TT Delivered. What's our Starting D look like now? INSANE???

[SnakeLH2006]

Pretty happy that Snake got in BTT's pocket with the Needs Preaching leading up to the draft. Noone really knows if these guys will boom or bust as rookies, but Snake's preaching was that if TT aka BTT (Big Time Ted) eschew FA and trades (and he does for the most part) he MUST go get us the NEEDS/starters lacking day 1 with his draft to do better in 2009.

I (Snake) and 90% plus of other Rats felt he did that in day 1 and day 2.

BJ will be a HUGE fucking boost to our shitty ass run D...and eventually be a Warren Sapp with size (scouts say BJ is the best passrusher at NG in the NFL right now and can also blow up runs.....man, anyone ever envy seeing how the Vike's just KILL it at the point of scrimmage in the middle of their DL with the Williams dudes in there...hopefully, and Snake suspects the same after seeing BJ in college and his hilites....really looks the part...

Snake hasn't been this excited about a pick since the Vikes took AP as a difference maker and hates the Vikes)....Just saying, this dude will be a HUGE beast that peeps across the NFL will associate with the Pack....aka..
"Play the Pack, you better be ready to get beasted by Raji. Can't move him."

Clay Matthews...lots of opinions, but this kid just keeps getting better week by week. At no worse AJ Hawk...potentially better cuz of his work ethic (floored by his timings...aka combine numbers) and bloodline. He'll be the player we thought Hawk was gonna be, yet maybe this is what helps Hawk out..Snake hasn't given up on him as a playmaker.

Here's the deal. WIth BJ drafted. He will start at NG. So will Pickett...but at DE....(TT, MM, scouts, assistant coaches have said the same in quotes, blogs, etc.) as he's 30/31 and declining and a FA after 2009. Do we move BJ for one year...Hell naw. Pickett moves.

Here's the potential D (and back to topic) that makes Snake shake. :shock:

CB: Woodson (beast ass mofo...huge gamer..love this guy).
SS: Bigby (many Rats are divided, but damn he's a playmaker/gamer/and most importantly a HITTER as we have no others at starter).
FS: Collins (real happy with him in 2008.....let's wait to pay him till we have to, might be a fluke year, but see some good stuff from Ole St. Nick in 2009).
CB: Al (and think Travon could step in, but wow was Al better than EVER in his last few games in 2008). Speed is so overrated. Snake loves guys who can beat the fuck outta WR's. That shit wins games.


OLB: Kampy (Would excel at DB if he had to, lol, this guy can play).
ILB: Hawk (Would think he's ready to take off.....)
ILB: Barnett (Snake really loved this guy the last 2 years...hopefully he's back from his knee injury, but think Bishop needs some snaps..love that guy).
OBL: Clay (we wouldn't have given up so many picks if he wasn't a starter....so much upside to Clay. Hate Poops as a starter, but serviceable beast potentially as a ST/backup).

DE: Pickett (many will be shocked, but he moves well laterally...not fast, but a very good run stuffer at a 3-4 DE....very good move and expect it).
NG: BJ (will prove to be a force day 1 and define our team as a leader, but as a face of the franchise...perennial All-Pro....will be our best player in a year or two potentially). Huge upside.
DE: Jenkins (hopefully he recovers, as when he's healthy he plays at a Pro-Bowl level...if not Jolly or JH).

So basically, our 20th plus ranked D last year got 3 upgrades with 2 picks. BJ makes us immediately a force at NG......moving Pickett to DE...upgrade to the run again....and Clay is much better than Poops. The secondary was moot, and the guys getting better (Collins, Rouse, Bigby) negate the aging of our corners (Al, Wood) with Travon reaady to step in in 2009.

Great D on paper. Insane really. Let's see how it get worked out, but that looks like an imposing D player-wise for our day one 2009 starters.

[mission]

Think about that line ... three guys... almost 1000 fuckin pounds!! With four beasts behind him and a good secondary.

1000 pounds, 3 guys. :shock: :shock:

As much as the draft couldn't come soon enough, training camp can't come soon enough... or rookie camp, or anything! Let's go!

[SnakeLH2006]

Think about that line ... three guys... almost 1000 fuckin pounds!! With four beasts behind him and a good secondary.

1000 pounds, 3 guys. :shock: :shock:

As much as the draft couldn't come soon enough, training camp can't come soon enough... or rookie camp, or anything! Let's go!

Exactly...the whole point of this thread is saying that not only did we solve needs but somehow Ted pulled it off and gave us a beasting mofo D. Pickett is a godsend at DE. So many (including Snake and everyone's grandma thought we didn't have DE's)..well we do now. Pickett is a good DE for our system. With Jenkins back, we don't have to worry about JH or Jolly as much. That BJ pick really helped out our DE situation. Tons of man-love to move around in the 3 DL. You ain't gonna move Pickett at DE or BJ at NG, thus, the whole point of the 3-4....frees it for the LB's....and all our guys can fly and/or pass rush. Then look at our secondary which has beasted for years...

Insane D on paper...Snake expects to see a big time D under those players and esp. Dom Caper, Kevin Greene, and our Pittsburgh Safety Coach (forgot his name). If we fail on D, this year, coaches, GM's, and players will be gone. No excuses. Too much talent and good 3-4 expertise to fail....

[wist43]

Raji makes us better immediately, not only b/c of his talent, but b/c he will make everyone around him better... offenses will have to account for Raji, and that will free other people up to make plays.

That said, we still have some pretty pedestrian players on that side of the ball... but Raji and Matthews are a step in the right direction.

[SkinBasket]

I'm sorry, but I cannot get excited about any defense that starts Bigby. Doesn't matter how fat or potentially talented the line is if there's always going to an open TE or slot running free across or down the field.

[Gunakor]

Think about that line ... three guys... almost 1000 fuckin pounds!! With four beasts behind him and a good secondary.

1000 pounds, 3 guys. :shock: :shock:

As much as the draft couldn't come soon enough, training camp can't come soon enough... or rookie camp, or anything! Let's go!

How about if Harrell wins the staring job over Jenkins? 3 guys, combined weight of half a ton, all first round draft picks.

I'm really hoping that Harrell can beat out Jenkins for that spot, because that would mean that a) he's pretty damn good at the job, and b) we fans will get a chance to see the exceptional talent that this guy is. I truly hope he can get healthy and back to form.

[Waldo]

I'm sorry, but I cannot get excited about any defense that starts Bigby. Doesn't matter how fat or potentially talented the line is if there's always going to an open TE or slot running free across or down the field.

I cannot get excited about a defense coordinated by somebody that expects his SS to cover slot WR's in M2M coverage.

[Gunakor]

I'm sorry, but I cannot get excited about any defense that starts Bigby. Doesn't matter how fat or potentially talented the line is if there's always going to an open TE or slot running free across or down the field.

I cannot get excited about a defense coordinated by somebody that expects his SS to cover slot WR's in M2M coverage.

I expect Bigby will be playing closer to the LOS this year anyway, not left out in coverage all the time. He's a hitter, and he'll be used in run support. I have no problem with him being in at SS.

[Packnut]

Think about that line ... three guys... almost 1000 fuckin pounds!! With four beasts behind him and a good secondary.

1000 pounds, 3 guys. :shock: :shock:

As much as the draft couldn't come soon enough, training camp can't come soon enough... or rookie camp, or anything! Let's go!

How about if Harrell wins the staring job over Jenkins? 3 guys, combined weight of half a ton, all first round draft picks.

I'm really hoping that Harrell can beat out Jenkins for that spot, because that would mean that a) he's pretty damn good at the job, and b) we fans will get a chance to see the exceptional talent that this guy is. I truly hope he can get healthy and back to form.


Counting on Harrell is nothing but a dream. The fact that they keep saying they are being "careful" with him speaks volumes. If after all this time has gone by, and the guy still is'nt back to healthy, forget about him.

It's obvious he has some serious problems with his back and I don't believe for a second they will ever fully heal.

[Gunakor]

Think about that line ... three guys... almost 1000 fuckin pounds!! With four beasts behind him and a good secondary.

1000 pounds, 3 guys. :shock: :shock:

As much as the draft couldn't come soon enough, training camp can't come soon enough... or rookie camp, or anything! Let's go!

How about if Harrell wins the staring job over Jenkins? 3 guys, combined weight of half a ton, all first round draft picks.

I'm really hoping that Harrell can beat out Jenkins for that spot, because that would mean that a) he's pretty damn good at the job, and b) we fans will get a chance to see the exceptional talent that this guy is. I truly hope he can get healthy and back to form.


Counting on Harrell is nothing but a dream. The fact that they keep saying they are being "careful" with him speaks volumes. If after all this time has gone by, and the guy still is'nt back to healthy, forget about him.

It's obvious he has some serious problems with his back and I don't believe for a second they will ever fully heal.

I never said I'd count on him. I said I'm hoping he gets healthy and WINS the starting job. That means he'd have earned it. That's what I want to see.

I'm surprised at those who'd give up on a first round pick after just 2 years. Are you a doctor that would know if his back would ever heal?

[SkinBasket]

I'm sorry, but I cannot get excited about any defense that starts Bigby. Doesn't matter how fat or potentially talented the line is if there's always going to an open TE or slot running free across or down the field.

I cannot get excited about a defense coordinated by somebody that expects his SS to cover slot WR's in M2M coverage.

I expect Bigby will be playing closer to the LOS this year anyway, not left out in coverage all the time. He's a hitter, and he'll be used in run support. I have no problem with him being in at SS.

I don't buy moving him to the LOS solving his problems. Sure, hiding his inadequacies will help, but he's still a DB, and he's still going to have to try to defend the pass every now and again. Unless the ball is in front of him, which is less likely if he's pushed up to the line more often, he fails. Poor angles, poor positioning, poor speed.

Of course, he still takes bad angles on RBs too and he isn't any faster the closer to the LOS he gets, so I'm not all that excited about him playing the line either.

Here's to hoping one of those other guys has some kind of revelation this off season and becomes average enough to start.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Bigby is to Skin what Sharper was to Mad.

[bobblehead]

Think about that line ... three guys... almost 1000 fuckin pounds!! With four beasts behind him and a good secondary.

1000 pounds, 3 guys. :shock: :shock:

As much as the draft couldn't come soon enough, training camp can't come soon enough... or rookie camp, or anything! Let's go!

How about if Harrell wins the staring job over Jenkins? 3 guys, combined weight of half a ton, all first round draft picks.

I'm really hoping that Harrell can beat out Jenkins for that spot, because that would mean that a) he's pretty damn good at the job, and b) we fans will get a chance to see the exceptional talent that this guy is. I truly hope he can get healthy and back to form.


Counting on Harrell is nothing but a dream. The fact that they keep saying they are being "careful" with him speaks volumes. If after all this time has gone by, and the guy still is'nt back to healthy, forget about him.

It's obvious he has some serious problems with his back and I don't believe for a second they will ever fully heal.

What you "believe" is kinda irrelavent. I don't have a clue if JH is going to be healthy finally, but frankly neither do you.

I have no idea your age, or experience, but guys do get healthy. Paul Molitor was hurt every single year forever, and suddenly got healthy and got 3000 hits. There are many other examples, but that one jumps to mind. Again, you could be right, but your level of hysteria and certainty speaks volumes about you as a person.

[Freak Out]

We'll see what happens...TT did one of the things he had to do to give his coaching staff a chance at making the new defense work but it's only April after all.

[Lurker64]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Capers throws in a lot of 4-3 looks, at least to start the year.

Kampman-Pickett-Raji-Jenkins
Hawk-Barnett-Matthews

isn't a bad front 7 from a 4-3 base at all. The problem we had last year is that once Jenkins went down, we had zero DEs to take his place.

[SkinBasket]

Bigby is to Skin what Sharper was to Mad.

At least Sharper had a skillset other than an inflated perception that he has the ability to hit hard. Like I've said before, people want him to be better than he is because he has a goofy name, goofy hair, and that cool Rastafarian thing going on. You strip him of expectations and hopes and fanboyism, and he's an utterly replaceable player who's made 3-5 "big" hits in as many years.

[Gunakor]

Bigby is to Skin what Sharper was to Mad.

At least Sharper had a skillset other than an inflated perception that he has the ability to hit hard. Like I've said before, people want him to be better than he is because he has a goofy name, goofy hair, and that cool Rastafarian thing going on. You strip him of expectations and hopes and fanboyism, and he's an utterly replaceable player who's made 3-5 "big" hits in as many years.

He only played a couple of weeks last season before getting injured, and looked pretty good in that limited time. He was a defensive player of the week once the year before. He's made his mistakes, granted, but so has Nick Collins - who we all thought was utterly replaceable before last season. Bigby has shown more in his 1 and a half years starting than Collins did his first 3 years. Why so reluctant to give Bigby a chance?

[sharpe1027]

Bigby is to Skin what Sharper was to Mad.

At least Sharper had a skillset other than an inflated perception that he has the ability to hit hard. Like I've said before, people want him to be better than he is because he has a goofy name, goofy hair, and that cool Rastafarian thing going on. You strip him of expectations and hopes and fanboyism, and he's an utterly replaceable player who's made 3-5 "big" hits in as many years.

Bigby may be over-hyped for all of these reasons and more, but, IMHO, he has shown more ability than you give him credit for.

[CaliforniaCheez]

The Packers need a couple better DE's.

They need a couple of guys that are pushing Woodson and Harris out the door if they aren't starting.

Barnett is too small and can be replaced by a better LB.

You have to remember what Ron Wolf said. The players are only here until they can be replaced.

A team can always get better.

Look for next year's draft to improve the defense more.

He may trade Kampmann for a first round pick. Same with Barnett

Look at the teams that traded second round picks for firsts next year or 3rd round picks for next year's second round picks.

Ted will never make this team perfect. He must always be working at it.

[Fritz]

Bigby is to Skin what Sharper was to Mad.

At least Sharper had a skillset other than an inflated perception that he has the ability to hit hard. Like I've said before, people want him to be better than he is because he has a goofy name, goofy hair, and that cool Rastafarian thing going on. You strip him of expectations and hopes and fanboyism, and he's an utterly replaceable player who's made 3-5 "big" hits in as many years.

You vastly underestimate the power of the cool Rastafarian thing.

[Gunakor]

Bigby is to Skin what Sharper was to Mad.

At least Sharper had a skillset other than an inflated perception that he has the ability to hit hard. Like I've said before, people want him to be better than he is because he has a goofy name, goofy hair, and that cool Rastafarian thing going on. You strip him of expectations and hopes and fanboyism, and he's an utterly replaceable player who's made 3-5 "big" hits in as many years.

You vastly underestimate the power of the cool Rastafarian thing.

Seems to work for more than a few players in this league.

[The Leaper]

I like our defensive depth overall, but there is still going to be a large learning curve for many of these guys in transitioning over to a hybrid 3-4.

Our success in 2009 on defense is really going to depend on 3 players...Kampman and his transition to OLB, Harrell and his ability to become a capable 3-4 DE, and Hawk becoming more of a playmaker at the ILB position.

We need at least 2 of those guys to take a real step forward on this new defense.

[CaliforniaCheez]

The Defense can always get better.

[SnakeLH2006]

Bigby is to Skin what Sharper was to Mad.

At least Sharper had a skillset other than an inflated perception that he has the ability to hit hard. Like I've said before, people want him to be better than he is because he has a goofy name, goofy hair, and that cool Rastafarian thing going on. You strip him of expectations and hopes and fanboyism, and he's an utterly replaceable player who's made 3-5 "big" hits in as many years.

Bigby may be over-hyped for all of these reasons and more, but, IMHO, he has shown more ability than you give him credit for.

Agreed. Bigby is a serviceable player and prob. the worst of the 11 starters I (Snake) listed as potential 2009 starters. Yet he does have skill sets (ballhawking, big hitter) that is lacking other than Wood's ball skills and no one hits like him.

I don't for a 2nd care about Atari's name or hair (what's with that anyway, but could care less)? I like that he's a gamer and goes nuts to stick a hit on an RB or CAN get us a pick or two. Yes he's out of place at times, but definitely doesn't remind Snake of Marquand Manuel, etc. of failed ass rejects we used to have at safety. He's a deece starter and has some really good games when healthy.

I was only projecting our starting D (on paper) for 2009. Do you want Rouse, Skin? He may be good, but is hurt just as much and has done far less. So put him in there then. Why go AWOL over Bigby..I stated in my analysis peeps are divided over him. Sobeit. Snake likes Bigby, and really loves a hitter's mentality. If he tanks this year in coverage...throw in Rouse. Both of their flaws negate the other (Rouse/Bigby). That's an upgrade to look at in draft 2010 possibly, but this year on paper...looks to be a pretty damn good Defense for our starters.

If that's all is to bitch about for our starters, sobeit. On paper, this D looks very nuts and if Bigby is the weakspot, wow, Snake is happy to line him up as the WORST of our 11 D starters.

[SkinBasket]

I was only projecting our starting D (on paper) for 2009. Do you want Rouse, Skin? He may be good, but is hurt just as much and has done far less. So put him in there then. Why go AWOL over Bigby..I stated in my analysis peeps are divided over him. Sobeit. Snake likes Bigby, and really loves a hitter's mentality. If he tanks this year in coverage...throw in Rouse. Both of their flaws negate the other (Rouse/Bigby). That's an upgrade to look at in draft 2010 possibly, but this year on paper...looks to be a pretty damn good Defense for our starters.

If that's all is to bitch about for our starters, sobeit. On paper, this D looks very nuts and if Bigby is the weakspot, wow, Snake is happy to line him up as the WORST of our 11 D starters.

I'm not saying I don't like our defense. There are some parts of your projection that feel more like hope than expectation though. I'm going to wait to see Raji play against NFL linemen before I get excited about him. That's not being pessimistic. I just still have the bad taste of #10 pick Jamal Reynolds in my mouth is all and am skeptical about drafting DL high in any draft. I obviously hope Clay has the ability to replace Poppinga, because he's every bit as bad as Atari, but I'm not counting on it until 2010.

As far as replacing Bigby, I don't know what the fuck you do because I don't know what Capers is going to expect from the position. On top of that, it seems that finding solid safeties is becoming increasingly difficult these days. I suppose I hope Rouse has figured out what the coaches want from him and comes into camp and wins the starting job, or a majority of the snaps anyway.

In a perfect world I would have really like for them to bring in Leonard, who was able to run one of the top defenses in the league as a rookie. I would exchange that kind of football intelligence and leadership for the 1 or 2 "big" hits that Bigby delivers each season any day.

[Fritz]

It is kinda funny that just after the "hot" period of free agency so many posters were riding the "waaambulance" because TT didn't sign Canty or Olshovsky, but now suddenly the Packers have a top ten defense.

[Bretsky]

homers

[Joemailman]

It is kinda funny that just after the "hot" period of free agency so many posters were riding the "waaambulance" because TT didn't sign Canty or Olshovsky, but now suddenly the Packers have a top ten defense.

Top five. :P

[mission]

It is kinda funny that just after the "hot" period of free agency so many posters were riding the "waaambulance" because TT didn't sign Canty or Olshovsky, but now suddenly the Packers have a top ten defense.

Top five. :P

I love it! :lol: :glug:

[SnakeLH2006]

It is kinda funny that just after the "hot" period of free agency so many posters were riding the "waaambulance" because TT didn't sign Canty or Olshovsky, but now suddenly the Packers have a top ten defense.

Top five. :P

I love it! :lol: :glug:

LOL...Snake didn't cry about FA, it's useless unless you want to committ record money for maybe 1 or 2 elite FA's and a bunch of average starters. We know TT's track record, so no reason to cry about it either...Snake likes having $30 million in cap space to resign all our Packer Peeps.

As far as a top 10 D. This is only a projection. It's great on paper, but it is, alas, a projection. But damn that starting 11 looks good, no? :)

[The Shadow]

Things look very, very good.

[Partial]

top 5 d? I second Bretsky. Homers. Offense and D will probably be ranked around 10ish imo.

[Gunakor]

top 5 d? I second Bretsky. Homers. Offense and D will probably be ranked around 10ish imo.

4 Pro Bowlers and 7 first round draft picks among our starting 11 on defense, now being coached by an All Star cast of defensive minds. They're capable of being a top 5 defense. They have the talent. I'm not predicting they'll be a top 5 defense this year, but you have to admit they are capable of surprising many people. It's very possible.

[RashanGary]

They had a top 8 offense a year ago. If the defense and ST's finishes around 10 average instead of 26 average, it's going to give the offense better opportunities and allow the offense to wear defenses down more.


If our defense/ST's averages to be 10th, I think our offense will be top 5 because the improved defense will also make the offense look better.

[KYPack]

Bigby needs to show he's healthy. He had surgery in the off-season. I seem to remember he had multiple leg problems last year.
Rouse had leg troubles last season, too.

Both Rouse and Bigby like to peek too much.

I wonder irf coach Darren Perry can get Smith going and he can help at the S spot.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

top 5 d? I second Bretsky. Homers. Offense and D will probably be ranked around 10ish imo.

4 Pro Bowlers and 7 first round draft picks among our starting 11 on defense, now being coached by an All Star cast of defensive minds. They're capable of being a top 5 defense. They have the talent. I'm not predicting they'll be a top 5 defense this year, but you have to admit they are capable of surprising many people. It's very possible.

I was thinking about that the other day. Our defense has a good chance to be among the best in the league. Lets hope that they can deliver and that Woodson and Harris can keep up the pace they have been on the last threee years running. If we find another corner or two this defense can be good for a very long time.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Bigby needs to show he's healthy. He had surgery in the off-season. I seem to remember he had multiple leg problems last year.
Rouse had leg troubles last season, too.

Both Rouse and Bigby like to peek too much.

I wonder irf coach Darren Perry can get Smith going and he can help at the S spot.

Bigby is a decent player. I don't think he'll ever be a pro bowler, but he can put some good games together sometimes.

[SnakeLH2006]

Bigby needs to show he's healthy. He had surgery in the off-season. I seem to remember he had multiple leg problems last year.
Rouse had leg troubles last season, too.

Both Rouse and Bigby like to peek too much.

I wonder irf coach Darren Perry can get Smith going and he can help at the S spot.

Bigby is a decent player. I don't think he'll ever be a pro bowler, but he can put some good games together sometimes.

Hush young GrassHopper else Skin will find you....and skin you for that logical statement about Bigby.

http://people.ee.duke.edu/~drsmith/cloaking/predator.jpg