Mock Drafts

[HarveyWallbangers]

I don't see a thread (on the first page, anyways) that details the latest mock drafts.

Kirwin believes will take Tyson Jackson in round 1 and Connor Barwin in round 2. I think a lot of people would like those picks.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80fbe661&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true


The Packers are building a 3-4 defense, and a solid "5" technique player is a necessary building block. The Patriots built their 3-4 with first-round defensive ends, and the Packers should too.

Second round: No. 41, Connor Barwin, OLB, Cincinnati

[HarveyWallbangers]

Interesting tidbit:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80fdd012&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true


Teams mock the “mocks”

Contrary to the widely held notion that coaches and front office personnel don’t pay attention to media speculation on the draft, most teams track the various mock drafts that pop up throughout the pre-draft season. Teams believe that some of the more established draft experts are closely tied into various teams throughout the league and that the information that they use to compile the mock draft is relatively accurate.

Some teams rely on media-types to feed them information in regards to what another team may be thinking at certain picks. Though everything uttered is not believed to be true, the astute evaluator takes in all of the information gathered and makes solid predictions on what may happen at certain stages of the draft.

So, the next time you hear a general manager or scout dismiss a mock draft as pure speculation, rest assured that someone in the war room has tracked the list of predictions and is working hard to connect the dots to help the team gain an edge on draft day.

[Joemailman]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock
5 mocks here. Prisco has Pack taking Chris Wells.

Sporting News has posted their 7 Round Mock http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/draft/mock_draft

Packer Picks:http://warroom.sportingnews.com/nfl/teams/packers

[HarveyWallbangers]

Following up, those 5 mocks had us taking Wells, Tyson Jackson, Brian Orakpo (2), and Michael Oher.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Kiper's 4 round mock has us taking:

DT B.J. Raji, OT William Beatty, LB Cody Brown, FB Tony Fiammetta, LB Zack Follett

McShay has us taking Raji also.

[Lurker64]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock
5 mocks here. Prisco has Pack taking Chris Wells.

Sporting News has posted their 7 Round Mock http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/draft/mock_draft

Packer Picks:http://warroom.sportingnews.com/nfl/teams/packers

That sporting news mock has us taking Maybin in the second round? I would learn to do a backflip and then do one if that happened.

[Joemailman]

Sporting News Mocks often have a contrarian aspect to them. I do remember though that a couple of years ago they had Brady Quinn rated much lower than everyone else. No one else that I can remember thought he would slide the way he did.

[ND72]

Sporting News Mocks often have a contrarian aspect to them. I do remember though that a couple of years ago they had Brady Quinn rated much lower than everyone else. No one else that I can remember thought he would slide the way he did.

You and me both.

[rbaloha1]

I don't see a thread (on the first page, anyways) that details the latest mock drafts.

Kirwin believes will take Tyson Jackson in round 1 and Connor Barwin in round 2. I think a lot of people would like those picks.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80fbe661&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true


The Packers are building a 3-4 defense, and a solid "5" technique player is a necessary building block. The Patriots built their 3-4 with first-round defensive ends, and the Packers should too.

Second round: No. 41, Connor Barwin, OLB, Cincinnati


Both would be outstanding picks. Jackson is a high character type ready made for the 3-4.

Barwin is like Nelson -- huge upside. Watched Barwin play this season and reminds of Vrabel. Aggressive with a relentless motor. If not a starter will be a standout special teamer. Just a plain old good football player.

[Waldo]

I don't see a thread (on the first page, anyways) that details the latest mock drafts.

Kirwin believes will take Tyson Jackson in round 1 and Connor Barwin in round 2. I think a lot of people would like those picks.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80fbe661&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true


The Packers are building a 3-4 defense, and a solid "5" technique player is a necessary building block. The Patriots built their 3-4 with first-round defensive ends, and the Packers should too.

Second round: No. 41, Connor Barwin, OLB, Cincinnati


Both would be outstanding picks. Jackson is a high character type ready made for the 3-4.

Barwin is like Nelson -- huge upside. Watched Barwin play this season and reminds of Vrabel. Aggressive with a relentless motor. If not a starter will be a standout special teamer. Just a plain old good football player.

Barwin is a lot like Nelson. Jordy switched from S to WR in 2005 and led the team in receiving in his fist try. In final year in school, only his 3rd as a WR, he was #2 in the nation in receptions and yards, #2 to Michael Crabtree. He's a natural, and a very fast learner.

Barwin switched from TE to DE as a senior, and ranked #16 nationally in div 1 (FBS) in sacks per game and #11 in total sacks, was first team all conference and the most dominant defender on the team. Kid's a natural, and a very fast learner.

Plus, just like Jordy, if there was a competition for highest character guy in the draft, he'd have a good shot to win it.

[Freak Out]

I don't see a thread (on the first page, anyways) that details the latest mock drafts.

Kirwin believes will take Tyson Jackson in round 1 and Connor Barwin in round 2. I think a lot of people would like those picks.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80fbe661&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true


The Packers are building a 3-4 defense, and a solid "5" technique player is a necessary building block. The Patriots built their 3-4 with first-round defensive ends, and the Packers should too.

Second round: No. 41, Connor Barwin, OLB, Cincinnati

So is Barwin a TE or OLB? Crazy....you need players like him on your team.

[Waldo]

I don't see a thread (on the first page, anyways) that details the latest mock drafts.

Kirwin believes will take Tyson Jackson in round 1 and Connor Barwin in round 2. I think a lot of people would like those picks.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80fbe661&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true


The Packers are building a 3-4 defense, and a solid "5" technique player is a necessary building block. The Patriots built their 3-4 with first-round defensive ends, and the Packers should too.

Second round: No. 41, Connor Barwin, OLB, Cincinnati

So is Barwin a TE or OLB? Crazy....you need players like him on your team.

He's an elite prospect at both. You gotta believe that he got better at blocking by spending a year at DE. His measurables are every bit as good, if not better than Olsen's. I've said this before, he could very well be the first TE off the board this year (not every team is looking at him as a DE). Blocking keeps TE's off the field early, not catching. He's not just a "red zone TE", that is for big slow guys like Franks, guys that can run a legit 4.5 40 need safety attention, linebackers can't cover that.

Plus there is a failsafe with him. Try him at DE/OLB and it doesn't work out....you still have an elite TE prospect on your hands. Try him at TE and it doesn't work out, you still have an elite DE/OLB prospect on your hands.

He's pretty win-win.

Plus he's a kick blocking ace.

[mission]

Barwin is my favorite player in the draft. I'd love to somehow get him but it would be a big stretch I think ...

[rbaloha1]

Forget the noise about Barwin playing te. The dude is an olb. Watch video. Gil Brandt is projecting possible late first rounder.

If TT desires this guy may be forced to move up from round 2.

[Joemailman]

I don't see TT trading up from 41 to take anyone. Using this list as a point of referencehttp://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings, I see a bunch of guys in the 35-50 range that could help the Packers.

[Lurker64]

He's an elite prospect at both. You gotta believe that he got better at blocking by spending a year at DE. His measurables are every bit as good, if not better than Olsen's. I've said this before, he could very well be the first TE off the board this year (not every team is looking at him as a DE). Blocking keeps TE's off the field early, not catching. He's not just a "red zone TE", that is for big slow guys like Franks, guys that can run a legit 4.5 40 need safety attention, linebackers can't cover that.

Plus there is a failsafe with him. Try him at DE/OLB and it doesn't work out....you still have an elite TE prospect on your hands. Try him at TE and it doesn't work out, you still have an elite DE/OLB prospect on your hands.

He's pretty win-win.

Plus he's a kick blocking ace.

I'm looking forward to the team that drafts him announcing

"Connor Barwin: Defensive End, Tight End, Outside Linebacker; Cincinnati."

[Waldo]

He's an elite prospect at both. You gotta believe that he got better at blocking by spending a year at DE. His measurables are every bit as good, if not better than Olsen's. I've said this before, he could very well be the first TE off the board this year (not every team is looking at him as a DE). Blocking keeps TE's off the field early, not catching. He's not just a "red zone TE", that is for big slow guys like Franks, guys that can run a legit 4.5 40 need safety attention, linebackers can't cover that.

Plus there is a failsafe with him. Try him at DE/OLB and it doesn't work out....you still have an elite TE prospect on your hands. Try him at TE and it doesn't work out, you still have an elite DE/OLB prospect on your hands.

He's pretty win-win.

Plus he's a kick blocking ace.

I'm looking forward to the team that drafts him announcing

"Connor Barwin: Defensive End, Tight End, Outside Linebacker; Cincinnati."

Maybe they just say "Connor Barwin, athlete from the University of Cincinnati"

I would say "football player", but he played basketball there too. :lol:

[Joemailman]

Draft Tek http://www.drafttek.com/round12009.asp has a 7 round mock that also has the Packers taking Barwin. Their Packer Picks:

1. B.J. Raji/DT/Boston College
2. Connor Barwin/OLB/Cincinnati
3. Phil Loadholt/OT/Oklahoma
3. Mike Mickens/CB/Cincinnati
4. Richard Quinn/TE/North Carolina
5. Sammie Lee Hill/DL/Stillman
6. Otis Wiley/SS/Michigan St.
6. Brandon Underwood/FS/Cincinnati
7. Jeremiah Johnson/RB/Oregon

[HarveyWallbangers]

Draft Tek http://www.drafttek.com/round12009.asp has a 7 round mock that also has the Packers taking Barwin. Their Packer Picks:

1. B.J. Raji/DT/Boston College
2. Connor Barwin/OLB/Cincinnati
3. Phil Loadholt/OT/Oklahoma
3. Mike Mickens/CB/Cincinnati
4. Richard Quinn/TE/North Carolina
5. Sammie Lee Hill/DL/Stillman
6. Otis Wiley/SS/Michigan St.
6. Brandon Underwood/FS/Cincinnati
7. Jeremiah Johnson/RB/Oregon

Mickens and Hill. Nice. I'd like this draft--although the OT is said to be a late riser.

[Waldo]

3 players from little Cincinnati

Come on....

[PlantPage55]

I would lose my shit (in a good way) if we drafted both Tyson Jackson and Connor Barwin. I may even cry.

[Joemailman]

3 players from little Cincinnati

Come on....

Cincinnati won the Big East and played in the Orange Bowl. Not so little anymore.

That said, the DraftTek mock is done by a computer. Not sure that it takes into account what school players are coming from.

[Partial]

Waldo has me coming around to TyJack. I think Harv was the first one tooting his horn a few months back, right?

[Joemailman]

I think a lot of people have been interested in Jackson since Capers was hired. However, it's not until recently that he's been considered a guy you might take at 9. I think his stock has improved as people have come to the conclusion that there are not a lot of elite prospects in this draft. Jackson is seen as a very safe pick.

[PlantPage55]

I think a lot of people have been interested in Jackson since Capers was hired. However, it's not until recently that he's been considered a guy you might take at 9. I think his stock has improved as people have come to the conclusion that there are not a lot of elite prospects in this draft. Jackson is seen as a very safe pick.

Exactly. I've always liked Jackson as a prospect, but he's simply not as exciting or controversial to talk about as the rush LBs or weapons like Crabtree.

[Waldo]

I think a lot of people have been interested in Jackson since Capers was hired. However, it's not until recently that he's been considered a guy you might take at 9. I think his stock has improved as people have come to the conclusion that there are not a lot of elite prospects in this draft. Jackson is seen as a very safe pick.

It's not just that.

Jackson, like Raji, has 2 grades.

He has a 3-4 DE grade
And a 4-3 DE grade

Those grades are very different. A big run stuffing LDE isn't really all that valuable for a 4-3 team. You can get Montgomeries late. First round 4-3 DE's are graded (right or wrong) solely on their ability to get to the QB.

When you start to consider a guys ability to 2 gap the POA, read line blocking to flow to the ball, hold his ground when doubled, stack and shed, and crash a gap and maintain contain, and set up plays with his linebackers rushing and against the run, plus getting push on the QB from the inside (little need for "turning the corner" or "bend" inside), and make zone drops, that grade becomes very different. A guy can kinda suck as a 4-3 DE, just be a run stopper, but put him at 5-tech in a 3-4 and his value is totally different.

I suspect that most draftnik scouts are evaluating him as a 4-3 LDE, and not projecting him into a 3-4 at DE and applying a grade. The season he had a lot of sacks (2006)....he was a 3-4 5-tech, they switched to a 4-3 defense after that.

We are seeing that in fact at 5-tech, what 3-4 teams are rating him as, he has a VERY high grade. I've been told that he has a similar grade to Seymore, higher than K. Williams (who also was considered an ideal 5 tech out of college).

[Fritz]

Y'know Waldo, TT does seem to go back to particular schools from time to time...Louisville, for example. So grabbing more than one guy from Cinci may not be such a stretch.

Having said that, I don't see Barwin slipping to the Packer's spot in the second round.

I'd be jacked with Jackson, especially if TT can trade down a few spots and still nab him. I'd be radical with Raji. I'd be okay with Oher.

[Lurker64]

Jackson, like Raji, has 2 grades.

He has a 3-4 DE grade
And a 4-3 DE grade

With 32" arms, I wouldn't think Raji's DE grades are very good ;)

[rbaloha1]

I don't see TT trading up from 41 to take anyone. Using this list as a point of referencehttp://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings, I see a bunch of guys in the 35-50 range that could help the Packers.

This is one measure. Where was Jordy Nelson at this point pre draft?

Recall Nelson was moving up quickly which forced Nelson to make the selection earlier than projected. Barwin could be the same scenario. TT loves all around football players like Corey Hall, Jordy Nelson, etc.

[Waldo]

Jackson, like Raji, has 2 grades.

He has a 3-4 DE grade
And a 4-3 DE grade

With 32" arms, I wouldn't think Raji's DE grades are very good ;)

I was thinking more along the line of 4-3 UT or NT and 3-4 NT with Raji. Kinda different tasks, his pass rushing ability is fairly useless to a 3-4 team, as the NT comes off the field in most nickle sets. Granted it gets used on rare occasions, but run blocking skill is given much more weight by 3-4 teams.

I don't think 3-4 teams have nearly as high a grade on Raji as 4-3 teams do. He isn't nearly as good agaisnt the run as he is made out to be, Brace is a lot better. Raji is owned in 1 on 1 run blocking with a lineman far too often for comfort. The physical ability is there, but he's a bit of a project at 3-4 NT, nobody knows if he has the mental fortitude for it.

[Lurker64]

Jackson, like Raji, has 2 grades.

He has a 3-4 DE grade
And a 4-3 DE grade

With 32" arms, I wouldn't think Raji's DE grades are very good ;)

I was thinking more along the line of 4-3 UT or NT and 3-4 NT with Raji. Kinda different tasks, his pass rushing ability is fairly useless to a 3-4 team, as the NT comes off the field in most nickle sets. Granted it gets used on rare occasions, but run blocking skill is given much more weight by 3-4 teams.

I don't think 3-4 teams have nearly as high a grade on Raji as 4-3 teams do. He isn't nearly as good agaisnt the run as he is made out to be, Brace is a lot better. Raji is owned in 1 on 1 run blocking with a lineman far too often for comfort. The physical ability is there, but he's a bit of a project at 3-4 NT, nobody knows if he has the mental fortitude for it.

Yeah, that was why I ;)ed. I knew you meant "Jackson, like Raji, receives two different grades: one for the position he would play in a 3-4 look, and one for the position he would play in a 4-3 look". It's just that it was phrased in such a way that it made it look like teams were evaluating Raji as an end, which is a funny thought.

[Partial]

I think a lot of people have been interested in Jackson since Capers was hired. However, it's not until recently that he's been considered a guy you might take at 9. I think his stock has improved as people have come to the conclusion that there are not a lot of elite prospects in this draft. Jackson is seen as a very safe pick.

It's not just that.

Jackson, like Raji, has 2 grades.

He has a 3-4 DE grade
And a 4-3 DE grade

Those grades are very different. A big run stuffing LDE isn't really all that valuable for a 4-3 team. You can get Montgomeries late. First round 4-3 DE's are graded (right or wrong) solely on their ability to get to the QB.

When you start to consider a guys ability to 2 gap the POA, read line blocking to flow to the ball, hold his ground when doubled, stack and shed, and crash a gap and maintain contain, and set up plays with his linebackers rushing and against the run, plus getting push on the QB from the inside (little need for "turning the corner" or "bend" inside), and make zone drops, that grade becomes very different. A guy can kinda suck as a 4-3 DE, just be a run stopper, but put him at 5-tech in a 3-4 and his value is totally different.

I suspect that most draftnik scouts are evaluating him as a 4-3 LDE, and not projecting him into a 3-4 at DE and applying a grade. The season he had a lot of sacks (2006)....he was a 3-4 5-tech, they switched to a 4-3 defense after that.

We are seeing that in fact at 5-tech, what 3-4 teams are rating him as, he has a VERY high grade. I've been told that he has a similar grade to Seymore, higher than K. Williams (who also was considered an ideal 5 tech out of college).

How did KWill rate as a DT? i'm getting excited about the prospect of TyJack if this is all true.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Waldo has me coming around to TyJack. I think Harv was the first one tooting his horn a few months back, right?

No, I can't claim that. The only thing I noticed was that he was a DE for the 3-4. Other than that, I didn't have much of an opinion on him.

I like him though. Strange draft. I haven't fallen in love with anybody. There are guys I like better than others (Jackson, Raji, top two OTs, Crabtree, Curry, even Jenkins) and others that I don't want (Oher, Brown, Smith)--but mostly I'm indifferent on these guys.

[Bretsky]

I'd be jacked with Jackson, especially if TT can trade down a few spots and still nab him. I'd be radical with Raji. I'd be okay with Oher.


You seem to have joined the mob mentality in here :lol:

[Partial]

Waldo has me coming around to TyJack. I think Harv was the first one tooting his horn a few months back, right?

No, I can't claim that. The only thing I noticed was that he was a DE for the 3-4. Other than that, I didn't have much of an opinion on him.

I like him though. Strange draft. I haven't fallen in love with anybody. There are guys I like better than others (Jackson, Raji, top two OTs, Crabtree, Curry, even Jenkins) and others that I don't want (Oher, Brown, Smith)--but mostly I'm indifferent on these guys.

The only guy I think is a for-sure star in Crabtree. The other guys I'm kind of 'eh' about. would be fired up for Orakpo.

I think Curry drops like a rock right past us. I've actually thought this for awhile. That's way too high to draft a SLB.

I like Jenkins too. He might be my 3rd favorite defensive guy behind the newly hyped TyJack and then Orakpo.

[Lurker64]

[quote="Waldo"]We are seeing that in fact at 5-tech, what 3-4 teams are rating him as, he has a VERY high grade. I've been told that he has a similar grade to Seymore, higher than K. Williams (who also was considered an ideal 5 tech out of college).[/quote

Here's the thing that worries me about Tyson Jackson, what is it that convinces me that Jackson won't totally fizzle and become average like Marcus Spears, a player I'm seeing Jackson get compared to quite frequently. Now certainly Jackson isn't Spears anymore than Everette Brown is Jamal Reynolds, but all of the Cowboys fans I know are really, really down on Jackson claiming that they've seen this all before with Spears and that whoever takes Jackson is going to be really disappointed.

How am I sure that they're wrong?

[Waldo]

We are seeing that in fact at 5-tech, what 3-4 teams are rating him as, he has a VERY high grade. I've been told that he has a similar grade to Seymore, higher than K. Williams (who also was considered an ideal 5 tech out of college).

Here's the thing that worries me about Tyson Jackson, what is it that convinces me that Jackson won't totally fizzle and become average like Marcus Spears, a player I'm seeing Jackson get compared to quite frequently. Now certainly Jackson isn't Spears anymore than Everette Brown is Jamal Reynolds, but all of the Cowboys fans I know are really, really down on Jackson claiming that they've seen this all before with Spears and that whoever takes Jackson is going to be really disappointed.

How am I sure that they're wrong?

Spears is slow.

I have all of the workout #'s for virtually every defensive front 7 player taken since 2002, plus a few before, in a big huge spreadsheet. I divided guys height by weight (unit weight), plotted that as the X value vs. their 40 and 10, and found the trendline of best fit, basically average NFL speed. I then calculate the % that each player's 10 and 40 deviate from NFL average (the equation for that trendline gives expected 10 and 40 for their ht/wt combo) (positive or negative) and average the two numbers together.

It is actually quite shocking how incredibly good at predicting success that simple formula is; a player's height, weight, 40 and 10 yd split (lacking a 10 I just use the 40 and don't average them) is all you need. Don't pick guys with negative speed averages and well over 70% of the healthy defensive front 7 busts in recent years could be avoided.

Slow guys don't make good football players.

Spears is slow for his ht/wt combo. Rarely do players below average speed for their ht/wt amount to anything. Jackson is above average for his ht/wt combo. That # is the only measurable that I've found that correlates to success at the position. IMO Jackson has the measurables to be elite at 3-4 DE, Spears does not.

As a sidenote, just like Igor, Gilbert's 10 yd split is pretty bad for his ht/wt combo (below average), that doesn't bode well for him being anything more than average. If one of the two numbers is going to be below average, it is always better for the 40 to be blow average and 10 be above average. Guys with slow 10 yd splits typically don't amount to much more than JAG's.

[Lurker64]

Very interesting stuff Waldo, if it's not too much trouble, could you fish up the numbers on Spears vs. Jackson and post them here? It probably wouldn't be terribly hard for me to get these myself, but it's easier to ask and sometimes finding the accurate weights for guys when they were drafted is hard to do three years later.

Alternatively, can you just confirm the numbers I've found?

Spears
40: 5.03
Height: 6.33
Weight: 307

Jackson
40: 4.94
Height: 6.33
Weight: 296

Are these accurate? Do you have the 10 yard splits handy?

[Waldo]

I don't hav a 10 for Spears, but Jackson's 10 was 1.68, same as K. Will's.

I use

% deviation from expected 40 = (1-40 time/(0.0397*(weight/height)+3.092))*100

% deviation from expected 10 = (1-10 time/(0.0114*(weight/height)+1.1785))*100

Then average them together (plus look at them individually)

For Spears:
40 dev = -0.90
(not expecting big things out of a number like that, I'm surprised that he's even starting)

For Jackson:
40 dev = 0.09
10 dev = 1.78
avg = 0.93
(good enough that speed isn't an issue)

When both numbers are positive, good things happen, it weeds out a good % of the busts in the league, much more than it weeds out good players.

I have 12 4-3 DT's over that time frame with a negative average and negative 10 yd split. 1 is a starter (Domata Peko), 6 are backups, 5 are busts. I found 2 other healthy busts over the same time frame that had positive times, Donnell Washington and Johnathan Lewis. Don't take slow big guys. It holds true at NT and 3-4 DE too (LB and DE isn't really any different either). Kris Jenkins is the trend breaker, the only slow NT/DT that I've found that has become an elite player.

[Lurker64]

Neat stuff, Waldo. How does Jackson compare to, say, Richard Seymour in terms of "fancy tricks you can play with Excel"?

[packrulz]

I think Jackson would be a reach at #9, he only did 20 reps of 225lbs on the bench press, http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=33165&draftyear=2009&genpos=DE
He reminds me a lot of Colin Cole, who TT let go. I just think there are better players than him at #9, I'm kind of surprised he's even being considered in the first round, he only had 4.5 sacks last year. I'd rather have TT draft Aaron Maybin or Everette Brown.

[Waldo]

Neat stuff, Waldo. How does Jackson compare to, say, Richard Seymour in terms of "fancy tricks you can play with Excel"?

About the same.

Basically that it isn't anything athletic that is going to prevent him from being a good one.

[Fritz]

Waldo needs to be getting paid by the Packers for his work if he isn't already...

[HarveyWallbangers]

Any chance that Raji could play DE in a 3-4, if we draft him and can't find a complement for Jenkins outside?

[Waldo]

He's slow (relative to other 3-4 DE's), very short, and very short armed for the position.

Not liking his chances to even be marginally useful there.

Starting 3-4 DE's tend to be about 6'5", 300lb, 35" arms, and run sub 5.0 in the 40.

Raji has very good speed for his size, but he's so big, were he the typical 3-4 DE size, he'd be really slow.

[Packnut]

The classic mistake many make when it comes to stats and the draft is that they don't take the time to dig a little deeper.

For example, when you look at a college player the first thing you should look at is his ability to stay healthy. Why? Justin Harrell-nuff said. If the guy can't stayon thefield, he's useless no matter how much talent he has.

Then you wanna see some consistency in his junior and senior year. Why? The league is filled with one season wonders who eventually fade away.

Next is look at how this guy preforms in big games. I don't give a rat's ass what you do against Appalachian ST and Troy. I wanna know how you do against Bama, Florida, South Carolina ect.

Bench press stats? Give me a freakin break. Plenty of NFL back-ups with outstanding reps in the gym. Means nothing.

The last thing you look for is character. How do you determine character? You talk to the coaches and team mates. If you find a guy that is a leader, chances are your gonna have a guy to go to war with.

Let's take a look at Tyson Jackson and apply the above. The man does'nt miss games period. Now we all know you cannot play this game without getting hurt some how some way. Jackson plays through it. It means the guy has heart.

His junior and senior year were mirror images of each other. Jackson has shown consistency.

Against Florida which was a HUGE HUGE game. I mean in college ball, LSU/Florida is a MONSTER. 3 solo tackles and 2 sacks. 2 sacks against South Carolina. 3 assists against Bama and the list goes on. Hell, how many games did we have where our DE opposite Kampman had NOTHING? In every big game this guy has at least had a tackle or an assist. He does'nt get shut out and he's going against good players.

Character? His coaches and fellow players rave about him. He was the undisputed leader of the Tiger D.

Now I hear those who claim he's a reach at 9. This is one of those NFL BS ideas that really piss me off. If the guy you pick fills a need and you think he's talented, what difference does it make if you take him at 9 or 16? If your right on him, it won't matter.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Todd McShay of ESPN has the Viking taking Darrius Heyward-Bey with their first round pick. I thought that was funny because NFL Draft Countdown gives Heyward-Bey this comparison:


Darrius Heyward-Bey - Troy Williamson

http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/Prospect-Comparisons.php

BTW, McShay now has us taking these guys:

1 OT Andre Smith
2 LB Connor Barwin
3 CB Jairus Byrd
3 TE James Casey
4 DE Kyle Moore
5 SS David Bruton
6 LB Worrell Williams
6 OT Ramon Foster
7 CB Brandon Hughes

[HarveyWallbangers]

McShay has us taking two shorter corners and a big OT whose weakness is said to be his agility and lateral movement.
:D

Barwin and Casey seem like good fits though.

[digitaldean]

Though I do like the first 2 to 3 rounds being mocked, the 7 round mock draft is an exercise in futility.

It's hard enough figuring out the first, let alone 6 others where there are trades galore, which affect which player you may get.

I can handle just about anybody in the first round mocks except:
Andre Smith (too much baggage)
Malcolm Jenkins (lack of speed)

[Joemailman]

Figures this would be a good place to post this...

National Football Post has issued their Draft Value Chart. They place players in ten tiers, ranging from Elite to Intriguing Late round Prospects.
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/04/nfp-draft-value-chart-2/

Tier One (Elite Talents)



WR Michael Crabtree, Texas Tech (6-2, 215)

OT Eugene Monroe, Virginia (6-5, 309)

OT Jason Smith, Baylor (6-5, 309)

DT B.J. Raji, Boston College (6-2, 337)



Tier Two (High First-Round Talents)



QB Mark Sanchez, USC (6-2, 227)

RB Knowshon Moreno, Georgia (5-11, 217)

WR Jeremy Maclin, Missouri (6-0, 198)

OT Andre Smith, Alabama (6-4, 332)

OT Michael Oher, Mississippi (6-5, 309)

OLB Aaron Curry, Wake Forest (6-2, 254)

DE/OLB Aaron Maybin, Penn State (6-4, 249)

DE Robert Ayers, Tennessee (6-3, 272)



Tier Three (First-Round Talents)



QB Matthew Stafford, Georgia (6-2, 225)

RB Chris Wells, Ohio State (6-1, 235)

WR Hakeem Nicks, North Carolina (6-1, 212)

TE Shawn Nelson, Southern Miss (6-5, 240)

TE Brandon Pettigrew, Oklahoma State (6-6, 263)

OT William Beatty, Connecticut (6-6, 307)

OT Eben Britton, Arizona (6-6, 309)

DE/OLB Everette Brown, Florida State (6-2, 274)

DE/OLB Clay Matthews, USC (6-3, 240)

DE/OLB Connor Barwin, Cincinnati (6-4, 256)

DE/OLB Brian Orakpo, Texas (6-3, 263)

DE Tyson Jackson, LSU (6-4, 296)

DE Michael Johnson, Georgia Tech (6-7, 266)

DT Jarron Gilbert, San Jose State (6-5, 288)

DT Peria Jerry, Mississippi (6-2, 299)

DT Evander Hood, Missouri (6-3, 300)

CB Sean Smith, Utah (6-3, 214)

CB Malcolm Jenkins, Ohio State (6-0, 204)

CB D.J. Moore, Vanderbilt (5-10, 192)

CB Darius Butler, Connecticut (5-11, 183)



Tier Four (First/Second-Round Talents)



RB Shonn Greene, Iowa (5-11, 227)

WR Percy Harvin, Florida (5-11, 192)

WR Kenny Britt, Rutgers (6-3, 218)

WR Darrius Heyward-Bey, Maryland (6-2, 210)

C Alex Mack, California (6-4, 307)

C Max Unger, Oregon (6-5, 309)

DE/OLB Larry English, Northern Illinois (6-2, 274)

ILB Rey Maualuga, USC (6-2, 249)

ILB James Laurinaitis, Ohio State (6-2, 244)

ILB/OLB Brian Cushing, USC (6-3, 243)

CB Alphonso Smith, Wake Forest (5-9, 193)

FS/CB Sherrod Martin, Troy (6-1, 198)



Tier Five (Second-Round Talents)



QB Pat White, West Virginia (6-0, 197)

RB Andre Brown, N.C. State (6-0, 224)

RB Donald Brown, Connecticut (5-10, 210)

RB LeSean McCoy, Pittsburgh (5-11, 204)

WR Juaquin Iglesias, Oklahoma (6-1, 210)

TE Jared Cook, South Carolina (6-5, 246)

OT Phil Loadholt, Oklahoma (6-8, 332)

OT Fenuki Tupou, Oregon (6-6, 314)

OT Jamon Meredith, South Carolina (6-5, 304)

OG Duke Robinson, Oklahoma (6-5, 329)

C Eric Wood, Louisville (6-4, 310)

DE/OLB Lawrence Sidbury Jr., Richmond (6-3, 266)

DT Sen’Derrick Marks, Auburn (6-1, 301)

CB Vontae Davis, Illinois (5-11, 203)

CB Kevin Barnes, Maryland (6-0, 187)

FS Darcel McBath, Texas Tech (6-0, 198)

FS Louis Delmas, Western Michigan (6-0, 202)

SS William Moore, Missouri (6-0, 221)

SS Chip Vaughn, Wake Forest (6-2, 221)



Tier Six (Second/Third-Round Talents)



WR Brian Robiskie, Ohio State (6-3, 209)

WR Mike Thomas, Arizona (5-8, 195)

WR Derrick Williams, Penn State (6-0, 194)

WR Brandon Tate, North Carolina (6-0, 193)

OT Joel Bell, Furman (6-7, 315)

OG Herman Johnson, LSU (6-7, 356)

OG Andy Levitre, Oregon State (6-3, 305)

OG T.J. Lang, Eastern Michigan (6-4, 316)

C Antoine Caldwell, Alabama (6-3, 309)

DE/OLB David Veikune, Hawaii (6-3, 257)

OLB/ILB Clint Sintim, Virginia (6-3, 256)

DE Kyle Moore, USC (6-5, 272)

DT Dorell Scott, Clemson (6-3, 312)

DT Ron Brace, Boston College (6-3, 330)

OLB Marcus Freeman, Ohio State (6-1, 239)

OLB Kaluka Maiava, USC (6-0, 229)

ILB Frantz Joseph, Florida Atlantic (6-1, 242)

ILB Jasper Brinkley, South Carolina (6-2, 252)

CB Jairus Byrd, Oregon (5-10, 207)

CB Asher Allen, Georgia (5-10, 194)

CB Coye Francies, San Jose State (6-1, 185)



Tier Seven (Third-Round Talents)



QB Josh Freeman, Kansas State (6-6, 248)

QB Stephen McGee, Texas A&M (6-3, 225)

RB Rashad Jennings, Liberty (6-1, 231)

WR Mike Wallace, Mississippi (6-1, 199)

WR Mohamed Massaquoi, Georgia (6-2, 210)

TE James Casey, Rice (6-3, 246)

TE Chase Coffman, Missouri (6-6, 244)

OT Xavier Fulton, Illinois (6-4, 302)

OT Gerald Cadogan, Penn State (6-5, 309)

OG Tyronne Green, Auburn (6-2, 309)

C Jonathan Luigs, Arkansas (6-4, 301)

DE Paul Kruger, Utah (6-4, 263)

DT Mitch King, Iowa (6-2, 280)

DT Fili Moala, USC (6-4, 305)

DT Alex Magee, Purdue (6-3, 298)

OLB Jason Williams, Western Illinois (6-1, 241)

CB Joe Burnett, Central Florida (5-10, 182)

CB Victor Harris, Virginia Tech (5-11, 198)

CB Gregory Toler, St Paul’s (5-11, 191)

CB Christopher Owens, San Jose State (5-10, 181)

FS Rashad Johnson, Alabama (5-11, 203)

SS Patrick Chung, Oregon (5-11, 212)



Tier Eight (Third/Fourth-Round Talents)



RB Glen Coffee, Alabama (6-0, 209)

RB Mike Goodson, Texas A&M (6-0, 208)

WR Kenny McKinley, South Carolina (6-1, 180)

TE Travis Beckum, Wisconsin (6-3, 239)

TE Cornelius Ingram, Florida (6-4, 245)

TE Richard Quinn, North Carolina (6-4, 264)

OT Andrew Gardner, Georgia Tech (6-7, 304)

OT Augustus Parrish, Kent State (6-4, 303)

OG Trevor Canfield, Cincinnati (6-5, 307)

OG Cornelius Lewis, Tennessee State (6-4, 332)

OG Kraig Urbik, Wisconsin (6-5 328)

DT Chris Baker, Hampton (6-2, 326)

DT Roy Miller, Texas (6-1, 310)

OLB Tyrone McKenzie, South Florida (6-2, 243)

OLB Lee Robinson, Alcorn State (6-2, 249)

ILB Darry Beckwith, LSU (6-1, 234)

ILB Scott McKillop, Pittsburgh (6-1, 244)

ILB Dannell Ellerbe, Georgia (6-1, 236)

CB Keenan Lewis, Oregon State (6-1, 195)

CB Bradley Fletcher, Iowa (6-1, 196)

CB Mike Mickens, Cincinnati (6-0, 186)

FS Chris Clemons, Clemson (6-0, 208)



Tier Nine (Fourth-Round Talents)



QB Graham Harrell, Texas Tech (6-2, 223)

QB Rhett Bomar, Sam Houston State (6-2, 213)

QB John Parker Wilson, Alabama (6-2, 219)

RB Javon Ringer, Michigan State (5-9, 205)

RB Jeremiah Johnson, Oregon (5-9, 209)

RB Cedric Peerman, Virginia (5-10, 216)

WR Patrick Turner, USC (6-5, 223)

TE Cameron Morrah, California (6-4, 244)

OT Lydon Murtha, Nebraska (6-7, 306)

OG Brandon Walker, Oklahoma (6-3, 306)

OG Seth Olsen, Iowa (6-5, 306)

OG Jaimie Thomas, Maryland (6-4, 323)

C A.Q. Shipley, Penn State (6-1, 304)

C Cecil Newton, Tennessee State (6-2, 300)

C Edwin Williams, Maryland (6-2, 308)

DE/OLB Cody Brown, Connecticut (6-2, 244)

DE Zach Potter, Nebraska (6-7, 279)

DE Everette Pedescleaux, Northern Iowa (6-6, 305)

OLB Zack Follett, California (6-2, 236)

OLB Kevin Ellison, USC (6-1, 227)

ILB Antonio Appleby, Virginia (6-4, 243)

ILB Gerald McRath, Southern Miss (6-3, 231)

ILB Jason Phillips, TCU (6-1, 239)

CB Brice McCain, Utah (5-9, 185)

CB Bruce Johnson, Miami (5-10, 170)

FS Derek Pegues, Mississippi State (5-10, 199)

SS Emanuel Cook, South Carolina (5-10, 197)



Tier Ten (Intriguing Later-Round Talents)



QB Curtis Painter, Purdue (6-3, 225)

QB David Johnson, Tulsa (6-2 219)

RB James Davis, Clemson (5-11, 218)

RB Kory Sheets, Purdue (5-11, 208)

FB Quinn Johnson, LSU (6-1, 246)

FB Conredge Collins, Pittsburgh (5-11, 224)

TE Anthony Hill, N.C. State (6-5, 262)

C Rob Bruggeman, Iowa (6-4, 293)

C Alex Fletcher, Stanford (6-2, 297)

C Blake Schlueter, TCU (6-3, 290)

DT Sammie Lee Hill, Stillman (6-4, 329)

OLB Stephen Hodge, TCU (6-0, 234)

ILB Mortty Ivy, West Virginia (6-2, 248)

CB Ladarius Webb, Nicholls State (5-10, 179)

FS Brandon Underwood, Cincinnati (6-1, 198)

[Partial]

Wow, surprised to see Maybin that high (without Rack up there), and also Sanchez ahead of Stafford (though I'm hearing on Fox sports radio that some teams like him more, including Seattle and Washington).

[Lurker64]

Round 1-2 talent is way, way overvaluing Shonn Greene. He's a steal in the fourth, and should probably go around round 3 IMO.

[packrulz]

The classic mistake many make when it comes to stats and the draft is that they don't take the time to dig a little deeper.

For example, when you look at a college player the first thing you should look at is his ability to stay healthy. Why? Justin Harrell-nuff said. If the guy can't stayon thefield, he's useless no matter how much talent he has.

Then you wanna see some consistency in his junior and senior year. Why? The league is filled with one season wonders who eventually fade away.

Next is look at how this guy preforms in big games. I don't give a rat's ass what you do against Appalachian ST and Troy. I wanna know how you do against Bama, Florida, South Carolina ect.

Bench press stats? Give me a freakin break. Plenty of NFL back-ups with outstanding reps in the gym. Means nothing.

The last thing you look for is character. How do you determine character? You talk to the coaches and team mates. If you find a guy that is a leader, chances are your gonna have a guy to go to war with.

Let's take a look at Tyson Jackson and apply the above. The man does'nt miss games period. Now we all know you cannot play this game without getting hurt some how some way. Jackson plays through it. It means the guy has heart.

His junior and senior year were mirror images of each other. Jackson has shown consistency.

Against Florida which was a HUGE HUGE game. I mean in college ball, LSU/Florida is a MONSTER. 3 solo tackles and 2 sacks. 2 sacks against South Carolina. 3 assists against Bama and the list goes on. Hell, how many games did we have where our DE opposite Kampman had NOTHING? In every big game this guy has at least had a tackle or an assist. He does'nt get shut out and he's going against good players.

Character? His coaches and fellow players rave about him. He was the undisputed leader of the Tiger D.

Now I hear those who claim he's a reach at 9. This is one of those NFL BS ideas that really piss me off. If the guy you pick fills a need and you think he's talented, what difference does it make if you take him at 9 or 16? If your right on him, it won't matter.
Jackson is ok, I just don't think he's top 10 material. I look at a guy's college career and I see Tyson only had 4.5 sacks his senior year, and the only year he had more sacks he was playing next to Glenn Dorsey. Then I look at height, weight, speed, strength, (combine results), and I see he can only bench press 225lbs 20 times. If it means nothing then why do they spend all that money to conduct the combines? We're talking about a Top 10 pick here. Tyson would have Jenkins, Jolly, Harrell, & Malone ahead of him at DE, is he better than them?

[Packnut]

The classic mistake many make when it comes to stats and the draft is that they don't take the time to dig a little deeper.

For example, when you look at a college player the first thing you should look at is his ability to stay healthy. Why? Justin Harrell-nuff said. If the guy can't stayon thefield, he's useless no matter how much talent he has.

Then you wanna see some consistency in his junior and senior year. Why? The league is filled with one season wonders who eventually fade away.

Next is look at how this guy preforms in big games. I don't give a rat's ass what you do against Appalachian ST and Troy. I wanna know how you do against Bama, Florida, South Carolina ect.

Bench press stats? Give me a freakin break. Plenty of NFL back-ups with outstanding reps in the gym. Means nothing.

The last thing you look for is character. How do you determine character? You talk to the coaches and team mates. If you find a guy that is a leader, chances are your gonna have a guy to go to war with.

Let's take a look at Tyson Jackson and apply the above. The man does'nt miss games period. Now we all know you cannot play this game without getting hurt some how some way. Jackson plays through it. It means the guy has heart.

His junior and senior year were mirror images of each other. Jackson has shown consistency.

Against Florida which was a HUGE HUGE game. I mean in college ball, LSU/Florida is a MONSTER. 3 solo tackles and 2 sacks. 2 sacks against South Carolina. 3 assists against Bama and the list goes on. Hell, how many games did we have where our DE opposite Kampman had NOTHING? In every big game this guy has at least had a tackle or an assist. He does'nt get shut out and he's going against good players.

Character? His coaches and fellow players rave about him. He was the undisputed leader of the Tiger D.

Now I hear those who claim he's a reach at 9. This is one of those NFL BS ideas that really piss me off. If the guy you pick fills a need and you think he's talented, what difference does it make if you take him at 9 or 16? If your right on him, it won't matter.
Jackson is ok, I just don't think he's top 10 material. I look at a guy's college career and I see Tyson only had 4.5 sacks his senior year, and the only year he had more sacks he was playing next to Glenn Dorsey. Then I look at height, weight, speed, strength, (combine results), and I see he can only bench press 225lbs 20 times. If it means nothing then why do they spend all that money to conduct the combines? We're talking about a Top 10 pick here. Tyson would have Jenkins, Jolly, Harrell, & Malone ahead of him at DE, is he better than them?

This is a perfect example of the need to dig deeper. Jackson is NOT a rushing DE. The whole theory behind the 3-4 is for the DE to take on blockers so that your LB can rush the QB.

Jackson can do that. It's what he's good at. This is an example of a player fitting the scheme.

[PlantPage55]

Jackson is ok, I just don't think he's top 10 material. I look at a guy's college career and I see Tyson only had 4.5 sacks his senior year, and the only year he had more sacks he was playing next to Glenn Dorsey.

I just posted this exact response to a different statement, but:

Why are you not looking at this from the position of a 3-4 defense?

[sheepshead]

Personally, I think if Orakpo and Raji are not there at 9, TT is going to want to move down a few spots for very little compensation and take Wells or Moreno. If he cant move he'll take Wells at 9 if those two guys are gone. (and if Wells is there obviously)My 2 cents.

[Packnut]

ESPN just did their mock and they have us taking Smith. No doubt the guy is talented but he has MAJOR maturity issues. He's a high risk/high reward type guy.

I still believe Jackson is a need pick that could contribute now, but I have to admit, the potential of one Mr Smith does peak my interest........ :?

[sheepshead]

...

[packrulz]

Jackson is ok, I just don't think he's top 10 material. I look at a guy's college career and I see Tyson only had 4.5 sacks his senior year, and the only year he had more sacks he was playing next to Glenn Dorsey.

I just posted this exact response to a different statement, but:

Why are you not looking at this from the position of a 3-4 defense?
Because Tyson played on a 4-3 defense, he was supposed to get sacks too. I want a player who is exceptional at #9 overall, not just a guy who "fills a need", I want the best player available regardless of "need". For the record, I don't want Raji at #9 either, he's short, his arms are short, he's fat, and slow, there's going to be better options at #9.

[Lurker64]

Because Tyson played on a 4-3 defense, he was supposed to get sacks too.

Wait, so you're saying that a player should be discounted as a potential impact player in the 3-4, if he was mediocre in the 4-3? I don't see how that makes sense. There are quite a few defensive ends and outside linebackers in the 3-4 who would be poor in the 4-3 but do very well in their system.

[packrulz]

Because Tyson played on a 4-3 defense, he was supposed to get sacks too.

Wait, so you're saying that a player should be discounted as a potential impact player in the 3-4, if he was mediocre in the 4-3? I don't see how that makes sense. There are quite a few defensive ends and outside linebackers in the 3-4 who would be poor in the 4-3 but do very well in their system.
Pretty much, if he was mediocre in the 4-3 would you draft him at #9 overall and hope he's good in the 3-4? I wouldn't. Look at Cory Williams, he was a good 4-3 DE and the Browns signed him for a 3-4 DE and he blew chunks. From another thread:

"Williams made his mark with Green Bay as a 4-3 tackle, but struggled badly in his first season as a 3-4 end. The new Browns regime is hoping his disappointing 2008 was simply the result of trying to play through a painful shoulder injury. Williams had 50 tackles, but only 0.5 sacks.

Source: Canton Repository "

[Lurker64]

Except that Tyson Jackson did play in the 3-4 his (redshirt) sophomore year, recording 10 TFL and 8.5 sacks from the 5-technique DE position. His junior year, LSU abandoned the 3-4 and his production dropped off dramatically.

[packrulz]

Except that Tyson Jackson did play in the 3-4 his (redshirt) sophomore year, recording 10 TFL and 8.5 sacks from the 5-technique DE position. His junior year, LSU abandoned the 3-4 and his production dropped off dramatically.
I did not know that, but I still have to wonder if his production dropped off because LSU went to a 4-3 def or because Glenn Dorsey graduated and went to the NFL. I'm not saying he's a bad player, I just think there are better options at #9.

[Lurker64]

Except that Tyson Jackson did play in the 3-4 his (redshirt) sophomore year, recording 10 TFL and 8.5 sacks from the 5-technique DE position. His junior year, LSU abandoned the 3-4 and his production dropped off dramatically.
I did not know that, but I still have to wonder if his production dropped off because LSU went to a 4-3 def or because Glenn Dorsey graduated and went to the NFL. I'm not saying he's a bad player, I just think there are better options at #9.

Glen Dorsey's last year at LSU was Tyson Jackson's junior year at LSU.

[packrulz]

That may be, but Kiper and McShay both think that Tyson will be drafted 12th by the Broncos, for whatever that is worth.

[Packnut]

Except that Tyson Jackson did play in the 3-4 his (redshirt) sophomore year, recording 10 TFL and 8.5 sacks from the 5-technique DE position. His junior year, LSU abandoned the 3-4 and his production dropped off dramatically.
I did not know that, but I still have to wonder if his production dropped off because LSU went to a 4-3 def or because Glenn Dorsey graduated and went to the NFL. I'm not saying he's a bad player, I just think there are better options at #9.

Well, it depends on your definition of "better options". Are there more guys with better potential and talent? May-be. But the real question here is are there any safer picks and that answer is HELL NO!

At worst, Jackson will be an average guy, but he won't be a bust based on all the things I stated about him earlier.

After Harrell, we can't afford another bust. Teddy is out of mulligans.

[Packnut]

That may be, but Kiper and McShay both think that Tyson will be drafted 12th by the Broncos, for whatever that is worth.

They also claim he'll be perfect in a 3-4 defense.

[HarveyWallbangers]

After Harrell, we can't afford another bust. Teddy is out of mulligans.

Ron Wolf proved you can have a bunch of mulligans in the first round, if you make up for it with overall good drafts.

[packrulz]

Except that Tyson Jackson did play in the 3-4 his (redshirt) sophomore year, recording 10 TFL and 8.5 sacks from the 5-technique DE position. His junior year, LSU abandoned the 3-4 and his production dropped off dramatically.
I did not know that, but I still have to wonder if his production dropped off because LSU went to a 4-3 def or because Glenn Dorsey graduated and went to the NFL. I'm not saying he's a bad player, I just think there are better options at #9.

Well, it depends on your definition of "better options". Are there more guys with better potential and talent? May-be. But the real question here is are there any safer picks and that answer is HELL NO!

At worst, Jackson will be an average guy, but he won't be a bust based on all the things I stated about him earlier.

After Harrell, we can't afford another bust. Teddy is out of mulligans.
I didn't know Harrell was a bust already.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Jamie Dukes isn't that good on the NFL Network, and he's an even worse at mock drafts.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80fb153b&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

He has the Packers reaching to take Everette Brown at #9, but has Jeremy Maclin dropping to the Vikings at #22. It's more likely, you'll be able to flip their draft positions and come closer to what will actually happen. I guess we'll see.