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Bretsky
07-13-2006, 11:10 PM
Harris might hold out, but do you care?
Posted: July 13, 2006


Rick Braun
E-MAIL

Green Bay - As we wait another two weeks until training camp opens, we once again get to play that guessing game.

"Will (Fill in name) be there for the first day of camp?"

This year's "Fill in name" is Al Harris.

So will the unhappy cornerback be where he's supposed to be? Will he be on Clark Hinkle Field for the first workout? Will he show up for his physical? Will he be at the first meeting?

These questions grip the Packer Nation again.

In 2004 it was Mike McKenzie.

In 2005 it was Javon Walker.

In 2006 it's Harris.

And we're left here with all these questions.

And I've decided the answer is pretty simple.

The answer is . . . I simply don't give a darn any more.

Three consecutive years of petulance, and I've pretty much had it.

Show up if you feel like it Al, don't show up if you don't feel like it. I couldn't care less.

You're unhappy, I hear, because your contract doesn't quite match up to those of Aaron Kampman and Charles Woodson.

Tough.

You seemed pretty happy when you signed it back in 2004.

Judging by your appearance on "MTV Cribs," you're obviously not wondering where your next meal is coming from or living in squalor.

So somebody makes more money than you. Big deal. Call me when you have a real problem.

Call me when you can't afford food for the family.

Call me when the price of a tank of gas means you're only getting a quarter of a tank at a time.

But don't go into a snit because someone else got a better contract than the one you yourself were only so happy to sign two years ago.

The McKenzie snit ruined 2004 for the Packers. Remember that team, Al? It was the one that just missed going to the NFC championship game a year earlier. The team that Brett Favre pretty much said Super Bowl or bust about.

Did you like having a chance at the Super Bowl wrecked by a crybaby?

How about the 2005 team?

Walker skipped all of the off-season programs and camps but showed up for training camp. Then, in a most-unfortunate occurrence he got hurt. Of course that all became management's fault and Walker got his wish and an under-valued ticket out of town.

The only good part about all of that was he at least got rid of Drew Rosenhaus before he got his money from the Denver Broncos.

But here we are in 2006, and now we've got to wonder about whether you'll be gracing us with your presence.

And I'm tired of it.

Go ahead and call it business.

The funny part is, players always say it's business. Nothing personal, they're just looking out for themselves. Don't take their holdouts personally, the players always say.

Then the team makes a business decision and players start popping out of the woodwork saying they're underpaid for this reason or that. Or the team doesn't care about them.

Or - one of my favorites - it's not about the money but about respect.

We all know it's always about the money.

Never mind that fans have to spend $65 to sit in nose-bleed seats. The players believe there is an infinite supply of such suckers.

In Green Bay, the waiting list for season tickets is miles long. Stand all those folks in a line, and we're not talking figuratively.

But what if . . . what if . . . what if fans finally said they'd had enough?

What if a different player crying about his contract every year finally made the majority of fans say they were done with it all?

Yeah, that's living in a dream. Yeah, it's wishful thinking. Yeah, it's just not going to happen.

But what if, just once, fans could send the message? How would they do it?

We'll never find that out in Green Bay. With a team where folks take their vacations and travel from around the country just to stand outside the fence of a practice field, we're never going to find out what could happen if the fans decided to spend their money elsewhere.

And we're not even suggesting that they do that in this space. But what if?

What if every-year holdouts were enough to send the folks elsewhere?

The Packers will never find that out.

But what the Packers could do to fight the situation is at least take a stand.

They capitulated to McKenzie, sending him to the New Orleans Saints for a player since waived and a second-round pick that turned into Nick Collins.

And they again capitulated to Walker, sending him to Denver for a second-round pick.

But just once . . . just once wouldn't it be nice to see a team take a stand. "Play for what your contract says or retire."

Walker claimed he'd retire rather than play again for the Packers. Wouldn't you have liked to see them call his bluff?

Now it's Harris who's posturing. And it would be nice if the Packers took a stand.

Bretsky
07-13-2006, 11:12 PM
Last year in JS they deleted some of the PI stuff I copied and pasted onto their forum. This year I look forward to posting nearly every dam article and I'll always be happy to take request so somebody can benefit from the $3 per month I pay.

GrnBay007
07-13-2006, 11:44 PM
http://www.packerpalace.com/blog/packpredatorAl31X.gif

Fosco33
07-14-2006, 12:05 AM
http://www.packerpalace.com/blog/packpredatorAl31X.gif

:lol:

You know, if Javon had rasta threads we could blame it on that (3 years running) and use it during contract negotiation (no rasta clause) or scouting.

Tony Oday
07-14-2006, 12:08 AM
let him sit

OS PA
07-14-2006, 01:05 AM
Would anybody be angry if after signing our picks and checking the market we tossed Al a little extra money? Re-structered the final years on his contract to give him a little more?

I don't think that this would be the end of the world to the team. I find it kind of ridiculous to think that paying an underpaid player, who had a huge impact on the team in previous years, a little extra money to make him happy is a bad thing. It will not create a huge domino effect. We also wouldn't even have to change his salary we'd just add incentives to the contract that would be him for defensed passes and interceptions.

What I find dumb is dealing with hold-outs the same way for the past two years and losing two of our best players on the team due to it. Do we really want to lose another?

Fosco33
07-14-2006, 01:51 AM
Would anybody be angry if after signing our picks and checking the market we tossed Al a little extra money? Re-structered the final years on his contract to give him a little more?

I don't think that this would be the end of the world to the team. I find it kind of ridiculous to think that paying an underpaid player, who had a huge impact on the team in previous years, a little extra money to make him happy is a bad thing. It will not create a huge domino effect. We also wouldn't even have to change his salary we'd just add incentives to the contract that would be him for defensed passes and interceptions.

What I find dumb is dealing with hold-outs the same way for the past two years and losing two of our best players on the team due to it. Do we really want to lose another?

He played well last year and I would support a small/moderate 'extra' bonus as a sign of good faith. It serves the purpose to keep him playing well, shows potential FAs that we do pay for performance and allows current players to see that if you do well you can be rewarded.

That said, do I think TT would do that? - nope

Noodle
07-14-2006, 02:09 AM
I'm with you OS. Open up the wallet and show the man some love. Harris has been huge. We've played the hard ball route, and it's worked great -- buh bye Mikey, buh bye Javon.

We did the right thing with Driver, and I'd like to see us do it with Harris. He's been a stud, the cap has gone way up since he signed his deal, other guys of his caliber, in terms of importance to the team, have made more. So why the heck not?

MadtownPacker
07-14-2006, 02:31 AM
Show him the money.

packrulz
07-14-2006, 04:36 AM
I care if Harris holds out, I don't think he will, but if he has a problem he should have his agent call TT instead of whining to the press about it. He's one of the better players on the team but I think he's being paid decent money for his production. For him to point at Kampman's contract was out of line imo, you never heard Kampman bitching about what Harris was getting paid.

MJZiggy
07-14-2006, 07:21 AM
You guys wanna offer guaranteed cash? I was thinking more like a few extra LTBE's. Dangle that carrot. You want a huge payday? It's right here on the Pro Bowl list...if the $$ is for respect, then make me respect you.

Scott Campbell
07-14-2006, 08:33 AM
I don't think the Harris holdout is comparable to Walker's and McKenzie's. It's just not very ugly, and Al does a respectable job of keeping his foot out of his mouth.

That said, he has very little leverage. And he's not grossly underpaid.

Spaulding
07-14-2006, 09:49 AM
I don't think it's about showing him the money as although most agree he signed an undervalued contract for financial security, he's produced at a high level.

It's about setting precedent and renegotiating contracts (extending is a different story) and what it means to the other players under contract. I wouldn't want to have to dance that line like Thompson is stuck with but then again he's paid well to take care of things like this.

Since I'm in the corner of Harris being worthy of a raise, I'd got the MJZiggy route and amend the contract to include nice performance based bonuses and that way should he continue to perform at a pro-bowl or near pro-bowl level he gets paid. No harm in that and it sets the tone that if the Pack renegotiates contracts it for lighting a fire under the player to continue to achieve and not rest on past laurels.

Seems to be a win/win situation as long as Harris isn't just asking for more guaranteed base pay. Then I say he needs to honor it.

CaptainKickass
07-14-2006, 10:31 AM
Question:

If you open the bag of money for Al - don't you think that everyone else who "feels underpaid" is gonna come knocking?


Hmm??

Noodle
07-14-2006, 10:57 AM
But that's the point. Showing a little love know -- Zigg's is right, LTBEs (Likely To Be Earned bonuses, for those new to the show) probably make the most sense, will prevent you from having to show a lot of love later.

I'm not saying throw tons of cash his way, but do throw some.

What I'd like to have happen is the Pack getting a little better at dealing with these situations early. If a guy's agent indicates there's dissatisfaction with a current deal, the Pack should make a quick judgment. If we care (as we do with Harris), then get together quickly and quietly with the agent and get something done. If we don't, then let it play out in the press, where the player will inevitably take the hit. But none of this "We don't renegotiate, ever" crap. Because the Pack does when it wants to (Driver).

CaptainKickass
07-14-2006, 11:17 AM
So then when is enough? At what point do you draw the line or lines? Is there a financial line? A personality line? An age line? A longevity line? A productivity line?

I think Al is a fantastic player and it would sadden me to see him not play, much less not play for us.

I don't mind a guy asking for a raise. But if the boss says no, you still gotta do your job if you want to cash your paycheck.

This whole contract/millionaire whining/play it out in the press thing is disgusting, unprofessional, childish, rude, disrespectful, and shows a real lack of the one thing the Pack used to stand for and that was "Class".

Look behind you Al - there's a ton of guys dying for their chance to prove that they're a better player than you. Are you gonna give them that chance?

Willard
07-14-2006, 11:30 AM
The Pack had exactly ZERO representatives in last year's Pro Bowl. How about this for a unique incentive: any Packer who is elected to this year's Pro Bowl makes a $1MM bonus?

Pay for Play

Tony Oday
07-14-2006, 12:18 PM
Start with some int bonuses, pass defended bonuses, pro bowl selections and tackles/sacks.

Make them on par with current production maybe a little higher and give the guy the 'respect' that he earns.

If he is still bitching tell him the bench gets cold in GB in December...

Noodle
07-14-2006, 12:21 PM
Works for me.

Show some life.

If it's rejected,

Then to hell with the MF.

packrulz
07-14-2006, 04:23 PM
Al Harris: At A Glance

Has not missed a game since the start of the 1998 season, having played in 122 straight contests (112 regular season, plus 10 in the playoffs)
Recorded a team-record and career-high 28 passes defensed in 2005, eclipsing the 27 by Doug Evans in 1995 (record logged since 1982)
Played a team-high 99.1 percent of the defensive snaps in 2005
Often dons old-style knickers as a passionate golfer, is a member at the TPC Eagle Trace course in Coral Springs, Fla. Has played in several different golf events over the past few years
His Coral Springs home was featured on MTV’s Cribs
Has his own Web site: www.3irty1.com

Harris did have a good year, he works hard too & is usually healthy, so I agree with mrbojangles, extend the contract & sweeten it up. With him & Woodson & the new linebackers the D would be bad ass.

mraynrand
07-15-2006, 09:49 AM
LOL Harris' web site has been 'suspended' A harbinger of weird Al's footbal future?

I agree with the viewpoint in the posted article. I don't care and won't comment on player's salaries, holdouts, etc. etc. from this point on. The reason? IT'S BORING!

Partial
07-15-2006, 11:49 AM
I don't think you show him the money. Then we won't have any more money to improve next season or pick up a guy mid-season if we need one.

4and12to12and4
07-15-2006, 12:07 PM
TT needs to stick to his guns here, or he will be opening up a can of worms that he will be regretting for the rest of his tenure here. We do not renegotiate contracts after the first couple of years. Period. TT should let him know before the beginning of TC that his contract will be reworked IF he has another great year. But to do it now would show every player that all they have to do is whine and not show up for involuntaries to get their way. Do you all want this to begin happening at an even higher rate? Well, that is exactly what will happen if TT caves with Al.

TT doesn't give players pay DECREASES for lackluster years, so why should it only go in favor of the player? How about all the players who ROB the team by making more than they are worth? TT HAS TO put his foot down here. It is too soon. Mr. Harris signed this contract and was happy about it just a short while ago, and now he needs to be patient. All he has to do is look at Driver to know that this organization deals with it's players fairly if they do the same with the organization. It seems clear cut to me.

BooHoo
07-15-2006, 07:09 PM
I don't like this trend. Don't show Al the money, unless they planned all along to sign him to a contract extension. Don't just give him money because he whines like a baby.

4and12to12and4
07-15-2006, 07:30 PM
Good thinking Boo, TREND is exactly what I am suggesting. If we allow Al to dictate this early in his contract, a TREND will definitely be set. A very negative TREND!!

BooHoo
07-15-2006, 07:39 PM
Good thinking Boo, TREND is exactly what I am suggesting. If we allow Al to dictate this early in his contract, a TREND will definitely be set. A very negative TREND!!

Yes, I am not sure what Al is thinking.

MJZiggy
07-15-2006, 08:08 PM
I don't care if they add performance based incentives to EVERYBODY's contracts. How sucky would it be to have the whole team play to make the Pro Bowl to try and get that big payday? That way, those that play get paid like players and those who stand back and watch have nothing to bitch about.

4and12to12and4
07-15-2006, 08:15 PM
I don't care if they add performance based incentives to EVERYBODY's contracts. How sucky would it be to have the whole team play to make the Pro Bowl to try and get that big payday? That way, those that play get paid like players and those who stand back and watch have nothing to bitch about.

Agreed, that way the players will know this ... if yur the one of the best there is, we will pay you like it, if not then shut the **** up. It works for me!!

NewsBruin
07-16-2006, 07:10 AM
I don't like using the Pro Bowl as an incentive, because it rewards names and reputations instead of pure production.

The Pro Bowl roster is voted on by players, and while I'm not saying they're dumb or biased, it's more likely a player who's had many great years (or even endorsements) will be chosen over a quiet rookie who's had a breakout season. If Shawn Alexander has more highlights, but slightly fewer yards than Samkon Gado this season, which one would get the final selection?

Also, would being an injury or "I don't feel like playing the Pro Bowl" replacement count as a Pro Bowl selection?

It's not a bad concept if a player is given bonuses if he's chosen as a Pro Bowl selection, or if he's given bonuses because he exceeds Pro Bowlers in his position in X number of Y specific statistics.

MJZiggy
07-16-2006, 08:13 AM
I was using the PB as an example. You can pick any incentive you want and make it specific to each contract. What I'm saying is everyone has that "If I play like a stud then I get paid" clause in their contract so they can't come running back and saying "I'm one of the best and you're not respecting me." With these clauses, the response is, "If you're one of the best your current contract will pay you like one of the best."

Fosco33
07-19-2006, 10:45 PM
Well, it appears that Harris won't miss any camp.


Green Bay Packers CEO Bob Harlan said on Wednesday that cornerback Al Harris has committed to showing up for training camp despite apparent unhappiness with his contract.

Harris skipped the team's optional workouts in June, and has said he is unhappy with his contract -- the result, perhaps, of a seven-year, $52.7 million deal the team gave to free-agent cornerback Charles Woodson.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/football/nfl/07/19/bc.fbn.packers.harris.ap/index.html