Favorite duds and disappointments

[SkinBasket]

Somewhere between wakey wakey and hands off snakey this morning, I was randomly recalling a string of unrelated images and events. One of them was a fond memory that occurred while watching a 1994 40-3 victory over the Bears. A short time later, I remembered that as LeShon Johnson's best game as a Packer. I liked LeShon and my disappointment in him was only rivaled by my disappointment in Terry Glenn's tenure as a Packer.

So there you have it, my two favorite Packer duds/disappointments. It's easy to say who you root for when they turn out to be Bret Favre or Reggie White, but where are all our Tony Mandarich, BJ Sander, and Derrick Mayes fans?

[HarveyWallbangers]

I thought Walter Stanley was going to be the real deal.

[sheepshead]

I thought Ray Rhodes was going to be a good head coach.

[Scott Campbell]

I bought into the Brent Fullwood hype. He played at Auburn just like Bo Jackson - only he's faster.

[RashanGary]

Mike Hawkins

[vince]

Terrell Buckly and Amhad Carroll each made me want to piss on my TV many times.

[retailguy]

Robert Ferguson. :?

[SkinBasket]

I thought Walter Stanley was going to be the real deal.

I'll admit, I didn't remember a Walter Stanley. When I looked, I came across this site, which I thought was kind of neat in that you can just browse through the draft for each year and take a look at the career stats for each player. All very concise and an easy place to get lost down memory lane.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/draft/1985.htm

[GrnBay007]

Wanted to see Ferguson make a big comeback after the clothesline hit in 2004. :(

[SkinBasket]

Wanted to see Ferguson make a big comeback after the clothesline hit in 2004. :(

I prefer the term "running lariat." It sounds much more sophisticated.

[Zool]

Thought Whisper Goodman was going to be something.

Went to high school with Darrell Thompson. I really had high hopes for him after his career at U of M.

[Bossman641]

I will admit to being a big Derrick Mayes fan. I liked Leshon too. I also once had high hopes for Terry Mickens.

[pbmax]

Charles Lee and Torrance Marshall.

[Deputy Nutz]

Torrence Marshall

[Partial]

I will admit to being a big Derrick Mayes fan.

Same. Then I liked Morency too. No Samkon Gado fans :D

[hoosier]

Rich Campbell. Not because of anything he ever showed in an NFL game, just because QBs picked #6 overall are supposed to turn out good. There were three HOFers picked after Campbell in the 1981 draft.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Craig Newsome.

[Bossman641]

Charles Lee and Torrance Marshall.

I have one of those daily Packer calendars that gives facts, trivia questions, and such. The other day the trivia was something like "Prior to James Jones in 2007, who was the last Packers rookie WR to start opening day?"

I was shocked to find out the answer was Charles Lee in 2000.

http://www.nfl.com/players/charleslee/gamelogs?id=LEE120213&season=2000

Some of you might remember better than me, but what the hell was going on in 2000 that we started a 7th round pick at WR in week 1?

[Bossman641]

Craig Newsome.

I'm not sure I'd count Newsome as a dud. I remember him being a pretty good CB until he tore up his knee or whatever.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'll admit, I didn't remember a Walter Stanley. When I looked, I came across this site, which I thought was kind of neat in that you can just browse through the draft for each year and take a look at the career stats for each player. All very concise and an easy place to get lost down memory lane.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/draft/1985.htm

I like their new layout.

[sharpe1027]

Antuan Edwards - High pick seemed to have potential, major stress on "seemed".
Corey Bradford - Kept showing flashes suggesting that he could be a consistent deep threat. Consitently disappeared.

[pbmax]

How about another receiving Charles? Charles Jordan. At one time he seemed to be in the same vein as Brooks and Freeman as a returner first then establishing himself as a receiver. Never happened.

[sheepshead]

This should be the Official Break-Your-Heart Thread.

[bigcoz75]

Craig Nall

[Cheesehead Craig]

Craig Newsome.

I'm not sure I'd count Newsome as a dud. I remember him being a pretty good CB until he tore up his knee or whatever.
Injuries really killed his career, I was disappointed in that. It's the dud/disappointment thread after all.

[Fritz]

Derrick Mayes, Torrance Marshall, Mark D'Onofrio, Don Davey, David Whitehurst, Travis Jervey, Jonathan Brown, Anthony "Hammer Toe" Lucas, and Gary Berry.

[SkinBasket]

Derrick Mayes, Torrance Marshall, Mark D'Onofrio, Don Davey, David Whitehurst, Travis Jervey, Jonathan Brown, Anthony "Hammer Toe" Lucas, and Gary Berry.

You need a hug.

[oregonpackfan]

Any of you old-timers remember WR Bob Long? He was supposed to be the fastest, white, wide receiver ever to wear the green and gold. He never amounted to much.

Fullback Jim Grabowski was also a major disappointment. He and halfback(that's what they called tailbacks in those days) Donny Anderson were supposed to effectively replace the star running tandem of fullback Jim Taylor and halfback Paul Hornung.

While Anderson had a good NFL career(but not great), Grabowski suffered knee problems and had a short, ineffective, NFL career.

[pbmax]

Derrick Mayes, Torrance Marshall, Mark D'Onofrio, Don Davey, David Whitehurst, Travis Jervey, Jonathan Brown, Anthony "Hammer Toe" Lucas, and Gary Berry.
Don Davey had a decent career after leaving the Packers for Jacksonville. He runs a successful investing/brokerage out of Florida now. The Badgers are continually trying to get him to work for the Athletic Dept.

[AV David]

Travis Roadrunner Williams

[swede]

Any of you old-timers remember WR Bob Long? He was supposed to be the fastest, white, wide receiver ever to wear the green and gold. He never amounted to much.


Bob Long owned the first Pizza Hut in Appleton.
Back in the day of Chef-Boyardee it was pizza heaven.

For that I will always be grateful.

[Fritz]

Any of you old-timers remember WR Bob Long? He was supposed to be the fastest, white, wide receiver ever to wear the green and gold. He never amounted to much.

Fullback Jim Grabowski was also a major disappointment. He and halfback(that's what they called tailbacks in those days) Donny Anderson were supposed to effectively replace the star running tandem of fullback Jim Taylor and halfback Paul Hornung.

While Anderson had a good NFL career(but not great), Grabowski suffered knee problems and had a short, ineffective, NFL career.

Ah, the "Gold Dust Twins." Yes, I remember.

[cpk1994]

Craig NallYou should ask Merlin about him. He wanted Nall over Rodgers. :lol:

I should bring up one of Mike Sherman's "greatest" moves as GM, R-Cal Truluck. Shermy go him for a 5th and a 6th rounder. That was one hell of a coup. :lol:

[retailguy]

Craig NallYou should ask Merlin about him. He wanted Nall over Rodgers. :lol:

I should bring up one of Mike Sherman's "greatest" moves as GM, R-Cal Truluck. Shermy go him for a 5th and a 6th rounder. That was one hell of a coup. :lol:

when do we get to the point where you tell us what YOU think, instead of bashing others?

[sheepshead]

I liked Nall too. In training camp, if you didnt know who was who, you would have thought he was our starter the year I saw him up there.

[Freak Out]

I always thought Del Rodgers would be around longer than he was.

[Freak Out]

Robbie Bosco.

[cpk1994]

Craig NallYou should ask Merlin about him. He wanted Nall over Rodgers. :lol:

I should bring up one of Mike Sherman's "greatest" moves as GM, R-Cal Truluck. Shermy go him for a 5th and a 6th rounder. That was one hell of a coup. :lol:

when do we get to the point where you tell us what YOU think, instead of bashing others?I think I did. Read the second sentence of my post you quoted.

[cpk1994]

Robbie Bosco.NOw that you mention him it brought to my mind:

Chuck Fusina
Vince Ferrigamo
Paul McJulien
Dean Dorsey

[retailguy]

Craig NallYou should ask Merlin about him. He wanted Nall over Rodgers. :lol:

I should bring up one of Mike Sherman's "greatest" moves as GM, R-Cal Truluck. Shermy go him for a 5th and a 6th rounder. That was one hell of a coup. :lol:

when do we get to the point where you tell us what YOU think, instead of bashing others?I think I did. Read the second sentence of my post you quoted.

too bad you bashed both Merlin and Sherman in your "response". Totally clouded your perspective.

Which is more important to you?

[Bossman641]

I like Sherman and can't even defend the Truluck trade. That was horrible.

[cpk1994]

Craig NallYou should ask Merlin about him. He wanted Nall over Rodgers. :lol:

I should bring up one of Mike Sherman's "greatest" moves as GM, R-Cal Truluck. Shermy go him for a 5th and a 6th rounder. That was one hell of a coup. :lol:

when do we get to the point where you tell us what YOU think, instead of bashing others?I think I did. Read the second sentence of my post you quoted.

too bad you bashed both Merlin and Sherman in your "response". Totally clouded your perspective.

Which is more important to you?R-Cal Truluck was a horrible trade and a colossial dud no mwtter who the GM was. Perspective was very crydtal clear on that one.

[sheepshead]

Ohhhh How about Joe Johnson?

[cpk1994]

Ohhhh How about Joe Johnson?Well that one can be defended somewhat at least.

[Bossman641]

Ohhhh How about Joe Johnson?

I think I just threw up in my mouth.

[Guiness]

Surprised no one mentioned Jamal.

A guy I thought was going to stick was Bill Ferrario. Big guard out of Wi, won the Outland award, iirc.

[DannoMac21]

I was a huge Terrence Murphy fan after he was drafted. It's such a sad story how his career ended.

I was also a huge Roell Preston fan. I have his jersey. I don't know why.

[Bossman641]

I was also a huge Roell Preston fan. I have his jersey. I don't know why.

Hahah, that is funny. Custom ordered?

[StPaulPackFan]

My biggest disappointment was Eddie Lee Ivory. He was an unbelievable RB prior to injuring his knee. After the injury he never came close to his old form. He could have been great one. :(

[swede]

My biggest disappointment was Eddie Lee Ivory. He was an unbelievable RB prior to injuring his knee. After the injury he never came close to his old form. He could have been great one. :(

Agreed :(

Young 'uns won't know how close we were to our own Adrian Peterson with that kid, and then his knee was shattered. Unluckily for him it iwas in the stone age days before proper surgery.

He played for a while at receiver I think after.

[retailguy]

R-Cal Truluck was a horrible trade and a colossial dud no mwtter who the GM was. Perspective was very crydtal clear on that one.

You are missing the point. The point was you spent so much time "bashing" others I didn't even "see" you had an opinion. (You typically don't).

Now, about your opinion.

As I recall, we obtained Truluck with 5th and 6th round picks at a position of NEED. (Pass rusher). We got him with picks from Oakland for Marques Anderson, so they weren't really "our" picks. (though picking draft picks would probably have been better....)

Truluck had his best season as a pro in 2003 registering 5 sacks in a part time role with Kansas City. He was young, and inexperienced with that "tangible upside" you seem to value so much.

Did it work out? Nope. Does it look silly today? Sure, with the benefit of hindsight. At the time, there was legitimate possibility...

[mraynrand]

Craig NallYou should ask Merlin about him. He wanted Nall over Rodgers. :lol:

I should bring up one of Mike Sherman's "greatest" moves as GM, R-Cal Truluck. Shermy go him for a 5th and a 6th rounder. That was one hell of a coup. :lol:

when do we get to the point where you tell us what YOU think, instead of bashing others?

When are you going to ignore other people bashing others and just post YOUR thoughts so we can bash you?

[retailguy]

Craig NallYou should ask Merlin about him. He wanted Nall over Rodgers. :lol:

I should bring up one of Mike Sherman's "greatest" moves as GM, R-Cal Truluck. Shermy go him for a 5th and a 6th rounder. That was one hell of a coup. :lol:

when do we get to the point where you tell us what YOU think, instead of bashing others?

When are you going to ignore other people bashing others and just post YOUR thoughts so we can bash you?

:?: isn't that what I just did, and, what you just did?

[Joemailman]

I bought a Tony Mandarich jersey.

[Gunakor]

R-Cal Truluck was a horrible trade and a colossial dud no mwtter who the GM was. Perspective was very crydtal clear on that one.

You are missing the point. The point was you spent so much time "bashing" others I didn't even "see" you had an opinion. (You typically don't).

Now, about your opinion.

As I recall, we obtained Truluck with 5th and 6th round picks at a position of NEED. (Pass rusher). We got him with picks from Oakland for Marques Anderson, so they weren't really "our" picks. (though picking draft picks would probably have been better....)

Truluck had his best season as a pro in 2003 registering 5 sacks in a part time role with Kansas City. He was young, and inexperienced with that "tangible upside" you seem to value so much.

Did it work out? Nope. Does it look silly today? Sure, with the benefit of hindsight. At the time, there was legitimate possibility...

I remember being a little bit giddy about Truluck when that move was made. He did look okay when playing for the Chiefs the year before, so I was happy with the move.

Even considering hindsight, you have to remember who was drafting for us at the time. There's no guarantee Sherman's 5th and 6th round draft picks would be any better either.

[TravisWilliams23]

Any of you old-timers remember WR Bob Long? He was supposed to be the fastest, white, wide receiver ever to wear the green and gold. He never amounted to much.

Fullback Jim Grabowski was also a major disappointment. He and halfback(that's what they called tailbacks in those days) Donny Anderson were supposed to effectively replace the star running tandem of fullback Jim Taylor and halfback Paul Hornung.

While Anderson had a good NFL career(but not great), Grabowski suffered knee problems and had a short, ineffective, NFL career.

I remember them well, Oregon. Grabowski did recover a fumble in the 1966 Championship game at Dallas and scored with it and Anderson was money on the final drive in the Ice Bowl a year later. Can't say I'm really down on either one of them because of the championship teams they were both part of.
However:

Jamal Reynolds and Tony Mandarich just make me cry. Especially Tony.
Coulda had Barry Sanders!!!

[Gunakor]

Coulda had Barry Sanders!!!

Or Deion Sanders.
Or Derrick Thomas.

:huh:

[Freak Out]

My biggest disappointment was Eddie Lee Ivory. He was an unbelievable RB prior to injuring his knee. After the injury he never came close to his old form. He could have been great one. :(

I think we need to keep injuries out of this one....ELI was fantastic...not a disappointment at all before he was injured...we need to stick with guys who just stunk it up. :lol:

[cpk1994]

R-Cal Truluck was a horrible trade and a colossial dud no mwtter who the GM was. Perspective was very crydtal clear on that one.

You are missing the point. The point was you spent so much time "bashing" others I didn't even "see" you had an opinion. (You typically don't).

Now, about your opinion.

As I recall, we obtained Truluck with 5th and 6th round picks at a position of NEED. (Pass rusher). We got him with picks from Oakland for Marques Anderson, so they weren't really "our" picks. (though picking draft picks would probably have been better....)

Truluck had his best season as a pro in 2003 registering 5 sacks in a part time role with Kansas City. He was young, and inexperienced with that "tangible upside" you seem to value so much.

Did it work out? Nope. Does it look silly today? Sure, with the benefit of hindsight. At the time, there was legitimate possibility...I didn't like the trade at all from the start., especially giving up two picks form him. It left me scratching my head.

[Bretsky]

Wanted to see Ferguson make a big comeback after the clothesline hit in 2004. :(


A comeback ???????????/ That implies he was something before the hit

Instead of returning to suck, he came back to sucked more

[Rastak]

Wanted to see Ferguson make a big comeback after the clothesline hit in 2004. :(


A comeback ???????????/ That implies he was something before the hit

Instead of returning to suck, he came back to sucked more


I got a chance to watch him as a 3rd/4th receiver with the Vikings and he throws a mean downfield block. That's about the best I can do defending the guy. He does hustle and hit guys but ain't open all that often. Dude does have alot of pride and certainly seemed to play hard....he just isn't that great.

[Bretsky]

R-Cal Truluck was a horrible trade and a colossial dud no mwtter who the GM was. Perspective was very crydtal clear on that one.

You are missing the point. The point was you spent so much time "bashing" others I didn't even "see" you had an opinion. (You typically don't).

Now, about your opinion.

As I recall, we obtained Truluck with 5th and 6th round picks at a position of NEED. (Pass rusher). We got him with picks from Oakland for Marques Anderson, so they weren't really "our" picks. (though picking draft picks would probably have been better....)

Truluck had his best season as a pro in 2003 registering 5 sacks in a part time role with Kansas City. He was young, and inexperienced with that "tangible upside" you seem to value so much.

Did it work out? Nope. Does it look silly today? Sure, with the benefit of hindsight. At the time, there was legitimate possibility...

I remember being a little bit giddy about Truluck when that move was made. He did look okay when playing for the Chiefs the year before, so I was happy with the move.

Even considering hindsight, you have to remember who was drafting for us at the time. There's no guarantee Sherman's 5th and 6th round draft picks would be any better either.

Nothing is guaranteed

But just a thought

Has TTT ever delivered anything close to Mike Sherman's best 5th round draft choice ? :?:

[channtheman]

You know I was always disappointed when Samkon Gado got hurt. He was really fun to watch and he was having a great season other than his inability to hold onto the ball. I thought if he hadn't gotten hurt he would have had a chance for 1000 yards and then maybe he would have kept playing for the Packers instead of whatever he did after he got injured. It's amazing how little that margin for error is.

[Rastak]

You know I was always disappointed when Samkon Gado got hurt. He was really fun to watch and he was having a great season other than his inability to hold onto the ball. I thought if he hadn't gotten hurt he would have had a chance for 1000 yards and then maybe he would have kept playing for the Packers instead of whatever he did after he got injured. It's amazing how little that margin for error is.


Plus he was a great story, so you have to root for a guy like that.

[Bretsky]

Mandarich is obvious
Ditto for Buckley
Ditto for Derrick Mayes


BUT..........FRANKIE NEAL

I thought that guy was going to be the real deal

What the hell ever happened to Frankie Neal ?

[Joemailman]

Ah yes, Frankie Neal...promising player who showed up at training camp his 2nd year about 20 pounds overweight. He said his problem with Green Bay was "I'm a ladies man, and there aren't any ladies in Green Bay."

[Rastak]

Ah yes, Frankie Neal...promising player who showed up at training camp his 2nd year about 20 pounds overweight. He said his problem with Green Bay was "I'm a ladies man, and there aren't any ladies in Green Bay."


Did the ladies kick his ass as he left?

[Joemailman]

I'm not sure if he was still in Green Bay when he said it.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ah yes, Frankie Neal...promising player who showed up at training camp his 2nd year about 20 pounds overweight. He said his problem with Green Bay was "I'm a ladies man, and there aren't any ladies in Green Bay."

Ty is similar to Frankie, cept that he is happy when there aren't any ladies.

Ty prefers his women fast, loose, and easy.

[Gunakor]

R-Cal Truluck was a horrible trade and a colossial dud no mwtter who the GM was. Perspective was very crydtal clear on that one.

You are missing the point. The point was you spent so much time "bashing" others I didn't even "see" you had an opinion. (You typically don't).

Now, about your opinion.

As I recall, we obtained Truluck with 5th and 6th round picks at a position of NEED. (Pass rusher). We got him with picks from Oakland for Marques Anderson, so they weren't really "our" picks. (though picking draft picks would probably have been better....)

Truluck had his best season as a pro in 2003 registering 5 sacks in a part time role with Kansas City. He was young, and inexperienced with that "tangible upside" you seem to value so much.

Did it work out? Nope. Does it look silly today? Sure, with the benefit of hindsight. At the time, there was legitimate possibility...

I remember being a little bit giddy about Truluck when that move was made. He did look okay when playing for the Chiefs the year before, so I was happy with the move.

Even considering hindsight, you have to remember who was drafting for us at the time. There's no guarantee Sherman's 5th and 6th round draft picks would be any better either.

Nothing is guaranteed

But just a thought

Has TTT ever delivered anything close to Mike Sherman's best 5th round draft choice ? :?:

Mike Sherman hasn't delivered anything better than Mike Sherman's best 5th round draft choice either. And I forgot about Hunter Hillenmeyer, also drafted in the 5th round. Okay, you win, maybe Shermy had a little success there.

Ole Teddy's still got him beat in the first 4 rounds though. Has TT ever delivered anything close to Sherman's worst 3rd round pick? :lol:

[StPaulPackFan]

My biggest disappointment was Eddie Lee Ivory. He was an unbelievable RB prior to injuring his knee. After the injury he never came close to his old form. He could have been great one. :(

I think we need to keep injuries out of this one....ELI was fantastic...not a disappointment at all before he was injured...we need to stick with guys who just stunk it up. :lol:

It's still hard not to be crushed when a great player gets his career cut short. This would also apply to Tim Lewis.

As for stinking it up, one name sticks with me from my childhood: Mark Lee. From what I remember, he was always in position to make interceptions, but he couldn't catch a cold. I remember my dad calling him Mark "Hands of Stone" Lee. In reality he probably wasn't as bad as I remember but my those memories of my dad yelling at him through the TV are priceless.

[The_Dude]

Travis Jervey...so fast just couldn't hold on to the ball. I remember the first touchdown he scored I think he fumbled in the endzone. Thought he was going to be a awesome return man

[Administrator]

Has TT ever delivered anything close to Sherman's worst 3rd round pick? :lol:

How about Cory Rodgers? Tho' I think he was a 4th? But terrible, notwithstanding.

[Scott Campbell]

Has TT ever delivered anything close to Sherman's worst 3rd round pick? :lol:

How about Cory Rodgers? Tho' I think he was a 4th? But terrible, notwithstanding.

He didn't make it out of camp - did he?

[Administrator]

Has TT ever delivered anything close to Sherman's worst 3rd round pick? :lol:

How about Cory Rodgers? Tho' I think he was a 4th? But terrible, notwithstanding.

He didn't make it out of camp - did he?

Nope. Ted's only reply was "sometimes you make a mistake". Yep.

[Gunakor]

Has TT ever delivered anything close to Sherman's worst 3rd round pick? :lol:

How about Cory Rodgers? Tho' I think he was a 4th? But terrible, notwithstanding.

Worse than BJ Sander? I didn't think it got any worse than that. I'd expect my 6th or 7th round punter to do better. We had to carry 2 punters. It was embarrassing.

[cpk1994]

Has TT ever delivered anything close to Sherman's worst 3rd round pick? :lol:

How about Cory Rodgers? Tho' I think he was a 4th? But terrible, notwithstanding.

Worse than BJ Sander? I didn't think it got any worse than that. I'd expect my 6th or 7th round punter to do better. We had to carry 2 punters. It was embarrassing.We didn't have to carry two punters. We did becuase Mike Sherman thought someone would take Sander if he put him on the practice squad. Sherman was afraid thatA punter that had a gross average of sub 20 yards would be taken by someone else. This perfectly illustrated just how incompetent Sherman was. He couldn't even admit he made a mistake.

[Bretsky]

R-Cal Truluck was a horrible trade and a colossial dud no mwtter who the GM was. Perspective was very crydtal clear on that one.

You are missing the point. The point was you spent so much time "bashing" others I didn't even "see" you had an opinion. (You typically don't).

Now, about your opinion.

As I recall, we obtained Truluck with 5th and 6th round picks at a position of NEED. (Pass rusher). We got him with picks from Oakland for Marques Anderson, so they weren't really "our" picks. (though picking draft picks would probably have been better....)

Truluck had his best season as a pro in 2003 registering 5 sacks in a part time role with Kansas City. He was young, and inexperienced with that "tangible upside" you seem to value so much.

Did it work out? Nope. Does it look silly today? Sure, with the benefit of hindsight. At the time, there was legitimate possibility...

I remember being a little bit giddy about Truluck when that move was made. He did look okay when playing for the Chiefs the year before, so I was happy with the move.

Even considering hindsight, you have to remember who was drafting for us at the time. There's no guarantee Sherman's 5th and 6th round draft picks would be any better either.

Nothing is guaranteed

But just a thought

Has TTT ever delivered anything close to Mike Sherman's best 5th round draft choice ? :?:

Mike Sherman hasn't delivered anything better than Mike Sherman's best 5th round draft choice either. And I forgot about Hunter Hillenmeyer, also drafted in the 5th round. Okay, you win, maybe Shermy had a little success there.

Ole Teddy's still got him beat in the first 4 rounds though. Has TT ever delivered anything close to Sherman's worst 3rd round pick? :lol:


Hey this is a fun game; you win there

Has Sherman ever delivered anything close to TTT's worse 4th round pick ??

[ThunderDan]

I was sure Darrell Thompson was going to be all world.

[DannoMac21]

I was also a huge Roell Preston fan. I have his jersey. I don't know why.

Hahah, that is funny. Custom ordered?

Surprisingly no. A sports store at a mall here in Milwaukee had it at the time.

[Fritz]

Ah yes, Frankie Neal...promising player who showed up at training camp his 2nd year about 20 pounds overweight. He said his problem with Green Bay was "I'm a ladies man, and there aren't any ladies in Green Bay."

Ty is similar to Frankie, cept that he is happy when there aren't any ladies.

Ty prefers his women fast, loose, and easy.

I was thinking the same thing, Ty. Frankie's problem was that there probably are a lot of ladies in Green Bay and thereabots (I believe some of those ladies are on Packerrats). From some of the stories that have been posted here in other threads about Favre's hijinks with Winters and Chmura, sounds like ol' Frankie might've found what he was looking for if he'd hung around with those guys...

[Gunakor]

Mike Sherman hasn't delivered anything better than Mike Sherman's best 5th round draft choice either. And I forgot about Hunter Hillenmeyer, also drafted in the 5th round. Okay, you win, maybe Shermy had a little success there.

Ole Teddy's still got him beat in the first 4 rounds though. Has TT ever delivered anything close to Sherman's worst 3rd round pick? :lol:


Hey this is a fun game; you win there

Has Sherman ever delivered anything close to TTT's worse 4th round pick ??

That's tough, because Sherman didn't draft a whole lot of players in the 4th round during his tenure here. Too many times he traded that pick away to move up. I suppose it depends on how you feel about Marques Anderson being taken in the 3rd. Yeah, he made it through camp years ago, but almost certainly wouldn't this year because he wasn't a very good player. Hooray for 3rd round failure. Sherman was good at that, probably his trademark quality as our GM.

[oregonpackfan]

As for stinking it up, one name sticks with me from my childhood: Mark Lee. From what I remember, he was always in position to make interceptions, but he couldn't catch a cold. I remember my dad calling him Mark "Hands of Stone" Lee. In reality he probably wasn't as bad as I remember but my those memories of my dad yelling at him through the TV are priceless.[/quote]

I don't agree with your Dad's view of Mark Lee. He was one of the better players on the Packers' defensive unit during he time he played. He was also a respected team leader. I remember coach Bart Starr having him as a guest on his weekly show.

[Freak Out]

As for stinking it up, one name sticks with me from my childhood: Mark Lee. From what I remember, he was always in position to make interceptions, but he couldn't catch a cold. I remember my dad calling him Mark "Hands of Stone" Lee. In reality he probably wasn't as bad as I remember but my those memories of my dad yelling at him through the TV are priceless.

I don't agree with your Dad's view of Mark Lee. He was one of the better players on the Packers' defensive unit during he time he played. He was also a respected team leader. I remember coach Bart Starr having him as a guest on his weekly show.[/quote]

He was the one with the shaved head correct? I have his rookie card. :lol:

Speaking of cards...anyone want a few sheets of Packer trading cards from the 80s to add to the kids collection?

[K-town]

Estus Hood.
Bob Hudson.
Randy Scott.
Barry Smith.
Ollie Smith.
Dave Davis.
Jim Carter.
John Jefferson.

[cpk1994]

Estus Hood.
Bob Hudson.
Randy Scott.
Barry Smith.
Ollie Smith.
Dave Davis.
Jim Carter.
John Jefferson.I gotta say that the treatment Jim Carter got from the fans was absolie BS. Sad, really.

[Chevelle2]

Tyrone Davis. :oops:

[StPaulPackFan]

As for stinking it up, one name sticks with me from my childhood: Mark Lee. From what I remember, he was always in position to make interceptions, but he couldn't catch a cold. I remember my dad calling him Mark "Hands of Stone" Lee. In reality he probably wasn't as bad as I remember but my those memories of my dad yelling at him through the TV are priceless.

I don't agree with your Dad's view of Mark Lee. He was one of the better players on the Packers' defensive unit during he time he played. He was also a respected team leader. I remember coach Bart Starr having him as a guest on his weekly show.

You may be right. Mark Lee did have very good statistical years in 1981 & 1986, although nearly half of his career interception total came in those two years alone. I think that was where my dad and I had problems. He appeared to have the talent to be a shutdown corner but for most of his career he was merely average. It was 20+ years ago so my memory may be a bit fuzzy, but I don't remember too many QB's being afraid to throw in his direction. I also remember numerous times where he was in perfect position to make an INT but dropped the ball. After your response I looked back on his career stats. I was actually surprised by his totals in 1981 and 1986 but the fact that he recorded 2 or less interceptions in 7 of his 12 years in the NFL supports my dad's "Stone Hands" assertion.

He was certainly not a bust but I remember being frustrated, along with my dad, at his inability to make what appeared to be easy INTs.

[StPaulPackFan]

As for stinking it up, one name sticks with me from my childhood: Mark Lee. From what I remember, he was always in position to make interceptions, but he couldn't catch a cold. I remember my dad calling him Mark "Hands of Stone" Lee. In reality he probably wasn't as bad as I remember but my those memories of my dad yelling at him through the TV are priceless.

I don't agree with your Dad's view of Mark Lee. He was one of the better players on the Packers' defensive unit during he time he played. He was also a respected team leader. I remember coach Bart Starr having him as a guest on his weekly show.

He was the one with the shaved head correct? I have his rookie card. :lol:

Speaking of cards...anyone want a few sheets of Packer trading cards from the 80s to add to the kids collection?

I'm pretty sure you're thinking of #37 Mark Murphy. He was a darn good hitter.

[Freak Out]

As for stinking it up, one name sticks with me from my childhood: Mark Lee. From what I remember, he was always in position to make interceptions, but he couldn't catch a cold. I remember my dad calling him Mark "Hands of Stone" Lee. In reality he probably wasn't as bad as I remember but my those memories of my dad yelling at him through the TV are priceless.

I don't agree with your Dad's view of Mark Lee. He was one of the better players on the Packers' defensive unit during he time he played. He was also a respected team leader. I remember coach Bart Starr having him as a guest on his weekly show.

He was the one with the shaved head correct? I have his rookie card. :lol:

Speaking of cards...anyone want a few sheets of Packer trading cards from the 80s to add to the kids collection?

I'm pretty sure you're thinking of #37 Mark Murphy. He was a darn good hitter.

That's the guy.

[Maxie the Taxi]

This is a great thread. There are so many at so many positions, but probably my biggest favorite/bust [outside of Abdul Hodge...I really wanted him to be a stud] was at the QB position. We drafted so many number one guys who had the rep in college but just never did much if anything in GB.

Randy Duncan

Don Horn

Jerry Tagge

Rich Campbell

All were supposed to be NFL phenoms and Packer "saviors."

And then there were my favorite hopeful longshots that never panned out by making it big:

David Whitehurst

Duke Carlisle

Dennis Claridge

Randy Wright

Frank Patrick (Always reminded me of Fred Munster playing QB)

And last but not least of these QB heartbreakers/disappointments: John Hadl (ouch!)

[sheepshead]

wait a minute, you thought Randy Wright was going to be great and he let you down?

[Maxie the Taxi]

wait a minute, you thought Randy Wright was going to be great and he let you down?

Hopin' he'd be another longshot Bart Starr. As I recall he wasn't all that bad. Just no arm.

[retailguy]

wait a minute, you thought Randy Wright was going to be great and he let you down?

Hopin' he'd be another longshot Bart Starr. As I recall he wasn't all that bad. Just no arm.

Randy Wright was a poor mans Trent Dilfer, before being Trent Dilfer was cool. I went to the Udub with him. Met him at a party once. Very cool guy. Too bad he didn't "make it". But he was better than a lot of the QB's through GB in the last 25 years.

[sheepshead]

There wasnt a long line of Wisconsin QBs shinning in the pro game up to that point. I would say the opposite for me, he was better than expected.

[Willard]

John Hadl
Dan Devine
Forest Gregg (the coach)

[Maxie the Taxi]

John Hadl
Dan Devine
Forest Gregg (the coach)

So true. And you can add Bart Starr (the coach) to that list. I don't think any GB coach came into the job with higher expectations and went out so disappointing. I'm Bart's biggest fan as a player. I'd rank him as in the top QB's of all time. But as a coach he sucked.

[Maxie the Taxi]

There wasnt a long line of Wisconsin QBs shinning in the pro game up to that point. I would say the opposite for me, he was better than expected.

I thought Ron Vanderkelen would "make it." Can't remember what happened to him.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

John Hadl
Dan Devine
Forest Gregg (the coach)

So true. And you can add Bart Starr (the coach) to that list. I don't think any GB coach came into the job with higher expectations and went out so disappointing. I'm Bart's biggest fan as a player. I'd rank him as in the top QB's of all time. But as a coach he sucked.

As much as he sucked, i think Starr was just the symptom of the real problem...the Packer org sucked.

Their drafting policy, their salaries for players, etc.

I don't remember when it was exactly, but i recall that the pack in the mid or late 80s had like 50 mill in the bank, but wasn't spending it on players.

You can look at most businesses...and for sure in sports...that it all starts at the top.

Bucs improve the minute Culverhouse is gone...and they start spending

Bills improve when Ralph Wilson finally realizes that you gotta pay players...think about all the great Bill players he let go.

Lions...the fords are the worst owners in the NFL.

[Maxie the Taxi]

John Hadl
Dan Devine
Forest Gregg (the coach)

So true. And you can add Bart Starr (the coach) to that list. I don't think any GB coach came into the job with higher expectations and went out so disappointing. I'm Bart's biggest fan as a player. I'd rank him as in the top QB's of all time. But as a coach he sucked.

As much as he sucked, i think Starr was just the symptom of the real problem...the Packer org sucked.

Their drafting policy, their salaries for players, etc.

I don't remember when it was exactly, but i recall that the pack in the mid or late 80s had like 50 mill in the bank, but wasn't spending it on players.

You can look at most businesses...and for sure in sports...that it all starts at the top.

Bucs improve the minute Culverhouse is gone...and they start spending

Bills improve when Ralph Wilson finally realizes that you gotta pay players...think about all the great Bill players he let go.

Lions...the fords are the worst owners in the NFL.

You're probably onto something there. I don't know to much about the Packer organ. then, but it always seemed that Starr was out on an island.

Of course, he was the GM too, so he bears a lot of the blame himself.

I don't think he could transfer that field "generalship" to team management. But I couldn't give you any specifics. It's just a general impression.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

John Hadl
Dan Devine
Forest Gregg (the coach)

So true. And you can add Bart Starr (the coach) to that list. I don't think any GB coach came into the job with higher expectations and went out so disappointing. I'm Bart's biggest fan as a player. I'd rank him as in the top QB's of all time. But as a coach he sucked.

As much as he sucked, i think Starr was just the symptom of the real problem...the Packer org sucked.

Their drafting policy, their salaries for players, etc.

I don't remember when it was exactly, but i recall that the pack in the mid or late 80s had like 50 mill in the bank, but wasn't spending it on players.

You can look at most businesses...and for sure in sports...that it all starts at the top.

Bucs improve the minute Culverhouse is gone...and they start spending

Bills improve when Ralph Wilson finally realizes that you gotta pay players...think about all the great Bill players he let go.

Lions...the fords are the worst owners in the NFL.

You're probably onto something there. I don't know to much about the Packer organ. then, but it always seemed that Starr was out on an island.

Of course, he was the GM too, so he bears a lot of the blame himself.

I don't think he could transfer that field "generalship" to team management. But I couldn't give you any specifics. It's just a general impression.

I'm not disagreeing. We all wanted him to succeed, but his teams just never really could get it together.

GM: You are right, but again, i think he had to listen to upper management about who to draft. Not saying he would have done fine if left alone.

But, the org and it's philosophy sucked. Sucked so bad that they lost players to the CFL...say hello to Bruce Clark.

I just laugh at the criticism of TT. My god, we had the 4th pick in the draft and we couldn't sign him...and he went to the Toronto Argonauts rather than play for us.

I distinctly recall that we would rather draft good guys than so so guys who could actually play football.

Let me put it to you this way...the packer org of then would have never drafted Favre and certainly wouldn't have traded for a known party boy.

[gex]

I was sure Darrell Thompson was going to be all world.

I thought he was on the verge of becoming great. I seem to recall that he had an upright style running position.

Leshon Johnson, wasn't he like the fastest guy on the team/league, but had vision problems and had laser surgery to repair it?

[woodbuck27]

Mike Hawkins

You gave me this name.

Justin Harrell. Maybe I'm wrong but doesn't he have all the time TT does? Is everyone 'really pleased' with AJ Hawk? Darren Colledge? I'll stop there.

[SkinBasket]

Mike Hawkins

You gave me this name.

Justin Harrell. Maybe I'm wrong but doesn't he have all the time TT does? Is everyone 'really pleased' with AJ Hawk? Darren Colledge? I'll stop there.

This is about players you rooted for and/or liked that failed or underperformed, not players you bitched about from the day they were drafted.

[SkinBasket]

Leshon Johnson, wasn't he like the fastest guy on the team/league, but had vision problems and had laser surgery to repair it?

I also heard he was borderline retarded. Needed a lot of help learning anything beyond "run left" or "run right."

[Gunakor]

Mike Hawkins

You gave me this name.

Justin Harrell. Maybe I'm wrong but doesn't he have all the time TT does? Is everyone 'really pleased' with AJ Hawk? Darren Colledge? I'll stop there.

Well, this isn't really what the thread is about, but I'll answer to your examples. Justin Harrell is what he is, a defensive tackle/end with all of the physical traits you'd look for in a defensive lineman - but can't stay healthy. The other two, yes I would say I'm pleased. Darren Colledge was our best OL last season. Better than either of our former bookend tackles were. Colledge isn't HOF material, but he's going to have an incredible career for the Packers.

AJ Hawk has done everything asked of him - I didn't think I had to go into this again. He hasn't made a ton of plays because he was never schemed into position to make plays. He was a block eater. That was his job and he did it very well. How many sacks is he supposed to have if he never is sent on a pass rush? How many fumbles is he supposed to cause/recover if he's only asked to move blockers out of the way for Barnett? I'd argue Hawk is very, VERY solid. Hopefully this new scheme will utilize the LB's as playmakers (they better, or the 3-4 will be a disaster) and when they are I expect Hawk to emerge as a premier ILB in the NFL.

So in answer to your question, yes, I am pleased. At least with the players you mentioned - aside from Harrell, who at this point still has a chance to be very good in this league as well (if he can get and stay healthy).

[Merlin]

Craig NallYou should ask Merlin about him. He wanted Nall over Rodgers. :lol:

I should bring up one of Mike Sherman's "greatest" moves as GM, R-Cal Truluck. Shermy go him for a 5th and a 6th rounder. That was one hell of a coup. :lol:

Um Dude, can you stop with the lies? I said Nall should have been given a chance to compete for the backup job that was handed to Rodgers site unseen.

Be CONSTRUCTIVE, not an idiot when you post.

[Merlin]

Ryan Longwell. I thought he would retire a Packer and I was a big fan of him until he never gave the Packers a chance to counter the Vikings offer. Then of course his unforgettable description of what it was like to live in Green Bay. He turned out to be a pretty selfish guy.

Javon Walker, I thought he had the real potential but he turned out to be a turd too.

Older Players: Darrell Thompson, Mike McKenzie(not that old I guess), Bill Schroeder, Chuck Cecil.

[Scott Campbell]

I'll stop there.


Sure you will.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Craig NallYou should ask Merlin about him. He wanted Nall over Rodgers. :lol:

I should bring up one of Mike Sherman's "greatest" moves as GM, R-Cal Truluck. Shermy go him for a 5th and a 6th rounder. That was one hell of a coup. :lol:

Um Dude, can you stop with the lies? I said Nall should have been given a chance to compete for the backup job that was handed to Rodgers site unseen.

Be CONSTRUCTIVE, not an idiot when you post.

He was given a chance. He sucks, like most of your posts.

I know, we should still bring back Dave Rayner.

[cpk1994]

Craig NallYou should ask Merlin about him. He wanted Nall over Rodgers. :lol:

I should bring up one of Mike Sherman's "greatest" moves as GM, R-Cal Truluck. Shermy go him for a 5th and a 6th rounder. That was one hell of a coup. :lol:

Um Dude, can you stop with the lies? I said Nall should have been given a chance to compete for the backup job that was handed to Rodgers site unseen.

Be CONSTRUCTIVE, not an idiot when you post.

He was given a chance. He sucks, like most of your posts.

I know, we should still bring back Dave Rayner.I forgot about that one. I'm gald M3 stuck with Crosby.

[SnakeLH2006]

Snake is a huge FSU fan. Really really wanted TBuck to be the real deal. Still liked his 5'8" ass as he carved out a career....just made Ron Wolf look like a punk not drafting David Klingler. LOL LOL LOL.

[Southoftheborder]

One for me was Antonio Chatman. I saw him play in the Arena league the season before the Packers picked him up. He was unbelievable that game. I believe he had 4 TD catches and 2 kick returns for touchdowns. Something like 280 all purpose yards on a 50 yard field. He was quick and illusive.

I guess he was just too small for the NFL and the quickness he had in the AFL didn't measure up to the big leagues.

[MJZiggy]

Add my latest boyfriend...

[hoosier]

Add my latest boyfriend...

Doh. Did you cut him?

[MJZiggy]

He's trying to force his release.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

He's trying to force his release.

To bad you can't threaten to send him to the Lions if he doesn't shape up!

[hoosier]

He's trying to force his release.

What's his cap number?

[falco]

One for me was Antonio Chatman. I saw him play in the Arena league the season before the Packers picked him up. He was unbelievable that game. I believe he had 4 TD catches and 2 kick returns for touchdowns. Something like 280 all purpose yards on a 50 yard field. He was quick and illusive.

I guess he was just too small for the NFL and the quickness he had in the AFL didn't measure up to the big leagues.

I don't know, isn't he still playing for Cincy? Certainly has had staying power.

[MJZiggy]

He's trying to force his release.

What's his cap number?

I can afford the cap hit, I just hate to lose a talented player...

[hoosier]

He's trying to force his release.

What's his cap number?

I can afford the cap hit, I just hate to lose a talented player...


If you cut him you'll be sorry in the short run, but he'll probably end up suffering more in the long run. If you don't cut him, he'll probably still go TO on you eventually and to make things worse, you'll lose the small pleasure of seeing him come back just when you've finally forgotten about him.

Of course I could be wrong. Sorry to hear your pick busted. :(

[MJZiggy]

You're probably right. Thanks for the thoughts. Guess I just need to see what free agents are out there!

[Iron Mike]

You're probably right. Thanks for the thoughts. Guess I just need to see what free agents are out there!

The screen door slams, Mary's dress sways........ 8-)

Annnnnnnnd back on topic......Anthony Dilweg. :P

[Southoftheborder]

One for me was Antonio Chatman. I saw him play in the Arena league the season before the Packers picked him up. He was unbelievable that game. I believe he had 4 TD catches and 2 kick returns for touchdowns. Something like 280 all purpose yards on a 50 yard field. He was quick and illusive.

I guess he was just too small for the NFL and the quickness he had in the AFL didn't measure up to the big leagues.

I don't know, isn't he still playing for Cincy? Certainly has had staying power.

They had to pull him off the field last year in a pretty bad collision.

My point was that I thought he was going to be good, not servicable.

[MJZiggy]

You're probably right. Thanks for the thoughts. Guess I just need to see what free agents are out there!

The screen door slams, Mary's dress sways........ 8-)

Annnnnnnnd back on topic......Anthony Dilweg. :P

Maybe I should be thinking about the kind of guy that'd send me love songs... :idea:

[woodbuck27]

Mike Hawkins

You gave me this name.

Justin Harrell. Maybe I'm wrong but doesn't he have all the time TT does? Is everyone 'really pleased' with AJ Hawk? Darren Colledge? I'll stop there.

This is about players you rooted for and/or liked that failed or underperformed, not players you bitched about from the day they were drafted.

Hey. Find one post where I bitch about any of the aforementioned players. You won't find one.

I just hoped one of these three high draft picks would turn out to be Pro Bowl material Skinbasket. So to date I am a tad disappointed in their contribution to the Packers. I hope for more in a first or second round pick not A. Carroll performances and not saying any of these Packers could be as poor a pick as A C.

[woodbuck27]

Mike Hawkins

You gave me this name.

Justin Harrell. Maybe I'm wrong but doesn't he have all the time TT does? Is everyone 'really pleased' with AJ Hawk? Darren Colledge? I'll stop there.

Well, this isn't really what the thread is about, but I'll answer to your examples. Justin Harrell is what he is, a defensive tackle/end with all of the physical traits you'd look for in a defensive lineman - but can't stay healthy. The other two, yes I would say I'm pleased. Darren Colledge was our best OL last season. Better than either of our former bookend tackles were. Colledge isn't HOF material, but he's going to have an incredible career for the Packers.

AJ Hawk has done everything asked of him - I didn't think I had to go into this again. He hasn't made a ton of plays because he was never schemed into position to make plays. He was a block eater. That was his job and he did it very well. How many sacks is he supposed to have if he never is sent on a pass rush? How many fumbles is he supposed to cause/recover if he's only asked to move blockers out of the way for Barnett? I'd argue Hawk is very, VERY solid. Hopefully this new scheme will utilize the LB's as playmakers (they better, or the 3-4 will be a disaster) and when they are I expect Hawk to emerge as a premier ILB in the NFL.

So in answer to your question, yes, I am pleased. At least with the players you mentioned - aside from Harrell, who at this point still has a chance to be very good in this league as well (if he can get and stay healthy).

Nice response Gunakor.

[Iron Mike]

You're probably right. Thanks for the thoughts. Guess I just need to see what free agents are out there!

The screen door slams, Mary's dress sways........ 8-)


Maybe I should be thinking about the kind of guy that'd send me love songs... :idea:

Like so? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrPvAFfUHqs)


Back on topic, Seth Joyner.

[K-town]

Hardy (Hardly) Nickerson

[Patler]

Rich Moore.
He was supposed to be one of the players the '60s Championship teams would be rebuilt around. You can pick a whole roster full of players in the late '60s and early '70s who were disappointments in that regard.

[Fritz]

How true that is. I think the "gold dust twins" fall into that category as well.

The Packer drafs of the late sixties were not of the quality of earlier drafts. Did Lombardi gain more control over the draft?

[Patler]

How true that is. I think the "gold dust twins" fall into that category as well.

The Packer drafs of the late sixties were not of the quality of earlier drafts. Did Lombardi gain more control over the draft?

Anderson and Grabowski were certainly not the reincarnations of Taylor and Hornung, but I thought Anderson had a relatively solid, if unspectacular career. Grabowski looked to be what was expected from him, but just couldn't stay healthy. A couple knee injuries, and in those days that was pretty much the end of your career once they sliced your knee completely open from top to bottom of the joint. I suppose they were disappointments from what some expected, but they weren't bums. But expectations were pretty high.

I was disappointed by Brockington. Three solid years, then pretty much nothing. He became a very timid runner, which was strange for the way he started out.

I think a problem the Packers and everyone had maintaining dynasties was roster size. In those days it was 40. It was hard to dump the old stars and work in young talent over a prolonged period. The Packers did it once from the early '60s to the last championship, but the next one didn't go so smoothly.

Lombardi left after the 1968 season, and I don't think was involved in the 1969 draft. From then on there were some questionable picks, although Lombardi himself missed on a few that could have made a big difference into the '70s.