09 defensive depth

[KYPack]

Well, this is how we are lookin' on D after the draft. Some of these guys will be in other spots but this is a starting point. Feel free to criticize & discuss.

DEFENSIVE DEPTH CHART

LDE
Johnny Jolly
Justin Harrell


NT
Ryan Pickett
B.J. Raji
Fred Bledsoe
A Toribio
Brian Soi

RDE
Cullen Jenkins
Jarius Wynn
Alfred Malone
Michael Montgomery

LOLB
A Kampman
Brad Jones
Jeremy Thompson

LILB
A Hawk
D Bishop
S Havner

RILB
Nick Barnett
D Lansanha
B Chillar

ROLB
B Poppinga
Clay Matthews
J Hunter

RCB
Al Harris
Tramone Williams
Jarrett Bush
Joe Porter

FS
Nick Collins
S Rouse
C Peprah

SS
A Bigby
A Smith

LCB
C Woodson
W Blackmon
P Lee
Brandon Underwood

Also invited to rookie tryouts this weekend were a couple long shot DE's, Rhyan Anderson and Joe Lardinois. Lardinois is probably a 3-4 OLB.

You could have Pickett and Raji on the field at the same time. I'd think Raji would be the DE, but I really don't know. I figured Matthews on the right side. Jarius Wynn could well be the LDE, for balance if nothing else. Brandon Underwood was a great pick-up. He's a decent corner, a jolting safety and a ST terror. A good kid who loves to mix it up, in addition to being a ballhawk. Both Peprah and Bush will have to step it up to keep this kid off the roster.

Well, let's argue.

[HarveyWallbangers]

RDE
Cullen Jenkins
Jarius Wynn
Alfred Malone
Michael Montgomery

Not all of the picks will make the team, I'd put Wynn at the bottom of the RDE depth chart.


LOLB
A Kampman
Brad Jones
Jeremy Thompson

I'd put Thompson ahead of Jones.


RILB
Nick Barnett
D Lansanha
B Chillar

I'd put Chillar second here. I suspect his versatility and affordable contract makes him a favorite to make the team.


ROLB
B Poppinga
Clay Matthews
J Hunter

Matthews #1. Any chance Poppinga goes on the inside?



LCB
C Woodson
W Blackmon
P Lee
Brandon Underwood

LCB or RCB for Underwood? I would assume he's higher than Porter on the depth chart.

[KYPack]

Yeah, I agree with most of your changes. I also didn't include that Willie Williams guy you dug up in a late announcement. Is he a RILB, or isn't it worth the work?

[Packnut]

If Teddy has truly seen the light, it's time to admit he fucked up on his evaluation of Poppinga. Brady has no value and it's time to show him the door along with Bush.

At some point, ya gotta cut the dead weight from your team.

[HarveyWallbangers]

If Teddy has truly seen the light, it's time to admit he fucked up on his evaluation of Poppinga. Brady has no value and it's time to show him the door along with Bush.

At some point, ya gotta cut the dead weight from your team.

There are worse backup LBs to have than Poppinga. Plus, he was always pretty good on special teams before he became a starter. Bush hasn't shown much on defense (although he has versatility), but have you seen him as a gunner on special teams? The guy is good, and that's why other teams were interested in signing him. I wouldn't count those guys out yet.

[packers11]

Poppinga is average at best, but provides decent depth... Esp in the 3-4, you need a lot of lb's and they all can't be allstars... Poppinga is overpayed, but we have no backup better than him right now and our cap is in really good shape...

[LL2]

I wonder what will happen with Popps, Hunter, Bishop, Chillar, and Thompson. I like Popps and Chillar the best and most likely those two will remain ahead of Matthews for a while, but some of the others are going to become expendable.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I wonder what will happen with Popps, Hunter, Bishop, Chillar, and Thompson. I like Popps and Chillar the best and most likely those two will remain ahead of Matthews for a while, but some of the others are going to become expendable.

Well, 3-4 teams often keep up to 10 LBs, so I wouldn't write any of them off yet. It should really help their STs though.

[mraynrand]

Bush hasn't shown much on defense (although he has versatility), but have you seen him as a gunner on special teams? The guy is good, and that's why other teams were interested in signing him. I wouldn't count those guys out yet.

It's nice to know there are others that see this value of Bush. The guy is almost unblockable at gunner. You would like him to make more plays on the ball, but it's remarkable to consistently see him reaching the ball or the ball carrier without a blocker in sight time after time. The penalties stick out of course, but other d backs are going to have to look a good deal better at their position to knock him off the team. Thompson had to learn from the mistake he made with White last year that you have to make concessions to your special teams at the bottom of your active roster.

[wist43]

Poppinga is average at best, but provides decent depth... Esp in the 3-4, you need a lot of lb's and they all can't be allstars... Poppinga is overpayed, but we have no backup better than him right now and our cap is in really good shape...

Fully expect that Pop will have to be the starter there for at least a year... while he lacks instincts, he is physical, and can take on and hold the point.

Matthews on the other hand... I only expect him to be able to offer pass rush this year. He's very light in his lower body, and gets shoved around pretty easily... he may be able to press the corner, but on run downs, NFL lineman are going to kick his ass until he has at least a year in an NFL weight program and adds about 10 lbs.

[rbaloha1]

If Teddy has truly seen the light, it's time to admit he fucked up on his evaluation of Poppinga. Brady has no value and it's time to show him the door along with Bush.

At some point, ya gotta cut the dead weight from your team.

Great special team players. That is it. Not position players.

[rbaloha1]

[quote=packers11]
Matthews on the other hand... I only expect him to be able to offer pass rush this year. He's very light in his lower body, and gets shoved around pretty easily... he may be able to press the corner, but on run downs, NFL lineman are going to kick his ass until he has at least a year in an NFL weight program and adds about 10 lbs.

Matthews was drafted to start. Mentally the guy is ready. Agree with the physicality part.

One can tell Matthews body is a beefed-up safety. Possesses great feet and slices through blockers.

IMO USC players are difficult to evaluate since they are surrounded by great talent which covers up player's weaknesses.

Must trust TT on this one.

[Gunakor]

You know, 6 of our projected starting front 7 are first round draft picks (Harrell, Raji, Pickett, Matthews, Hawk, Barnett). The only one that isn't (Kampman) has been a Pro Bowler for each of the last few years. 1 of our 4 DB's was a first round pick too (Woodson), and he along with 2 others back there (Harris, Collins) are also Pro Bowlers. With the All-Star coaching staff we now have directing them, if we aren't lighting the world on fire defensively in the next year or two...

Tough to gague the depth at each position, given the switch in defensive alignment, but the starting lineup on defense looks phenomenal.

[Fritz]

Poppinga is average at best, but provides decent depth... Esp in the 3-4, you need a lot of lb's and they all can't be allstars... Poppinga is overpayed, but we have no backup better than him right now and our cap is in really good shape...

Fully expect that Pop will have to be the starter there for at least a year... while he lacks instincts, he is physical, and can take on and hold the point.

Matthews on the other hand... I only expect him to be able to offer pass rush this year. He's very light in his lower body, and gets shoved around pretty easily... he may be able to press the corner, but on run downs, NFL lineman are going to kick his ass until he has at least a year in an NFL weight program and adds about 10 lbs.

I wouldn't like anybody, not even a guy, saying that about me....

[Guiness]

Without looking, I can't remember exactly what changes were made to the rules regarding ST's. I remember it was something about limiting the size of the wedge, which you would think would make the gunner's job a bit easier. Do the rule changes increase or decrease Bush's value?

Popp and Mathews. Mathews is apparently an absolute nut on the field, in the mold of Kevin Greene. As is Popp. I'm excited to see how those three manics do in their role.

[Guiness]

[quote=packers11]
Matthews on the other hand... I only expect him to be able to offer pass rush this year. He's very light in his lower body, and gets shoved around pretty easily... he may be able to press the corner, but on run downs, NFL lineman are going to kick his ass until he has at least a year in an NFL weight program and adds about 10 lbs.

I wouldn't like anybody, not even a guy, saying that about me....

At least he didn't say the dreaded lacks thickness.

[mraynrand]

[quote=packers11]
Matthews on the other hand... I only expect him to be able to offer pass rush this year. He's very light in his lower body, and gets shoved around pretty easily... he may be able to press the corner, but on run downs, NFL lineman are going to kick his ass until he has at least a year in an NFL weight program and adds about 10 lbs.

I wouldn't like anybody, not even a guy, saying that about me....

At least he didn't say the dreaded lacks thickness.

size matters.

[KYPack]

Without looking, I can't remember exactly what changes were made to the rules regarding ST's. I remember it was something about limiting the size of the wedge, which you would think would make the gunner's job a bit easier. Do the rule changes increase or decrease Bush's value?


The rules committee limited the size (there's that word again) of the wedge. Most teams used a 3 man wedge. The new rules limits the wedge to two guys. There will be changes, but whose role will be limited remains to be seen.

The gunners on kick-offs are the two widest players (called L5 and R5) nearest the sidelines. Their job is to fly to the ball. The two guys inside them (L4 & R4) usually cross paths and have wide contain. The two goofs closest to the kicker are the wedge busters. Rarely do both of 'em hit the wedge on the same play. One guy hammers the wedge and does his disruption. The other guy loops and helps the remaining 4 players (L2&3, R2&3) get the ball carrier.

I doubt teams will now only use 1 guy as a buster. I'd still have L1 and R1 as the hammers. If anything, good gunners like Bush will have even more importance. This new rulr will NOT reduce injuries on the craziest play in sports, but it will bring change.

[KYPack]

Made some changes per Harve's suggestions. I didn't start Matthews, but yeah that could happen. Chillar should have been listed over Lasagna, that was a scew-up on my part. I also moved Underwood. You guys will love this kid. He can run, play corner and safety well and brings the wood on ST. They may put Wynn at LDE for balance.

DEFENSIVE DEPTH CHART

LDE
Johnny Jolly
Justin Harrell


NT
Ryan Pickett
B.J. Raji
Fred Bledsoe
A Toribio
Brian Soi

RDE
Cullen Jenkins
Alfred Malone
Michael Montgomery
Jarius Wynn

LOLB
A Kampman
Jeremy Thompson
Brad Jones


LILB
A Hawk
D Bishop
S Havner

RILB
Nick Barnett
B Chillar
D Lansanha

ROLB
B Poppinga
Clay Matthews
J Hunter

RCB
Al Harris
Tramon Williams
Jarrett Bush
Brandon Underwood
Joe Porter

FS
Nick Collins
S Rouse
C Peprah

SS
A Bigby
A Smith

LCB
C Woodson
W Blackmon
P Lee

[HarveyWallbangers]

Battles:

HB - Kregg Lumpkin, Deshawn Wynn, and Tyrell Sutton for one HB spot (outside shot at two HB spots)

FB - Quinn Johnson, Korey Hall, John Kuhn for two FB spots.

WR - Ruvell Martin, Jamarko Simmons, JaRon Harris, Brett Swain, etc. for one WR spot (outside shot at two WR spots).

TE - Tory Humphrey and Evan Moore for one TE spot.

OL - Allen Barbre, Breno Giacomini, Scott Wells, T.J. Lang, Jamon Meredith, Duke Preston, Tony Moll for four or five OL spots.

DL - Alfred Malone, Mike Montgomery and Jarius Wynn for one DE spot.

LB - Brandon Chillar, Brady Poppinga, Jeremy Thompson, Jason Hunter, Desmond Bishop, Spencer Havner, Danny Lansanah, Brad Jones for four to six LB spots.

CB - Jarret Bush, Brandon Underwood, Anthony Smith, Aaron Rouse, and Charlie Peprah for two or three DB spots.

[3irty1]

Battles:

HB - Kregg Lumpkin, Deshawn Wynn, and Tyrell Sutton for one HB spot (outside shot at two HB spots)

FB - Quinn Johnson, Korey Hall, John Kuhn for two FB spots.

WR - Ruvell Martin, Jamarko Simmons, JaRon Harris, Brett Swain, etc. for one WR spot (outside shot at two WR spots).

TE - Tory Humphrey and Evan Moore for one TE spot.

OL - Allen Barbre, Breno Giacomini, Scott Wells, T.J. Lang, Jamon Meredith, Duke Preston, Tony Moll for four or five OL spots.

DL - Alfred Malone, Mike Montgomery and Jarius Wynn for one DE spot.

LB - Brandon Chillar, Brady Poppinga, Jeremy Thompson, Jason Hunter, Desmond Bishop, Spencer Havner, Danny Lansanah, Brad Jones for four to six LB spots.

CB - Jarret Bush, Brandon Underwood, Anthony Smith, Aaron Rouse, and Charlie Peprah for two or three DB spots.

I wouldn't count Blackmon out of that CB battle. Especially if Ruvell gets beaten out by someone like JaRon Harris with some wheels.

[Guiness]

Battles:
FB - Quinn Johnson, Korey Hall, John Kuhn for two FB spots.
I like that group. Do we go with 2 though? Unless there are different roles, I don' see it.



LB - Brandon Chillar, Brady Poppinga, Jeremy Thompson, Jason Hunter, Desmond Bishop, Spencer Havner, Danny Lansanah, Brad Jones for four to six LB spots.

I don't see Chillar as being in a battle. He played well last year, and has a reasonable contract.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Harvey, you got to include Andy Brodell fighting for a WR spot. (It's more like others will be fighting him for the spot.)

[HarveyWallbangers]

I don't see Chillar as being in a battle. He played well last year, and has a reasonable contract.

I actually agree with you. I'd also put Jeremy Thompson in the safe group, and Hunter may have a better shot then most think--because of special teams.

[jmbarnes101]

We're starting to get battles for spots among guys I really don't want to see cut but that's a good thing right?

I think Moll, Wells, Swain, Montgomery, Peprah, Porter, Havner, and Lansanah are gone for sure but the rest should be really interesting.

[KYPack]

We're starting to get battles for spots among guys I really don't want to see cut but that's a good thing right?

I think Moll, Wells, Swain, Montgomery, Peprah, Porter, Havner, and Lansanah are gone for sure but the rest should be really interesting.

He's the starting center, fer crissakes.

Anything can happen, but he's not "for sure" to be cut.

[Joemailman]

Offensive Line: (9) Locks: Clifton, Colledge, Spitz, Sitton, Giacomini, Preston, Lang, Meredith/ One Of These Guys: Moll, Wells, Barbre

Quarterback: (3) Rodgers, Brohm, Flynn

Running Back: (3) Locks: Grant, Jackson/ One of these guys: Lumpkin, Wynn, Sutton

Fullback: (2) Two of these guys: Johnson, Hall, Kuhn

Tight End (3) Locks: Lee, Finley/ One of these guys: Humphrey, Moore

Wide Receiver (5) Locks: Driver, Jennings, Nelson, Jones/ One of these guys: Martin, Simmons

Defensive Line: (6) Locks: Raji, Pickett, Jenkins/ Three Of these guys: Harrell, Jolly, Montgomery, Malone, Wynn

Linebacker: (9) Locks: Hawk, Barnett, Kampman, Matthews, Poppings, Thompson/ Three of These Guys Bishop, Chillar, Hunter, Lansanah, Jones

Secondary: (9) Locks: Woodson, Harris, Bigby, Collins, Williams, Smith/ Three of these guys: Bush, Lee, Peprah, Rouse, Underwood

Special Teams: (4) Crosby, Goode, Blackmon/ One of these guys: Kapinos, Brooks

[vince]

You forgot Barbre Joe, who I hope is a lock.

I wouldn't be surprised to see 10 o-linemen and only 2 tight ends this year.

[Joemailman]

You're right, I did forget Barbre, (now fixed) who I do not consider a lock. I do like his chances better than Wells or Moll though.

[mission]

Offensive Line: (9) Locks: Clifton, Colledge, Spitz, Sitton, Giacomini, Preston, Lang, Meredith/ One Of These Guys: Moll, Wells, Barbre

Quarterback: (3) Rodgers, Brohm, Flynn

Running Back: (3) Locks: Grant, Jackson/ One of these guys: Lumpkin, Wynn, Sutton

Fullback: (2) Two of these guys: Johnson, Hall, Kuhn

Tight End (3) Locks: Lee, Finley/ One of these guys: Humphrey, Moore

Wide Receiver (5) Locks: Driver, Jennings, Nelson, Jones/ One of these guys: Martin, Simmons

Defensive Line: (6) Locks: Raji, Pickett, Jenkins/ Three Of these guys: Harrell, Jolly, Montgomery, Malone, Wynn

Linebacker: (9) Locks: Hawk, Barnett, Kampman, Matthews, Poppings, Thompson/ Three of These Guys Bishop, Chillar, Hunter, Lansanah, Jones

Secondary: (9) Locks: Woodson, Harris, Bigby, Collins, Williams, Smith/ Three of these guys: Bush, Lee, Peprah, Rouse, Underwood

Special Teams: (4) Crosby, Goode, Blackmon/ One of these guys: Kapinos, Brooks

Good post, thanks. Really paints a clear picture ... homerism aside (is that possible?), I think we're in really good shape. Some guys are going to end up cut that make other NFL rosters.

[Gunakor]

Offensive Line: (9) Locks: Clifton, Colledge, Spitz, Sitton, Giacomini, Preston, Lang, Meredith/ One Of These Guys: Moll, Wells, Barbre

Quarterback: (3) Rodgers, Brohm, Flynn

Running Back: (3) Locks: Grant, Jackson/ One of these guys: Lumpkin, Wynn, Sutton

Fullback: (2) Two of these guys: Johnson, Hall, Kuhn

Tight End (3) Locks: Lee, Finley/ One of these guys: Humphrey, Moore

Wide Receiver (5) Locks: Driver, Jennings, Nelson, Jones/ One of these guys: Martin, Simmons

Defensive Line: (6) Locks: Raji, Pickett, Jenkins/ Three Of these guys: Harrell, Jolly, Montgomery, Malone, Wynn

Linebacker: (9) Locks: Hawk, Barnett, Kampman, Matthews, Poppings, Thompson/ Three of These Guys Bishop, Chillar, Hunter, Lansanah, Jones

Secondary: (9) Locks: Woodson, Harris, Bigby, Collins, Williams, Smith/ Three of these guys: Bush, Lee, Peprah, Rouse, Underwood

Special Teams: (4) Crosby, Goode, Blackmon/ One of these guys: Kapinos, Brooks

I think Harrell is probably still a lock, for one more year at least. I think Thompson and McCarthy are interested in seeing what he can do from the end in a 3-4.

[Joemailman]

I don't consider Harrell a lock because the last I heard, he was still not in the strength/conditioning program because he was still rehabilitating his back. I think he's a lock if he's healthy.

I also didn't call Jolly a lock because he could be convicted/suspended. He's probably a lock if available.

[mission]

He's a first round draft pick. I see him being a "lock" for at least one more year unless the doctors think he's just NEVER going to get better. I think it would have to be a pretty catastrophic physical situation for that to be the case...

[Joemailman]

Sure, but If they need to IR him for another year, he wouldn't be part of the 53 man roster. I agree he doesn't get released as long as the doctors think he has a chance to play in the near future.

[BobDobbs]

Offensive Line: (9) Locks: Clifton, Colledge, Spitz, Sitton, Giacomini, Preston, Lang, Meredith/ One Of These Guys: Moll, Wells, Barbre


Linebacker: (9) Locks: Hawk, Barnett, Kampman, Matthews, Poppings, Thompson/ Three of These Guys Bishop, Chillar, Hunter, Lansanah, Jones

Secondary: (9) Locks: Woodson, Harris, Bigby, Collins, Williams, Smith/ Three of these guys: Bush, Lee, Peprah, Rouse, Underwood



That's a great list. It's so early that everything is written in pencil. But, I don't think that Preston, Lang, or Meredith are locks, and Giacomini is probable but not a lock. I don't think we even gave Preston a signing bonus. The drafted rookies obviously have a pretty good chance, but Barbre or Wells could beat those guys out for a roster spot. Conversely they could beat out Giancomini for a roster spot.

Also, I think Linebacker is the most up in the air position and only the top four guys are safe. The defense is still in development and we don't even know what they are going to ask these guys to do until we see a game. Poppinga is challenged at coverage and his ability to rush the passer so far has been mythological. Thompson looks like a good athlete but now he has to change positions so who knows how he plays standing up. I'm cheering for Hunter, because I think he has the body type to be a force rushing off the edge. He doesn't have Poppinga's intensity though. I don't think anyone does.

[/quote]

[Joemailman]

I think Lang and Meredith are virtual locks unless they turn out to be completely useless. Their chances are better than Barbre's simply because they haven't yet disappointed the coaches as Barbre did last year. The thing with Wells is that partly due to his contract he probably needs to win the starting C spot to make the team. The rookies and Preston don't.

At linebacker, I think Thompson is a virtual lock because in addition to being a linebacker, he can slide over to DE when the Packers line up in a 4-3. TT and MM love those versatile guys.

[vince]

Not sure Clifton is an absolute lock. If he struggles early and shows signs that his kneeds aren't all there, and if one or more of the young guys like Lang come on strong (like Sitton did last year before injury), it's conceivable that Clifton could be a casualty because of his combination of injury, age, and price tag.

[BobDobbs]

I think Lang and Meredith are virtual locks unless they turn out to be completely useless. Their chances are better than Barbre's simply because they haven't yet disappointed the coaches as Barbre did last year. The thing with Wells is that partly due to his contract he probably needs to win the starting C spot to make the team. The rookies and Preston don't.

At linebacker, I think Thompson is a virtual lock because in addition to being a linebacker, he can slide over to DE when the Packers line up in a 4-3. TT and MM love those versatile guys.

Good point about Thompson that helps him alot.

Wells' cap number last year was 1.7 mil. It's a little much for a backup, but I don't think that it dooms him. I think the thing that hurts him most is that he only plays center. In past years its been really important for back OL to play multiple positions.

[DonHutson]

Battles:
FB - Quinn Johnson, Korey Hall, John Kuhn for two FB spots.

Am I remembering correctly that Kuhn's tender was somewhere in the neighborhood of $1M? If that's the case, barring catastrophic injury to Johnson or Hall, I declare this battle over.

[Lurker64]

But, I don't think that Preston, Lang, or Meredith are locks, and Giacomini is probable but not a lock. I don't think we even gave Preston a signing bonus. The drafted rookies obviously have a pretty good chance, but Barbre or Wells could beat those guys out for a roster spot.

I think it's very probable that Preston earns a roster spot. If Spitz beats out Wells (as expected) for the starting C job, Wells is going to be too expensive to keep on as a backup and Preston is the only other C on the roster. If Wells isn't starting, Preston makes the roster if for no other reason than Preston is a C/G and Wells is a C only. The backup center for almost every team is a guy who can play multiple positions, simply because roster spots are valuable.

[CaptainKickass]

invited to rookie tryouts this weekend were a couple long shot DE's, Rhyan Anderson and Joe Lardinois. Lardinois is probably a 3-4 OLB

I disagree.


Lardinois is probably a lard-ass from Illinois



.

[pbmax]

Does anyone have a good idea on Matthews size/weight? I thought I had read, and from youtube highlights he looks 230 max.

But he is 6' 3", so 240 on that frame might look 230 thin.

[Joemailman]

He was listed at 240 at the combine. In an interview at the Senior Bowl though, he said he normally plays between 245-250, but he was planning on losing a little weight before the combine.

[jmbarnes101]

We're starting to get battles for spots among guys I really don't want to see cut but that's a good thing right?

I think Moll, Wells, Swain, Montgomery, Peprah, Porter, Havner, and Lansanah are gone for sure but the rest should be really interesting.

He's the starting center, fer crissakes.

Anything can happen, but he's not "for sure" to be cut.

I know what you mean but he can't play any other positions and our starting line is better with Spitz at Center. Yeah, we could keep him but I think he loses out on the numbers game and they may try to trade him for a draft pick next year.

[MJZiggy]

invited to rookie tryouts this weekend were a couple long shot DE's, Rhyan Anderson and Joe Lardinois. Lardinois is probably a 3-4 OLB

I disagree.


Lardinois is probably a lard-ass from Illinois



.

Am I the only one who got that?

[KYPack]

We're starting to get battles for spots among guys I really don't want to see cut but that's a good thing right?

I think Moll, Wells, Swain, Montgomery, Peprah, Porter, Havner, and Lansanah are gone for sure but the rest should be really interesting.

He's the starting center, fer crissakes.

Anything can happen, but he's not "for sure" to be cut.

I know what you mean but he can't play any other positions and our starting line is better with Spitz at Center. Yeah, we could keep him but I think he loses out on the numbers game and they may try to trade him for a draft pick next year.

I gotta give a BZZZZT on this point also. Spitz can play center, but our line is not better when Spitz is snapping. In fact, Spitz had trouble with the gun snap, cranking a bad one 3 games in a row when he was the starting center. Wells can play guard, he just isn't very good at it. In fact, Wells is as poor a guard as Spitz is a center.

I think Wells won't be cut and he will start this season at C.

[Joemailman]

Spitz has had a problem with some snaps, but I've felt that the OL as a unit plays better with Spitz at C. Don't have any numbers to back that up, just my general sense. I get the feeling that MM wants Spitz to win the battle for the starting spot, but he will have to win it. I don't think it'll be handed to him.

[Gunakor]

Spitz has had a problem with some snaps, but I've felt that the OL as a unit plays better with Spitz at C. Don't have any numbers to back that up, just my general sense. I get the feeling that MM wants Spitz to win the battle for the starting spot, but he will have to win it. I don't think it'll be handed to him.

Wells is very solid with his line calls also. I think I'd be okay with either of them starting, but to be honest, I'd rather Wells wins it.

[swede]

invited to rookie tryouts this weekend were a couple long shot DE's, Rhyan Anderson and Joe Lardinois. Lardinois is probably a 3-4 OLB

I disagree.


Lardinois is probably a lard-ass from Illinois



.

Actually, he's this year's local kid. He played on the Green Bay Notre Dame HS team that won state a few years back. He'll get to meet the guys, run through a few drills, and let the dream live on for a few more glorious days.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Actually, he's this year's local kid. He played on the Green Bay Notre Dame HS team that won state a few years back. He'll get to meet the guys, run through a few drills, and let the dream live on for a few more glorious days.

He actually backed out and will get a tryout with some other team. He said the Packers told them that they are looking at him as an OLB. He only played DE at North Dakota State, and said he felt more comfortable there. Another team offered him a tryout as a 4-3 DE, so he took that instead.

[CaptainKickass]

invited to rookie tryouts this weekend were a couple long shot DE's, Rhyan Anderson and Joe Lardinois. Lardinois is probably a 3-4 OLB

I disagree.


Lardinois is probably a lard-ass from Illinois



.

Am I the only one who got that?


MJ - I really figured that one was a slam dunk. But apparently the answer to your question is a resounding YES

I have apparently overestimated the average humor level of the PackerRats.

OR.....

Ziggy - you and I are just straight retarded.


:rs:

[HarveyWallbangers]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/43977697.html

According to Bedard, Carter is going to visit the Lions and the Packers are still on Carter's radar. He may visit in the next week or so.

[wist43]

invited to rookie tryouts this weekend were a couple long shot DE's, Rhyan Anderson and Joe Lardinois. Lardinois is probably a 3-4 OLB

I disagree.


Lardinois is probably a lard-ass from Illinois



.

Am I the only one who got that?


MJ - I really figured that one was a slam dunk. But apparently the answer to your question is a resounding YES

I have apparently overestimated the average humor level of the PackerRats.

OR.....

Ziggy - you and I are just straight retarded.


:rs:

No, I got it too... good stuff CKA :lol:

[HarveyWallbangers]

How do you feel about each group?

DL Jenkins, Pickett, Raji, Jolly, Harrell, Wynn, Montgomery, Malone

LB Kampman, Hawk, Barnett, Matthews, Chillar, Poppinga, Thompson, Bishop, Jones, Havner, Lansanah

DB Woodson, Harris, Williams, Lee, Blackmon, Underwood, Bush, Collins, Bigby, Smith, Rouse, Peprah

Kind of weird with how poorly the front 7 played last year, but I'm more worried about the secondary. Getting Jenkins back, maybe having Pickett and Harrell at full health, and adding Raji, makes me feel like the DL group can do a good job. Plus, we need one less starter and one less quality backup to make a good rotation.

We need Barnett healthy and Hawk to regain full health, but I think the LB corps is going to surprise people.

We have age in the secondary, a question mark at second safety, and didn't add much that group. We really need Bigby to play like he did in 2007 and for the old guys to hang on another year.

[Freak Out]

How do you feel about each group?

DL Jenkins, Pickett, Raji, Jolly, Harrell, Wynn, Montgomery, Malone

LB Kampman, Hawk, Barnett, Matthews, Chillar, Poppinga, Thompson, Bishop, Jones, Havner, Lansanah

DB Woodson, Harris, Williams, Lee, Blackmon, Underwood, Bush, Collins, Bigby, Smith, Rouse, Peprah

Kind of weird with how poorly the front 7 played last year, but I'm more worried about the secondary. Getting Jenkins back, maybe having Pickett and Harrell at full health, and adding Raji, makes me feel like the DL group can do a good job. Plus, we need one less starter and one less quality backup to make a good rotation.

We need Barnett healthy and Hawk to regain full health, but I think the LB corps is going to surprise people.

We have age in the secondary, a question mark at second safety, and didn't add much that group. We really need Bigby to play like he did in 2007 and for the old guys to hang on another year.

We "should" have a good/great front seven this year if they can stay healthy and pick up Capers plan and you are correct to focus on the defensive backfield as the potential weak link in the deal...even with the experience of Woodson and Harris. Has TW even agreed to play yet? Collins should be ok but will Bigby play like a flying lobotomy? can Rouse step it up and take over a safety spot?

[Scott Campbell]

How do you feel about each group?

DL Jenkins, Pickett, Raji, Jolly, Harrell, Wynn, Montgomery, Malone

LB Kampman, Hawk, Barnett, Matthews, Chillar, Poppinga, Thompson, Bishop, Jones, Havner, Lansanah

DB Woodson, Harris, Williams, Lee, Blackmon, Underwood, Bush, Collins, Bigby, Smith, Rouse, Peprah

Kind of weird with how poorly the front 7 played last year, but I'm more worried about the secondary. Getting Jenkins back, maybe having Pickett and Harrell at full health, and adding Raji, makes me feel like the DL group can do a good job. Plus, we need one less starter and one less quality backup to make a good rotation.

We need Barnett healthy and Hawk to regain full health, but I think the LB corps is going to surprise people.

We have age in the secondary, a question mark at second safety, and didn't add much that group. We really need Bigby to play like he did in 2007 and for the old guys to hang on another year.


Great post. I've been thinking the same thing. Our strength from last year on D is now our biggest question mark.

[DonHutson]

To answer Harvey's question, I'd still like to see them add a Kevin Carter or Vonnie Holliday to the DE group precisely because I don't think we can rely on Harrell or Jenkins to stay healthy. We're into "fool me three times" territory with those two, so there's no excuse for not having adequate depth. If Montgomery or Wynn plays balls out and bumps the new vet off the roster, so be it but we need to be prepared there.

LB's look pretty solid to me. Best case scenario, if they all take to the new system and Matthews is legit from day one, that could be one of the top LB units in the league. But they shouldn't be any worse than above average.

I agree there are questions in the secondary, certainly age is a concern on the corners. I need one more great year out of Collins to prove to me he's the real deal. That said, I think most teams would be happy to have three pro bowlers back there.

[Partial]

How do you feel about each group?

DL Jenkins, Pickett, Raji, Jolly, Harrell, Wynn, Montgomery, Malone

LB Kampman, Hawk, Barnett, Matthews, Chillar, Poppinga, Thompson, Bishop, Jones, Havner, Lansanah

DB Woodson, Harris, Williams, Lee, Blackmon, Underwood, Bush, Collins, Bigby, Smith, Rouse, Peprah

Kind of weird with how poorly the front 7 played last year, but I'm more worried about the secondary. Getting Jenkins back, maybe having Pickett and Harrell at full health, and adding Raji, makes me feel like the DL group can do a good job. Plus, we need one less starter and one less quality backup to make a good rotation.

We need Barnett healthy and Hawk to regain full health, but I think the LB corps is going to surprise people.

We have age in the secondary, a question mark at second safety, and didn't add much that group. We really need Bigby to play like he did in 2007 and for the old guys to hang on another year.

Lots of talent, no doubt. You've hit the questions basically on the head. They're going to be very close to rebuilding the secondary a year from now, so here's hoping they can blast through their window while they have Chuck.

[wist43]

I don't agree at all that there is "a lot" of talent in that front 7...

While I love the Raji pick, and am hopeful of Jones and Matthews, you're still looking at a gaggle of pedestrian guys, and the best player of the bunch, Kampman, is going to be miscast as a LB.

Barnett and Hawk are not going to suddenly become good pass rushers... deception born out of the 3-4 may get them home from time to time, but they aren't going to beat anyone man-on-man. Poppinga, while he's tough and physcial, simply doesn't have the instincts to be a full-time starter in the NFL, IMO.

Capers has his work cut out for him, that is for sure.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Capers has his work cut out for him, that is for sure.

Boo! Bring back the new wist.

[Scott Campbell]

While I love the Raji pick, and am hopeful of Jones and Matthews, you're still looking at a gaggle of pedestrian guys, and the best player of the bunch, Kampman, is going to be miscast as a LB.




Kampman has been the most productive player of the bunch. But I think a healthy Cullen Jenkins is the best player of the bunch.

[Scott Campbell]

Capers has his work cut out for him, that is for sure.

Boo! Bring back the new wist.


I was laughing my ass off during the draft. It was as if Wist was possessed by Tony Robbins.

[rbaloha1]

I don't agree at all that there is "a lot" of talent in that front 7...

While I love the Raji pick, and am hopeful of Jones and Matthews, you're still looking at a gaggle of pedestrian guys, and the best player of the bunch, Kampman, is going to be miscast as a LB.

Barnett and Hawk are not going to suddenly become good pass rushers... deception born out of the 3-4 may get them home from time to time, but they aren't going to beat anyone man-on-man. Poppinga, while he's tough and physcial, simply doesn't have the instincts to be a full-time starter in the NFL, IMO.

Capers has his work cut out for him, that is for sure.

Well said. Thank goodness for the draft.

[Gunakor]

I don't agree at all that there is "a lot" of talent in that front 7...

While I love the Raji pick, and am hopeful of Jones and Matthews, you're still looking at a gaggle of pedestrian guys, and the best player of the bunch, Kampman, is going to be miscast as a LB.

Barnett and Hawk are not going to suddenly become good pass rushers... deception born out of the 3-4 may get them home from time to time, but they aren't going to beat anyone man-on-man. Poppinga, while he's tough and physcial, simply doesn't have the instincts to be a full-time starter in the NFL, IMO.

Capers has his work cut out for him, that is for sure.

Barnett and Hawk don't have to be good pass rushers. Deception borne out of the 3-4 is the only reason they'll ever be rushing the passer anyway. Pressure will come primarily from the outside, where Kampman and Matthews will be lining up.

Pop won't be a starter, but he'll be a quality backup to Kampman outside.

There are 6 first round draft picks in our front 7 this year. Harrell, Pickett, Raji, Barnett, Hawk, and Matthews. The only one who isn't a first round draft pick is Aaron Kampman, who is the most productive player in the whole group. I wouldn't call them a pedestrian group. There's tons of talent there.

[cheesner]

I don't agree at all that there is "a lot" of talent in that front 7...

While I love the Raji pick, and am hopeful of Jones and Matthews, you're still looking at a gaggle of pedestrian guys, and the best player of the bunch, Kampman, is going to be miscast as a LB.

Barnett and Hawk are not going to suddenly become good pass rushers... deception born out of the 3-4 may get them home from time to time, but they aren't going to beat anyone man-on-man. Poppinga, while he's tough and physcial, simply doesn't have the instincts to be a full-time starter in the NFL, IMO.

Capers has his work cut out for him, that is for sure.Last season Kampman was asked to rush the QB, Stop the run, and cover the flats for screens. This season Kampman will be asked to rush the QB, stop the run, and to cover the flats for screens. I think he will be fine.

[KYPack]

How 'bout ROLB?

Matthews is starting there in the rookie drills.

Will that carry through or will Popp get the veteran nod?

[Bretsky]

Capers has his work cut out for him, that is for sure.

Boo! Bring back the new wist.


I was laughing my ass off during the draft. It was as if Wist was possessed by Tony Robbins.


he turned fruitcake that weekend :!: :lol:

[Bretsky]

How 'bout ROLB?

Matthews is starting there in the rookie drills.

Will that carry through or will Popp get the veteran nod?


Popp is just a guy; I had left that phrase for Wist in the past but now that he's on the turtle train I can use it again.

We have to cheer for Matthews and it will be a bit disappointing if Popp beats him out in camp. We have a late first rounder competiting against debateably our least talented starter.......probably with the exception of Bigby.

[Joemailman]

How 'bout ROLB?

Matthews is starting there in the rookie drills.

Will that carry through or will Popp get the veteran nod?

I've never believed it will be Popp when all is said and done. If it's not Matthews, it could be a young guy like Thompson, or maybe even Brandon Chillar.

[Fritz]

I'm really curious about how Jeremy Thompson will do. TT did trade up for the guy, after all. I think he's got some talent and if Mtthews pans out and Kampman struggles in the LB position (not saying he will, just if) then this might be one way to solve that issue.

I'm excited. And I'm even okay with Popps starting...but as soon as the guy has a couple of poor games, put him back on the Special Teams bus and start someone better.

However, if in camp Matthews - or someone else - outplays Poppinga, then start him. Make it an open competition. Who makes the most plays and is the most consistent and assignment-sure wins the job.

[pbmax]

Popp may be just a guy, but he is one of the better LBs against the run, and he has already played the edge against the TE as standup linebacker.

I wouldn't be surprised if he starts and is on the field for likely run downs.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'm really curious about how Jeremy Thompson will do. TT did trade up for the guy, after all. I think he's got some talent

He has a talent for looking like a good football player. That's a start.

[wist43]

I don't agree at all that there is "a lot" of talent in that front 7...

While I love the Raji pick, and am hopeful of Jones and Matthews, you're still looking at a gaggle of pedestrian guys, and the best player of the bunch, Kampman, is going to be miscast as a LB.

Barnett and Hawk are not going to suddenly become good pass rushers... deception born out of the 3-4 may get them home from time to time, but they aren't going to beat anyone man-on-man. Poppinga, while he's tough and physcial, simply doesn't have the instincts to be a full-time starter in the NFL, IMO.

Capers has his work cut out for him, that is for sure.

Barnett and Hawk don't have to be good pass rushers. Deception borne out of the 3-4 is the only reason they'll ever be rushing the passer anyway. Pressure will come primarily from the outside, where Kampman and Matthews will be lining up.

Pop won't be a starter, but he'll be a quality backup to Kampman outside.

There are 6 first round draft picks in our front 7 this year. Harrell, Pickett, Raji, Barnett, Hawk, and Matthews. The only one who isn't a first round draft pick is Aaron Kampman, who is the most productive player in the whole group. I wouldn't call them a pedestrian group. There's tons of talent there.

Raji and Matthews breath life into that front 7, no doubt about that... but Barnett, Hawk, and Pickett are JAG's; and Harrell is a bust. Barnett, Hawk and Pickett are servicable NFL starters, but none of them is a difference maker, and that is what you need in your front 7, difference makers.

Going to the 3-4 may bode well for Hawk, as I see him as having a little more pass rush, and better instincts than Barnett... Pickett will be a servicable NT.

Hopefully Raji and Matthews are better than those guys... and I think they will be; hence my out of character exuberance on draft day :lol:

Have always hated Barnett, was never really thrilled with the Hawk pick... Raji and Matthews are a step in the right direction... as is moving to the 3-4/hybrid.

[Gunakor]

Raji and Matthews breath life into that front 7, no doubt about that... but Barnett, Hawk, and Pickett are JAG's; and Harrell is a bust. Barnett, Hawk and Pickett are servicable NFL starters, but none of them is a difference maker, and that is what you need in your front 7, difference makers.


Harrell's only considered a bust because of his injury history. I really doubt he'd be considered a bust if he were healthy and playing. The fact that his injuries are unrelated to each other leads me to believe that he'll be healthy and on the field a lot more this season than prior seasons, so I can't call him a bust yet. Neither you nor I know for certain how good a football player he's gonna be at this level because we haven't had nearly a large enough sample size to judge that one way or another. Can't call him a bust.

I really, really don't think injuries are going to keep him on the sidelines forever. Think of how hungry he must be to get out there and prove himself - I'd hate to be the guy lining up across from him once he's healthy.

The difference maker is the new scheme. It will utilize those players differently than the vanilla scheme Bob Sanders asked them to play in. It's hard to be a huge difference maker when the job you're asked to do is to chase and tackle the ball carrier and that's it. They weren't asked to play in the backfield, so how many opportunities did they have to make plays in the backfield to begin with? You say they have no pass rush ability, but how would you know that when they were never asked to rush the passer? You can't blame someone for not making plays when the defensive playcall never puts them in position to make plays. Now they'll be in position to make plays, and I expect them to become playmakers as a result.

[swede]

The difference maker is the new scheme. It will utilize those players differently than the vanilla scheme Bob Sanders asked them to play in.



Exactly. Dom Capers is the big difference maker this year.

He's the Iron Chef. Raji and Mathews are fresh new chunks of meat.
And now that Hawk, Barnett and Pickett aren't marinating in vanilla they may possess a tangy new zing themselves.

[Gunakor]

The difference maker is the new scheme. It will utilize those players differently than the vanilla scheme Bob Sanders asked them to play in.



Exactly. Dom Capers is the big difference maker this year.

He's the Iron Chef. Raji and Mathews are fresh new chunks of meat.
And now that Hawk, Barnett and Pickett aren't marinating in vanilla they may possess a tangy new zing themselves.

Now I'm hungry...

[swede]

The difference maker is the new scheme. It will utilize those players differently than the vanilla scheme Bob Sanders asked them to play in.



Exactly. Dom Capers is the big difference maker this year.

He's the Iron Chef. Raji and Mathews are fresh new chunks of meat.
And now that Hawk, Barnett and Pickett aren't marinating in vanilla they may possess a tangy new zing themselves.

Now I'm hungry...

We'll have to get Skinbasket working on a recipe.

Something with eleven ingredients--mostly meat I should think--and capers to add the "zing".

[Scott Campbell]

Harrell's only considered a bust because of his injury history. I really doubt he'd be considered a bust if he were healthy and playing.


You can say that about Terrance Muphy too. But the buck has to stop at the GM - regardless of circumstances. Harrell's a bust until his play proves otherwise. IMO

[cpk1994]

The difference maker is the new scheme. It will utilize those players differently than the vanilla scheme Bob Sanders asked them to play in.



Exactly. Dom Capers is the big difference maker this year.

He's the Iron Chef. Raji and Mathews are fresh new chunks of meat.
And now that Hawk, Barnett and Pickett aren't marinating in vanilla they may possess a tangy new zing themselves.Dom Dom Dom Doooom, Dom be do be Dom, Dom Dom Dom Doooom, Dom be do be Dom. 8-)

[Gunakor]

Harrell's only considered a bust because of his injury history. I really doubt he'd be considered a bust if he were healthy and playing.


You can say that about Terrance Muphy too. But the buck has to stop at the GM - regardless of circumstances. Harrell's a bust until his play proves otherwise. IMO


I really, really don't think injuries are going to keep him on the sidelines forever. Think of how hungry he must be to get out there and prove himself - I'd hate to be the guy lining up across from him once he's healthy.

That's what I think of him right now. He hasn't played, but that doesn't mean he can't play or doesn't want to play. And when he does get healthy, he's gonna have that huge chip on his shoulder. He's going to be the hungriest guy on our entire defense. He's gonna be scary good. He'll have to be, and he knows that.

[SnakeLH2006]

Well, this is how we are lookin' on D after the draft. Some of these guys will be in other spots but this is a starting point. Feel free to criticize & discuss.

DEFENSIVE DEPTH CHART

LDE
Johnny Jolly
Justin Harrell


NT
Ryan Pickett
B.J. Raji
Fred Bledsoe
A Toribio
Brian Soi

RDE
Cullen Jenkins
Jarius Wynn
Alfred Malone
Michael Montgomery

LOLB
A Kampman
Brad Jones
Jeremy Thompson

LILB
A Hawk
D Bishop
S Havner

RILB
Nick Barnett
D Lansanha
B Chillar

ROLB
B Poppinga
Clay Matthews
J Hunter

RCB
Al Harris
Tramone Williams
Jarrett Bush
Joe Porter

FS
Nick Collins
S Rouse
C Peprah

SS
A Bigby
A Smith

LCB
C Woodson
W Blackmon
P Lee
Brandon Underwood

Also invited to rookie tryouts this weekend were a couple long shot DE's, Rhyan Anderson and Joe Lardinois. Lardinois is probably a 3-4 OLB.

You could have Pickett and Raji on the field at the same time. I'd think Raji would be the DE, but I really don't know. I figured Matthews on the right side. Jarius Wynn could well be the LDE, for balance if nothing else. Brandon Underwood was a great pick-up. He's a decent corner, a jolting safety and a ST terror. A good kid who loves to mix it up, in addition to being a ballhawk. Both Peprah and Bush will have to step it up to keep this kid off the roster.

Well, let's argue.

Not much arguing expect one thing Snake said since day 1...BJ starts either at NG or DE. With his pedigree/draft status/contract (HUGE) he'll be a starter day 1....Much to upgrade our D in so many ways. 8-) :D

[KYPack]

OK Snake.

KY wants to know.

Was Snake up that early, or out that late?

[Fritz]

If Snake is not some 17 year old putz pretending to be "Snake," I'd imagine he was out that late...

[Bretsky]

OK Snake.

KY wants to know.

Was Snake up that early, or out that late?



Snake was out late and had his way with 3 gals at the same time for about five hours. After all dat work no way could he get back to sleep right away so he brought his endless energy back here

[SnakeLH2006]

OK Snake.

KY wants to know.

Was Snake up that early, or out that late?



Snake was out late and had his way with 3 gals at the same time for about five hours. After all dat work no way could he get back to sleep right away so he brought his endless energy back here

LOL..Yes was out late...and didn't get on here till late. I wish that was the scenario Brett. I'm usually on late nite (only time I can get on here, most often).

For real, though, Brett, we gotta hook up for a club run on the weekends if that's how your weekends go. :D