Final Mock Offseason

[Waldo]

My guys, my dream draft. Most will hate it. But, If I had my way, this is how it would go. Values based off Brandt, Gosselin, Mayock, and NFLDS.

Note - Keep in mind, TT in 2005 did absolutely nothing about our greatest "needs" until the 7th round.

Free Agency:

Additions:
Anthony Smith, FS/SS, 6'1", 200lb
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2007/1209/nfl_u_smith_300.jpg
TT's first FA signing, he brings experience in the scheme and is a player the coaches know.

Michael Montgomery, DE, 6'5", 275lb
http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID1330/slideshows/montgomery.jpg
After Carter visited :wink: the Packers attention has turned to Montgomery, who has the right sized frame, though is a little slow and undersized for the DE position.

Duke Preston, C/G/T, 6'5", 326lb
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/crimsonnik/56516471.jpg
Versatile player brought in as a guy to compete at C, G, and RT, and at worst be a valuable player on the bench. He's very large compared to the rest of our lineman, yet has the agility to succeed in our blocking scheme if the coaches can get him to play up to his ability.

Tory Humphrey, TE/H-Back, 6'2", 255lb
http://i.packers.com/pg/humphrey_tory_2006/photo1.jpg
Tory is brought back at a lower rate than the RFA tag after a few weeks of being a FA. He's definitely not guaranteed a roster spot in the fall, but bringing him back allows for less of a sense of urgency to add a 3rd TE in the draft.

Vonnie Holiday, DE, 6'5", 285lb
http://phinphanatic.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/34407357.jpg
Vonnie still has some high end gas left in the tank. He signs for two years at an affordable rate after the draft. TT brings him back home to GB.

Subtractions:
Mark Tausher, RT
Mark is signed elsewhere prior to TT making an effort to retain him.

Colin Cole, DT
Cole signed with the Seahawks after rejecting the small offer from the Packers.

Projected 2010 compensatory picks: None

Draft:
Detroit Lions - Matthew Stafford - I think Matt signs here. They are darn close to a deal.

St. Louis - Jason Smith - The Rams are feinting interest in Sanchez. Hooey, they want a OT. It's between J. Smith and Monroe, I think that Smith will take the better deal having been through this, I think that KC want's Monroe more and he wants KC more.

Kansas City - Eugene Monroe - I think they trade down unless Monroe is on the board, or take Jackson if they can't. I think that Eugene is their true target, Pioli has been all about the good ol boy's club this offseason, and part of the club, Groh, coached Eugene.

Seattle - Michael Crabtree - Crabs has too much diva for having done nothing in the NFL. Kid's a bust waiting to happen, Seattle doesn't care, his tape is great.

Cleveland - Tyson Jackson - Linebacker vs. Lineman at #5 money. No contest. They could use an elite 5 tech.

*trade* Cincinnati trades #6 to Washington for #13 and Carlos Rodgers.

Washington - Mark Sanchez - It's pretty clear, the damage is done, Campbell is PO'ed, this isn't going to work in '09, Dan needs a new QB. Dan starts making this offer at #3, Cincy is the first team that bites. There is no way to mend the fences with Jason, however they immediately put him up for sale and come grab Mark.

Oakland - Andre Smith - Two things are well known with Al Davis. He loves speed. And he knows a good football player when he sees one. He puts on the tape of Andre, and sees one.

*trade* the Jacksonville Jaguars trade #8 to the Houston Texans for #15 and #77

Houston - Aaron Curry - Houston trades up to nab the best LB in the draft.

*trade* the Green Bay Packers trade #9 to the Denver Broncos for #12 and #114

Denver Broncos - BJ Raji - Denver calls with a pitiful offer; hey maybe they don't want that NT all that much. TT bites. We don't.

San Francisco 49ers - Jeremy Maclin - The 49ers have needs here and there, but they could really use a young stud to pair with Josh Morgan to make up their WR corps of the future.

Buffalo Bills - Brian Orakpo - Bills fans are floored, amazed, excited, and thrilled that 'Rak falls to them, and Buffalo management bites.

#12 - Knowshon Moreno, RB, 5'11", 217lb
http://lesterslegends.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/knowshon-moreno.jpg
Knowshon literally is the perfect running back prospect, minus his long speed. Blocking, catching, character, leadership, competitiveness, slipping every tackle, and downright nose for the endzone. TT can see it, sense it, his "it" will transfer to the pro level, Knowshon, along with Rodgers, Colledge, Jennings, and Finley, completes the QB, LT, RB, WR, TE formula for dominance, this young core is ready to shred the NFL for a decade. Knowshon is the "over the hump" player that completes it. MM drools over a back that is such a factor in the running and passing game. This years first sucks. Knowshon is a very safe pick. The kid is too much of a natural to not be good.

*trade* Green Bay trades #41 to New York for #45 and #151.

#45 - Louis Delmas, FS/SS, 6'0", 202lb
http://blog.mlive.com/broncos_impact/2008/09/large_WMUDelmasceleb.jpg
With Hood, English, Barwin, and Unger off the board, TT trades down a hair to a team looking for a WR, and picks up the best S in this class. Louis oozes confidence and leadership, side by side with the rest of the safety class, Louis looks to be on a different level on the field. Even though he comes from a small school.

*trade* - TT trades #73 to Tampa for #81, #155, and #229

#81 - TJ Lang, OG, 6'4", 316lb
http://media.scout.com/media/image/66/664687.jpg
With Gerald Cadogan off the board, TT trades down and takes his highest rated lineman available. Lang screams TT lineman. He's a 4 position lineman, so will allow Colledge or Sitton to move to RT if Barbre, Moll, or Breno don't step up, if Lang doesn't win the RT spot outright.

#83 - Jason Williams, OLB, 6'1", 241lb
http://www.wiu.edu/alumni/westernNews/spring09/williams.jpg
I'm a big fan of his, he's pretty much a poor man's Clay Matthews. The scheme he played in makes his experience very similar to a 3-4 OLB. Outstanding athleticism, he started as a S and moved to LB. Can cover better than the average 3-4 OLB prospect. Time in gymnastics has made him a very flexible player with good body control and bend. TT wants to trade this pick down, but feels that Jason is a steal here, he thought real hard about him where he took Lang.

#109 - Everette Pedescleaux, DE, 6'6", 305lb
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/ep2.jpg
Everette had character issues long in the past, but he learned from his mistakes and TT gives him a chance. Superior frame and athleticism, Jarron Gilbert has nothing on Everette. Everette has the physical ability to dominate at the next level.

#114 - Tony Fiammetta, 6'0", 245lb
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3212/2936829376_be07640eae.jpg
With Morrah and Veikune off the board here, TT goes with Tony. Tony is the perfect WCO FB, hands, blocking ability, and fast. MM has lots of uses for a guy like Tony. One of Hall or Kuhn will need a new job. TT makes a serious commitment to running the ball this offseason.

#145 - Sammie Lee Hill, NT, 6'4", 329
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/ll431/_iNFuSioN_/sammieLH.jpg
I'm projecting Sammie to fall a bit here. Problem with him is, he might need a year on the PS, that can't happen until at least the 5th round. Teams are hesitant to take him before then. He's got the size and athleticism, but is very raw.

#151 - Joel Bell, OT, 6'7", 315
http://purpleaxe.typepad.com/the_paladin_walk/images/2007/06/18/joel_bell.jpg
Joel is this year's entry in the TT 4th-5th round athletic, high upside small school lineman group. He too screams TT lineman prospect all around, Joel was meant to be a Packer.

#155 - Henry Melton, OLB, 6'4", 269lb
http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/melton.jpg
Melton isn't quite as well known as his more famous teammate, but is almost every bit as athletic. A recent covert to the defensive side of the ball, he started his career as a RB.

#182 - Eron Riley, WR, 6'3", 206lb
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0b5l1tqgtg0jT/610x.jpg
Heyward-Bey is a first rounder for being 6'0"+ and running a 4.3. Eron is 6'3" and runs a 4.29. Plus he was darn good and productive in school, Moreso than Darrius. Sucks for him that he went to Duke. At least TT got a chance to see him when he took a look at Paulus.

#187 - Pannel Egboh, DE, 6'6", 276lb
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0cUh48ZbsdeJY/610x.jpg
Needs to gain about 10 pounds, but great frame and good speed and athleticism. Possibly underrated by being a better 3-4 fit than 4-3 fit, plus he has 3-4 experience from earlier in his career when Stanford ran a 3-4.

#218 - Antonio Dixon, NT, 6'3", 324lb
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/05SraKx45s9f9/340x.jpg
Battled a number of injuries through his career. An underrated prospect that would most likely be considered considerably higher if he stayed healthy. Will push for the #2 spot or a PS spot.

#229 - Jason McCourty, 5'10", 193lb
http://blog.nj.com/rutgers_football/2008/11/medium_mcourt01.jpg
Kids a little short, but he has hops and can fly (4.30), his cone is sick (6.67). The tools are there. TT visited with him, has interest, and takes a flier on him.

[Lurker64]

Interesting. I like landing Fiametta, Hill, Pedescleaux, and Egboh. Bell is a guy that I thought TT would pick in the late rounds for about 3 months now.

With Delmas and Moreno as the first day picks though, Packerfandom is going to errupt with anti-TT sentiment, but I think I'd be okay with it. Knowshon would win more than a few converts. He has as good a shot as being a special player as any of the eleven guys picked ahead of him, and he's likely a safer pick.

Which OLB and DL prospects do you see us passing on for Delmas and Lang, do you think there's anybody worth considering at either of those picks.

Also, you didn't list a position for Jason McCourty, presumably he'd be a CB?

To be honest though, I kind of liked your earlier mock offseason more, from a visceral level, since we landed both a starting CB and a DE in the first, but with the recent rise of Jackson he may well not be there at 9. Do you think there's a good chance we'll sign Vonnie? The last I heard was that things were sort of cold on that front.

[Waldo]

Things are going to be cool with Vonnie or Kevin until after the draft.

Yeah McCourty is a CB

Delmas....Sintim and C. Brown, Gilbert, Moala, Brace, and Magee. I think that he's better than all of them. He has that special leadership/on fild DC quality that great S's have. Like Butler had.

Lang....Veikune, Scott, Pryor on the board. Someone has to play RT. Lang makes it possible for Colledge or Sitton to join the fight with Barbre, Moll, and Breno.

The drat kinda sucks for OLB prospects after the 2nd, but it is pretty strong beforehand. Williams is actually more of a 3-4 OLB prospect than anything. That is how he played in school.

Bell is so TT it isn't even funny. Lang is too though. Lang is like a poor man's Unger. Bell has serious LT potential. LT feet, LT size, LT arms.

[mission]

Waldo -- Do we feel this way about Moreno because we happen to live in Georgia?? is this kid really the real deal? He just seems special ... and honestly, I feel a key factor in Stafford being able to gain a national spotlight. I hate UGA and am not all over the Stafford bandwagon obviously but Moreno made the whole offense exciting to watch.

There would be a fucking uproar if TT traded down and took Moreno but it'd almost make for a lot more to look forward to. Even his ability to take what should be a yard loss and make it a two yard gain is something I noticed a lot of ... he's just hard to bring down. Again, a football player.

I enjoyed this final mock... but where is my dude Simmons?

[SnakeLH2006]

Man....if Teddy T picks up a RB at #12 or #9, Snake swears his Youtube video will be better than this, and I do plan on using a HD vid recorder to sit around with his buds and tape the first pick...just in case it gets this bad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_dBns0i2vw

Classic highlights at 1:22, 1:57, and 2:14.

Let's hope it doesn't get that bad, but seriously, a RB? Somehow Snake sees it though with the first pick under Ted (BPA baby) Thompson, but goddamn it!!...My 50" Plasma will get a mad dose of urine and Snake will probably kick his neighbor's dog out back if that goes down. Just thought about it....Yep, done deal, that dog gets kicked then. Just sayin...Damn. I'm getting stressed just thinking about it. :cry: :evil:

[packrulz]

I would like this draft, I think Knowshon Moreno will be a pro bowler.

[Bretsky]

I'd be ok with that draft

[sheepshead]

I agree and think TT is going to find a way to take an RB in the first round. I think, he thinks, he can get the defensive bodies in later rounds.

[Bretsky]

If a RB is elite he'll help this team as much as anything. I'd be ok with Moreno if TT trades down a bit.

[sheepshead]

If a RB is elite he'll help this team as much as anything. I'd be ok with Moreno if TT trades down a bit.

Actually, I think the opposite. If a defensive guy is "elite" you spend the first round dough on him. You have to always assume, hope and pray your first round pick is elite. Defensive guys really have to stand out IMO. I think TT has a few defensive guys in mind, if theyre not there, I think he goes RB.

[Fritz]

No one will know until Sunday night how many if any names Waldo gets right, but the idea of this mock - that it will be full of names hardly anyone has discussed, but make perfect sense in retrospect - is spot one.

I'd be okay with Moreno. If he's as special as I'm hearing from different sources, lacking the top-end speed means 20 yard runs instead of touchdowns but also means that he'll consistently get the extra two or three yards.

I kinda try to be open to whatever TT picks. I think the draft is his forte, despite the shots Greg Bedard keeps taking in his little "Daily Briefings," and so I think TT probably knows more than I do about who'll be good and who won't.

[Waldo]

Each year I think (hope) that we have a little better idea of what TT is looking for, I think that the OL is one place that he's starting to get more predictable.

TT lineman have a few particular qualities:

Athletic - they are fast and agile compared to the pack relatively, TT likes lineman that can move.

Feet - TT likes lineman with the footwork to be elite pass blockers. Many big TE's move to tackle because they have athlete feet, not fat guy feet. TT grabs college tackles with good feet to play them all over his line.

Size - a TT lineman is not a skinny 295 lb guy, the bigger the better, as long as they have the feet and athleticism.

Demeanor - A TT lineman plays mean as hell on the field. He doesn't like the nice guys like Clifton, he likes the guys that'll lay into defenders a la Tausher. Colledge plays a little mean, and he's the nicest guy (on the field) TT has taken at OL since MM has been coach.

Lang and Bell both have all of these qualities. Both were LT's at the college level, both are outstanding athletes, both are pretty big, being 310+, both are noted for playing mean and angry on the field.

[RashanGary]

I could see Eric Wood too.

[Waldo]

I could see Eric Wood too.

He's close, but he doesn't really have T feet. He's more of a mauler that'll be OK at pass blocking than a elite pass blocker that does OK run blocking.

[RashanGary]

He's a guard that would move DC to tackle. I like him.

[Freak Out]

That would be a hell of a draft. Here's to hoping Waldo Pepper is right. :glug:

[Fritz]

I'd take that. And it'd be interesting, if it happened, to see who lines up at the LDE spot on opening day, if Jolly is suspended.

Will Harrell be healthy? Would a raw rook be able to step in? Would - cringe - Mike Montgomery have to line up as the starter?

[mraynrand]

I bet the lunatic anti-Ted Thompson nutters who respond to JSO blogs will go absolutely ape shit psycho if Ted drafts a running back in the first round. It seems that a lot of people outside this board (and maybe here too?) think the Packers are completely set at running back.

Waldo - you may have addressed this elsewhere already, but what do you think of Clay Matthews?

[Waldo]

I bet the lunatic anti-Ted Thompson nutters who respond to JSO blogs will go absolutely ape shit psycho if Ted drafts a running back in the first round. It seems that a lot of people outside this board (and maybe here too?) think the Packers are completely set at running back.

Waldo - you may have addressed this elsewhere already, but what do you think of Clay Matthews?

I love Clay.

Clay, Barwin, and English are my favorite OLB prospects this class.

I think there are three kinds of guys that are successful at 3-4 OLB:

Freaks - This is your Merriman, Ware, Wimbley type. Maybin would fit in with this group, as would Barwin. Physically everything you look for. Tall, fast and long. Jeremy Thompson is this type of guy. Lawrence Sidbury is a little later prospect amongst this group.

Crazies - This is your Kevin Greene, Harrison type. Little guys with a screw loose that go all out and have zero fear. Pops fits in with this group, as does Matthews and Williams. Phillip Hunt is a late round guy that belongs here too.

Relentless - This is your Woodley, Suggs type, the guys that go 110% every second on the field, that have some sanity. Technicians. Kamp is amongst this group, this year Everette Brown and Larry English fit in here. Veikune is a lesser prospect that fits the bill.

I think that Clay, in a 3-4 scheme, is going to be the second coming of Kevin Greene. Their game is very similar. I don't see him as much of a 4-3 LB though, aside from a really good sam.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Man....if Teddy T picks up a RB at #12 or #9, Snake swears his Youtube video will be better than this, and I do plan on using a HD vid recorder to sit around with his buds and tape the first pick...just in case it gets this bad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_dBns0i2vw

Classic highlights at 1:22, 1:57, and 2:14.

You gonna aim for YouTube flipout glory, swing for this fence instead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8pR1rZZHEs&feature=related

[TheCheese]

I bet the lunatic anti-Ted Thompson nutters who respond to JSO blogs will go absolutely ape shit psycho if Ted drafts a running back in the first round. It seems that a lot of people outside this board (and maybe here too?) think the Packers are completely set at running back.

Waldo - you may have addressed this elsewhere already, but what do you think of Clay Matthews?

I love Clay.

Clay, Barwin, and English are my favorite OLB prospects this class.

I think there are three kinds of guys that are successful at 3-4 OLB:

Freaks - This is your Merriman, Ware, Wimbley type. Maybin would fit in with this group, as would Barwin. Physically everything you look for. Tall, fast and long. Jeremy Thompson is this type of guy. Lawrence Sidbury is a little later prospect amongst this group.

Crazies - This is your Kevin Greene, Harrison type. Little guys with a screw loose that go all out and have zero fear. Pops fits in with this group, as does Matthews and Williams. Phillip Hunt is a late round guy that belongs here too.

Relentless - This is your Woodley, Suggs type, the guys that go 110% every second on the field, that have some sanity. Technicians. Kamp is amongst this group, this year Everette Brown and Larry English fit in here. Veikune is a lesser prospect that fits the bill.

I think that Clay, in a 3-4 scheme, is going to be the second coming of Kevin Greene. Their game is very similar. I don't see him as much of a 4-3 LB though, aside from a really good sam.

This is pretty spot on except I'm not crazy about Clay, but the other two guys you mentioned are studs. Barwin is a physical freak and like you said English is relentless. Last few years I haven't been too vocal on who I want Green Bay to draft but English this year is that guy. I'm looking forward to seeing him play in the NFL and hopefully it's in green and gold.

[Gunakor]

#12 - Knowshon Moreno, RB, 5'11", 217lb
http://lesterslegends.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/knowshon-moreno.jpg
Knowshon literally is the perfect running back prospect, minus his long speed. Blocking, catching, character, leadership, competitiveness, slipping every tackle, and downright nose for the endzone. TT can see it, sense it, his "it" will transfer to the pro level, Knowshon, along with Rodgers, Colledge, Jennings, and Finley, completes the QB, LT, RB, WR, TE formula for dominance, this young core is ready to shred the NFL for a decade. Knowshon is the "over the hump" player that completes it. MM drools over a back that is such a factor in the running and passing game. This years first sucks. Knowshon is a very safe pick. The kid is too much of a natural to not be good.

Brandon Jackson wouldn't see the field very often at all if we drafted a RB with our first pick, and Ryan Grant would possibly be upset by it as well.

Honestly, I don't think we need to draft a RB. Especially that high. The Grant/Jackson tandem will be awesome for us this year, and I like Lumpkin as our #3 (also a Georgia back who was pretty good).

Moreno is probably going to be a special player in this league for some team, but I feel he might be wasted a bit on our team. And if he's not wasted on our team, it means someone else is. I'd rather we took someone else.

[sheepshead]

#12 - Knowshon Moreno, RB, 5'11", 217lb
http://lesterslegends.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/knowshon-moreno.jpg
Knowshon literally is the perfect running back prospect, minus his long speed. Blocking, catching, character, leadership, competitiveness, slipping every tackle, and downright nose for the endzone. TT can see it, sense it, his "it" will transfer to the pro level, Knowshon, along with Rodgers, Colledge, Jennings, and Finley, completes the QB, LT, RB, WR, TE formula for dominance, this young core is ready to shred the NFL for a decade. Knowshon is the "over the hump" player that completes it. MM drools over a back that is such a factor in the running and passing game. This years first sucks. Knowshon is a very safe pick. The kid is too much of a natural to not be good.

Brandon Jackson wouldn't see the field very often at all if we drafted a RB with our first pick, and Ryan Grant would possibly be upset by it as well.

Honestly, I don't think we need to draft a RB. Especially that high. The Grant/Jackson tandem will be awesome for us this year, and I like Lumpkin as our #3 (also a Georgia back who was pretty good).

Moreno is probably going to be a special player in this league for some team, but I feel he might be wasted a bit on our team. And if he's not wasted on our team, it means someone else is. I'd rather we took someone else.


pssst..we get more than one pick!

[Gunakor]

#12 - Knowshon Moreno, RB, 5'11", 217lb
http://lesterslegends.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/knowshon-moreno.jpg
Knowshon literally is the perfect running back prospect, minus his long speed. Blocking, catching, character, leadership, competitiveness, slipping every tackle, and downright nose for the endzone. TT can see it, sense it, his "it" will transfer to the pro level, Knowshon, along with Rodgers, Colledge, Jennings, and Finley, completes the QB, LT, RB, WR, TE formula for dominance, this young core is ready to shred the NFL for a decade. Knowshon is the "over the hump" player that completes it. MM drools over a back that is such a factor in the running and passing game. This years first sucks. Knowshon is a very safe pick. The kid is too much of a natural to not be good.

Brandon Jackson wouldn't see the field very often at all if we drafted a RB with our first pick, and Ryan Grant would possibly be upset by it as well.

Honestly, I don't think we need to draft a RB. Especially that high. The Grant/Jackson tandem will be awesome for us this year, and I like Lumpkin as our #3 (also a Georgia back who was pretty good).

Moreno is probably going to be a special player in this league for some team, but I feel he might be wasted a bit on our team. And if he's not wasted on our team, it means someone else is. I'd rather we took someone else.


pssst..we get more than one pick!

Do we get more than one pick @ #12? Waldo has him being picked by Green Bay at #12. Somebody's services are being wasted if we pick Moreno at #12. What do our other picks have to do with this assessment?

[Lurker64]

Do we get more than one pick @ #12? Waldo has him being picked by Green Bay at #12. Somebody's services are being wasted if we pick Moreno at #12. What do our other picks have to do with this assessment?

Just asking, would you pass up a chance to pick a special player just because he would displace a couple of average guys who play his position?

*IF* you think that Moreno is a special player, it does make sense from that perspective.

[Fritz]

But then...what if Moreno is awesome awesome??? Wouldn't you love having that guy slashing past would-be tacklers? Would you be willing to relegate Jackson to third down duty, and have Moreno split carries with Grant?

I don't know. I see what you're saying. Guess I'd still like to see Raji or Jackson, but I could handle Moreno.

Everette Brown, not so much.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Good for you to post your mock Waldo. Takes a pair to throw a complete draft that goes against the grain of what is thought of here.

[Gunakor]

Do we get more than one pick @ #12? Waldo has him being picked by Green Bay at #12. Somebody's services are being wasted if we pick Moreno at #12. What do our other picks have to do with this assessment?

Just asking, would you pass up a chance to pick a special player just because he would displace a couple of average guys who play his position?

*IF* you think that Moreno is a special player, it does make sense from that perspective.

I would pass him up, only because it's pick #12 at that point. We could pick a special player at another position instead.

Besides, I don't think of Ryan Grant as merely average either. Moreno might be a bit better than Grant, but is it worth spending a #12 pick to upgrade when there are bigger needs on the team? You know that early there's going to be someone on the board that would be an upgrade at another position. Offensive tackle maybe - trade down and get Britton later in the round, who has as good a chance to be a special player as Moreno but at a position of greater need, and get a better pick as compensation on top of it.

[Waldo]

At best there are 5-15 true special players taken in a single draft.

Greg is a special player. Rodgers might become one. Nick is on the fringe.

When you think you see one, and feel secure about it, take him, no matter what position he plays.

Needs can be filled by role players. Special players are truly rare and often are not what you need to fill your holes. But the more special players you have, the better your team is.

Remember the draft is not for next year. The draft is for 5 years from now, when needs are totally different.

[Gunakor]

At best there are 5-15 true special players taken in a single draft.

Greg is a special player. Rodgers might become one. Nick is on the fringe.

When you think you see one, and feel secure about it, take him, no matter what position he plays.

Needs can be filled by role players. Special players are truly rare and often are not what you need to fill your holes. But the more special players you have, the better your team is.

Remember the draft is not for next year. The draft is for 5 years from now, when needs are totally different.

I don't think Moreno is THAT special. Sure, if I thought he was going to be the next Barry Sanders or LaDanian Tomlinson, I wouldn't hesitate. But I don't get that feeling from Moreno, and neither do 11 teams picking before us in your mock. He's going to be very good, maybe great. Same feeling I get from Ryan Grant. I'm amazed that so many people consider Ryan Grant to be merely average and are calling for his demotion. Especially a demotion in favor of a rookie.

It's just not worth the pick to me, because I feel Jackson could be great as a DE and we don't have anyone else I think could be great there already. I feel Britton could be a special OT and we don't have anyone who gives me that feeling there either. Moreno doesn't strike me a whole lot more than Ryan Grant. There's the difference IMO.

[Lurker64]

I don't think Moreno is THAT special. Sure, if I thought he was going to be the next Barry Sanders or LaDanian Tomlinson, I wouldn't hesitate. But I don't get that feeling from Moreno, and neither do 11 teams picking before us in your mock. He's going to be very good, maybe great.

I can very easily see Moreno as the next Brian Westbrook. If you could draft a 21 year old Brian Westbrook at 12, would you?


It's just not worth the pick to me, because I feel Jackson could be great as a DE and we don't have anyone else I think could be great there already. I feel Britton could be a special OT and we don't have anyone who gives me that feeling there either.

Jackson was long gone in Waldo's scenario, and Britton is even more of a reach at 12 than Moreno is, though he fills more of a need. Hell, why would you take Britton with Oher on the board?

[Waldo]

I don't think Moreno is THAT special. Sure, if I thought he was going to be the next Barry Sanders or LaDanian Tomlinson, I wouldn't hesitate. But I don't get that feeling from Moreno, and neither do 11 teams picking before us in your mock. He's going to be very good, maybe great.

I can very easily see Moreno as the next Brian Westbrook. If you could draft a 21 year old Brian Westbrook at 12, would you?


It's just not worth the pick to me, because I feel Jackson could be great as a DE and we don't have anyone else I think could be great there already. I feel Britton could be a special OT and we don't have anyone who gives me that feeling there either.

Jackson was long gone in Waldo's scenario, and Britton is even more of a reach at 12 than Moreno is, though he fills more of a need. Hell, why would you take Britton with Oher on the board?

I think that the worst you'll see out of Knowshon is a Fred Taylor like career (minus the injuries).

Knowshon never gets hit and is durable as can be.

He runs an awful lot like some of the great ones, who themselves weren't very fast.

How is it that this kid who isn't very fast, or big, that ran behind a banged up line built of green underclassmen, is the 2nd most productive RB in UGA history in only a year and a half of starting, that looked like one of the great ones from his very first snap?

[Gunakor]

I don't think Moreno is THAT special. Sure, if I thought he was going to be the next Barry Sanders or LaDanian Tomlinson, I wouldn't hesitate. But I don't get that feeling from Moreno, and neither do 11 teams picking before us in your mock. He's going to be very good, maybe great.

I can very easily see Moreno as the next Brian Westbrook. If you could draft a 21 year old Brian Westbrook at 12, would you?


It's just not worth the pick to me, because I feel Jackson could be great as a DE and we don't have anyone else I think could be great there already. I feel Britton could be a special OT and we don't have anyone who gives me that feeling there either.

Jackson was long gone in Waldo's scenario, and Britton is even more of a reach at 12 than Moreno is, though he fills more of a need. Hell, why would you take Britton with Oher on the board?

First, like I said, if I felt Moreno was that special absolutely I'd draft him at 12. But I don't get that feeling from him nor any other back in this draft. And if I did feel that way about him, I'd just draft him at #9 expecting that other people felt that way about him too.

Second, I wouldn't reach for Britton at #12. I wouldn't be picking at #12, I'd have traded down to #22 or later and drafted Britton late in the first round. That way I'd have gotten my OT and have gotten a 2nd round pick in return as opposed to a 3rd.

[sheepshead]

#12 - Knowshon Moreno, RB, 5'11", 217lb
http://lesterslegends.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/knowshon-moreno.jpg
Knowshon literally is the perfect running back prospect, minus his long speed. Blocking, catching, character, leadership, competitiveness, slipping every tackle, and downright nose for the endzone. TT can see it, sense it, his "it" will transfer to the pro level, Knowshon, along with Rodgers, Colledge, Jennings, and Finley, completes the QB, LT, RB, WR, TE formula for dominance, this young core is ready to shred the NFL for a decade. Knowshon is the "over the hump" player that completes it. MM drools over a back that is such a factor in the running and passing game. This years first sucks. Knowshon is a very safe pick. The kid is too much of a natural to not be good.

Brandon Jackson wouldn't see the field very often at all if we drafted a RB with our first pick, and Ryan Grant would possibly be upset by it as well.

Honestly, I don't think we need to draft a RB. Especially that high. The Grant/Jackson tandem will be awesome for us this year, and I like Lumpkin as our #3 (also a Georgia back who was pretty good).

Moreno is probably going to be a special player in this league for some team, but I feel he might be wasted a bit on our team. And if he's not wasted on our team, it means someone else is. I'd rather we took someone else.


pssst..we get more than one pick!

Do we get more than one pick @ #12? Waldo has him being picked by Green Bay at #12. Somebody's services are being wasted if we pick Moreno at #12. What do our other picks have to do with this assessment?

No man, but you act like this pick is life or death. Its a total crap shoot. We are going to have other picks to fill other needs. If TT is going to spend #9 money, I would rather have him spend it on a guy that will be carrying the ball. Not that defensive players cant make an impact. Grant is still a question mark as the "long term answer" besides the careers of halfbacks are only a little longer than fullbacks. Taking a defensive guy in the top 10 you better feel real good about him IMO. Otherwise, theres plenty of other picks for far less money.

[Gunakor]

Do we get more than one pick @ #12? Waldo has him being picked by Green Bay at #12. Somebody's services are being wasted if we pick Moreno at #12. What do our other picks have to do with this assessment?

No man, but you act like this pick is life or death. Its a total crap shoot. We are going to have other picks to fill other needs. If TT is going to spend #9 money, I would rather have him spend it on a guy that will be carrying the ball. Not that defensive players cant make an impact. Grant is still a question mark as the "long term answer" besides the careers of halfbacks are only a little longer than fullbacks. Taking a defensive guy in the top 10 you better feel real good about him IMO. Otherwise, theres plenty of other picks for far less money.

Well, taking a player at any position in the top 10 you'd better feel real good about. If TT is going to spend #9 money, I'd rather he spend it wisely. Like I have been saying, I have no doubt that Moreno is going to be a very good player in this league. But at #9, or #12 as Waldo has us picking in his mock, there are other guys who are going to be very good players in this league - every bit as good as Moreno IMO - at positions of much greater need to us than halfback is.

I guess I just don't think Moreno is going to be a HOF back like some of you think he is going to be. And if I did think that way about him, I'd just draft him at #9 rather than trade down 3 spots and risk losing him.

[Partial]

This guy is a talent. I proclaimed him earlier as a Brian Westbrook kind of guy. I stand by that. Could definitely see him thriving in a role ala Westbrook.

[swede]

Man....if Teddy T picks up a RB at #12 or #9, Snake swears his Youtube video will be better than this, and I do plan on using a HD vid recorder to sit around with his buds and tape the first pick...just in case it gets this bad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_dBns0i2vw

Classic highlights at 1:22, 1:57, and 2:14.

You gonna aim for YouTube flipout glory, swing for this fence instead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8pR1rZZHEs&feature=related


I may be the only person on the planet that hasn't seen the crazy German kid go off. And now my life is altered forever.
I not only watched all four and a half minutes with my jaw hanging open, but I also spent another twenty minutes watching all the permutations with the faux translations. (Crazy German Kid vs. the Numa Numa kid was probably the best.)

[swede]

Waldo, not only do you know football pretty good, but you could work for the FBI as a profiler. In the 70's you could have worked in the CIA as a Kremlinologist.

That mock walks and talks like Ted. And I'd be quite okay with it. And the national media will give it a C. And three years later more of our guys will be on the team than the teams given A's and B's by the draft "experts" who are, now that I think about it, nothing more than sports journalists/entertainers.

[SnakeLH2006]

I would pass him up, only because it's pick #12 at that point. We could pick a special player at another position instead.

Besides, I don't think of Ryan Grant as merely average either. Moreno might be a bit better than Grant, but is it worth spending a #12 pick to upgrade when there are bigger needs on the team? You know that early there's going to be someone on the board that would be an upgrade at another position. Offensive tackle maybe - trade down and get Britton later in the round, who has as good a chance to be a special player as Moreno but at a position of greater need, and get a better pick as compensation on top of it.

Yep, yep, yep, and ahh..yep.

Snake agrees with that astute assessment Gunakor. I know I bash Grant from time to time, but he IS a serviceable starter...Do I think that an upgrade is necessary right now, nope...but over time yes...So let's get the yards out of him while we are paying him now. He's slightly above average for a starting RB, nothing less, nothing more. But fine for now. Besides, isn't our awesome zone block scheme supposed to enhance talent making it possible for FA rook scrubs to step in for 1500 yards anyway?:roll:

Moreno might be great, so could Beanie, but that seems kinda lame to spend that pick that high on a RB that is all over the board from #10-#20 or so. Now if that was AP from the Vikes a few years ago, fuck ya, trade up for him....Snake really wanted that guy. But unless this guy is a primo talent that is sure-fire...no need to go that route right now is all.

Grant's OK for now...can we all say the same for DE's (fuck no)...DT (maybe for this year as Pickett is a FA next year)...passrushers (do we have ANY with nicknames not rhyming with Scampi, Lampee, or Dampy...?)...etc. OT...some say Colledge will be a beast...ok, then what about RT? Tauchy is hurt and a FA. Upgrading either of those OT spots would mean much more than Moreno, as he's not a sure-fire stud, and then what relegate Grant and his $4-5 million to the bench for a slight upgrade, maybe better?

None of these guys are in the first round are can't-miss prospects (for so long as Snake can remember...where are the sure-fire studs this year?...not saying this draft is weak, just really all over at the top), so why strong-arm that pick into making it into something it isn't? An unproven at this point at a deece position when those needs are so dire elsewhere is not too awesome. :huh:

[mission]

At best there are 5-15 true special players taken in a single draft.

Greg is a special player. Rodgers might become one. Nick is on the fringe.

When you think you see one, and feel secure about it, take him, no matter what position he plays.

Needs can be filled by role players. Special players are truly rare and often are not what you need to fill your holes. But the more special players you have, the better your team is.

Remember the draft is not for next year. The draft is for 5 years from now, when needs are totally different.

I don't think Moreno is THAT special. Sure, if I thought he was going to be the next Barry Sanders or LaDanian Tomlinson, I wouldn't hesitate. But I don't get that feeling from Moreno, and neither do 11 teams picking before us in your mock. He's going to be very good, maybe great. Same feeling I get from Ryan Grant. I'm amazed that so many people consider Ryan Grant to be merely average and are calling for his demotion. Especially a demotion in favor of a rookie.

It's just not worth the pick to me, because I feel Jackson could be great as a DE and we don't have anyone else I think could be great there already. I feel Britton could be a special OT and we don't have anyone who gives me that feeling there either. Moreno doesn't strike me a whole lot more than Ryan Grant. There's the difference IMO.

You've made some really good points in this thread so I won't even attempt to combat them ... it's really more of a preference thing at this point. But, honestly, I think Moreno really *is* the second coming of Tomlinson. He just does so many things right, never takes a hit, always gets you a yard, etc...

Gotta admit, I was on his bandwagon, then off, then on again ... he's just one of the few college players I remember from last year who looked like they were on another level. The game looks so much slower to him.

Im in drunk-Moreno-spamming mood apparently (4th thread now?)... the more Ive gotten excited about shit the farther it's came from happening (so I better cool my jets).

8-)