""MATTHEWS WAS A MUST HAVE"" For TT

[Bretsky]

Good article

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/44237962.html


Couple notes

KUDOS to TT for going for it
another reference to Crab being the highest graded player on their board :wink:

[cpk1994]

Good article

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/44237962.html


Couple notes

KUDOS to TT for going for it
another reference to Crab being the highest graded player on their board :wink:

Becuase if McGinn didn't continue to beat that dead horse, he would have to admit he was wrong. McGinn will never admit wrong, so he will continue to claim Crabtree was highest on the board even though TT has never said one way or antoher what was truly the case.

[MJZiggy]

Nice article. I hope Dekker can get it worked out, but if he doesn't I know one of his likely professors at Gtown...

[retailguy]

Good article

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/44237962.html


Couple notes

KUDOS to TT for going for it
another reference to Crab being the highest graded player on their board :wink:

Becuase if McGinn didn't continue to beat that dead horse, he would have to admit he was wrong. McGinn will never admit wrong, so he will continue to claim Crabtree was highest on the board even though TT has never said one way or antoher what was truly the case.

How do you know this? :?:

[Brando19]

Good article

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/44237962.html


Couple notes

KUDOS to TT for going for it
another reference to Crab being the highest graded player on their board :wink:

Becuase if McGinn didn't continue to beat that dead horse, he would have to admit he was wrong. McGinn will never admit wrong, so he will continue to claim Crabtree was highest on the board even though TT has never said one way or antoher what was truly the case.

How do you know this? :?:

TT said in his first post draft interview that BJ and Crab were rated the same on their board.

[Lurker64]

Good article

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/44237962.html


Couple notes

KUDOS to TT for going for it
another reference to Crab being the highest graded player on their board :wink:

Becuase if McGinn didn't continue to beat that dead horse, he would have to admit he was wrong. McGinn will never admit wrong, so he will continue to claim Crabtree was highest on the board even though TT has never said one way or antoher what was truly the case.

How do you know this? :?:

TT said in his first post draft interview that BJ and Crab were rated the same on their board.

I think this can be resolved by the facts that:

1) Ted Thompson has confirmed that the Packers use a horizontal board, ranking by position rather than "best player, second best player, third best player, etc."

2) Superlatives are not necessarily unique. There are infinitely many shortest paths between the north pole and the south pole, for example (without tunneling, that is.)

So can we just put this behind us and say that both B.J. Raji and Michael Crabtree were highest rated players on Ted Thompson's board. Both were the highest rated at their positions, and both were given the same grade by Thompson and his scouts.

[Partial]

Good article

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/44237962.html


Couple notes

KUDOS to TT for going for it
another reference to Crab being the highest graded player on their board :wink:

Becuase if McGinn didn't continue to beat that dead horse, he would have to admit he was wrong. McGinn will never admit wrong, so he will continue to claim Crabtree was highest on the board even though TT has never said one way or antoher what was truly the case.

Why are you assuming that what he says isn't true? That's quite a leap. With that said, I'm with B on kudos to TT for going up and grabbing his guy. Love da pick. TT probably loves him more since he gave up a ton to get him.

Lurker, thats quite a leap. I think the logical answer is "Of course he isn't going to cut down the confidence of his new DT. 'Sure, Crabtree is the better athlete and higher ranked player, but we went with the worse player because he can plug a hole' isn't exactly giving the youngens confidence.

[pbmax]

The Packers, like most teams, have grades and tiers. Without a grade, you could not put someone into an accurate tier. Without the tier, you wouldn't know when to trade up or down.

So this is a rare PackerRats thread where everyone is right. Collect you participation certificate at the Home page! We should sticky it so everyone can see :lol:

And I am sure Ted is choosing to share information that sheds good light on his players. But others have seen the Packers board and McGinn could have gotten his info from a number of sources. He also said the decision for Raji over Crabtree had been made earlier. And that probably means there were others who participated in the discussions.

[cpk1994]

Good article

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/44237962.html


Couple notes

KUDOS to TT for going for it
another reference to Crab being the highest graded player on their board :wink:

Becuase if McGinn didn't continue to beat that dead horse, he would have to admit he was wrong. McGinn will never admit wrong, so he will continue to claim Crabtree was highest on the board even though TT has never said one way or antoher what was truly the case.
How do you know this? :?:McGinn continnues to make this claim though no one has backed him up on it, most importantly TT. TT has never claimed Crabtree was highest on the board. He would never claim anyone was highest on his board.

[cpk1994]

Good article

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/44237962.html


Couple notes

KUDOS to TT for going for it
another reference to Crab being the highest graded player on their board :wink:

Becuase if McGinn didn't continue to beat that dead horse, he would have to admit he was wrong. McGinn will never admit wrong, so he will continue to claim Crabtree was highest on the board even though TT has never said one way or antoher what was truly the case.

Why are you assuming that what he says isn't true? That's quite a leap. With that said, I'm with B on kudos to TT for going up and grabbing his guy. Love da pick. TT probably loves him more since he gave up a ton to get him.

Lurker, thats quite a leap. I think the logical answer is "Of course he isn't going to cut down the confidence of his new DT. 'Sure, Crabtree is the better athlete and higher ranked player, but we went with the worse player because he can plug a hole' isn't exactly giving the youngens confidence.I have no idea if he being truthful or not. But because no one from the organization, most importantly TT, has claimed whether or not Crabtree was highest on the board, McGinn is making the assumption.

[Lurker64]

It's also probably useful to draw a distinction between "highest grade" and "highest player on your board", since those aren't necessarily the same. Every player gets a grade from scouts based on a variety of factors, and in general as rule the higher the grade a player has the higher on the board he goes.

Thompson never claimed to be a strict "take the highest graded player at every opportunity" drafter and, in fact, nobody is since that's the way to end up drafting 7 quarterbacks every year. The players are ranked within their position generally by their grade (though it's reasonable to move down a highly graded player due to some red flag, or move up a lower graded player due to something about him you really like), but the decisions of "okay we have the nth best cornerback and the mth best running back on the board, which one do we take?" aren't made when you draw up the board. You either make those decisions on the fly ("okay, we have a pick coming up soon... we're probably looking at these three guys, who do we like?") or you do so in advance if there are situations you anticipate coming up.

I assume that Thompson and his staff evaluated every single combination of players that could potentially be available at #9 and decided which guy to take in that situation. So to think that they didn't anticipate both Raji and Crabtree potentially being available is pretty silly. I'm sure they had the decision made in advance, but still Crabtree actually being there gave Thompson pause, but he ended up picking the similarly graded player with a higher position value.

[Partial]

I have no idea if he being truthful or not. But because no one from the organization, most importantly TT, has claimed whether or not Crabtree was highest on the board, McGinn is making the assumption.

Assumption? He's getting the information from a source within the organization, as he has said on numerous occasions. Big difference from assumption.

[The_Dude]

"Matthews reported Thursday weighing 250, 10 more than he was at the combine and 5 more than at pro day.

"I think it's a pretty good number, but I can get bigger," he said. "Within the next year I can get to 255."

--I thought he was going to be small for a 3-4 OLB, doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

[Lurker64]

The reveal that the Packers were interested in Pettigrew and Matthews (as well as Oher) at #9 was very interesting, to be honest. I never thought Thompson was that high on Pettigrew (he must have been special in Thompson's eyes since we didn't sniff a TE at any point later on, and we already spent a high pick on one last year), and Matthews was certainly higher on Thompson's board than I anticipated (though to be honest, I had him as the #2 OLB prospect, and the #1 3-4 OLB prospect on my personal board).

I do wonder, though, how some of this information is disseminated to sources who eventually get it to the media. The Packers never confirm or deny any of these sorts of things, so I wonder how anybody is sure what's true.

[Administrator]

I guess we can be "kinda" sure about both Matthews & Raji. Ted traded up for Matthews and gave up a lot, so it's clear he really, really liked him. And he actually took Raji at 9 over a bunch of other quality prospects.

I'm really excited about this draft.

[pbmax]

"Matthews reported Thursday weighing 250, 10 more than he was at the combine and 5 more than at pro day.

"I think it's a pretty good number, but I can get bigger," he said. "Within the next year I can get to 255."

--I thought he was going to be small for a 3-4 OLB, doesn't seem to be the case anymore.
He is tall for a LB, other than other 3-4 OLBs. He can probably carry that weight pretty well. You can see in the intro press conference picture he is 1.5-2 inches taller than Raji.

[packer4life]

Nice article. I hope Dekker can get it worked out, but if he doesn't I know one of his likely professors at Gtown...

i went to that med school...go hoyas!

[MJZiggy]

Did you happen to take neurobiology? Study Alzheimers or memory disorders? Perhaps we have a mutual friend...Ironic part is that he can't remember squat.

[packer4life]

Did you happen to take neurobiology? Study Alzheimers or memory disorders? Perhaps we have a mutual friend...Ironic part is that he can't remember squat.

neurobio wasn't one of our med school courses...we did take neuro and biochem but as separate entities

[Sparkey]

I have no idea if he being truthful or not. But because no one from the organization, most importantly TT, has claimed whether or not Crabtree was highest on the board, McGinn is making the assumption.

Assumption? He's getting the information from a source within the organization, as he has said on numerous occasions. Big difference from assumption.

Yeah, man. Like reporters never lie so stop it! McGinn said so, and so it is!! :lol:

[KYPack]

"Matthews reported Thursday weighing 250, 10 more than he was at the combine and 5 more than at pro day.

"I think it's a pretty good number, but I can get bigger," he said. "Within the next year I can get to 255."

--I thought he was going to be small for a 3-4 OLB, doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

Love most of the tape I've seen on CMIII. He's fast, quick and super aggressive. I had the same reservations regarding his size. He seems a little scrawny. His dad and uncle filled out well, I think this kid will, too. I think he may become our playmaking backer, but it will take a year or two for him to fill out.

[retailguy]

"Matthews reported Thursday weighing 250, 10 more than he was at the combine and 5 more than at pro day.

"I think it's a pretty good number, but I can get bigger," he said. "Within the next year I can get to 255."

--I thought he was going to be small for a 3-4 OLB, doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

Love most of the tape I've seen on CMIII. He's fast, quick and super aggressive. I had the same reservations regarding his size. He seems a little scrawny. His dad and uncle filled out well, I think this kid will, too. I think he may become our playmaking backer, but it will take a year or two for him to fill out.

KGB was fairly successful for a number of years at that weight. Would've been interesting to see KGB in his prime in a 3-4. I wonder what kind of OLB he'd have made....

[cpk1994]

I have no idea if he being truthful or not. But because no one from the organization, most importantly TT, has claimed whether or not Crabtree was highest on the board, McGinn is making the assumption.

Assumption? He's getting the information from a source within the organization, as he has said on numerous occasions. Big difference from assumption.Was that the same source that told him the Packers would definitely take Crabtree if available? McGinn should know better that around draft time that teams are more apt to lie about their intentions.

[pbmax]

I have no idea if he being truthful or not. But because no one from the organization, most importantly TT, has claimed whether or not Crabtree was highest on the board, McGinn is making the assumption.

Assumption? He's getting the information from a source within the organization, as he has said on numerous occasions. Big difference from assumption.

Yeah, man. Like reporters never lie so stop it! McGinn said so, and so it is!! :lol:
Reporters, true reporters, (not commentators, radio hosts, talking heads on NFL Live)... make their livelihood by having the trust of readers AND their sources. You can't burn either one and expect to last. McGinn clearly has this from a source. The exact meaning of the fact, whether it truly means Thompson changed a strategy or not, remains up to debate I believe.

[pbmax]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/43659322.html

McGinn reported Crabby at the top of the Packers draft board before the draft. It was an informed guess that he would fall to 9 if he got past the Bengals and Raiders. The pick was based on Thompson going BPA to all appearances (Jordy Nelson, Harrell, Aaron Rodgers) in his other drafts. It was entirely reasonable. Similar speculation happened during the week before Rodgers draft. Several people pointed out that if he got out of the top eight, he might fall into the 20s. Thompson said they had done a mock like that.

It is far more likely that no one in charge of a draft is entirely BPA or need. They are concerned with value, hierarchy or tier of available talent, and matching the best available talent with need. Unless Crabtree blew every other prospect off the board, Raji is a sensible pick.

If Crabtree becomes the next Sterling Sharpe, then Raji's pick is under the microscope. But elite WRs and DTs have a high bust rate, so we'll probably get a good answer in a short amount of time.

[Partial]

"Matthews reported Thursday weighing 250, 10 more than he was at the combine and 5 more than at pro day.

"I think it's a pretty good number, but I can get bigger," he said. "Within the next year I can get to 255."

--I thought he was going to be small for a 3-4 OLB, doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

Love most of the tape I've seen on CMIII. He's fast, quick and super aggressive. I had the same reservations regarding his size. He seems a little scrawny. His dad and uncle filled out well, I think this kid will, too. I think he may become our playmaking backer, but it will take a year or two for him to fill out.

I agree with this 100%.

[mraynrand]

I guess we can be "kinda" sure about both Matthews & Raji. Ted traded up for Matthews and gave up a lot, so it's clear he really, really liked him. And he actually took Raji at 9 over a bunch of other quality prospects.

I'm really excited about this draft.

It may be just me, but every time I see 'Administrator' it feels like I'm driving next to a police car. :)

[mission]

I guess we can be "kinda" sure about both Matthews & Raji. Ted traded up for Matthews and gave up a lot, so it's clear he really, really liked him. And he actually took Raji at 9 over a bunch of other quality prospects.

I'm really excited about this draft.

It may be just me, but every time I see 'Administrator' it feels like I'm driving next to a police car. :)


:lol: :lol: It's not just you... I looked down to see if I had my belt on.

[mraynrand]

I guess we can be "kinda" sure about both Matthews & Raji. Ted traded up for Matthews and gave up a lot, so it's clear he really, really liked him. And he actually took Raji at 9 over a bunch of other quality prospects.

I'm really excited about this draft.

It may be just me, but every time I see 'Administrator' it feels like I'm driving next to a police car. :)


:lol: :lol: It's not just you... I looked down to see if I had my belt on.

I hope you meant seat belt! :shock:

[mission]

I guess we can be "kinda" sure about both Matthews & Raji. Ted traded up for Matthews and gave up a lot, so it's clear he really, really liked him. And he actually took Raji at 9 over a bunch of other quality prospects.

I'm really excited about this draft.

It may be just me, but every time I see 'Administrator' it feels like I'm driving next to a police car. :)


:lol: :lol: It's not just you... I looked down to see if I had my belt on.

I hope you meant seat belt! :shock:

Why would that matter? It's not like I wear pants while I drive anyway ... :oops:

[Fritz]

I still think about how much Thompson gave up to get Matthews. It still seems like an awful lot, but if Thompson had the guy graded as a top 15 pick, and really wanted Matthews, then once he slipped to the mid-20's he must've gotten the blood pumping, wondering if he could get the player he wanted.

I suppose he figured that NE could ask for so much because if TT passed, the Patriots would probably be happy to pick the guy. The bottom line is that Teddy fell in love, and he paid the price. Time will tell if he's a Brett Favre or a BJ Sander.

[KYPack]

I guess we can be "kinda" sure about both Matthews & Raji. Ted traded up for Matthews and gave up a lot, so it's clear he really, really liked him. And he actually took Raji at 9 over a bunch of other quality prospects.

I'm really excited about this draft.

It may be just me, but every time I see 'Administrator' it feels like I'm driving next to a police car. :)

Don't forget to check the ash tray.

[mraynrand]

I still think about how much Thompson gave up to get Matthews. It still seems like an awful lot, but if Thompson had the guy graded as a top 15 pick, and really wanted Matthews, then once he slipped to the mid-20's he must've gotten the blood pumping, wondering if he could get the player he wanted.

I suppose he figured that NE could ask for so much because if TT passed, the Patriots would probably be happy to pick the guy. The bottom line is that Teddy fell in love, and he paid the price. Time will tell if he's a Brett Favre or a BJ Sander.

Seems closer to the move Shermy made to reach for Javon Walker. Thompson's strategy of accumulating 12 picks each year is unsustainable year after year because he seems to pick reasonably well and the Packers invest in coaching up their own picks, so they retain a lot of their picks. Every once in a while it seems as thought he can cluster a few picks on one guy - to get an impact player. But he can't do it every year, or he'll upset his own philosophy of building primarily and heavily through the draft. And when you package a number of picks on one guy, you really have to be right about that guy, or it will come back to bite you.

[Fritz]

Agreed.

[Partial]

Why would that matter? It's not like I wear pants while I drive anyway ... :oops:

True ballerz wear the driving sock?

[rbaloha1]

I still think about how much Thompson gave up to get Matthews. It still seems like an awful lot, but if Thompson had the guy graded as a top 15 pick, and really wanted Matthews, then once he slipped to the mid-20's he must've gotten the blood pumping, wondering if he could get the player he wanted.

I suppose he figured that NE could ask for so much because if TT passed, the Patriots would probably be happy to pick the guy. The bottom line is that Teddy fell in love, and he paid the price. Time will tell if he's a Brett Favre or a BJ Sander.

Seems closer to the move Shermy made to reach for Javon Walker. Thompson's strategy of accumulating 12 picks each year is unsustainable year after year because he seems to pick reasonably well and the Packers invest in coaching up their own picks, so they retain a lot of their picks. Every once in a while it seems as thought he can cluster a few picks on one guy - to get an impact player. But he can't do it every year, or he'll upset his own philosophy of building primarily and heavily through the draft. And when you package a number of picks on one guy, you really have to be right about that guy, or it will come back to bite you.

On the surface it appears to be a Sherman type move. The difference is the Packers have an outstanding young talented roster which requires fine tuning.

Sherman overestimated his roster and always felt he was a few players away from reaching a super bowl. Obviously he was wrong.

[Gunakor]

I still think about how much Thompson gave up to get Matthews. It still seems like an awful lot, but if Thompson had the guy graded as a top 15 pick, and really wanted Matthews, then once he slipped to the mid-20's he must've gotten the blood pumping, wondering if he could get the player he wanted.

I suppose he figured that NE could ask for so much because if TT passed, the Patriots would probably be happy to pick the guy. The bottom line is that Teddy fell in love, and he paid the price. Time will tell if he's a Brett Favre or a BJ Sander.

Seems closer to the move Shermy made to reach for Javon Walker. Thompson's strategy of accumulating 12 picks each year is unsustainable year after year because he seems to pick reasonably well and the Packers invest in coaching up their own picks, so they retain a lot of their picks. Every once in a while it seems as thought he can cluster a few picks on one guy - to get an impact player. But he can't do it every year, or he'll upset his own philosophy of building primarily and heavily through the draft. And when you package a number of picks on one guy, you really have to be right about that guy, or it will come back to bite you.

On the surface it appears to be a Sherman type move. The difference is the Packers have an outstanding young talented roster which requires fine tuning.

Sherman overestimated his roster and always felt he was a few players away from reaching a super bowl. Obviously he was wrong.

Well, not exactly. He might have been right. Those few players he brought in to put them over the top weren't always very good football players. Had he gotten better football players, who knows.

[hoosier]

It is far more likely that no one in charge of a draft is entirely BPA or need. They are concerned with value, hierarchy or tier of available talent, and matching the best available talent with need. Unless Crabtree blew every other prospect off the board, Raji is a sensible pick.

If Crabtree becomes the next Sterling Sharpe, then Raji's pick is under the microscope. But elite WRs and DTs have a high bust rate, so we'll probably get a good answer in a short amount of time.

I read a comparison of how 1st round WRs and 1st round DTs have fared over the last five years or so. If I remember correctly only 6 out of 16 WRs picked in round 1 turned out not to be busts. I don't remember the bust rate on DTs but it was significantly lower. Given that quality WRs are relatively easier to find than quality DTs (especially NTs), the choice between Raji and Crabtree seems to me like a no brainer. I will continue to say that even if Crabtree turns out to be Jerry Rice II and Raji disappoints--while it may be true that you can't really evaluate a draft until season 3, when it comes to evaluating draft day decisions there are situations when you can't be a results monger.

[mission]

Why would that matter? It's not like I wear pants while I drive anyway ... :oops:

True ballerz wear the driving sock?

LOL, I'm not sure! I like hangin out, yaknowatimean?

[Zool]

Why would that matter? It's not like I wear pants while I drive anyway ... :oops:

True ballerz wear the driving sock?

LOL, I'm not sure! I like hangin out, yaknowatimean?

Did you happen to be on the Lions coaching staff a couple years ago?

[mission]

Why would that matter? It's not like I wear pants while I drive anyway ... :oops:

True ballerz wear the driving sock?

LOL, I'm not sure! I like hangin out, yaknowatimean?

Did you happen to be on the Lions coaching staff a couple years ago?

Yeah, they had "coach tryouts" at the mall. Came down to me and one other dude, they flipped a coin and it came up heads. Ask Paco bout that. :lol:

[Zool]

Why would that matter? It's not like I wear pants while I drive anyway ... :oops:

True ballerz wear the driving sock?

LOL, I'm not sure! I like hangin out, yaknowatimean?

Did you happen to be on the Lions coaching staff a couple years ago?

Yeah, they had "coach tryouts" at the mall. Came down to me and one other dude, they flipped a coin and it came up heads. Ask Paco bout that. :lol:

Have you been back to Wendy's since "the incident"?