BPA or Need - what did TT do?

[cheesner]

I keep seeing people say that TT changed and this draft was for need. I don't see it. Raji vrs Crabtree, I think they were rated about the same by the Packers. I think Crabtree is the better player but there were some character/lockerroom question about him that dropped him to even with Raji.

As far as Matthews goes - how can it be a need pick (reach) when they traded up for him? If the Packer board has him rated later, they probably would have waited for him at their pick. My bet is that they had him rated pretty high, even in the top 12.

The next few picks I see were typically rated higher than where the Packers took them.

The last 3 picks - well, they are just flyers. High risk/high reward type players because it will be tough to make the roster this season. Why take a safe choice on a guy who probably won't make the team. Try for a guy who has a very small chance at being very good.

I feel the draft was 100% BPA - just that the picks fortunately were at positions of need.

[ND72]

I think it was both. I think both BPA's were Needs...so it went both directions. I think you saw a more aggressive GM obviously in this draft to fill his needs through his best players being where they were in the draft.

[Lurker64]

I don't think either "BPA" or "Need" is really the right way to go about it. My way of thinking is that the correct draft pick is the guy who improves the roster the most. Don't reach for guys who aren't good value at the point where they're drafted, but always look for the "largest upgrade" at whatever position.

[wist43]

As has been said (speculated), TT did, in fact jump his draft board; which, of course, is completely out of character for him.

To me, this is the kind of move he needed to make, and the kind of move that I never thought he would.

I don't know what grading system they use, but for shits and giggles, assume Crabtree is rated at 8.9, and Raji 8.8... what's the difference??? Miniscule.

Raji plays a position of desperate need, and is a rare talent... likewise, Crabtree may be a rare talent as well, but 334 lbs DL that can move like Raji are much more difficult to come by than is a guy like Crabtree... lot's of Crabtree's out there - pun intended :lol:

Furthermore, Raji's impact improves an entire unit... makes everyone better on that side of the ball. Crabtree... well, may develop into a very good receiver in a couple of years, but simpy wouldn't have the kind of impact I expect from Raji.

TT had to pull the trigger on this pick... and I give him a lot of credit for doing so.

[retailguy]

TT had to pull the trigger on this pick... and I give him a lot of credit for doing so.

:shock: Who are you? And what have you done with Wist? :?

[Bossman641]

TT had to pull the trigger on this pick... and I give him a lot of credit for doing so.

:shock: Who are you? And what have you done with Wist? :?

Tex has been mysteriously quiet lately.......

[swede]

I'll fire off a post before I read what the rest of ya'll said.

I think the draft fell nicely for the Packers. They were able to strike a nice balance between BPA and need with their first two picks.

I thought it was cool that we had posters nailing a couple of Ted's picks 100 players deep in the draft; We are starting to figure this guy out in the middle rounds.

[Gunakor]

Both BPA and Need. We needed a NT, Raji was BPA. We needed an OLB, Matthews was BPA where we drafted him.

Many mocks had a couple of our later round pickups going much higher than they did, so I'd assume those to be BPA as well. And filled needs.

Both.

[Lurker64]

I don't think that NFL teams actually do arrange draft boards vertically like "this is the best player, this is the second best player, this is the third best player". I think they organize them horizontally.

That is, they rank all of the prospects by position: the best WRs, the best DTs, the best QBs, the best RBs, etc. Then you draw lines to demarcate tiers. So your top tier might have the top 2 QBs, the top RB, the top 3 DEs, the top 2 LBs, etc. Then you cross off guys as they become picked.

Then when it's time for you to make a pick, you look at all of the players left in the highest tier that still has players in it. All of those players are more or less ranked equally (they're in the same tier) and you just pick the one that you think will help the team the most.

This draft came to a point where TT was looking at the top NT and the top WR left in his elite tier. There's no point in trying to compare DTs to WRs when it comes "ranking prospects", just rank the WRs against each other and the DTs against each other, so Crabtree probably wasn't ranked above Raji and Raji probably wasn't ranked above Crabtree. It ultimately came down to Thompson breaking the tie (between at least two prospects) by the scales and by position.

[cheesner]

I won't argue that the players picked were at 'Need' positions, but I believe that is a coincidence. The players selected were likely the BPA when TT selected them.

[boiga]

I have to think that too many of our needs were filled for this not to be considered a "need" based draft. We needed big bodies in the D-Line, and we got them. We needed stronger prospects for the O-Line and we got them.

Sure, we were lucky to have scored some of the players where we did, but too many holes were filled for those players to all be the best player available at those moments. Coincidence doesn't stretch that far.

Thank goodness too, because if Ted and filled our roster with Crabtree and a bunch of other skill position WR's, RB's and QB's just because they were BPA, I'd have been pissed.

[Bretsky]

multiple outlets hinted that Crabtree was the BPA on the Packers board; outlets more credible than our viewpoints.

TT went Need with pick #9 and BPA on his board with pick 26.

TT probably had Raji graded out near Crab so he went the need route

But nobody will convince me he rated Raji higher than Crab; pure homerism IMO

With that being said, I've always been a win now guy so I'm kosher with need

[Joemailman]

Maybe TT decided to pick the guy who doesn't have a broken foot.

[Fritz]

I agree with Lurker...and Bretsky. I think, in general, Lurker nailed how it's done. But I also think that within a "tier" there are probably in some cases some ranking done. Not always, but in some cases. So most of the time if you have three or four guys in the same tier you can pick need, or trade down two or three spots and pick who's left.

However, I do think Bretsky's right - several sources seemed to indicatet that Crabtree was ranked highest. I mean, if you're the Lions you do need to decide that somebody is the best player, right? So maybe Thompson really, really thought Crabtree was the best player on the board. But maybe he thought that this was balanced out by the fact that he played a position that is not considered quite as crucial to the Packers as nose tackle - i.e., he was not needed as much. If for example you had this Kellen Winslow-type prospect, a most kick-ass tight end - is he really as valuable to your team as a Mark Sanchez-type QB prospect? Would anybody ever trade up to the top five or really, really far anywhere in the first round to grab a super-duper guard prospect?

Conceivably you could have a guard rated as the most kick ass, can't miss, ball-kickin' prospect ever ever, and nobody would draft the guy in the top five.

So, Lurker's right. And Bretsky, too.

[Joemailman]

I think it had a lot to do with scarcity. 330 pound guys who can move quickly and laterally are harder to find than athletic 6'2" wide receivers.

[Fritz]

I think it had a lot to do with scarcity. 330 pound guys who can move quickly and laterally are harder to find than athletic 6'2" wide receivers.

Hey, I said the same thing...in about a hundred paragraphs... :oops:

[bobblehead]

I don't think that NFL teams actually do arrange draft boards vertically like "this is the best player, this is the second best player, this is the third best player". I think they organize them horizontally.

That is, they rank all of the prospects by position: the best WRs, the best DTs, the best QBs, the best RBs, etc. Then you draw lines to demarcate tiers. So your top tier might have the top 2 QBs, the top RB, the top 3 DEs, the top 2 LBs, etc. Then you cross off guys as they become picked.

Then when it's time for you to make a pick, you look at all of the players left in the highest tier that still has players in it. All of those players are more or less ranked equally (they're in the same tier) and you just pick the one that you think will help the team the most.

This draft came to a point where TT was looking at the top NT and the top WR left in his elite tier. There's no point in trying to compare DTs to WRs when it comes "ranking prospects", just rank the WRs against each other and the DTs against each other, so Crabtree probably wasn't ranked above Raji and Raji probably wasn't ranked above Crabtree. It ultimately came down to Thompson breaking the tie (between at least two prospects) by the scales and by position.
Amazing...that is exactly how I organize my fantasy baseball big board :shock:

[RashanGary]

I agree with what Lurker said could have happened. I think they had them equal and went with the tougher to fill position and bigger need.

We've been saying all along we'd probably see more defense than offense because need was going to be the tie breaker. I think Raji is the best player in this draft, so I don't believe they had Crabtree rated higher at all.

[HarveyWallbangers]

multiple outlets hinted that Crabtree was the BPA on the Packers board; outlets more credible than our viewpoints.

Who other than McGinn? I just wonder how anybody would know this. I doubt Thompson would let it be known.

[HarveyWallbangers]

multiple outlets hinted that Crabtree was the BPA on the Packers board; outlets more credible than our viewpoints.

TT went Need with pick #9 and BPA on his board with pick 26.

TT probably had Raji graded out near Crab so he went the need route

But nobody will convince me he rated Raji higher than Crab; pure homerism IMO

With that being said, I've always been a win now guy so I'm kosher with need

Pure speculation.

[Bretsky]

multiple outlets hinted that Crabtree was the BPA on the Packers board; outlets more credible than our viewpoints.

Who other than McGinn? I just wonder how anybody would know this. I doubt Thompson would let it be known.


McGinn, Packer Plus, Dennis Krause and Wayne Larivee to name a few

[Bretsky]

multiple outlets hinted that Crabtree was the BPA on the Packers board; outlets more credible than our viewpoints.

TT went Need with pick #9 and BPA on his board with pick 26.

TT probably had Raji graded out near Crab so he went the need route

But nobody will convince me he rated Raji higher than Crab; pure homerism IMO

With that being said, I've always been a win now guy so I'm kosher with need

Pure speculation.


"fan"atic homerism is more speculation than sources who cover the Packers

[HarveyWallbangers]

"fan"atic homerism is more speculation than sources who cover the Packers

I don't buy that any of those guys saw the Packers board. If I had to guess, I'd bet both guys were near the top with little separating them. Thus, I don't buy the angle that Thompson bypassed his obvious best player available to draft need. I think need and BPA were pretty close on this one. I'm guessing that if Thompson really liked Crabtree a lot more, he would have taken him.

[Lurker64]

Thompson already confirmed that he doesn't arrange his board vertically with there being a "best player in the draft".

When asked: (In general terms, how does your board work? You talk about the best player available but do you also need to marry that with your needs?)


We have all the positions across a long wall, like this, and we always start with the receivers over here, and then it goes tight ends, tackles, guards, centers, quarterbacks, running backs, fullbacks, defensive ends, defensive tackles and so forth. You don't need me to go through the whole thing. And then we have, it would be horizontal, right? Horizontal lines going like this, and the very top horizontal line, anything above that would be first-round players, second-round players, third-round players, fourth-round players. And so the board is going to look like it does now, like there's guys at each position and there's a certain number of players in a lot of the rounds at those positions, and some rounds there may be a blank where there's no players in that particular round. And when you go through the draft, in a perfect world, if you've done your job properly, you sit there and you just let it come to you, and if it's your pick in the first round, you look up there and if you've got two guys, then you say OK there's the two guys we would take at this pick, which one do you want to take? Or if there are four guys, and then somebody calls and wants to move two spots up to your spot, then you think, well, you know - to answer this question about moving back - we've got four guys we'd like to have, we can trade back and we know we're going to get one of two. That's kind of the way it works.

So I doubt, for a second, that Thompson had a "best player in the draft" decided on his board, since his board isn't arranged like that. Crabtree was certainly the top player in the first column (that column being "wide receivers" as he said above), but that doesn't mean he was the best overall player on Thompson's board, just that he was the first player listed in the elite tier.

Source (http://www.packers.com/news/releases/2009/04/20/2/)

[cheesner]

"fan"atic homerism is more speculation than sources who cover the Packers

I don't buy that any of those guys saw the Packers board. If I had to guess, I'd bet both guys were near the top with little separating them. Thus, I don't buy the angle that Thompson bypassed his obvious best player available to draft need. I think need and BPA were pretty close on this one. I'm guessing that if Thompson really liked Crabtree a lot more, he would have taken him.I agree.

I think that Crabs is #1 or #2 on so many draft boards on the internet that people assume he must indeed be up there on the Packer board. But there are many instances that show the Packers board is not the same as everyone elses - like having Greg Jennings rated higher than Chad Jackson. This year we took TJ Lang and then Merideth 2 picks later, but most mocks had Jermon going before Lang further down the list.

From TTs quotes it sounded like they had some long discussions over which to draft, Raji or Crabtree. So it was close and maybe need was the tie breaker. It gets extremely difficult to compare the different qualities of two football players, let alone having them play such different positions.

[CaliforniaCheez]

Raji was a great fit. Imagine the flak Ted would have received for drafting another WR. In my mind no WR should be a top 10 pick.

Matthews in many mocks was going to the Texans at 15 as the second linebacker. Ted saw great value and grabbed it.

Meredith was always listed as a late 2nd rounder. Mayock had him 8th on the OT list. For Lang to be rated higher on the Packer board than Meredith was something. Lang was probably the highest rated OT on the board.

After Lang I'm very convinced it went highest rated player on the board.

If Ted was filling needs he might have drafted a TE or a Punter.

[Guiness]

The 'tier' system has been brought up a lot on this board. I'm guessing Raji and Crabtree were on the same tier is what it comes down to. Maybe there was another guy too.

Raji was at a position of pressing need, so either there were no offers from SF, or they just decide ranking + need = must have.

[SnakeLH2006]

multiple outlets hinted that Crabtree was the BPA on the Packers board; outlets more credible than our viewpoints.

TT went Need with pick #9 and BPA on his board with pick 26.

TT probably had Raji graded out near Crab so he went the need route

But nobody will convince me he rated Raji higher than Crab; pure homerism IMO

With that being said, I've always been a win now guy so I'm kosher with need

Pure speculation.

Exactly, according to PackerChatters, it's a rumor...no wait...hold on...confirmed that Joe Arrigo killed Bedard thus making up shit about that Crabtree rumor of #1 guy on the Packer board.

Ok..sorry, that was fun..Just fucking around, but I think it was posted very well by many on here if Crabs was an 8.9 and BJ a 8.8 it makes sense to fill a dire ass position of need for similar potential returns. A great draft that got us at least 2 starters, maybe 4. (BJ, Clay, FB dude, and maybe one of the OT's).

Snake hates to quote (paraphrase) JSO but they had a link somewhere where TT was quoted about going for needs this year (but worked out well as they were close to BPA in his book) and trading up.

[Lurker64]

You also have to consider the possibility that the "Green Bay would take Crabtree if he's there; Crabtree is the #1 player on Green Bay's board" might be along the lines of the standard "pre-draft lie" that's circulated by teams in order to adjust the value of certain players and/or convince other teams to do something that they might not otherwise do.

Green Bay had every reason to hope that Crabtree went before they picked, since that would make one more player to fall to the Packers, and would have every reason to give the impression that they were going to take Crabtree as that might get another team to offer to break the bank in order to get Crabtree if he's there at #9 (or at least convince San Francisco to give up something to move up one spot). It wouldn't even be much of a stretch, as all you have to do is make sure the media is aware that Green Bay thinks Michael Crabtree is a very, very good player (which is true) without even mentioning the fact that there's no way in hell the Packers were going to draft him.

I mean, these sorts of misinformation campaigns before the draft are very, very common.
-The Patriots are going to trade up into the top 10 to grab an offensive player (rumored to be Percy Harvin).
-The Rams have already bought Mark Sanchez a plane ticket.
-The Lions had a deal in place with Aaron Curry.
-The Chiefs will draft Sanchez in order to hold his rights to trade him away.
-The Seahawks are very, very high on Mark Sanchez.

All things that were rumored before the draft, none of which came to pass.

[BobDobbs]

The team definitely has a game plan going into the draft. And as their comments show they use a tier system. But obviously they must have some understanding that they want some players within the tiers more than others. Is it position or overall talent I don't know. I do think that they liked Crabtree better than more than Raji, because of MM and TT's post draft interviews.

Both of them were pretty relaxed, the draft is over so there isn't as much need to spin and misinform. McCarthy said that when then Jets traded up it was pretty apparent that they would have Crabtree and Raji on the board. He gets a little glazed over in his eyes when he talks about the discussions they had about the Big 4 and 5. Of course, he's an offensive coach so that's going to turn him on.

Ted said something interesting. He talked glowingly about Crabtree and then said they had each player rated 'about' the same. Obviously I'm parsing his comment, but I think that means there was a difference. Why even make that qualification if your BPA and Need match up. It's not even a discussion at that point.

I think if they were picking a team from scratch they go Crabtree. But we're not. As was mentioned before, Raji probably improves the team more than Crabtree and that should be the criterion for a draft pick.

[swede]

Cheesner and Bob Dobbs: Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

You have both nailed it. This situation was a possibility all along and had been carefully covered before the 9th pick came up. This was a close call with the edge going to the player type that was more rare and that would have a greater impact on the success of the team.

[Partial]

I think that without a doubt the best pure prospect on their board was da Crabman. I'm sure this was the case for every single GM in the NFL.

However, clearly need factors in. The Pack don't need a receiver currently. The needed a DE. They drafted a guy that can play DE and was a notch below Crabtree.

Solid tradeoff if Raji becomes a stud.

[sharpe1027]

Question: You always say you take the best player available, but you also filled needs? Did you tweak your approach at all?

Answer: No, we stick with it. I have never said need doesn't factor in, but we went into this draft feeling like we didn't have to draft anybody at any position.



I think that is what most people have been trying to say all along.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think that without a doubt the best pure prospect on their board was da Crabman.

Of course, you do. Why? Because you want to believe that. I don't think anybody knows. It's kind of silly. Wouldn't the fact that Thompson took Raji over Crabtree prove otherwise? If the Packers knew they'd take Raji over Crabtree if both were available, wouldn't they just set up their board to have Raji ranked higher than Crabtree (or on the same level)? Or do you think they never thought about the possibility that both would fall to them?

[sharpe1027]

Or do you think they never thought about the possibility that both would fall to them?

They have said they expected both to be available once Cleveland traded out.

[CaliforniaCheez]

If you remember Ted's predraft press conference he said they run through different scenarios with the coaches.

If player A and B are available which do you like better?

If player B and D are available which do you like better?

They plan out some "tie breaking" scenarios.

Ted Thompson should never be booed for his draft.

[Bretsky]

"fan"atic homerism is more speculation than sources who cover the Packers

I don't buy that any of those guys saw the Packers board. If I had to guess, I'd bet both guys were near the top with little separating them. Thus, I don't buy the angle that Thompson bypassed his obvious best player available to draft need. I think need and BPA were pretty close on this one. I'm guessing that if Thompson really liked Crabtree a lot more, he would have taken him.


Who said they saw the Packers board; safe to say they had some access to inside members of the organization...possibly scouts :!:

certainly better access to our homeristic speculation

[RashanGary]

Who said they saw the Packers board; safe to say they had some access to inside members of the organization...possibly scouts :!:

certainly better access to our homeristic speculation

Sounds like you're in the minority here, B.

Raji looks like the best player. He's a brute. I think he's the best player in this draft.

[Bretsky]

Who said they saw the Packers board; safe to say they had some access to inside members of the organization...possibly scouts :!:

certainly better access to our homeristic speculation

Sounds like you're in the minority here, B.

Raji looks like the best player. He's a brute. I think he's the best player in this draft.


Yes, as usual I'm taking the anti homer view so I'm in the minority

But I'm happy with Raji; we would have all been happy with Raji a few months ago when we speculated how dam cool it would be if a great talent at a position of desperate need.

[RashanGary]

Yes, I didn't even want to get my hopes up about Raji. I thought there was no way he'd be there.


"Raji can play any way he wants to play," said Bill Polian, president of the Indianapolis Colts. "He's probably more like Sapp in a 350-pound body. Raji isn't that fast, but he's fast. Or he would be a moving-type nose tackle."

"This guy is more athletic than Gilbert Brown," Polian said. "He gets tired but he can rush the passer when he's geared up and fresh. He's a freak. But keep in mind that he's got a weight problem and it's always going to be there."

The squatty Raji, who stands 6 feet 1½ inches and weighed 330 pounds a month ago, is the only legitimate candidate to play nose tackle in the draft, according to Phil Savage, former general manager of the Cleveland Browns.

"Raji has a low center of gravity and can move up and down the line of scrimmage," Savage said. "I was really impressed with him."



Yeah. Raji is rare and unique. He instantly changes this defense. I like what Polian said best. Right now, Raji is best when he's rested and going at the QB. The guy is going to be tough to stop inside, especially since we have Pickett to keep him fresh. It's going to be like Jolly/Corey Williams of a couple years ago. Pickett is going to play base and Raji is going to terrorize the QB. As Raji loses his burst and quickness, he'll settle into an elite plugger at NT. Right now, I think he's an elite pass rusher inside and should be used as such.

Polian calls him a "freak". He's obviously one of the elite physical talents in this draft and he's great at football too. Like I said, I think he's the best player in this whole draft.

[vince]

Who said they saw the Packers board; safe to say they had some access to inside members of the organization...possibly scouts :!:

certainly better access to our homeristic speculation

Sounds like you're in the minority here, B.

Raji looks like the best player. He's a brute. I think he's the best player in this draft.


Yes, as usual I'm taking the anti homer view so I'm in the minority

But I'm happy with Raji; we would have all been happy with Raji a few months ago when we speculated how dam cool it would be if a great talent at a position of desperate need.
Your Crabtree homerism is forcing you to ignore the facts as they played out in reality.

No-one on the scouting staff is likely to leak real information to the press that could undermine waht the team actually wants to do one night before the draft. Believing that is either naivete or Crabby-envy.

[Bretsky]

Who said they saw the Packers board; safe to say they had some access to inside members of the organization...possibly scouts :!:

certainly better access to our homeristic speculation

Sounds like you're in the minority here, B.

Raji looks like the best player. He's a brute. I think he's the best player in this draft.


Yes, as usual I'm taking the anti homer view so I'm in the minority

But I'm happy with Raji; we would have all been happy with Raji a few months ago when we speculated how dam cool it would be if a great talent at a position of desperate need.
Your Crabtree homerism is forcing you to ignore the facts as they played out in reality.

No-one on the scouting staff is likely to leak real information to the press that could undermine waht the team actually wants to do one night before the draft. Believing that is either naivete or Crabby-envy.


so all of these sources that reported these things pre-draft are making 100% of it up ?

[vince]

Who said they saw the Packers board; safe to say they had some access to inside members of the organization...possibly scouts :!:

certainly better access to our homeristic speculation

Sounds like you're in the minority here, B.

Raji looks like the best player. He's a brute. I think he's the best player in this draft.


Yes, as usual I'm taking the anti homer view so I'm in the minority

But I'm happy with Raji; we would have all been happy with Raji a few months ago when we speculated how dam cool it would be if a great talent at a position of desperate need.
Your Crabtree homerism is forcing you to ignore the facts as they played out in reality.

No-one on the scouting staff is likely to leak real information to the press that could undermine waht the team actually wants to do one night before the draft. Believing that is either naivete or Crabby-envy.


so all of these sources that reported these things pre-draft are making 100% of it up ?No. I think someone gave one of them a teaser to throw others off the Packer draft trail. Then the rest read or heard what that guy said and echoed it until it became a perceived truth - just as the Packers intended for it to become on the eve of the draft.

But that's obviously speculation. What we know for sure is that Crabtree was available and the Packers passed on him. If he was actually their "top guy on the board" as these "sources" said, that clearly wouldn't have happened. But it did.

[The Shadow]

I think Thompson and his staff are are savvy enough to keep their cards tightly in hand. A lot of reporter stuff presuming to have insight on 'inside' thinking is pure wishful thinking.

[vince]

I wouldn't be surprised in Ol' Wayne Larivee wasn't in on the charade. Don't the Packers own the Packer Radio Network? If so, he'd be paid by the team, so we know where his allegiance lies. Follow the money.

At minimum, if the information were real, he would likely feel a professional obligation not to be undermining the interests of the organization that pays his bills by blabbing freely through public media outlets about the Packers draft strategy the night before the draft.

[cheesner]

Who said they saw the Packers board; safe to say they had some access to inside members of the organization...possibly scouts :!:

certainly better access to our homeristic speculation

Sounds like you're in the minority here, B.

Raji looks like the best player. He's a brute. I think he's the best player in this draft.


Yes, as usual I'm taking the anti homer view so I'm in the minority

But I'm happy with Raji; we would have all been happy with Raji a few months ago when we speculated how dam cool it would be if a great talent at a position of desperate need.
Your Crabtree homerism is forcing you to ignore the facts as they played out in reality.

No-one on the scouting staff is likely to leak real information to the press that could undermine waht the team actually wants to do one night before the draft. Believing that is either naivete or Crabby-envy.


so all of these sources that reported these things pre-draft are making 100% of it up ?

It only hurts the Packers to have this information out there. Therefore the Packers would likely not allow the truth to get out. The reports on what the Packer draft board look like are pure speculation.

I happen to know that Thompson will not allow any of his people to say anything about who they may select. Not the players, interenet rumor mongers, scouts from other teams, and certainly not the press. Thompson also refuses to do anything 'not above board' meaning no fake rumors or any form of deception.

[Bretsky]

How do you know the last two points to be true ?

[SnakeLH2006]

Yes, I didn't even want to get my hopes up about Raji. I thought there was no way he'd be there.


"Raji can play any way he wants to play," said Bill Polian, president of the Indianapolis Colts. "He's probably more like Sapp in a 350-pound body. Raji isn't that fast, but he's fast. Or he would be a moving-type nose tackle."

"This guy is more athletic than Gilbert Brown," Polian said. "He gets tired but he can rush the passer when he's geared up and fresh. He's a freak. But keep in mind that he's got a weight problem and it's always going to be there."

The squatty Raji, who stands 6 feet 1½ inches and weighed 330 pounds a month ago, is the only legitimate candidate to play nose tackle in the draft, according to Phil Savage, former general manager of the Cleveland Browns.

"Raji has a low center of gravity and can move up and down the line of scrimmage," Savage said. "I was really impressed with him."



Yeah. Raji is rare and unique. He instantly changes this defense. I like what Polian said best. Right now, Raji is best when he's rested and going at the QB. The guy is going to be tough to stop inside, especially since we have Pickett to keep him fresh. It's going to be like Jolly/Corey Williams of a couple years ago. Pickett is going to play base and Raji is going to terrorize the QB. As Raji loses his burst and quickness, he'll settle into an elite plugger at NT. Right now, I think he's an elite pass rusher inside and should be used as such.

Polian calls him a "freak". He's obviously one of the elite physical talents in this draft and he's great at football too. Like I said, I think he's the best player in this whole draft.

Unbelievable post JH. Word for word (without Snake's funny quips of course) this is exactly what I felt too. Good stuff. Raji is a rare freak, but I don't know about him looking like a weight issue dude. He looks like a muscled tree trunk. Far from "Gravy Train" Grady or even "Manboobs" Smith from this draft. Regardless of need, even, Snake had been eyeing this dude for the last year as a unique talent I didn't think we'd have a chance to nab at #9 (till the failed drug test thing came out)..then lock n' load baby!

[sharpe1027]

Yes, as usual I'm taking the anti homer view so I'm in the minority

But I'm happy with Raji; we would have all been happy with Raji a few months ago when we speculated how dam cool it would be if a great talent at a position of desperate need.

Funny how your view is anti-homer and anyone who disagrees is a homer. Basically you are the objective and anyone who disagrees is not objective and being a "homer." It may make you feel warm an fuzzy inside, but it doesn't make your position any more right.

I, for one, don't think that Raji is necessarily the best player in the draft. People who are saying that are pretending to know more than they do.

On the other side, IMO, a few pre-draft rumors don't outweigh the fact that they picked Raji. However, they pick with need as a consideration, always have, always will. Basically, they weighed all the factors and picked the player they thought would help them win. This discussion on whether or not Raji or Crabtree was "higher" is meaningless because THEY PLAY COMPLETELY DIFFERENT POSITIONS. The Packers don't use a vertical draft board, they rank players at each position and then use a horizontal selection process between the best player at each position. Inevitably that takes the position into account.

I frankly don't even understand what the argument is. They don't draft without considering "need." Never have, never will. What they won't do is draft a guy just because he plays position X. Common sense.

[Bretsky]

Yes, as usual I'm taking the anti homer view so I'm in the minority

But I'm happy with Raji; we would have all been happy with Raji a few months ago when we speculated how dam cool it would be if a great talent at a position of desperate need.

Funny how your view is anti-homer and anyone who disagrees is a homer. Basically you are the objective and anyone who disagrees is not objective and being a "homer." It may make you feel warm an fuzzy inside, but it doesn't make your position any more right.

I, for one, don't think that Raji is necessarily the best player in the draft. People who are saying that are pretending to know more than they do.

On the other side, IMO, a few pre-draft rumors don't outweigh the fact that they picked Raji. However, they pick with need as a consideration, always have, always will. Basically, they weighed all the factors and picked the player they thought would help them win. This discussion on whether or not Raji or Crabtree was "higher" is meaningless because THEY PLAY COMPLETELY DIFFERENT POSITIONS. The Packers don't use a vertical draft board, they rank players at each position and then use a horizontal selection process between the best player at each position. Inevitably that takes the position into account.

I frankly don't even understand what the argument is. They don't draft without considering "need." Never have, never will. What they won't do is draft a guy just because he plays position X. Common sense.



Great Post

I would not consider everyone who disagrees with me a homer though. I thought you gave a very well balanced view and I would not consider that homerism.