Matthews Versus Barwin

[Fritz]

This, in my mind, is the crux of the trade-up for Matthews. Would you rather have Matthews andmiss out not only on your third rounders (two) but also the chance you might've had to trade one of those thirds this year for a second next year?

I was a bit bummed about giving up so much to move up when the Pack could've taken Barwin, but Waldo wrote something that got me thinking: he wrote that Barwin is built like a beast but is a project - he needs serious development and does not have that "it" factor - the "he's a football player" factor that Matthews apparently has.

For some time now some Packerrats have been complaining that Thompson drafts too many "project-y" guys and not guys that have that oomph, that hardcore attitude.

Well, Ted Thompson has changed course. Wist, for one, felt Thompson was always drafting project guys who might be good in three or four years. Well, Thomnpson didn't do that this time.

So upon reflection, I'm getting used to the idea that Matthews may have been worth the price. But it is hard to watch this third round....

[HarveyWallbangers]

What's the deal on Barwin? Like Matthews, he's athletic. However, don't some scouts think Barwin will end up being a TE? Aren't there more questions about his ability to be a LB? Also, he's a bit more of a project, isn't he? Somebody that would help you 2-3 years down the line.

[Fritz]

Exactly. He's the kind of guy that I suspect Thompson might've taken two or three years ago when he was still trying to "build up" the core of the team.

All signs from Thompson indicate, to me, that he really really likes the talent he's amassed, and the time has come to stop picking future develpmental type of guys and to start picking guys who can step in either immediately or in one year and contribute more or less right away. It's a more aggressive, short term attitude (not that these guys can't play for a long time but they won't require as much development perhaps).

[Waldo]

This, in my mind, is the crux of the trade-up for Matthews. Would you rather have Matthews andmiss out not only on your third rounders (two) but also the chance you might've had to trade one of those thirds this year for a second next year?

I was a bit bummed about giving up so much to move up when the Pack could've taken Barwin, but Waldo wrote something that got me thinking: he wrote that Barwin is built like a beast but is a project - he needs serious development and does not have that "it" factor - the "he's a football player" factor that Matthews apparently has.

For some time now some Packerrats have been complaining that Thompson drafts too many "project-y" guys and not guys that have that oomph, that hardcore attitude.

Well, Ted Thompson has changed course. Wist, for one, felt Thompson was always drafting project guys who might be good in three or four years. Well, Thomnpson didn't do that this time.

So upon reflection, I'm getting used to the idea that Matthews may have been worth the price. But it is hard to watch this third round....

I think that Barwin is a heck of a football player. Very similar to Kamp in how he approaches it. Very physically talented, but needs a ton of work before he's ready to hit the the field at the pro level. He's got a real good work ethic and is smart, so I think that he has a good chance of making it.

Matthews is a more polished OLB, he has enough coverage ability that we could throw him out there right away.

Clay plays like a crazy man though. Can't teach that.

[RashanGary]

Clay plays like a crazy man though. Can't teach that.



I like this about him. Plus he's got that extreme short area speed. He's going to get up in blockers faces awfully quick and with a whole hell of a lot of force.

[Fritz]

Clay plays like a crazy man though. Can't teach that.



I like this about him. Plus he's got that extreme short area speed. He's going to get up in blockers faces awfully quick and with a whole hell of a lot of force.

And that's what several posters have been lamenting the past year - the Packers don't have enough of that "crazy balls to the walls" attitude on defense.

Guess they have someone like that now.

[KYPack]

I've been knocked out by Barwin's development.

Barwin was a TE at UCincy. A great, hustling kid, but no NFL prospect, really. They moved him to LB in a pinch and he just freakin' blossomed. For him to be mentioned in the same sentence with Matthews is amazing to me, but Connor does deserve the praise.

I would much rather see Matthews in G&G, but I can't see Barwin as his athletic peer. Mayve Connor will prove me wrong, but I think Matthews has a ton of upside & will be the star of the two players.

[gbpackfan]

Barwin vs. Matthews isn't even a fair fight. NOT A SINGLE GM in the NFL would take Barwin over Matthews. I love the pick! You want a player, you go get him!!!!

[rbaloha1]

As a huge supporter of Barwin I wanted TT to select him.

Initially stunned by TT's bold move but after studying the pick more realize Matthews is a better pick for the PACKRS scheme. Coach Greene stated the rolb needs to cover like a safety. Matthews appears to have this skill while Barwin may not.

Recall the Patriots had an opportunity to draft the multi dimensional (players the Patriots covet) Barwin but passed. That told me something.

IMO Barwin is the better pass rusher with more of Greene type attitude. Phil Savage of the Browns said Matthews is not great at one thing but he is really good at almost everything. Former Coach Ken Norton says, "Clay will be the one who starts the soonest and plays the longest."

Expect a steady starter who should be a good football player but not outstanding. Still imo too many picks to sacrifice. One third round pick--fine. But two?

[wist43]

This, in my mind, is the crux of the trade-up for Matthews. Would you rather have Matthews andmiss out not only on your third rounders (two) but also the chance you might've had to trade one of those thirds this year for a second next year?

I was a bit bummed about giving up so much to move up when the Pack could've taken Barwin, but Waldo wrote something that got me thinking: he wrote that Barwin is built like a beast but is a project - he needs serious development and does not have that "it" factor - the "he's a football player" factor that Matthews apparently has.

For some time now some Packerrats have been complaining that Thompson drafts too many "project-y" guys and not guys that have that oomph, that hardcore attitude.

Well, Ted Thompson has changed course. Wist, for one, felt Thompson was always drafting project guys who might be good in three or four years. Well, Thomnpson didn't do that this time.

So upon reflection, I'm getting used to the idea that Matthews may have been worth the price. But it is hard to watch this third round....

For the record, it is TT who has religously stated that he doesn't care about immediate impact, and that he drafts the players he feels will have the best careers - short term be damned. I just happen to believe him when he says it, you guys are want to make excuses.

That said, I do see Matthews as a project... a major project. Poppinga has proven he has all the football instincts of Nancy Pelosi, but I have my doubts as to whether Matthews can beat him out.

I expect we'll see Matthews in passing situations, but good Lord, from what I've seen of him, he was getting shoved around pretty easily by college players - how is he going to hold the point at the NFL level???

Maybe he bulks up, I assume he will, and can be an every down backer in a few years, but I don't expect to get anything out of him this year, except as a 3rd down rusher and ST's.

That too being said... to me, defense is about pressure, pressure, and more pressure - so if he can bring heat off the corner, and nothing else, I'll be okay with him, and give him time to fill out, get stronger, and mature. But at this point, he is still a major project.

[Gunakor]

This, in my mind, is the crux of the trade-up for Matthews. Would you rather have Matthews andmiss out not only on your third rounders (two) but also the chance you might've had to trade one of those thirds this year for a second next year?

I was a bit bummed about giving up so much to move up when the Pack could've taken Barwin, but Waldo wrote something that got me thinking: he wrote that Barwin is built like a beast but is a project - he needs serious development and does not have that "it" factor - the "he's a football player" factor that Matthews apparently has.

For some time now some Packerrats have been complaining that Thompson drafts too many "project-y" guys and not guys that have that oomph, that hardcore attitude.

Well, Ted Thompson has changed course. Wist, for one, felt Thompson was always drafting project guys who might be good in three or four years. Well, Thomnpson didn't do that this time.

So upon reflection, I'm getting used to the idea that Matthews may have been worth the price. But it is hard to watch this third round....

For the record, it is TT who has religously stated that he doesn't care about immediate impact, and that he drafts the players he feels will have the best careers - short term be damned. I just happen to believe him when he says it, you guys are want to make excuses.

That said, I do see Matthews as a project... a major project. Poppinga has proven he has all the football instincts of Nancy Pelosi, but I have my doubts as to whether Matthews can beat him out.

I expect we'll see Matthews in passing situations, but good Lord, from what I've seen of him, he was getting shoved around pretty easily by college players - how is he going to hold the point at the NFL level???

Maybe he bulks up, I assume he will, and can be an every down backer in a few years, but I don't expect to get anything out of him this year, except as a 3rd down rusher and ST's.

That too being said... to me, defense is about pressure, pressure, and more pressure - so if he can bring heat off the corner, and nothing else, I'll be okay with him, and give him time to fill out, get stronger, and mature. But at this point, he is still a major project.

Most 3-4 OLB's are. Very few come out of college ready to play WOLB in a 3-4 at the NFL level. Either you get DE's that can't cover, or OLB's that don't rush often. But I don't see this as a MAJOR project. I think he's more polished at the position than most. A year, maybe two, and he'll be the regular starter out there.

[Lurker64]

Matthews could start right away, as his skillset is what you want for the position he plays. Barwin couldn't; as smart as he is this would be his second position switch in two years.. Both have similar upside.

[Packnut]

This, in my mind, is the crux of the trade-up for Matthews. Would you rather have Matthews andmiss out not only on your third rounders (two) but also the chance you might've had to trade one of those thirds this year for a second next year?

I was a bit bummed about giving up so much to move up when the Pack could've taken Barwin, but Waldo wrote something that got me thinking: he wrote that Barwin is built like a beast but is a project - he needs serious development and does not have that "it" factor - the "he's a football player" factor that Matthews apparently has.

For some time now some Packerrats have been complaining that Thompson drafts too many "project-y" guys and not guys that have that oomph, that hardcore attitude.

Well, Ted Thompson has changed course. Wist, for one, felt Thompson was always drafting project guys who might be good in three or four years. Well, Thomnpson didn't do that this time.

So upon reflection, I'm getting used to the idea that Matthews may have been worth the price. But it is hard to watch this third round....

For the record, it is TT who has religously stated that he doesn't care about immediate impact, and that he drafts the players he feels will have the best careers - short term be damned. I just happen to believe him when he says it, you guys are want to make excuses.

That said, I do see Matthews as a project... a major project. Poppinga has proven he has all the football instincts of Nancy Pelosi, but I have my doubts as to whether Matthews can beat him out.

I expect we'll see Matthews in passing situations, but good Lord, from what I've seen of him, he was getting shoved around pretty easily by college players - how is he going to hold the point at the NFL level???

Maybe he bulks up, I assume he will, and can be an every down backer in a few years, but I don't expect to get anything out of him this year, except as a 3rd down rusher and ST's.

That too being said... to me, defense is about pressure, pressure, and more pressure - so if he can bring heat off the corner, and nothing else, I'll be okay with him, and give him time to fill out, get stronger, and mature. But at this point, he is still a major project.

I would totally dis-agree with Mathews being a project. I watched quite a few USC games this year and Mathews by far was better than the other 2 Trojan LB's. The guy just makes plays and even when he did'nt, he was there in the picture.

OLB in the 3-4 is an easy position learning wise. It's also a position where a rookie can have an impact.

Lastly, your statement about Mathews not being able to beat out Poppinga is just plain unadulterated BULLSHIT! You name the wager my friend and I'm in.

[rbaloha1]

A major reason for drafting Matthews at this slot and giving up multiple picks is he is NFL ready. This seems to be the consensus in NFL circles.

However despite the apparent skillset still question the physicality as opposed to Barwin.

[run pMc]

even if Poppinga somehow wins the starting spot in TC, I have a feeling he'll eventually lose it to Matthews mid-season.

Wasn't thrilled with giving up so much for the pick, but am coming around to it...and I agree the D needs some guys with fire and attitude. I thought the team had enough depth-needs that TT would keep the picks. If Raji and Matthews end up as quality starters then it probably doesn't matter.

[Gunakor]

Edgar Bennett now at the podium on packers.com


edit: wrong thread. sorry.

[texaspackerbacker]

I don't know.

I jumped on the bandwagon immediately with Raji, even though I've been saying OT all along. But the Mathews deal? I just don't know.

When I heard the terms, though, it was like a kick in the balls. I kept checking around thinking it must be a mistake--but it wasn't.

I have been saying we didn't have any strong needs--other than a NT to rotate, so I suppose throwing away a 2nd and two 3rds isn't that bad--not as kicks in the balls go.

I assume Mathews starts opposite Kampman? Assuming he does get injured or bomb out? I'm still shaking my head.

[mission]

I'm still shaking my head.

All by your lonesome on that one ... that's normal though.

[Gunakor]

I don't know.

I jumped on the bandwagon immediately with Raji, even though I've been saying OT all along. But the Mathews deal? I just don't know.

When I heard the terms, though, it was like a kick in the balls. I kept checking around thinking it must be a mistake--but it wasn't.

I have been saying we didn't have any strong needs--other than a NT to rotate, so I suppose throwing away a 2nd and two 3rds isn't that bad--not as kicks in the balls go.

I assume Mathews starts opposite Kampman? Assuming he does get injured or bomb out? I'm still shaking my head.

Matthews reminds me of the guy coaching him. If he becomes that player it is well worth the trade.

[texaspackerbacker]

I got the impression Mathews is a laid back California surfer boy-type--not a WWF warrior type like Greene.

I hope he will be good; I think he will be good. It's just a really high price to pay.

[bobblehead]

AJ Smith was quoted on the JSO PI section "He is special" That was it. I love AJ as a talent evaluator, but from that one line quote I wonder...was he being sarcastic?

edit: my bad, that was regarding BJ Raji. Still I have to wonder.

[The Leaper]

That said, I do see Matthews as a project... a major project.

I wouldn't call anyone who comes from a family as deeply steeped in the NFL as Matthews a "major project". This kid has been around the NFL since he popped out from between his mother's legs.

Toss on top of that the fact that Pete Carroll and his defensive coaching staff at USC are TOP NOTCH in terms of developing players that transition well to the NFL, and I have very little doubt that Matthews already has a very strong level of understanding and will possess a better than average learning curve.

I don't get your position at all Wist.