Nick Barnett's contract

[Tony Oday]

how long is he signed? I cant imagine its much longer before he asks for a raise....

[MadtownPacker]

how long is he signed? I cant imagine its much longer before he asks for a raise....Isnt next season his last one? At least for FA? Well after the license/city council mess he is gone most likely.

[wist43]

It won't expire quick enough for me...

[MadtownPacker]

It won't expire quick enough for me...You got any empty spray cans in your back yard? :mrgreen:

[Tony Oday]

he better not be! I know most of you dont like him but he still is a tackling machine that has been doing it with what THREE different systems! I mean cmon. Who would you rather have Hardy Nickerson? E. J. Henderson? Junior Seau?

[MadtownPacker]

Dont forget Boss Bailey. At least Sherm got that one right.

[Tony Oday]

What is Barnett going to have to do to prove to some PAcker fans that he is a good MLB? 30 sacks 15 ints and 300 tackles?

[Zool]

What is Barnett going to have to do to prove to some PAcker fans that he is a good MLB? 30 sacks 15 ints and 300 tackles?

If Barnett gets close to these 2 numbers in his career I would be happy.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=6365

[Pack0514]

how long is he signed? I cant imagine its much longer before he asks for a raise....

According to the Unofficial Packers Cap Page, Barnett is signed through 2009

http://members.cox.net/cappage/

[Merlin]

Barnett is poised to have a monster year. He has done nothing but improve each season he has played. I hope that he stays healthy and remains a Packer. Anyone who thinks he needs to go obviously hasn't been watching the guy play the last 3 years.

AJ Hawk update:
Rumor is that after getting pushed around in OTA's by the offensive line (you know the one that isn't supposed to be any good?), Hawk decided he needed to bulk up if he was going to stand a chance to make it in the NFL. Although he did show some very good instincts, he wasn't physically able to man handle the offenders as he did in college.

As I have stated numerous times, he is an outside LB and we will be very lucky if he makes an impact before mid-season.

[Green Bud Packer]

if barnett IS locked up thru the '09 seasonand he breaks out and has two all-pro type years i'd like to see the pack negotiate a new deal. if not i don't expect to to see anything done with him til the end of the '08 season.i think he's a decent player who is being compensated justly.i feel the same of harris as i'm not as enamored with him as some, Al included.and kgb aint worth the weight of the paper in his contract.

[HarveyWallbangers]

That has to be wrong. He was drafted before the 2003 season, his rookie contract would have been 4 or 5 years, and he hasn't gotten an extension. I suspect his contract expires after the 2007 season, or possibly after this season.

[retailguy]

Dont forget Boss Bailey. At least Sherm got that one right.



:shock:

[retailguy]

As I have stated numerous times, he is an outside LB and we will be very lucky if he makes an impact before mid-season.

I wonder what wist will say about Hawk if this turns out to be true.... :wink:

[Pack0514]

That has to be wrong. He was drafted before the 2003 season, his rookie contract would have been 4 or 5 years, and he hasn't gotten an extension. I suspect his contract expires after the 2007 season, or possibly after this season.

Here you go, the article from JSOnline 2003.....

"A National Football League source said the Oregon State linebacker agreed to terms on what is essentially a five-year, $6 million deal, including a $3.2 million signing bonus. The deal will go in the books as seven years, $7.7 million, but a two-year option makes it almost guaranteed that the sixth and seventh years won't be realized."

Link: http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=156418

[Deputy Nutz]

what does Barnett have to do? how about make a tackle at the line of scrimmage. How about after 4 years in the league he will learn how to take on a block. If you are a casual fan, or a fan that looks at the box score on Monday morning then Barnett is great, but if you keep your eyes on him for a say, a series of defensive snaps, you begin to wonder about his playmaking ability.

Alot of you like to commend Grady Jackson, well either Grady played selfish and like crap, or Barnett was the tool. It can't be both ways.

[Green Bud Packer]

thanks for te update 0514.i remember brian noble not making many plays of negative yards until his 3rd or 4th year.there is still time for barnett but the clock is tickin.

[HarveyWallbangers]

what does Barnett have to do? how about make a tackle at the line of scrimmage. How about after 4 years in the league he will learn how to take on a block. If you are a casual fan, or a fan that looks at the box score on Monday morning then Barnett is great, but if you keep your eyes on him for a say, a series of defensive snaps, you begin to wonder about his playmaking ability.

Alot of you like to commend Grady Jackson, well either Grady played selfish and like crap, or Barnett was the tool. It can't be both ways.

I don't think this is entirely true. I think this was somewhat true his first year, and definitely true his second year, but last year he made many more plays at or near the line of scrimmage. Where's patler when you need him?

He'll never take on blocks well, but there are a lot of LBs in the league who don't--even big name guys. The guys that do are few and far between. Jim Bates scheme was set up to protect LBs from having to take on OL--with the understanding that LBs are far less effective when they have to take on OL.

[Deputy Nutz]

I agree with Barnett not being able to take on blocks well, and that he runs in a system where the defensive tackles need to defend him, but if there are still blockers getting into Barnett and driving him down the field, whose fault is it?

I wish someone had the stat for getting knocked on your ass by the fullback, because that is one category that Barnett would lead the league in.

I personally have no need for guys like Barnett and Urlacher and Ray Lewis if they can't perform because they simply can't take on a block. Lewis came out this spring and basicaly said as much when he told the org that he can't play in Baltimore if they don't have atleast two big bodies playing infront of him to take up all the blockers. Maybe I am old school, and think that even an average linebacker should have the technique to take on and shed a block in enough time to make a play before the running back gains more than 4 yard. Is taking on a block a lost art form for middle linebackers? What a crock of crap. Murphy makes a better shit stew than this garbage.

[Tony Oday]

That is every LB in the NFL!!!! cmon.

Barnett per Patler's research made most of his tackles at 1-3 yards. RIGHT where he is supposed to as a MLB.

[Green Bud Packer]

it would be interesting to see those numbers. how many were solo how many assisted junk like that.barnetts a good mlb maybe a little better than average but i think he'd be better as the mike. i'd still like to see the numbers cuz "most of his tackles" is a vague statement.

[Deputy Nutz]

That is every LB in the NFL!!!! cmon.

Barnett per Patler's research made most of his tackles at 1-3 yards. RIGHT where he is supposed to as a MLB.

Who is Patler? He doesn't exist, sorry.

[Rastak]

That is every LB in the NFL!!!! cmon.

Barnett per Patler's research made most of his tackles at 1-3 yards. RIGHT where he is supposed to as a MLB.

Who is Patler? He doesn't exist, sorry.


He meant Shamler......

[Patler]

Yes, I was Patler.
Yes, I reported Barnett's tackles as recorded in the game sheets based on yards from scrmmage.
Yes I analyzed his assisted tackles versus tackles.

No, I'm not going to repeat one bit of it.

[Rastak]

Yes, I was Patler.
Yes, I reported Barnett's tackles as recorded in the game sheets based on yards from scrmmage.
Yes I analyzed his assisted tackles versus tackles.

No, I'm not going to repeat one bit of it.

No need to, it was a work of art.

[Patler]

Yes, I was Patler.
Yes, I reported Barnett's tackles as recorded in the game sheets based on yards from scrmmage.
Yes I analyzed his assisted tackles versus tackles.

No, I'm not going to repeat one bit of it.

No need to, it was a work of art.

Thanks!

My only complaint about Barnett is that he doesn't make enough "game changing" or "momentum changing" plays. As a routine every down mlb he does fine, especially in Bates defense. He makes most tackles where you would expect him to, based on the play as it unfolds. The problem is he doesn't seem to have the knack to make the unusual play, reading, reacting or defeating a block to make the play where you don't expect it. That doesn't make him a bad linebacker, as some here suggest. It just means he is not a great linebacker.

Of course, the Packer's defense is filled with those types of players. Harris is about the only one who occassionally makes a momentum changing play, and even he is not big time in that area. For the most part, the DBs and LBs intercept the poorly thrown passes, or the tipped passes. They don't "make plays" to intercept. The defense doesn't get the big tackle for loss, sack, forced fumble, etc. It was evident last year in several of the close games when the defense couldn't come up with the plays that were needed to keep the game in check and give the offense another chance.

[mraynrand]

Barnett is a fair LB. He would probably start for at least half the teams out there, but he's not a consistent game changer (meaning he rarely makes a game changing play). Last year he had several chances to make plays in the backfield and missed tackles. He had interceptions in his paws and dropped the ball (Cleveland comes to mind). But the worst problem is he doesn't have that quick instinct to decide when to move to the running back, as opposed to 'riding out' the play. This flaw results in his making tackles downfield too often. It actually doesn't look all that bad, except when you compare him with more aggressive LBs. When you look at the good LBs, they can disrupt plays - even if they don't make the tackle, they force the issue and disrupt plays, allowing others to clean up. Even though he was a SS, and not a LB, the last guy the Packers had that really could do this was LeRoy Butler. Barnett is just so-so. He's certainly an upgrade over Bernardo Harris and aged Hardy Nickerson, but virtually every starter at MLB can make this claim. His speed is very good, and it allows him to be decent in pass coverage (only decent because even though he has the speed to stay with guys, he tends to get lost in space). Barnett will remain a 'serviceable' LB, and can remain a decent player with better players around him, but he's never going to be more than that. Upgrading shouldn't be all that difficult. My crystal ball sees him starting for Houston in a few seasons....

[Harlan Huckleby]

Barnett is a fair LB. He would probably start for at least half the teams out there

I suspect that every team in the NFL would start him, especially since he can play a couple positions.

[MadtownPacker]

Tru e about Barnett not being a game changing.

There's a guy that makes some game changing play on D. His name is Ahmad Carroll and he is gonna make evenyone STFU this season.

[wist43]

You guys know I hate Barnett, but I probably wouldn't have as much contempt for him if he were a 5th round pick, making half the salary; and, he weren't such a punk. But he was a 1st round pick - a wasted 1st rd pick IMO - and, he's a ginormous punk. I don't like his personality, and I hate the way he plays. The sooner he's a former Packer, the better.

Talentwise, he's average in coverage and abysmal against the run. He can't take on blocks, he gets washed away in trash, he consistently takes bad angles, he almost never hits the right gap, he's a drag down tackler, and he hits like a gnat trying to tackle a tank - in short, he has speed and nothing else... he has virtually no instinct for the game of football.

[pbmax]

That is every LB in the NFL!!!! cmon.

Barnett per Patler's research made most of his tackles at 1-3 yards. RIGHT where he is supposed to as a MLB.
Every LB makes most of his tackles in this area, as every running back has the most runs for this distance. And there are more runs than completed passes. Entire teams might make the most tackles in this area.

Every play other than PTAs(most) and TDs results in a tackle.

The goal of a good defense is not to make more tackles, it is to make tackles BEFORE yielding a first down. Essentially to make fewer tackles, because a high percentage don't allow a first down.

Some of this is beyond the defenses control as the O may stink or turn the ball over, giving the opposing O more possessions.

Did Barnett prevent first downs when he had responsibility for the area?

I see alot of pursuit. But I am not a keen enough observer of LB play to tell whether Barnett is suffering from lack of support on the Dline or he simply is wasted at the point of attack.

[Bretsky]

Tru e about Barnett not being a game changing.

There's a guy that makes some game changing play on D. His name is Ahmad Carroll and he is gonna make evenyone STFU this season.

Carroll Kool Aide Crack Rat ? :wink: :mrgreen:

[Tony Oday]

if you can hold the opponets to 3 yards or less every down you win.

Barnett does need to start making more 'plays' in terms of turning the ball over. I would like to see some strips and ints. I do have a question though. With teh condition of the LB corp in recent years is he being coached to make the 'safe' play?

I cant wait to see him teamed with taylor and hawk. I think this is the year he makes the jump from solid MLB to stud MLB.

On the attitude I have never seen him as a punk? Do you know him or do you see it in interviews?

If he was a 5th round pick!!!! I mean cmon he would be super stud. Atleast he isnt E.J. Henderson!

[Bretsky]

if you can hold the opponets to 3 yards or less every down you win.

Barnett does need to start making more 'plays' in terms of turning the ball over. I would like to see some strips and ints. I do have a question though. With teh condition of the LB corp in recent years is he being coached to make the 'safe' play?

I cant wait to see him teamed with taylor and hawk. I think this is the year he makes the jump from solid MLB to stud MLB.

On the attitude I have never seen him as a punk? Do you know him or do you see it in interviews?

If he was a 5th round pick!!!! I mean cmon he would be super stud. Atleast he isnt E.J. Henderson!


Barnett is a solid LB who would probably break into every starting lineup in the NFL, or almost every one. I agree he needs to create more turnovers to be even considered near elite.

Is this coaching ? Maybe some ? Remember a guy people in here didn't like much in Ed Donatell ? Nearly all the teams he coached on D, good or bad, created a lot of turnovers. He coached it and mentally drilled it into them; maybe we need more of that ?

Regarding the attitude, I think he's alright. It's not like he's Joey Thomas or Ahmad Carroll, but it was bothersome when he makes a play and celebrates when GB was getting their @ss handed to them. THis happened a couple times last year.

[wist43]

I know most of you guys like Barnett... after Harris, Joyner, and Nickerson I think everyone was relieved to get some youth and athleticism into the middle.

I, like many of you, tape every game and go back analyze play... I pay particular attention to overall defense and OL play. For just about every game, I watch Barnett on every play - bottom line is, overall, he's a liability b/c of his lack of physicality, toughness, and his overall lack of instinct and understanding of the game.

Sometimes it's absolutely inexplicable why he does some of the things he does on the field... I'll play the tape forward and backward and can find no justifiable reason why he zigged when he clearly should have zagged.

How many times have we seen RB's go the distance, completely untouched b/c Barnett took the wrong gap??? Some may argue that that gap may have been his reponsibility, but a LB has to have a nose for the ball, and the instincts to see where the play is going... Barnett has neither, and will always be a liability b/c of it.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I, like many of you, tape every game and go back analyze play...

liar. you said you are only in front of the tv during packer game, and out golfing the rest of time.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Regarding the attitude, I think he's alright. It's not like he's Joey Thomas or Ahmad Carroll, but it was bothersome when he makes a play and celebrates when GB was getting their @ss handed to them. THis happened a couple times last year.

I agree. Some people can't handle the Samuarai move apparently. It's just the way it is in the NFL. Unfortunately, we can't run back the clock. Does that make him a bad person? No. It just means times have changed. Off the field, I haven't heard bad things about him. In fact, I'm usually relatively impressed with his interviews.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Some people can't handle the Samuarai move apparently.

Gilbert Brown's gravedigger move was a source of pride for packer fans. It's amazing how style points count so much!

[Patler]

How many times have we seen RB's go the distance, completely untouched b/c Barnett took the wrong gap??? Some may argue that that gap may have been his reponsibility, but a LB has to have a nose for the ball, and the instincts to see where the play is going... Barnett has neither, and will always be a liability b/c of it.

The only problem with that analysis Wist is that in Barnett's first two years the defensive philosophy was gap responsibilty, regardless. What you describe is exactly what the philosophy was opposed to. Slowik, especially, hammered into them that they were WRONG if they left their responsibilty, even if they made the play. I remember a quote from him to the effect that everyone needed to trust the scheme and their team mates, and if it didn't work it would be the coaches fault. So in that sense Barnett was doing what he was coached to do, it was the coaches fault and the schemes fault and luckily both are gone.

Barnett was different last year, and in some respects it was almost like another rookie year for him. He is expected to make plays, and I thought he put himself in position to do that much more last year. Unfortunately, he didn't finish them. He had quite a few missed tackles behind the line of scrimmage. The good part was he showed much better "read and react" than I thought he had to get to those. The bad part was poor tackling, but that can be improved more than the instinctive things can.

In my opinion, Barnett still could be a very good player. This will be a determinative year for him. He has the experience overall, and for the first time he won't be learning a new scheme.

You seem to blame him because he was a first round pick. That's not his fault, or Carrols, or Reynolds. Unlike some who throw away their opportunities, these guys are trying, they may just not have the ability to match. That's not their fault.

[Bretsky]

I am impressed with everything he does off the field as well and his interviews. I know Wist hates Barnett; but if my memory serves me right he was the right call there and the best pick around that area. Go back and look at those drafted behind him; Barnett was the pick Sherman got right.

[mraynrand]

Talentwise, he's average in coverage and abysmal against the run. He can't take on blocks, he gets washed away in trash, he consistently takes bad angles, he almost never hits the right gap, he's a drag down tackler, and he hits like a gnat trying to tackle a tank - in short, he has speed and nothing else... he has virtually no instinct for the game of football.

I think this is a pretty accurate analysis of Barnett, but a little extreme. I too watch the tapes. I see Barnett taking false steps, filling the wrong gap, and displaying assignment confusion. However, I also watch the MLB on the other side of the ball, and often, I see a guy that's worse. Barnett doesn't get sucked in by play action the way a lot of other MLBs do, and even when he does, he has the recovery speed to minimize the damage.

About his draft position - at #29 you are getting mostly misses. A recent vote of (I think) sportswriters or scouts/GMs rated the best #29 pick (prior to Barnett) as being none other than George Teague. I think you have to avoid the tendency to cherry pick (in a way, that's what I did with Teague and the #29 pick). If you only look at Barnett relative to successful LBs drafted in the first round, or if you only compare him with other good and/or probowl caliber LBs, you're going to be disappointed. It you look at all the guys playing MLB, you'll realize that Barnett isn't quite as bad as you think, RELATIVELY speaking.

[Bretsky]

THIS IS THE PLAYERS WE HAD TO CHOOSE FROM; IT'S CLEAR BARNETT WAS THE RIGHT CALL.

SURE YOU COULD SAY BOLDIN, BUT HE WASN"T AN OPTION SINCE GREEN BAY PICKED JAVON WALKER THE YEAR BEFORE THE ROBERT THE FRAUD FERGUSON TWO YEARS BEFORE



29 Green Bay NICK BARNETT Outside linebacker Oregon State
30 San Diego (from Philadelphia) SAMUEL DAVIS, Jr. Cornerback Texas A&M
31 Oakland NNAMBI ASOMUGHA Cornerback California
32 Oakland TYLER BRAYTON Defensive end Colorado

ROUND 2
1 Cincinnati ERIC STEINBACH Guard Iowa
2 Detroit BOSS BAILEY Outside linebacker Georgia
3 Chicago CHARLES TILLMAN Cornerback Louisiana Lafayette
4 New England (from Houston) EUGENE WILSON II Cornerback Illinois
5 Arizona (from New Orleans) JONATHAN STINCHCOMB Tackle Georgia
6 Dallas AL JOHNSON Center Wisconsin
7 Jacksonville RASHEAN MATHIS Safety Bethune-Cookman
8 Minnesota E.J. HENDERSON Outside linebacker Maryland
9 Houston (from Baltimore) BENJAMIN JOPPRU Tight end Michigan
10 Seattle KEN HAMLIN Safety Arkansas
11 St. Louis PISA TINOISAMOA Safety Hawaii
12 Washington TAYLOR JACOBS Wide receiver Florida
13 New England (from Carolina) BETHEL JOHNSON Wide receiver Texas A&M
14 San Diego DRAYTON FLORENCE Cornerback Tuskegee
15 Kansas City KAWIKA MITCHELL Inside linebacker South Florida
16 Buffalo CHRISTOPHER KELSAY Defensive end Nebraska
17 Miami EDDIE MOORE Outside linebacker Tennessee
18 Carolina (from New England) BRUCE NELSON Center Iowa
19 Denver TERRY PIERCE Outside linebacker Kansas State
20 Cleveland CHAUN THOMPSON Outside linebacker West Texas A&M
21 N.Y. Jets VICTOR HOBSON Outside linebacker Michigan
22 Arizona (from New Orleans) ANQUAN BOLDIN Wide receiver Florida State
23 Atlanta BRYAN SCOTT Safety Penn State
24 N.Y. Giants OSI UMENYIORA Defensive end Troy State
25 San Francisco ANTHONY ADAMS, Jr. Nose guard Penn State
26 Indianapolis MICHAEL DOSS Safety Ohio State
27 Pittsburgh ALONZO JACKSON Defensive end Florida State
28 Tennessee TYRONE CALICO Wide receiver Middle Tennessee State
29 Philadelphia L.J. SMITH Tight end Rutgers
30 San Diego (from Philadelphia via Green Bay) TERRANCE KIEL Safety Texas A&M
31 Oakland TEYO JOHNSON Wide receiver Stanford
32 Tampa Bay DEWAYNE WHITE Defensive end Louisville

[Partial]

7 Jacksonville RASHEAN MATHIS Safety Bethune-Cookman
10 Seattle KEN HAMLIN Safety Arkansas
24 N.Y. Giants OSI UMENYIORA Defensive end Troy State
26 Indianapolis MICHAEL DOSS Safety Ohio State
Boldin - forgot him initially

Only 5 players better below him. Considering they were all ranked much lower than him, it was a pretty good pick. You win some and you lose some, and sure there were better players drafted below him, but he was a solid pick all things considered.

[RashanGary]

Good points by Patler.

Wist said Barnett zigged when he should have zagged and Patler pointed out gap responsibility.

I don't know if it's a little of both or most of one, but we don't know what the DC has planned, so for us to assume he was supposed to do one thing is clearly jsut that; an assumption.

I agree he needs to knock more balls loose and make big plays on a somewhat regular basis to be considered top notch. I think we've seen what Barnett brings and he is a good LB. Not great at all, but good. Hopefully Hawk is that difference maker who acctually forces some TO's. If not, the Pack will have a very average Defense once again.

[wist43]

The play that stands out most in my mind is the Tiki Barber run from a couple of years ago. Everybody did their job, i.e. DT's ate up the G's and Center, the play was there for Barnett to make. The gigantic hole that Barber ran thru was impossible to miss... Barber didn't miss it. Barnett inexplicably right out of the hole, and Barber ran 76 yds untouched.

The announcers were just as stunned as I was... what could he have been looking at???

That's just one play, and you could write it off as such; but, he does it all the time. The consequences may not be as dire as in that instance, but if you watch Barnett down in, and down out, you see it happen all the time.

We're stuck with him for the foreseeable future, so I hope he improves and plays better, but seeing is believing. He played better last year, i.e. close to average, so maybe there's hope, but at this point, I'm still a huge skeptic.

[oregonpackfan]

I still think Barnett still is in the learning curve as a pro middle linebacker.
Many Packer fans are still not aware that Barnett NEVER played middle linebacker at Oregon State. He played his first two seasons at safety and the last two seasons at OLB.

In his past 3 seasons as a pro, Barnett has had 3 different defensive coordinators and 3 different defensive schemes. This year he will face a 4th new DC. I feel his development as a pro MLB would have been greatly enhanced if he had just 1 or 2 DC's his first three years.

I agree with Patler that this year will be a determinative year for him. He has more talent around him at the OLB positions and more talent in the DL line. Finally, he just has more experience.

One strength of Barnett's that has not mentioned is his durability. I beleive he has only missed a couple of games in his first three years. That is a positive quality for any starting player.

Oregonpackfan

[Merlin]

what does Barnett have to do? how about make a tackle at the line of scrimmage. How about after 4 years in the league he will learn how to take on a block. If you are a casual fan, or a fan that looks at the box score on Monday morning then Barnett is great, but if you keep your eyes on him for a say, a series of defensive snaps, you begin to wonder about his playmaking ability.

Alot of you like to commend Grady Jackson, well either Grady played selfish and like crap, or Barnett was the tool. It can't be both ways.

Here we go, another person pointing out mistakes and not accomplishments. If you over-analyze (that is twhat you are doing here) all of the bad plays (the few there are) and blow it up into what you have, of course you think the guy sucks. If you actually watch the guy play, you will see he has made steady positive improvement EVERY year. No LB can shed EVERY block or make EVERY tackle at the line of scrimmage. Barnett's over all statistics, not just number of tackles (you do know the track EVERYTHING about a player right?) are comparable to Brian Urlacher of the Chicago Bears. But because Urlacher misses some tackles, doesn't make all of his tackles at the line of scrimmage and can't fight off every block, he must suck according to your logic. I suppose Ray Lewis does to for that matter because his stats are along the same lines.

Well, there you have it folks, there are NO good LB's in the NFL...