OTA Notes

[KYPack]

I skimmed the GBPG blog for new tidbits. It's pretty good info. I skimmed some it for this post.

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McCarthy also touched on a bunch of other topics on Sunday, nose tackle B.J. Raji (who could end up playing a lot of end) and defensive tackle Justin Harrell (who "is looking better and better each week").

Among the tryout players, S Pig Brown is one guy who jumped out. He was listed at 5-11 and 205 as a senior at Missouri -- sort of a Bob Sanders body type, and he looks quick on his feet. He was second-team all-Big 12 in 2007, before an Achilles' injury ended his season, and he wasn't at full speed when the Kansas City Chiefs worked him out a year ago. He might have a better shot this time around.

From a competition perspective, the most interesting moment at Friday's rookie orientation camp practice was in the opening minutes, when T.J. Lang lined up at right tackle and Jamon Meredith at left tackle. Lang also worked at left guard and figures to be considered as an interior lineman, too, although Daryn Colledge is locked in at left guard and the Packers think they have a starting right guard in Josh Sitton.

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The Harrell stuff would be great if legit. We REALLY need Harrell, Jolly, and Raji to come up big for us this season. A strong DLine rotation has to happen for the 3-4 to work.

We must sign Pig Brown. That name resonates.

They love Sitton, eh? I thought I heard he was gonna get a shot at RT. I'd settle for him taking over the RG slot.

[pbmax]

Sitton is the one guy they haven't moved around and he is probably the example someone used in the org to point out that versatility on the OLine might be coming at the expense of reps and game day readiness. I hope he can start, as it seems clear he has the ability to upgrade the talent and size of our O Line.

I still think Harrell has a chance, but I won't believe he is ready until we see him practice. At this point I think the org is tired of taking hits and may be trying to protect itself and him with complimentary reports. Didn't we find out last week he is NOT in the offseason program?

Cliffy can probably go one more year and we have Colledge in an emergency, so Meredith has some time. I am close to certain that Colledge would be a poorer LT than LG, but he can buy us time. But RT is the big question mark. Hopefully someone comes along ready to go.

[pbmax]

We've let a lot of good names go recently. We still have Atari, but how can you beat being a DB named Scorpio Babers?

[bobblehead]

I know a lot of "packer fans" would hate to see JH turn it around and play well. That would be disastorous pie in the face kinda stuff.

As for the rest....its TC, nothing they say matters much.

[mraynrand]

We've let a lot of good names go recently. We still have Atari, but how can you beat being a DB named Scorpio Babers?

I miss Jerry Babb.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Coach Mac has stated that Sitton is a candidate to start at RG (the leading candidate), but they won't be trying him at RT.

I'm really hoping that our starting OL is Clifton, Colledge, Spitz, Sitton, and Barbre this year. I'd like to see Barbre reach his potential and win that spot.

[falco]

Coach Mac has stated that Sitton is a candidate to start at RG (the leading candidate), but they won't be trying him at RT.

I'm really hoping that our starting OL is Clifton, Colledge, Spitz, Sitton, and Barbre this year. I'd like to see Barbre reach his potential and win that spot.

I will be happy with Clifton/Colledge/Spitz/Sitton/whoever rises to the top of the rest.

I would absolutely love to see Clifton's replacement emerge this year, whether it is one of the rooks, or Colledge jumping to the outside since a rook stepped up in his place.

[Pacopete4]

Coach Mac has stated that Sitton is a candidate to start at RG (the leading candidate), but they won't be trying him at RT.

I'm really hoping that our starting OL is Clifton, Colledge, Spitz, Sitton, and Barbre this year. I'd like to see Barbre reach his potential and win that spot.

and then groom Lang/Meredith from this years draft into our LT of the future? At some point thats got to happen, even as quick as this season if Clifton gets hurt.

[TheCheese]

Am I wrong when I say I thought Colledge did a pretty damn good job at LT last year for us? I mean hes way more athletic than Cliffton and he would definitely be an upgrade in the run game despite probably only a modest downgrade in the pass blocking till he learns all the tricks and savy that Cliffton knows. Plus it would be more consistent because Colledge would be able to do every practice. We need our fricking O line to gel for once.

What I would really like to see is Colledge to slide out to LT, Lang to be our LG, Spitz at C, Sitton at RG, and either Barbre or Meredith at RT.

[HarveyWallbangers]

What I would really like to see is Colledge to slide out to LT, Lang to be our LG, Spitz at C, Sutton at RG, and either Barbre or Meredith at RT.

I'm with you--unless you really mean Sutton at RG (instead of Sitton).
:D

[swede]

Am I wrong when I say I thought Colledge did a pretty damn good job at LT last year for us? I mean hes way more athletic than Cliffton and he would definitely be an upgrade in the run game despite probably only a modest downgrade in the pass blocking till he learns all the tricks and savy that Cliffton knows. Plus it would be more consistent because Colledge would be able to do every practice. We need our fricking O line to gel for once.

What I would really like to see is Colledge to slide out to LT, Lang to be our LG, Spitz at C, Sitton at RG, and either Barbre or Meredith at RT.

Fixed. :)

I think I'd like to see that sort of thing also, but, as far as I am concerned, Clifton is welcome to play as long as his knees allow.

I know that Colledge has done pretty well for us at guard, but I thought his build was already kind of tight-endish for a tackle, much less a guard. Does he have some sort of permanent limitation, other than Clifton, that keeps him from being a left tackle? Does anyone think it's a slam dunk that he'll get the next shot at LT once Chad Clifton is hurt or retired?

[TheCheese]

Am I wrong when I say I thought Colledge did a pretty damn good job at LT last year for us? I mean hes way more athletic than Cliffton and he would definitely be an upgrade in the run game despite probably only a modest downgrade in the pass blocking till he learns all the tricks and savy that Cliffton knows. Plus it would be more consistent because Colledge would be able to do every practice. We need our fricking O line to gel for once.

What I would really like to see is Colledge to slide out to LT, Lang to be our LG, Spitz at C, Sitton at RG, and either Barbre or Meredith at RT.

Fixed. :)

I think I'd like to see that sort of thing also, but, as far as I am concerned, Clifton is welcome to play as long as his knees allow.

I know that Colledge has done pretty well for us at guard, but I thought his build was already kind of tight-endish for a tackle, much less a guard. Does he have some sort of permanent limitation, other than Clifton, that keeps him from being a left tackle? Does anyone think it's a slam dunk that he'll get the next shot at LT once Chad Clifton is hurt or retired?

Yeah I meant Sitton heh. And I don't think so because Colledge has everything you look for in a LT. He has long arms and has great footwork. Don't get me wrong I love Clifton but I'm so sick of this musical chairs bull shit. I want our starting 5 o linemen to be able to take all the reps in practice together just like on game day. The benefits to this far outweigh the risk. Colledge could hold down the fort at LT just fine.

[RashanGary]

Preston might have a better chance of starting than a rookie. If you have to get Cliffy out of there and Colledge is the guy to do it, maybe it could look like this:

Colledge
Spitz
Preston
Sitton
Giacomini/Barbre?

[KYPack]

Am I wrong when I say I thought Colledge did a pretty damn good job at LT last year for us? I mean hes way more athletic than Cliffton and he would definitely be an upgrade in the run game despite probably only a modest downgrade in the pass blocking till he learns all the tricks and savy that Cliffton knows. Plus it would be more consistent because Colledge would be able to do every practice. We need our fricking O line to gel for once.

What I would really like to see is Colledge to slide out to LT, Lang to be our LG, Spitz at C, Sitton at RG, and either Barbre or Meredith at RT.

I don't think Spitz will be the C
No way will a rookie be the LG.
Sitton will be the RG, they like him.
RT? I dunno, right now.

These "notes" made me realize that the OLine is unstable right now, but we got some pretty good guys on board.

[Gunakor]

Preston might have a better chance of starting than a rookie. If you have to get Cliffy out of there and Colledge is the guy to do it, maybe it could look like this:

Colledge
Spitz
Preston
Sitton
Giacomini/Barbre?

I think, looking at the whole season, TJ Lang will eventually emerge as a solid LG for us. So it would be Colledge/Lang/Spitz/Sitton/Gia or Barbre or Preston or...

RT still baffles me. I have no earthly idea what they are gonna do there.

[cheesner]

Sitton is the one guy they haven't moved around and he is probably the example someone used in the org to point out that versatility on the OLine might be coming at the expense of reps and game day readiness. I hope he can start, as it seems clear he has the ability to upgrade the talent and size of our O Line.

I still think Harrell has a chance, but I won't believe he is ready until we see him practice. At this point I think the org is tired of taking hits and may be trying to protect itself and him with complimentary reports. Didn't we find out last week he is NOT in the offseason program?

Cliffy can probably go one more year and we have Colledge in an emergency, so Meredith has some time. I am close to certain that Colledge would be a poorer LT than LG, but he can buy us time. But RT is the big question mark. Hopefully someone comes along ready to go.
The quote on Harrell said that the injured players were all being limited in what they are doing. It did not single out Harrell and say how limited he was. From the other quotes that Harrell was doing a lot of smiling and feeling great - I would bet he is not very limited. I am very optimistic about his recovery. If it was a reoccuring knee issue, I would be more concerned, but it was a bicep tear in college and then the back issue as a Packer. The 2nd problem was an error in the operation. So it is not like it is a continuous chronic issue. If he puts things together our defensive line will tremendous and our defense will be dominating.

I disagree with you on Colledge. I think he will be a better T than an G. He is very athletic and will be a big boost to our run game over Clifton. I like the strong mauler types for G, like Sitton or Lang. Personally, I think we need to put Colledge in at LT now, Clifton (unless he returns to form) was our worst OL last season.

[cheesner]

These "notes" made me realize that the OLine is unstable right now, but we got some pretty good guys on board.Isn't this a nice change? A few years ago the question was 'Who are we going to start on the OL?' because there were lots of questions and no good options at both guard positions and center.

The question hasn't changed, we are still asking 'Who are we going to start on the OL?" But now the reason we are asking is because there are a bunch of good options.

[Waldo]

I know a lot of "packer fans" would hate to see JH turn it around and play well. That would be disastorous pie in the face kinda stuff.

As for the rest....its TC, nothing they say matters much.

The common crow would immediately be placed on the endangered species list after being hunted to near extinction by hordes of Packer fans looking for something to eat.

[RashanGary]

I understand the optimism over Lang, but he is a rookie. The line is a tough spot to play as a rookie. I think our vets are going to have a huge leg up over the rooks.

I'm really hoping Barbre steps up. If not Barbre, I'd be happy with Giacomini turning out too. Barbre going into his third year though, this should be his time if he's going to cut it. He's a hell of an athlete. Hopefully he gets it and becomes a mauler in there for us.

[Administrator]

I know a lot of "packer fans" would hate to see JH turn it around and play well. That would be disastorous pie in the face kinda stuff.

As for the rest....its TC, nothing they say matters much.

The common crow would immediately be placed on the endangered species list after being hunted to near extinction by hordes of Packer fans looking for something to eat.

Very witty and sadly, probably accurate. :D

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I find this trend to be disturbing...pig, jamon...attempts to get porkchop womack in the past.

Clearly the GB brass isn't concerned about jews or muslim fans.

[rbaloha1]

I understand the optimism over Lang, but he is a rookie. The line is a tough spot to play as a rookie. I think our vets are going to have a huge leg up over the rooks.


The Packers have a history of rookie linemen starting -- Adam Timmerman, Aaron Taylor, Mark Tauscher, Chad Cliffton, Jason Spitz, Daryn Colledge, Tony Moll and Josh Sitton (scheduled starter).

If Lang is legit he starts at rt.

[rbaloha1]

I disagree with you on Colledge. I think he will be a better T than an G. He is very athletic and will be a big boost to our run game over Clifton. I like the strong mauler types for G, like Sitton or Lang. Personally, I think we need to put Colledge in at LT now, Clifton (unless he returns to form) was our worst OL last season.

Agreed. This has been beaten to death already. Colledge was an outstanding left tackle at Boise State. Excellent footwork and strong hands compensate for the lack of NFL left tackle size.

Everytime Colledge moves to left tackle one can see the comfort level. If Clifton succumbs to injuries Jamon should be given the first shot with a short leash. In the event Jamon fails then permanently move Colledge.

[Fritz]

I find this trend to be disturbing...pig, jamon...attempts to get porkchop womack in the past.

Clearly the GB brass isn't concerned about jews or muslim fans.

And if they indeed sign "Gluten" Jones out of the University of Southwestern Rhode Island, they will lose all their allergic fans as well.

I personally am rooting for Barbre, but only if he moves to a city named Seville

[Cleft Crusty]

I find this trend to be disturbing...pig, jamon...attempts to get porkchop womack in the past.

Clearly the GB brass isn't concerned about jews or muslim fans.

How soon Packer fans forget about Buckets Goldenberg. I can see him playing in my mind's eye like it's yesterday.

[KYPack]

I find this trend to be disturbing...pig, jamon...attempts to get porkchop womack in the past.

Clearly the GB brass isn't concerned about jews or muslim fans.

How soon Packer fans forget about Buckets Goldenberg. I can see him playing in my mind's eye like it's yesterday.

We've had a Jew since 'Ol Buckets, haven't we?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I find this trend to be disturbing...pig, jamon...attempts to get porkchop womack in the past.

Clearly the GB brass isn't concerned about jews or muslim fans.

And if they indeed sign "Gluten" Jones out of the University of Southwestern Rhode Island, they will lose all their allergic fans as well.

I personally am rooting for Barbre, but only if he moves to a city named Seville

I thought he was going to tutor me for the LSAT.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I find this trend to be disturbing...pig, jamon...attempts to get porkchop womack in the past.

Clearly the GB brass isn't concerned about jews or muslim fans.

How soon Packer fans forget about Buckets Goldenberg. I can see him playing in my mind's eye like it's yesterday.

We try to forget...he brought shame upon his family.

http://i2.fc-img.com/CTV02/Comcast_CIM_Prod_Fancast_Image/8/74/1193426529919_6679_0001.jpg_147_106.jpg

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I find this trend to be disturbing...pig, jamon...attempts to get porkchop womack in the past.

Clearly the GB brass isn't concerned about jews or muslim fans.

How soon Packer fans forget about Buckets Goldenberg. I can see him playing in my mind's eye like it's yesterday.

We've had a Jew since 'Ol Buckets, haven't we?

Yes. The pack traditionally mine the jews for line talent. :roll:

Alan Veingrad.

Ty suspects TT hates Jews...the real reason Olshansky wasn't signed.

[pbmax]

I disagree with you on Colledge. I think he will be a better T than an G. He is very athletic and will be a big boost to our run game over Clifton. I like the strong mauler types for G, like Sitton or Lang. Personally, I think we need to put Colledge in at LT now, Clifton (unless he returns to form) was our worst OL last season.

Agreed. This has been beaten to death already. Colledge was an outstanding left tackle at Boise State. Excellent footwork and strong hands compensate for the lack of NFL left tackle size.

Everytime Colledge moves to left tackle one can see the comfort level. If Clifton succumbs to injuries Jamon should be given the first shot with a short leash. In the event Jamon fails then permanently move Colledge.
Colledge's arms are short for an elite LT and he can be had in pass protection. That resume gets your starting slot put on the NEEDS list of every team. I don't think he will be a starter long in the NFL at Left Tackle. He could fill in on an emergency basis, and he might actually be the gameday backup this year, but he is not a long term solution at LT.

[Waldo]

Quick feet can make up for the lack of elite arm length, DC has well above average feet, even for a LT.

I think though if Lang really shows something at G, they move him to RT. DC can be an elite RT, his ability to play in space far exceeds the average RT.

[Fritz]

Whatever switching they're gonna do this year, I hope to gosh they do it in the first two weeks. I'm so tired of this slipping guys around. Sure, they become versatile - they can suck at a multitude of positions!

I would like to see them set guys' positions and have only a couple of guys who can swing both ways(!). Then if a guy goes down (this is getting creepy suddenly), just plug in the next guy on the depth chart. You keep shuffling guys so you have your "best five" out there, pretty soon three of 'em are out of their regular position, and it all goes to hell.

[Waldo]

Whatever switching they're gonna do this year, I hope to gosh they do it in the first two weeks. I'm so tired of this slipping guys around. Sure, they become versatile - they can suck at a multitude of positions!

I would like to see them set guys' positions and have only a couple of guys who can swing both ways(!). Then if a guy goes down (this is getting creepy suddenly), just plug in the next guy on the depth chart. You keep shuffling guys so you have your "best five" out there, pretty soon three of 'em are out of their regular position, and it all goes to hell.

Though some would like to believe so, all this "no more musical chairs" is just a bunch of hooey and lip service. It isn't really going to make anything better, but the fact that the backups we put in are going to be less good than previously.

The 3 guys last year that played more than 1 position were Colledge, Spitz, and Moll. Spitz was the only other guy that could snap, it is retarded to play anybody but your 2nd best pass blocker at backup LT (also retarded if he isn't a regular starter at another position), and Moll was the right side backup, which we are still going to need because we aren't going into the season with 10 lineman, and will likely only suit up 7 for games. So, Spitz isn't moving? That's the extent of the change. MM has sold you guys a big pile of dung. Clifton, Barbre, Wells, Sitton, Tausher, Breno played only 1 position last year.

[Fritz]

So, what was the pile of dung we were sold? That guys aren't going to be moving around? Or that not moving guys around will make the o-line better?

[Waldo]

So, what was the pile of dung we were sold? That guys aren't going to be moving around? Or that not moving guys around will make the o-line better?

Both.

And the fact that we did it at an unusual rate.

It is rare to find a team whose backup LT is a bench player. Because of the potential for injury to the QB, the backup LT is typically the 2nd best lineman at pass blocking. It is dumb to put that guy on the bench as a backup, he should start (same concept as WR, your backup flanker is typically the split end or slot receiver, not the #4 WR). Almost every team in the league slides their LG or RT over when the LT goes down. Nothing is changing with Colledge unless Meredith proves to be a better LT. Colledge has played a lot of football in the last 3 years, and I believe there have been 3 games in that span where he didn't start at LG. Two at LT and one at RT, his game at RT was a side effect of two of our RT's being injured and the right side backup being benched.

We were caught in a bind with Spitz, we only had 2 active offensive lineman that were any good at snapping, Wells and Spitz (Carvalho was a PS guy). Any time Wells was hurt Spitz had to slide over. We had no general interior bench player, and it is idiotic to have a CO backup suit up. Now we did go a little above and beyond normal movement a time or two, when Colledge was playing LT a couple of times MM moved Spitz to LG and played Sitton at RG. He could just as easily have played Barbre at LG, but MM had a love affair with Sitton, Sitton was not our 6th best lineman last year, he was better than that, and MM did what he could to get him on the field without being a starter.

Almost all backup lineman have to play more than one position. It is the realities of a gameday roster, where 7 lineman typically suit up. If your backups don't play multiple positions, your starters have to. Moll played right side backup, Barbre left side backup (but 3rd on the depth chart at LT).

The only player that moved an unusual amount was Spitz. If we concentrate Moll at one position, either he starts or is gone. 4th year guys aren't healthy scratches, that is for noobs, and guys that play one position only aren't suited to be on the gameday roster unless they start. As long at Colledge is our second best pass blocker, he will be backup LT.

So this is what it is, we are going to stop moving Sptiz around. That is the musical chairs. It is not some tragic thing destroying our line. It affects one player. The difference you see from him moving less will be negligible, if the line gets better, it won't be because Spitz stopped moving around, it is because he is a better C than Wells, and because Sitton is a better G than Spitz.

MM made one comment and it has been beat to death in the papers on on MB's, it has been dubbed "the problem", and MM has seen the light and has "the answer". That train of thought is a load of crap. It might make Spitz a better player to concentrate on center alone, but to think that no lineman will move around in case of injury is false (Colledge will still slide to LT), now we have the backups to suit up to cover all positions with the gameday roster. Lang can play all 5 positions, Barbre can play 4 positions, Moll can play 3 positions, Preston can play 4 positions, Meredith can play 4 positions. Our only pigeonholed backups are Wells (CO), Carvalho (CO), and Giacomini (RTO).

[pbmax]

If you are talking about Game Day backups or actual Game Snaps, then Waldo, your list is correct.

But Barbre spent practice time at Tackle, Colledge spent time not only at LT but also RG. Spitz flopped between both Guard slots as well as Center. Giacomini had two positions but I only remember his time at RT. Moll was RT and RG. Sitton was the only one who was in one place for practice and preseason beside Clifton, Tauscher and Wells.

[HarveyWallbangers]

It is rare to find a team whose backup LT is a bench player. Because of the potential for injury to the QB, the backup LT is typically the 2nd best lineman at pass blocking. It is dumb to put that guy on the bench as a backup

Unless you have a bunch of OL who are all at a similar level. In that case, it might be best not to move guys around. I have no doubt they'd move Colledge to LT if Clifton got injured. However, I could see them not moving Spitz and some of the other guys around as much.

[Fritz]

Aha. I see.

[Waldo]

It is rare to find a team whose backup LT is a bench player. Because of the potential for injury to the QB, the backup LT is typically the 2nd best lineman at pass blocking. It is dumb to put that guy on the bench as a backup

Unless you have a bunch of OL who are all at a similar level. In that case, it might be best not to move guys around. I have no doubt they'd move Colledge to LT if Clifton got injured. However, I could see them not moving Spitz and some of the other guys around as much.

What other guys? Backup players have to be versatile. The only point in concentrating a guy one position is if he is a starter or soon to be a starter.

It is one of the realities of the gameday roster, there are not enough spots to suit up specialized backups (or even on the 53 man roster, there is not enough room for a full set of specialized backups). 5 positions have to be backed up by 2 guys on gameday. It makes sense to regularly practice them in all the spots they back up. You are better off moving your backup lineman around often to keep them fresh at all of their positions. It might hinder their progress toward starting, but for backup players, just getting snaps often is more important than getting snaps at one position.

[Fritz]

I was under the impression that the Packers kept eight linemen active on game day. Last year, I thought, it was Clifton, Colledge, Wells, Spitz, Tauscher, Moll, Barbre, and Sitton (until he was hurt).

No?

Seven just seems like one too few. Three guys go down, you're screwed. I wonder how often that's happened, by the way?

[retailguy]

I was under the impression that the Packers kept eight linemen active on game day. Last year, I thought, it was Clifton, Colledge, Wells, Spitz, Tauscher, Moll, Barbre, and Sitton (until he was hurt).

No?

Seven just seems like one too few. Three guys go down, you're screwed. I wonder how often that's happened, by the way?

Wouldn't you use one of the TE's in this situation?

[Fritz]

I was under the impression that the Packers kept eight linemen active on game day. Last year, I thought, it was Clifton, Colledge, Wells, Spitz, Tauscher, Moll, Barbre, and Sitton (until he was hurt).

No?

Seven just seems like one too few. Three guys go down, you're screwed. I wonder how often that's happened, by the way?

Wouldn't you use one of the TE's in this situation?

That would be my impression - but it wouldn't be Jermichael Finley!

[Zool]

I was under the impression that the Packers kept eight linemen active on game day. Last year, I thought, it was Clifton, Colledge, Wells, Spitz, Tauscher, Moll, Barbre, and Sitton (until he was hurt).

No?

Seven just seems like one too few. Three guys go down, you're screwed. I wonder how often that's happened, by the way?

Wouldn't you use one of the TE's in this situation?

That would be my impression - but it wouldn't be Jermichael Finley!

I assume any DE would just pick Finley up and move him out of the way.

[Fritz]

Or he might simply ask politely, and Jermichael might step aside.

[SnakeLH2006]

Coach Mac has stated that Sitton is a candidate to start at RG (the leading candidate), but they won't be trying him at RT.

I'm really hoping that our starting OL is Clifton, Colledge, Spitz, Sitton, and Barbre this year. I'd like to see Barbre reach his potential and win that spot.

God....Just resign Tauchy for one year. Too much drama at RT.