Does anyhone know about traffic right of way laws?

[MadtownPacker]

Some asshole turned left in front of me when I was going straight at a 4way stop in a residential area. What is the law for this? Who has the right of way?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Depends who got to the stop sign first. If it was simultaneous, then I believe the person going straight has the right away. Sad to admit that I'm not absolutely 100% sure about this, but I'm pretty sure I'm right.

[MadtownPacker]

Depends who got to the stop sign first. If it was simultaneous, then I believe the person going straight has the right away. Sad to admit that I'm not absolutely 100% sure about this, but I'm pretty sure I'm right.The MFer tried to say I ran the stop. HE is fucking tripping, fucking wetback. I was going straight and the guy in front of him stopped right before me and went straight so I KNOW he didnt get to the stop first.

[Fosco33]

4-way stop intersections
In the United States and Canada, there are many 4-way intersections with a stop sign at every entrance. In this case, the default rule is:

Whichever vehicle stops first has priority.
If two vehicles stop at the same time, priority is given to the vehicle on the right.
If three vehicles stop at the same time, priority is given to the two vehicles going in opposite directions.
If four vehicles stop, drivers usually use gestures and other communication to establish right-of-way. In some areas, the custom is for the north-south or the more-trafficked road to have priority, although this is rare.


Right of way
Vehicles will often come into conflict with other vehicles because their intended courses of travel intersect, and thus interfere with each other's routes. The general principle that establishes who has the right to go first is called "right of way". It establishes who has the right to use the conflicting part of the road and who has to wait until the other driver does so.

Different countries have different rules that establish who has the right of way, but a common pattern is for one of the roads, usually the smaller road, to have a marking indicating that it should "yield" or "give way" to drivers on the other road. This can be in the form of a stop sign, dotted lines painted on the pavement or other devices. Drivers approaching from the road with the stop sign, or equivalent device are required to stop before the intersection and only proceed when a breach occurs in the other road's traffic. Some countries also include pedestrian crossings near the STOP signs, and in this case the approaching drivers must also allow pedestrians to cross the street before advancing.

Another way to resolve the right-of-way conflict is to establish a general rule such as the French priorité-à-droite, or priority to the right when translated to the English language. This rule establishes that the right of way belongs to the driver who is coming from the right, and the driver coming from the left should yield to him. This rule is unambiguous, but may lead to some counterintuitive situations, such as in T-intersections, where, strangely enough, traffic going straight through the top segment of the T must yield to entering traffic that comes from the vertical leg of the T.

[Partial]

what? someone hit you? what'd the cops say?

[HarveyWallbangers]

California Rules are ambigous.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/pgs16thru17.htm#intersections

But there is this nugget:

"When you turn left, give the right of way to all vehicles approaching you that are close enough to be dangerous."

[Fosco33]

MTP-

You had the RoW....

Here's some more general info. Pass it onto to all the people in your life you don't get this, PLEASE.


Four-Way Stops (Simplified)
Copyright 1996, Jim Loy



Case II - 2 cars
There are a few permutations here:

1. You got there first. See below, "Complication #3, who got there first?" In this situation, just go, unless you are a disgustingly polite driver (Complication #1).

2. He or she is on your right and you're turning right. Go.

3. He or she is on your right and you're not turning right. Wait.

4. He or she is straight ahead; and he or she is going straight or turning right; and you're going straight or turning right. Go.

5. He or she is straight ahead and he or she is turning left or you're turning left. Wait. This would also mean, if you're not turning left and they are - you go first.

6. He or she is on your left and he or she is turning right. Go.

7. He or she is on your left and he or she is not turning right. Wait.

Case III - 3 cars
If it's your turn, go. If not, try to imagine what can go wrong if you do go, and then go if you didn't just imagine your own death. Actually, this case is a simplification of case IV - 4 cars.

Case IV - 4 cars
There are hundreds of permutations here. But, actually, it's pretty simple. Go it it's your turn, or if you're turning right and nobody else is headed for that lane.

Complication #1 - the disgustingly polite driver
A disgustingly polite driver will wait for you even though you both know that it is his or her turn to go. I can imagine him or her stopping for a child, and waving the child into the path of a speeding semi. Such politeness confuses any driving situation. It can hopelessly muddle a four-way stop situation, unless you follow this advice: Flip him or her the appropriate salute, and go.

Complication #2 - which way will they turn?
Cases II through IV depend upon which way the other drivers are turning. Their turn signals may offer a clue:

1. Some people do not signaling
2. Some people will turn the same way that they are signaling
3. Some people will not turn the same way that they are signaling



There are six principles which will help you sort these out:
1. You can legally assume that people will turn the same way that they are signaling, or that they are not turning when they are not signaling.

2. You can legally ram them if they are lying.

3. No witness will stick around to back up your story about whether or not anybody signaled.

4. Drivers (capital "D") do not signal.

5. drivers (small "d") do not signal.

6. All other drivers signal.

Complication #3 - who got there first?
"Who" got there first, "what" got there second, "I don't know" got there third. Sorry, that was merely an allusion. In theory, a four-way stop is simple. The cars stopped in a certain order, and they go in the same order. In reality:

1. Some people don't exactly stop. So, when did they arrive at the four-way stop?

2. Some people stop one or two car-lengths behind the stop sign. When did they arrive at the four-way stop?

3. Sometimes two cars really do stop simultaneously.

4. Driver A thinks that driver B got there first, and driver B thinks that driver A got there first. This is a simplification of the next situation.

5. Driver A thinks that driver B got there first. Driver B thinks that driver C got there first. And driver C thinks that driver A got there first. From experience, I would say that this, along with various 4-car permutations, is a very common situation.

6. At least one driver has no clue. This has probably happened before he reached the four-way stop.

So, when there's doubt about who got there first, who should go first? Here's a handy rule: "I go first, you go second, everyone else hesitates." My car is the one with the dents in each door.

Complication #4 - pedestrians
Any of the above situations can be further complicated by the intrusion of any number of pedestrians. You won't see them lining up and going one at a time. They just keep walking right on through the intersection, dodging cars. While pedestrians slow down the normal clockwork of the four-way stop, they also introduce a logical puzzle to the situation. If you are about to go, and a pedestrian walks in front of you, how does that affect the order of who goes when? Do you get to go first once the pedestrian is out of your way? Should all the other cars wait for you? Or, have you lost your place and must wait for 3 more cars to go. This guideline should help: "If you have to wait for a pedestrian, you are now a time-bomb waiting to go off. To minimize the loss of life, you should be allowed to go first."

Complication #5 - the four-way stop starburst maneuver
This is when all four cars go at once. All four cars stop, nearly touching, nose to fender. And, nobody can go forward. The driver who backs up loses all respect from his or her family. Besides, the next four cars have gone forward by now. So no one can back up, if he or she wanted to. The four-way stop has now achieved critical mass. The only solution is for one car to be removed, sideways, by a fork-lift. I'm sorry to say that I've never seen this done. I understand this is very popular in Europe, at all kinds of intersections.

four-way stop theory
Einstein's theory of Special Relativity says, among other things, that two observers, travelling at different speeds, cannot agree on when something happened. In fact observer A may say that event X occurred before event Y, while observer B may say that event Y happened first. And both observers are right. This leads to the "four-way stop paradox."

A theory that seems to have even more to say about four-way stops is Natural Selection.

[GrnBay007]

Who cares about the law, is your car ok? :mrgreen:


j/k, u ok too? :cool:

[MadtownPacker]

My car is dinged up but still driveable. I had my seatbelt on and just got the wind knocked out of me.


This would also mean, if you're not turning left and they are - you go first.

He was turning left, I was going straight. So does tha mean Im not at fault?

[GrnBay007]

My car is dinged up but still driveable. I had my seatbelt on and just got the wind knocked out of me.


This would also mean, if you're not turning left and they are - you go first.

He was turning left, I was going straight. So does tha mean Im not at fault?

If you are going straight and the on-coming driver is turning left, you should go first....that's at a two way, cross traffic has no stop. At a 4 way whoever gets there first has ROW. Sounds like you were right either way. Did the cops show? Who got a ticket?

Sue him.....I'm sure you are feeling emotional and physical pain about now. :mrgreen: j/k :twisted:

[MJZiggy]

The insurance company will assess percentages of fault. It sounds like you had the right of way, but they'll likely tell you that you were supposed to stop when it became apparent that the idiot was going anyway. Unless, of course you have geico which paid my last claim without asking a single question about it. It will also depend largely upon what was written on the police report and if there were any citations given. Now strap on a neck brace and go see your local ambulance chaser!!

[Zool]

If you sat there and waited for a guy in front of him to go, then you had the right of way.

[Harlan Huckleby]

He was turning left, I was going straight. So does tha mean Im not at fault?

Well, you had right of way. But what really happened? That fucker tried to take away your right, so you kept coming in little game of chicken. Am I right? Road rage, it's a way of life.

A similar thing happened to me last week. I stopped completely, and the dumb bitch just kept coming. We collided at about 1 MPH. She had damage, I had none. She did a slow whirl in center of incredibly busy intersection, nearly causing more accidents, avoided my gesture to pull over, then she took off. I think she was on crack, and wasn't interested in talking to a nice policeman.

[Scott Campbell]

Mad,

Did he have his signal on?

[Patler]

Defensive driving, a lost (or never found) art for most drivers in major cities!
:sad:

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

He was turning left, I was going straight. So does tha mean Im not at fault?[/quote]


Not if you got their frist. It doesn't matter which way you were heading, if you got their first it's your right of way.

Was there any witnesses that saw the crash that could help you prove your case?

[MadtownPacker]

Thank you all for the great advice. Except Harlan, he is a dumb SOB who should keep his mouth shut.

I have one witness but I dont know what they saw.

[Patler]

I have one witness but I dont know what they saw.

WELL... hurry up and TELL them what they saw!!!! :mrgreen:

[MJZiggy]

Oddly, there is evidence that that works.

[MadtownPacker]

You are not a nice guy Rock. :mrgreen:

OK this is gonna be the best evidence I have. It is a skid mark from when I hit the brakes. If you look you will see I was well over halfway into the intersection when the collision took place. Does this crapy pic do me any good? I have color ones but this B&W one shows it the best.

http://packerrats.com/ratchat/car.jpg

[MJZiggy]

Can't see it.

[Little Whiskey]

If four vehicles stop, drivers usually use gestures and other communication to establish right-of-way.


oh come on, am i the only one to chuckle at this line????


mad, you drive a '69. i doubt you felt anything!!! by the way did larry wilcox and eric estrada show up.

[MadtownPacker]

You dont see the white lines on the road in the red circle?

[MadtownPacker]

mad, you drive a '69. i doubt you felt anything!!! by the way did larry wilcox and eric estrada show up.The '69 got rolled over in a grape field over a decade ago. :sad:

[Deputy Nutz]

Way to go. You crazy Mexican Drivers. Always somebody else's fault.
J/K, well sort off.

[MJZiggy]

No, I mean the image is not coming up for me. Tried IE but it's not there either. I'm starting to think Microsoft has something against me this week.

[Fosco33]

No, I mean the image is not coming up for me. Tried IE but it's not there either. I'm starting to think Microsoft has something against me this week.

Looks fine to me, I'd suggest inverting the image colors...

http://img7.picsplace.to/img7/24/car_001.jpg (http://picsplace.to/)

And my above post (on the 4-way rules) was actually a comedic piece written by some web author. Glad you thought it was funny. :lol:

http://www.jimloy.com/humor/fourway.htm

[Patler]

Mad, as a point of idle curiosity, where was the point of impact on each vehicle? Describe it fairly specifically, not just "front" or "side".

[MJZiggy]

Thanks Fosco. That worked, but in reality I needed a reboot. Problem solved. I'm telling you, Microsoft and I are NOT on good terms this week.

[MadtownPacker]

where was the point of impact on each vehicle?

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/connect.jpg

[Patler]

where was the point of impact on each vehicle?

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/connect.jpg

Is the positioning of the cars in the intersection relatively accurate, or should the MTP car be backed up more, with the *#?hole car farther into the intersection to turn into the righthand lane of the cross street? From the positioning of the damage on the cars, I suspect I am correct.

[MJZiggy]

Or, did MTP try to swerve to avoid the accident. Might that cause similar damage?

[Patler]

Or, did MTP try to swerve to avoid the accident. Might that cause similar damage?

Now, now, now! Don't be giving him ideas. I want the REAL story!!!!

[MJZiggy]

Or, did MTP try to swerve to avoid the accident. Might that cause similar damage?

Now, now, now! Don't be giving him ideas. I want the REAL story!!!!

I'm trying to assess, like you, I believe, how the damage came to be on the right fender of Mad's car instead of the front or left.

[Patler]

Or, did MTP try to swerve to avoid the accident. Might that cause similar damage?

Now, now, now! Don't be giving him ideas. I want the REAL story!!!!

I'm trying to assess, like you, I believe, how the damage came to be on the right fender of Mad's car instead of the front or left.

Many years ago, I had a physics professor who was a paid consultant for accident reconstructions. He had great problems for us to work on. Good old Prof. Ike Newton! (Not really!) The first part is true, though!

[Deputy Nutz]

AHH, you said ass-ess!!!!

[MadtownPacker]

Is the positioning of the cars in the intersection relatively accurate, or should the MTP car be backed up more, with the *#?hole car farther into the intersection to turn into the righthand lane of the cross street? From the positioning of the damage on the cars, I suspect I am correct.
Yes the postioning is right and if you look at the tire skid pic I put on page 1 you can see my front tire is past the mid section of the intersection when the collison place. I believe what happened is the "asshole" made a rolling stop and tried to zip in front of me while I was already in the interesection. If you notice on the drawing above his car is almost in postion to turn into the wrong lane.

This was some arrogant lil compadre, about 55 with ostrich cowboy boots, in a newer sports car, with his gold chain and cross looking like it was worth more then my car and had probably downed a couple of Coronas on a hot Sunday afternoon. Guess he felt he didnt have to wait.

[MJZiggy]

Sounds like a real winner :roll:

[woodbuck27]

With a clear sign like this who could be confused?


http://www.kutu.com/crash/takeover.jpg

[woodbuck27]

http://www.ohioinsurance.org/municipal_tax/images/cartoon_1.jpg