he led the steelers in yards and TDs and emerged as one of the better deep threats in the NFL. 942 yards and 8 tds..and led the league in yards per catch. Pretty much the equal of a certain Packer second year receiver.

08...MVP of the superbowl.

Let's not forget that he plays for a RUSHING TEAM.

Heath Miller: You are just high. Miller is regarded as one of the best TEs in the league. As compared to the league average in TDs and yards for TEs...he is well above.

[Packnut]

And what the hell does Teddy watching all that tape accomplish? Drafting Justin Harrell? I hate to break this to ya, but watching billions of hours of tape does not mean a damn thing if you can't evaluate what your watching.
Do you really expect a GM to hit on every pick? If TT hits on every pick it would be the first time for any GM in the history of the NFL.


Another source of player information: Teammates. Both current and former players - this is one of the best sources cause they know what the guy does when the coaches aren't around..

Well, I obviously expect more out of our GM than some here do. This ain't no charity job. Thompson get's paid a lot of money and I expect him to live up to what he's being paid. So far, any sane rational person would be hard pressed to say we've gotten our money's worth.

1 blue chip player and one with potential (Rodgers) in 4 years? How many starters? Capable back-ups?

Lastly- how many holes on this team?

Do the math-Teddy oughtta fork back over a wad of cash to the Green Bay Packers..............

[Packnut]

And what the hell does Teddy watching all that tape accomplish? Drafting Justin Harrell? I hate to break this to ya, but watching billions of hours of tape does not mean a damn thing if you can't evaluate what your watching.

I suspect the tape he had on Harrell was actually impressive. Before his senior year, Harrell was projected as a top 10 pick by many.

It just amazes me how so many of you criticize the heck out of TT for being conservative, not taking a chance. Then he takes a chance on a highly talented player, it doesn't work out immediately, so you criticize him for that.

Even the very best of GMs miss on a heck of a lot of their draft picks.

Well than it's fortunate they don't graduate juniors is'nt it? C'mon, everyone knew Harrell was an injury risk except Teddy. Stop making excuses, it was a bad pick period!

[Patler]

Well, I obviously expect more out of our GM than some here do. This ain't no charity job. Thompson get's paid a lot of money and I expect him to live up to what he's being paid. So far, any sane rational person would be hard pressed to say we've gotten our money's worth.

1 blue chip player and one with potential (Rodgers) in 4 years? How many starters? Capable back-ups?

Lastly- how many holes on this team?

Do the math-Teddy oughtta fork back over a wad of cash to the Green Bay Packers..............

On offense he has done fine. He has changed 8 of the 11 starters, soon to be 9 of 11, with only Clifton and Driver being holdovers from the pre-Thompson days. In addition he has very good backups at WR and better backups in the O-line than what was here when he came. He may have a capable backup at TE, we will have to see. He has also changed the kicker, punter and snapper.

All this accomplished without significant decline in output from the offense.

Not bad. Not bad at all. In fact, it is darned impressive.

[RashanGary]

It certainly seems like we're on our way to more post season success. Can't complain.

[Joemailman]

I find it hard to gauge how much progress the Packers are making because their won/loss record fluctuates so much. Last 5 years they are 10-6, 4-12, 8-8, 13-3 and 6-10. Maybe this year will tell us something. Another 6-10 season and 2007 starts to look like a fluke. A great season in 2009, and that's 2 out of 3 with 2008 maybe being a fluke with all the close losses.

[texaspackerbacker]

What's the big deal with this Paulus thing? Ya think Thompson and his staff can't multi-task?

True, we don't need a QB, but I've been campaigning relentlessly for the Packers to get Pat Whtie--or somebody similar. I'm thinking that's Paulus--a guy who can run "wildcat" or option type plays that would provide a nice change of pace for the Packers.

[Gunakor]

And what the hell does Teddy watching all that tape accomplish? Drafting Justin Harrell? I hate to break this to ya, but watching billions of hours of tape does not mean a damn thing if you can't evaluate what your watching.
Do you really expect a GM to hit on every pick? If TT hits on every pick it would be the first time for any GM in the history of the NFL.


Another source of player information: Teammates. Both current and former players - this is one of the best sources cause they know what the guy does when the coaches aren't around..

Well, I obviously expect more out of our GM than some here do. This ain't no charity job. Thompson get's paid a lot of money and I expect him to live up to what he's being paid. So far, any sane rational person would be hard pressed to say we've gotten our money's worth.

1 blue chip player and one with potential (Rodgers) in 4 years? How many starters? Capable back-ups?

Lastly- how many holes on this team?

Do the math-Teddy oughtta fork back over a wad of cash to the Green Bay Packers..............

I think this has been brought up and answered before. 12 starters have been drafted in the last 4 years. You'd be hard pressed to find another GM in the league who has done better.

How many holes on this team? We need new offensive tackles, but we didn't need new offensive tackles as badly before this offseason. We had a need at LB, I thought, but then we switched to a 3-4. Now Aaron Kampman and Jeremy Thompson come up to play OLB and Hawk moves inside. We don't have a huge need at LB anymore. We might need another 3-4 type DE, but you could hardly blame TT for that since they just switched to a 3-4 this year.

Now, how many holes were on this team when TT took over? Needed a backup QB/eventual replacement, had two WR's (one of which got hurt in week 1) and then Ferguson as his #3, had a RB nearing 30 years old and declining fast and nobody worth the ink on their contracts backing him up, just one linebacker worth a shit, AHMAD CARROLL, and a seriously fucked up cap situation limiting his ability to fix very much in the first year.

All in all, I'd say we are much better off now than we were in 2005. So why should Thompson have to repay anything back to the Packers?

[Gunakor]

Well, I obviously expect more out of our GM than some here do. This ain't no charity job. Thompson get's paid a lot of money and I expect him to live up to what he's being paid. So far, any sane rational person would be hard pressed to say we've gotten our money's worth.

1 blue chip player and one with potential (Rodgers) in 4 years? How many starters? Capable back-ups?

Lastly- how many holes on this team?

Do the math-Teddy oughtta fork back over a wad of cash to the Green Bay Packers..............

On offense he has done fine. He has changed 8 of the 11 starters, soon to be 9 of 11, with only Clifton and Driver being holdovers from the pre-Thompson days. In addition he has very good backups at WR and better backups in the O-line than what was here when he came. He may have a capable backup at TE, we will have to see. He has also changed the kicker, punter and snapper.

All this accomplished without significant decline in output from the offense.

Not bad. Not bad at all. In fact, it is darned impressive.

Not to mention he's done all of this while fixing the cap disaster he inherited. Fixed it and then some.

[Gunakor]

And what the hell does Teddy watching all that tape accomplish? Drafting Justin Harrell? I hate to break this to ya, but watching billions of hours of tape does not mean a damn thing if you can't evaluate what your watching.

I suspect the tape he had on Harrell was actually impressive. Before his senior year, Harrell was projected as a top 10 pick by many.

It just amazes me how so many of you criticize the heck out of TT for being conservative, not taking a chance. Then he takes a chance on a highly talented player, it doesn't work out immediately, so you criticize him for that.

Even the very best of GMs miss on a heck of a lot of their draft picks.

Well than it's fortunate they don't graduate juniors is'nt it? C'mon, everyone knew Harrell was an injury risk except Teddy. Stop making excuses, it was a bad pick period!

No, Teddy knew too. He weighed that risk against the potential he showed when healthy and decided it was worth the risk. If Teddy didn't draft him, Shanahan would have, and for the same reason. Harrell was a stud DT playing for a school known to put out some pretty good defensive linemen, playing in a conference known for it's football prowess. Again, if Harrell is the best you can come up with, we are okay. Missing on Harrell is NOT the reason Green Bay went 6-10 last season. Yeah, in hindsight it doesn't look like the best of picks. But you know what? Every GM makes bad picks. Even in the first round. So get over it.

[MJZiggy]

I think Packnut's finally posted himself into irrelevance.

[Lurker64]

True, we don't need a QB, but I've been campaigning relentlessly for the Packers to get Pat Whtie--or somebody similar. I'm thinking that's Paulus--a guy who can run "wildcat" or option type plays that would provide a nice change of pace for the Packers.

I think if the Packers had their heart set on running the Wildcat or something similar, an easy substitution would be to put in Ruvell Martin as the QB, since he played QB in high school, and was the third string QB briefly in 2007.

Aren't you the guy who's always looking to solve problems with people we already have on the roster? Give Ruvell some love!

[Zool]

Paulus was actually one of the most highly recruited QBs out of high school when he came out. Most thought he'd play QB at a major college (I thought Florida State was the frontrunner) and also try basketball. Instead, he went with the sport that he wasn't as highly rated in.

IIR Harv, this kid is Ron Paulus' little brother and he was leaning toward ND.

BTW there's a guy in SD that didnt play much college football. He seems to be OK at football now.

Zool,

I think you meant IIRI (incorrectly). :wink:

Ron POWLUS went to ND. Greg was the Gatorade National Player of the year in 04..and like Mauer..spurned football.

BTW, there seems to be a younger brother who learned from his brother's mistake.

http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=8&c=1&nid=2250643

Shit you're right. I made that same mistake when he was coming out I think too. Thats what I get for reading the internet.

[bobblehead]

I think Packnut's finally posted himself into irrelevance.

I nominate that Packnut be stripped of the title cerebral rat and be designated hysterical rat.

[cheesner]

Well, I obviously expect more out of our GM than some here do. This ain't no charity job. Thompson get's paid a lot of money and I expect him to live up to what he's being paid. So far, any sane rational person would be hard pressed to say we've gotten our money's worth.

1 blue chip player and one with potential (Rodgers) in 4 years? How many starters? Capable back-ups?

Lastly- how many holes on this team?

Do the math-Teddy oughtta fork back over a wad of cash to the Green Bay Packers..............
I expect a lot of out a GM and I am pleased with TT.

Compare TTs track record against just about anyone. The NYG and maybe the Colts have fared slightly better, but TT is near the best draft results of any GM over the last 4 years.

IMPACT
Greg Jennings
Aaron Rodgers
Nick Collins


STARTERS
Daryn Colledge
A.J. Hawk
Johnny Jolly
Jason Spitz
Korey Hall
Brady Poppinga
Mason Crosby

ON TEAM/Don't know yet
Josh Sitton
Jordy Nelson
Desmond Bishop
Brandon Jackson
James Jones
Justin Harrell
Jeremy Thompson
Jermichael Finley
DeShawn Wynn
Tony Moll
Will Blackmon
Matt Flynn
Mike Montgomery
Patrick Lee
Breno Giacomini
Brian Brohm
Allen Barbre
Aaron Rouse
Brett Swain

GONE
Abdul Hodge
William Whitticker
Michael Hawkins
Tyrone Culver
Marviel Underwood
Kurt Campbell
Junius Coston
Ingle Martin
David Clowney
Dave Tollefson
Craig Bragg
Cory Rodgers
Clark Harris
Terrence Murphy

And I am looking at a few of those starters and the 'don't know yet' guys and thinking there will be a few impact players moving up from those ranks.

[SnakeLH2006]

Why don't we sign Usain Bolt the young Jamaican 6'5" 200 lb. sprinter who prob. runs a 4.2 40 yard dash (the Lions tried signing him...no for real, they tried)? This would free Will Blackmon to "beast" at CB fulltime. :shock:

[Partial]

ESPN speculated that Bolt would run a 3.4 40, but I don't believe that for a second.

I think he'd probably do it about 3.8-3.9.

I'm seeing some BS like "At 40 yards of the actual Olympic 100m race, Bolt was at 4.35 or 4.36 seconds.". No way. These guys are A) coming off a blocks which they aren't at the combine (shave a tenth off), but he is the fastest 100 meter sprinter ever and crushed the record despite pulling up 15 meters early.

Aha! The above factors in reaction time which they don't use at the combine.

Still, this article references him running a 4.22. Chris Johnson ran a 4.24. I simply cannot believe that a guy like Bolt wouldn't crush Johnson.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=582

Evidently Bolt requires 50 yards or so to hit his "blow everyone away" gear, where as Asafa Powell has a much faster start. It appears as though quite a few people think he would beat Bolt in the 40.

This Madden simulation puts him at 3.94: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OGdSbWeCv8



This guy has the most logical explanation yet:
http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=5019820

"Nobody has ever run 40 yards in less than 4.0 seconds, so you can throw anything that says it has happened straight out the window.

When Usain Bolt set the world record in the 100 meters a few months ago, he ran the first 40 yards in 4.22 seconds. The fastest 40-yard start ever recorded in a sanctioned 100-meter dash is Maurice Greene's 4.18 in 1999. Those are fully automatic times, minus reaction time.

The only "electronic" 40 times in football are at the Combine, and those use a hand start, so they're not fully automatic. You'd have to add the timer's reaction time in order to compare them to fully automatic track times."

Knowing the reaction time for most runners is .17ish, you can see where the numbers are greatly decrease at the combine (but one has to also factor in reaction time to stop clock, and that would probably cancel out the start reaction time?)

I tend to believe Bolt would be the best punt returner the game has ever seen. One cut and he's gone. Nobody, not even Chris Johnson, is going to come close to catching him.

[SnakeLH2006]

ESPN speculated that Bolt would run a 3.4 40, but I don't believe that for a second.

I think he'd probably do it about 3.8-3.9.

I'm seeing some BS like "At 40 yards of the actual Olympic 100m race, Bolt was at 4.35 or 4.36 seconds.". No way. These guys are A) coming off a blocks which they aren't at the combine (shave a tenth off), but he is the fastest 100 meter sprinter ever and crushed the record despite pulling up 15 meters early.

Aha! The above factors in reaction time which they don't use at the combine.

Still, this article references him running a 4.22. Chris Johnson ran a 4.24. I simply cannot believe that a guy like Bolt wouldn't crush Johnson.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=582

Yes, Bolt is prob. the fastest human EVER as these guys just keep getting a tad faster, yet the fastest 40 time EVER recorded was by a young Deion Sanders back in 1989 at the combine where he ran 4.18 40...to think Bolt would run a 3.8 is utterly ridiculous.

They talked about it on ESPN a year ago, and they said he might do a 4.2 as he's born/bred to run 100's and 200's not 40's. Not saying he couldn't do a 4.16 or something, but he's the same height as Snake and I ran a 4.51 my junior year in HS when I was lean. Being taller is better for striding, but less advantageous for short burst ala 40 times.

There's little chance he'd be as fast/faster than Deion, but either way, it's crazy to think he's the same size as Moss, yet faster and only 23 or 24 Snakey thinks.

He's worth a tryout if his heart was into it (and could make millions if panned out vs...the piddly money he makes now)....

There was an Olympian with virtually no football experience (Michael Bates) in the 1990's that made the Panthers squad and some ProBowls as a KR. Via Wiki: "In his football career, the majority of which he played for the Carolina Panthers, he had 9110 total yards in kick returns and five kick-return touchdowns (the NFL record for kickoff return touchdowns in a career is six). In one of his best seasons, 1996, he returned 33 kicks for 998 yards - a remarkable average of 30.2 yards per return - and one kick return touchdown. Bates was selected to the NFL 1990s All-Decade Team." And that's guy who ONLY ran a 10.16 100 yard dash with no football experience with a much smaller body than Bolt.

Bolt would be a beast at WR if he knew how to play, or at least a returner. Crazy athleticism for a young 6'5" 200 lb. dude. Snake would love to see that guy return kicks...yet football is so instinctive, it's highly doubtful he'd survive the hits, or be able to run routes with zip experience...Yet crazier stuff has happened.

[Fritz]

I think Packnut's finally posted himself into irrelevance.

I nominate that Packnut be stripped of the title cerebral rat and be designated hysterical rat.

I was thinking along those lines, Bobble. "Cerebral" ain't a word I'd associate with the Nut.

[red]

"Nobody has ever run 40 yards in less than 4.0 seconds, so you can throw anything that says it has happened straight out the window.

When Usain Bolt set the world record in the 100 meters a few months ago, he ran the first 40 yards in 4.22 seconds. The fastest 40-yard start ever recorded in a sanctioned 100-meter dash is Maurice Greene's 4.18 in 1999. Those are fully automatic times, minus reaction time.

The only "electronic" 40 times in football are at the Combine, and those use a hand start, so they're not fully automatic. You'd have to add the timer's reaction time in order to compare them to fully automatic track times."

Knowing the reaction time for most runners is .17ish, you can see where the numbers are greatly decrease at the combine (but one has to also factor in reaction time to stop clock, and that would probably cancel out the start reaction time?)

I tend to believe Bolt would be the best punt returner the game has ever seen. One cut and he's gone. Nobody, not even Chris Johnson, is going to come close to catching him.

i would guess he's in the 4.2 range. his start is by far the weakest part of his race, and at best he's neck and nck with all the others for the first half of the race. most of the time he's well behind at that point, except in the olympics where he got some great starts.

coming out of the block actually makes you faster, thats why they use blocks. but that would be offset by the whole reaction time thing

the best starters in the wold might run around 4.1, but he's nowhere near one of the best starters in the world

however his size-speed ratio is second to none, if he could learn the game and catch a ball he'd be unstopable

[sharpe1027]

Straight-line speed is all well and good, but football is as much about angles and change of direction as it is about speed. Barry Sanders didn't have outstanding straight line speed, especially at the end of his career. Compare Barry to a Michael Bennett, who was crazy fast in a straight line.

[Guiness]

Combine 40 #'s have little relation to track style sprinting; or reality for that matter.

Reaction time makes all the difference in the timing.

Partial - you mentioned reaction time being evened out by the reaction time of the stop clock (but one has to also factor in reaction time to stop clock, and that would probably cancel out the start reaction time?) but I'm pretty sure the finishes are done electronically. So the runner gets the benefit of the delayed start, but the stop is immediate.

So, using a reaction time of 0.15 sec all around, a football player takes off, 0.15 seconds later the manual timer hits the start button. At the track, the gun goes of, the timer automatically starts, 0.15 seconds later the sprinter takes off. So there's 0.3 seconds difference there.

There are two other factors. As mentioned before, the blocks. I don't know how much they help. But there's also the reaction time of the manual starter. HE'S not a world class athlete. Is his reaction time 0.15? I'd guess higher, meaning the difference between combine and track is even bigger.

All you can really hope for from combine numbers is consistency in the timings. I.E. all the WR's times were started by the same guy.

[Pugger]

Red, why are you all excited about the Packers looking at this young man? What is the big deal? He won't be drafted but he might be brought back this summer as a camp body unless he goes back to college ball. I don't have a problem with it. I seriously doubt AR or any of our other QBs on the roster are in any danger of this kid wowing the offensive coaching staff. :roll:

It is funny is a queer way. TT will get blasted by some no matter WHAT he does. TT doesn't sign any FAs that are household names to use the cap on resigning guys already on the roster and folks howl. Then he brings in FAs as backups and they bitch because the FAs are backups ( :doh: ). It's getting rather old...

[HarveyWallbangers]

I don't understand the angst either. Paulus could flop. However, we are talking about Greg Paulus... national high school football player of the year. This is a guy that came out more highly regarded than the likes of Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Aaron Rodgers, etc. Sure, it's a difficult transition he's trying to make--maybe close to impossible considering he's been away from the game for four years. But why not at least check the guy out? What happens if Paulus goes to Michigan, starts, looks solid, and gets drafted next year?

[HarveyWallbangers]

What a great story. Paulus is playing pretty well in his first game in 5 years--as Syracuse is ahead of Minnesota 20-17 in the 3rd quarter. Syracuse went 3-9 last year.

[Tarlam!]

Sheez, Harv. You have one heck of a memory to dig this up.

[Fritz]

Getting back to the original idea of the thread, damn Teddy for picking through the scrap heap of undrafted free agents for guys like Obiozor and Sutton.

Why can't he be like other GM's?

[Tarlam!]

Getting back to the original idea of the thread,

:oops: Guilty

[red]

you mean that guy that just made one of the stupidest i've ever scene?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Sheez, Harv. You have one heck of a memory to dig this up.

I'm a Duke basketball fan, so I watched Paulus play (and not very well) for four years. Good kid though. He'll be a coach some day.

BTW, he choked in OT.

[HarveyWallbangers]

you mean that guy that just made one of the stupidest i've ever scene?

I'd give it up while you're behind. You sound like your bitching just to bitch. Personally, I like the fact that the GM will leave no stones unturned trying to dig up talent.

[red]

you mean that guy that just made one of the stupidest i've ever scene?

I'd give it up while you're behind. You sound like your bitching just to bitch. Personally, I like the fact that the GM will leave no stones unturned trying to dig up talent.

i'm just giving ya shit harv

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Sheez, Harv. You have one heck of a memory to dig this up.

I'm a Duke basketball fan, so I watched Paulus play (and not very well) for four years. Good kid though. He'll be a coach some day.

BTW, he choked in OT.

that explains a ton.