New wrinkles you think we might see in 2009

[RashanGary]

Ruvell Martin is a great blocking receiver. Jordy Nelson is a great blocking receiver.

Up until now, Martin hasn't been a great redzone target but he lacks a little suddenness to his game. The new training program really focuses on explosive football movements. If Martin gets a slight edge in his burst off the line (also, in and out of breaks), he'd be able to use his big body and reliable hands well in the redzone. The problem with him so far is that he can't create separation. I think he might be a guy who benefits greatly from this new speed/explosion training.

Jordy Nelson is a made to order redzone weapon. He catches the ball as good as anyone in traffic. He's got good short area burst to create enough separation. He's got a big body that helps shield off defenders in tight areas. He's also a great blocker.


In the redzone, it would be interesting to see Nelson and Martin as the receivers because they are both great blocking receivers and big body/possession types that could work well in tight areas.




5 OL (Spitz/Sitton/Barbre being the drive blockers on the dominate right side)
Rodgers (can also threaten the edges by rolling out in run/pass options)
Quinn Johnson (bruiser FB)
Ryan Grant (north/south runner)
Donald Lee (solid blocker, good receiver, dual threat)
Martin/Nelson (very good hands, very good blockers)


The dominate tendency out of this set would be runs, right. Spitz is a good, strong center. Sitton a good, strong guard and Barbre (if it pans out) a great run blocking tackle. Lee is a good blocker and which ever side you run to has a good blocking WR. Quinn Johnson is a hammer of a FB and Grant is a good north south runner.

To keep defenses off balance, we could mix in some counter runs to the left or some misdirection runs to the left.

Then we have an extremely mobile QB that we could roll to the right or left in run/pass options. We could isolate a defender on the weak side (by running misdirection roll outs) with the defender having the option to either go after Rodgers or defend the receiver fading to the back of the endzone.


You hate to take Jennings and Driver off the field, but if you're serious about running the ball (and I think the Packers are) I think there is some benefit to having a run heavy package. Obviously pro redzone packages are 10X more complex than one personnel package, so Driver and Jennings would see a lot of snaps but as a wrinkle, against teams that have a hard time stopping the run, I think there could be a benefit to a package like this. Troy Aikman says the best redzone offenses start with running the ball. I think teams would have a hard time stopping the run against this group and I think there are enough weapons still where the pass could still be a great surprise element that, in itself, is tough to stop.

[Fritz]

What the heck. Sure. Though Driver is maybe my favorite red zone guy, and I'm a big James Jones fan. I think he's gonna break out this year, and not in pimples.

[RashanGary]

What the heck. Sure. Though Driver is maybe my favorite red zone guy, and I'm a big James Jones fan. I think he's gonna break out this year, and not in pimples.

Driver is an average blocker and not a very productive redzone target over the years.

Jones is a bad blocker (according to the snipets I've read over the last couple years).

Jennings is a great redzone target but an average at best blocker (and again, this is just one wrinkle, maybe 10% of our redzone plays. Maybe a few snaps every couple weeks when we have a favorable run matchup)



Clearly this is a pro offense and clearly it's a little more involved than one package. Clearly we have other great weapons that we want teams to prepare for. This is just one wrinkle, that uses some of our weapons in a way that focuses on the RUN first. Driver and Jennings are pass first players. They're average blockers and good receivers. This is our run down your throat package (if we have one) while still maintaining the threat to pass.

[Bretsky]

What the heck. Sure. Though Driver is maybe my favorite red zone guy, and I'm a big James Jones fan. I think he's gonna break out this year, and not in pimples.


I'm not sure what to think of James Jones; I was excited about him in his rookie preseason. More I see him, the more I think he's just a guy. He's better than Ruvell though.

[RashanGary]

I'm not saying is the starting point of our redzone offense, just a wrinkle.



Things evolve and coaches learn what they're players do best. If I had to draw up the starting point to our redzone offense (just with what I know now), I'd keep everything like I have it except I'd isolate Jennings as the weakside receiver (to keep the weakside defense honest and slow their flow to the ball). I'd have Nelson as the strong side receiver and run everything else like I discussed above. This takes a little away from the weakside run (because Jennings can't hold a block long enough for a misdirection run to work), but with Jennings over there, the flow to the strong side and to cutback lanes would definitely slow down. There is a give/take. Jenning is our best weapon so you want him on the field, but in some matchups, maybe you'd rather see a good blocker so you can attack their weakside run defense better.

I still think Rodgers is a unique redzone weapon. I'd ask him to be very careful when he runs, but the way a great passing QB like Rodgers can also really pressure defenses with the run is incredibly unique. Of the top statistical passing QB's from a year ago, Rodgers is one of the only top tier scramblers. I don't like the QB to run, except in the redzone where it puts added pressure on defenses and the stakes are higher. You can also beat it into his head to be careful.

[RashanGary]

I'm not sure what to think of James Jones; I was excited about him in his rookie preseason. More I see him, the more I think he's just a guy. He's better than Ruvell though.

I'm high on Jones still. I just don't see him really getting a lot of opportunities Jennings, Driver and Nelson seem better right now. That's not a knock on Jones as much as it is a testament to the quality and depth of our recievers.

Jones is the type of physical dude that can win his one on one matchup. He's going to give safties, linebackers and nickle/dime corners fits all year long.

[GrnBay007]

I'm not sure what to think of James Jones; I was excited about him in his rookie preseason. More I see him, the more I think he's just a guy.

:shock:


Big, big season 2009! :P

[Scott Campbell]

I'm not sure what to think of James Jones; I was excited about him in his rookie preseason. More I see him, the more I think he's just a guy.

:shock:


Big, big season 2009! :P


This wasn't a preseason game. You don't see too many J.A.G.'s torching Champ Baily. That said, I'd like to see Jones put together an entire season. It's year 3 James - get er done.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/08cf14DacxdBZ/610x.jpg

[GrnBay007]

Dang!! Who threw that ball??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

:P

[Waldo]

Dang!! Who threw that ball??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

:P

That throw sucked. Missed short by a good 5-7 yards. Jones had to make a big adjustment to catch it. The S didn't see the ball and aimed for where it would land on the sideline if it were a good throw. Woulda clobbered Jones right after he caught it; the adjustment to the underthrown ball caused the S to overshoot and is what led to the TD.

[Fritz]

So it turned out to be a good throw, then?

[Scott Campbell]

Dang!! Who threw that ball??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

:P

That throw sucked. Missed short by a good 5-7 yards. Jones had to make a big adjustment to catch it. The S didn't see the ball and aimed for where it would land on the sideline if it were a good throw. Woulda clobbered Jones right after he caught it; the adjustment to the underthrown ball caused the S to overshoot and is what led to the TD.


He made up for it in OT with the Jennings throw. Pure perfection.

[Scott Campbell]

Dang!! Who threw that ball??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

:P

That throw sucked. Missed short by a good 5-7 yards. Jones had to make a big adjustment to catch it. The S didn't see the ball and aimed for where it would land on the sideline if it were a good throw. Woulda clobbered Jones right after he caught it; the adjustment to the underthrown ball caused the S to overshoot and is what led to the TD.


I thought that was the great thing about Walker's big season here. He bailed Brett out of a lot of bad throws. He was like Dennis Rodman - unfortunately in more ways than one.

[Waldo]

So it turned out to be a good throw, then?

Lucky, Jones caught sight of it before Champ did and didn't take a misstep like Champ did. If Champ woulda noted the trajectory earlier he probably would have intercepted it.

[Scott Campbell]

So it turned out to be a good throw, then?

Lucky, Jones caught sight of it before Champ did and didn't take a misstep like Champ did. If Champ woulda noted the trajectory earlier he probably would have intercepted it.


I'm working from memory here, but that would have really made Champ lucky on that play - because Jones had separation.

[Waldo]

So it turned out to be a good throw, then?

Lucky, Jones caught sight of it before Champ did and didn't take a misstep like Champ did. If Champ woulda noted the trajectory earlier he probably would have intercepted it.


I'm working from memory here, but that would have really made Champ lucky on that play - because Jones had separation.

True, but Jones had to slow down and bend inside, in an effort to catch up Champ took one step to many on the sideline trajectory, if he would have angled inside earlier he would have been a step ahead of where he was.

[rbaloha1]

Ruvell Martin is a great blocking receiver.

RM will not make the team. Jermichael Finley will develop as a red zone target.

[rbaloha1]

What the heck. Sure. Though Driver is maybe my favorite red zone guy, and I'm a big James Jones fan. I think he's gonna break out this year, and not in pimples.
I'm not sure what to think of James Jones; I was excited about him in his rookie preseason. More I see him, the more I think he's just a guy. He's better than Ruvell though.

Agreed. Jones is inconsistent although injuries could be a contributing factor. Needs to shut his mouth and just go out and play.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Agreed. Jones is inconsistent although injuries could be a contributing factor. Needs to shut his mouth and just go out and play.

Since when has Jones had a big mouth? Other than his initial reaction when the Packers drafted Jordy Nelson--which was understandable.

[rbaloha1]

Agreed. Jones is inconsistent although injuries could be a contributing factor. Needs to shut his mouth and just go out and play.

Since when has Jones had a big mouth? Other than his initial reaction when the Packers drafted Jordy Nelson--which was understandable.

The dude always make excuses from the debacle with the Bears during rookie season. Hopefully JJ emerges this season.

[SnakeLH2006]

I'm not sure what to think of James Jones; I was excited about him in his rookie preseason. More I see him, the more I think he's just a guy.

:shock:


Big, big season 2009! :P

Gotta agree here too. JJ seems to just tear it up for a "slow" guy by being able to escape the jam very well, and create separation. Snake's kinda disappointed he's been hurt with knick-knack injuries, but he really, has some talent...Always been a Sterling Sharpe fan and he really looks the part when healthy. Jordy might be good, but really, JJ really looks the gamer in big plays when we need them.

I see a huge upside to JJ, if he can stay on the field, and in the top 3 wideouts. Nothing against Jordy, but JJ has looked much more the beast on the field for GB thus far. I sure hope he has a role where he can get 50 plus catches this year, but looks like Jordy has phased out JJ's role somewhat. Seems political almost, but I don't see what Jordy does better than JJ right now. Blocking? Jordy is ok, but I've seen JJ puts some good licks on DB's on rushing downs at times. But all things considered, I hope to see more big plays from JJ, as DD is prob. winding down at some point.

[Chevelle2]

Ruvell Martin is a great blocking receiver.

RM will not make the team. Jermichael Finley will develop as a red zone target.

I think we underestimate how much RM-AR's relationship factors into roster making decisions.

I think that will help RM stay around.

[Waldo]

Agreed. Jones is inconsistent although injuries could be a contributing factor. Needs to shut his mouth and just go out and play.

Since when has Jones had a big mouth? Other than his initial reaction when the Packers drafted Jordy Nelson--which was understandable.

The dude always make excuses from the debacle with the Bears during rookie season. Hopefully JJ emerges this season.

Yeah, I'm looking for DD to be the #4 WR this year, with JJ and Jordy pulling ahead. :D

[Partial]

I think we underestimate how much RM-AR's relationship factors into roster making decisions.

I think that will help RM stay around.

I tend to agree. No way does Martin get cut because he is A) doing PR work for the Packers as one of their ambassadors (along with Arod and Jennings) and B) supposedly one of Rodgers closest friends on the team.

[Scott Campbell]

RM is a good #5, but he's still a #5. If he gets beat out in camp, he's gone. IMO.

[Fritz]

Agreed. Jones is inconsistent although injuries could be a contributing factor. Needs to shut his mouth and just go out and play.

Since when has Jones had a big mouth? Other than his initial reaction when the Packers drafted Jordy Nelson--which was understandable.

The dude always make excuses from the debacle with the Bears during rookie season. Hopefully JJ emerges this season.

Yeah, I'm looking for DD to be the #4 WR this year, with JJ and Jordy pulling ahead. :D

I don't know that anyone's looking for Jones to be a #1 guy, but I think most folks would like to see him emerge as a consistent force as a #3 receiver. Make the catches, break some tackles, block better.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

I haven't posted in months due to school but I couldn't pull back from this one. There is no way you can take Jennings off of the field. He is without a doubt our best reciever and redzone reciever. How many slants and quick ins has he caught in the past 2 years in the redzone? Blocking or not, you don't take out your best redzone recieving threat.

[cpk1994]

So it turned out to be a good throw, then?No, still a poor throw. Just a great adjusment by Jones.

[cpk1994]

I think we underestimate how much RM-AR's relationship factors into roster making decisions.

I think that will help RM stay around.

I tend to agree. No way does Martin get cut because he is A) doing PR work for the Packers as one of their ambassadors (along with Arod and Jennings) and B) supposedly one of Rodgers closest friends on the team.What if he absoulely blows in camp? He is the #5 reciever. It doesn't matter what his relationship with Rodgers is or what he is doing for the Packers. If he blows in camp he's gone. Saying there's no way he gets cut is making a big assumption.

[Partial]

I think we underestimate how much RM-AR's relationship factors into roster making decisions.

I think that will help RM stay around.

I tend to agree. No way does Martin get cut because he is A) doing PR work for the Packers as one of their ambassadors (along with Arod and Jennings) and B) supposedly one of Rodgers closest friends on the team.What if he absoulely blows in camp? He is the #5 reciever. It doesn't matter what his relationship with Rodgers is or what he is doing for the Packers. If he blows in camp he's gone. Saying there's no way he gets cut is making a big assumption.

First of all, we have no idea if he's the #5 receiver in the coaches minds. Do we have a depth chart update since the beginning of last season? No.

Second of all, 5th receivers typically don't do PR work for a club unless they're pretty popular, good players. Ruvell isn't going anywhere until his contract is up.

3rd, just about any player who sucks it up in camp will be cut unless there is a huge long term cap ramification. You don't think they'd cut Jones if he "blows" in camp?!? What about Wells?!? Other than people who were recently paid and first and second year players, very few can get by without performing.

[Scott Campbell]

First of all, we have no idea if he's the #5 receiver in the coaches minds. Do we have a depth chart update since the beginning of last season? No.


True - though he could be #6 or #7 using that logic.

[cpk1994]

I think we underestimate how much RM-AR's relationship factors into roster making decisions.

I think that will help RM stay around.

I tend to agree. No way does Martin get cut because he is A) doing PR work for the Packers as one of their ambassadors (along with Arod and Jennings) and B) supposedly one of Rodgers closest friends on the team.What if he absoulely blows in camp? He is the #5 reciever. It doesn't matter what his relationship with Rodgers is or what he is doing for the Packers. If he blows in camp he's gone. Saying there's no way he gets cut is making a big assumption.

First of all, we have no idea if he's the #5 receiver in the coaches minds. Do we have a depth chart update since the beginning of last season? No.

Second of all, 5th receivers typically don't do PR work for a club unless they're pretty popular, good players. Ruvell isn't going anywhere until his contract is up.

3rd, just about any player who sucks it up in camp will be cut unless there is a huge long term cap ramification. You don't think they'd cut Jones if he "blows" in camp?!? What about Wells?!? Other than people who were recently paid and first and second year players, very few can get by without performing.Yet you seem to think that Ruvell can really stink it up in camp and not get cut. Please tell me you are not this ignorant.

[Partial]

I don't think he's immune to getting cut but I also don't think he's going to stink it up.

The only way his spot is in jeopardy is if someone really comes on and surprises imo.

Why is everything so black and white with you?

[cpk1994]

I don't think he's immune to getting cut but I also don't think he's going to stink it up.

The only way his spot is in jeopardy is if someone really comes on and surprises imo.

Why is everything so black and white with you?I just don't think that Martin is that good and can easily see him being replaced this fall. He is #5 in my book and it would only take one player to jump in front to make him expendable.

[Gunakor]

I don't think he's immune to getting cut but I also don't think he's going to stink it up.

The only way his spot is in jeopardy is if someone really comes on and surprises imo.

Why is everything so black and white with you?I just don't think that Martin is that good and can easily see him being replaced this fall. He is #5 in my book and it would only take one player to jump in front to make him expendable.

I think he's definitely good enough to be our #5. He's 6'4" and doesn't drop many balls thrown in his direction. I'd think most teams would love to have him as their #4, including us if we didn't have Nelson or Jones. What about him makes you think he's that expendable? Who do you think is going to take his spot this year?

[Scott Campbell]

What about him makes you think he's that expendable?


I think by definition your #5 guy is expendable. But somebody would have to beat him out. And I think that's no easy feat, because he's a very good #5.

[rbaloha1]

What about him makes you think he's that expendable?


I think by definition your #5 guy is expendable. But somebody would have to beat him out. And I think that's no easy feat, because he's a very good #5.

Agreed. Swain just needs to hold on to the ball consistently. He is lucky the Packers did not cut him.

The Packers already have enough long striders. Swain fits nicely as a smaller slot receiver. IMO beats out RM for #5.

[Gunakor]

What about him makes you think he's that expendable?


I think by definition your #5 guy is expendable. But somebody would have to beat him out. And I think that's no easy feat, because he's a very good #5.

Well that's my point. If we don't keep him as our #5, someone else is gonna pick him up to be their #4. I'm all for a change if there's someone better, but I just don't see it. In addition to being talented and athletic enough to warrant hanging on to, he also has several years of experience in our offense. Whoever is trying to take his job has an awful lot to prove, whereas Martin has proven an awful lot already. He's worth keeping IMO.

[Scott Campbell]

What about him makes you think he's that expendable?


I think by definition your #5 guy is expendable. But somebody would have to beat him out. And I think that's no easy feat, because he's a very good #5.

Well that's my point. If we don't keep him as our #5, someone else is gonna pick him up to be their #4. I'm all for a change if there's someone better, but I just don't see it. In addition to being talented and athletic enough to warrant hanging on to, he also has several years of experience in our offense. Whoever is trying to take his job has an awful lot to prove, whereas Martin has proven an awful lot already. He's worth keeping IMO.

Probably. But let them settle it on the field. May the best man win.


I disagree with the notion that he is somehow now a sacred cow because he dis some PR work in the offseason.

[RashanGary]

I don't think he's immune to getting cut but I also don't think he's going to stink it up.

The only way his spot is in jeopardy is if someone really comes on and surprises imo.

Why is everything so black and white with you?

I think the, "Ruvell isn't going anywhere until his contract is up" left a fairly clear impression that you thought he was immune to being cut.

[RashanGary]

And for the record, I think Ruvell very well could be cut but wherever he ends up (here or there) I think we could see improvement from his game.

[SnakeLH2006]

I think we underestimate how much RM-AR's relationship factors into roster making decisions.

I think that will help RM stay around.

I tend to agree. No way does Martin get cut because he is A) doing PR work for the Packers as one of their ambassadors (along with Arod and Jennings) and B) supposedly one of Rodgers closest friends on the team.What if he absoulely blows in camp? He is the #5 reciever. It doesn't matter what his relationship with Rodgers is or what he is doing for the Packers. If he blows in camp he's gone. Saying there's no way he gets cut is making a big assumption.

First of all, we have no idea if he's the #5 receiver in the coaches minds. Do we have a depth chart update since the beginning of last season? No.

Second of all, 5th receivers typically don't do PR work for a club unless they're pretty popular, good players. Ruvell isn't going anywhere until his contract is up.

3rd, just about any player who sucks it up in camp will be cut unless there is a huge long term cap ramification. You don't think they'd cut Jones if he "blows" in camp?!? What about Wells?!? Other than people who were recently paid and first and second year players, very few can get by without performing.

Hold the phones...Snake's no lawyer, but did you just contradict yourself? :shock:

Translation: Partial, you want your own cake, but want to eat it too? :shock: http://mbmfiles.com/Nov2008/081125-9gAZ3Y-fntWc.gif

[Partial]

I'm implying "no way does he get cut because he will perform". He's a good, solid player.

[Scott Campbell]

Ruvell Martin is a great blocking receiver.

RM will not make the team. Jermichael Finley will develop as a red zone target.



Nice call!

[Scott Campbell]

I think we underestimate how much RM-AR's relationship factors into roster making decisions.

I think that will help RM stay around.

I tend to agree. No way does Martin get cut because he is A) doing PR work for the Packers as one of their ambassadors (along with Arod and Jennings) and B) supposedly one of Rodgers closest friends on the team.



Mythbusters.

:lol:

[Partial]

I think we underestimate how much RM-AR's relationship factors into roster making decisions.

I think that will help RM stay around.

I tend to agree. No way does Martin get cut because he is A) doing PR work for the Packers as one of their ambassadors (along with Arod and Jennings) and B) supposedly one of Rodgers closest friends on the team.



Mythbusters.

:lol:

Insert foot :(

Cannot believe they cut my favorite Martin. He was a very solid vet for us..

[Scott Campbell]

I think we underestimate how much RM-AR's relationship factors into roster making decisions.

I think that will help RM stay around.

I tend to agree. No way does Martin get cut because he is A) doing PR work for the Packers as one of their ambassadors (along with Arod and Jennings) and B) supposedly one of Rodgers closest friends on the team.



Mythbusters.

:lol:

Insert foot :(

Cannot believe they cut my favorite Martin. He was a very solid vet for us..


Good guy. Good Packer. Wish him well.

The bottom third of the roster is always subject to turnover.