Spooky Photons

[swede]

There was a cool article in the WSJ today regarding current research into the smallest particles we can observe.

Scientists have been able to use a laser to "entangle" two photons. After physical separation the photons have opposing orientations that remain linked over even great distances. Change the polarity of one and the other, though it be miles away, will in the same instant change its polarity. Increase the energy level of one and the other will reduce its energy level to maintain a sympathetic balance.

The spooky implication of course is that there exists a hidden force which binds the universe, a force which, for lack of a better term, is more spiritual than physical in its nature.

(Edit) As I ponder this, I wonder if the the force has both a good side and a dark side. If there is a dark side it would explain the existence of Illinois.

[Zool]

Midichlorians?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Increase the energy level of one and the other will reduce its energy level to maintain a sympathetic balance.

How/where are they doing this? At a detector far away or at the source?
Why don't you post the article, perhaps I can disabuse you of those God notions before it's too late.

[swede]

see below.

[swede]

Your Spooky Photons article, HH.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124147752556985009.html


Suddenly the alternate universe episode of Star Trek is looking a little less silly, even if William Shatner isn't.


By GAUTAM NAIK

One of quantum physics' crazier notions is that two particles seem to communicate with each other instantly, even when they're billions of miles apart. Albert Einstein, arguing that nothing travels faster than light, dismissed this as impossible "spooky action at a distance."

The great man may have been wrong. A series of recent mind-bending laboratory experiments has given scientists an unprecedented peek behind the quantum veil, confirming that this realm is as mysterious as imagined.

Some key developments around one of quantum physics' weirdest notions: that two particles can affect each other even when they are billions of miles apart.

Quantum physics is the study of the very small -- atoms, photons and other particles. Unlike the cause-and-effect of our everyday physical world, subatomic particles defy common sense and behave in wacky ways. That includes the fact that a photon, which is a particle of light, exists in a haze of multiple behaviors. They spin in many ways, such as "up" or "down," at the same time. Even trickier, it's only when you take a peek -- by measuring it -- that the photon fixes into a particular state of spin.

Stranger still is entanglement. When two photons get "entangled" they behave like a joint entity. Even when they're miles apart, if the spin of one particle is changed, the spin of the other instantly changes, too. This direct influence of one object on another distant one is called non-locality.

These peculiar properties have already been proven in a lab and tapped to improve data encryption. They could also one day be used to build much faster computers. Some philosophers see quantum phenomena as a sign of far greater unknown forces at work and it bolsters their view that a spiritual dimension exists.

"We don't know how nature manages to produce spooky behavior," says Nicolas Gisin, a scientist at Geneva University, who led a recent experiment demonstrating action-at-a-distance. "But it's a fascinating time for physics because it can be mastered and exploited."

Einstein refused to believe that a photon could be in all states at once and set out to find an explanation for their seemingly odd behavior. God doesn't play dice with the universe, he said at the time. Danish physicist Neils Bohr, a big proponent of quantum uncertainty, shot back: "Quit telling God what to do."

Trying to poke holes in the notion of spooky action at a distance, Einstein and two colleagues published a paper in 1935 that appeared to demonstrate the existence of mysterious "hidden variables" and show that quantum theory was incomplete. In a seminal 1964 paper, Irish physicist John Bell raised questions about the mathematical validity of Einstein's work.
[quantum physics]
[quantum physics]

In a 1981 paper, Mr. Bell took a swing at Einstein's notion of "hidden variables" by relating the sock-wearing patterns of his physicist colleague Reinhold Bertlmann. Mr. Bell noted that if he saw one of Mr. Bertlmann's feet coming around the corner and it had a pink sock, he would instantly know, without seeing the other foot, that the second sock wouldn't be pink. To the casual observer that may seem magical, or controlled by "hidden variables," but it was no mystery to Mr. Bell because he knew that Mr. Bertlmann liked to wear mismatched socks.

Quantum particles behave a lot more oddly, and, thanks to Mr. Bell's work, experiment after experiment has shown that to be true.

Last year, Dr. Gisin and colleagues at Geneva University described how they had entangled a pair of photons in their lab. They then fired them, along fiber-optic cables of exactly equal length, to two Swiss villages some 11 miles apart.

During the journey, when one photon switched to a slightly higher energy level, its twin instantly switched to a slightly lower one. But the sum of the energies stayed constant, proving that the photons remained entangled.

More important, the team couldn't detect any time difference in the changes. "If there was any communication, it would have to have been at least 10,000 times the speed of light," says Dr. Gisin. "Because this is such an unlikely speed, the conclusion is there couldn't have been communication and so there is non-locality."

Other scientists have gotten a more direct look at the particles' secret behavior. They pulled off this feat by resolving something called Hardy's paradox, which basically addressed one of the trickiest aspects of quantum physics: by observing a particle you might affect its property.

In 1990, the English physicist Lucien Hardy devised a thought experiment. The common view was that when a particle met its antiparticle, the pair destroyed each other in an explosion. But Mr. Hardy noted that in some cases when the particles' interaction wasn't observed, they wouldn't annihilate each other. The paradox: Because the interaction had to remain unseen, it couldn't be confirmed.

In a striking achievement, scientists from Osaka University have resolved the paradox. They used extremely weak measurements -- the equivalent of a sidelong glance, as it were -- that didn't disturb the photons' state. By doing the experiment multiple times and pooling those weak measurements, they got enough good data to show that the particles didn't annihilate. The conclusion: When the particles weren't observed, they behaved differently.

In a paper published in the New Journal of Physics in March, the Japanese team acknowledged that their result was "preposterous." Yet, they noted, it "gives us new insights into the spooky nature of quantum mechanics." A team from the University of Toronto published similar results in January.

Some researchers are using the uncertain state of photons to solve real-world problems... keep reading article through link above.

Write to Gautam Naik at gautam.naik@wsj.com
Printed in The Wall Street Journal, page A12

[Harlan Huckleby]

the article didn't explain how the photons were intermingled.
I don't know enough to be impressed, but apparently real physicists are puzzled.

I am not dazzled because I was predazzled: the particle-wave duality has already blown my mind, and this experiment strikes me as a possible extension of that old mystery. They keep talking about a "photon" as if it is just a particle, and of course when you isolate its position in a fiber optic cable it behaves more and more like a particle. But just between you, me and the fence post, we also know that it also has an associated wave function, and its "position" is a probability function extending across all space.

Your body could be treated not as a giant collection of particles, but as a superposition of wave functions. So there is some tiny, tiny probability that you could walk through a wall. Doesn't happen, but it could, theoretically. And the phenomena is actually observed in nature, like in diodes where the electron gets on the other side of a "wall" (potential energy barrier) where it shouldn't be able to cross if it were really just a particle.

Maybe those "seperated" photons are still overlapping in some sense by virtue of the fact that they are waves too, which have become linked.

[swede]

If you could mine those "waves" you'd have a kind of ether ore.

I see your point about being pre-dazzled with the particle/wave aspects of photons. Once you've gone around the bend in quantum physics there's only more crazy stuff on the other side.

I like learning about this stuff but I've been programmed to not try to explain it to other people. I have a friend who is a robotic engineer and a bit like our good friend Skin when it comes to humor. Every time I begin to explain some mechanical/scientific process to him he acts as if he's being stimulated. "OOOh, swede, but what happens when the pistons compress the fuel? Hmmmm?"

[SkinBasket]

I like when Harlan talks all educated like. It makes me feel warm.

[mraynrand]

Key observations: Quantum particles are like unmatched socks. Unmatched and unwashed socks.

Quantum particles are very shy. They will not perform their mingling if someone is watching.

If you have hidden variables, any result is possible.

One final note - If two particles are linked, and then show properties that suggest they remain linked even when separated so that communication at faster than the speed of light is required, use Occam's razor. They probably knew each other so well that they know what the other will do before they split up - kind of like a Husband and wife who go into different stores at the shopping center. The wife doesn't buy an expensive bag at the clothing store while the man buys the power drill at Home Depot because the wife knows "that fucker is going to buy the drill." (or vise versa). See? faster than light communication!

[swede]

Skin, that is Bizarre. Your post came up immediately after mine.

Do you see how this research in quantum physics opens up possibilities in paranormal psychology? I merely invoke your name as a common reference and there you are proving my point. The merest swish of a tendril of thought disturbs the ether that connects all sub-atomic particles.

[swede]

Ayn, I'll bet you could kick those quantum physicists in the ass if they showed up at the wrong party talking their "non-locality" shit.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ty once worked with a Gautam Naik. Not this one, but still. Obviously God wants me to study more physics.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I've learned not to be too skeptical about this stuff. Over my long lifetime I've seen so much science fiction turned into fact that it's mindboggling.

By the way, there's a street in Santa Rosa Beach, FL called: "Spooky Lane." Maybe I'll take a stroll down there and get to the bottom of this mystery.

Don't hold your breath.

[Scott Campbell]

I've learned not to be too skeptical about this stuff. Over my long lifetime I've seen so much science fiction turned into fact that it's mindboggling.


Lucky. I wish I had been there when they invented fire. :P

[swede]

If photons are the particles from which light is made, are photons released in the chemical reaction that is fire, or are they summoned out of the ether?

[Maxie the Taxi]

I've learned not to be too skeptical about this stuff. Over my long lifetime I've seen so much science fiction turned into fact that it's mindboggling.


Lucky. I wish I had been there when they invented fire. :P

Oooo. That one stung a little! :lol:

[Maxie the Taxi]

If photons are the particles from which light is made, are photons released in the chemical reaction that is fire, or are they summoned out of the ether?

That's a good question. However, I'm still trying to figure out how they track one particular proton after it's been split in half and spread apart by a billion miles...especially when you can't see it when it's right in front of your eye...and then it changes if you look at it.

I'll concentrate on fire...it's a whole lot simpler.

[KYPack]

Better head back to porno, boys.

This stuff may just be over our heads.

[Harlan Huckleby]

If photons are the particles from which light is made, are photons released in the chemical reaction that is fire, or are they summoned out of the ether?

I think it was the greeks that thought that all matter consisted of three elements - earth, wind and fire. It seems kind of silly now to think the whole universe could be encapsulated in a 70's funk band.

I had forgotton about photons. They are the tiniest quantity of light (or xray, radio, microwave .... ) possible. When an electron changes energy state in a heated tungsten atom of your light bulb, it emits exactly one photon of light. Photons are just as much waves as they are particles.

I don't think this experiment is so uniquely spooky. IF you hooked your car battery to some cable that extended a million miles into space and back, the impedance of that load would be sensed instantly. The correct amount of current would start flowing right away. So that sensing of impedence is happening faster than the speed of light. I forget the explanation, something like phenonmena can exceed the speed of light, just not light or matter.

That's similar to the mystery of this experiment.

[swede]

Here is more crazy, mind-bending science.

The warp drive is exactly that: it warps the time-space continuum rather than propels in a Newtonian sense.

http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/090506-tw-warp-drive.html